Question:
Dear e I cant say that am that worried about what people will read about me here in this group. I have used my own e.mail for a long time, because of the fact that I didnt know how to get an asarianaccount. There has been other embarassing times in my life worse then this. But I remember a couple of years ago when I went to a grownup school to get my degrees, and at one point this younger woman that had been a friend of my youngest sister stod up in class and told everyone about my f*th*rs abuse on her. That was hurting, felt very ashamed and wanted to dissapere from the planet.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Nandina. I forgot to ask you (and anyone else who’s reading) the questions I asked Jennifer. You said that you shared almost everything you posted here with your T. I was wondering if that was bc you restricted what you posted here or if you shared everything going on in your life with your T. Are there any things that you’d rather not reveal to your T? Are there any things that you’d rather reveal later (i.e., you control the timing of when you reveal them)? Do you ever post about those things here? How worried are you about this being a public forum (where anyone with a modem can read)? TIA for any replies, e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
I wanted to clarify something. That everything had to be shared, because the trauma and PTSD effected just about every area of my life. I hadn’t thought of it that way. I think that’s true.
I think it’s true that trauma often affects many things. I don’t think it’s true that everything *has* to be shared, in therapy or elsewhere. In fact, I think that can symbolically re-create some abuse and reinforce the idea that the client has no choice about what aspects of her/his life to share and which to keep private. I’m sorry if my ambiguous wording confused anyone. e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
It was really great to read your post about your T cuz it’s like…..that’s exactly how it is with me! Words get messed up in my head alot and when I try to write what it is like for me or how I feel it just doesn’t come out to good. It’s like I said b4..I stumble over my words. Reading your words about how it is with your T made me feel good. 
) I’ve also been seeing my T for 10 years (or is it 11? I lose track) and I too was in crisis when I started with her. I trust her and feel that she too must trust me cuz she also shares personnel things about her life with me. I feel when "trust" is there it is so much easier to share the secrets. I have a "other" inside that doesn’t so easily trust tho. She still keeps secrets but I figure in time when she is ready she will share her secrets too. I hope. Stormy * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Since a lack of trust in others is a major problem that goes with DID, I couldn’t do therapy with secrets. That sort of defeats the whole program.
I think it would be easier to do therapy if you trusted your T a lot like you seem to. However, I don’t think that’s realistic for many ppl. I know it’s not for me. It seems to me that Ts who work with ppl who’ve experienced a lot of trauma should expect that some clients won’t trust them. Others will trust them a little bit or about some things. Others will trust them a lot (or at least some alters will.) To me, learning to trust ppl (and when, with what, and how much) seems like a big part of the work many ppl do in therapy. I’m glad that it wasn’t nearly as big an issue for you as it is for some other ppl. 
I was in crisis when I found my current t, so it wasn’t really possible for me to keep secrets because everyone was blabbing. We are very fortunate to have found a t who had experience with other survivors. She understood the need to establish a standard of safety and trust in our relationship. She disclosed much of her own life experience and how she came to work with survivors. It made me feel like she trusted me with details of her personal life, so I could trust her with mine. She also understood that she was not always speaking to an adult, but treated all with respect and answered some of our bizarre questions about what "normal" relationships might include.. I have been with this t for nearly 10 years. I credit her with saving my life and helping me rebuild a functional core who can manage rl relationships.
It sounds like you’ve done a lot of good work together. Congrats. She know everything I know and may understand it better than I do. I still have problems trusting women, but I now believe it is possible for me to have relationships with women that are not destructive to me.
That sounds like a lot of progress. Congrats. :) I reveal much less here than I once did because I have received nasty, vicious and threatening private responses.
Ouch! That’s awful. 
:P~~~ The worst person does not seem to be an asd regular anymore,
I’m glad. :) However, it sounds like some ppl who sent you some of the responses are still here. :P~~ however, some asd’ers who seem very nice publicly are not the same in private. Some resent public speaking about healing issues because they are afraid to look at their own issues.
I’m sorry that you were hurt. I do think that some issues are difficult for many ppl to talk about. I am not in an unsafe place at this time, so I don’t worry about the safety of posting and I live with two large men, so I don’t worry about someone coming to my home. I think it would be foolish to share too much here if you feel ashamed and vulnerable about that material. It makes it easier for someone new to abuse you.
