Question:
>And, I do not go beyond 2x of the >MDR for them either, unlike our dear, departed Linus Pauling.
Nancy, This jumped out at me! This guy’s pic is on my son’s wall of honor. Think he did a report or something. Should I be concerned? I had to go look, yep, he’s there right next to some Dalton guy! Shannon
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Lu, definitely avoid mixing any other drugs with the supplement. A lot of physicians are lacking in information about supplements so maybe you could see a naturopathy doctor or perhaps a psychiatrist confident prescribing multiple psychotropic drugs and knows their herbs too. No, I wouldn’t start it on my own if I were on psychotropic drugs. I think we’ve posted that already =/ Kristine
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>Another point is, I think a number of us have dual diagnosis’s.
I think most of us are dual-diagnosis. I’m PTSD/recovery from alcoholism. At least, that’s what is on all my paperwork. Best, Luanne
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>Lu, definitely avoid mixing any other drugs with the supplement.
Thanks, Kris. I will be sticking to what "works" for me. (although sometimes, I wonder????). Thanks for letting me call you tonight too. Merry Christmas, Luanne
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Hi Shannon! > >MDR for them either, unlike our dear, departed Linus Pauling. > This jumped out at me! This guy’s pic is on my son’s wall of honor. Think he > did a report or something. Should I be concerned?
If you son is into physical sciences, then Linus Pauling is a ‘good guy’. I think that he won a Nobel prize for physics … please don’t quote me, but look him up on the web; there have to be references about him. If your son is into self-medication, especially with vitamins, then you might want to look Pauling up more thoroughly … he recommended overdosing with vitamins as a cure for the common cold … and other virii. His science was better served when he stayed where he had been trained, but he had quite a mind … now deceased. > I had to go look, yep, he’s there right next to some Dalton guy!
Timothy Dalton? The worst James Bond?? Don’t know a Dalton that would be similar to Pauling; sorry. :/ Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
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"Nancy" <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message
news:a0a8f4$as3@dispatch.concentric.net… > Hi Shannon! > > >MDR for them either, unlike our dear, departed Linus Pauling. > > This jumped out at me! This guy’s pic is on my son’s wall of honor. Think > he > > did a report or something. Should I be concerned? > If you son is into physical sciences, then Linus Pauling is a ‘good guy’. I > think that he won a Nobel prize for physics … please don’t quote me, but > look him up on the web; there have to be references about him.
Pauling is the only person to ever win two unshared Nobel prizes; in 1954 (Chemistry), and in 1962 (Peace). Pauling won his chemistry Nobel for his study of chemical bonds, and how they relate to the structure of complex molecules. > If your son > is into self-medication, especially with vitamins, then you might want to > look Pauling up more thoroughly … he recommended overdosing with vitamins > as a cure for the common cold … and other virii. His science was better > served when he stayed where he had been trained, but he had quite a mind … > now deceased.
He first proposed, and demonstrated, that terminal cancer patients lived five times longer if given multi-gram quantities of vitamin C. Because of the skepticism of other scientists of his day, it has taken forty years for that finding to once again be given serious consideration. Only later did he propose the concepts of orthomolecular medicine. > > I had to go look, yep, he’s there right next to some Dalton guy! > Timothy Dalton? The worst James Bond?? Don’t know a Dalton that would be > similar to Pauling; sorry. :/
Dalton, also a chemist/physicist, who proposed that the smallest indivisible particle of an element is the atom, perhaps two hundred years ago. Larry Professional Chemist (Environmental Toxicology)
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Well, I can only agree… Lotte, Your Own Swede,( who knows no physics, but some Nobel Laureates.) 
