Question:

thats why and the only reason why. oh that doctor just messed with the another stupid mental patient. ohhhh revenge will be so sweet. i know im no angel, i get a kick out of a good revenge. so sue me.

Sweet angel, revenge serves no positive purpose. Rest well in the fact that you have isolated your problem and have the right meds for the sleepy times. I have had a taste of serious sleeping troubles since I got out of the hospital, it’s deplorable. I plan on bitching a lot come Monday and the doktors shingle is out. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.mhsource.com/expert/exp1082800a.html thanks for the info…… actually my injuries were all on the -left- side…. and it was not what -caused- my bp or sz, since they wre genetically determined and can be seen in family members….. but it certainly did help to -manifest- untold stress disorders, personality changes, and other problems, especially as the second neurologist said, in combination with everything else that happened in my life. he told me, usually people just have one or two stresses like that. he said its like lightning hitting twice. he said ive been hit by lightning very many times. :_)}{}  that increses the damage in an almost exponential way. but thanks…. my main problems now are stress disorders related to ptsd, which the accident certainly -contributed- to, but is only one of the stressors through which i have come .

You’re welcome, I did not know what side your injuries were on.  I know of people who have suffered insults to their left temporal lobes and that set bipolar into motion or made it worse. as of now, im feeling damn fit, after finally being given treatment for the sleeping disorder. now that i can finally rest, everything is different.

Glad to hear it.  I was glad that when I went on an AP it put me on a regular sleep wake cycle by taking it at the same time every night. before, literally my brain was not ever going into deep sleep wave patterns. it just never did that. the problem i had was in the section of my brain that control waking and sleeping like the on off switch to a computer.

That is torture. the stupid gp i just told off, STILL thinks that i have NO residual neurological symptoms from that extreme and untreated traumatic brain injury, even after 3 specialists said different. what a fool.

Yes you have to shop around a lot. thats why and the only reason why. oh that doctor just messed with the another stupid mental patient. ohhhh revenge will be so sweet. i know im no angel, i get a kick out of a good revenge. so sue me. its just a matter of time now.

Revenge is a dish that is best served cold.  Do you have his home address?  If not a quick trip to your county assessors office should provide you with that.  You’ll need it to serve him with court papers.

Response:

http://www.mhsource.com/expert/exp1082800a.html

thanks for the info…… actually my injuries were all on the -left- side…. and it was not what -caused- my bp or sz, since they wre genetically determined and can be seen in family members….. but it certainly did help to -manifest- untold stress disorders, personality changes, and other problems, especially as the second neurologist said, in combination with everything else that happened in my life. he told me, usually people just have one or two stresses like that. he said its like lightning hitting twice. he said ive been hit by lightning very many times. :_)}{}  that increses the damage in an almost exponential way. but thanks…. my main problems now are stress disorders related to ptsd, which the accident certainly -contributed- to, but is only one of the stressors through which i have come . the injury was on my -left- side, and the major ’sequelae’ as they call them, are a nasty sleep disorder thats finally responding to meds, and some cognitive slowdowns and emotional patterns that may respond eventually to the same treatment. the bp and sz only -manifested- due to the extreme and repetetive stressors of my life, and i believe are starting to come under some control, after 5 years of fiddling with meds. with the advent of getting proper sleep, my ability to heal and recover, is obviously healing and recovering. as of now, im feeling damn fit, after finally being given treatment for the sleeping disorder. now that i can finally rest, everything is different. before, literally my brain was not ever going into deep sleep wave patterns. it just never did that. the problem i had was in the section of my brain that control waking and sleeping like the on off switch to a computer. my brain was not ’shutting down properly’.  :-)} so i literally went for just about 15 years without any restful sleep, unconscious for large parts of the day, and yet still so exhausted that i could not move, stand,  or think. this is why im a little peeved at the dr since 3 months after the sleep medicines were FINALLY given me, i feel like a million times better. the stupid gp i just told off, STILL thinks that i have NO residual neurological symptoms from that extreme and untreated traumatic brain injury, even after 3 specialists said different. what a fool. i know what i feel, i know what my psychiatrist, two neurologists, a nurse practitioner, and my very own parents who are both medical professionals, say this guy is full of grade a SHIT. i just cant believe i wasted 4 years of my life listening to him. the only reason im so bouncy rijght now is that im finally getting good, today from being canned by my doctor. usually that would have been a paralysing setback. now it just makes me more pissed off. thats why and the only reason why. oh that doctor just messed with the another stupid mental patient. ohhhh revenge will be so sweet. i know im no angel, i get a kick out of a good revenge. so sue me. anyway, im still tired and a little under the weather, but still fightin mad and well rested. that alone proves this medicine was needed in my brain, and my other doctor sucks donkey  tails. its just a matter of time now. — "it is  so easy to return to our spirit world from where we came.  life is not easy. but life is not nearly so hard when we honor the self…."

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Question:

If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya

Response:

If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya

What about it would you like to know?  Severe Traumatic Brain injury (either from a blow or a fever) can cause ADHD like symptoms that can be treated in a manner similar to ADHD. — Nessa — If nothing ever sticks to TEFLON, how do they make TEFLON stick to the pan? www.bestpages.com/nessa

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Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events.

Mark, I can remember the night my brother was born.  I was 3 1/2.  It was nothing that was told to me since everyone but my aunt who was with me and never talked to me about it due to an estrangement for many many years told me I couldn’t possibly remember that.  After my aunt confirmed my recall, the family admitted it must be a true memory. Both Slugboy and his brother remember nursing.  Since older brother was about 4 1/4 when he was weaned that seems reasonable to me but Slugboy was weaned around age 3. One day shortly after I moved into my house I was riding in the car with my parents in the front and I was in the back with the kids. Slugboy all 4 years of him turns to me sweetly and in the most delightful voice asks:  "mommy do you remember when we lived in the ‘ba-bart-ment’ and I sucked at your breast?   I thought poor POP-POP was gonna drive right off the road… although he admits he can’t recall when mommy and daddy ever lived together… sometimes I think it’s better that way…. — Nessa — If nothing ever sticks to TEFLON, how do they make TEFLON stick to the pan? www.bestpages.com/nessa

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I was shaken as a young child 3-6 years old maybe 3 or 4 times that can remember. Two of them vividly.  They left me foggy and with a dull ache.

Tanya, When experts are talking about TBI they tend to mean things like coma (my husband has a TBI caused from a car accident and the subsequent 3 day coma or severe head injury. I had a fever as a baby I ran 106 fever for 3 days and my parents were told I was not going to survive.  What happened was that my ADD became ADHD due to injury as well as the temporal lobe mood disorder and the chronic chemical imbalances.   What other symptoms to you have?   http://www.mindbraindoctor.com/ If you email him tell him Nessa sent you to his site. Is the website of one of the best neuropsychiatrists I know.  He specializes in TBI and mild head injury as well as ADHD (which he clearly states he feels is often misdiagnoised. — Nessa — If nothing ever sticks to TEFLON, how do they make TEFLON stick to the pan? www.bestpages.com/nessa

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I was curious to know if the course of the injury was the same as the disorder uh….if it at some point the effect of the injury would change with age or if other symptoms might occurr, if it were in fact possible acquire attention deficits by being shaken. Things are difficult for me right now.

My understanding is that people with TBI (like my DH) will get worse with age.  Sometimes they are very resistant to meds.  In fact DH only responds to Dexoxyn which happily they will start making shortly. I don’t think that you can aquire attention deficits by being shaken. ADHD would have to be something that is basically from birth but the symptoms would have to be noticed before the age of 7. Aquired Attention Deficit Syndrome would occur from an injury. You say things are difficult right now and that you are 30.  Things with my parents were horrid when I was 30 and then again at 35.  As I got healthy, my relationship with my parents changed a lot and in some ways it got better but in other ways it got worse.   Unfortunately I will never know what might have been with my mom.  She died 5 years ago this month. Have things suddenly gotten worse?  Have their been any changes recently? Environment, work, home, hormones, stress, school, kids, pets, money… all of those things can cause problems to seem worse to actually get worse. feel free to email me if you don’t want to discuss it in public.  I  can tell you are suffering and I would like to be able to help with understanding and support if not the right answers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya What about it would you like to know?  Severe Traumatic Brain injury (either from a blow or a fever) can cause ADHD like symptoms that can be treated in a manner similar to ADHD. — Nessa — If nothing ever sticks to TEFLON, how do they make TEFLON stick to the pan? www.bestpages.com/nessa

– Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

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Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events.

I understand what you mean here, and agree with it, but is it possible to have flashes of memories from a young age?  I had a flash of a memory, of a literal rag top car.  A small, sportscar type convertible with a patched together rag top.  Sitting in the driveway of our house in Detroit.  We moved from that house when I was 4.  I vividly remembered the car, and described it to my dad, who at first didn’t remember it at all, then recalled his cousin coming down from Marine City in his old Corvette….and it had a rag top like I described. I don’t have a good memory of my childhood in general, too many things that should be forgotten there. — Ann

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If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya

Attentional dysfunction is one of the hallmarks of traumatic brain injury.  Unless there was also attentional dysfunction as a child, this is not ADHD. — "I’ll remind you that men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things; good people do good things.  But, it takes religion to make a good person do something really bad."                     –Jill Tarter, member of SETI http://members.mint.net/mdmpsyd for e-mail replies, remove the obvious

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I was shaken as a young child 3-6 years old maybe 3 or 4 times that can remember. Two of them vividly.  They left me foggy and with a dull ache. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya Attentional dysfunction is one of the hallmarks of traumatic brain injury.  Unless there was also attentional dysfunction as a child, this is not ADHD. — "I’ll remind you that men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things; good people do good things.  But, it takes religion to make a good person do something really bad."                     –Jill Tarter, member of SETI http://members.mint.net/mdmpsyd for e-mail replies, remove the obvious

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I was shaken as a young child 3-6 years old maybe 3 or 4 times that can remember. Two of them vividly.  They left me foggy and with a dull ache.

