Question:
Ed I found this in an article from May 1999. It’s from an interview in May 1999 with a Dr. Voskuhl who was/is one of the researchers into Estriol: Where did you get the idea to use estriol for this? Dr. Voskuhl: The idea came from an interesting observation that clinicians and neurologists have known for quite some time. MS patients tell us they get better during pregnancy. There was a recent New England Journal of Medicine article showing a highly significant reduction in relapse rate in the third trimester of pregnancy as compared to before they were pregnant or after they were pregnant. So there was this clear evidence that something in the third trimester of pregnancy made MS better. We went on to ask why and what hormones are increased in the last trimester of pregnancy. The ones that go to a real high level at that time are progesterone and estriol. Estriol is slightly different than the estrogen of the ovulatory cycle. This particular estrogen is a weak estrogen, and it’s made by the fetal placental unit. So instead of being made by the ovary, estriol is made out of the fetal placental unit. Which is why you get such high levels when the baby is large in the last trimester. Based on this information, we gave the estriol, progesterone or placebo treatments to mice with experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis. It is the animal model most widely used for multiple sclerosis. What we found was that the mice receiving placebo and progesterone looked a lot alike. They were very sick and had a lot of paralysis. The estriol treated mice looked really good — significantly better. We did the experiment over 20 times, and the estriol always makes the mice a lot better with regard to less disability. I’ve got the full interview on: http://www.btinternet.com/~ms_pages/DrsQAEstriolandMS.html Take care, Paul All About MS – the latest MS News and Views http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ed hill wrote: > hi folks > Jeannette Wilson <mswil…@hotmail.com> writes: > >Paul Jones wrote: > >> Thanks Jeanette, > >> Can you give us a quick precy on the difference between > >> estriol and estradiol. What do they both do – does one or > >> both feminise men – are they both naturally occurring in men > >> – could I safely take a small dose of estriol without > >> feminising effects? Are they both anti-inflammatory only > >> (i.e. relapse preventers) or is the current thinking that > >> estriol can slow progression in SPMS? > paul, i’m going to strongly suggest that you consider progesterone instead of the > estrogens. > it’s your call, but everything i’ve learned in this area points to progesterone > being the better risk. > >Estriol, or "E-3 estrogen", is made in the placenta of pregnant women, > >and it’s what keeps her body’s immune system from attacking the fetus > >growing within her. I’ve seen *a* report that says it’s an > >anti-inflammatory, but to me that makes no sense at all – it has to > >somehow rein in the immune system, not just make the swelling go down. > >Estradiol, or "E-1 estrogen", is what causes feminization. It helps > >prevent osteoporosis, and helps prevent heart disease… but it also > >seems related to breast cancer. It also causes breast growth, by > >re-distributing body fat (progesterone causes the mammary glans to grow, > >and that makes the estrogen-created breasts have better shape and > >definition), and makes the skin more translucent, too. > in this progesterone helps. it downregulates MMP’s. MMP’s are instramental in the > tissue remodeling involved in tumor growth. i think most of the women who have > spoken up here about MS symptoms and their menstral cycle have discussed a marked > increase in symptoms during menstration. menstration is in part fascilitated by a > radical lowering of progesterone which signals MMP activation and tissue > "remodeling" that allows the egg to be flushed. > and odd as it may seem paul. if you can. get the progesterone as a capsule/powder. > you can then snort it. not into the openning of the nostril. but with a tube, far > up nearly between the eyes. that’s where your olfactory nerves are. this will > create very high CSF levels and relatively far lower serum levels of the hormone. > ie; more bang for the buck. > >I know that estradiol will cause the male body to react by signaling the > >primary hormone producers, the testes, to slow down, or even to stop > >altogether if enough estradiol is taken for long enough. I’m not sure > >if estriol will have a similar effect, but I’d expect it would, as it’s > >also a form of a hormone, and that’s what the body "sees" when deciding > >what level is right. :( I suppose a male *could* follow the same route > >as many M2F TGs, taking both estrogen and testosterone, but that would > >certainly end up having the testes shut down for good 
