Trauma – PTSD

Question:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 22:14:43 -0400, An cac tao ne` <mywo…@usa.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >wrote: >>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>wrote: >>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>wrote: >>>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>>death of a fellow vet? >>>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >>I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >>the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >>Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >Take you long to become a stupid fucking ass hole? >or do you just work at it hard?

An cac tao ne it seems as if all of your posts center on one bodily orifice.  Why not get your head out of there and respond with something that might be thought provoking.  Maybe you think Cheney was doing the right thing during the Vietnam War.  I understand he did have other priorities. Maybe you think Bush got into flight training in the TANG on merit. I’m not a big fan of Kerry’s but he served in Vietnam.  He might have been a jerk, but he did serve our country in combat.   http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 22:22:01 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sat, 07 May 2005 22:14:43 -0400, An cac tao ne` <mywo…@usa.com> >wrote: >>On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >>wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>wrote: >>>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>>>death of a fellow vet? >>>>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>>>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>>>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>>>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>>>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >>>I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >>>the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >>>Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >>>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >>Take you long to become a stupid fucking ass hole? >>or do you just work at it hard? >Have a look at this nice file, wouldn’t you like to live here? >Thought so.

 you must be dumb or is it dumber? since you’d like to be included- Fuck Off Ass hole kill file away you can’t even make REMF first you would have had to have been there which would make you a what ah   Wannabee! Kill Filed

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 23:34:33 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sat, 07 May 2005 22:14:43 -0400, An cac tao ne` <mywo…@usa.com> >wrote: >>On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >>wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>wrote: >>>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>>>death of a fellow vet? >>>>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>>>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>>>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>>>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>>>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >>>I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >>>the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >>>Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >>>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >>Take you long to become a stupid fucking ass hole? >>or do you just work at it hard? >An cac tao ne it seems as if all of your posts center on one bodily >orifice.  Why not get your head out of there and respond with >something that might be thought provoking.  Maybe you think Cheney was >doing the right thing during the Vietnam War.  I understand he did >have other priorities. Maybe you think Bush got into flight training >in the TANG on merit. I’m not a big fan of Kerry’s but he served in >Vietnam.  He might have been a jerk, but he did serve our country in >combat.   >http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html

  after you pull you head out of your ass or elvis’s ass try shaking the shit out of your ears, mouth and put you brain in gear try stimulating some brain cells – try getting them to rub together- it was your ass hole statement comparing Clinton to Bush care to rethink that one – the statement stands and is true if anyone is so inclined pull some of Tommy Boys prior posts – see which way he BLOWS

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:09:54 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >wrote: >>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>wrote: >>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>wrote: >>>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>>death of a fellow vet? >>>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >>I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >>the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >>Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >Ahmen brother, when they can use a combat soldiers record against him, >we are doomed.

Damn- another one – they opened the gates to the nut houses one thing for sure you and tom are ass hole brothers alright

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 22:14:43 -0400, An cac tao ne` <mywo…@usa.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >wrote: >>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>wrote: >>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>wrote: >>>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>>death of a fellow vet? >>>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >>I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >>the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >>Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >Take you long to become a stupid fucking ass hole? >or do you just work at it hard?

Have a look at this nice file, wouldn’t you like to live here? Thought so.

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>wrote: >>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>death of a fellow vet? >>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html

Ahmen brother, when they can use a combat soldiers record against him, we are doomed.

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>wrote: >>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>wrote: >>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>death of a fellow vet? >>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html

Take you long to become a stupid fucking ass hole? or do you just work at it hard?

Response:

In <dn3t719f5uvgpmv92389kc5rngt9tr5…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >the first time you mentioned Tiny Dancer I envisioned  a 400 lb >biker who was psychotic.

That’s not far from the truth… at least the four hundred pound psychotic part.

Response:

"Sharky" <sh…@hellsgates.org> wrote in message

news:6cqi819sbvm04ok2hjvlpmhj6s1c30n2gu@4ax.com… > In <dn3t719f5uvgpmv92389kc5rngt9tr5…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: > >the first time you mentioned Tiny Dancer I envisioned  a 400 lb > >biker who was psychotic. > That’s not far from the truth… at least the four hundred pound > psychotic part.

