Question:
"Z55" <Zzon…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tUGvc.14807$Fo4.202396@typhoon.sonic.net… > Hi Katherine, > I think, to put it in a nutshell, that trust is necessary to an extent, > however it’s particularly relative as well.
Hi Z, you nearly made me snort Coke out my nose with this – leave it to someone who can actually get to the point without doing a dance around it first to boil my five pages down to a single sentence. ;-) Katherine
Response:
This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you can’t trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no one or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered by abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard to do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it effects their daily lives? td
Response:
"tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:5h2vc.92$6h3.91@bignews6.bellsouth.net… > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you can’t > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no one > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered by > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard to > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > effects their daily lives? > td
Or you end up like me. Feeling as though I’m wearing the armour of a tank, trusting nobody…not even my family and friends. So aloft and resigned to be a fringe dweller. pugi
Response:
Hi td! I don’t trust anyone until I’ve known them about 20 years, and even then there’s many I’ve known that long who I wouldn’t trust for a split second because I DO know them! : ) However, I do treat others with respect as I would like to be treated, until they give me a reason not to. With some people they show their colours right quickly and I immediately strike them from the "OK" list, others can go for quite awhile – years even and stay on the list as acquaintences. I only truly trust my wife, and even she’s hurt me at times (unintentionally of course). I have a hard time around people period. Even if I know them I’m very uncomfortable and never feel like I fit in. How can you when even the most innocent of conversations can trigger horrible memories. Then, out comes something about one and the person I’m talking with is suddenly made uncomfortable being around me because I’m still working on keeping my mouth shut about rapes, head on car wrecks, drug dealers, fights, abusive parents, lovers, strangers…. Trust? Will that ever be even a goal at some point? Why? Z55 "tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:5h2vc.92$6h3.91@bignews6.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you can’t > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no one > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered by > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard to > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > effects their daily lives? > td
Response:
Trust? Will that ever be even a goal at some point? Why? I hear ya Z. For me, it’s so I can let my guard down occasionally. Rest sometimes. Not have to be on-guard all the time. I’ve met some people in here that I trust though. And I think my instincts being what they are, a number of ‘em, present company included, I could trust in real life too. :) And I’ve met some other people online, in a couple private forums I’m on having nothing what so ever to do with PTSD, that I know I could trust in real life. In fact I have a number of online friends I’ve exchanged phone numbers and addresses with. They’ve been there for me many times. Know about my PTSD and have made it a concern to try and learn what they can about it too, to be supportive to me when necessary. Not that I talk about my ’stuff’ there, they simply are aware of things like my relationship with the parents, or if I ‘bitch’ about ‘em occasionally, etc. I’ve found once I was able to achieve a bit of trust in ‘certain people’, people who’ve proved themselves to be trustworthy, my life became easier. Although if someone crosses me, betrays that trust, that’s usually a deal-breaker forever. I might eventually warm up to them again, over time, but I’d never ever trust ‘em again. td "Z55" <Zzon…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Irnvc.14644$Fo4.199700@typhoon.sonic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi td! > I don’t trust anyone until I’ve known them about 20 years, and even then > there’s many I’ve known that long who I wouldn’t trust for a split second > because I DO know them! : ) > However, I do treat others with respect as I would like to be treated, until > they give me a reason not to. With some people they show their colours > right quickly and I immediately strike them from the "OK" list, others can > go for quite awhile – years even and stay on the list as acquaintences. > I only truly trust my wife, and even she’s hurt me at times (unintentionally > of course). > I have a hard time around people period. Even if I know them I’m very > uncomfortable and never feel like I fit in. How can you when even the most > innocent of conversations can trigger horrible memories. Then, out comes > something about one and the person I’m talking with is suddenly made > uncomfortable being around me because I’m still working on keeping my mouth > shut about rapes, head on car wrecks, drug dealers, fights, abusive parents, > lovers, strangers…. > Trust? Will that ever be even a goal at some point? Why? > Z55 > "tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:5h2vc.92$6h3.91@bignews6.bellsouth.net… > > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you > can’t > > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no > one > > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered > by > > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard > to > > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > > effects their daily lives? > > td