> >> I’m really thinking hard about taking small doses of > >> testosterone – how much would be safe? How much would I need > >> to get maximum effect? How much is Montel Williams taking? > i suspect montel’s double mastectomy was caused by a hormone regimen similar to the > one i tried a coupla years ago. ’cept his docs didn’t know about increasing the > ratio of CSF to SERUM levels with intranasal dosing. so he flooded his system and > got hit with gynomastia. > paul, i’ve taken both small and very large doses of testosterone and not found them > particularly helpful YMMV. > the things i’ve found most helpful were progesterone, insulin and forskolin. > (insulin guides the O-2A cell line toward oligodendrocytes rather than astrocytes) > >Sorry, those I don’t know. My serum testosterone levels, these days, > >are near zero, which is exactly where I want them (that helps, > >*greatly*, cut down on my libido. It’s been, hmm, almost three years > >since I last had that "urge", and frankly, I don’t miss it at all). > >Jeannette > >– > >I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me > >color and personality. > >"Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – > >http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/ > best regards > ed > — > ———————————————————————– > "The whole business of his life was in the plunder of his gaze…" > Daniel Halevy on Degas > | <include>ed’s 3d stuff | http://world.std.com/~ehill | 617-629-4625 |
Response:
Oh, Jeannette! Your sig line is wonderful. My kind of woman! Carmel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jeannette Wilson wrote: > Kathi Matthews wrote: > > In article <9j73kh$oa…@216.39.144.179>, Jeannette Wilson > > <mswil…@hotmail.com> writes: > > >Estriol, tho, > > >does seem to have helped, tho taking estriol has caused me to stop > > >taking estradiol – the doctors are unable to decide how much is a safe > > >dose, given the high level of estriol > > How is this related to estrogen? > > Kathi > Estriol is estrogen. It’s called "E-3" estrogen, it’s made in the > placenta of pregnant women. Does this help clear it up any? > Jeannette > — > I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me > color and personality. > "Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – > http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/
– "Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel. Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself!" Web sites at http://www.jaragun.com/ http://www.geocities.com/peripata/
Response:
In article <9j73kh$oa…@216.39.144.179>, Jeannette Wilson <mswil…@hotmail.com> writes: >Estriol, tho, >does seem to have helped, tho taking estriol has caused me to stop >taking estradiol – the doctors are unable to decide how much is a safe >dose, given the high level of estriol
How is this related to estrogen? Kathi
Response:
Kathi Matthews wrote: > In article <9j73kh$oa…@216.39.144.179>, Jeannette Wilson > <mswil…@hotmail.com> writes: > >Estriol, tho, > >does seem to have helped, tho taking estriol has caused me to stop > >taking estradiol – the doctors are unable to decide how much is a safe > >dose, given the high level of estriol > How is this related to estrogen? > Kathi
Estriol is estrogen. It’s called "E-3" estrogen, it’s made in the placenta of pregnant women. Does this help clear it up any? Jeannette — I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me color and personality. "Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/
Response:
hi jeannette hope you don’t mind my posting this. some may be of general interest and i saw no personal stuff herein. fyi: i’m looking at a combination of forskolin and doxycyclin snorted way up into the olfactory nerves qid. not sure on the dose for the doxy. but it’s been shown pretty effective in cutting mmp-9 and 3 production through non antibacterial means as has forskolin through cAMP production. using the combination i think is better than goin’ with a boatload of one. usually combinations of drugs that interfere at a transcriptional level act synergistically. and both of these prolly do us a lot of good even without the mmp downregulation. jeannette, if i remember right you were like kip in being uneffected by the forskolin in terms of k channel blocking. fyi; i wasn’t expecting anything of the sort when i noticed it and it took a few uses before i realised what was happening. enough others have tried it for me to dismiss suspicions of a placebo effect. at least to my own satisfaction. i suspect you would be uneffected by aminopyridine as well. but the mmp downregulation prolly has nothing to do with the k channel blocking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Jeannette Wilson wrote: > ed hill wrote: > > Paul Jones <Paul_Jo…@btinternet.com> writes: > > >Ed > > >I found this in an article from May 1999. It’s from an > > >interview in May 1999 with a Dr. Voskuhl who was/is one of > > >the researchers into Estriol: > > >Where did you get the idea to use estriol for this? > > not estriol, estrogen. > That was my idea. I’d read similar reports about estriol… Don’t have > the referrences handy right now, though. > > and i wasn’t looking for relief. this was an attempt at remyelination. i studied > > the literature on myelin growth and development and what the endocrinology signaling > > that growth was thought to be at that time. > > then i simulated the progression of hormones to try to force the cell line along > > that path. it helped some and i get a lot of relief from symptoms. but no > > significant changes in mobility. my pt said otherwise, but i’m still seated. > I got a little help in mobility. Now, a while after having taken both > estriol and progesterone, then just estriol, I can lift my right leg > enough to clear the bathtub’s edge when getting in to take a shower. > Mind you, after even a slightly warm shower, I cannot do the same upon > exiting, but hey, it’s an improvement. > > i suspect this would be a lot more helpful for women, but i’d hardly call it > > safe. pretty strong stuff and completely untested ‘cept for me. > "Safe"? It just mimics what happens to a woman during pregnancy. While > pregnant, not only is estriol produced (by the placenta), but > progesterone is also being made – it’s this that signals a woman’s body > to tell it that she shouldn’t ovulate.
as far as that goes yes. and that mimicing was intentional. i’m up on the endocrinology. but there were other things involved with that protocol. while it’s pretty reasonable to assume safety for myself. i can’t reasonably assume that for anyone else. > > i did see real improvment in memory and cognitive function in general. > > a lot of things you might associate with PTSD dissappeared. > Yup, that helped me, too, tho I’d suspect, Ed, that your effects were > also more in line with what I got when I started hormones (I saw similar > results when a good, male in both body and mindset, friend tried just a > small dose of estrogen for a week, to see what it was like). My results > were more limited, but still an improvement, instead of a steady and > rather rapid decline.
prolly right. and i was on very high doses too. i also noticed a change in my emotional "landscape". it was as if i suddenly had more feelers out there. sense of taste, smell and color perception were all richer. might just be an expectation being conjured up. but i doubt it. > > this study here is pretty interesting. i’m not sure what mechanism estriol limits > > immune reponse by. and MS is improved all the way through pregnancy, not just third > > trimester. > The one report I read said that estriol was an anti-inflammatory. > That’ll help, sure, but I can’t see that it’s the only effect it has. > Also, from what my neuro (who prescribes the estriol for me) said, the > estriol study in California is over, and, tho it was very small, it > seemed to have helped. I just wish a few more such studies, especially > with added progesterone, would get going.