What ya got against us psychotic bikers Eris…? ‘51 Injun 80" Black Hawk !

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 17 May 2005 21:10:49 -0300, "Red Jacket" <R…@yahoo.com> wrote: >"Sharky" <sh…@hellsgates.org> wrote in message >news:6cqi819sbvm04ok2hjvlpmhj6s1c30n2gu@4ax.com… >> In <dn3t719f5uvgpmv92389kc5rngt9tr5…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >> >the first time you mentioned Tiny Dancer I envisioned  a 400 lb >> >biker who was psychotic. >> That’s not far from the truth… at least the four hundred pound >> psychotic part. >What ya got against us psychotic bikers Eris…? >’51 Injun 80" Black Hawk !

I guess if I really got to know you Hey I just got done working in Cincinnati, at the office was this six foot biker chick, what a knockout Question does she get passed around to all of the members of her club? Do I actually have to own a motorcycle to join her club?

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 23:42:14 -0400, An cac tao ne` <mywo…@usa.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sat, 07 May 2005 23:34:33 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >wrote: >>On Sat, 07 May 2005 22:14:43 -0400, An cac tao ne` <mywo…@usa.com> >>wrote: >>>On Sat, 07 May 2005 21:02:02 -0400, Tom Lacombe <tlaco…@shentel.net> >>>wrote: >>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >>>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>>>>>Lock Up. >>>>>>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>>>>>Sorry BigBob >>>>>>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>>>>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>>>>>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>>>>>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>>>>>death of a fellow vet? >>>>>>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >>>>>That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >>>>>wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >>>>>endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >>>>>slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine? >>>>I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in >>>>the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in >>>>Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. >>>>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >>>Take you long to become a stupid fucking ass hole? >>>or do you just work at it hard? >>An cac tao ne it seems as if all of your posts center on one bodily >>orifice.  Why not get your head out of there and respond with >>something that might be thought provoking.  Maybe you think Cheney was >>doing the right thing during the Vietnam War.  I understand he did >>have other priorities. Maybe you think Bush got into flight training >>in the TANG on merit. I’m not a big fan of Kerry’s but he served in >>Vietnam.  He might have been a jerk, but he did serve our country in >>combat.   >>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html >  after you pull you head out of your ass or elvis’s ass try shaking >the shit out of your ears, mouth and put you brain in gear try >stimulating some brain cells – try getting them to rub together- it >was your ass hole statement comparing Clinton to Bush >care to rethink that one – the statement stands and is true if anyone >is so inclined pull some of Tommy Boys prior posts – see which way he >BLOWS

 I see you came up for air again, and did actually mention something not related to feces. I compared Bush and Cheney to Clinton, because the three of them went to great lengths to keep from serving in Vietnam. Bush made it very clear, he did not want to end up a private in the infantry in Vietnam. http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, Sharky <sha…@privacy.not> wrote: >On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >wrote: >>On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>wrote: >>>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>>wrote: >>>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>>Lock Up. >>>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>>Sorry BigBob >>>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >>I have my moments and last night was one of them. >>Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >>death of a fellow vet? >>Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet? >That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I >wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did >endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a >slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine?

I would say electing Bush and Cheney two men who used every trick in the book, yes just like Clinton, to keep from having to serve in Vietnam is a bigger slap in the face. http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/tom.html

Response:

"An cac tao ne`" <mywo…@usa.com> wrote in message news:eakp715n33oi8h5vm39thd5rumghmtb82h@4ax.com… > On Sat, 07 May 2005 14:08:31 GMT, "Bo Raxo" > Another ass hole with logic problems, the fact that Kerry supported > and help the commie’s never entered your mind, nor the fact that he > caused many American Young men to die needlessly. Sod off

It wasn’t John Kerry who sent young Americans off to kill and die in a pointless war in Southeast Asia.  That was the work of Johnson and Nixon. Talk about logic problems – being against the war meant, duh, you wanted to STOP Americans (and Vietnamese and others) from being slaughtered. And you raise this to defend Bush – who is getting Americans and Iraqis needlessly killed today, based on a pack of lies even weaker than the infamous domino theory. You want to stop needless deaths?  Try supporting those who are against these imperial adventures. Bo Raxo