"Larry Hoover" <larryhoo…@sympatico.ca> skrev i meddelandet news:4f5W7.9759$eo1.1425397@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Nancy" <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message > news:a0a8f4$as3@dispatch.concentric.net… > > Hi Shannon! > > > >MDR for them either, unlike our dear, departed Linus Pauling. > > > This jumped out at me! This guy’s pic is on my son’s wall of honor. > Think > > he > > > did a report or something. Should I be concerned? > > If you son is into physical sciences, then Linus Pauling is a ‘good guy’. > I > > think that he won a Nobel prize for physics … please don’t quote me, but > > look him up on the web; there have to be references about him. > Pauling is the only person to ever win two unshared Nobel prizes; in 1954 > (Chemistry), and in 1962 (Peace). Pauling won his chemistry Nobel for his > study of chemical bonds, and how they relate to the structure of complex > molecules. > > If your son > > is into self-medication, especially with vitamins, then you might want to > > look Pauling up more thoroughly … he recommended overdosing with > vitamins > > as a cure for the common cold … and other virii. His science was better > > served when he stayed where he had been trained, but he had quite a mind > … > > now deceased. > He first proposed, and demonstrated, that terminal cancer patients lived > five times longer if given multi-gram quantities of vitamin C. Because of > the skepticism of other scientists of his day, it has taken forty years for > that finding to once again be given serious consideration. Only later did he > propose the concepts of orthomolecular medicine. > > > I had to go look, yep, he’s there right next to some Dalton guy! > > Timothy Dalton? The worst James Bond?? Don’t know a Dalton that would be > > similar to Pauling; sorry. :/ > Dalton, also a chemist/physicist, who proposed that the smallest indivisible > particle of an element is the atom, perhaps two hundred years ago. > Larry > Professional Chemist (Environmental Toxicology)
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You’re more than welcome and trust me, when my struggles can be used to help someone else then I count them worth more than just my own struggles. I count them as a gift for someone else. Be cool….and assertive too hon! Kristine – Merry Christmas Lu
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Another point is, I think a number of us have dual diagnosis’s. I know mine is ‘major depression – ptsd – dissociative identity disorder’…..so I’m not sure that something like the Rhodiola would help with everything?? And I would be afraid to try and mix it with meds myself. It’s only with this ‘cocktail’ of meds that I’m able to function. I need something for the major depression and something for the PTSD/DID. Cary, I’d appreciate your thoughts on this?? tiny dancer "LuanneMarie" <luannema…@aol.comstopjunk> wrote in message
news:20011223154538.24469.00001035@mb-fc.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >As stated above, I THINK YOU WOULD BE DAFT TO MIX IT WITH MEDS – until such > >time as reliable and easily available studies find it to be safe. Only my > >opinion, but that is what I think. > That’s what I was wondering, Cary – have you ever taken any of the other kinds > of meds that PTSD’ers take – you know, the anti-depressants, the anti-anxiety > drugs, etc…,? That’s what I was interested in hearing about. > My PTSD is VERY severe. Many members of this group have seen my "ups" and > "Downs" and I made a few enemies even, when before I got my meds stabilized. > Only hope that all of those folks have forgiven me. Anyway, I am always > curious to hear about new things to help PTSD, but I am wondering what you can > mix Rhodiola with or not mix it with? Do you just take that, or anything else? > You see, the severity of my PTSD is such that I cannot stop taking my meds to > try something else. How severe is yours? Were you lucky enough to be able to > take the rhodiola at the advice of your doctor or do to take anything else > besides it? > I do know that many other countries are up on things before American countries > are. I know that I’ve personally tried the following, which didn’t do squat > for me: Ginseng, St.John’s Wart, and Kava-Kava. Just heard lately that there > is no connection to St. John’s Wart to helping with depression, but who knows? > Maybe with the right dosage and from a decent company, it might help with mild > depression? > I’m just trying to learn more hear. > Best, > Luanne
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> Hi from the aforementioned English guy 
)
Hi Cary! > As stated above, I THINK YOU WOULD BE DAFT TO MIX IT WITH MEDS – until such > time as reliable and easily available studies find it to be safe. Only my > opinion, but that is what I think.
We agree. > > Also, I believe that the medical system in the UK is like one big HMO over > > here would be. I’m not sure that their symptoms have yet qualified them > to > > be taken care of by psychiatrists and therapists, > Yes. They have. PTSD is totally recognised as a treatable and diagnosable > disorder utilizing the DSM-IV criteria, exactly as in the USA. But the > British ‘health service’ is uttering it’s dying breath and after being > promised an appointment a year and a half ago, I am still waiting for any > kind of help. The intellectual recognition of the illness is there, but the > actual resources for help are horrifically LOW, not only with PTSD but all > mental health problems.
I am really sorry that you are qualified, but not yet sufficiently symptomatic to qualify for a ‘fast lane’ service … well, maybe not: to be sufficiently symptomatic to qualify seems to mean that you would be one step short of murder or suicide which are both not unusual for those with untreated PTSD. :/ I do not revile nor dispute your research. It could be invaluable for folks who have little or no access to professional help. I have no problem with your sharing your research on the net with others in your same situation. However, Luanne is being treated by a mental health professional group and IMO really would not benefit from leaving this help for any reason (including a smaller pill cocktail) … as she is often tempted to do. :/ What I’m trying to say also includes the fact that I have forwarded both your and Larry’s posts to the professionals who treat me, for their information. If enough folks were to try self-medicating with herbs like SJW or RR, as well as getting prescription pharmaceuticals, there could be some interesting events in Emergency Rooms on this side of the pond. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
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"tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HxrV7.57354$0t.9675739@typhoon.southeast.rr.com… > Another point is, I think a number of us have dual diagnosis’s. I know mine > is ‘major depression – ptsd – dissociative identity disorder’…..so I’m not > sure that something like the Rhodiola would help with everything?? And I > would be afraid to try and mix it with meds myself. It’s only with this > ‘cocktail’ of meds that I’m able to function. I need something for the > major depression and something for the PTSD/DID. Cary, I’d appreciate your > thoughts on this??