Response:
Hopefully you’ll work on this before it takes over. I’ve become completely isolated without realizing it was a matter of protecting myself from further damage, now I am damaged in other ways because of this. I know my fears aren’t rational, but I don’t know how to overcome them. :-( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -tinydancer wrote: > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you can’t > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no one > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered by > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard to > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > effects their daily lives? > td
Response:
Hi Katherine, Dang, Coke spewn from one’s nostrils sounds kinda……. ummmmm, hmmmmm, fizzy-painful! Aaayyyyyyyee! Interesting, I’m generally convoluted in my thinking and have no idea I’m taking someone down a twisting path to my point……. if I can focus long enough to recall what it was! Z55 "Katherine Wolfe" <wolfm…@aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:c9o5ib02jlh@enews3.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Z55" <Zzon…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:tUGvc.14807$Fo4.202396@typhoon.sonic.net… > > Hi Katherine, > > I think, to put it in a nutshell, that trust is necessary to an extent, > > however it’s particularly relative as well. > Hi Z, you nearly made me snort Coke out my nose with this – leave it to > someone who can actually get to the point without doing a dance around it > first to boil my five pages down to a single sentence. ;-) > Katherine
Response:
Hi td! I let my guard down at home pretty much, well, when there aren’t the sounds of helicopters, sirens, drunk neighbours or loud bang/pop noises :/ I feel comfortable with my dogs. I’ve met a person I "met" online, turned out to be a psycho head case, so I’m advising you to please be careful td. This person came across just as sweet and helpful a person as you’d like to meet. Had things in common. When I made a trip to visit relatives I met up with the person. Got a few weird vibes, then the person got downright mean when not given their way. When jealousy entered the picture (over another person I met from the online group also) I was the recipient of a couple of vicious e-mail attacks. Dropped that "friendship" like a hot potato. I’ve simply been burned too many times. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy a lot of people, both in reality as well as online. I’m very grateful for people I can be supportive of and be supported by in a positive manner. Life would be dreadful without being able to relate to others completely. I’m so thankful that there are people like you and others here who are "safe" to be with. So, in a sense I do let my guard down, but like I said to Katherine, it’s all relative I guess eh? Z55 "tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:EQnvc.1392$F2.798@bignews6.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Trust? Will that ever be even a goal at some point? Why? > I hear ya Z. For me, it’s so I can let my guard down occasionally. Rest > sometimes. Not have to be on-guard all the time. I’ve met some people in > here that I trust though. And I think my instincts being what they are, a > number of ‘em, present company included, I could trust in real life too. 
> And I’ve met some other people online, in a couple private forums I’m on > having nothing what so ever to do with PTSD, that I know I could trust in > real life. In fact I have a number of online friends I’ve exchanged phone > numbers and addresses with. They’ve been there for me many times. Know > about my PTSD and have made it a concern to try and learn what they can > about it too, to be supportive to me when necessary. Not that I talk about > my ’stuff’ there, they simply are aware of things like my relationship with > the parents, or if I ‘bitch’ about ‘em occasionally, etc. I’ve found once I > was able to achieve a bit of trust in ‘certain people’, people who’ve proved > themselves to be trustworthy, my life became easier. Although if someone > crosses me, betrays that trust, that’s usually a deal-breaker forever. I > might eventually warm up to them again, over time, but I’d never ever trust > ‘em again. > td > "Z55" <Zzon…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:Irnvc.14644$Fo4.199700@typhoon.sonic.net… > > Hi td! > > I don’t trust anyone until I’ve known them about 20 years, and even then > > there’s many I’ve known that long who I wouldn’t trust for a split second > > because I DO know them! : ) > > However, I do treat others with respect as I would like to be treated, > until > > they give me a reason not to. With some people they show their colours > > right quickly and I immediately strike them from the "OK" list, others can > > go for quite awhile – years even and stay on the list as acquaintences. > > I only truly trust my wife, and even she’s hurt me at times > (unintentionally > > of course). > > I