I’ve been hurt by sharing stuff here. Usually it was partly bc of my triggers. Sometimes I think it was mostly bc of my triggers. So I think that you’re right: if someone feels very vulnerable about something, it may not be wise to share it here. Usually it’s helpful ime. But not always. (Ditto for sharing stuff in therapy or with friends or anywhere else, ime.) I’d like to find a way to make it always safe to share here but I haven’t figured anything out. It was hard for me to learn not to reveal everything to everyone, but I have come a long way.
That’s a useful skill. Too bad you got hurt learning. :P~~ Hope this is helpful to you, Nandina
Thanks, Nandina. e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
Hi e, What an interesting thread. I was especially interested in Nandina’s response. (Really good post, Nandina) When she mentions lack of trust being a major problem, I completely agree, except I have had that problem with my own T. I recently have had problems of a s*x*al nature, and felt too embarrassed or shy to bring it up to the T. I felt that that part of my life was private and personal, and should not be aired with the T or anyone else. Well, it turned into a fiasco, and when I finally turned to the T for help, he said to me, that I had no personal life if it had anything to do with trauma. That everything had to be shared, because the trauma and PTSD effected just about every area of my life. I hadn’t thought of it that way. I have been seeing this T for about 10 years, yet because he is male, there are certain things that I have not shared with him. I think if I had a female T, things might’ve been different. But, I now do understand the need to be open with him. It’s still embarrassing as h*ll, but I’ve been trying. As far as being open and honest here at asd, it is something I would really like to do. I’ve been afraid because I don’t know "if it’s the thing to do", because I’ve never seen certain topics aired here before. Unlike Nandina, I have no problem keeping things "secret". I have a friend who once said, "Nahanton probably wouldn’t tell you the color of the sweater she is wearing." That’s conditioning that still hasn’t worn off, athough I’m working on that. Just being able to "speak" here helps me (and I hope others). I don’t worry about this being a public forum. I don’t think that there is anything that I say here that would cause me a problem (except with some of the other asders, perhaps.) I’ve said this before, I think that this ng is invaluable. Many times it helps me formulate my thinking before seeing the T, or frequently I read a post from someone else that really excites me because it’s something that I’ve never thought of. Just my thoughts, Nahanton
Response:
Dear Mare, I have been trying to follow your thread here, and I would like to say something about my thoughts about privacy. I have been withholding so many inner things in my life, without sharing and talking about it to anyone, being suspicious and not trusting. What I have noticed is that when I talk about something that has hurt me a lot in the past, it looses its power over me, it doesnt feel so bad anymore. It’s not like that big secret stone in my stomach anymore, I can look at what I have been talking about and see; "So this is the way it was, ok." It doesn’t feel so threatening anymore. But I still think it should be up to us and not anyone else when and where we talk about things. What you resist, persists. Bluebell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all who are following this thread: I really agree with this statement,e, which you make below…about recreation of ab*se in the therapy setting. Privacy is the most luxurious aspect of my life, and a part of my life that I have worked hard to attain. I think I began to deepen my "flimsy" trust in my T when he said "…if and when you are ready to share…" "…at some point you may want to discuss…" "…if "x" is an issue…" Everything about his manner and approach is so respectful of me and my -self- that I have finally realized that *I* control pacing and disclosure. *I* am powerful in that office, and hence outside that office. OTOH, there are some times when some younger one will want him to lead…we tripped around that for a time until we learned we could say…"…and we need you to help us talk about such and such…" "…we need to have you be in charge" Rules change depending upon who is there. But privacy and respect do not. in healing, mare I wanted to clarify something. That everything had to be shared, because the trauma and PTSD effected just about every area of my life. I hadn’t thought of it that way. I think that’s true. I think it’s true that trauma often affects many things. I don’t think it’s true that everything *has* to be shared, in therapy or elsewhere. In fact, I think that can symbolically re-create some abuse and reinforce the idea that the client has no choice about what aspects of her/his life to share and which to keep private. I’m sorry if my ambiguous wording confused anyone. e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole. I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!" It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love. And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy". Stormy * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Dear Lionhart That is what I feel about MEN Bluebell
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Niniane wrote in conversation with e: At the moment we are trying to sit next to female t on a couch without freaking. Last week it gave us nightmares about the female perp. It’s prolly gonna take a few more years to let other females into our life. [...] I feel extremly fortunate to have found a t who could really help me. I wanted to make it clear that none of it was easy. I am almost 50 years old and I still don’t relate well to other women. Have no __close__ female friends in real life. That is a great sadness for me. Women are an issue for me too. I’ve pretty much never had women friends. Women I was attracted to tended to be cold and withdrawn. I’m becoming aware that I trust women even *less* than I trust men. I also have s*x*al abuse isssues related to women. In the last two years I’ve begun to develop a few friendships with women. And I find I get triggered really easiliy. In fact, I’ve become aware that I switch a lot. Women were a big reason I came to this ng. It seems to come down to looking for the nurturing I didn’t get as a child, and despising/fearing anyone who would like to nurture me. And also s*x*alizing any feelings I do have. Anybody want to talk about this issue? I so much want to be loved, cherished, nurtured by a woman. In some healthy way, whatever that is. And I so much fear it. Lionheart — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear.