Simple answer Tiny – not the one you are hoping for perhaps, but the only sensible one. DON’T mix rhodiola rosea into the equation. While we know Rhodiola Rosea is safe on it’s own, we DON’T have access to any experimental data involving the cocktail you are on. If this is what keeps you balanced, you stick with it. Maybe more data will surface as time passes on. All the best, Cary )
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"Nancy" <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message
news:a05m1b$6ii@dispatch.concentric.net… > I am really sorry that you are qualified, but not yet sufficiently > symptomatic to qualify for a ‘fast lane’ service … well, maybe not: to be > sufficiently symptomatic to qualify seems to mean that you would be one step > short of murder or suicide which are both not unusual for those with > untreated PTSD. :/
Thanks for the feedback, Nancy. ‘Tis a frustrating situation indeed, but I don’t feel such pressing need for it now, thankfully. Over here, I think you would actually have to have DONE a murder or committed suicide to get any real help. I am in one of – if not THE – worst areas of the UK for mental health resources apparently, so that is a comfort – NOT! Ah well . . . . > I do not revile nor dispute your research. It could be invaluable for folks > who have little or no access to professional help. I have no problem with > your sharing your research on the net with others in your same situation.
Thanks for that ) > However, Luanne is being treated by a mental health professional group and > IMO really would not benefit from leaving this help for any reason > (including a smaller pill cocktail) … as she is often tempted to do. :/
Again, my answer is simple. If someone is getting help and experiencing any kind of turnaround, then it is logical to stick with it. As I said to Tiny, hopefully more data will be translated or be done in the West specifically in relation to mixing with other meds. Until then, everyone should be cautious, I think. Rhodiola’s safety is verified over and over, but not in experiments that mixed it with meds – at least, not named meds. Better to err on side of caution on this issue, I think. > What I’m trying to say also includes the fact that I have forwarded both > your and Larry’s posts to the professionals who treat me, for their > information.
Well that is wonderful. Hopefully some awareness will build. > If enough folks were to try self-medicating with herbs like > SJW or RR, as well as getting prescription pharmaceuticals, there could be > some interesting events in Emergency Rooms on this side of the pond.
Agreed, Nancy. I just wish we knew which antidepressants the Russians mixed it successfully with. It would all be so useful. Still, hopefully that info will come out soon. Until then, people, please don’t do it! We want you to be as safe as possible. Cary
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"LuanneMarie" <luannema…@aol.comstopjunk> wrote in message
news:20011223121553.20257.00001058@mb-ba.aol.com… snipped version: > >I don’t remember any of them posting that they are on herbs plus > >prescription meds. > I know…Cary’s never posted whether or not he has taken any "presribed"
meds I thought I had addressed it, and I definitely should have if I didn’t, but NO, I am not on any meds. They simply don’t like me. I did try SSRI’s and I know I wrote about that. I appear to have had an allergic reaction with lots of vomiting etc, but was kept on them anyway by people who should have known better. My digestive system has never recovered, not even with Rhodiola. > Boy, I would LOVE to be able to take something else besides what I am on..you > know, cut down on the ‘cocktail’ or replace something, if that makes sense, but > I get so scared that something else might not work and messing up the whole > thing – you know what I mean, eh?
Just wait. Hopefully they will research this or release research already done into the matter. Then we will know. For what it is worth though, I know it must be frustrating. At least this is a new hope on the horizon for the future, possibly. Cary
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"LuanneMarie" <luannema…@aol.comstopjunk> wrote in message
news:20011223154538.24469.00001035@mb-fc.aol.com… snipped version: > Cary – have you ever taken any of the other kinds > of meds that PTSD’ers take – you know, the anti-depressants, the anti-anxiety > drugs, etc…,? That’s what I was interested in hearing about.
