Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nicola Kenrick wrote: > w…@enteract.com (William G. Schlake) wrote: > >Most people that suffer from IBS if they’re honest with themselves can > >find one or more stressful situations in their life that precessed > >their IBS either completely or brought on worse symptoms. Like with > >anything, there are exceptions. However, I’d wager the above describes > >over 90% of the people that suffer from IBS, and I include myself in > >this group. > >Known ‘triggers’ include loss of a loved one, illness (non IBS) > >problems with family, friends and relationships. Changes in work > >situations, layoffs, promotions, transfers, moving, etc., can also > >bring the first symptoms or make them worse. > I can trace my IBS back to when I was about 14 but I can think of > nothing out of the ordinary that happened then. My home life when I > was a child had always been traumatic (my father is a violent > alcoholic) but I can honestly not think of a particular trigger which > would have started something like this off. > I am now 29 and still suffer – it just got worse over the years. > >People react to stress differently. Some can’t sleep, others get > >depressed, angry, withdrawn, while many exhibit digestive disturbances > >or multiple symptoms. For some, what starts as a minor problem can > >turn into a all consuming obsession, which with something like IBS > >just makes it much worse. It’s a vicious circle. The first step is to > >find and accept the root causes, then adjust your lifestyle. > >For most that have IBS, there’s one or more foods that can no longer > >be tolerated. If you don’t already know what they are, start > >monitoring everything you eat and remove those items that cause > >symptoms at least until things get closer to normal. > The single most helpful thing I ever did to ease my symptons was give > up smoking. I visited a homeopath who diagnosed a number of > intolerances: milk, onions, wheat, etc. and tobacco. At the time (not > being a tobacco chewer) I didn’t take much notice of the tobacco bit. > I just thought that smoking was contributing to my hay fever. After a > particularly fun (not!) bout of pnuemonia I gave up smoking (it just > seemed to make sense really! 
) It wasn’t until the nightmare faded > and a particularly tough deadline approached that I started again. > Gradually, I realised that I was having more problems with my bowel > and the realisiation dawned that it was smoking. > I do my best now not to smoke but quite often I forget (!) the > problems it causes and slip back into bad habits. I damn good guts > ache which lasts a few days generally puts me back on the straight and > narrow. I tend to forget just how debilitating and consuming IBS can > get. > If anyone has got any tips on how to give up smoking and stay quit I’m > all ears. > NikkiTo make a long story short….my MD feels that acupuncture is sucessful
for a few things..in this order..stopping smoking, IBS, Arthritis and Migraine headaches. I have also read many similiar reports on the web. I suffer from the first two…so that is my next step. If successful I will post again…Pat
Response:
Even in spite of you’re not saying it in so many words, your comments agree with what I said. I’m not trying to lecture, ‘play doctor’ or have the last word, simply my observations of my own symptoms and those I related in my post you quoted, do seem to point to stress if not the root cause, certainly a major contributing factor for most. You, others could be the exception, but I detect a lot of anger in your post that suggests stress in playing a role. I know another family who evey time they went to a certain restaurant with their kids, they (the kids) would promptly throw-up. Sure, maybe the first time, their was a physical cause. First it happened after they got home, then on the way home, then at the resturant, then even before eating. Just going to this one single restaurant, triggered an attack went on for over a year. That, to me, is a conditioned response, like your comment and many others have made that you better know when the closest public washroom is. I think that’s cause and effect. It’s easy to set yourself up to expect a certain outcome. It’s like some people cause their blood pressure to go up just by having it taken or others get sweatly palms if they go on a job interview. Some people get upset stomachs, others get what’s become known as IBS. Of course the diagnosis of IBS is a catch-all phrase like some MD saying you just have a cold or the flue. I think we’re all sick and tired of having IBS, but trying to deny realities isn’t helpful. I know in my own case and several people that also suffer from IBS that those that accept that stress does play a role and deal with as best they can tend to get better. Those that don’t, tragically tend to get worse. I’ve also noticed that those that tend to become defensive about their IBS or believe that there’s got to be something else going on and their doctor just didn’t find it end up running through the phone book chasing doctor after doctor like in the story I related. Bill
Response:
On Fri, 02 May 1997 17:42:21 GMT, bm…@dircon.co.uk (Baz) wrote: >2. Ive had undiagnosed depression for a long time, and my stomach >is only a physical symptom of it. Few depressives seem to have their >bodies unaffected , its a "whole-body" condition. I have focused in on >the physical aspects, to the exclusion of the mental side. My IBS is >an obsession with me, i always check my stomach for wind, etc even >when its not too bad. I think about it all the time, rarely anything >else. I never have an empty head.