I think it’s hard to find a mom as an adult. Lots of Ts (esp but not exclusively women) seem to have a very strong tendency to try to do that, though. If you want that, maybe you could interview some Ts. I found *lots* of them seemed like that when I interviewed. I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole.
Hmmm. I think lots of ppl have that feeling. That they can’t be whole without someone else – an SO, a parent, a child. Can you describe how they’d make you whole, e.g., is it that you’re missing some aspect of yourself that they have or will they develop things in you (what?) or how will they make you whole? I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!"
Approach-avoidance conflicts are painful. I think this is an esp painful one for some ppl. :( Do you do ok with women who aren’t caretakers? How would you feel about being friends with women who don’t seem maternal and are more "buddies" or equals? It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love.
I don’t think you can experience a mother’s love from anyone but your mother. Not really. I’m sorry that you didn’t get to experience that. However, it doesn’t sound like the problem with other women is that you aren’t good enough (some have tried to get close to you, right?; why would they do that if you aren’t good enough?) or that you aren’t allowed (it sounds like you’ve chosen not to). And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy".
I dunno, Stormy. It seems somewhat common among ppl who’ve posted here. Not everyone feels that way, esp as an adult, but many do. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
p/m This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I think it’s hard to find a mom as an adult. Lots of Ts (esp but not exclusively women) seem to have a very strong tendency to try to do that, though. If you want that, maybe you could interview some Ts. I found *lots* of them seemed like that when I interviewed.
Ewwwwwwwwwwww, Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. The idea of a mothering T just grosses me out. Hmmmm. Hmmmm. It’s enough to make ya think. Lionheart <shivering – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole. Hmmm. I think lots of ppl have that feeling. That they can’t be whole without someone else – an SO, a parent, a child. Can you describe how they’d make you whole, e.g., is it that you’re missing some aspect of yourself that they have or will they develop things in you (what?) or how will they make you whole? I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!" Approach-avoidance conflicts are painful. I think this is an esp painful one for some ppl. :( Do you do ok with women who aren’t caretakers? How would you feel about being friends with women who don’t seem maternal and are more "buddies" or equals? It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love. I don’t think you can experience a mother’s love from anyone but your mother. Not really. I’m sorry that you didn’t get to experience that. However, it doesn’t sound like the problem with other women is that you aren’t good enough (some have tried to get close to you, right?; why would they do that if you aren’t good enough?) or that you aren’t allowed (it sounds like you’ve chosen not to). And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy". I dunno, Stormy. It seems somewhat common among ppl who’ve posted here. Not everyone feels that way, esp as an adult, but many do. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
– For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole. I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!" It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love. And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy".
Me too <sigh I didn’t write that because I’m so ashamed of it. And I’m older than you. And sometimes it feelslife is not worth living if I can’t getthat kind of love. And it’s really hard to be able to *give* love when you’re just an aching heart wanting to *be* loved. Take care. Thanks for talking about it. Lionheart Stormy * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
– For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
Hi Stormy, This is pretty much where I have been. My current t is the most nurturing female I’ve ever had in my life. Many insiders want her to be "mommy", but we fight to keep her from becoming emotional mommy, that would be way to dangerous. We’d probably have to stop seeing her. Trying to reach a deeper level of trust with her in the body and mind. Physical closeness still freaks us out. I’m close to 50. That basic need for a mom is hard to fill when you don’t get it as a child. Nandina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole. I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!" It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love. And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy". Stormy * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nandina wrote in conversation with e: At the moment we are trying to sit next to female t on a couch without freaking. Last week it gave us nightmares about the female perp. It’s prolly gonna take a few more years to let other females into our life. [...] I feel extremly fortunate to have found a t who could really help me. I wanted to make it clear that none of it was easy. I am almost 50 years old and I still don’t relate well to other women. Have no __close__ female friends in real life. That is a great sadness for me. Women are an issue for me too. I’ve pretty much never had women friends. Women I was attracted to tended to be cold and withdrawn. I’m becoming aware that I trust women even *less* than I trust men. I also have s*x*al abuse isssues related to women.