I took lustral (sertraline’s UK name), seroxat (Paroxatine’s UK name) & Prozac (Fluoxatine’s UK name). NOT all together! First was Lustral – within an hour of taking it my eyes bulged and my jaw tensed for the very first time. I had people round to share a meal at the time and when it hit me, I found myself springing into what I now realise was an extreme reaction. Adrenaline surged through me and I ended up clearing plates before they had finished, then on grabbing the last plate, I realised what was happening and was profoundly embarrassed. Stayed on Lustral at my doctor’s insistence, despite my clearly stating that it didn’t seem right and was really upsetting my system. Only made me lethargic with what I think now was an imagined and very minor increase in coping. Tremors were bad too. Nausea was incredibly awful and persistent. Next came Seroxat. In short, same side effects but with the bonus that I became manic. Not a real bonus but it did enable me to study psychology! The trade off was that everything at home ground to a halt as I could only do so much, and the psychology came first as I was trying to understand my trauma and illness etc. After 6 months I came off. It was a very difficult thing for me to come off, but the way my body was reacting made continuation an utter impossibility. Finally I was put on Prozac. I was very optimistic about this, but on taking the first tablet I vomited badly. I decided to open the capsules and start with a really tiny dosage and work up to build a tolerance. So I began with one third of a capsule, felt REALLY sick but kept with it. Then after a week I increased little by little. As soon as I hit three quarters, I was vomiting again. Eventually I got to one whole capsule, and I did experience a sense of being less worried by stuff, but the side effects were just so awful that I couldn’t tolerate it. To conclude then, none of the SSRI antidepressants agreed with me. The side effects were the same with all of them; the nausea, the jaw tension (bruxism), the panic attacks, the awful stomach upsets (which have never stopped even when off the AD’s!), the tremors etc. Any lift in mood was minor compared to this wealth of side-effects. Really disappointing as I had really needed the help and was only just coming to some very heavy flashbacks – though I didn’t realise that was the name for them at the time. This makes it so surprising that Rhodiola Rosea does all the best bits without the side effects. You can probably imagine why I am so chuffed! > My PTSD is VERY severe. Many members of this group have seen my "ups" and > "Downs" and I made a few enemies even, when before I got my meds stabilized. > Only hope that all of those folks have forgiven me. Anyway, I am always > curious to hear about new things to help PTSD, but I am wondering what you can > mix Rhodiola with or not mix it with? Do you just take that, or anything
else? I *JUST* TAKE RHODIOLA ROSEA. No mixing. > You see, the severity of my PTSD is such that I cannot stop taking my meds to > try something else.
Well that kind of answers your question then. Stick with what is working for you at present, keeping you level, and just know that maybe something is coming soon, with an eventual study or two that shows it is safe for you to use, hopefully. > How severe is yours?
I can only say that I satisfied 95% of the DSM-IV criteria when diagnosed, and was told there was no doubt I had PTSD. However, I have also been told it is like a chain of PTSD’s because I have it not as a result of one incident, but lots of systematic abuse. Initially, for the first 17 years until I took the SSRI antidepressants, it was mainly an inability to function, which I adapted to by trying to be creative in various ways, rather than confronting the ’shame’ of not being able to work, a real stigma in my family. Basically I had no diagnosis for an awful lot of years and had to adapt to the illness to make life as bearable as possible. So there was much less socialisation for a start, because with it came increases in stress and also triggering. Then, I got counselling at the same time as trying the first SSRI (lustral) and hit on the biggest incident in my past and from there it was a rollercoaster of flashbacks. I was triggering all over the place and finding life so excruciatingly unbearable. I cannot put that period into words that convey its intensity, but in came a host of side-effects. Until a year or so ago though, things were awful. I was hardly able to get about. I was prone to really awful aches and pains in my bones, seemingly. So much was happening beneath the surface, yet if I ever went to my doctor or had tests there was little to go on, except my eventual PTSD diagnosis. Even a walk around the block would trigger me terribly. I couldn’t even wash up or make tea for myself. No housework. It was awful and I felt really like a hundred year old in the guise of a young person. A year or so ago, I discovered that I could exercise without being triggered, but only if I swam at the end. Whether it relates to my drowning experience, I don’t know, but something about floating and gentle swimming made it possible to quell the triggering that usually came from exercise. As a result, I was able to build up the amount I did and I can now go to the gym and do a good workout like anyone. So that was a step forward, anyway. The difference Rhodiola Rosea has made is that I can do that, and then go on to do other things also. I can do it, then go into town and do shopping, or load the dishwasher, or hoover, or write or paint. . . . . I have many more options and the major trigger of activity overload is hardly present at all. It is just like being healthy again. Does this answer your question? > Were you lucky enough to be able to > take the rhodiola at the advice of your doctor or do to take anything else > besides it?
NO. My doctor barely knows about PTSD, let alone anything that might specifically help it. And the people I am waiting to see for therapy do not have anything to do with medication. They are cognitive psychotherapists, not psychiatrists. To be frank, the head psychiatrist in my area is a very dodgy guy anyway and has a very bad reputation. I still recall the excitement on his face at thinking of putting me on lithium, as though it were a new toy to open at Christmas! My own doctor has been incredibly eager to put me on antidepressants, but I have resisted since I had such an awful time on the three I tried, which were all SSRI’s. I just didn’t want to do more damage to my body, and I feel that the side-effect profiles of the AD’s he offered me, though different, do not paint much more of a solution. I may have had to try them though, if not for Rhodiola Rosea. As it is though, I feel far from depressed! Even at my worst, I think it was hard for my doctor to understand that clinical depression is different to reactive depression to lack of support when dealing with a very testing illness. I remember going to group therapy and repeatedly being the most up person there. I just got frustrated and sad at times that I couldn’t have a normal life. That is a healthy reaction in my opinion, not depression. > I do know that many other countries are up on things before American countries > are. I know that I’ve personally tried the following, which didn’t do squat > for me: Ginseng,
Ginseng is also an adaptogen, but it is slightly more likely to cause minor side effects like headaches. You also have to use it for quite a while before it really starts working. I too dismissed ginseng as useless, but I never gave it long enough. There are also different variations of ginseng; Siberian, Indian, Korean etc. They exhibit different actions on the body. It is far more complicated than most people realise. To put toxicity in context though, ginseng is hardly toxic, but you could take four times more rhodiola rosea before you had any problem, according to what I have read on it. > St.John’s Wart,
NOT an adaptogen. It has unknown specific actions on the body, and really I wouldn’t take it until they know exactly how it works. I am sticking to adaptogens because they are fundamentally proven to be much safer than other types of herb. Even moreso considering the latest they have found out about > Kava-Kava.
