Question:
Larry, I remember those times during Viet Nam. It was just horrible. I too, hope things will be better this time. I was always totally against the Viet Nam war, but never the soldiers, it was the politicians waging that war that I was against. As far as I knew, the boys around me, the ones who went, didn’t go by "choice". They were drafted into it. And even as a kid it just seemed to me that it went around and around without ever gaining any ground. Year after year went by and the war went on like some endless machine that never went anywhere. It seemed like we’d gain one hill and lose it the next week. My heart went out to those who had to go. There are so many pictures burned into ones mind and this last week will go downlike that in me anyway. Right along with the pictures of President Kennedy getting shot, the young girl running naked after was it Agent Orange?? pictures of the Oakland earthquake and Oklahoma city. And now there is that plane hitting the second building at the Trade Center. My daughter had called me from work, waking me up, asking me what was happening. I turned on CNN and saw the fire, was trying to tell her what I was seeing when from out of nowhere this plane comes right up and smashes into the second building. I couldn’t believe my eyes, couldn’t comprehend what I’d just seen, was trying to tell her what just happened…….. I’ve had nightmares since. I don’t know if other ptsd’ers "feel" it the same, but I always feel as if I’d been beaten up when something new joins the "mass of terrors in my mind." I feel all bruised and broken inside, like somebody who’s been beaten and can hardly get up again. It’s hard to breathe, can’t get many deep breaths into my chest. And that feeling as if all my insides are black and blue, it just aches so. tiny dancer "Lawrence Lusk" <lelvn…@charter.net> wrote in message
news:tqa528k4d89p7b@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No way I can forget those who died Sam. But the dead are dead as cruel as > that may seem. There are worse things than being dead, and I consider it as > an escape from time to time. I will wait and see how the "people at home" > continue to support our "boys" (and girls now) as this grinds on. When I got > home from Nam and people my age spat on me and called me "baby killer" (my > own brother, good god) it was very hard to be "proud to be an American". I > had to do things during my time in war that are impossible for me to > describe and drive me to the brink of suicide when I’m forced to think about > them (why do you think "baby killer" hurt so bad?). No soldier, until he > gets deep into it really knows what it’s all about, draftee or > "professional". I can’t feel the way you do Sam. All I can feel is a deep > sadness about everything (and anger which I’m trying to push away). > Larry L. > "SAM" <samfetl…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:3BA4FA3A.140109C0@hotmail.com… > > Larry: > > I totally understand your feelings about people in War. However, let’s > put a > > perspective on this? What absolute and hideous horror did those > passengers on > > those ill-fated jets gp through? What same horror did the thousands of > people > > go through that were alive and feeling the "Towers" and floors collapsing > > beneath their feet, those people falling/jumping to their deaths? None of > these > > people were aware what they were going to face…they were not soldiers. > You > > are right about being in a war. You nor I can convey such horror to > > anyone…but you and I can know how those felt that knew they were facing > death > > as the buildings fell. Liberty and freedom has always demanded the > supreme > > sacrifice. If we are ever unwilling to pay that price, then we will > surely lose > > our freedom. It is unfortunate that freedom requires sacrifice, however I > would > > not choose to live any other way! Tens of thousands have given their > lives for > > what and how we live Today. What happened on Tuesday now requires we > "step-up" > > as did our ancestors and be willing to continue to pay that ultimate > price. > > Freedom has a price, it is not "free!" All soldiers who survived > terrible Wars > > have suffered "Shell Shock" or today called PTSD. Again, that is the > price we > > pay for what we have today. I hate war! I hate the cruelness and horror > that > > man can do to each other. However, over all of Human history, this has > been the > > case. Our Country stands tall and free as a beacon to the rest of the > World. > > Never has there been a country like ours our freedom of individuals on > such a > > scale. However, we paid a price in blood and tragedy for this right. > PTSD has > > been around since biblical days. It may not have been called that, but it > was > > there. So yes, we must "sit on the sidelines and watch and remember and > cry > > for the pain that others are going to have to endure," but remember, we > sit in > > "freedom" to do so! > > With pride as an American, > > Sam > > Lawrence Lusk wrote: > > > Hi Doug, > > > Only someone who has been to war can really know what our brave young > men > > > and women are going to have to face in the near future. I was in the > PTSD > > > program at Menlo Park (now the National Center for PTSD) during Desert > > > Storm. Some of us back then wanted to go in place of a younger soldier > to > > > save them from the trauma that we had gone through. The harsh truth that > we > > > had to face over eleven years ago was that we were all in our early > forties > > > and for innumerable reasons would have been a hindrance rather than a > help > > > to