I usually find it easier to make friends with men than women. That is, if there are several men as well as women in a group, I’ll probably find it much easier to talk to or eventually be friends with the men. However, I’ve gone through periods in my life where most of my friends were women. (E.g., work situations.) Oddly, most of my current friends that I knew in high school are women even though I was much closer to and spent more time with the men at the time. I’m not good at staying in touch with ppl and a couple of the women have been good about keeping in touch with most of the women and some of the men. I don’t think I trust anyone until I’ve known them a very long time. I guess when I know someone well, it’s easier to trust them bc I know what I can trust them with. (If that makes sense.) And I don’t think I’m a "close" kind of person. In the last two years I’ve begun to develop a few friendships with women. And I find I get triggered really easiliy. In fact, I’ve become aware that I switch a lot. Women were a big reason I came to this ng. It seems to come down to looking for the nurturing I didn’t get as a child, and despising/fearing anyone who would like to nurture me. And also s*x*alizing any feelings I do have.
Maybe that’s why I can be friends with women. I *don’t* want them to nurture me. I’m usually friends with more independent ppl – women and men. I pretty much need to have ppl who are neither dependent or caretakers. Has posting here helped? In what ways? Has it made things more difficult? In what ways? Anybody want to talk about this issue? I so much want to be loved, cherished, nurtured by a woman. In some healthy way, whatever that is. And I so much fear it.
Sorry, Lionheart. I was with you til the end. I don’t want to be loved, cherished, or nurtured by anyone. How kinky. 
But I do like having other kinds of relationships with ppl. e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I think it’s hard to find a mom as an adult. Lots of Ts (esp but not exclusively women) seem to have a very strong tendency to try to do that, though. If you want that, maybe you could interview some Ts. I found *lots* of them seemed like that when I interviewed.
My T is a very caring person but there are boundries that keeps it from leaning over to the "mothering" T. And for this I am glad because I am there for help in getting my life in some kind of order and I need her to be a T more than I need a mother right now. If I didn’t feel that the work I do in my sessions with her weren’t so important I’d probably be wishing and pr*ying for her to be my mom tho. If she did turn into a mothering T I know I’d have to quit working with her cuz then everything would change and I would want her to take care of me instead of her helping me learn to take care of myself. I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole. Hmmm. I think lots of ppl have that feeling. That they can’t be whole without someone else – an SO, a parent, a child. Can you describe how they’d make you whole, e.g., is it that you’re missing some aspect of yourself that they have or will they develop things in you (what?) or how will they make you whole?
That’s what gets confusing for me. I don’t know _how_ having a mother will make me feel whole. I just know that the feeling of not being whole is alive and kicking in me all the time. Maybe it’s not even a feeling of "not being whole". Maybe it’s more of a feeling that there is an empty space inside of me that only a mother can fill….and that empty space hurts alot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!" Approach-avoidance conflicts are painful. I think this is an esp painful one for some ppl. :( Do you do ok with women who aren’t caretakers? How would you feel about being friends with women who don’t seem maternal and are more "buddies" or equals?
I don’t do ok with women or men. I have no friends. I don’t trust easily and get very uncomfortable around people. When I was in the hospital I was told I have a way of drawing people to me and making friends. But my problem is I make friends but then when it feels like they are getting to close to me or I am getting to close to them I run for the hills and stop contact. It’s something I am working on changing. I consider myself a lonely loner. ) I had this neighbor once, a little old lady, who once said I was stuck up because I wasn’t "friendly". It made me laugh. I wish my only problem was that I am stuck up! I just don’t know how to relate to people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love. I don’t think you can experience a mother’s love from anyone but your mother. Not really. I’m sorry that you didn’t get to experience that. However, it doesn’t sound like the problem with other women is that you aren’t good enough (some have tried to get close to you, right?; why would they do that if you aren’t good enough?) or that you aren’t allowed (it sounds like you’ve chosen not to).
