Question:
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:52:51 GMT, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Silver <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >But you can’t always avoid stress because it’s just all a part >of life. We just have to learn a better way of dealing with stress I >guess.
*There* ya go! This might be a very fruitful area for discussion …. or my bias is blatently showing. — "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
Thanks for the replies. After the first day I started to settle down a bit and the balance and the use of the legs started to get better. I still feel badly but as the situation that started it gets farther in the past- I think I am getting better. There seems to be truth in that bad stress is bad (for both with and with out MS). I did experience some talking, reading and writing problems that day also. They are most if not entirely gone. Well I guess I just need to relax and take it easy. Thanks again to all for the answers. Matt "Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3D62C9F2.7609CF8B@sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Matt, > I was dx’d 24 yrs ago and the GP and every neuro I’ve had since has > *always* told me to stay away from stressful situations that stress has > everything to do with ms and how bad it effects me. So, I’d say the > answer to your question is most definitely. When I was dx’d I was in a > high stress job (43% turnover in personnel every year) and having a new > attack every 2 mos. from my 1st in June until I finally "had" to quit > working the following Feb. Then I didn’t have another attack for almost > 5 yrs. But you can’t always avoid stress because it’s just all a part > of life. We just have to learn a better way of dealing with stress I > guess. > Silver > matt wrote: > > Ok this is a difficult question. I am wondering if anyone has had an > > increase in their symptoms quickly after an emotional situation. > > For instance, my dog, a 3 year old female pug, just (an hour or two > > ago) fell out my car window while I was driving about 65 MPH. The vet said > > she is fine, just a bit of road rash. Well…when I stopped and went for her > > I had trouble walking, I fell down, then again at the Vets, I fell down. > > The time at the Vets seemed to me to be in slow motion, like I knew I was > > going down but could not stop it. After returning home my balance was just > > as bad as at the vets. I fell into a myriad of things but did not fall to > > the ground like before. Just a few minutes before the dog went out the > > window I had been alright, no balance problems to speak of. I do have > > balance problems, although normally not like I just experienced where I fell > > down. I am also having problems typing right now. > > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly > > like I just experienced or is there another explanation? > > Matt
Response:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:04:16 -0800, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,"matt" <mccul…@gci.remove.net> wrote: >Ok this is a difficult question. I am wondering if anyone has had an >increase in their symptoms quickly after an emotional situation. > For instance, my dog, a 3 year old female pug, just (an hour or two >ago) fell out my car window while I was driving about 65 MPH. The vet said >she is fine, just a bit of road rash. Well…when I stopped and went for her >I had trouble walking, I fell down, then again at the Vets, I fell down. >The time at the Vets seemed to me to be in slow motion, like I knew I was >going down but could not stop it. After returning home my balance was just >as bad as at the vets. I fell into a myriad of things but did not fall to >the ground like before. Just a few minutes before the dog went out the >window I had been alright, no balance problems to speak of. I do have >balance problems, although normally not like I just experienced where I fell >down. I am also having problems typing right now. > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly >like I just experienced or is there another explanation?
There may be another explaination and I’d honestly like to hear it. I have been thinking about this for some time and, well, I have yet to have all of my thoughts in good order on this; but I do think that there is something to what you are saying. My *hypothesis*, at this point, is along the lines of: sometimes, maybe with some people, when we deal poorly with stress, the MS rears its ugly head (how’s *that* for a concise, objective hypothesis? …. OK, I’m still working on it and I am a *long* way from anything useful, as you can see). In general terms, I have found two things: 1) When I deal poorly with stress (still a nebuluous term), my symptoms worsen. 2) When I am in a situation when my adrenaline is increased, I am able to work through the symptoms better — IOW, when the adrenaline flows, I am more able to accomplish those tasks (walking, for example) which I am typically unasble to do well because of the MS. So, if ya want symptom relief, get into a life of crime. Kids, don’t try this without adult supervision. — "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