Brain trauma would be possible but not exceptionally probable.  In shaken baby syndrom you get damage to the brain stem.  That regulates breathing, heart rate, etc. and would be very unlikely to be survived.  I wouldn’t expect ADHD to result.  At that age there’s still cortical plasticity (healthy parts of the brain take over the functions of the damaged areas). Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya Attentional dysfunction is one of the hallmarks of traumatic brain injury.  Unless there was also attentional dysfunction as a child, this is not ADHD. — "I’ll remind you that men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things; good people do good things.  But, it takes religion to make a good person do something really bad."                     –Jill Tarter, member of SETI http://members.mint.net/mdmpsyd for e-mail replies, remove the obvious

– "I’ll remind you that men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.  Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things; good people do good things.  But, it takes religion to make a good person do something really bad."                     –Jill Tarter, member of SETI http://members.mint.net/mdmpsyd

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wow, didn’t know that about age and memories hubby is a M.Ed Psy- says you’re right. Although I do remember before age six – nursery school age, maybe….  I was abused, mostly verbally sometimes physically, as a child.  I’m 30 and since I haven’t had relationship with my parents for for nearly 10 yrs, trying to *put the pieces together* can be difficult. Thanks for answering my post. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was shaken as a young child 3-6 years old maybe 3 or 4 times that can remember. Two of them vividly.  They left me foggy and with a dull ache. Brain trauma would be possible but not exceptionally probable.  In shaken baby syndrom you get damage to the brain stem.  That regulates breathing, heart rate, etc. and would be very unlikely to be survived.  I wouldn’t expect ADHD to result.  At that age there’s still cortical plasticity (healthy parts of the brain take over the functions of the damaged areas). Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events. If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya Attentional dysfunction is one of the hallmarks of traumatic brain injury.  Unless there was also attentional dysfunction as a child, this is not ADHD. — "I’ll remind you that men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things; good people do good things.  But, it takes religion to make a good person do something really bad."                     –Jill Tarter, member of SETI http://members.mint.net/mdmpsyd for e-mail replies, remove the obvious — "I’ll remind you that men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.  Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things; good people do good things.  But, it takes religion to make a good person do something really bad."                     –Jill Tarter, member of SETI http://members.mint.net/mdmpsyd

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[...] Boy, Christopher, different issues, but you’re childhood sounds Been there too?

Oh, yea.  My parents were a trip.  They did, however, stay married; don’t know why, but in the end it was a good thing, my mother cared lovingly for my father in his last months. Being woken up in the middle of the night many times, with them brawling downstairs, did a number on my little head.  Never mind the numerous characters that came and went throughout our lives.  Never a dull moment (but how I prayed for dull moments). — Ann

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And my 8 yo remembers some AMAZING things from that time period.

I noticed when my children were younger how amazing their memories were.  That seems to die down, though, I think because as they get more and more involved in both their school education and learning about life in general, things get shoved back into corners and crevices to make room for new experiences.  The memories are there, but get put into other, less accessible parts of the brain.  Suddenly something triggers the memory, and it flashes back into the forefront for a moment.  At least that’s how it seems to work around here. — Ann

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Here’s another  2 memories  I can actually put a year on: 1963. I was three years old.  My mom is exactly 30 years older than me. She had a hysterectomy due to a massive fibroid. When she told me that she had to go to the hospital to have her uterus removed,of course I asked her what a uterus was. She explained it was part of her "baby-making equipment" and that she had a big lump on it. I played with some boys who lived in the house next door whom I simply referred to as "the three little boys", and I remember going to their house and telling their mom that my mom was going to have her baby-making equipment removed.  I also remember the day I went over to play with my mother, and I could tell the boys’ mom had been crying. I was escorted out of the room along with the brothers while the two women had a private talk.  Several days later the family quickly and unceremoniously vacated the house and we never saw nor heard from them again. It so happened that  the father was in to  deep you -know- what from a gambling debt. The end. Oh,and back to baby-making equipment;on the way home from the hospital , my Dad , brother ,sister and I sprung the news to my mother that in her absence, we had adopted an almost full-grown mutt at the animal shelter . She was less than thrilled ,having never  been a pet lover….She always says that she prefers nature to be outdoors… I  also remember when she showed me her stitches. So  although this thread no longer seems to be about head trauma causing ADD, it does seem to be about ADD and some of life’s earlier traumas,and memories. I have 2 questions: 1. If so many of us have such detailed, early memories, why  is it said that ADDers are not ‘detail-oriented’? 2.  I wonder if we have more of these early memories than some other non-ADD ers? Any thoughts?  Judy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this has gotten completely off topic,and the worms are now crawling all over the floor  with this post . However , I can’t resist.   I  have *many* flashes of memories from as early as age two when I  hobbled around with a broken leg . I fell from a slide in the backyard. I remember the fear walking downstairs after the cast was removed and the leg was weakened. Don’t remember the actual incident (surely repressed), but I remember the drive to the hospital after I fell on my metal sand shovel and ran it into the roof of my mouth (yup, metal — this was 1966).  I was 18 mos. Also remember falling down the cellar steps holding my sock monkey and cutting ear on washing machine.  Was under three. One more of being put back in the car on the road to grandma’s.  Had to be VERY young, since I *remember* remembering this as a young child.  For some reason it got mixed up with me and I used to relate it to being born and tell everyone I could remember *being borned.*  From this perspective, it was probably during potty training (*STOP THE CAR!*). A few other flashes (and I wonder how many are reinforced by photos — I mean, when even a young child gets visual reinforcement of a recent event and the photo can recall all the sensory input of it, if it doesn’t imprint more strongly?  Many of those early ones seem to be related to the photo activities) that are not so traumatic, but they are hazy. And my 8 yo remembers some AMAZING things from that time period. smoocher

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I am told there was an ugly scene with one of his girlfriends, but I don’t remember a thing about it.

Boy, Christopher, different issues, but you’re childhood sounds — Ann

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I know this has gotten completely off topic,and the worms are now crawling all over the floor  with this post . However , I can’t resist.   I  have *many* flashes of memories from as early as age two when I  hobbled around with a broken leg . I fell from a slide in the backyard. I remember the fear walking downstairs after the cast was removed and the leg was weakened.

Don’t remember the actual incident (surely repressed), but I remember the drive to the hospital after I fell on my metal sand shovel and ran it into the roof of my mouth (yup, metal — this was 1966).  I was 18 mos. Also remember falling down the cellar steps holding my sock monkey and cutting ear on washing machine.  Was under three. One more of being put back in the car on the road to grandma’s.  Had to be VERY young, since I *remember* remembering this as a young child.  For some reason it got mixed up with me and I used to relate it to being born and tell everyone I could remember *being borned.*  From this perspective, it was probably during potty training (*STOP THE CAR!*). A few other flashes (and I wonder how many are reinforced by photos — I mean, when even a young child gets visual reinforcement of a recent event and the photo can recall all the sensory input of it, if it doesn’t imprint more strongly?  Many of those early ones seem to be related to the photo activities) that are not so traumatic, but they are hazy. And my 8 yo remembers some AMAZING things from that time period. smoocher

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[...] Boy, Christopher, different issues, but you’re childhood sounds

Been there too? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Ann

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped LOL… sitting on the foot of Mom’s bed with my little sister on Saturday mornings, watching "The Monkeys," "The Jackson 5," and "The Osmond Brothers."  Climbing onto the top of Mom’s orange car with the white racing stripe with the twins from next door and Mom sticking her head out the apartment window to yell down at us to get off the roof of her car. Walking across the street to the playground with my little sister, playing on the merrygoround, yelling at the older kids to stop it because my sister was getting sick, then walking home with her, yelling over my shoulder that I was going to tell on them for making her sick. <snipped There is another very confused set of memories about how my father would yell at my younger brother. I remember horrible confusion because it made me angry how he hurt my brother. But he would say things like ‘why are you are so stupid, why can’t you act like your older brother’ (me). This was terrible, because I never thought my brother was stupid, but I liked being called smart, and I certainly didn’t want to provoke my father’s anger the way my brother did, but I didn’t think it was fair either.  While I was spared the direct abuse that my brother (and mother) got, it was indirectly powerful. I also remember being told something about my parents not living together anymore when I was five.