I’ve always said that my bipolar, in combination with phobia problems + PTSD have rendered me a complete mess — that my brain can’t tell the difference between purely mental input (like seeing something or reading something) and physical sensation. I react with strong physical upset and sometimes pain to things that should only be making my brain upset. I had an ulcer when I was 17, which was (coincidentally, ha ha) during a very manic phase in my life — but at the time I didn’t recognize my illness for what it was. A year later when I crashed to depression, my ulcer went mostly into remission, until my next manic phase, when it returned. It only came completely under control when I started taking lithium, and my manias became a thing of the past (which I’m very glad of… my manias were *very* extreme and dysphoric, full of violent thoughts and paranoia — not to mention spending my ex’s life savings…). I’ve never thought of my illness as anything other than a full body experience — at the moments when I did attempt suicide in my life, I was full of the worst physical pain of my life as well as mental pain. As far as being constantly full of thoughts, I can relate to that too. I am somewhat better than I used to be, as mania was the time that I really experienced that situation — my brain *never* shut down. Now that the mania is under control, it’s better, but I still have problems with OCD, and that leads me to have some constant thought companions, too. I think a lot about my health in general and my mental health in particular. My biggest problem with that is remembering that discussing this with my friends will rapidly bore them to tears. :) They don’t mind talking about it when I need support, but somehow, they don’t find it as constantly fascinating as I do… . I am always interpreting the least little sign of physical discomfort as some illness or other, only to find that it’s not really true. The closer I come to mental stability though, the less of a problem this is. Anyway, I think that the consideration of one’s problems is a double edged sword. It can lead to self-understanding and a measure of healing, but can also lead one to self-absorption. A pretty fine line. I know I have a hard time telling the difference at times. I guess everyone’s got to decide for themselves when it’s pathological and when it’s not. The first step really is that you’ve recognized the tendency. I’ve yammered on enough. I hope this is the kind of info you were looking for. Take care, and speak more! neko
Response:
On Sat, 03 May 1997 02:58:30 GMT, wab…@flash.net (Wabash Slim) wrote: dose, which sent me off to Potty more & more…the question of my life >became, "Do I want to be depressed though functional, or do I want to >be the undepressed shitmeister?" The gravity of my predicament was
Bwahahaha! This made my day. I can relate sooo strongly to this!! When I first started Nardil, I thought similar thoughts every day, and also when my dose increased. Fortunately this problem has calmed down (at last). I like to think that anyone who can write "shitmeister" must have the sense of humour skills to deal with these problems… take care… neko
Response:
w…@enteract.com (William G. Schlake) wrote: >Most people that suffer from IBS if they’re honest with themselves can >find one or more stressful situations in their life that precessed >their IBS either completely or brought on worse symptoms. Like with >anything, there are exceptions. However, I’d wager the above describes >over 90% of the people that suffer from IBS, and I include myself in >this group. >Known ‘triggers’ include loss of a loved one, illness (non IBS) >problems with family, friends and relationships. Changes in work >situations, layoffs, promotions, transfers, moving, etc., can also >bring the first symptoms or make them worse.
I can trace my IBS back to when I was about 14 but I can think of nothing out of the ordinary that happened then. My home life when I was a child had always been traumatic (my father is a violent alcoholic) but I can honestly not think of a particular trigger which would have started something like this off. I am now 29 and still suffer – it just got worse over the years. >People react to stress differently. Some can’t sleep, others get >depressed, angry, withdrawn, while many exhibit digestive disturbances >or multiple symptoms. For some, what starts as a minor problem can >turn into a all consuming obsession, which with something like IBS >just makes it much worse. It’s a vicious circle. The first step is to >find and accept the root causes, then adjust your lifestyle. >For most that have IBS, there’s one or more foods that can no longer >be tolerated. If you don’t already know what they are, start >monitoring everything you eat and remove those items that cause >symptoms at least until things get closer to normal.