Look, Laura, I AM NOT INTERESTED!!!! It is *still* a chemical. I am happy that it works for you. By all means, you should continue to take it, if that’s "what *you* feel is best for you"! However, that is NOT how I choose to handle my situation, soooooo…..back off. I’m sorry to be so rude but you just don’t seem to be getting the message. "For *me*, I am not interested! I don’t know how I can be any clearer. Silver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mona wrote: > See therein may lie the problem – valium – I.E. mommy’s little helper – is > not to me at least truly an antidepressant. It is a lala land pill! While > granted my kids and husband would say I *need* something like that many > days!! They would call it a chill pill!! The antidepressants now work > with brain chemicals or something (I am a tech-head don’t expect a > reasonable explanation from me!!) to correct what is though to be an > imbalance of those chemicals. > — > Laura > "Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > news:3D6955F3.FE417B9D@sbcglobal.net… > > > I’m sorry you feel that way about anti depressants. > > I’m not!!! But to each their own. > > > I have found that rather then mask things they alleviate the irrational > > reactions and allow you to deal with problems more rationally. > > There in is where the problem might lie. I have been accused of being > > "too rational" by family and friends. Almost to the point of being a > > "pain in the ***", I think was how it has been put. > > > Happy lala pills they are not. > > I know that! Heck, if they were I might be tempted to take them. (only > > joking <smile>) > > > Have you tried and anti depressant? If so which one? > > Yes……valium. But that was 30 yrs ago, several yrs before the ms. > > And > > that’s where the rest of my problem lies. I get a reverse reaction off > > most drugs. Taking valium was like taking speed for me. I was up most > > of > > the night and got my house squeaky clean! And was at work by 7a.m. when > > I > > started at 8. (that probably doesn’t sound so strange until you consider > > I > > was habitually 45 mins. late..they use to say you could set a clock by > > me) Then when I was prescribed diet pills, supposed "uppers", you’d find > > me curled up sleepin somewhere 10 mins. later. > > Look, Laura, I appreciate your concern. I just happen to have a > > different > > theory on life which includes as few of drugs as possible "for me". > > But, > > if they work for others….great. Does that make me any better than > > anyone else? Absolutely not!!!! So please don’t think I was thinking > > that. I just approach things differently. > > Silver
Response:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2002 22:03:39 GMT, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Silver <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >Look, Laura, I appreciate your concern. I just happen to have a >different >theory on life which includes as few of drugs as possible "for me". >But, >if they work for others….great. Does that make me any better than >anyone else? Absolutely not!!!! So please don’t think I was thinking >that. I just approach things differently.
That may well be The Answer ™. MS seems to be sorta different with everybody (with some aspects being sort of typical). It is another way of reinforcing how we are all individuals. == "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
See therein may lie the problem – valium – I.E. mommy’s little helper – is not to me at least truly an antidepressant. It is a lala land pill! While granted my kids and husband would say I *need* something like that many days!! They would call it a chill pill!! The antidepressants now work with brain chemicals or something (I am a tech-head don’t expect a reasonable explanation from me!!) to correct what is though to be an imbalance of those chemicals. — Laura "Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3D6955F3.FE417B9D@sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I’m sorry you feel that way about anti depressants. > I’m not!!! But to each their own. > > I have found that rather then mask things they alleviate the irrational > reactions and allow you to deal with problems more rationally. > There in is where the problem might lie. I have been accused of being > "too rational" by family and friends. Almost to the point of being a > "pain in the ***", I think was how it has been put. > > Happy lala pills they are not. > I know that! Heck, if they were I might be tempted to take them. (only > joking <smile>) > > Have you tried and anti depressant? If so which one? > Yes……valium. But that was 30 yrs ago, several yrs before the ms. > And > that’s where the rest of my problem lies. I get a reverse reaction off > most drugs. Taking valium was like taking speed for me. I was up most > of > the night and got my house squeaky clean! And was at work by 7a.m. when > I > started at 8. (that probably doesn’t sound so strange until you consider > I > was habitually 45 mins. late..they use to say you could set a clock by > me) Then when I was prescribed diet pills, supposed "uppers", you’d find > me curled up sleepin somewhere 10 mins. later. > Look, Laura, I appreciate your concern. I just happen to have a > different > theory on life which includes as few of drugs as possible "for me". > But, > if they work for others….great. Does that make me any better than > anyone else? Absolutely not!!!! So please don’t think I was thinking > that. I just approach things differently. > Silver
Response:
> I’m sorry you feel that way about anti depressants.
I’m not!!! But to each their own. > I have found that rather then mask things they alleviate the irrational > reactions and allow you to deal with problems more rationally.
There in is where the problem might lie. I have been accused of being "too rational" by family and friends. Almost to the point of being a "pain in the ***", I think was how it has been put. > Happy lala pills they are not.
I know that! Heck, if they were I might be tempted to take them. (only joking <smile>) > Have you tried and anti depressant? If so which one?