<snipped I remember the exact layout of our apartment in Belvedeere.  The living room was in the center of the apartment.  All the other rooms, except the "porch" opened off this room.  We were on the 2nd floor of a quadplex, on the left-hand side of the landing (if you were walking up the stairs from the ground floor).  As you walked in the door from the landing, there were two bedrooms on the left, my parents and the one my sister and I shared.  On the right was the kitchen/dining area and a 3rd bedroom, where my father’s niece, who babysat for us, stayed.  She had moved from Kentucky to live with us there. The living room ran the entire length of the apartment.  There were two windows at the end of the living room, with a phone table and phone between them.  My father’s recliner was at other end of the living room, close to the entry door and the door to my parents’ bedroom.  There was a tan couch along the wall between their bedroom door and the door to the bedroom my sister and I shared.  I can remember putting a pillow on the floor in front of the couch and using the couch to balance myself as I tried standing on my head. I can remember my parents fighting, him knocking her across the living room, her getting up and getting in his face, never backing down.  I can also remember the day she took my sister and me away from there.  I remember we were sitting on his recliner, putting on our boots (the shiny red ones with the zippers up the sides).  I remember looking up to see my cousin standing at the phone table by the windows.  I remember her picking up the phone, looking out the window, and putting the phone back down. Mom never talked about that day, but when I was in my early twenties I was telling her about some of the things I remember.  I mentioned remembering Darlene picking up the phone, looking out the window, and putting the phone back down.  Mom got this funny look on her face and told me a bit more about that day.  It seems that Darlene was going to call my father at work to tell him what was going on.  Mom told Darlene that she could call after we left, but if she tried to call while we were still there, Mom would knock her out the window.  My little mystery about what Darlene was doing was solved. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events.

Since the can has been stirred, I’ll respond.  In general you may be right, but a few memories of youth can survive.  I personally vividly remember a few experiences from when I was 3, but these are just short flashes.  I actually have a lot of memories from when I was 4 and 5 (I can even distinguish which year they are from because my parents moved shortly after I turned 5 so memories of the old house are 4, memories of the new house are 5)  And about 5-6 years old and on, my memories are all about the same quality. — – Todd Rogers "I’ve been asked what I mean by word of honor.  I will tell you.  Place me behind prison walls – walls of stone ever so high, ever so thick, reaching ever so far into the ground – there is a possibility that in some way or another I may escape; but stand me on the floor and draw a chalk line around me and have me give my word of honor never to cross it.  Can I get out of the circle?  No.  Never!  I’d die first!" -Karl G. Maeser, Founder of Brigham Young University

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I know this has gotten completely off topic,and the worms are now crawling all over the floor  with this post . However , I can’t resist.   I  have *many* flashes of memories from as early as age two when I  hobbled around with a broken leg . I fell from a slide in the backyard. I remember the fear walking downstairs after the cast was removed and the leg was weakened. I have flashes of playing in my crib after waking from a nap.  Pop-songs playing when I was 3: "The Hanky Panky"and "I Wanna Hold Your Hand",in my friend,Valerie’s  mom’s Mustang car,  and the fast Food place we were going  to .  My Parents did’nt play Pop music in our house -only Classical or occasionally Folk.  I won’t bore you with more examples,but I could list quite a few.  Oddly enough, I remember very little of kindergarden through Fifth grade. Those were not happy times for me educationally at least, nor much better in my home -life. There was some  subtle emotional disfunction and psychological abuse. Perhaps my brain blocked out what was unpleasant in favor of what was either pleasant or at least novel;   for example, I remember gimping from the broken leg-I don’t remember getting the actual injury. Well, what can I say –is liking an argument just because you know you can back it up with trivial evidence a hallmark of ADD?  By the way, a moth landed on my minivan this morning and I had to chuckle…Its so fun to share inside jokes with people whom I’ve never met :) Judy "Did you ever fly a kite in bed? Did you ever walk with ten cats on your head?  Did you ever milk this kind of cow? Well, we can do it .We know how. If you never did,you should. These things are fun and fun is good." Dr. Suess

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events. Since the can has been stirred, I’ll respond.  In general you may be right, but a few memories of youth can survive.  I personally vividly remember a few experiences from when I was 3, but these are just short flashes.  I actually have a lot of memories from when I was 4 and 5 (I can even distinguish which year they are from because my parents moved shortly after I turned 5 so memories of the old house are 4, memories of the new house are 5)  And about 5-6 years old and on, my memories are all about the same quality. — – Todd Rogers "I’ve been asked what I mean by word of honor.  I will tell you.  Place me behind prison walls – walls of stone ever so high, ever so thick, reaching ever so far into the ground – there is a possibility that in some way or another I may escape; but stand me on the floor and draw a chalk line around me and have me give my word of honor never to cross it.  Can I get out of the circle?  No.  Never!  I’d die first!" -Karl G. Maeser, Founder of Brigham Young University

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events. Mark, I can remember the night my brother was born.  I was 3 1/2.  It was nothing that was told to me since everyone but my aunt who was with me and never talked to me about it due to an estrangement for many many years told me I couldn’t possibly remember that.  After my aunt confirmed my recall, the family admitted it must be a true memory.

My mom and dad were divorced when I was six months old. He never came around after that. Oddly enough, I do have a memory of him. I remember being little and digging in a drawer full of potholders. I pulled out one with an indians chiefs head on it. And he came over and took it away from me. That’s the only memory I have of him, and I didn’t think it was possible for me to remember something from when I was so young. Although, that’s my only memory of him since he died when I was fourteen and I never got to meet him. I always wondered if that had something to do with it. Dami

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this has gotten completely off topic,and the worms are now crawling all over the floor  with this post . However , I can’t resist.   I  have *many* flashes of memories from as early as age two when I  hobbled around with a broken leg . I fell from a slide in the backyard. I remember the fear walking downstairs after the cast was removed and the leg was weakened. I have flashes of playing in my crib after waking from a nap.  Pop-songs playing when I was 3: "The Hanky Panky"and "I Wanna Hold Your Hand",in my friend,Valerie’s  mom’s Mustang car,  and the fast Food place we were going  to .  My Parents did’nt play Pop music in our house -only Classical or occasionally Folk.  I won’t bore you with more examples,but I could list quite a few.

LOL… sitting on the foot of Mom’s bed with my little sister on Saturday mornings, watching "The Monkeys," "The Jackson 5," and "The Osmond Brothers."  Climbing onto the top of Mom’s orange car with the white racing stripe with the twins from next door and Mom sticking her head out the apartment window to yell down at us to get off the roof of her car. Walking across the street to the playground with my little sister, playing on the merrygoround, yelling at the older kids to stop it because my sister was getting sick, then walking home with her, yelling over my shoulder that I was going to tell on them for making her sick. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this has gotten completely off topic,and the worms are now crawling all over the floor  with this post . However , I can’t resist.   I  have *many* flashes of memories from as early as age two when I  hobbled around with a broken leg . I fell from a slide in the backyard. I remember the fear walking downstairs after the cast was removed and the leg was weakened. I have flashes of playing in my crib after waking from a nap.  Pop-songs playing when I was 3: "The Hanky Panky"and "I Wanna Hold Your Hand",in my friend,Valerie’s  mom’s Mustang car,  and the fast Food place we were going  to .  My Parents did’nt play Pop music in our house -only Classical or occasionally Folk.  I won’t bore you with more examples,but I could list quite a few. LOL… sitting on the foot of Mom’s bed with my little sister on Saturday mornings, watching "The Monkeys," "The Jackson 5," and "The Osmond Brothers."  Climbing onto the top of Mom’s orange car with the white racing stripe with the twins from next door and Mom sticking her head out the apartment window to yell down at us to get off the roof of her car. Walking across the street to the playground with my little sister, playing on the merrygoround, yelling at the older kids to stop it because my sister was getting sick, then walking home with her, yelling over my shoulder that I was going to tell on them for making her sick.

I remember going through the corridors in the basement of Mass General Hospital where my father was working as a resident in some sort of a laboratory. For some reason pukey institutional green walls stand out in that memory. He gave me a test tube with a teaspoon of mercury in it. We brought that home and from time to time mother would let us pour it into a plate and poke it to see how it moved around. (I would never let my children play with such an extremely dangerous chemical that way!!!) He gave himself insulin injections each morning, and I remember seeing that many times, while my parents were together. There is another very confused set of memories about how my father would yell at my younger brother. I remember horrible confusion because it made me angry how he hurt my brother. But he would say things like ‘why are you are so stupid, why can’t you act like your older brother’ (me). This was terrible, because I never thought my brother was stupid, but I liked being called smart, and I certainly didn’t want to provoke my father’s anger the way my brother did, but I didn’t think it was fair either.  While I was spared the direct abuse that my brother (and mother) got, it was indirectly powerful. I also remember being told something about my parents not living together anymore when I was five. Then I was told that I would visit my father once a week; I was happy, because that meant I would actually see him on a much more regular basis that I had ever been used to. I think I remember being annoyed that so many of these decisions about my life were made without anyone asking my opinion, but I am not sure about that memory. I would search his medical bag for interesting instruments. I learned how to inspect ear drums before I was 8, and how to clean wax out of deep inside the ear canal using a magnifying scope and probes (technically a surgical technique). Somewhat later, I remember going to his office almost every time he was on call. One time there was an emergency with a baby on Saturday night. Some woman brought her baby to the office. Normally, I had to wait in the waiting room and get bored to death, but this time he needed me to come into the examining room and hold the baby still, so he could get a blood sample while the mother was retching in the bathroom… I also remember a stack of magazines that he kept in his apartment when I was 7 or 8. They had interesting pictures that would unfold in the middle of each month’s issue… I am told there was an ugly scene with one of his girlfriends, but I don’t remember a thing about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

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I was curious to know if the course of the injury was the same as the disorder uh….if it at some point the effect of the injury would change with age or if other symptoms might occurr, if it were in fact possible acquire attention deficits by being shaken. Things are difficult for me right now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone has heard about this from a reputable source I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Tanya What about it would you like to know?  Severe Traumatic Brain injury (either from a blow or a fever) can cause ADHD like symptoms that can be treated in a manner similar to ADHD. — Nessa — If nothing ever sticks to TEFLON, how do they make TEFLON stick to the pan? www.bestpages.com/nessa

Response:

<snipped Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.