Exactly. I have chosen not to. I know that it’s old messages telling me I’m not good enough or allowed. I think I tend to beleive I’m not good enough so that I don’t have to deal with the confusion or fear of having someone get close to me or care about me. My beliefs keep a protective wall around me. I figure that if I keep people away from caring about me or getting to close to me then it won’t hurt so much when they end up hurting me. Old messages are hard to erase sometimes. ( Stormy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy". I dunno, Stormy. It seems somewhat common among ppl who’ve posted here. Not everyone feels that way, esp as an adult, but many do. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail: message
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Response:
Whew. Took some hunting to find this original post (been fascinated with the responses to this whole thread, but really wanted to reply to this one) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Niniane wrote in conversation with e: At the moment we are trying to sit next to female t on a couch without freaking. Last week it gave us nightmares about the female perp. It’s prolly gonna take a few more years to let other females into our life. [...] I feel extremly fortunate to have found a t who could really help me. I wanted to make it clear that none of it was easy. I am almost 50 years old and I still don’t relate well to other women. Have no __close__ female friends in real life. That is a great sadness for me. Women are an issue for me too. I’ve pretty much never had women friends. Women I was attracted to tended to be cold and withdrawn. I’m becoming aware that I trust women even *less* than I trust men. I also have s*x*al abuse isssues related to women. In the last two years I’ve begun to develop a few friendships with women. And I find I get triggered really easiliy. In fact, I’ve become aware that I switch a lot. Women were a big reason I came to this ng. It seems to come down to looking for the nurturing I didn’t get as a child, and despising/fearing anyone who would like to nurture me. And also s*x*alizing any feelings I do have.
The search for missing nuturing is primary here too.. the s*x*alizing isn’t, which is weird cuz we’re attracted to women. In fact, the two get confused cuz they can’t be put together.. well like lots of folks caring and s*x can’t be combined. I can be friends w men or women, tho most of the men are gay. Not sure it’s the women that are the issue, but most assuredly the nuturing and hope/repulsion related to it.. Anybody want to talk about this issue? I so much want to be loved, cherished, nurtured by a woman. In some healthy way, whatever that is. And I so much fear it. Lionheart
Guess for us it comes to not believing it is possible. Just as the walls come down, the drawbridge open… the face of love before me will turn into a monster. That’s the fear.. sometimes a monster, sometimes the fear is she will go away.. sometimes that she will be merely an ice sculpture.. no beating heart, no warm embrace. So I set up this bizarre maze so no one can get close; if you can talk w me abt things that don’t matter, then you don’t matter, but talking abt things that do matter means the possibility of knowing the horrible painful mess of us, and that’s not permitted either… approach/avoidance.. know that dance well.. Alice et al Someonelse " I am a poster girl with no poster I am 32 flavors and then some…" Ani Difranco
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p/e – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I think it’s hard to find a mom as an adult. Lots of Ts (esp but not exclusively women) seem to have a very strong tendency to try to do that, though. If you want that, maybe you could interview some Ts. I found *lots* of them seemed like that when I interviewed. Ewwwwwwwwwwww, Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. The idea of a mothering T just grosses me out.
LOL. That’s pretty similar to my reaction: "Oh, yuck! Why don’t you adopt a kid if you want one so badly?" I think it was one reason I ended up with a male T (over half of the female Ts seemed that way to me). I really *hate* the smothering/caring bit, whether from males or females. Hmmmm. Hmmmm. It’s enough to make ya think.