our younger comrades-in-arms. We are consigned to sit on the > sidelines > > > and watch and remember and cry for the pain that others are going to > have to > > > endure. > > > I can’t go out and stand on a corner and wave the flag. The fact that I > have > > > trouble leaving my house much of the time aside, my feelings are in a > > > different place than most there. While they feel patriotism and anger > about > > > what has happened and are happy that we are getting ready to take our > > > revenge, all I can think about is the horror that a small segment of our > > > people are about to experience. I know how you feel Doug. I arrived in > Nam > > > the day Tet ‘68 started and served as a grunt with the 1st. Cav. While I > > > feel the need and know the necessity for revenge I’m fighting with all > my > > > strength to feel nothing. This is my only defense against the memories > and > > > emotions that what is happening now is triggering inside me. God help > all > > > those now in harms way, the horror is just beginning for them. Stay safe > > > Doug. You are not alone. > > > Larry L. > > > "Douglas Lemieux" <bcogr…@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > > > news:9I%o7.171854$8c3.25247928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com… > > > > It has been hard to come into public chatrooms or to express my > feelings, > > > > but remembering my journaling during the Gulf war and the emotions > that it > > > > brought out, and the diagnosis of PTSD at Hines VA in 1996, I have a > > > little > > > > more understanding of the way my body is reacting physically and > > > > emotionally. I have PTSD counseling this coming week at Bay Pines, so > will > > > > be able to see buddies there. > > > > Again, as in 1990, I realize that my wars are over, and the kids have > to > > > > carry the load as we did in our time, even though I would trade my > life to > > > > save an 19 year old the possible condition that I received from > Vietnam > > > and > > > > combat. That feeling of uselessness and the paradox of what the world > is > > > > going thru while I sit here in Florida Paradise, thinking, praying, > > > > meditating, but still doing the things I love while the President > readies > > > > the nation for war is surreal. All I can do is offer my prayers for > those > > > > that carry the load now. > > > > God bless this Nation and all of you > > > > Cpl Doug (USMCR)
Response:
Larry: I totally understand your feelings about people in War. However, let’s put a perspective on this? What absolute and hideous horror did those passengers on those ill-fated jets gp through? What same horror did the thousands of people go through that were alive and feeling the "Towers" and floors collapsing beneath their feet, those people falling/jumping to their deaths? None of these people were aware what they were going to face…they were not soldiers. You are right about being in a war. You nor I can convey such horror to anyone…but you and I can know how those felt that knew they were facing death as the buildings fell. Liberty and freedom has always demanded the supreme sacrifice. If we are ever unwilling to pay that price, then we will surely lose our freedom. It is unfortunate that freedom requires sacrifice, however I would not choose to live any other way! Tens of thousands have given their lives for what and how we live Today. What happened on Tuesday now requires we "step-up" as did our ancestors and be willing to continue to pay that ultimate price. Freedom has a price, it is not "free!" All soldiers who survived terrible Wars have suffered "Shell Shock" or today called PTSD. Again, that is the price we pay for what we have today. I hate war! I hate the cruelness and horror that man can do to each other. However, over all of Human history, this has been the case. Our Country stands tall and free as a beacon to the rest of the World. Never has there been a country like ours our freedom of individuals on such a scale. However, we paid a price in blood and tragedy for this right. PTSD has been around since biblical days. It may not have been called that, but it was there. So yes, we must "sit on the sidelines and watch and remember and cry for the pain that others are going to have to endure," but remember, we sit in "freedom" to do so! With pride as an American, Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lawrence Lusk wrote: > Hi Doug, > Only someone who has been to war can really know what our brave young men > and women are going to have to face in the near future. I was in the PTSD > program at Menlo Park (now the National Center for PTSD) during Desert > Storm. Some of us back then wanted to go in place of a younger soldier to > save them from the trauma that we had gone through. The harsh truth that we > had to face over eleven years ago was that we were all in our early forties > and for innumerable reasons would have been a hindrance rather than a help > to our younger comrades-in-arms. We are consigned to sit on the sidelines > and watch and remember and cry for the pain that others are going to have to > endure. > I can’t go out and stand on a corner and wave the flag. The fact that I have > trouble leaving my house much of the time aside, my feelings are in a > different place than most there. While they feel patriotism and anger about > what has happened and are happy that we are getting ready to take our > revenge, all I can think about is the horror that a small segment of our > people are about to experience. I know how you feel Doug. I arrived in Nam > the day Tet ‘68 started and served as a grunt