Question:
Breggin has ties to the Scientologists, which explains his take on meds. Really? Where did you hear this?
A friend of mine is a super sleuth; she found out all kinds of info on this character. Apparently his wife or ex is/was a scientologist and he continues to have ties to this organization. Terry
Response:
Breggin has ties to the Scientologists, which explains his take on meds.
Really? Where did you hear this? I wouldn’t be surprised, but I’ve never heard this before. -elizabeth (who had waaaaaaay too much fun exposing our friend peter for the idiot he really is!)
Response:
Gary, Breggin has ties to the Scientologists, which explains his take on meds. He has the ADD community in an uproar too, because of his connections with the media, who historically have slammed ADD and Ritalin usage. Sigh. Terry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many epileptics can stop taking anti-convulsants, or diabetics insulin? Why should people stop taking medication if it is a biochemical problem? Additionally, not all anti-depressants work on serotonin Most do, although the one I am taking works only on dopamine (at least, at the dose I am taking). (It’s selegiline, which is not usually used as an antidepressant.) Wellbutrin may be the exception, but they don’t have a clear idea of what Wellbutrin does. (There are also tricyclics like desipramine that work more on norepinephrine than on serotonin.) Low levels of dopamine can cause depression, which causes many people to self medicate (abuse drugs). Maybe if more people had adequate mental health care we wouldn’t have so many addicts. Have there been studies on the role of dopamine in depression?
In the March-April 1996 issue of _American Scientist_, Blum (of the D2 allele polymorphism theory of alcoholism) et al. postulate a syndrome they call "reward deficiency syndrome" related to dopamine deficiency. Not "depression" _per se_, but a close facsimile thereof. Some illegal/recreational drugs (speed and coke) affect dopamine, but many (heroin, alcohol) don’t.
Yeah they do. Opioids inhibit GABA-mediated inhibition of dopamine in the VTA/nucleus accumbens (one or the other), thereby increasing DAergic activity. EtOH is believed to do the same through indirect activation of opioidergic pathways. (Yeah, this is oversimplified — other neurotransmitters are probably involved, notably 5-HT). (Not sure if anyone knows how marijuana works.) I know a psychopharmacologist at McLean who is an expert in the use of opiates (mainly buprenorphine) for depression, actually; that receptor may have something to do with it too.
Scott Lukas? I took his course (Harvard Extension…) last semester. see (if you haven’t already) my totally unauthorized reprint of his (et. al) article on the McLean bupe trial at http://www.tiac.net/users/smisch/bupe.html (from _J. Clin. Psychopharmacology_). Also, there’s a whole issue of _Ann NY Acad Sci_ 1982 v.398 devoted to the use of opioids for psychiatric conditions and possible roles of endogenous opioid dysfunction in various mental disorders. Fascinating stuff. (AFAIK, the only local [Boston] library that carries it is Countway [Harvard Med.]. Technically, you need a pass to get in, but you can go to the front desk and say you’re an Extension student but forgot your registration. They’ll give you a day pass.)
Response:
Memorizing how to spell Breggin changes the structure of the brain.
Bravo! People have this assumption that somehow there are "psychological" and "biological" factors in mental illness and that these are separate. But people with supposedly "environmental" disorders like PTSD and reactive depression are helped by medication. This says to me that the brain and the "mind" are intertwined and inseparable. I read a book recently called _The Chemistry of Conscious States_ by J. Allan Hobson (a neuropsychiatrist – who, by the way, is board-certified, unlike Breggin!). It’s more about sleep than about mental disorders or pharmacology, but Hobson has some very interesting ideas which are good food for thought for anyone who is interested in the "brain-mind," as he calls it! 
How many epileptics can stop taking anti-convulsants, or diabetics insulin? Why should people stop taking medication if it is a biochemical problem? Additionally, not all anti-depressants work on serotonin
Most do, although the one I am taking works only on dopamine (at least, at the dose I am taking). (It’s selegiline, which is not usually used as an antidepressant.) Wellbutrin may be the exception, but they don’t have a clear idea of what Wellbutrin does. (There are also tricyclics like desipramine that work more on norepinephrine than on serotonin.) Low levels of dopamine can cause depression, which causes many people to self medicate (abuse drugs). Maybe if more people had adequate mental health care we wouldn’t have so many addicts.