The single most helpful thing I ever did to ease my symptons was give up smoking. I visited a homeopath who diagnosed a number of intolerances: milk, onions, wheat, etc. and tobacco. At the time (not being a tobacco chewer) I didn’t take much notice of the tobacco bit. I just thought that smoking was contributing to my hay fever. After a particularly fun (not!) bout of pnuemonia I gave up smoking (it just seemed to make sense really! ) It wasn’t until the nightmare faded and a particularly tough deadline approached that I started again. Gradually, I realised that I was having more problems with my bowel and the realisiation dawned that it was smoking. I do my best now not to smoke but quite often I forget (!) the problems it causes and slip back into bad habits. I damn good guts ache which lasts a few days generally puts me back on the straight and narrow. I tend to forget just how debilitating and consuming IBS can get. If anyone has got any tips on how to give up smoking and stay quit I’m all ears. Nikki
Response:
William G. Schlake wrote: > Most people that suffer from IBS if they’re honest with themselves can > find one or more stressful situations in their life that precessed > their IBS either completely or brought on worse symptoms. Like with > anything, there are exceptions. However, I’d wager the above describes > over 90% of the people that suffer from IBS, and I include myself in > this group.
Nice of you to include the "disclaimer" that "there are exceptions." Although I will be the first to admit that stress can aggravate almost any medical condition, the sole cause thereof, it is not. I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing the same old "stress" explanation used as the major cause for IBS. Wouldn’t it be nice if life were so simple and presented us with easy answers however, life is not and does not do so. Although I was not "officially" diagnosed with IBS until my 40’s, during the various interviewing processes my mother made the comment that she was always suspicious of the fact that when all my friends and other neighborhood children became ill, they vomitted; but when I became ill, my only symptom would be diarrhea. It appears that I have had IBS since the age of about 2. The fact of the matter is that the diagnosis of IBS is often given for any undiagnosable lower digestive symptom and oftentimes, the advice given the patient on how to handle this chronic disease is erroneous. E.g., some prescribe increased fiber (either solube or not), when in reality fiber will aggravate IBS symptoms when what is needed is *less* fiber and an awareness that certain foods, e.g., pickels, tomatoes, etc., although not usually associated with the fiber label, can also aggravate symptoms. > For most that have IBS, there’s one or more foods that can no longer > be tolerated. If you don’t already know what they are, start > monitoring everything you eat and remove those items that cause > symptoms at least until things get closer to normal.
I cringe when I read the word "most," especially when it is not supported by any scientific evidence. Again, I do not consider myself in the ‘most" category. Oh yes, I too was given the advice to keep a food journal and to reduce or eliminate offending foods and soon discovered that were I to eliminate them, I would probably die because I would not be eating anything. I even had one doctor that said I was lactose intolerant only to find out years later after undergoing a lactose breath test, that I did not. The fact of the matter is that because this diagnosis is a "catch all" for anything not yet scientifically discovered, each person must discover what offends and in what amounts. Sometimes, it is fiber, sometimes fat, fried foods, sometimes milk, sometimes all of these and more. > In my view, the worse thing you can do with IBS is constantly worry > about it. That in itself seems to trigger worse symptoms.
I guess it depends on how one defines "worry." I think it is always a good idea to "be prepared’ in the case of always knowing the location of the nearest bathroom, and making sure when dining out that one does not eat any food that consistently offends. > At this point even the sight of food others ate made this women ’sick’ > so of course she couldn’t go near the lunchroom, let alone go in. This > progressed to the point nobody near her could even have a candy bar, a > coke or a cup of coffee at their desk without making this woman > ’sick’, since she claimed just the sight or smell of food that > bothered her were enough to bring on an attack. I don’t need to be > more graphic what physical reactions she would have almost daily. Of > course this is an extreme case, but should give anyone pause.
I can understand how easy it is to become obsessed when it is sometimes so bad that even the thought of leaving the house produces great fear. However, one should always be careful of over "dramatizing" one’s illness in the presence of others. Simply don’t eat what foods offend, no explanation to others is needed. If one is around "friends" who do not take a simple "no thank you" for an answer, then one must evaluate that friendship, not "fall off the wagon" and eat the offending food due to peer pressure. Also, I think it goes without saying that "if you have to go, you have to go" and don’t fell as if an excuse needs to be made, simply go and stay in the bathroom as long as it is necessary. Once I had to leave a business meeting 3 times in the course of an hour and returned the last time to find the meeting adjorned. Although this caused me stress at the time, I soon learned that if anything of importance is discussed, someone can give you that information at a later time. *It is normal to have to go to the bathroom!* > She decided to give it a try and while the first few days were > difficult, she slowly was able to tolerate more solid food and by the > time she was released from the hospital, could tolerate a regular, > though bland diet. She continued to get better over the course of the > next six months or so and my last memory of her was seeing her coming > back from a food vendor’s truck, happily munching on a giant hot dog > loaded with onions and hot peppers plus chips and a over-sized pickle!