Yes……valium. But that was 30 yrs ago, several yrs before the ms. And that’s where the rest of my problem lies. I get a reverse reaction off most drugs. Taking valium was like taking speed for me. I was up most of the night and got my house squeaky clean! And was at work by 7a.m. when I started at 8. (that probably doesn’t sound so strange until you consider I was habitually 45 mins. late..they use to say you could set a clock by me) Then when I was prescribed diet pills, supposed "uppers", you’d find me curled up sleepin somewhere 10 mins. later. Look, Laura, I appreciate your concern. I just happen to have a different theory on life which includes as few of drugs as possible "for me". But, if they work for others….great. Does that make me any better than anyone else? Absolutely not!!!! So please don’t think I was thinking that. I just approach things differently. Silver
Response:
That has me thinking about an issue I (who no longer works outside the home) had not thought about. I would encourage *anyone* with a disability to speak with their supervisors in advance about proper actions to take in the event of a drill and/or real alarm emergency. If you are not satisfied with the answer (or do not think your boss will know) go to or call human resources and ask. If you are going to need assistance they may want to assign an emergency buddy or two to you – or at least assign one to make sure you don’t need assistance. I had a friend who was a paraplegic in a chair and remember where I worked at having something like what I describe above in place for him – It was a US govt. office though – they were well aware of what the law expected of them in an emergency, especially in relation to disabled folks. — Laura "Glen Appleby" <dirtde…@rcip.com> wrote in message
news:3d6775e2.234004857@216.168.3.40… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 05:09:16 GMT, in > alt.support.mult-sclerosis,"njs" <elevat…@giveadamn.com> wrote: > >I agree with your post, Silver. I do all the stress-alleviating things I > >can, yet, one little incident can unhinge me to the point I’m unable to > >work. > If the incident is enough to cause you to be unable to work, then > it isn’t little, is it. > >For instance: The fire drill we had yesterday, and my intractable boss > >acting like a dumb ass when I kept saying "I have to leave" (trying to avoid > >the flashing silver light and plug my ears against the "WHOOPWHOOPWHOOP" > >going) > I had noticed that since the 90s (the first time that *I* > encountered these alarms, anyway) the fire alarms in offices have > become *really* annoying. On one hand, I understand that it is > something of a Good Idea ™ because it *drives* people out of > the building (even folks without MS can’t tolerate those sounds); > but OTOH, even the old skool fire drill alarms did the job. > >The ongoing battle with trying to make people understand that I have > >invisible issues came up again, and it is extremely stressful. They’re > >telling us we have to run up stairs to get people out, and I’m standing > >there, saying repeatedly "but I am one of the ones you would need to GET > >out, in a real emergency!" > >By the time I could stagger outside into the 100 degree heat where I had to > >wait out the 20 minute drill, I was already in full-blown eye darkness and > >twitching, and the world was shaking up and down, and had lost my ability to > >walk in a straight line, or focus on things properly. So, another freaking > >day off without pay, as I’ve used all my sick and vacation for this month. > >And when I go back on Monday, I’ll face the stress of my boss demanding to > >know if I have an "updated doctor letter" and why I need to keep taking off, > >aren’t I "well" yet? And work is just one aspect of the stress. > Sounds like somebody should edukate the auld crank. Perhaps some > documentation about ADA taken to HR, along with some information > about MS might be in order. > I might be prone to hire some big, burley dude to meet the boss > one night in the parking lot, as he leaves work, to give *him* a > lesson is Stress Management … but that would be a Bad Thing > ™, for which I could get tried as a terrorist, so I would > never actually do such a thing. > But thinking about it can be fun, no? > >Talk therapy, meditation, medication, yadda yadda yadda. Haven’t found > >anything yet that controls stress. > I would hope that you would continue looking. Stress stinks. > >Just a look from my boss, and the > >throbbing in my spine and head start, and my faculties start to disappear. > >Valium brings my thinking and balance back a little, but my eye will suffer > >for days. > I’m curious if this is the type of boss that has virtually > everybody on edge. > Yes, with MS, we have sorta special responses to the world, but > if everybody was stresses by the auld fart, perhaps this is > another area in which HR should be involved for the good of the > company. > >And we’re supposed to SMILE all this away? > Ouch! Someone suggeasted *that* to you? Pretty lame and > unhelpful. > "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." > — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom > ______________________________________________________________ > Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 05:09:16 GMT, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,"njs" <elevat…@giveadamn.com> wrote: >I agree with your post, Silver. I do all the stress-alleviating things I >can, yet, one little incident can unhinge me to the point I’m unable to >work.
If the incident is enough to cause you to be unable to work, then it isn’t little, is it. >For instance: The fire drill we had yesterday, and my intractable boss >acting like a dumb ass when I kept saying "I have to leave" (trying to avoid >the flashing silver light and plug my ears against the "WHOOPWHOOPWHOOP" >going)
I had noticed that since the 90s (the first time that *I* encountered these alarms, anyway) the fire alarms in offices have become *really* annoying. On one hand, I understand that it is something of a Good Idea ™ because it *drives* people out of the building (even folks without MS can’t tolerate those sounds); but OTOH, even the old skool fire drill alarms did the job. >The ongoing battle with trying to make people understand that I have >invisible issues came up again, and it is extremely stressful. They’re >telling us we have to run up stairs to get people out, and I’m standing >there, saying repeatedly "but I am one of the ones you would need to GET >out, in a real emergency!" >By the time I could stagger outside into the 100 degree heat where I had to >wait out the 20 minute drill, I was already in full-blown eye darkness and >twitching, and the world was shaking up and down, and had lost my ability to >walk in a straight line, or focus on things properly. So, another freaking >day off without pay, as I’ve used all my sick and vacation for this month. >And when I go back on Monday, I’ll face the stress of my boss demanding to >know if I have an "updated doctor letter" and why I need to keep taking off, >aren’t I "well" yet? And work is just one aspect of the stress.
