Question:
I feel disoriented by all that I’ve been reading. This is so unlike a flesh and blood group with the omnipresent clock, bored therapist, and a room full of people who aren’t sure if they really want to be there. I feel as overstimulated as a country dog in town. This is the most socialization I’ve had in years. I want to fix everyone, nobody deserves this pain. I guess its a middle child thing, I’ve done it all my life and it has been a constant issue with my SO. I’m better than I used to be. It is so hard to hear the pain and do nothing about it. It is so hard to allow emotions to stand on their own, unfixable, nothing to be done about. I remember at one point in the blur screaming at her that she had to have at least a tiny crack that hope might exist at some possible point in the far future to live. SCREAMING the answer to her pain while she cried softly, feeling utterly alone. When this was not enough, and in utter madness, I was a razor’s edge from picking up the 30-30 and ending her pain, and mine. Funny how groups shake stuff together in new patterns. Bill’s marvelous hookers started it today. My paternal Great Grandmother was full blood Cherokee, Eastern Band. She and my maternal G.G.M ran a brothel. My Dad was a favorite there and was given the nickname "Babe" by the women as a child. Lots of crazy dynamics going on, thieves, bootlegging, a crroked mayor….. All in the family. When I was four and visiting my Grandmother she took me to the slaughter house. I had been asking at dinner "where does this come from?" pointing to the meat on the table. What I meant to ask, I think, is "what kind of animal was this?". Her answer was "I’ll show you". I remember the smells, and dark corners, some kind of trenches filled with red, and then in clear relief the picture I can still see so clearly. A steer coming up a ramp to a man, an incredible BOOM and the steers legs folding like paper and hitting the floor like an earthquake. I don’t remember anything else. How does this tie together? For some paradoxical reason my Mom used to always tell me not to let anything suffer. It was drilled into my head. When I was ten I had two gerbils. One bit me. A pinprick. Of course my Mom insisted that we go to the E.R. and to bring them along. In childhood wisdom I knew that this meant that they would probably be medically tortured. I took them out back, and while crying, crushed them with a large rock. Don’t let anything suffer. She freaked, they threatened to give me rabies shots prophylactically as they had no liitle brains to examine. I knew I was right. Now I feel the connections among wanting to fix others, my medical abuse, my research experiences, and my animism, and this NG.I slaughtered my last turkey today. Over the years it has been my payback. If I raise my own meat animals there are that many less who will not be cared for properly, raised lovingly, and killed in a wakan manner. I smudged myself and knives with holy sage and cedar smoke. I circled the coop in a clockwise manner with the smudge. I prayed and asked the blessings of all things and my ancestors. I apologized to the turkey and asked her forgiveness and understanding. But, I went numb when I killed her, no tears, just another death in a long line of too many. I am done with payback of this sort therefore I can no longer eat meat. This isn’t to say that vegetables have no feeling, I think all things have feeling, they just aren’t connected to my PTSD. Convenient. So anyway, back to the top. I wish I could fix you all, I can’t fix you and I can’t put you out of your pain. I can only read what you write and feel, just feel. Thank you for being here, I hope to be able to respond individually but I’m feeling overload right now. Peace and Joy, Don
Response:
Don wrote in message: >I feel disoriented by all that I’ve been reading. This is so unlike a >flesh and blood group with the omnipresent clock, bored therapist, and >a room full of people who aren’t sure if they really want to be there. >I feel as overstimulated as a country dog in town. This is the most >socialization I’ve had in years.
It takes a lot of energy, for me, to read this list. Sometimes I think it’s because it gets just a little too close, is a little too real, says a little too much… and these are all things I don’t really want to deal with. I know that I should, and I really want to move forward out of this, and that’s why I am here. >I want to fix everyone, nobody deserves this pain.
Yes, I know what you mean. >It is so hard to hear the pain and do nothing about it. It >is so hard to allow emotions to stand on their own, unfixable, nothing >to be done about.