have a hard time around people period. Even if I know them I’m very > > uncomfortable and never feel like I fit in. How can you when even the > most > > innocent of conversations can trigger horrible memories. Then, out comes > > something about one and the person I’m talking with is suddenly made > > uncomfortable being around me because I’m still working on keeping my > mouth > > shut about rapes, head on car wrecks, drug dealers, fights, abusive > parents, > > lovers, strangers…. > > Trust? Will that ever be even a goal at some point? Why? > > Z55 > > "tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > news:5h2vc.92$6h3.91@bignews6.bellsouth.net… > > > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool > me > > > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > > > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you > > can’t > > > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no > > one > > > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered > > by > > > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard > > to > > > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > > > effects their daily lives? > > > td
Response:
Hi Katherine, I think, to put it in a nutshell, that trust is necessary to an extent, however it’s particularly relative as well. Z55 "Katherine Wolfe" <wolfm…@aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:c9m2j602r1f@enews3.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:5h2vc.92$6h3.91@bignews6.bellsouth.net… > > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you > can’t > > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no > one > > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered > by > > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard > to > > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > > effects their daily lives? > Yeah, trust is a big deal. It seems like it’s an "either-or" thing – either > I trust you, or I don’t trust you. When I used to look at it that way, I > oscillated between not trusting anybody, and wanting to be able to trust > *everybody*! Neither position is exactly functional. > Life in any community is based on little exchanges of trust every day. I > trust that you won’t run the red light, you trust that I won’t jump the curb > and chase you down the sidewalk. Without being able to trust anonymous > strangers at least a little, life becomes pretty paranoid. Yes, I speak > from personal experience. 
> But, the other pole is just as bad. Seriously – you can’t trust everybody. > There are people out there who like to hurt people, because they can, and > you really don’t want to look like potential prey. Another way to say > "trust everybody" is "be gullible" – and those of us who have already been > smashed to smithereens by mean people really can’t afford to be gullible. > Fortunately though, trust isn’t binary – it isn’t a question of trust > someone all the way, or not at all. It’s possible to trust someone for some > things, but not for others. It’s possible to trust the driver coming toward > you on a two lane highway to stay in their lane out of self-interest, > without having to trust him with your credit cards. So the question is > usually, not whether to trust someone at all, but how far to trust them? > I think you can answer this question based on how well you know someone, how > long you’ve known them, what their history with you has been, and whether > they’ve been trustworthy in the past – and for what things have they been > trustworthy. You can start out with a person at a low default level of > trust, and trust them more or less over time, with more or less vulnerable > parts of your life, based on their behavior. I think this is what’s meant > by "earning trust" – if you act trustworthy, you’ll be trusted. Don’t, and > you won’t be. > I’ve found, since I’ve really absorbed this strategy, that I can have > friends that I really wouldn’t call for emotional support in a crisis, and > that I can do business with people that I wouldn’t ever think of as friends. > I can trust them in the context that they are trustworthy, and if they don’t > ever migrate into that inner circle, that’s okay. I can have relationships > that are constrained by my comfort level, and that lets me be social without > constantly hitting the panic button. > Katherine
Response:
tinydancer wrote: > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you can’t > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no one > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered by > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard to > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > effects their daily lives? > td
I have trouble learning to trust it takes months to trust anyone maybe more and it’s fragile. I guess I have the attitude of I’ll believe it when I see it. Once I learn to trust then I’d throw away my life to save that other person’s life. Why can’t people give me a break? Look I’ll save you ass but don’t piss me off. If you do I’ll be the worst fucking nightmare you ever had ok. I mean I bust my ass trying to help people and all I get is a bunch of trouble in return but never mind I’m used to that shit but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. That isn’t in the orders. I think people lie whenever it suits their purposes to do so not because they feel pressured. I come through knowing no good deed goes unpunished but it pisses me off.