Wonderful relaxant qualities, but it has been linked to liver problems and is about to be withdrawn from the market in the UK from today. AFAIK there have been 18 cases of liver failure, possibly from overuse which is a real temptation with something so powerful. This is a good contrast to Rhodiola Rosea, which, despite it’s calming qualities, will keep you awake at nights if you go anywhere near too high a dose – though it is worth pointing out here that the calm from rhodiola is not sedative at all, instead it simply boosts emotional resilience so that you are less affected by things in a negative way, and that means no dulling of senses as with AD’s. I started out higher at the full Solgar level and have got down to 500mg per day, with great success and no side effects. > Just heard lately that there > is no connection to St. John’s Wart to helping with depression, but who
knows? Mmmm. More research needed, methinks. It just gave me a headache. > Maybe with the right dosage and from a decent company, it might help with mild > depression?
For someone not taking any meds, then I would say definitely worth a try as I am so much better and freer. Not to do if you are on meds though, until studies prove otherwise, or until studies that proved otherwise are translated and made publicly … read more »
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>As stated above, I THINK YOU WOULD BE DAFT TO MIX IT WITH MEDS – until such >time as reliable and easily available studies find it to be safe. Only my >opinion, but that is what I think.
That’s what I was wondering, Cary – have you ever taken any of the other kinds of meds that PTSD’ers take – you know, the anti-depressants, the anti-anxiety drugs, etc…,? That’s what I was interested in hearing about. My PTSD is VERY severe. Many members of this group have seen my "ups" and "Downs" and I made a few enemies even, when before I got my meds stabilized. Only hope that all of those folks have forgiven me. Anyway, I am always curious to hear about new things to help PTSD, but I am wondering what you can mix Rhodiola with or not mix it with? Do you just take that, or anything else? You see, the severity of my PTSD is such that I cannot stop taking my meds to try something else. How severe is yours? Were you lucky enough to be able to take the rhodiola at the advice of your doctor or do to take anything else besides it? I do know that many other countries are up on things before American countries are. I know that I’ve personally tried the following, which didn’t do squat for me: Ginseng, St.John’s Wart, and Kava-Kava. Just heard lately that there is no connection to St. John’s Wart to helping with depression, but who knows? Maybe with the right dosage and from a decent company, it might help with mild depression? I’m just trying to learn more hear. Best, Luanne
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My psychologist is very ‘into’ herbs and supplements for his own personal use, but doesn’t recommend them for me because my symptoms are too severe for herbal’s only and he says ‘never’ to mix them with prescription meds. I too take zoloft and he says especially not to mix St. Johns Wart with it. As for alcohol…..guess I must be unusual but I can have a couple glasses of wine and relax, socialize with people, but it’s not something I use daily, or even weekly, usually only when we are at a party or have guests and I never ‘get drunk’ so I’m not effected by the ’sobering up’ thing. There have been a few times when I drink a lot to ease pain….but I’m in control the whole time, know just how much it takes to get to the point where ‘it doesn’t hurt’ anymore, and that’s all I’m aiming for. Sort of like ‘throwing pain pills’ at a physical hurt. I know when I’ve reached the place where the pain eases and then I’ve ‘had enough.’ Usually switch over to 7-UP then. I can see where this method doesn’t work for most people, just very fortunate to not have an addictive personality. If we are at a family gathering or something and I see hubby ‘really enjoying himself’, I know it’s only a glass or two of wine for me because I’ll be driving home later. tiny dancer "LuanneMarie" <luannema…@aol.comstopjunk> wrote in message
news:20011223121553.20257.00001058@mb-ba.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >While > >they have some good anecdotal results, there are lots of folks who have/had > >good anecdotal results with alcohol too … for a time. > Alcohol helped me too…..for about 17 years. I often tell people I never had > any problems – until I got sober! > >I don’t remember any of them posting that they are on herbs plus > >prescription meds. > I know…Cary’s never posted whether or not he has taken any "presribed" meds – > only the herbs. > Boy, I would LOVE to be able to take something else besides what I am on..you > know, cut down on the ‘cocktail’ or replace something, if that makes sense, but > I get so scared that something else might not work and messing up the whole > thing – you know what I mean, eh? > Best, > Luanne
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"Nancy" <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message
news:a04nu1$6il@dispatch.concentric.net… > Actually, I believe that St John’s Wort is the ‘natural’ (read unpurified) > version of zoloft. In the dosage I take and the supervision I have from the > psychiatrist et al, I would not add this herb to my meds; I’m already on the > max ’safe’ dosage of zoloft … why add more?