agreed. it seems that they work together. although the real mechanisms are yet to be clearly unraveled. i just read through a tome on IVF and it’s got a lot of current info on the endocrinology and some immunology of pregnancy. before during and after. lots of questions hanging loose there. not suprised that it helped. and i know that estriol is antiinflammitory. but i don’t know it’s mechanism. the estrogens have a more complex and far as i’ve yet seen, little understood relationship to MMPs. interferon works by downregulating IL-12. forskolin by upregulating cAMP. progestins have a different mechanism, don’t remember off the top ‘o’ my head. but everything out there that in any way slows MS seems to downregulate MMPs in doing so. that’s a bit of a nexus where all of the effectors both immune system and drugs cross paths. the primary targets are MMP-3 and MMP-9. they seem to be the ones causing the most damage. and you can’t use chelation to go after ‘em. it screws up calcium metabolism and every neural synapse has four zinc atoms at the gap. our brains are loaded with it. unfortunatly zinc is also the metal in metalloprotienases. so chelating the zinc is a bad idea. MMP-9 not only cuts a path through the BBB and through the basement membrane of the nerves allowing further attack. it actually cuts mbp into three peices. one of which is prolly both immunogenic and encephalogenic. in other words once it’s in, the shit paints a big bullseye on myelin for the immune system to go after. > Love and Light, > Jeannette > — > I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me > color and personality. > "Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – > http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/
———————————————————————– "The whole business of his life was in the plunder of his gaze…" Daniel Halevy on Degas | <include>ed’s 3d stuff | http://world.std.com/~ehill | 617-629-4625 |
Response:
"Paul Jones" <Paul_Jo…@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3B56EECB.94CF3D50@btinternet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bear in mind that I’m not a doctor and I’m not giving any > advice here – what you take for your MS is your own > business. > However, apparently testosterone supplements improve > cognitive function in older men which is well and good. More > importantly from the perspective of men with MS they > increase natural levels Estradiol (a female hormone!) which > is thought to modulate CD4+ T-cell activity (the villians of > the piece) and is being studied as a treatment for MS in > women. > I would be interested in hearing Ed and Jeanette’s views on > this. > The article is published in this month’s neurology and I > have transcribed the news article in the news section of my > site.
I am using the testosterone gel. Mine tested 125 when normal is 300 to 1,000. It brought mine up to 850 or so. It helped my strength, helped me loose a little weight and increased my libdo. On the down side my hair started falling out again after 20 years and I have a little trouble with ackne. It also helped my depression. I think every one should be tested for it just like they are for thyroid. I am 58 years old and I think my testosterone production shut down 20 years ago when I was given massive doses of steriods when I lost the use of my left leg. That’s about the time I stoped loosing my hair. Gordon
Response:
paul Paul Jones <Paul_Jo…@btinternet.com> writes: >Ed >I found this in an article from May 1999. It’s from an >interview in May 1999 with a Dr. Voskuhl who was/is one of >the researchers into Estriol: >Where did you get the idea to use estriol for this?
not estriol, estrogen. and i wasn’t looking for relief. this was an attempt at remyelination. i studied the literature on myelin growth and development and what the endocrinology signaling that growth was thought to be at that time. then i simulated the progression of hormones to try to force the cell line along that path. it helped some and i get a lot of relief from symptoms. but no significant changes in mobility. my pt said otherwise, but i’m still seated. i suspect this would be a lot more helpful for women, but i’d hardly call it safe. pretty strong stuff and completely untested ‘cept for me. i did see real improvment in memory and cognitive function in general. a lot of things you might associate with PTSD dissappeared. this study here is pretty interesting. i’m not sure what mechanism estriol limits immune reponse by. and MS is improved all the way through pregnancy, not just third trimester. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dr. Voskuhl: The idea came from an interesting observation >that clinicians and neurologists have known for quite some >time. MS patients tell us they get better during pregnancy. >There was a recent New England Journal of Medicine article >showing a highly significant reduction in relapse rate in >the third trimester of pregnancy as compared to before they >were pregnant or after they were pregnant. So there was this >clear evidence that something in the third trimester of >pregnancy made MS better. We went on to ask why and what >hormones are increased in the last trimester of pregnancy. >The ones that go to a real high level at that time are >progesterone and estriol. Estriol is slightly different than >the estrogen of the ovulatory cycle. This particular >estrogen is a weak estrogen, and it’s made by the fetal >placental unit. So instead of being made by the ovary, >estriol is made out of the fetal placental unit. Which is >why you get such high levels when the baby is large in the >last trimester. Based on this information, we gave the >estriol, progesterone or