Response:
Hi Katz! > I have trouble learning to trust it takes months to trust anyone maybe > more and it’s fragile. I guess I have the attitude of I’ll believe it > when I see it. Once I learn to trust then I’d throw away my life to > save that other person’s life. Why can’t people give me a break? > Look I’ll save you ass but don’t piss me off. If you do I’ll be the > worst fucking nightmare you ever had ok. > I mean I bust my ass trying to help people and all I get is a bunch of > trouble in return but never mind I’m used to that shit but it doesn’t > mean I have to like it. That isn’t in the orders. I think people lie > whenever it suits their purposes to do so not because they feel > pressured. I come through knowing no good deed goes unpunished but it > pisses me off.
Learning that trust is a _situational event_ was very, very difficult for me. Learning that trust is often used as a weapon for control (by me and as well as others) finally broke through my thought process. I tended to think in ‘all or nothing’ with respect to trust. I tended to think that either I could trust a person or not trust a person; it turned out that a little bit of both is true. YMMV Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Hi Nancy! *snip* > Learning that trust is often used as a weapon for control (by me and as > well as others) finally broke through my thought process.
Trust as a weapon……. I never thought of it like that in words, more in emotions, but you’re 100% right on target with that one. *snip* > I tended to think in ‘all or nothing’ with respect to trust. I tended to > think that either I could trust a person or not trust a person; it turned > out that a little bit of both is true.
Indeed, quite true! : ) Z55
Response:
"Robert Diedrich" <RobtDdr…@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7875-40CE3ED2-81@storefull-3177.bay.webtv.net… > Yes, I lost the ability to trust by the time I was 9 years old and swore > I would never trust anyone again (that I would never let anyone hurt me > again). My biggest challenge in life is to learn to risk trusting and to > learn not to blame myself if it doesn’t work out (not to catastrophise > it). I’m beginning to trust again and it feels good. > Robert
Yeah. I think I was the same, perhaps that’s the reason I became self reliant. I was never a team player. p
Response:
"tinydancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:5h2vc.92$6h3.91@bignews6.bellsouth.net… > This has been an issue lately for some here. What is that saying "Fool me > once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"? Is that how it goes? > Trust seems to be a big issue for a lot of PTSD people. You learn you can’t > trust people/situations in many cases, and for a long time you trust no one > or nothing. Gaining the trust of someone who’s had their core shattered by > abusive people or situations out of their control is sometimes very hard to > do. Just wondered what others here have to say about trust and how it > effects their daily lives?
Yeah, trust is a big deal. It seems like it’s an "either-or" thing – either I trust you, or I don’t trust you. When I used to look at it that way, I oscillated between not trusting anybody, and wanting to be able to trust *everybody*! Neither position is exactly functional. Life in any community is based on little exchanges of trust every day. I trust that you won’t run the red light, you trust that I won’t jump the curb and chase you down the sidewalk. Without being able to trust anonymous strangers at least a little, life becomes pretty paranoid. Yes, I speak from personal experience. But, the other pole is just as bad. Seriously – you can’t trust everybody. There are people out there who like to hurt people, because they can, and you really don’t want to look like potential prey. Another way to say "trust everybody" is "be gullible" – and those of us who have already been smashed to smithereens by mean people really can’t afford to be gullible. Fortunately though, trust isn’t binary – it isn’t a question of trust someone all the way, or not at all. It’s possible to trust someone for some things, but not for others. It’s possible to trust the driver coming toward you on a two lane highway to stay in their lane out of self-interest, without having to trust him with your credit cards. So the question is usually, not whether to trust someone at all, but how far to trust them? I think you can answer this question based on how well you know someone, how long you’ve known them, what their history with you has been, and whether they’ve been trustworthy in the past – and for what things have they been trustworthy. You can start out with a person at a low default level of trust, and trust them more or less over time, with more or less vulnerable parts of your life, based on their behavior. I think this is what’s meant by "earning trust" – if you act trustworthy, you’ll be trusted. Don’t, and you won’t be. I’ve found, since I’ve really absorbed this strategy, that I can have friends that I really wouldn’t call for emotional support in a crisis, and that I can do business with people that I wouldn’t ever think of as friends. I can trust them in the context that they are trustworthy, and if they don’t ever migrate into that inner circle, that’s okay. I can have relationships that are constrained by my comfort level, and that lets me be social without constantly hitting the panic button. Katherine
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