Hi from the aforementioned English guy ) My feeling is that whilst I know Russian studies found success mixing Rhodiola with antidepressants, we don’t know which ones and therefore I REALLY think it is NOT something to try. We just don’t know what it would do until someone translates those studies and makes them available in some way outside Russia. Rhodiola Rosea works well on its own (for me definitely and possibly for Sue Cole’s daughter too, check out her posts) and I would say that it is worth a try if you have PTSD, but not in any silly way that would mix it and cause possible complications. It doesn’t cure PTSD, but it does give you more physical stability by normalizing your system in various ways. Combining Rhodiola Rosea with Zispin (Mirtazapine) could be dangerous since Zispin doesn’t like anything that has an effect on MAO pathways, as Rhodiola does. It also balances serotonin, adrenaline and dopamine pathways according to a wealth of research, and I don’t think there is much sense in taking something which does all that if you are already on something that is intended to do that. Could cause problems and WHY take the risk? > > Is there anyone on here who has used it with their meds and noticed a > > difference, or must you NOT use your meds with it?
As stated above, I THINK YOU WOULD BE DAFT TO MIX IT WITH MEDS – until such time as reliable and easily available studies find it to be safe. Only my opinion, but that is what I think. > The folks that have posted here from the UK seem, to me, to be > self-medicating with herbs rather than alcohol or pharmaceuticals. While > they have some good anecdotal results, there are lots of folks who have/had > good anecdotal results with alcohol too … for a time.
I should clarify because it would be easy to assume that I am just some numbskull posting either to spam or with good intent, but naive all the same. My PTSD got to the point where I was physically and emotionally going into oblivion. Whereas former years had not been so bad, suddenly the illness was increasing dramatically through a host of surprising indirect symptoms. PTSD really was getting the better of me. I couldn’t hardly exercise because it triggered my system and I went straight into overload. I was triggering right, left and centre, I was in a state of despair and could not use antidepressants because my body just wouldn’t tolerate them. So, you see, it was a rapid downhill descent. I did a MASS of research into Rhodiola Rosea before putting any in my body. That research was carried out in part via the National Library of Medicine’s PUBMED website http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=PubMed and I was surprised to find that though we have not really been aware of this herb and other ADAPTOGENS in the West, there is a wealth of over 1000 studies into them. Rhodiola Rosea, like other adaptogens, is non-toxic – that is part of what ‘adaptogen’ classification MEANS! Even Western medicine regards Rhodiola Rosea as an adaptogen as you will see from studies so there really is so much less risk than even using St. Johns Wort, which exerts an influence in a certain direction, rather than simply bringing the body to its own optimum balance. For that matter, they don’t even know how SJW works yet, while they do know how Rhodiola works. > Also, I believe that the medical system in the UK is like one big HMO over > here would be. I’m not sure that their symptoms have yet qualified them to > be taken care of by psychiatrists and therapists,
Yes. They have. PTSD is totally recognised as a treatable and diagnosable disorder utilizing the DSM-IV criteria, exactly as in the USA. But the British ‘health service’ is uttering it’s dying breath and after being promised an appointment a year and a half ago, I am still waiting for any kind of help. The intellectual recognition of the illness is there, but the actual resources for help are horrifically LOW, not only with PTSD but all mental health problems. > or, if they have been > qualifed, they seem to have given up on the medical profession’s help.
I am not sure if you are talking about Doctors giving up on the medical profession’s help, or people such as myself doing so. Well, as you can see, I would very much like some responsible and aware help, but it is a long waiting game. Also, I have literally been poisoned for 18 months on antidepressants that damaged my system because they insisted I was depressed and I wasn’t. I was disheartened at times and relating my frustration at knowing there was something wrong, but I didn’t know what and they weren’t really that good at diagnosing it after years of abuse. They would have picked up on it after a plane crash, but not something many calendars ago. That was too easy to dismiss as hypochondria. In the end, I got an independent diagnosis, and even then it was not easy because the health service guy who finally assessed me told me that he had been told before seeing me to deny I had PTSD because resources were low. That is the situation over here. > I don’t remember any of them posting that they are on herbs plus > prescription meds.