Sorry, but *I* remember things from age 3 and 4.  My mother didn’t know about the things I remember until I was grown, but when I asked her about what I remember, she verified it.  I can even remember the exact floorplan of the apartment where we lived at the time, the two sets of neighbors we had while living there, how to get to the neighborhood park, a trip we took to get a puppy, the location of the doghouse where the puppy lived in our back yard, riding my tricycle in the screened-in back porch, etc.  This was all during approximately a year and a half when we lived in Belvedeere (sp?), Illinois.  All the rest of my childhood we lived around my grandparents’ farm. My mother remembers things from when she was even younger than that. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

[...] Not wanting to stir up a can of worms but 3 years old is too young to be able to recall memories.  

I am quite sure I remember one image from preschool before I was 4, and another of the window of the bedroom in my Aunt’s house where I stayed when my brother was born. I was not quite 3 at that time. I think the latter is not actually from that time, but is a memory of returning to the room at a later date and finding it to be very familiar and meaningful. While I do not have a lot of childhood memories, I think two come from before I was 4. I also have some memories of my father, mother and myself in bed together. This must have been while I was 4 or 5, since they were divorced when I was 6. My brother also has memories of father at home, and he was only 3 or 4 when he left. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frontal lobes are not fully developed at that time and the data are unlikely to get stored much less retrieved later.  6 years is inside the window of possibility but it’s also hard to discriminate memories of events from memories of being told of the events.

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Question:

whatatrip wrote: > Reconceptualization of Behavior Therapy for > Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder from a > Learning and Neurochemical Perspective > By Fugen Neziroglu, PhD, and Curtis Hsia, MA

This article seems to have now been deleted from the Web – pity. Interesting. Kind regards, Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> whatatrip wrote: >> Reconceptualization of Behavior Therapy for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder >> from a Learning and Neurochemical Perspective >> By Fugen Neziroglu, PhD, and Curtis Hsia, MA >> Educational Objectives >> Describe the social learning, neurobiological, and >> biobehavioral theories for explaining the etiology and treatment of OCD

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25 years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e- mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

-I don’t think any are weak especially in the sense of dealing with this. I just thankfull for the faith and the medication that helps me face this. Did any of us bring it on ourselves even you? No I very seriously doubt it. The disorder don’t work that way. By the way the illness may indeed lie in the body as well. Many things bring this on and it’s usually an added combination of underlying undiagnosed problems addded to the stress of some life altering events. Those events don’t have to be bad ones they can mean a job promotion. Many persons actually get this when everything is going quite well for them. And others get it going through traumatic experiences or when the experience has passed and you let your defenses down it hits. It’s true sometimes life doesn’t look fair but nothing stays the same. Adversity will usually bring strenght and groth. That does not mean the origional problem will ever leave it means you adapt as best you can. A wise man named Paul knew this lesson and taught it. With all the bad days of this I would rather have the problem with the growth than have a perfect life and not know what I believe and how deep I believe it. I know theres better than this to come. But I also know till then we live in an imperfect world…John Before you buy.

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Don’t fret Staci!  We are humans that have encountered a slight roadblock in our lives.  We will get better, but it seems that we all have different ways of getting there. I myself find this group supportive and enlightening.  Sometimes just plain funny at times.  If you are feeling like it is taking you down, look at more of the OT humor stuff between posts.  :)J — "Just when you think life sucks, someone hands you a vacuum cleaner; it is at this time you start cleaning some house". :) J  Visit me at:  http://members.ync.net/jdgalvin/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25 years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e-mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25 years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e-mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

Hi Staci! Welcome to the group!  I’m so sorry the post got you down.  If you keep lurking, sometimes you’ll see some very successful posts too and off topic humor.  Give us a chance.  I don’t think you’ll be sorry!  Please take care of yourself. Hugs, Di

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Hi, David, I hear what you are saying loud and clear.  I can accept the bad days with the good days, what I have a hard time dealing with is the debilitation that anxiety has put on my life.  I can’t accept the fact that it does not allow me to live my life to its fullest.  Many things I would like to do but my entire day 24/7 is monitoring my body to see if I am up to the task at hand. I need  large dosages of confidence and bravery…..do they sell these at WalMart? smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Staci, You did nothing to get this condition.  It is biochemically based, and much of it is learned.  I don’t take meds either, though sometimes I think I might.  Fortunately for me therapy seems to work, though incredibly slowly.  Some people finally take meds, some don’t. I like to blame the anxiety for crappy days, but some days are just plain bad.  Makes me truly appreciate the good ones.  I learned from my Grandmother who passed away last year to appreciate the good days, and that’s what I’m doing….. Hang in there and we’re here if you’d like to chat…. David

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Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25 years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e-mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25 years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e-mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

I am sorry that you are so down from reading all our posts. Surprisingly, reading the posts here do not make me sad, in the sense that I will dry and be depressed, but sad knowing that others are going through what I am and we are all seatching for that one true cure. I hope that you will be able to find some inner strength to read the posts and be able to offer some of your suggestions and ideas for us to read. We all can exchange litte tidbits of information-you’d be surprised what we can learn from each other here. I know what you mean you are not "down" …It is amazing the small amount of people that post on this message board when in the Us alone that over 2 million have mental disorders….Imagine 2 million of us posting here???? We could never read all the messages!!!!!! I do hope that you had a nice weekend. I only goofed up my computer but it is working again. I just want to get rid of that annoying opening windows sound….argh!!! Julie Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Staci, You did nothing to get this condition.  It is biochemically based, and much of it is learned.  I don’t take meds either, though sometimes I think I might.  Fortunately for me therapy seems to work, though incredibly slowly.  Some people finally take meds, some don’t.   I like to blame the anxiety for crappy days, but some days are just plain bad.  Makes me truly appreciate the good ones.  I learned from my Grandmother who passed away last year to appreciate the good days, and that’s what I’m doing….. Hang in there and we’re here if you’d like to chat…. David

Response:

Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25

Some day you will try meds, get relief, and start believing in them. Then reading the posts at ASAP will not make you feel down. Chip years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e-mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Staci, Welcome to ASAP. I can understand your response to your first reading of our posts. Initially, reading of others’ symptoms and problems caused me to be more anxious and to imagine I had new symptoms. Rather than feeling "saddened and sickened", you may find that you will come to an acceptance of the condition and learn to see that, although you have anxiety, it is just a part of the wonderful person you are-I am sure there are many things to like about you. I used to long for the days before anxiety began changing my life and would say "I want to be like I was before". Now I realise that, having experienced anxiety I am less judgemental of others, more empathetic and I don’t take the good days for granted. Having experienced debilitating anxiety has helped to shape the way I approach  autistitc children at work-I am a far better and more insightful teacher than I ever thought I could be. I accept your refusal to take medication-I went for 12 years before I gave in. Hopefully you will never reach that low that I hit when I decided it was either medication or death. That was eight years ago and I never regret my decision to try medication with therapy to help deal with my anxiety. I found that the more open I was about my condition, the less ashamed I was-it seemed that no matter who I talked to, that person knew someone else who has an anxiety disorder. Life is good with the odd (fewer and fewer, it seems) crappy day thrown in. Don’t be so hard on yourself-you have not chosen to have this illness any more than a cancer patient chooses to have cancer. I don’t know why some people are more prone to anxiety disorders but I do know it is not reflective of a weak character. I believe there will some day be an effective treatment for all of us-until then we just try to carry on. Best wishes, Charley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all it saddens and sickens me reading all your posts. We are so strong but are so weak. I have had anxiety for 10 years. I often wonder what horrible thing I must have done to recieve this burden. and I laugh at myself knowing I have created this world for me. That the illness lies within my mind and not my body. I feel all your pain and my own. A sickly haze sets over the person I used to be. I worry all the time and get no relief. I do not take meds. I don’t believe in them. I am 25 years old and have suffered with this dread for 10 years. One day I will be better just like one day all of you will regain the ability to be "human" again. I hope all  our lives return to us soon. It is sad to think of how much time I waste doing nothing. We will get well, are minds will heal. Until they do this is the best I can do. Please e-mail if anyone would like to just talk or write or anything. Thank you Staci P.S. Please don’t think I am down. I am usually quite happy. I actually got down from reading all the posts here. We are our own little community. : )

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Question:

while i have no major traumatic incidents in my past, i keep being told, for different reasons, that i’m like a trauma survivor.

I have the same deal and the docs say it is from prolonged duress. In the next DSM there is a possibility of it being classified, there are papers. If it is, they’ll call it Prolonged Duress Stress Disorder. There is a tiny bit of info on the net but there is a growing body in the periodicals. PDSD has all the symptoms of PTSD except there is no traumatic event that can be identified. i think it’s kindof interesting.

I think it fucking sucks. Big time. I want neurofeedback therapy but I can’t afford it right now. I used to be like Joe Cool and now I’m Jumpin’ Jimmy.