Sounds like somebody should edukate the auld crank. Perhaps some documentation about ADA taken to HR, along with some information about MS might be in order. I might be prone to hire some big, burley dude to meet the boss one night in the parking lot, as he leaves work, to give *him* a lesson is Stress Management … but that would be a Bad Thing ™, for which I could get tried as a terrorist, so I would never actually do such a thing. But thinking about it can be fun, no? >Talk therapy, meditation, medication, yadda yadda yadda. Haven’t found >anything yet that controls stress.
I would hope that you would continue looking. Stress stinks. >Just a look from my boss, and the >throbbing in my spine and head start, and my faculties start to disappear. >Valium brings my thinking and balance back a little, but my eye will suffer >for days.
I’m curious if this is the type of boss that has virtually everybody on edge. Yes, with MS, we have sorta special responses to the world, but if everybody was stresses by the auld fart, perhaps this is another area in which HR should be involved for the good of the company. >And we’re supposed to SMILE all this away?
Ouch! Someone suggeasted *that* to you? Pretty lame and unhelpful. "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
I’m sorry you feel that way about anti depressants. I have found that rather then mask things they alleviate the irrational reactions and allow you to deal with problems more rationally. Happy lala pills they are not. Have you tried and anti depressant? If so which one? — Laura "Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3D652F61.6FCE8129@sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And please don’t tell me to > take > anti-depressants. They don’t help you solve any problems….just mask > them. > I think I’d better go. > Silver
Response:
I agree with your post, Silver. I do all the stress-alleviating things I can, yet, one little incident can unhinge me to the point I’m unable to work. For instance: The fire drill we had yesterday, and my intractable boss acting like a dumb ass when I kept saying "I have to leave" (trying to avoid the flashing silver light and plug my ears against the "WHOOPWHOOPWHOOP" going) The ongoing battle with trying to make people understand that I have invisible issues came up again, and it is extremely stressful. They’re telling us we have to run up stairs to get people out, and I’m standing there, saying repeatedly "but I am one of the ones you would need to GET out, in a real emergency!" By the time I could stagger outside into the 100 degree heat where I had to wait out the 20 minute drill, I was already in full-blown eye darkness and twitching, and the world was shaking up and down, and had lost my ability to walk in a straight line, or focus on things properly. So, another freaking day off without pay, as I’ve used all my sick and vacation for this month. And when I go back on Monday, I’ll face the stress of my boss demanding to know if I have an "updated doctor letter" and why I need to keep taking off, aren’t I "well" yet? And work is just one aspect of the stress. Talk therapy, meditation, medication, yadda yadda yadda. Haven’t found anything yet that controls stress. Just a look from my boss, and the throbbing in my spine and head start, and my faculties start to disappear. Valium brings my thinking and balance back a little, but my eye will suffer for days. And we’re supposed to SMILE all this away? if only. "Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3D652F61.6FCE8129@sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > But I am not quite sure that it is the stress ("good" or "bad"), > > as much as it is how we are each able to deal with it. > So, tell me Glen, since from past postings you’ve made, I gather this is > your area of expertise. I’m really not attacking you. It’s just that > I’ve heard this statement made so many times without any suggestions on > what might be the better way to handle stress. I know the way I deal > now isn’t good because I have 2 diseases that behave rather badly to > stress so you might say stress is slowly killing me. Putting that smile > on your face and always being in a good mood while hiding pain and tears > inside, > can sure be a pain in the a** sometimes. And please don’t tell me to > take > anti-depressants. They don’t help you solve any problems….just mask > them. > I think I’d better go. > Silver
Response:
On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:30:07 GMT, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Silver <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >So, tell me Glen, since from past postings you’ve made, I gather this is >your area of expertise.
Well, more an area of really, really, really strong interest. Unfortunately, my "area of expertise" would be more like engineering and programming and I would *hope* that nobody wants to be re-engineered or programmed. This is simply something that I have studied for the past 15 years and … well, my last jobs were in the field of mental health. Hardly what I would call "expertise", though. >I’m really not attacking you.
If you want to, though, go ‘head. I can take it. Honestly, I don’t tend to take too much stuff personally. >It’s just that >I’ve heard this statement made so many times without any suggestions on >what might be the better way to handle stress.
Well, that’s because I more wanted to discuss some of the things that I have mentioned. I sure as heck don’t wanna come off as someone who *knows* all (or any) of the answers. Anytime that I *think* that I do, my wife corrects me. >I know the way I deal >now isn’t good because I have 2 diseases that behave rather badly to >stress so you might say stress is slowly killing me.
I am somewhat convinced that stress is slowly killing most people; that it is a somewhat strongly underlying cause of most death (especially if one excludes all those caused by violence and … well, even those might be included). >Putting that smile >on your face and always being in a good mood while hiding pain and tears >inside, can sure be a pain in the a** sometimes.