Ahh, but you can, and you do, and you are doing something about it. Everytime you post a response… everytime you share with us some of your story, you are helping. Sometimes that’s just a one-line ‘i’m here and i’m listening’ and then I know I am not alone. I am homebound – do you know how key that is for me? how vital? >I remember at one point in the blur screaming at her >that she had to have at least a tiny crack that hope might exist at >some possible point in the far future to live. SCREAMING the answer to >her pain while she cried softly, feeling utterly alone. When this was >not enough, and in utter madness, I was a razor’s edge from picking up >the 30-30 and ending her pain, and mine.
The important thing here is that you truly did want to help – your methods may not have been appropriate, but your intent was good. Now, you might want to find other options, other ways of ‘helping.’ Sometimes that means sitting back and letting someone go through their own process, holding their hand when they need it, but keeping quiet. I am not good at that either. >Now I feel the connections among wanting to fix others, my medical >abuse, my research experiences, and my animism, and this NG.I >slaughtered my last turkey today. Over the years it has been my >payback. If I raise my own meat animals there are that many less who >will not be cared for properly, raised lovingly, and killed in a wakan >manner.
do you mean wiccan? >I smudged myself and knives with holy sage and cedar smoke. I >circled the coop in a clockwise manner with the smudge. I prayed and >asked the blessings of all things and my ancestors. I apologized to >the turkey and asked her forgiveness and understanding. But, I went >numb when I killed her, no tears, just another death in a long line of >too many. I am done with payback of this sort therefore I can no >longer eat meat. This isn’t to say that vegetables have no feeling, I >think all things have feeling, they just aren’t connected to my PTSD. >Convenient.
Hey, whatever works for you now. Just keep eating, ok? >So anyway, back to the top. I wish I could fix you all, I can’t fix >you and I can’t put you out of your pain. I can only read what you >write and feel, just feel. Thank you for being here, I hope to be able >to respond individually but I’m feeling overload right now.
Thanks for your thoughtfulness Don 
blessings, Renee *what other people think of you is none of your business* *If you are going through hell, KEEP MOVING!* ______________________________
Response:
Boonie Dweller wrote in message >i remember this little bit of training i got in college, that helped me >greatly when i was in a helper role. >our teacher told us that yes, it is noble and satisfying >to help others… but always remember >1) you cannot help someone who is farther along on the path than you >are…and
With all due respect – really! – this is a load. I fully believe that we are all teachers and students all of our lives. There is always something new to learn, and often it is learned from children. >2) you can’t help *anyone* unless you look after YOU first.
I am not sure this is true either, or at least not to a point. Obviously, we all have done that all our lives.. and it worked until that last time. >we need to give ourselves permission to be aware of where our energy levels >are at… >then we need to give ourselves permission to fall back and "be selfish" >when we need to "refuel"
YES YES YES! Would that I could……. >if we don’t do this…we spit out insincere emptiness and "burn out". >but when we feel good, we have love to spare for others >i have found this to be true in my experience so far. >(again, i can only speak for my experience, it’s all i know) >it is "healthy" to be quiet and rest when we need to. >that’s what i meant when i said that support groups were "teams"… >chances are we won’t all run out of gas or wind down at the same time… >so it’s important to know that we all help when we can… >and when we can’t, we don’t. simple as that.
You are very wise, Boonie. Truly. I know you don’t have all the answers, but you have some of them. yes, you do. blessings, Renee *what other people think of you is none of your business* *If you are going through hell, KEEP MOVING!* ______________________________
Response:
WOW, Boonie, I am truly sorry that you took my post the way you did. I did not mean you any harm, and I was stating my *opinion* – we do not have to agree. I certainly do not think that my thoughts carry any more weight than anyone else’s, and I do not ‘linger here just to give advice’ – I am here because I need to be in the company of others who feel some of the same things I do, who are going through some of the same hurts and fears, so that we can share our stories, heal ourselves, and hopefully learn something from each other. I have a lot to learn from everyone, and yes, I have a lot to say. I try to offer encouragement, I try to help folks feel less alone …… It is what I want for myself, and so I try to give it away. I don’t understand why you find that offensive, but acknowledge and respect that you do, and I regret it. blessings, Renee *what other people think of you is none of your business* *If you are going through hell, KEEP MOVING!* ______________________________
Response:
Boonie Dweller wrote in message: >again, excuse me for expressing my viewpoint >it obviously triggered a few people… >i’ll try to refrain from expressing my viewpoint in the future >simply because this group does not feel safe to me in any way anymore.