It sounds like a bland diet is what she needed from the very beginning. It’s curius why no one suggested that to her. I have returned to eating almost everything I was told aggravated my symptoms including salads, fries, etc., but I also know the various and different warning signs of trouble and find that often 1-3 Immodium will control them. However, sometimes something that ordinarily does not bother me, does and I take whatever action seems to work. IBS is a frustrating, chronic illness for which there exists no one solution. Any person suffering from a chronic illness learns to cope and cope is what us IBS sufferers have to do. Coping is just a bit easier knowing that one’s friends accept it and don’t try to play amateur physician by offering up unrealistic and simplistic "cures." > Bill
– Davey . . . Open your mind, express your heart, and love your body! WARNING: *Your* tag line may appear here: "A man may perform astonishing feats and comprehend a vast amount of knowledge, and yet have no understanding of himself. But suffering directs a man to look within. If it succeeds, then there, within him, is the beginning of his learning." — Soren Kierkegaard "Everyday is a holiday and every meal a feast."
Response:
>Its chicken-and-egg , what is your opinion ???
I’ve had IBS since my late 20’s, I’m 45 now. I’ve managed to eliminate some things that would rapidly send me off to the porceline easy chair…dairy (lactose), greasy foods, char-broiled foods (DAMN), and dinner with the in-laws…but last summer I started on Zoloft for depression. I was warned there might be some bowel upheavals…NO KIDDING, Jack! After the initial attacks, things calmed down a little, but the Zoloft wasn’t too effective, so the Doc kept increasing the dose, which sent me off to Potty more & more…the question of my life became, "Do I want to be depressed though functional, or do I want to be the undepressed shitmeister?" The gravity of my predicament was only exceeded by its absurdity…which only deepened my depression! (Ever have that quick flash of realization that the universe is in stitches watching you?) I quit the Zoloft after about 4 months and refused to try anymore SSRI’s. Doctors have never been able to find a cause for the IBS so they toss it off as "nerves", even for that they have no ideas, least of all any concern. I’ve pretty much found it’s best to not obsess with it, or even give it the time of day. But then, My case (both IBS and depression) is not nearly as bad as some…its not debilitating….but I don’t go camping anymore, either……… Anti-Spam! Remove * from Email address to reply.
Response:
Hi All, Ive spoken with a few of you about this and there seems to be consensus that I should post something about it. Its seems that a fair number of us have physical symptoms too eg. stomach cramps, constipation, d/h , wind etc. In some cases it seems to bother you as much as the depression itself. Some of you also claim to have IBS (irratable bowel syndrome ) and also post to alt.support.ibs. In my case, I developed bad IBS more than a year ago. I had bad c and stomach pain , etc. I went the route of going to see a gastroentorologist , who gave me loads of tests, x-rays, etc and could dind nothing wrong other than a minor spasm. However , he started me on low dosage amitriptaline (30mg) for "my tendancy towards depression". I guess this is because i started crying in front of him after I had had ibs a month. Anyway, I turned to alternative medicine and tried various other things like restictive diets , vitamins , herbs ,etc. I had a 40% improvement over the last year and am still very bad. I never considered the mental aspect. I knew i was low , but assumed it to be secondary to the ibs. I knew i wasnt going out much, i lost a lot of weight and my friends. I worried a lot if I had to go out, altough it was always ok when i got the courage together. The wosrt that happend was pain and a need to go to the loo. This year i realised that this had gone on too long and that it was not going to go away at all soon. I started crying a lot in public and became even more tired. I was still waking early (4:30) and feeling very rough. I wa unable to get to work on time and was generally withdrawn even more than in the beginning. I got a formal diagnoses of depression last month, and have been on 30mg prozac and now 40mg for the last few days. Not much effect. There are two possible scenarios for me: 1. My IBS has got me down and has resulted in depression. I now have two problems (depression and IBS). The best I can hope for is curing the depression and somehow learning to live with the IBS. 2. Ive had undiagnosed depression for a long time, and my stomach is only a physical symptom of it. Few depressives seem to have their bodies unaffected , its a "whole-body" condition. I have focused in on the physical aspects, to the exclusion of the mental side. My IBS is an obsession with me, i always check my stomach for wind, etc even when its not too bad. I think about it all the time, rarely anything else. I never have an empty head. I have had "bad" thoughts for a long time, preceeding the stomach , but i cant remember much about it. Ive rarely been fully wake for at least 2 years. Well before the stomach started i used to take a lot of "early nights" but never felt better for it. Its chicken-and-egg , what is your opinion ??? Any more info, i will be happy to provide it. Thanks for reading this post. Take care all of you, you are all wonderful. (@ @) ||—————————————————–ooOo-( )-oOoo—-|| || Barry Mann ~ || || bm…@dircon.co.uk ||———————————————————————-||