Have there been studies on the role of dopamine in depression? Some illegal/recreational drugs (speed and coke) affect dopamine, but many (heroin, alcohol) don’t. (Not sure if anyone knows how marijuana works.) I know a psychopharmacologist at McLean who is an expert in the use of opiates (mainly buprenorphine) for depression, actually; that receptor may have something to do with it too. -elizabeth
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes He does have a point which bothers me. He says that we may be altering the chemistry of the brain through the use of ADs in a *profound* way. I wonder if it is a permanent alteration. Memorizing how to spell Breggin changes the structure of the brain. I’m a little more worried about how not being on medication affects my whole being. How many people out there can’t seem to quit these meds? I have trouble accepting the fact that so many of us have a serotonin deficiency in the brain. I wonder whether these drugs *create* a serotonin deficiency by their use. How many epileptics can stop taking anti-convulsants, or diabetics insulin? Why should people stop taking medication if it is a biochemical problem? Additionally, not all anti-depressants work on serotonin
I guess I have a problem accepting that most depressed people are really as sick (or whatever you want to call it) as epileptics or diabetics. (Incidentally, diabetes is not so cut-and-dry either, in terms of theories about what causes it, and why the prevalence of diabetes is rising, whether insulin helps more than it hurts, etc.) The point is, we classify something as a "disease" very readily, perhaps too readily, which I think is a point that Breggin makes. I am just trying to see different sides of the issue. I don’t think he’s an idiot, but I’m not going to give up my meds either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We do know that in drug addicts, the chemistry of the brain is altered after their first exposure to the addictive substance. The dopamine theory of addiction says that addicts are attempting to bring up the dopamine levels in their brain, which have been altered after that initial exposure. Low levels of dopamine can cause depression, which causes many people to self medicate (abuse drugs). Maybe if more people had adequate mental health care we wouldn’t have so many addicts. — One person in four is mentally ill. If you can count three of your friends that are sane, then its you.
Response:
He does have a point which bothers me. He says that we may be altering the chemistry of the brain through the use of ADs in a *profound* way. I wonder if it is a permanent alteration. How many people out there can’t seem to quit these meds? I have trouble accepting the fact that so many of us have a serotonin deficiency in the brain. I wonder whether these drugs *create* a serotonin deficiency by their use. We do know that in drug addicts, the chemistry of the brain is altered after their first exposure to the addictive substance. The dopamine theory of addiction says that addicts are attempting to bring up the dopamine levels in their brain, which have been altered after that initial exposure.
Response:
: Breggin is a sham. Thats not because some of this criticsms arn’t right but : that his entire agenda is based on a fundamentalist antipsychiatry. : Basically it can be summed up as : : 1. No psychiatric drugs ever work. All research is flawed : 2. When they do appear to work its because they do brain damage. : I am very curious to find out more about this so-called "brain damage" that Xanax reputedly causes. Apparently it does cause memory problems and intereference with learning, but as far as i know, it’s all reversible. emma
Response:
Breggin is a sham. Thats not because some of this criticsms arn’t right but that his entire agenda is based on a fundamentalist antipsychiatry. Basically it can be summed up as 1. No psychiatric drugs ever work. All research is flawed 2. When they do appear to work its because they do brain damage. Funny, it reminds me of the views of a certain $$ cult $$. Blue Monday – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had the unique experience of hearing Peter Breggin speak last night. His entire theory (I use the word loosely) appears to be based on the naive (IMNSHO) belief that "mind" and "brain" are separate entities and that there exists some sort of nonbiological "soul." Oh yeah, and all trials of psychotropic drugs were faked. (His explanation of why they were "faked" seemed to apply equally to nonpsychotropics; he couldn’t really give a good answer when I asked him about that.) -elizabeth
Response:
The way I look and deal with Peter Breggins whom I have read all the material he has ever written is I take two XANAX’s and call me in the morning. LOL lori – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Breggin is a sham. Thats not because some of this criticsms arn’t right but that his entire agenda is based on a fundamentalist antipsychiatry. Basically it can be summed up as 1. No psychiatric drugs ever work. All research is flawed 2. When they do appear to work its because they do brain damage. Funny, it reminds me of the views of a certain $$ cult $$. Blue Monday
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had the unique experience of hearing Peter Breggin speak last night. His entire theory (I use the word loosely) appears to be based on the naive (IMNSHO) belief that "mind" and "brain" are separate entities and that there exists some sort of nonbiological "soul." Oh yeah, and all trials of psychotropic drugs were faked. (His explanation of why they were "faked" seemed to apply equally to nonpsychotropics; he couldn’t really give a good answer when I asked him about that.) -elizabeth
Response:
Actually Peter Breggin is a brilliant scientist. If you read his books, you might be surprised of how well reasearched they are I recommend starting with "Toxic Psychiatry" or "Talking Back To Prozac."