placebo treatments to mice with >experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis. It is the animal >model most widely used for multiple sclerosis. What we found >was that the mice receiving placebo and progesterone looked >a lot alike. They were very sick and had a lot of paralysis. >The estriol treated mice looked really good — significantly >better. We did the experiment over 20 times, and the estriol >always makes the mice a lot better with regard to less >disability. >I’ve got the full interview on: >http://www.btinternet.com/~ms_pages/DrsQAEstriolandMS.html >Take care, >Paul >All About MS – the latest MS News and Views >http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/ >ed hill wrote: >> hi folks >> Jeannette Wilson <mswil…@hotmail.com> writes: >> >Paul Jones wrote: >> >> Thanks Jeanette, >> >> Can you give us a quick precy on the difference between >> >> estriol and estradiol. What do they both do – does one or >> >> both feminise men – are they both naturally occurring in men >> >> – could I safely take a small dose of estriol without >> >> feminising effects? Are they both anti-inflammatory only >> >> (i.e. relapse preventers) or is the current thinking that >> >> estriol can slow progression in SPMS? >> paul, i’m going to strongly suggest that you consider progesterone instead of the >> estrogens. >> it’s your call, but everything i’ve learned in this area points to progesterone >> being the better risk. >> >Estriol, or "E-3 estrogen", is made in the placenta of pregnant women, >> >and it’s what keeps her body’s immune system from attacking the fetus >> >growing within her. I’ve seen *a* report that says it’s an >> >anti-inflammatory, but to me that makes no sense at all – it has to >> >somehow rein in the immune system, not just make the swelling go down. >> >Estradiol, or "E-1 estrogen", is what causes feminization. It helps >> >prevent osteoporosis, and helps prevent heart disease… but it also >> >seems related to breast cancer. It also causes breast growth, by >> >re-distributing body fat (progesterone causes the mammary glans to grow, >> >and that makes the estrogen-created breasts have better shape and >> >definition), and makes the skin more translucent, too. >> in this progesterone helps. it downregulates MMP’s. MMP’s are instramental in the >> tissue remodeling involved in tumor growth. i think most of the women who have >> spoken up here about MS symptoms and their menstral cycle have discussed a marked >> increase in symptoms during menstration. menstration is in part fascilitated by a >> radical lowering of progesterone which signals MMP activation and tissue >> "remodeling" that allows the egg to be flushed. >> and odd as it may seem paul. if you can. get the progesterone as a capsule/powder. >> you can then snort it. not into the openning of the nostril. but with a tube, far >> up nearly between the eyes. that’s where your olfactory nerves are. this will >> create very high CSF levels and relatively far lower serum levels of the hormone. >> ie; more bang for the buck. >> >I know that estradiol will cause the male body to react by signaling the >> >primary hormone producers, the testes, to slow down, or even to stop >> >altogether if enough estradiol is taken for long enough. I’m not sure >> >if estriol will have a similar effect, but I’d expect it would, as it’s >> >also a form of a hormone, and that’s what the body "sees" when deciding >> >what level is right. :( I suppose a male *could* follow the same route >> >as many M2F TGs, taking both estrogen and testosterone, but that would >> >certainly end up having the testes shut down for good >> >> I’m really thinking hard about taking small doses of >> >> testosterone – how much would be safe? How much would I need >> >> to get maximum effect? How much is Montel Williams taking? >> i suspect montel’s double mastectomy was caused by a hormone regimen similar to the >> one i tried a coupla years ago. ’cept his docs didn’t know about increasing the >> ratio of CSF to SERUM levels with intranasal dosing. so he flooded his system and >> got hit with gynomastia. >> paul, i’ve taken both small and very large doses of testosterone and not found them >> particularly helpful YMMV. >> the things i’ve found most helpful were progesterone, insulin and forskolin. >> (insulin guides the O-2A cell line toward oligodendrocytes rather than astrocytes) >> >Sorry, those I don’t know. My serum testosterone levels, these days, >> >are near zero, which is exactly where I want them (that helps, >> >*greatly*, cut down on my libido. It’s been, hmm, almost three years >> >since I last had that "urge", and frankly, I don’t miss it at all). >> >Jeannette >> >– >> >I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me >> >color and personality. >> >"Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – >> >http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/ >> best regards >> ed >> — >> ———————————————————————– >> "The whole business of his life was in the plunder of his gaze…" >> Daniel Halevy on Degas >> | <include>ed’s 3d stuff | http://world.std.com/~ehill | 617-629-4625 |
– ———————————————————————– "The whole business of his life was in the plunder of his gaze…" Daniel Halevy on Degas | <include>ed’s 3d stuff | http://world.std.com/~ehill | 617-629-4625 |
Response:
"Paul Jones" <Paul_Jo…@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3B5751B2.9D7A4478@btinternet.com… > I’ve got no reason to think I’ve got an imbalance of > hormones and I know my thyroid is okay (at least it was a > year ago) I just want to experiment with testosterone (and > maybe other hormones if they’re safe) in the hope that they > will stabilise me.