with the 1st. Cav. While I > feel the need and know the necessity for revenge I’m fighting with all my > strength to feel nothing. This is my only defense against the memories and > emotions that what is happening now is triggering inside me. God help all > those now in harms way, the horror is just beginning for them. Stay safe > Doug. You are not alone. > Larry L. > "Douglas Lemieux" <bcogr…@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > news:9I%o7.171854$8c3.25247928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com… > > It has been hard to come into public chatrooms or to express my feelings, > > but remembering my journaling during the Gulf war and the emotions that it > > brought out, and the diagnosis of PTSD at Hines VA in 1996, I have a > little > > more understanding of the way my body is reacting physically and > > emotionally. I have PTSD counseling this coming week at Bay Pines, so will > > be able to see buddies there. > > Again, as in 1990, I realize that my wars are over, and the kids have to > > carry the load as we did in our time, even though I would trade my life to > > save an 19 year old the possible condition that I received from Vietnam > and > > combat. That feeling of uselessness and the paradox of what the world is > > going thru while I sit here in Florida Paradise, thinking, praying, > > meditating, but still doing the things I love while the President readies > > the nation for war is surreal. All I can do is offer my prayers for those > > that carry the load now. > > God bless this Nation and all of you > > Cpl Doug (USMCR)
Response:
No way I can forget those who died Sam. But the dead are dead as cruel as that may seem. There are worse things than being dead, and I consider it as an escape from time to time. I will wait and see how the "people at home" continue to support our "boys" (and girls now) as this grinds on. When I got home from Nam and people my age spat on me and called me "baby killer" (my own brother, good god) it was very hard to be "proud to be an American". I had to do things during my time in war that are impossible for me to describe and drive me to the brink of suicide when I’m forced to think about them (why do you think "baby killer" hurt so bad?). No soldier, until he gets deep into it really knows what it’s all about, draftee or "professional". I can’t feel the way you do Sam. All I can feel is a deep sadness about everything (and anger which I’m trying to push away). Larry L. "SAM" <samfetl…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BA4FA3A.140109C0@hotmail.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Larry: > I totally understand your feelings about people in War. However, let’s put a > perspective on this? What absolute and hideous horror did those passengers on > those ill-fated jets gp through? What same horror did the thousands of people > go through that were alive and feeling the "Towers" and floors collapsing > beneath their feet, those people falling/jumping to their deaths? None of these > people were aware what they were going to face…they were not soldiers. You > are right about being in a war. You nor I can convey such horror to > anyone…but you and I can know how those felt that knew they were facing death > as the buildings fell. Liberty and freedom has always demanded the supreme > sacrifice. If we are ever unwilling to pay that price, then we will surely lose > our freedom. It is unfortunate that freedom requires sacrifice, however I would > not choose to live any other way! Tens of thousands have given their lives for > what and how we live Today. What happened on Tuesday now requires we "step-up" > as did our ancestors and be willing to continue to pay that ultimate price. > Freedom has a price, it is not "free!" All soldiers who survived terrible Wars > have suffered "Shell Shock" or today called PTSD. Again, that is the price we > pay for what we have today. I hate war! I hate the cruelness and horror that > man can do to each other. However, over all of Human history, this has been the > case. Our Country stands tall and free as a beacon to the rest of the World. > Never has there been a country like ours our freedom of individuals on such a > scale. However, we paid a price in blood and tragedy for this right. PTSD has > been around since biblical days. It may not have been called that, but it was > there. So yes, we must "sit on the sidelines and watch and remember and cry > for the pain that others are going to have to endure," but remember, we sit in > "freedom" to do so! > With pride as an American, > Sam > Lawrence Lusk wrote: > > Hi Doug, > > Only someone who has been to war can really know what our brave young men > > and women are going to have to face in the near future. I was in the PTSD > > program at Menlo Park (now the National Center for PTSD) during Desert > > Storm. Some of us back then wanted to go in place of a younger soldier to > > save them from the trauma that we had gone through. The harsh truth that we > > had to face over eleven years ago was that we were all in our early forties > > and for innumerable reasons would have been a hindrance rather than a help > > to our younger comrades-in-arms. We are consigned to sit on the sidelines > > and watch and remember and cry for the pain that others are going to have to > > endure. > > I can’t go out and stand on a corner and wave the flag. The fact that I have > > trouble leaving my house much of the time aside, my feelings are in a > > different place than most there. While they feel patriotism and anger about > > what has happened and are happy that we