I certainly haven’t. I have posted against such usage. On this my position is very clear. NOT WORTH THE RISK! > > Kris, Risa, Nancy? You gals know anything about Rhodiola Rosea? I trust > your > > judgement when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Come on people, get informed! While well known people’s opinions certainly have value, I suggest you do at least check the vast amount of medical research data online at the aforementioned http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=PubMed link if you want to get informed. I am not just plucking my information from thin air. I have done an awful lot of hard work to get informed. You can do the same if you are curious. It doesn’t take long to enter Rhodiola Rosea into the search box and then see study after study, from East, West and wherever, confirming it’s safety and indeed *protectiveness* of good health. EVERY STUDY FINDS THAT Rhodiola Rosea IS AN ADAPTOGEN – and adaptogens are by nature safe in a way that cannot be said for SJW yet, they restore the body to it’s optimum state by balancing hormonal imbalances (including adrenaline) etc. This has numerous knock on effects that are beneficial. That they also improve handling of stress is another characteristic of adaptogens, and a very real one too, but only because the body is no longer in a chemical state of DISTRESS. Antidepressants and SJW push your body chemistry in one direction. That is to say that they might, for example, increase serotonin. That is fine for people who are low in serotonin, but the theory that depression is caused by low serotonin is not without exception. It is at best a rule rather than an absolute. Adaptogens do not push your body chemistry in ANY way other than towards a healthy balance. I know it is a startling concept, but it is a scientific fact and getting informed about it is vital common sense. Information is power, after all. Off the cuff dismissal is disempowerment, even if well intentioned caution is at its root. Just because your doctor hasn’t had time to hear about something that has only been well-known in the East, doesn’t mean that thing is not validated or researched. *PLEASE* AT LEAST LOOK UP THE *FACTS*. It is all there in print at the National Library of Medicine’s website, as linked above ) > I asked my therapist and psychiatrist about this. So far, they are not > familiar with it and my psychiatrist doesn’t read Russian so she cannot look > up the Russian study reports to see what she thinks about using Rhodiola.
Hmmmm. Well your therapist and psychiatrist can easily follow the link and get informed then. It is there in plain English. The abstracts and conclusions are there for everyone, and if they want, they can even pay for the full studies, including translated ones where necessary, just as with any other study. For something with such potential and proven safety, it makes me mad that they just continue pushing drugs that cause side-effects! They really ought to be informed on the matter. > IMO, elevated uses of vitamins and minerals is different than adding herbs > to the pharmaceutical cocktail I take.
An interesting point and in the most part I definitely agree, though last night I was reading that they are coming to think that adaptogens were a key part of Ancient man’s diet, as vital as the key vitamins, and that while they haven’t got as far as actually stating daily recommended dosage, it might not be far off as it seems to be common sense. Interesting indeed. I hope that readers will get their information before making rash judgements. It is all out there. You just have to look. This is a cultural issue, nothing more, and it could be stopping a lot of you from improving your health. I thought I was beyond help, but I definitely wasn’t. This largely ignored thing, in the West at least, has improved my life in leaps and bounds, and I don’t think I am that unusual! ) Go research it yourselves: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=PubMed All the best, Cary ;o)
Response:
"Cary Charles" <c…@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_epV7.9895$DE6.1606782@news1.cableinet.net… > I did a MASS of research into Rhodiola Rosea before putting any in my body. > That research was carried out in part via the National Library of Medicine’s > PUBMED website > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=PubMed and I > was surprised to find that though we have not really been aware of this herb > and other ADAPTOGENS in the West, there is a wealth of over 1000 studies > into them.
I, too, did a mass of research before I ordered some Rhodiola (it still hasn’t arrived…..too many Xmas packages in the mail). I first heard of this stuff well over a year ago, but there just wasn’t enough information to make an informed decision about it. I posted a couple of links not long ago, giving decent summaries about this herb. http://www.calivita.com/articles/rhodiolin_soon.html http://s-content.intramedicine.com/corp-samples/prof-rhodiola.htm And, if you go to the following website, there’s a good link to scientific abstracts on the page. http://www.anti-aging-guide.com/RhodiolaRosea.html > Rhodiola Rosea, like other adaptogens, is non-toxic – that is part of what > ‘adaptogen’ classification MEANS! Even Western medicine regards Rhodiola > Rosea as an adaptogen as you will see from studies so there really is so > much less risk than even using St. Johns Wort, which exerts an influence in > a certain direction, rather than simply bringing the body to its own optimum > balance. For that matter, they don’t even know how SJW works yet, while they > do know how Rhodiola works.