Only sometimes? While I fully agree that pretending to feel just fine when one isn’t feeling that way is pretty sucky and useless; I know that in my later years of working I made it a point to smile all of the time (I had the amazing advantage of really enjoying my work, in both fields). I did this somewhat intentionally. I found that as a result (I *believe* it was a result but have not even attempted anything like a scientific study about this), most of the people with which I worked tended to be happier and smile more as well. It was kinda nice. >And please don’t tell me to take anti-depressants.
Ho, lordy no!!! Didn’t you see the one I posted about anti-depressants and MS? >They don’t help you solve any problems….just mask them.
There ya go! Worse, in the case of MS, if it *is* made worse by stress and, as I suggested, stress messes with the immune syatem telling it to destroy mylien sheath and depression diminishes the immune system, then depression might actually be benefical to those with MS. Not that I recommend depression, BTW. And I am nothing even close to sure about anything in the above paragraph. >I think I’d better go.
Why? Heck, I thought it was just starting to get going. — "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
> But I am not quite sure that it is the stress ("good" or "bad"), > as much as it is how we are each able to deal with it.
So, tell me Glen, since from past postings you’ve made, I gather this is your area of expertise. I’m really not attacking you. It’s just that I’ve heard this statement made so many times without any suggestions on what might be the better way to handle stress. I know the way I deal now isn’t good because I have 2 diseases that behave rather badly to stress so you might say stress is slowly killing me. Putting that smile on your face and always being in a good mood while hiding pain and tears inside, can sure be a pain in the a** sometimes. And please don’t tell me to take anti-depressants. They don’t help you solve any problems….just mask them. I think I’d better go. Silver
Response:
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:09:28 -0800, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,"matt" <mccul…@gci.remove.net> wrote: >Thanks for the replies. After the first day I started to settle down a bit >and the balance and the use of the legs started to get better. I still feel >badly but as the situation that started it gets farther in the past- I think >I am getting better. There seems to be truth in that bad stress is bad (for >both with and with out MS).
There, I believe, is the ticket! But I am not quite sure that it is the stress ("good" or "bad"), as much as it is how we are each able to deal with it. >I did experience some talking, reading and >writing problems that day also. They are most if not entirely gone. Well I >guess I just need to relax and take it easy.
The body has its ways to give us hints that we might want to slow down a bit. Not to get morbid, but I have heard it said that "death is nature’s way of telling us to slow down". OK, it’s the *ultimate* hint and we really should start listening, as long before that as possible. — "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
Hi Matt, I was dx’d 24 yrs ago and the GP and every neuro I’ve had since has *always* told me to stay away from stressful situations that stress has everything to do with ms and how bad it effects me. So, I’d say the answer to your question is most definitely. When I was dx’d I was in a high stress job (43% turnover in personnel every year) and having a new attack every 2 mos. from my 1st in June until I finally "had" to quit working the following Feb. Then I didn’t have another attack for almost 5 yrs. But you can’t always avoid stress because it’s just all a part of life. We just have to learn a better way of dealing with stress I guess. Silver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -matt wrote: > Ok this is a difficult question. I am wondering if anyone has had an > increase in their symptoms quickly after an emotional situation. > For instance, my dog, a 3 year old female pug, just (an hour or two > ago) fell out my car window while I was driving about 65 MPH. The vet said > she is fine, just a bit of road rash. Well…when I stopped and went for her > I had trouble walking, I fell down, then again at the Vets, I fell down. > The time at the Vets seemed to me to be in slow motion, like I knew I was > going down but could not stop it. After returning home my balance was just > as bad as at the vets. I fell into a myriad of things but did not fall to > the ground like before. Just a few minutes before the dog went out the > window I had been alright, no balance problems to speak of. I do have > balance problems, although normally not like I just experienced where I fell > down. I am also having problems typing right now. > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly > like I just experienced or is there another explanation? > Matt
Response:
[posted and emailed, because ... well, it seems that I may have unintentionally offended, and I'd really like to make sure that get squared away] On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:35:47 GMT, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,"Celeste" <celeste…@adelphia.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’m not sure that I understand this. >> I recognize that epinepherine and adrenaline are the same; but >> adrenaline is the hormone (in the body, through the blood stream) >> and epinepherine is the neurotransmitter (in the brain, made in >> the brain). >> Was the article saying that the hormone (adrenaline) caused the >> brain to produce the neurotransmitter (epenphrine)? >My recall of the article is that it was very short. 3/4 colum at most with >a picture of a brain scan of unknown type. perhaps just a picture. The >article noted that if they injected some sort of dye into a person and then >suprised or scared them the dye crossed the BBB. Since this was a popular >science magazine meant for the mundane masses it was not very technical >beyond mentioning adrenaline. Sorry I have not medscape references. And >the article was hardcopy.
No need to apologize. I was just hoping to glean mo’ information if it was available. >>HEY! That’s how *I* spell, most of the time. Can’t remember and >>can’t bother to look it up. >>As long at it is close enough that people can, fairly easily, >>figure out what you mean, that’s good enough for me. >OK so you sucked me in with this.