If they are low bring them up but too much is not a good thing. Gordon
Response:
hi folks Jeannette Wilson <mswil…@hotmail.com> writes: >Paul Jones wrote: >> Thanks Jeanette, >> Can you give us a quick precy on the difference between >> estriol and estradiol. What do they both do – does one or >> both feminise men – are they both naturally occurring in men >> – could I safely take a small dose of estriol without >> feminising effects? Are they both anti-inflammatory only >> (i.e. relapse preventers) or is the current thinking that >> estriol can slow progression in SPMS?
paul, i’m going to strongly suggest that you consider progesterone instead of the estrogens. it’s your call, but everything i’ve learned in this area points to progesterone being the better risk. >Estriol, or "E-3 estrogen", is made in the placenta of pregnant women, >and it’s what keeps her body’s immune system from attacking the fetus >growing within her. I’ve seen *a* report that says it’s an >anti-inflammatory, but to me that makes no sense at all – it has to >somehow rein in the immune system, not just make the swelling go down. >Estradiol, or "E-1 estrogen", is what causes feminization. It helps >prevent osteoporosis, and helps prevent heart disease… but it also >seems related to breast cancer. It also causes breast growth, by >re-distributing body fat (progesterone causes the mammary glans to grow, >and that makes the estrogen-created breasts have better shape and >definition), and makes the skin more translucent, too.
in this progesterone helps. it downregulates MMP’s. MMP’s are instramental in the tissue remodeling involved in tumor growth. i think most of the women who have spoken up here about MS symptoms and their menstral cycle have discussed a marked increase in symptoms during menstration. menstration is in part fascilitated by a radical lowering of progesterone which signals MMP activation and tissue "remodeling" that allows the egg to be flushed. and odd as it may seem paul. if you can. get the progesterone as a capsule/powder. you can then snort it. not into the openning of the nostril. but with a tube, far up nearly between the eyes. that’s where your olfactory nerves are. this will create very high CSF levels and relatively far lower serum levels of the hormone. ie; more bang for the buck. >I know that estradiol will cause the male body to react by signaling the >primary hormone producers, the testes, to slow down, or even to stop >altogether if enough estradiol is taken for long enough. I’m not sure >if estriol will have a similar effect, but I’d expect it would, as it’s >also a form of a hormone, and that’s what the body "sees" when deciding >what level is right. :( I suppose a male *could* follow the same route >as many M2F TGs, taking both estrogen and testosterone, but that would >certainly end up having the testes shut down for good >> I’m really thinking hard about taking small doses of >> testosterone – how much would be safe? How much would I need >> to get maximum effect? How much is Montel Williams taking?