Here’s a couple definitions of "adaptogen": "By definition, an adaptogen is an herb that 1) must show a non-specific effect (raising the power of resistance to toxins of a physical, chemical or biological nature) 2) normalizes, independent of the type of pathological condition. For example if an adaptagen is taken to normalize blood sugar, it should increase the blood sugar level if it is low, and decrease the blood sugar level if it is high, or bring it back into balance. So if the blood sugar level is normal, a true adaptagen should not change it. 3) must be harmless and disturb the body functions as little as possible. Accordingly, adaptogens are to strengthen the non-specific powers of resistance to non-infectious stresses, raise the general performance capacity during stress situations and thereby prevent diseases that could develop due to over-stressing the organism." "Adaptogens, by definition, are natural plant substances which : (1) increase the body’s non-specific resistance (or ability to cope with internal and external stresses), (2) normalize the functions of the bodily systems, and (3) are entirely safe (no negative side effects). " > > IMO, elevated uses of vitamins and minerals is different than adding herbs > > to the pharmaceutical cocktail I take. > An interesting point and in the most part I definitely agree, though last > night I was reading that they are coming to think that adaptogens were a key > part of Ancient man’s diet, as vital as the key vitamins, and that while > they haven’t got as far as actually stating daily recommended dosage, it > might not be far off as it seems to be common sense. Interesting indeed.
I’d certainly agree that vitamin and mineral supplementation is an entirely different thing than using herbal medications. One is food, the other is drugs. It’s interesting to consider the historical and cultural use of herbs. Many herbs are very unpalatable, whereas others are quite tasty. Culinary herbs, according to one theory, are simply medicinal herbs that taste good. Their health-giving attributes and local availability have become so enmeshed in a particular culture that we now see them as part of the cuisine, rather than as "tonic herbs". I can’t think of a culinary herb I’ve ever studied that doesn’t have potent medicinal an nutritional effects. You should go to Medline, and see what they’re discovering about turmeric. Hundreds of studies published this year alone. There’s more to turmeric than curry. There’s nothing particularly nasty about herbs; over 70% of all prescription meds are directly or indirectly from plants. The pretty garden flower, the foxglove, is the source of the heart medication digitalis. There’s nothing weird or unusual about foxglove, so long as you use it according to the accumulated cultural knowledge available to any of us. Used inappropriately, it will certainly kill you. Caution is one thing. Fear is quite another. I hope that one is not being confused for the other. Larry
Response:
>While >they have some good anecdotal results, there are lots of folks who have/had >good anecdotal results with alcohol too … for a time.
Alcohol helped me too…..for about 17 years. I often tell people I never had any problems – until I got sober! >I don’t remember any of them posting that they are on herbs plus >prescription meds.
I know…Cary’s never posted whether or not he has taken any "presribed" meds – only the herbs. Boy, I would LOVE to be able to take something else besides what I am on..you know, cut down on the ‘cocktail’ or replace something, if that makes sense, but I get so scared that something else might not work and messing up the whole thing – you know what I mean, eh? Best, Luanne
Response:
Hi All; Been noticing a lot of posts, mainly from a gentleman in England about this stuff. What’s up with it? Can someone tell me about this new "miracle herb?" Gosh, if only things were simple where some of us simply could take an herb or supplement that would truly help. Last I heard was that St John’s Wart is totally useless (I kinda figured it was) and I’m so glad I stayed on my regular meds instead of trying it. Is there anyone on here who has used it with their meds and noticed a difference, or must you NOT use your meds with it? I’ve seen some huge advertisement that a lady named Marie has posted, but that’s all it is, is an advertisement on how/where to buy it, nothing so much really about this wonder drug. Kris, Risa, Nancy? You gals know anything about Rhodiola Rosea? I trust your judgement when it comes to this kind of stuff. Thanks for informing the "uninformed" here. (me!) Best, Luanne
Response:
Hi Lu! > Gosh, if only things were simple where some of us simply could take an herb or > supplement that would truly help. Last I heard was that St John’s Wart is > totally useless (I kinda figured it was) and I’m so glad I stayed on my regular > meds instead of trying it.
Actually, I believe that St John’s Wort is the ‘natural’ (read unpurified) version of zoloft. In the dosage I take and the supervision I have from the psychiatrist et al, I would not add this herb to my meds; I’m already on the max ’safe’ dosage of zoloft … why add more? > Is there anyone on here who has used it with their meds and noticed a > difference, or must you NOT use your meds with it?
The folks that have posted here from the UK seem, to me, to be self-medicating with herbs rather than alcohol or pharmaceuticals. While they have some good anecdotal results, there are lots of folks who have/had good anecdotal results with alcohol too … for a time. YMMV Also, I believe that the medical system in the UK is like one big HMO over here would be. I’m not sure that their symptoms have yet qualified them to be taken care of by psychiatrists and therapists, or, if they have been qualifed, they seem to have given up on the medical profession’s help. I don’t remember any of them posting that they are on herbs plus prescription meds. > Kris, Risa, Nancy? You gals know anything about Rhodiola Rosea? I trust your > judgement when it comes to this kind of stuff.
I asked my therapist and psychiatrist about this. So far, they are not familiar with it and my psychiatrist doesn’t read Russian so she cannot look up the Russian study reports to see what she thinks about using Rhodiola. IMO, elevated uses of vitamins and minerals is different than adding herbs to the pharmaceutical cocktail I take. And, I do not go beyond 2x of the MDR for them either, unlike our dear, departed Linus Pauling. YMMV Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
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