Great, now I begin to acquire a reputation as a salesman. >> About 10 years ago, she discovered that he also had diabetes. It >> seems that there is a corelation between hypertension, diabetes >> and heart disease … and she is, not surprisingly at all, >> showing signs of heart disease. >> All from "stress". >You mean PTSD.
That is a cute acronym for "stress" that has come into common usage through shrinks liking to pretend that they know something, but …. well, yeah, sorta. >> Now, the dok$ want to prescribe drugs like antidepressants and >> mood enhancers/stabilizers to mask the *effects* of the stress, >> when all that this person would have to do (that is a somewhat >> lame way of suggesting something that can be fairly difficult to >> accomplish) is to see someone with whom she can be free to talk >> about issues so that she can get her thoughts into a more useful >> perspective. >Hey they’ve gotten away with treating symptoms and not the root cause >forever. Anyone with MS knows about that.
I am constantly amazed, though, how many people overlook it — either because they didn’t realize (as I didn’t for *so* many years, simply because I was never sick enough to bother seeing dok$) or because they intentionally overlook it because they want to hold onto hope, as thin as it may be. >> So, that means that this is nothing more than another useless >> rant, so take it for what it’s worth. >FLAME ON —
NO!!!!! I was referring to what *I* wrote as being "another useless rant". Look, I tend to view a lot of things from a perspective that tends to be outside the norm. I fully recognize that, until I can put my thoughts in order in a manner that most folks can understand what I am saying, that I will look like quite the loon. Look, I first started studying psych, about 15 years ago, in order to understand the term "abuse". When I realized that every skool of psychology and even every individual shrink had a different and subjective definition, I switched to studying neurophysiology to see if I could make any sense of it at all. It was only about 5 years ago that I sorta developed a *tentative* definition that might make some sense. It has been less than 2 years since I was diagnosed with MS, so I am kinda new to it. Please be patient with me. >You know, I dont see what I’ve said that deserves such a a vicious insult.
Oh, man! I honestly do apologize for anything that I said that might have made it look as if I were insulting you. >Is this the paul jones and cowboy fan club and nobody else has anything >worthwhile to say?
Well …. there are folks like the IronMan …. >Maybe you should only lurk around their web site if >nobody else knows anything. Even if I did find backup web information to >point you at would anyone beleive the veracity of anything posted on the >web. This stuff is easy enough for most to research on their own anymore.
I have to say that I am not one to take something as gospell, simply because it is printed. I don’t accept something as fact even if it is writen by people with medical degrees or phds. What I require is that, whatever is said, makes sense based on everything else. >Paul does not believe half the medscape articles he reads. He explains that >on his website.
Good man, then. >I did put disclaimers in warning it is just my personal guesses based on >anecdotal information. I was only attempting to give the original poster >some potentialy usefull information beyond the "there there now we can >empathize with you". How much more anecdotal is THAT? All of my >information was supporting the original topic. I do not think I strayed off >topic like your insult did.
I’ve been trying to train my insults to heel, but they continue to stray when I let them off the leash. I do apologize that our discussion took this unfortunate turn. — "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
> I’m not sure that I understand this. > I recognize that epinepherine and adrenaline are the same; but > adrenaline is the hormone (in the body, through the blood stream) > and epinepherine is the neurotransmitter (in the brain, made in > the brain). > Was the article saying that the hormone (adrenaline) caused the > brain to produce the neurotransmitter (epenphrine)?
My recall of the article is that it was very short. 3/4 colum at most with a picture of a brain scan of unknown type. perhaps just a picture. The article noted that if they injected some sort of dye into a person and then suprised or scared them the dye crossed the BBB. Since this was a popular science magazine meant for the mundane masses it was not very technical beyond mentioning adrenaline. Sorry I have not medscape references. And the article was hardcopy. >HEY! That’s how *I* spell, most of the time. Can’t remember and >can’t bother to look it up. >As long at it is close enough that people can, fairly easily, >figure out what you mean, that’s good enough for me.
OK so you sucked me in with this. > About 10 years ago, she discovered that he also had diabetes. It > seems that there is a corelation between hypertension, diabetes > and heart disease … and she is, not surprisingly at all, > showing signs of heart disease. > All from "stress".
You mean PTSD. > > Now, the dok$ want to prescribe drugs like antidepressants and > mood enhancers/stabilizers to mask the *effects* of the stress, > when all that this person would have to do (that is a somewhat > lame way of suggesting something that can be fairly difficult to > accomplish) is to see someone with whom she can be free to talk > about issues so that she can get her thoughts into a more useful > perspective.
Hey they’ve gotten away with treating symptoms and not the root cause forever. Anyone with MS knows about that. > So, that means that this is nothing more than another useless > rant, so take it for what it’s worth.