Boonie, I am sorry you feel that way. When I read your other post today, I thought that you were feeling better about me and this NG. Guess I was wrong, and I probably made some assumptions. I don’t want to be a part of a group that agrees with me all the time, gives me lots of pets and tells me how wonderful I am. I want reality, honesty, truthfulness (kindly please, when possible). Life is messy – in here, sometimes it is messier. To me, that is as is should be. >and what i meant by it…since no one cared to fucking ask… >when this information was first given to me >it was offered in the context that >we are all at varying points along the path at various times… >we all take steps bacwards…and leaps forward
My journey has certainly not been a straight line, always forward – seems like it is always a little forward, fall back, and sometimes I get sidetracked altogether :/ >this teaching was given to us to help us learn our >own limits as helpers >because helpers often suffer burn out >because they feel like they have to >save em all.
I don’t think I have ever been good at noticing my limits – boundaries are a real problem for me. Anyone else? >i’m sorry that so many people applied what i was saying to themselves >as newbies/helpers…etc…whatever and were threatened by it
I don’t think threatened is the right word for how I felt – I disagreed with your teacher’s statements and expressed myself without thinking very much. Boonie, we all are entitled to our opinions and we don’t have to agree. >i *WAS* very threatened and triggered by Renees assault on it… >especially because she opened with "really!what a load!"
I thought I was talking about the teacher – I had *no way* of knowing that you’d think I was calling you a liar, or telling you that you were full of shit. I am very sorry that you took it that way, and that I was not clear or more objective in my viewpoint. I have apologized, tried to offer insight into my behaviors and rationale, and you are still angry. I am not sure what more I can do. Do you know what you need from me to move forward instead of sitting in this? >i guess that was really my issue… >that i felt accused of an untruth and attacked by her viewpoint >i had been feeling very attacked…pushed away >by her recently because >she seemed to be forceing herserlf to read my (trigger) posts… >then complaining to me about how raw they made her feel.
If you have problems with me, I’d like it if you would *tell me*, as you are doing now (though I’d prefer it if you’d speak to me directly, rather than talking to the NG about me). I thought this must have been building for some time, but didn’t know until now, and didn’t know what the problems were. I was not complaining to you or anyone else about how i felt – I was expressing my feelings. That might mean the same thing to you, but it does not to me. I feel free to express myself here, and regret that you do not, but please don’t project yourself onto me (not sure if you are) or make assumptions about how I am feeling. In many cases, you don’t know how I am feeling, unless I tell you. >i never forced anybody to read any of my posts >and i often posted simply because >my therapist recommended i talk about my strong feelings/thoughts >instead of internalize them… >and the funny thing was… that, before i felt attacked… >i did get something out of simply expressing myself here… >and if somebody read it and got something out of it >great…an added bonus… but that’s not why i posted here…
If you don’t want anyone to reply to your posts, you might consider telling us that. Venting is perfectly fine, but if you show me your guts in public, I am likely to respond to it unless I have been told not to. Seems to me that at least part of you wants a response, or you might have written/typed those words in a private journal. I failed my mindreading course – please tell me what you need and want, and I will try to do that if I can. >anyway…it’s obvious that i’ve done more harm than good
to who? to yourself? to the NG? to me? I am fine, the NG is fine (I think), and you are not responsible for me, the NG, or anyone in it. You are only responsible for yourself, not anyone else. >i get the fucking hint >so ultimatly…in the end… >i have learned that it is indeed WRONG >to express yourself verbally… >even when your careful to give warnings >and even when your careful not to attac others with your opinions.