Yeah, I know. But blech! Maybe nausea and the "terror freeze" (including a brain freeze) save us from worse fates (e.g., thinking about it), huh? <g Lionheart <shivering
Yeah. The only good part was that those Ts were easy to cross off my list even though I usually have a very hard time deciding about anything. <g e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
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We are all different depending on a lot of things I guess. People get very easily attracted to me, Sometimes I play games with people, not on purpose, it just happens. Most people I meet like me., both men and women.. but when I look back I can see very few people in my life I wanted around me. I dont tell people my story the way I do here, I can be very outgoing and friendly… but if they come to close, …. I leave people behind me as and old shoe.. Just leave them and forgett about them.. that makes me sad to write… I dont want a mom, got one and she didnt do much for me as a child.. But to be honest…sometimes if I look at a movie and see a f*th*r being loving to the family, I break down and cry… Bluebell
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nandina wrote in conversation with e: At the moment we are trying to sit next to female t on a couch without freaking. Last week it gave us nightmares about the female perp. It’s prolly gonna take a few more years to let other females into our life. [...] I feel extremly fortunate to have found a t who could really help me. I wanted to make it clear that none of it was easy. I am almost 50 years old and I still don’t relate well to other women. Have no __close__ female friends in real life. That is a great sadness for me. Women are an issue for me too. I’ve pretty much never had women friends. Women I was attracted to tended to be cold and withdrawn. I’m becoming aware that I trust women even *less* than I trust men. I also have s*x*al abuse isssues related to women. I usually find it easier to make friends with men than women. That is, if there are several men as well as women in a group, I’ll probably find it much easier to talk to or eventually be friends with the men. However, I’ve gone through periods in my life where most of my friends were women. (E.g., work situations.) Oddly, most of my current friends that I knew in high school are women even though I was much closer to and spent more time with the men at the time. I’m not good at staying in touch with ppl and a couple of the women have been good about keeping in touch with most of the women and some of the men. I don’t think I trust anyone until I’ve known them a very long time. I guess when I know someone well, it’s easier to trust them bc I know what I can trust them with. (If that makes sense.) And I don’t think I’m a "close" kind of person. In the last two years I’ve begun to develop a few friendships with women. And I find I get triggered really easiliy. In fact, I’ve become aware that I switch a lot. Women were a big reason I came to this ng. It seems to come down to looking for the nurturing I didn’t get as a child, and despising/fearing anyone who would like to nurture me. And also s*x*alizing any feelings I do have. Maybe that’s why I can be friends with women. I *don’t* want them to nurture me. I’m usually friends with more independent ppl – women and men. I pretty much need to have ppl who are neither dependent or caretakers. Has posting here helped? In what ways? Has it made things more difficult? In what ways? Anybody want to talk about this issue? I so much want to be loved, cherished, nurtured by a woman. In some healthy way, whatever that is. And I so much fear it. Sorry, Lionheart. I was with you til the end. I don’t want to be loved, cherished, or nurtured by anyone. How kinky. But I do like having other kinds of relationships with ppl. e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
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I have a insider too that would do anything to have our T be our mom. She’s a little and feels having our T be our mom would solve *everything*. I try to explain to her that we need our T to be a "helping" person instead of a mothering person and that there are boundries that are there to help us but she doesn’t understand this. She sees the boundries as a punishment. Stormy * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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[...] The few times my T has done that it felt intrusive to me. It felt like he was telling me something completely inappropriate to our relationship. It kinda felt like the "good cop/bad cop" gig where they (e.g., perps, Ts) get you to trust them by revealing insignificant (or possibly untrue) personal info then use that to get info to hurt you or get you to confess to something even if you didn’t do it, or agree to do something, etc.
I’m trying to imagine a T possessing such an agenda and manipulating a client like this. Intense mind f*ck if they do. How do other ppl here feel about T disclosures of personal info?
I feel self-disclosure by a T is something that a T needs to spend time considering before actually doing. [...] Don’t get me wrong. I think contracts can help some ppl.
Me too. I also think that they can hurt some ppl and am not sure why Ts seem to use them without thinking long and hard about their implications in a given situation.
I agree, esp if… * the contract is given to the client (not cooperatively devised) – authoritative dictating, disrespectful, client is one-down. * the contract is given as an ultimatum – ‘do this or else terminate’ types of contracts, motivation on the part of client may not be driven by self-definition but by T-definition. * when elements of the contract are unrealistic for the client to meet setting up failure. I’ve never read anything that discusses their downsides. Weird.
I think I just mentioned several downsides. Whatcha think? Sierra of TN
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[...] I don’t think you can experience a mother’s love from anyone but your mother. Not really.