i suspect montel’s double mastectomy was caused by a hormone regimen similar to the one i tried a coupla years ago. ’cept his docs didn’t know about increasing the ratio of CSF to SERUM levels with intranasal dosing. so he flooded his system and got hit with gynomastia. paul, i’ve taken both small and very large doses of testosterone and not found them particularly helpful YMMV. the things i’ve found most helpful were progesterone, insulin and forskolin. (insulin guides the O-2A cell line toward oligodendrocytes rather than astrocytes) >Sorry, those I don’t know. My serum testosterone levels, these days, >are near zero, which is exactly where I want them (that helps, >*greatly*, cut down on my libido. It’s been, hmm, almost three years >since I last had that "urge", and frankly, I don’t miss it at all). >Jeannette >– >I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me >color and personality. >"Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – >http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/
best regards ed — ———————————————————————– "The whole business of his life was in the plunder of his gaze…" Daniel Halevy on Degas | <include>ed’s 3d stuff | http://world.std.com/~ehill | 617-629-4625 |
Response:
Paul Jones wrote: > Thanks Jeanette, > Can you give us a quick precy on the difference between > estriol and estradiol. What do they both do – does one or > both feminise men – are they both naturally occurring in men > – could I safely take a small dose of estriol without > feminising effects? Are they both anti-inflammatory only > (i.e. relapse preventers) or is the current thinking that > estriol can slow progression in SPMS?
Estriol, or "E-3 estrogen", is made in the placenta of pregnant women, and it’s what keeps her body’s immune system from attacking the fetus growing within her. I’ve seen *a* report that says it’s an anti-inflammatory, but to me that makes no sense at all – it has to somehow rein in the immune system, not just make the swelling go down. Estradiol, or "E-1 estrogen", is what causes feminization. It helps prevent osteoporosis, and helps prevent heart disease… but it also seems related to breast cancer. It also causes breast growth, by re-distributing body fat (progesterone causes the mammary glans to grow, and that makes the estrogen-created breasts have better shape and definition), and makes the skin more translucent, too. I know that estradiol will cause the male body to react by signaling the primary hormone producers, the testes, to slow down, or even to stop altogether if enough estradiol is taken for long enough. I’m not sure if estriol will have a similar effect, but I’d expect it would, as it’s also a form of a hormone, and that’s what the body "sees" when deciding what level is right. :( I suppose a male *could* follow the same route as many M2F TGs, taking both estrogen and testosterone, but that would certainly end up having the testes shut down for good > I’m really thinking hard about taking small doses of > testosterone – how much would be safe? How much would I need > to get maximum effect? How much is Montel Williams taking?
Sorry, those I don’t know. My serum testosterone levels, these days, are near zero, which is exactly where I want them (that helps, *greatly*, cut down on my libido. It’s been, hmm, almost three years since I last had that "urge", and frankly, I don’t miss it at all). Jeannette — I’m an impure woman. The impurities, as in gemstones, are what give me color and personality. "Stressed" spelled backwards is "Desserts" My home page – http://vikki.oz.net/~jeanne/
Response:
I’ve got no reason to think I’ve got an imbalance of hormones and I know my thyroid is okay (at least it was a year ago) I just want to experiment with testosterone (and maybe other hormones if they’re safe) in the hope that they will stabilise me. Take care, Paul All About MS – the latest MS News and Views http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Marilyn Bachmann wrote: > > Have a blood test done and read Screaming to Be Heard by Vliet, who I > > believes gives guidleine testosterone levels for both women and men – I > came > > in at 25, should be @ 40 for a female of my age – doc put me on DHEA as I > > came in way low (10mg) which is supposed to convert to testosterone and > the > > next time I do a thyroid blood draw, I am going to ask to have my > > testosterone checked again…my estradiol was way high, I have estrogen > > dominance, low progesterone as progesterone gets really **cked up by > > mercury….. > Just advocating blood tests for hormones as they are real tricky and the > wrong amount of any given hormone can mess u up further…ie I tried DHEA > years ago and it was BAD NEWS, made me worse – you cannot process DHEA > properly with low levels of thryoid hormone (which I had but had never been > properly tested for as TSH levels in my case was totally inadequate > testing…)…you also cannot process DHEA properly with low levels of > sulfates (which I also have due to mercury poisoning) but I can process 5mg > of DHEA now with the thryoid meds (Armour) with no problem (even young > people only make about 4mg of DHEA/day)…so I don’t overload on the > DHEA…some say women should not take DHEA without also taking melatonin, > but as I am on Procarin and histamine raises levels of melatonin, I don’t > seem to need more, ie if I take 5-HTP, I sleep too much… > If your hormones are outta whack you need to have your thryoid tested > properly…a full panel, not just the standard TSH which is mostly > useless….