I started off with "Toxic Psychiatry". By the time I’d got half way through I’d spotted so many stupid errors in drug classification etc.. that it was clear his books were very poorly researched, and the "research" I’m talking about is consulting simple medical dictionaries to check facts. — Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205 www.dai.ed.ac.uk/daidb/people/staff/Christopher_Malcolm.html
Response:
I had the unique experience of hearing Peter Breggin speak last night. His entire theory (I use the word loosely) appears to be based on the naive (IMNSHO) belief that "mind" and "brain" are separate entities and that there exists some sort of nonbiological "soul." Oh yeah, and all trials of psychotropic drugs were faked. (His explanation of why they were "faked" seemed to apply equally to nonpsychotropics; he couldn’t really give a good answer when I asked him about that.)
It sort of makes you wonder how some people get medical degrees, doesn’t it? Thanks for the information, Elizabeth. — Gary Cooper
Response:
I think Breggin may be well intentioned, but I think the extreme positions he advocates in books such as Talking Back to Prozac ignore the fact that sometimes medication is the only way to get suffering enough under control that one can even begin to deal with it. Also, all of us don’t have the luxury of devoting our entire lives to self-analysis or the resources to spend hours a week chatting with a shrink. As usual, most people who stake out extreme positions have something to say that is worth considering, but ultimately are too biased to be right.
Response:
: I had the unique experience of hearing Peter Breggin speak last night. : His entire theory (I use the word loosely) appears to be based on the : naive (IMNSHO)belief that "mind" and "brain" are separate entities and : that there exists some sort of nonbiological "soul." Oh yeah, and all : trials of psychotropic drugs were faked. (His explanation of why they : were "faked" seemed to apply equally to nonpsychotropics; he couldn’t : really give a good answer when I asked him about that.) : It sort of makes you wonder how some people get medical : degrees, doesn’t it? Thanks for the information, Elizabeth. : — : Gary Cooper Actually Peter Breggin is a brilliant scientist. Years before people recognized that Tardive Dyskinsia was a side effect of the major tranquilizers like Melleril, Haldol and Prolixin. Everyone laughed at him and thought he was crazy. After about 10 years later, people had to admit he was right. Before that people blamed the TD on Schizophenia. If you read his books, you might be surprised of how well reasearched they are and he heads an organization of hundreds of MD’s and Ph. D.’s dedicated to keeping therapy in psychology/psychiatry. I recommend starting with "Toxic Psychiatry" or "Talking Back To Prozac." Jacob Parnas
Response:
I had the unique experience of hearing Peter Breggin speak last night. His entire theory (I use the word loosely) appears to be based on the naive (IMNSHO) belief that "mind" and "brain" are separate entities and that there exists some sort of nonbiological "soul." Oh yeah, and all trials of psychotropic drugs were faked. (His explanation of why they were "faked" seemed to apply equally to nonpsychotropics; he couldn’t really give a good answer when I asked him about that.) -elizabeth
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