Response:

"Sharky" <sha…@hellsgates.cor> wrote in message

news:b37o715582i4dnd22jo6cutrjv9cn4u65f@4ax.com… > The Air National Guard has never accused George W. Bush of being AWOL, > and he certainly has never been tried or convicted of it. And like > every one of us,’W’ is fallible, but unlike most of us, he has the > character and courage to admit when he is wrong. A man of John Kerry’s > character would never admit he was wrong about anything – except > possibly that he thought he was wrong once but was right.  No, the > real scum-bags in the 2004 Presidential race were the > Hanoi-Heinz-Kerry freak show.

Dubyah is okay-dokay because he’s never been actually accused by the military or tried and convicted of anything. But John Kerry, who actually went to Vietnam, actually served in combat, actually came home with all of those medals, also never accused nor tried nor convicted of anything, why he’s a "scum-bag"? Well, with "standards" and "logic" like that, it’s no wonder you support Bush. Bo Raxo

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 13:04:32 GMT, "Bo Raxo" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<invasions_r…@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote: >"Sharky" <sha…@hellsgates.cor> wrote in message >news:b37o715582i4dnd22jo6cutrjv9cn4u65f@4ax.com… >> The Air National Guard has never accused George W. Bush of being AWOL, >> and he certainly has never been tried or convicted of it. And like >> every one of us,’W’ is fallible, but unlike most of us, he has the >> character and courage to admit when he is wrong. A man of John Kerry’s >> character would never admit he was wrong about anything – except >> possibly that he thought he was wrong once but was right.  No, the >> real scum-bags in the 2004 Presidential race were the >> Hanoi-Heinz-Kerry freak show. >Dubyah is okay-dokay because he’s never been actually accused by the >military or tried and convicted of anything. >But John Kerry, who actually went to Vietnam, actually served in combat, >actually came home with all of those medals, also never accused nor tried >nor convicted of anything, why he’s a "scum-bag"? >Well, with "standards" and "logic" like that, it’s no wonder you support >Bush. >Bo Raxo

Kerry is hiding something, While Bush signed a SF180 and had his entire military records released Kerry has not. Even though he has promised to do so. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

"Perry" <perrymar…@lcisp.com> wrote in message

news:cshp71h09vi0s5ma95bbncarddi460rpp8@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 07 May 2005 13:04:32 GMT, "Bo Raxo" > <invasions_r…@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote: > >"Sharky" <sha…@hellsgates.cor> wrote in message > >news:b37o715582i4dnd22jo6cutrjv9cn4u65f@4ax.com… > >> The Air National Guard has never accused George W. Bush of being AWOL, > >> and he certainly has never been tried or convicted of it. And like > >> every one of us,’W’ is fallible, but unlike most of us, he has the > >> character and courage to admit when he is wrong. A man of John Kerry’s > >> character would never admit he was wrong about anything – except > >> possibly that he thought he was wrong once but was right.  No, the > >> real scum-bags in the 2004 Presidential race were the > >> Hanoi-Heinz-Kerry freak show. > >Dubyah is okay-dokay because he’s never been actually accused by the > >military or tried and convicted of anything. > >But John Kerry, who actually went to Vietnam, actually served in combat, > >actually came home with all of those medals, also never accused nor tried > >nor convicted of anything, why he’s a "scum-bag"? > >Well, with "standards" and "logic" like that, it’s no wonder you support > >Bush. > >Bo Raxo > Kerry is hiding something, While Bush signed a SF180 and had his > entire military records released Kerry has not. Even though he has > promised to do so.

Yes, it’s not like Bush could have possibly sanitized those records.  It’s not like his father was the President or the head of the CIA or something…. Sheesh!