Response:
> I’m really thinking hard about taking small doses of > testosterone – how much would be safe? How much would I need > to get maximum effect? How much is Montel Williams taking? > Take care, > Paul > All About MS – the latest MS News and Views > http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/
Have a blood test done and read Screaming to Be Heard by Vliet, who I believes gives guidleine testosterone levels for both women and men – I came in at 25, should be @ 40 for a female of my age – doc put me on DHEA as I came in way low (10mg) which is supposed to convert to testosterone and the next time I do a thyroid blood draw, I am going to ask to have my testosterone checked again…my estradiol was way high, I have estrogen dominance, low progesterone as progesterone gets really **cked up by mercury…..
Response:
> Have a blood test done and read Screaming to Be Heard by Vliet, who I > believes gives guidleine testosterone levels for both women and men – I came > in at 25, should be @ 40 for a female of my age – doc put me on DHEA as I > came in way low (10mg) which is supposed to convert to testosterone and the > next time I do a thyroid blood draw, I am going to ask to have my > testosterone checked again…my estradiol was way high, I have estrogen > dominance, low progesterone as progesterone gets really **cked up by > mercury…..
Just advocating blood tests for hormones as they are real tricky and the wrong amount of any given hormone can mess u up further…ie I tried DHEA years ago and it was BAD NEWS, made me worse – you cannot process DHEA properly with low levels of thryoid hormone (which I had but had never been properly tested for as TSH levels in my case was totally inadequate testing…)…you also cannot process DHEA properly with low levels of sulfates (which I also have due to mercury poisoning) but I can process 5mg of DHEA now with the thryoid meds (Armour) with no problem (even young people only make about 4mg of DHEA/day)…so I don’t overload on the DHEA…some say women should not take DHEA without also taking melatonin, but as I am on Procarin and histamine raises levels of melatonin, I don’t seem to need more, ie if I take 5-HTP, I sleep too much… If your hormones are outta whack you need to have your thryoid tested properly…a full panel, not just the standard TSH which is mostly useless….
Response:
Testosterone Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function in Healthy Older Men http://www.medscape.com/reuters/prof/2001/07/07.17/20010716clin007.html [NB: Estradiol is being tested for possible benefits in MS] WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Jul 16 – Short-term testosterone supplementation improves spatial functions and verbal memory in healthy older men, according to a report published in the July issue of Neurology. Dr. Monique M. Cherrier from the University of Washington Medical School in Seattle and colleagues randomized 25 healthy men, 50 to 80 years of age, to receive a 6-week course of weekly placebo or testosterone (100 mg) injections. In the treatment group, total testosterone levels increased by 130% and 116% after 3 and 6 weeks of treatment, respectively, compared with baseline levels. Aromatization of testosterone led to a 77% and 73% increase in estradiol levels at the same time intervals. Spatial memory, spatial ability and verbal memory were significantly improved in the testosterone group compared with their baseline cognitive function and the cognitive function of the placebo group. The investigators point out that the "improvements were not evident for all cognitive domains, such as selective attention or language, suggesting that increases in serum testosterone or estradiol have selective or specific effects on memory and spatial abilities." The authors note that "it remains unclear whether these improvements in cognition are attributable to increased testosterone or estradiol levels, or both." They add that "further studies will need to examine the relative contribution of testosterone versus estradiol on cognition in men." Neurology 2001;57:80-88. Copyright
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