I agree. I think surrogates are maybe as close as one can get to none at all… though it’s kind of a double-edged sword. Surrogates, while nurturing, also remind of the deep absence of the real thing. I find grieving, inevitable. Sierra of TN
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Hello, Stormy and e and Sierra, I have a lot of these same feelings and don’t know what to do about them. People m or f are not safe, and I don’t have friends. there are those who consider me a friend, I know, but they have no idea of who I am or anything much about me. I guess they like the surface okay. I don’t trust anyone with what is inside. I have started to be able to talk with my t about some things. This has taken a long time. Sometimes he feels like a parent to me, and I know that he cares about me. This is scary, to feel this way. Then I worry that something will happen to him and he will be gone. It all gets very confusing, wanting to maybe trust someone, but being afraid to do that. I don’t know if I could ever get to where I would want someone to "m*ther" me. I don’t even let my SO know too much or get too close. If he threatens to, I run. Fast. Not safe. The big three fears for me are wom*n, m*n, and docs. Doesn’t leave a lot of chances to be friends, does it? The people here at asd are my only friends. Sadly, Jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This issue is the hardest for me because it is the strongest…and has been for years and years. For as long as I can remember I have been searching for a mom. Someone who could love me and nurture me like a mother should. I looked for a "mom" in neighbors, teachers, librarians, even strangers. The search has led to alot of heartache, pain, and fear. I think it’s hard to find a mom as an adult. Lots of Ts (esp but not exclusively women) seem to have a very strong tendency to try to do that, though. If you want that, maybe you could interview some Ts. I found *lots* of them seemed like that when I interviewed. My T is a very caring person but there are boundries that keeps it from leaning over to the "mothering" T. And for this I am glad because I am there for help in getting my life in some kind of order and I need her to be a T more than I need a mother right now. If I didn’t feel that the work I do in my sessions with her weren’t so important I’d probably be wishing and pr*ying for her to be my mom tho. If she did turn into a mothering T I know I’d have to quit working with her cuz then everything would change and I would want her to take care of me instead of her helping me learn to take care of myself. I dream about having a new mom (one that doesn’t hurt me) and I feel I _have_ to have a mom or I can’t really be whole. Hmmm. I think lots of ppl have that feeling. That they can’t be whole without someone else – an SO, a parent, a child. Can you describe how they’d make you whole, e.g., is it that you’re missing some aspect of yourself that they have or will they develop things in you (what?) or how will they make you whole? That’s what gets confusing for me. I don’t know _how_ having a mother will make me feel whole. I just know that the feeling of not being whole is alive and kicking in me all the time. Maybe it’s not even a feeling of "not being whole". Maybe it’s more of a feeling that there is an empty space inside of me that only a mother can fill….and that empty space hurts alot. I have this deep deep longing to have a mom who will teach me things, love me, hold me close when I’m scared, show me that love doesn’t have to equal pain, tuck me into bed and chase away all the bad dreams….a mom who just wants to be with me. But everytime it seems like there is some woman that is getting close to me or cares about me I get scared and want to pull away and run far far away. The fear makes me want to scream at them "I don’t need you!" Approach-avoidance conflicts are painful. I think this is an esp painful one for some ppl. :( Do you do ok with women who aren’t caretakers? How would you feel about being friends with women who don’t seem maternal and are more "buddies" or equals? I don’t do ok with women or men. I have no friends. I don’t trust easily and get very uncomfortable around people. When I was in the hospital I was told I have a way of drawing people to me and making friends. But my problem is I make friends but then when it feels like they are getting to close to me or I am getting to close to them I run for the hills and stop contact. It’s something I am working on changing. I consider myself a lonely loner. ) I had this neighbor once, a little old lady, who once said I was stuck up because I wasn’t "friendly". It made me laugh. I wish my only problem was that I am stuck up! I just don’t know how to relate to people. It’s all confusing to me because I do want a mother very badly but at the same time I am very very afraid of someone getting close enough to be a mother to me. It all makes me end up feeling that I am not good enough, that I am not allowed, that I will go thru my whole life longing for a mother but never experiencing what every child should feel…a mothers love. I don’t think you can experience a mother’s love from anyone but your mother. Not really. I’m sorry that you didn’t get to experience that. However, it doesn’t sound like the problem with other women is that you aren’t good enough (some have tried to get close to you, right?; why would they do that if you aren’t good enough?) or that you aren’t allowed (it sounds like you’ve chosen not to). Exactly. I have chosen not to. I know that it’s old messages telling me I’m not good enough or allowed. I think I tend to beleive I’m not good enough so that I don’t have to deal with the confusion or fear of having someone get close to me or care about me. My beliefs keep a protective wall around me. I figure that if I keep people away from caring about me or getting to close to me then it won’t hurt so much when they end up hurting me. Old messages are hard to erase sometimes. ( Stormy And this whole thing sometimes makes me feel embarressed because I am almost 40 years old and still have the longings and feelings of a child who wants a "mommy". I dunno, Stormy. It seems somewhat common among ppl who’ve posted here. Not everyone feels that way, esp as an adult, but many do. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail: message * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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