Response:

On Sat, 07 May 2005 14:08:31 GMT, "Bo Raxo" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<invasions_r…@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote: >"Perry" <perrymar…@lcisp.com> wrote in message >news:cshp71h09vi0s5ma95bbncarddi460rpp8@4ax.com… >> On Sat, 07 May 2005 13:04:32 GMT, "Bo Raxo" >> <invasions_r…@thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote: >> >"Sharky" <sha…@hellsgates.cor> wrote in message >> >news:b37o715582i4dnd22jo6cutrjv9cn4u65f@4ax.com… >> >> The Air National Guard has never accused George W. Bush of being AWOL, >> >> and he certainly has never been tried or convicted of it. And like >> >> every one of us,’W’ is fallible, but unlike most of us, he has the >> >> character and courage to admit when he is wrong. A man of John Kerry’s >> >> character would never admit he was wrong about anything – except >> >> possibly that he thought he was wrong once but was right.  No, the >> >> real scum-bags in the 2004 Presidential race were the >> >> Hanoi-Heinz-Kerry freak show. >> >Dubyah is okay-dokay because he’s never been actually accused by the >> >military or tried and convicted of anything. >> >But John Kerry, who actually went to Vietnam, actually served in combat, >> >actually came home with all of those medals, also never accused nor tried >> >nor convicted of anything, why he’s a "scum-bag"? >> >Well, with "standards" and "logic" like that, it’s no wonder you support >> >Bush. >> >Bo Raxo >> Kerry is hiding something, While Bush signed a SF180 and had his >> entire military records released Kerry has not. Even though he has >> promised to do so. >Yes, it’s not like Bush could have possibly sanitized those records.  It’s >not like his father was the President or the head of the CIA or >something…. >Sheesh!

Another ass hole with logic problems, the fact that Kerry supported and help the commie’s never entered your mind, nor the fact that he caused many American Young men to die needlessly. Sod off

Response:

On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:46 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >wrote: >>In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>>wrote: >>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>>wrote: >>>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>>Lock Up. >>>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>>Sorry BigBob >>Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >>down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes. >I have my moments and last night was one of them. >Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the >death of a fellow vet? >Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet?

That particular news team is known for their shoddy journalism and I wouldn’t waste any effort worrying about what they say. I mean they did endorse that lying traitor John Kerry for President, how much more of a slap in the face of VietNam vets could you imagine?

Response:

On Fri, 06 May 2005 09:16:40 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:20 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >wrote: >>In <1jfl71di03b5em884esm1spsug6nt9r…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>wrote: >>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>No is it some one who posts here? >>Yeh, she’s posted here lots of times about PTSD. >>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>Lock Up. >>Maybe you two should hook up? >Sorry that Douglas Von Reiman left some of you people with no focus in >life, but I am not Douglas Von Reiman and will not be his replacement. >There are many people like Douglas in alt.fan.rush.limbaugh, that >would welcome you.

I was posting about tiny dancer not Doogie. She’s got PTSD too, and you remind me of her style of posting (fractured, disassociated, bordering on schizophrenic, etc…)

Response:

In <1jfl71di03b5em884esm1spsug6nt9r…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >wrote: >>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >No is it some one who posts here?

Yeh, she’s posted here lots of times about PTSD. >Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >Lock Up.

Maybe you two should hook up?

Response:

In <rrmdnUP92NAOS-ffRVn…@adelphia.com>, "RJ" <Red Jac…@yahhoy.com> wrote: >Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> wrote in message >news:qhdl71p0rr6jhl2qfsbp9kvqfetchamodi@4ax.com… >> In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >> >They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >> >a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >> Have you ever met tiny dancer? >” Smile and the world smiles back ! ”

That’d be Nancy… innit?  What ever happened to Roooody?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >wrote: >>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>wrote: >>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>No is it some one who posts here? >>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>Lock Up. >Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >Sorry BigBob

Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes.

Response:

On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:20 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In <1jfl71di03b5em884esm1spsug6nt9r…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>wrote: >>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>No is it some one who posts here? >Yeh, she’s posted here lots of times about PTSD. >>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>Lock Up. >Maybe you two should hook up?