Response:

Same with me . Makes me wonder, but…… I can’t remember. DG

Response:

while i have no major traumatic incidents in my past, i keep being told, for different reasons, that i’m like a trauma survivor. i think it’s kindof interesting.

i too have been fascinated by this — i’ve felt like a trauma survivor even before being consciously aware of my years of severe depression. (i ignored it until it was nearly too late.) over the years, nearly all of my close male friends have been vietnam vets, though they’re older than me. it’s an interesting and rewarding kinship despite the frightening roots that form part of that commonality. as i’ve found healing, i’ve found that other survivors also share this remarkable strength that defies our mutual fragility. in kinship, mike.      "I wonder about all the roads not taken and am moved to quote      Frost … but won’t. It is sad to be able only to mouth other      poets. I want someone to mouth me." –Sylvia Plath. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

Response:

while i have no major traumatic incidents in my past, i keep being told, for different reasons, that i’m like a trauma survivor. i think it’s kindof interesting.

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Question:

Squirts/Toejam/geraldine goldstein/johnny cochran/ojsimpsonfan wrote:

they continue to analize us and try to talk like doctors and move us with fancy word analogies, just get us the fucking new meds!!!! I couldn’t agree more with you, Squirts!! I have had FULL OCD days for over 25 years now! they suck, don’t they? TL

Response:

they continue to analize us and  try to talk like  doctors and move us with fancy word analogies,  just get us the fucking new meds!!!!

Response:

JMass11162 <jmass11…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:19991103080817.10771.00000454@ng-cl1.aol.com… > x-no-archive: yes > >From: "whatatrip" > >I have the advantage of not having "brain lock". I am not locked into any > >one point of view and can appreciate a variety of views of ocd > Roger,even if they came up with concrete evidence that ocd was a biological > disorder,you would still be shoving your propaganda down peoples throats,and > could you please lay off the parenting thing once again!!! >                        Joe

Sorry Joe, I can’t ignore the role of parents. Parents have so much of an influence on how our brains gets wired that to ignore that aspect of ocd is like ignoring the person throwing gasoline on a fire. BTW, I do believe ocd is, in part, a biological disorder, after all, aren’t we biological beings. If one only looks at the biological aspect, that is all they will see. We are so much more than our biology. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.net

Response:

Scott C. <cny…@borg.nospam.com> wrote in message

news:381FC247.6FA9@borg.nospam.com… > x-no-archive: yes > Roger, >    Don’t let your head swell too much.  I was at this presentation, the > speaker/author shares very few of your views.  I’m sure that if given > the opportunity you’d be flaming him as you have all other "experts". >                                        Later,   Scott

My head is not too swollen. I honestly wish they were right, it would make things so much simpler but that is not the way things usually work out and their research is again proving that it is not as simple as they/we would like to think. I know they don’t……….yet and many may never be able to. I have had some experience with experts, teachers, and other "professionals". As a child in school I learned the lessons so well that I often understood the material better than the teachers. The good teachers acknowledged this and got themselves more information. The bad teachers got all defensive and huffy. Some of the ocd experts fall into the latter group. I don’t claim to have the answers but I do have the questions that a good expert would acknowledge as valid. I would be praising them if they could back up what they are trying to sell. I have the advantage of not having "brain lock". I am not locked into any one point of view and can appreciate a variety of views of ocd. Most of the "experts" on ocd do have this advantage. This renders them not able to see the forest for the trees. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.net

Response:

> Nice new term, "Biopyschosocial Model", huh?

Woo. Makes me feel kind of important that I have something that could be caused by something else with such a long, complicated name. I guess that’s why I like to procrastinate.  It sounds important, too. Jill

Response:

DCO <li…@tough.com> wrote in message

news:kEoS3.244$oa2.7113@iad-read.news.verio.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thomas Luby <tel…@webtv.net> wrote: >  > Exerpts from Dr. Fred Penzels speech at an OCD work shop … > Other writings by Dr. Penzel can be found at his practice’s web site: > http://www.homestead.com/westsuffolkpsych/Articles.html > (The attribution of authors is confusing – *most* of the articles are > by Dr. Penzel.) > Touching on the same subject as Dr. Penzel, but in relation to > depression, is an article from the June 1998 issue of SCIENTIFIC > AMERICAN, "The Neurobiology of Depression": > http://www.sciam.com/1998/0698issue/0698nemeroff.html > After discussing brain biology, the author has this to say: >   "Neurobiologists do not yet know exactly how the genetic, monoamine >    and hormonal findings piece together, if indeed they always do. The >    discoveries nonetheless suggest a partial scenario for how people >    who endure traumatic childhoods become depressed later in life. I >    call this hypothesis the stress-diathesis model of mood disorders, >    in recognition of the interaction between experience (stress) and >    inborn predisposition (diathesis). >    The observation that depression runs in families means that certain >    genetic traits in the affected families somehow lower the threshold >    for depression. Conceivably, the genetic features directly or >    indirectly diminish monoamine levels in synapses or increase >    reactivity of the HPA axis to stress. The genetically determined >    threshold is not necessarily low enough to induce depression in the >    absence of serious stress but may then be pushed still lower by >    early, adverse life experiences. >    My colleagues and I propose that early abuse or neglect not only >    activates the stress response but induces persistently increased >    activity in CRF-containing neurons, which are known to be stress >    responsive and to be overactive in depressed people. If the >    hyperactivity in the neurons of children persisted through >    adulthood, these supersensitive cells would react vigorously >    even to mild stressors. This effect in people already innately >    predisposed to depression could then produce both the >    neuroendocrine and behavioral responses characteristic of the >    disorder." > Although pretty firmly in the biology camp myself regarding the origins > of OCD, I came away from the article with a greater appreciation of > whatatrip’s ideas.

Good for you. I stress the inclusion of the non biological factors because they have been almost totally ignored among the "experts" in the field of ocd. The current experts are not of the psychological/environmental school of thought so they really have very little appreciation of the role environment, development, and early learning play in the development of ocd. The mental healthy community is just a political as Washington DC is and the practitioners of mental health bring with them all their prejudices and beliefs. Because of this they have tossed out all the valuable information regarding ocd and are totally focused on the biological aspect. Of course there is a biological factor but they are finding out the role of biology, and genetics in particlar, has a limited role and much of the data they need will be found elsewhere. The current "crop" of mental health professionals, ocd wise, are riding the tide of "science" but they are really practicing pseudo science because of the way they interpret the data and come to the conclusions that they do. It is mind boggling how inept and negligent some of them are. Research into ocd is following in the footsteps of other disorders like depression and schizophrenia. I was just reading an article on schizophrenia and they are having to look at environmental causes because the genetic research is not yielding the kind of information that they hoped they would find. I believe that further down the road the view that genetics as the driving force will be replace with the view that genetics is just there waiting to be activated by the environment. This trend is already in motion and will be set further in motion as genetic research confirms this view. This will drastically change the way we look at mental disorders. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.net

Response:

Scott wrote:

PS- I follow the biogeneticpsychostreptruamasocialetc model myself… Scott, I think you win "longest" model name!!!  I think you should get some sort of research grant to explore this further. Hey, I know t’s BS but it sounds damn good! TL

Response:

Thomas Luby <tel…@webtv.net> wrote:

 > Exerpts from Dr. Fred Penzels speech at an OCD work shop … Other writings by Dr. Penzel can be found at his practice’s web site:         http://www.homestead.com/westsuffolkpsych/Articles.html (The attribution of authors is confusing – *most* of the articles are by Dr. Penzel.) Touching on the same subject as Dr. Penzel, but in relation to depression, is an article from the June 1998 issue of SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, "The Neurobiology of Depression":         http://www.sciam.com/1998/0698issue/0698nemeroff.html After discussing brain biology, the author has this to say:   "Neurobiologists do not yet know exactly how the genetic, monoamine    and hormonal findings piece together, if indeed they always do. The    discoveries nonetheless suggest a partial scenario for how people    who endure traumatic childhoods become depressed later in life. I    call this hypothesis the stress-diathesis model of mood disorders,    in recognition of the interaction between experience (stress) and    inborn predisposition (diathesis).    The observation that depression runs in families means that certain    genetic traits in the affected families somehow lower the threshold    for depression. Conceivably, the genetic features directly or    indirectly diminish monoamine levels in synapses or increase    reactivity of the HPA axis to stress. The genetically determined    threshold is not necessarily low enough to induce depression in the    absence of serious stress but may then be pushed still lower by    early, adverse life experiences.    My colleagues and I propose that early abuse or neglect not only    activates the stress response but induces persistently increased    activity in CRF-containing neurons, which are known to be stress    responsive and to be overactive in depressed people. If the    hyperactivity in the neurons of children persisted through    adulthood, these supersensitive cells would react vigorously    even to mild stressors. This effect in people already innately    predisposed to depression could then produce both the    neuroendocrine and behavioral responses characteristic of the    disorder." Although pretty firmly in the biology camp myself regarding the origins of OCD, I came away from the article with a greater appreciation of whatatrip’s ideas.