are getting ready to take our > > revenge, all I can think about is the horror that a small segment of our > > people are about to experience. I know how you feel Doug. I arrived in Nam > > the day Tet ‘68 started and served as a grunt with the 1st. Cav. While I > > feel the need and know the necessity for revenge I’m fighting with all my > > strength to feel nothing. This is my only defense against the memories and > > emotions that what is happening now is triggering inside me. God help all > > those now in harms way, the horror is just beginning for them. Stay safe > > Doug. You are not alone. > > Larry L. > > "Douglas Lemieux" <bcogr…@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:9I%o7.171854$8c3.25247928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com… > > > It has been hard to come into public chatrooms or to express my feelings, > > > but remembering my journaling during the Gulf war and the emotions that it > > > brought out, and the diagnosis of PTSD at Hines VA in 1996, I have a > > little > > > more understanding of the way my body is reacting physically and > > > emotionally. I have PTSD counseling this coming week at Bay Pines, so will > > > be able to see buddies there. > > > Again, as in 1990, I realize that my wars are over, and the kids have to > > > carry the load as we did in our time, even though I would trade my life to > > > save an 19 year old the possible condition that I received from Vietnam > > and > > > combat. That feeling of uselessness and the paradox of what the world is > > > going thru while I sit here in Florida Paradise, thinking, praying, > > > meditating, but still doing the things I love while the President readies > > > the nation for war is surreal. All I can do is offer my prayers for those > > > that carry the load now. > > > God bless this Nation and all of you > > > Cpl Doug (USMCR)
Response:
Hi Doug, Only someone who has been to war can really know what our brave young men and women are going to have to face in the near future. I was in the PTSD program at Menlo Park (now the National Center for PTSD) during Desert Storm. Some of us back then wanted to go in place of a younger soldier to save them from the trauma that we had gone through. The harsh truth that we had to face over eleven years ago was that we were all in our early forties and for innumerable reasons would have been a hindrance rather than a help to our younger comrades-in-arms. We are consigned to sit on the sidelines and watch and remember and cry for the pain that others are going to have to endure. I can’t go out and stand on a corner and wave the flag. The fact that I have trouble leaving my house much of the time aside, my feelings are in a different place than most there. While they feel patriotism and anger about what has happened and are happy that we are getting ready to take our revenge, all I can think about is the horror that a small segment of our people are about to experience. I know how you feel Doug. I arrived in Nam the day Tet ‘68 started and served as a grunt with the 1st. Cav. While I feel the need and know the necessity for revenge I’m fighting with all my strength to feel nothing. This is my only defense against the memories and emotions that what is happening now is triggering inside me. God help all those now in harms way, the horror is just beginning for them. Stay safe Doug. You are not alone. Larry L. "Douglas Lemieux" <bcogr…@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9I%o7.171854$8c3.25247928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It has been hard to come into public chatrooms or to express my feelings, > but remembering my journaling during the Gulf war and the emotions that it > brought out, and the diagnosis of PTSD at Hines VA in 1996, I have a little > more understanding of the way my body is reacting physically and > emotionally. I have PTSD counseling this coming week at Bay Pines, so will > be able to see buddies there. > Again, as in 1990, I realize that my wars are over, and the kids have to > carry the load as we did in our time, even though I would trade my life to > save an 19 year old the possible condition that I received from Vietnam and > combat. That feeling of uselessness and the paradox of what the world is > going thru while I sit here in Florida Paradise, thinking, praying, > meditating, but still doing the things I love while the President readies > the nation for war is surreal. All I can do is offer my prayers for those > that carry the load now. > God bless this Nation and all of you > Cpl Doug (USMCR)
Response:
It has been hard to come into public chatrooms or to express my feelings, but remembering my journaling during the Gulf war and the emotions that it brought out, and the diagnosis of PTSD at Hines VA in 1996, I have a little more understanding of the way my body is reacting physically and emotionally. I have PTSD counseling this coming week at Bay Pines, so will be able to see buddies there. Again, as in 1990, I realize that my wars are over, and the kids have to carry the load as we did in our time, even though I would trade my life to save an 19 year old the possible condition that I received from Vietnam and combat. That feeling of uselessness and the paradox of what the world is going thru while I sit here in Florida Paradise, thinking, praying, meditating, but still doing the things I love while the President readies the nation for war is surreal. All I can do is offer my prayers for those that carry the load now. God bless this Nation and all of you Cpl Doug (USMCR)
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