I think there could be other lessons here too. Boonie, I don’t really understand what is going on here – seems like there is much more to this than what we have already exposed. You seem to have very strong feelings around all of this – I feel your pain, frustration, and anger, and wish there was something I could do. Everytime I try, it seems to get worse. What do you want the result of all this to be? Where do you want to go from here? If you want to keep talking about it, I am more than willing, but perhaps we should take it to private email. blessings, Renee *what other people think of you is none of your business* *If you are going through hell, KEEP MOVING!* ______________________________
Response:
Can we take a time out here and BREATHE. I have been watching this all escalate, I think it all started with the ‘That’s a Load’ comment from Renee that wasn’t even directed to you Boonie. That’s how anger works, it festers and grows and attaches itself to other undealt angers and grows some more. To Boonie & Renee…..I like and appreciate both of your writings, we all have something to offer here. I have found that the best lessons are usually the hardest ones too. I have been triggered a lot lately….not from the ng but in real life. When I sit with it, breathe and work thru it, as oppose to reacting and lashing out, these are the times that I utimately heal the most. This is REAL THICK STUFF for all of us, Can we all show patience for each other and some compassion and give each other some room not to be perfect. We’re all gonna fuck up, and we’re all gonna be wonderful, that’s life. I was just readin the other day that arguments bring us closer, So Boonie & Renee gotta be gettin pretty close by now. James "Try, there is no try. There is only do, or not do"–Yoda, Jedi Master
Response:
i think there really is a boundary issue here. i was grateful for Mairtins feedback…. it was very helpful…it was a "missing piece" for me… i have been biting my tongue and trying to get along for a long time now… i was getting ready to turn and walk away when Mairtin helped me realize that boundaries have been a big problem for me with Renee (notice i said it was "my problem") i’m at the point where i really have nothing to lose here… i already feel like i’m not supported here (because of this incident) it’s been more than just one comment… i’ve taken lots of deep breaths… and smiled and said things i didn’t really mean just to keep the whole group smiling and running smooth… because i feared rockin the boat for everyone, especially myself… what is wrong with me saying "this is my boundary line" and seeing if we can live with that… what would i be taking from Renee? it seems to be a matter of her piece of mind or mine… either i walk away and do without because i can’t stand having someones junior psychology crammed down my throat… or i speak up for once and say "you know what? that bugs the hell out of me, could you not do it my way?" i never asked her to stop talking to anyone else here… just me. you’d think i asked her to cut her right hand off… i’m just asking her to give me some space. what i’m saying here is that she’s triggering me with it it’s not bringing us closer together… it’s tearing at both of us… whether she realizes this or not. i apologize for my rage… but the reasoning (the trigger) behind it still remains i guess you feel i’m wrong to speak up about what bothers me? and try to make changes that might actually work for both of us…? am i suppose to be that perfect that i have to get along with *everyone* here just to be included here by some? is it like that for you in real life? do you smile in everybodies face? there is no one out there that pushes your buttons so much that you try hard to avoid them? gee…if you get along with others that well i’d say "what the hell are you doing in a group like this then?" i’m fully aware that after this probably no one will talk to me here anyway… whatever…that’s been a reality for me for years. if i have lost the respect of others by simply saying "this hurts/triggers me do i have to put up with it just to stay here?" then you are not the supportive group i thought you were. i mean, it is a support group for PTSD isn’t it? why is everyone expecting me to be miss sociability even in the face of someone who triggers me easily? maybe the lesson here is not "put up and shut up" maybe the lesson here is actually speaking up about what bothers me and seeing if others can find it in their hearts not to hate me for being this way. Renee, you said you wanted the truth… i’m giving it to you. thru no evil intent on your part i am upset by your responses to me… do you want to keep pushing this issue and trigger me right out of support that *was* helping me? or would you rather accept this as being my limitation and just let it go…and live in quiet harmony with me?
Response:
Hey BD Actually I prefer people who "Rock Tha Boat" cuz they make the most movement. NOPE….you don’t have to be perfect to be here…thank God cuz none of us would be here. Don’t leave B.D. we all need each other…..there will be better daze. Don’t forget to breathe……everybody James Success is determined by how determined your are to succeed–Lorenz
Response:
Boonie Dweller wrote:
i’m fully aware that after this probably no one will talk to me here anyway… Hey BD, Have you checked your yahoo mail today? I sent you a little note. Peace -G.
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