FLAME ON — You know, I dont see what I’ve said that deserves such a a vicious insult. Is this the paul jones and cowboy fan club and nobody else has anything worthwhile to say? Maybe you should only lurk around their web site if nobody else knows anything. Even if I did find backup web information to point you at would anyone beleive the veracity of anything posted on the web. This stuff is easy enough for most to research on their own anymore. Paul does not believe half the medscape articles he reads. He explains that on his website. I did put disclaimers in warning it is just my personal guesses based on anecdotal information. I was only attempting to give the original poster some potentialy usefull information beyond the "there there now we can empathize with you". How much more anecdotal is THAT? All of my information was supporting the original topic. I do not think I strayed off topic like your insult did.
Response:
Fascinating perspectives. At a glance, it *might* look like a foolish rant, like those from the IronMen, Vitamin D folks and some others … well, like me, actually; but as I read through it more, I got progressively more interested for a number of different reasons. On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:58:02 GMT, in alt.support.mult-sclerosis,"Celeste" <celeste…@adelphia.net> wrote: >OK – I think in general a diagnosis of disease caused by stress is a cop >out by doctors afraid to say ‘I dont know’
To be fair, doks don’t seem to get how to deal with stress … unless they feel that it can be done by pills. And even then, it tends to to be terribly effectively done without turning the patient into a pile of mush. >the best example of this is >ulcers. For 20 years my uncle was told it was psychological stress. One >day he was completely cured by a combination of anitbiotics and >pepto-bismol. I understand that today this is rapidly becoming the accepted >treatment for ulcers as they are caused by a spirochete bacteria. >sigh – now in the case of MS stress definitely CAN have an affect. I >ready about a study in a very short article in Discover Magazine a couple >years ago. What happens here is that when you get a shot of adrenalen >coursing through your body (fight or flight) the blood brain barrier (BBB) >basically no longer exists until the adrenalen dissipates.
I’m not sure that I understand this. I recognize that epinepherine and adrenaline are the same; but adrenaline is the hormone (in the body, through the blood stream) and epinepherine is the neurotransmitter (in the brain, made in the brain). Was the article saying that the hormone (adrenaline) caused the brain to produce the neurotransmitter (epenphrine)? >This can be a >particular problem with someone with mobility problems because the best way >to eliminate the jitters after an adrenalen rush is to do some vigourous >exercise- fast walking or running being preffered.
OK, that’s one common way. Another way is cortesone …. but let’s not go there. >I want to throw out some additional food for thought based on my 10 years of >research… >(Also, for the life of me I cannot remember how to spell adrenalin and I >dont want to look it up)
HEY! That’s how *I* spell, most of the time. Can’t remember and can’t bother to look it up. As long at it is close enough that people can, fairly easily, figure out what you mean, that’s good enough for me. >If you are constantly stressed you can end up with a constant level of >adrenalen circulating in your body. This can wreak havoc on other hormone >levels and drain you of vitamin C, zinc, and energy. I say this because >adrenalin comes from the adrenal glands with have the 2nd highest >concentration of vit C and zinc in the body. The loss of energy would occur >when the adrenal glands started to get exhausted from overuse – kinda like >the pancreas and insulin in type 2 diabetes — and you could end up with >terrible low back pain and addisons disease, always tired.
Interesting point. I know someone who grew up with abuse: physical, emotional and sexual. In their early 50s, they still live as if abuse were right around the corner. A quote from them is "I have been abused all of my life" (which ain’t true, since it stopped when they left home at 16, but …. "attractors" from "A General Theory Of Love" suggest that anything even close will *feel* like abuse). Adrenaline causes blood vessles to constrict and causes the heart to beat more quickly. Is it any wonder that this person has had hypertension since her late teens? About 10 years ago, she discovered that he also had diabetes. It seems that there is a corelation between hypertension, diabetes and heart disease … and she is, not surprisingly at all, showing signs of heart disease. All from "stress". Now, the dok$ want to prescribe drugs like antidepressants and mood enhancers/stabilizers to mask the *effects* of the stress, when all that this person would have to do (that is a somewhat lame way of suggesting something that can be fairly difficult to accomplish) is to see someone with whom she can be free to talk about issues so that she can get her thoughts into a more useful perspective. Having said that, I want to make it clear that: 1) I am not saying that this is The Answer ™ for everybody and 2) I have not done (or even have seen) any sort of scientific study that would support any of this … and I am not sure that one could even *be* done without doing a lot of defining of terms in a very objective and measurable manner. So, that means that this is nothing more than another useless rant, so take it for what it’s worth. — "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love." — "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom ______________________________________________________________ Glen Appleby gl…@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Response:
Hi Matt! So glad to hear your dog is ok! What a scare, though. > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly > like I just experienced or is there another explanation?