Response:

Thomas Luby <tel…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:26217-38188FB6-41@storefull-287.iap.bryant.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have been hesitating to relay this info for fear it might start one of > those very long and boring debates on the origins of OCD but I finally > decided it was worth the risk!!! > Here goes: > Exerpts from Dr. Fred Penzels speech at an OCD work shop at the annual > OCF conference this past summer. It is entitled, "Living with your loved > one’s OCD" and I am excerpting from a summary written in the latest OCD > newsletter from the OCF. (Got that?) > "How significant others react to their loved one’s OCD interms of > sympathy and support, and the way they let it affect their lives, > depends upon the MODEL of mental illness they subscribe to. If they > adhere to the "Moral Model", they may view OCD as being the result of > weakness and a lack of character. They will tend to blame the sufferer > for the ir disorder. If they believe in the "Disease Model", they will > see the problem as purely biological and the sufferer as helpless and > incapable. They will expect little or nothing of them. If they use the > "Biopsychosocial Model", they will rightly understand that the disorder > has a biological basis, learned components and inputs from the social > environment. They will not only realize that OCD is not their loved > one’s fault, but also that they are responsible for helping themsleves > to recover."

I think this is a no brainer, of course it is true. I have only read what you posted above and it speaks only of significant others. I would add the same applies to the sufferer of ocd. In other words the beginning of the sentance would read "How ocders react to their ocd in terms of ……………………………..depends upon the MODEL of mental illness they subscribe to." > Nice new term, "Biopyschosocial Model", huh? maybe this might finally > give some folks here a nice compromise about OCD’s development. But > remember, this is just ONE shrinks opinion. IT IS NOT FACT OR > SCIENCE!!!!

Keep in mind that even the "science" behind the models is subject to interpretation and "opinion". So this guy is just as likely to be right as any other "opinions". BTW, this is the model I have embraced and sought treatment encompassing that broader model. I also think that as "current" treatments incorporate the "total" person, more progress will be made. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.net

Response:

read the above post for more on this;

Response:

I have been hesitating to relay this info for fear it might start one of those very long and boring debates on the origins of OCD but I finally decided it was worth the risk!!! Here goes: Exerpts from Dr. Fred Penzels speech at an OCD work shop at the annual OCF conference this past summer. It is entitled, "Living with your loved one’s OCD" and I am excerpting from a summary written in the latest OCD newsletter from the OCF. (Got that?) "How significant others react to their loved one’s OCD interms of sympathy and support, and the way they let it affect their lives, depends upon the MODEL of mental illness they subscribe to. If they adhere to the "Moral Model", they may view OCD as being the result of weakness and a lack of character. They will tend to blame the sufferer for the ir disorder. If they believe in the "Disease Model", they will see the problem as purely biological and the sufferer as helpless and incapable. They will expect little or nothing of them. If they use the "Biopsychosocial Model", they will rightly understand that the disorder has a biological basis, learned components and inputs from the social environment. They will not only realize that OCD is not their loved one’s fault, but also that they are responsible for helping themsleves to recover." Nice new term, "Biopyschosocial Model", huh? maybe this might finally give some folks here a nice compromise about OCD’s development. But remember, this is just ONE shrinks opinion. IT IS NOT FACT OR SCIENCE!!!! Have a nice day! Tom    

Response:

Question:

Hi Joseph Another topic that has me concerned is the erosion of our synaptic clusters as Bill Trucks posted several weeks ago. This is a very new topic and is apparently viewable by various cat scans, Bill says that Harvard is about to upgrade the "beast" from a disorder to a progressive illness. And another topic that is close to me is relationships. In mine I want to get close but when I get close it’s too close and I run for the hills. Any thoughts on how I can have a relationship that lasts more than 6 months. James "It is better to invent reality than to copy it"–Verdi

Response:

What does it take to build a lasting relationship? Better Health decided to ask some experts…But not just *ANY* experts! We put our questions to a couple who not only have been married for over 30 years, but who are marriage counselors who work together with clients as well as doing counseling separately: Joan C. Peters, LCSW and David S. Peters, PhD. Read the answers below, then submit your own question! Answers to selected questions will be featured here each Monday! Here’s what they had to say… Better Health: What is the most important element in a relationship? The Experts: There are many important elements but communication ranks high on the list. It varies for different couples. For some it is interest, for others it is stability, security or connectedness. Better Health: What can you do to keep the excitement alive in a relationship? The Experts: In a mature relationship between two adults, as opposed to two adolescents, people do not require as much entertainment or excitement to experience the rewards of love. The notion of keeping excitement alive is largely media hype. Or, sometimes it is people looking to the "other" to provide a way out of depression, boredom, or emptiness. To keep the excitement alive a couple needs to enjoy each other and allow each other to grow and change. A couple needs to pursue new interests together and sometimes apart. Better Health: People often look back on the "honeymoon" times of a relationship and wish things could have stayed that way.  What do you tell people when they express something like this? The Experts: Basically the attitude that things won’t change is unrealistic. People need to grow, and couples need to allow each other to grow and change is inevitable. Better Health: Do you think marriages and other relationships should be on a 50/50 basis? The Experts: Balance is crucial to a relationship. An emphasis on duality and compromise rather than self-centeredness and extremism is important. The goal is to create balance and harmony in a relationship satisfying each person’s needs respectfully. To do this requires cooperation. Cooperation is a concept of caring and reciprocity that is based on clear verbal and non-verbal communication. Today’s society is demanding and complex. So cooperation is essential to enhancing the effectiveness and productivity of the couple as a pair and as individuals. Better Health: How do people find the "perfect" mate? The Experts: We have found that couples with lasting love meet in one of two ways. They either are friends first and their love develops slowly with increasing passion and commitment or it is a "love-at-first-sight" experience. It is an immediate and often unconscious reaction that says " this is the one for me!" Better Health: What is a frequent cause of strife between couples? The Experts: Male/female communication is often a source of difficulties. Money, child-raising issues, and disrespect are also reasons that people have problems. The ability to accept each other’s differences is both a sign of maturity and serves to enhance communication. It helps avoid negativity and blaming. In general, acceptance promotes love and broadens our view of the world. WE like to advocate an attitude of benevolence. Benevolence is akin to Lincoln’s statement about healing the wounds of the civil war which referred to appealing to "the better angels of our nature." The marital union responds to benevolence especially after a civil or uncivil war. Better Health: Are big differences in ages or "young" marriages generally marriages that are asking for trouble? The Experts: Not necessarily. Differences of many kinds exist in a marriage. In good relationships, people generally admire one or more characteristics in the other person.  We usually admire something in the other person that we lack. Often this creates friction in addition to enjoyment. Tension occurs because we often don’t understand personal qualities that are different than our own. Accepting each other’s differences and remembering to appreciate those qualities is very important. HRS: Can children help a marriage? The Experts: Children often add stress to a marriage, but it can be meaningful stress. So, in the case of a troubled marriage, they will absolutely not save it. They do add an area for growth and maturity as well as the opportunity to see love grow. Better Health: How do second marriages differ from first marriages? The Experts: People generally do not want to "fail" a second time. So they work harder at being understanding and showing love and appreciation. Also they are older and have a better understanding of themselves at that point. Better Health: How do you know when it is time to get married or time to have kids? The Experts: This is a complicated question. Most people "just know" and they have enough trust to proceed in the average life stage development pattern. Some people, however, are deeply afraid of commitment and remain reluctant for years and therefore ultimately lose out on one of life’s deepest and most natural pleasures. Better Health: Why are some people scared to commit to a relationship? The Experts: People are scared for many reasons; relationships, although definitely worth it, take some work. They also take a great deal of courage — the capacity to take the risk to love and be loved fully. Without daring to be intimately known by another, we risk loneliness, withdrawal, isolation, and boredom. The courage to love helps provide lasting interest and meaningful depth in a relationship. Better Health: How can therapy help? The Experts: It provides people with the opportunity to define and discover their needs, to promote communication, resolve conflicts and learn more about what we call the ABCs of love. About the Experts: Joan C. Peters, MSW, BCD,has practiced privately for 20 years as a marriage counselor, mother’s group facilitator, and psychotherapist for young adults and women. She was speaker for Aldelphi University Suburban Women Studies and is a consultant for various community agencies. Currently she is also working in Sarasota, Florida with accident victims who experience post-traumatic stress. David S. Peters, Ph.D.,Diplomate in Clinical Psychology, is a co-founder and former director of The Institute for Counseling and Psychotherapy in New Jersey. He recently began practicing in Sarasota, Florida at Behavior/Medical Services. He has had 25 years of private practice and experience supervising at Yeshiva University and the National Institute of Psychotherapies in New York and Charlotte County Hospital in Florida. He specializes in marital therapy, psychotherapy and forensic psychological assessment. Find out more about establishing, maintaining, and strengthening healthy relationships in Better Health & Medical Network’s(keyword Better Health) Relationship Forum. Transmitted: 3/20/98 2:38 AM (lovelast) Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

James, I have sent you two different documents that I thought might give you some sort of insight with your problem at hand. Now mind you that ( I am guessing ) about 50% of us that are depressed in one form or another, have difficulties with realationships. And I don’t mean just with thier Spouse’s either, I mean with family and friends too. Being in a realationship is a combination of trust and honesty and the ability to let the other know what you are about, your depression and how it affects you from day to day. I see that this is such a vital aspect to any realationship and is often misplace because as men, we tend to try and stand up to the Social Standards of being a man. By that I mean, "Men are not supposed to be vulnerable. Pain is something to rise above. He who has been brought down by it will  most likely see himself as shameful, and so, too, may his family and friends."  (Quoted from: " I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT " By, Terrence Real.   Aslo, " The very definition of manhood lies in "Standing up" to discomfort and pain." However, there might be a part of you that doesn’t want the realationship to go beyond that time limit. And really, you are the only one that knows that for sure. Look deep inside of your self and find some answers and move on from there. I had two failed marriages, and all of my plights with woman have ended very quickly. So Iam in the same type of boat that you are in with the exception that I know that I am not ready for any type of realationship other than  just being friends with someone, which is really the people I talk to here on line. s far as the other question, that one I will have to look into a bit more. It does sound interesting and if this is the case where by it isn’t something that can be treated and vanish, but instead, builds and maintains, this could prove very useful for those of us that need help in other forms. Joseph Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

Thanks Joseph For your input. I too, right now, have litle desire for a relationship other than friends. The main part of that is I don’t want the emotional side that goes along with them. Not too mention the fact that relationship cost dough and  time, I’m puttin mine out to chase my dream. If I catch the dream it will put me in a lot better frame of mind for a relationship. Thanks again James I feel I search in shallow waters for someone of depth.