Response:
Most people that suffer from IBS if they’re honest with themselves can find one or more stressful situations in their life that precessed their IBS either completely or brought on worse symptoms. Like with anything, there are exceptions. However, I’d wager the above describes over 90% of the people that suffer from IBS, and I include myself in this group. Known ‘triggers’ include loss of a loved one, illness (non IBS) problems with family, friends and relationships. Changes in work situations, layoffs, promotions, transfers, moving, etc., can also bring the first symptoms or make them worse. People react to stress differently. Some can’t sleep, others get depressed, angry, withdrawn, while many exhibit digestive disturbances or multiple symptoms. For some, what starts as a minor problem can turn into a all consuming obsession, which with something like IBS just makes it much worse. It’s a vicious circle. The first step is to find and accept the root causes, then adjust your lifestyle. For most that have IBS, there’s one or more foods that can no longer be tolerated. If you don’t already know what they are, start monitoring everything you eat and remove those items that cause symptoms at least until things get closer to normal. In my view, the worse thing you can do with IBS is constantly worry about it. That in itself seems to trigger worse symptoms. I’ll relate a tragic story. It isn’t pretty and not for the squeamish. Many years ago I used to work in an large office with someone who was moderately over weight. I’d guess she was around 160 pounds on a five foot frame. She had several vague digestive symptoms, none clearly defined that resulted in the pronouncement of IBS. She had every medical test in the book…repeatly. Nothing more serious was ever found. If you’re curious how I knew, she sat not more than five feet away from me and I couldn’t help overhear the daily update she was all too willing to share with anyone and everyone that stopped at her desk. Over the course of a couple years her symptoms because much worse and this poor woman got to the point where she convinced herself the only food she could tolerate was two or three varieties of baby food taken a few spoonfuls at a time every hour or so, which she consumed at her work station. Her desk was lined with just about ever over the counter medication there was plus numerous prescriptions. Her weight dropped to I’d guess around 75 pounds. She worked her way through the phone book seeing dozens of different doctors. Nobody helped. At this point even the sight of food others ate made this women ’sick’ so of course she couldn’t go near the lunchroom, let alone go in. This progressed to the point nobody near her could even have a candy bar, a coke or a cup of coffee at their desk without making this woman ’sick’, since she claimed just the sight or smell of food that bothered her were enough to bring on an attack. I don’t need to be more graphic what physical reactions she would have almost daily. Of course this is an extreme case, but should give anyone pause. It should also give you hope. This woman got in a serious traffic accident that required a fairly lengthy hospitalization. Whoever her newest doctor was, put his foot down. She was told either you’re slowly going to start eating a regular diet or that evening was going to transfer her to a mental hospital with her husband’s blessing. She decided to give it a try and while the first few days were difficult, she slowly was able to tolerate more solid food and by the time she was released from the hospital, could tolerate a regular, though bland diet. She continued to get better over the course of the next six months or so and my last memory of her was seeing her coming back from a food vendor’s truck, happily munching on a giant hot dog loaded with onions and hot peppers plus chips and a over-sized pickle! Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->1. My IBS has got me down and has resulted in depression. I now >have two problems (depression and IBS). The best I can hope for is >curing the depression and somehow learning to live with the IBS. >2. Ive had undiagnosed depression for a long time, and my stomach >is only a physical symptom of it. Few depressives seem to have their >bodies unaffected , its a "whole-body" condition. I have focused in on >the physical aspects, to the exclusion of the mental side. My IBS is >an obsession with me, i always check my stomach for wind, etc even >when its not too bad. I think about it all the time, rarely anything >else. I never have an empty head. >I have had "bad" thoughts for a long time, preceeding the stomach , >but i cant remember much about it. Ive rarely been fully wake for at >least 2 years. Well before the stomach started i used to take a lot of >"early nights" but never felt better for it. >Its chicken-and-egg , what is your opinion ??? >Any more info, i will be happy to provide it. Thanks for reading this >post. >Take care all of you, you are all wonderful. > (@ @) >||—————————————————–ooOo-( )-oOoo—-|| >|| Barry Mann ~ || >|| bm…@dircon.co.uk >||———————————————————————-||
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