Yes. Over a year and half ago, my boyfriend committed suicide. When the detectives showed up at our apartment and told me, I had a sudden dizzy spell, my legs got very numb, I felt weaker. . .in short, he nearly killed me that day as well. Stress of any kind is very bad for us. Sylvia
Response:
OK – I think in general a diagnosis of disease caused by stress is a cop out by doctors afraid to say ‘I dont know’ the best example of this is ulcers. For 20 years my uncle was told it was psychological stress. One day he was completely cured by a combination of anitbiotics and pepto-bismol. I understand that today this is rapidly becoming the accepted treatment for ulcers as they are caused by a spirochete bacteria. sigh – now in the case of MS stress definitely CAN have an affect. I ready about a study in a very short article in Discover Magazine a couple years ago. What happens here is that when you get a shot of adrenalen coursing through your body (fight or flight) the blood brain barrier (BBB) basically no longer exists until the adrenalen dissipates. This can be a particular problem with someone with mobility problems because the best way to eliminate the jitters after an adrenalen rush is to do some vigourous exercise- fast walking or running being preffered. I want to throw out some additional food for thought based on my 10 years of research… (Also, for the life of me I cannot remember how to spell adrenalin and I dont want to look it up) If you are constantly stressed you can end up with a constant level of adrenalen circulating in your body. This can wreak havoc on other hormone levels and drain you of vitamin C, zinc, and energy. I say this because adrenalin comes from the adrenal glands with have the 2nd highest concentration of vit C and zinc in the body. The loss of energy would occur when the adrenal glands started to get exhausted from overuse – kinda like the pancreas and insulin in type 2 diabetes — and you could end up with terrible low back pain and addisons disease, always tired.
Response:
matt wrote: > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly > like I just experienced or is there another explanation?
Emotional episode = stress = increased MS symptoms. I have a *terrible* time when I am stressed for whatever reason. My mobility, flexibility, etc. all take a turn for the worse during a stress episode. Hopefully, you’ll be back to "normal" ASAP. And I’m glad your dog is OK.
Response:
I can be fine for a long time and if something happens that upsets me I will deal with my MS for months. Last May, on the 30th birthday, my little brother got arrested (which just doesn’t happen in my family) and he called me crying all day until my sister was able to get him out on bail. The next day I was unable to use me right leg, I had to drag it and use a cane for about a month. Stress really does it to me!! I hope you and the dog are doing better now!!! Best Wishes!! Kami matt <mccul…@gci.remove.net> wrote in message
news:ulue5olca70s9f@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok this is a difficult question. I am wondering if anyone has had an > increase in their symptoms quickly after an emotional situation. > For instance, my dog, a 3 year old female pug, just (an hour or two > ago) fell out my car window while I was driving about 65 MPH. The vet said > she is fine, just a bit of road rash. Well…when I stopped and went for her > I had trouble walking, I fell down, then again at the Vets, I fell down. > The time at the Vets seemed to me to be in slow motion, like I knew I was > going down but could not stop it. After returning home my balance was just > as bad as at the vets. I fell into a myriad of things but did not fall to > the ground like before. Just a few minutes before the dog went out the > window I had been alright, no balance problems to speak of. I do have > balance problems, although normally not like I just experienced where I fell > down. I am also having problems typing right now. > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly > like I just experienced or is there another explanation? > Matt
Response:
Matt, I do feel that emotional upsets, stress, etc. can effect MS. Usually temporarily, but it sure can wreack havoc. I know when my brother was very ill my symptoms were really kicking in. But it did calm down after a while. So hang in there! I’m so glad to hear your dog is okay…that is so scary! matt <mccul…@gci.remove.net> wrote in message
news:ulue5olca70s9f@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok this is a difficult question. I am wondering if anyone has had an > increase in their symptoms quickly after an emotional situation. > For instance, my dog, a 3 year old female pug, just (an hour or two > ago) fell out my car window while I was driving about 65 MPH. The vet said > she is fine, just a bit of road rash. Well…when I stopped and went for her > I had trouble walking, I fell down, then again at the Vets, I fell down. > The time at the Vets seemed to me to be in slow motion, like I knew I was > going down but could not stop it. After returning home my balance was just > as bad as at the vets. I fell into a myriad of things but did not fall to > the ground like before. Just a few minutes before the dog went out the > window I had been alright, no balance problems to speak of. I do have > balance problems, although normally not like I just experienced where I fell > down. I am also having problems typing right now. > So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly > like I just experienced or is there another explanation? > Matt
Response:
Ok this is a difficult question. I am wondering if anyone has had an increase in their symptoms quickly after an emotional situation. For instance, my dog, a 3 year old female pug, just (an hour or two ago) fell out my car window while I was driving about 65 MPH. The vet said she is fine, just a bit of road rash. Well…when I stopped and went for her I had trouble walking, I fell down, then again at the Vets, I fell down. The time at the Vets seemed to me to be in slow motion, like I knew I was going down but could not stop it. After returning home my balance was just as bad as at the vets. I fell into a myriad of things but did not fall to the ground like before. Just a few minutes before the dog went out the window I had been alright, no balance problems to speak of. I do have balance problems, although normally not like I just experienced where I fell down. I am also having problems typing right now. So…Can emotional episodes cause an increase in symptoms very quickly like I just experienced or is there another explanation? Matt
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