Response:

ASulli1982 wrote in message <19990213191249.04993.00001…@ng19.aol.com>… >James, > Least us not forget that dreams can become easier to obtain with a partner. >But then again, that depends on the partner.

You got that right Joseph…seems my partners set be back rather that help with movin forward….I best be more careful in my choices. >The trek may be long and hard to endure,

Hey I know long and hard, I amaze my budz at how I get myself intoall these scrapes, then pull out flying higher than I ever was before. Well I gotta doozy goin now…..but hey the chinese new year starts in 4 daze and it’s supposed to be my year, I’m pulliin out of a four year slump with flying colors apperently…..they best be right oe I’m gonna be pickin out my shopping cart . .. Thanks for the words Joseph

Response:

What does it take to make love last?  Marriage counselors Joan C. Peters, MSCSW, and David S. Peters, PhD, who have been married to each other for over 30 years, suggest learning — and practicing — the ABC’s of Love: Admiration…remember to admire the person you love, even the characteristics or qualities that are different from yours. Acceptance…accept each others’ differences. Benevolence…develop an attitude of appreciation. Balance…work toward achieving duality and compromise. Cooperation…promote a concept of caring and reciprocity. Courage…take the risk to live and love fully. Find out more about establishing, maintaining, and strengthening healthy relationships in Better Health & Medical Network’s (keyword Better Health) Relationship Forum. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

You are most welcome James Joseph Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

Lu,   Man, how I can relate to that statement. I have had my share of doormat times. But I am growing form them all one experience at a time. Keep your chin up and keep on smiling that smile. Joseph Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

>You got that right Joseph…seems my partners set be back rather that help >with movin forward….I best be more careful in my choices.

I do the same thing, James…..sometimes, it is hard to be alone, but better that than being treated like a doormat.  That’s the type that I have a knack for picking out. Lu

Response:

James,  Least us not forget that dreams can become easier to obtain with a partner. But then again, that depends on the partner. I hope that all your journeys that lay ahead of you become a reality.  The trek ay be long and hard to endure, but know that there are others out here to help you along the way. Friendships are the start of lasting friendships. That can lead to more over time. Joseph Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

Hey Joseph That is some good stuff. I have archived it all Thanks James 3

Response:

Hi James: I saved some of it as well.  Somedays, just when I am thinking I am the only poor soul suffering from this crap…… Well, you know what I mean.   Talked to Bill today!!  <g> Best, Luanne

Response:

LuanneP wrote in message <19990211223828.13211.00000…@ng-fu1.aol.com>… >Talked to Bill today!!  <g> >Best, >Luanne

Hi Lu Me 2….did you get my note, what a character huh? James

Response:

I am glad that you all liked the format of information. If there is another topic you would like to see please let me know and I will see what I can come up with. What a world we hide in Joseph Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Response:

I found this on line at I-Village.com, I thought that for some of the new people vearing in on this newgroup, it might prove helpful. Mental Health Posttraumatic Stress Posttraumatic stress syndrome is a disorder that develops in individuals who have experienced an emotionally or physically traumatic event that is considered to be outside the range of normal human experience. Such events include rape, assault, combat, and other human or natural disasters. Signs of Posttraumatic Stress Syndrome Posttraumatic stress syndrome is characterized by: — recurrent or intrusive distressing recollections of an event (images, thoughts, perceptions) — re-experiencing the trauma of the event through dreams or flashbacks — feelings of emotional numbness and detachment from others — irritability or exaggerated startle responses, or hypervigilence — sleep difficulties — anger or anxiety — difficulty concentrating — physiological responses to situations or events that symbolize or resemble the original stressful event or situation The disorder typically is the result of a traumatic experience, such as war or combat, physical assault, or rape. Symptoms of the disorder may occur within hours of the stressful event. Or they may not appear until months or years later. Diagnosing Posttraumatic Stress Syndrome A physician will perform a complete physical, including a personal medical history and family medical history. He or she may recommend tests to rule out other causes of the symptoms. If no physical causes are identified as the source of the symptoms, the physician may refer the individual to someone who specializes in emotional disorders. Treatment Options Many people with posttraumatic stress disorder benefit from individual counseling and group therapy. Often, treatment includes teaching the individual to learn to relax. Sometimes, hypnosis can encourage a psychological release of the traumatic event. The physician may prescribe antianxiety or antidepressant medication. In order to make informed decisions about their health and medical needs, individuals should ask their physicians to fully explain the benefits, risks, side effects, and costs of all treatment alternatives. Reviewed 1997 by Joan C. Peters, LCSW Copyright 1997 Better Health & Medical Network Joseph Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

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Question:

       There are also techniques which you can learned which will help.      Send a check or money order for $7.95 to JMB, Dept AA88, 735 LeCompte St., DeRidder, La. 70634.

How do I knowed if I spended this money that it will worked? Will you refunded my money if when I readed this thing and it doesn’t helped? -Fred Godejohn

Response:

Anxiety:      Everyone feels anxious at one time or another.  However, there are various anxiety symptoms which indicates a more serious problem.       A Panic Attack is a sudden onset of intense apprehension, fearfulness, or terror, often associated with feelings of impending doom.  During these periods symptoms may include shortness of breath, heart palpitations, chest pain or discomfort, choking or smothering sensations, and fear of going crazy or losing control.  These attacks are quite painful but usually will rise to a peak in 10 minutes or less.  Then they begin to subside.  Many people are seen in emergency rooms thinking they are having a heart attack when in fact they are having a panic attack.        Posttraumatic Stress Disorder is characterized by the re-experiencing of an extremely traumatic event.  Symptoms include intrusive recollections of the event, nightmares of the event, feelings as if the event was recurring, intense psychological distress at exposure to something which resembles an aspect of the event.  Others symptoms may include sleep difficulty, irritability, difficulty concentration, hyper vigilance, or exaggerated startle response.       There are numerous other anxiety disorders.  If you feel you have most of these symptoms and they are adversely effecting your life, I would recommend you seek help from a Professional Counselor.        There are also techniques which you can learned which will help. I have produced a short one hour program which when followed will change your self-defeating thought patterns and move you to a more positive and thus happier outlook on life.  This program is very easy to follow and the techniques work.      Send a check or money order for $7.95 to JMB, Dept AA88, 735 LeCompte St., DeRidder, La. 70634.

Response:

hey lamo!  send us each 8 bucks and we can give you a real education about mental problems.  we have no interest in your amature attept at psycology.  i would rather go to lucy in the peanuts comic.  you state no formal qualification for you medical practice????  mabey i should forward your spam to the ama for prosicution.  practicing psycyiatry without a licence.  they can be lots of fum to deal with.   i seriously hope no one is actually fool enough to fall for your shit. we ge very ill people here.  many of us are suicidal.  many of us are into self harm. your pathetic amature pamphlet could easily end up in death in this group.  rest assured if i find out it does i will se to it your spamming ass if found and prosecuted. dennis "our compliments to the M-5 unit. and regards to captain dunsail."

Response:

Hey, thanks for the test.  Although I am posting on alt.support.depression, I had no *idea* that I was depressed.   Oh, and that 11th sign of depression? The desire to throttle people who try to sell you a cure.   ;-P Karin

Response:

Question:

At risk of offending the people who really hated it, there was a very good article in the New Yorker about 4 weeks ago on MPD and its history of diagnosis. Nina

THIS IS NOT ANYTHING AGAINST THE AUTHOR OF THE POST ABOVE…A response to the ARTICLE only. as a persons with MPD/DID—I can truly, honestly say…THIS ARTICLE WAS SHIT.  CRAP.  DOODY.  BULLDUNG.  TRASH.  WASTE.  EXCRETION. The woman who wrote it presented three EXTREME examples that were OBVIOUSLY one of the VERY FEW bad apples.  First, her statistics—WRONG! whether they were misquoted or she purposely "adapted" them to fit her own purposes is neither here, nor there, because the NY’er should have checked first.  I know three MPs in real life…"one" in the Lou area (apart from "me") and "two" in other states.  I am on a listserv specifically for talking about living with MP…and it is NOT pleasant, NOT fun, NOT liberating.  On the contrary, it is PAINFUL, SCARY, and FRIGHTENING….not to mention LONELY, because no one wants to date "one of them" because of the social stigma.  There are about three people on the listserv i can pick out as NOT being "true" MPs, I would, rather, classify them as DDNOS. Which is to say, they are either "integrated" or they never were separate. The woman who wrote this article was NOT a doctor, psychologist, therapist, or incest survivor.  She was a woman with an opinion, one inflamed by media propaganda.  Specifically, the False Memory "syndrome" foundation.   and i use the term syndrome loosely, because it is NOT a medical term, it is a political one.  used to give themselves credit where none exists.   The founders of the FMF are Peter and Pamela Freyd, and their daughter PRIVATELY confronted them about sexual abuse.  THEY took it public…formed this board…AND ASKED THEIR DAUGHTER TO SIT ON THE BOARD. when interviewed, friends of the family say that Peter kept a life size, realistic model of his genetalia on display.  He bragged about being a "male prostitute who had sex with adults when {he} was 11."  He often taunted their daughter Jennifer sexually in public, telling her to shorten her dress so they could see more of her ass, patting and pinching her on the buttocks, etc.  This was witnessed over and over again.  One acquaintance said quote "There was definitely something going on in that family, the sexual overtones couldn’t be missed." Another member of the board of directors is a woman who was investigated by the APA for "sexual and other ethics violations" and subsequently quit. Yet another is a magician…The Amazing Randi…who spent his life discrediting people, and there is a tape of him and two young teen boys on the phone and it is sexually explicit.  He said first it wasn’t him, then he was framed, then the police ASKED him to make the tape….hmmmm….. Still ANOTHER (now former) board member was forced to resign when an article about him appeared in a European Pedophilia magazine, where he was quoted as saying that "sexual relationships between children and adults can be and are appropriate and wholesome expressions of God’s Love for His Children." Kind of makes you think….85% of the FMF is made up of parents who have been accused of sexual abuse by their children.  Around 40% of those have been convicted.  Why would an organization that supported the "family" that was healthy…have so many child abusers?  hmmmmm…. And on another note…the article(which is what this post STARTED on <gg)   stated that MPs were all white, middle/lower class females.  I personally know this to be untrue. Online,I know a black female mp (this in RL too), a GAY black MALE mp, several lesbian MPs that are white, more who are black, two hispanic MPs, one biracial gay male MP….hmmmmm….i guess that clears up THAT statistic….and the reason it is more diagnosed in this population is that more white middle/lower class females are in therapy, period.  This is a proven statistic.  White females are also more likely to have multiple diagnoses, as well as being prescribed more drugs on average than the males in the MH community, even tho the males have statistically more severe disorders (IE schitzophrenia as opposed to depression). This woman presented the idea of "Recovered Memory Therapy" that is biased and incorrect.  The "therapy" she described is NOTHING like anything I have ever used or heard of being used.  Many times, in fact, when offered the "treatment modality" of hypnosis (which neither I, nor anyone I know has ever used) will become terrified and refuse.  The only "guided imagery" that I know of is being led in your mind to a garden, or beach, or forest that is safe and quiet, just to sit.  And this is not only restricted to psychotherapy.  Biofeedback studies also use this technique, as well as many, many stress relief courses. A therapist who is "in it for the money", as she claimed, would work with someone OTHER than mps, because mps have a tendancy to switch ts a lot, and stop treatment all together, or commit suicide. THIS IS NOT A FUN, PLEASANT, OR "MAGIC" (her word) WAY TO LIVE. I DO NOT *ENJOY* MY LIFE, AS IT IS NOW. I AM CONSISTANTLY SUICIDAL, I HAVE CONSTANT FLASHBACKS, AND I AM AFRAID OF EVERYTHING.   I AM WOMAN.  I AM ALIVE.  I AM STRONG.  I AM A SURVIVOR. Myke, for Sapphyre et al.

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Schizophrenia is not the same as having multiple personalities.  There are many types of schizophrenia, what they have in common is that the affected person has auditory, visual, tactile, or olfactory hallucinations. Schizophrenics often here voices.  These voices often have negative messages.  MPD, multiple personality disorder, is just that; having more than one "person" inside one body.  MPD is generally a symptom of SEVERE abuse or from one witnessing a very traumatic event. For information about combating more common problems such as stress, anxiety, and depression visit www.selfhelpnet.com. Sean Flannery, Biofeedback Therapist

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Anyone know the differance between Multiple Personality disorder and Schitzophrenia (major sp)?

Schitzophrenia is NOT that which common belief implies.  it is not a "split" between totally different "people" in one body at all. — Laz Spashett / wolfbitch "made it through another year, crying yet another tear pondering the endless questions of life…."    (galactic cowboys)

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Anyone know the differance between Multiple Personality disorder and Schitzophrenia (major sp)?

Well, I’m definitely not a doctor, and I sometimes don’t remember things I’ve read very well, so please, no one jump on me for this, but it *seems* that schizophrenia is a chemical/neurological dis- order, while MPD seems to have ‘outside’ causes (i.e., the vast majority, if not all, cases of MPD seem to be related to horrendous abuse in the person’s early years.) Tracey

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I just say the movie, Sybl. Great movie! It was inspiring to see someone that far gone, come back. I just wish my therpist cared that much. Anyone know the differance between Multiple Personality disorder and Schitzophrenia (major sp)?

At risk of offending the people who really hated it, there was a very good article in the New Yorker about 4 weeks ago on MPD and its history of diagnosis. Nina

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I just say the movie, Sybl. Great movie! It was inspiring to see someone that far gone, come back. I just wish my therpist cared that much. Anyone know the differance between Multiple Personality disorder and Schitzophrenia (major sp)?

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Question:

Bohannon, J.N. (1988)   Flashbulb memories for the Space Shuttle disaster:  A tale of two theories.   Cognition, 29, 179-196. Bremner, J.D. Krystal, J.H., Southwick, S.M., & Charney, D.  (1995)   Functional neuroanatomical correlates of the effects of stress on memory. Journal of Traumatic Stress, 8, 527-553. Brown, R.,  & Kulik, J.  (1977)   Flashbulb memories.   Cognition, 5, 73-99. Christianson, S-A.  (1992).   Emotional stress and eyewitness memory:  A critical review.   Psychological Bulletin, 112, 284-309. Heuer, F., & Rausberg, D. (1992) Emotion, arousal, and memory for detail. In S-A Christianson (Ed), The Handbook of emotion and memory (pp. 151-506) Hillsdale, NJ:  Lawrence Erlbaum. LeDoux, J. E. (1993) Emotion as memory:  In search of systems and synapses. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 702, 149-157 Leichtman, M. D., Ceci, S., & Ornstein, P. A. (1992) The influence of affect on memory:  Mechanism and development. In S-A Christianson (Ed.), Handbook of emotion and memory Marmar, C. R., Weiss, D. S., Schlenger, W. E., Fairbank, J. A., Jordan, K., Kulka, R. A., & Hough, R. L. (1994) Peritraumatic dissociation and posttraumatic stress in male Vietnam theater veterans. American Journal of Psychiatry, 151, 902-907 Pitman, R.K., Orr, S., & Shalev, A. (1993) Once bitten twice shy:  Beyond the conditioning model of PTSD. Biological Psychiatry, 33, 145-146 Putnam, F. W. (1989) Diagnosis and treatment of multiple personality disorder. New York:  Guilford Schacter, D.L. (1986) Amnesia and crime:  How much do we really know? American Psychologist, 41(3), 286-295. **Better yet, just get this one book, which contains thousands of references: van der Kolk, B.A., McFarlane, A.C. & Weisaeth, L. (Eds.) (1996) Traumatic Stress:  The effects of overwhelming experience on mind, body and society New York:  Guilford

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I just wanted to add one: Memory and Abuse  by  Dr. Charles L. Whitfield.   (Remembering and Healing the Effects of Trauma) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bohannon, J.N. (1988)   Flashbulb memories for the Space Shuttle disaster:  A tale of two theories.   Cognition, 29, 179-196. Bremner, J.D. Krystal, J.H., Southwick, S.M., & Charney, D.  (1995)   Functional neuroanatomical correlates of the effects of stress on memory. Journal of Traumatic Stress, 8, 527-553. Brown, R.,  & Kulik, J.  (1977)   Flashbulb memories.   Cognition, 5, 73-99. Christianson, S-A.  (1992).   Emotional stress and eyewitness memory:  A critical review.   Psychological Bulletin, 112, 284-309. Heuer, F., & Rausberg, D. (1992) Emotion, arousal, and memory for detail. In S-A Christianson (Ed), The Handbook of emotion and memory (pp. 151-506) Hillsdale, NJ:  Lawrence Erlbaum. LeDoux, J. E. (1993) Emotion as memory:  In search of systems and synapses. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 702, 149-157 Leichtman, M. D., Ceci, S., & Ornstein, P. A. (1992) The influence of affect on memory:  Mechanism and development. In S-A Christianson (Ed.), Handbook of emotion and memory Marmar, C. R., Weiss, D. S., Schlenger, W. E., Fairbank, J. A., Jordan, K., Kulka, R. A., & Hough, R. L. (1994) Peritraumatic dissociation and posttraumatic stress in male Vietnam theater veterans. American Journal of Psychiatry, 151, 902-907 Pitman, R.K., Orr, S., & Shalev, A. (1993) Once bitten twice shy:  Beyond the conditioning model of PTSD. Biological Psychiatry, 33, 145-146 Putnam, F. W. (1989) Diagnosis and treatment of multiple personality disorder. New York:  Guilford Schacter, D.L. (1986) Amnesia and crime:  How much do we really know? American Psychologist, 41(3), 286-295. **Better yet, just get this one book, which contains thousands of references: van der Kolk, B.A., McFarlane, A.C. & Weisaeth, L. (Eds.) (1996) Traumatic Stress:  The effects of overwhelming experience on mind, body and society New York:  Guilford

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