Sorry that Douglas Von Reiman left some of you people with no focus in life, but I am not Douglas Von Reiman and will not be his replacement. There are many people like Douglas in alt.fan.rush.limbaugh, that would welcome you. Thanks

Response:

On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:23:21 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In <fjil71h7ngfc6ejttmh8ikpstuimit7…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:50:37 -0400, Eris <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> >>wrote: >>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:19 -0400, Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> >>>wrote: >>>>In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: >>>>>They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after >>>>>a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. >>>>Have you ever met tiny dancer? >>>No is it some one who posts here? >>>Tell big Bob that Channel Eight said horrible things about Fred, maybe >>>Big Bob and the "Boys" should stop over in Grand Rapids and teach them >>>a lesson before they come here. Grand Rapids has a much nicer County >>>Lock Up. >>Sorry change big bob to engineer. Damn PTSD >>Sorry BigBob >Now you’re just sounding like a fruitcake, Eirs. Maybe you should sit >down, take a deep breath and sing "Kumbia" for a few minutes.

I have my moments and last night was one of them. Why aren’t you outraged that a TV station is sensationalizing the death of a fellow vet? Or are you just and Uncle Joe vet?

Response:

Sharky <sh…@hellsgates.org> wrote in message

news:qhdl71p0rr6jhl2qfsbp9kvqfetchamodi@4ax.com… > In <jg7l7194ocql51vb10rvpfvfo4e3fr0…@4ax.com>, Eris wrote: > >They just warned everyone how dangerous everyone with PTSD are, after > >a PTSD Vietnam vet brandished a pistol at State Police. > Have you ever met tiny dancer?

” Smile and the world smiles back ! ”

Response:

Question:

::   I have a lot of problems with the police. They didn’t get anywhere ::investigating my mother-in-laws husband. They wouldn’t turn up ::when we were being terrorised by the drunks that spilled out of ::a huge party next door, and began smashing up the neighbourhood. ::I got made to strip down to my underwear on the side of the road ::one cold winters evening when I was on my way back from helping ::with the evening feed for some horses I knew, while the cop kept ::insulting me about horses being a girly thing, and accusing me of ::having gone into the paddocks to take drugs. ::   I don’t like the police at all. Oh my god, this is absolutely awful! This is a very traumatic event. Have you ever been evaluated for PTSD? {{{{{Phillip}}}}} ::   I’m not thrilled with psychiatry in general. I think it’s because ::I’m a programmer. I’m used to things having a clear cut definition. ::Computers either work or they don’t. All this stuff to do with brains ::is messy and doesn’t really have an answer. ::   The current doctor seems okay. It’s the one I left that I had real ::problems with. Quite apart from the fact that I figured out he was a ::lingerie fetishist. Well, we`re all entitled to a fetish or two Jackie ~*~I`m an angel! Honest The horns are just there to keep my halo up straight~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

police. They didn’t get anywhere ::investigating my mother-in-laws husband. They wouldn’t turn up ::when we were being terrorised by the drunks that spilled out of ::a huge party next door, and began smashing up the neighbourhood. ::I got made to strip down to my underwear on the side of the road ::one cold winters evening when I was on my way back from helping ::with the evening feed for some horses I knew, while the cop kept ::insulting me about horses being a girly thing, and accusing me of ::having gone into the paddocks to take drugs. ::   I don’t like the police at all Oh my god, this is absolutely awful! This is a very traumatic event. Have you ever been evaluated for PTSD? {{{{{Phillip}}}}}

   No. I didn’t feel all that traumatised by the time I got made to strip on the side of the road. It wasn’t that many years after I got out of high school, and I recognised the way he was trying to provoke me into attacking him so he would have an excuse. I had that a lot at high school, so I’d just learned to let it go. I wish I still could today. The wild party was only 5 years ago. I ended up hiding behind the bed with a broomstick in case they tried to break in. I’m very glad my kids were staying with my parents for the weekend. ::   The current doctor seems okay. It’s the one I left that I had real ::problems with. Quite apart from the fact that I figured out he was a ::lingerie fetishist. Well, we`re all entitled to a fetish or two

   Oh good! I’ll take several. I’m greedy. Are you right for each other? Find out with our Love Calculator:   http://fun.mobiledownloads.com.au/191191/index.wl?page=191191text — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

   Thank you to people who wrote. I saw the doctor. He’s put me on what I think of as ‘Mothers Little Helpers’ for two weeks. Diazepam three times a day. So far it seems to be working. Trying to explain what happened I lost it in his office, which I think scared him. I still get really mad if I think certain things, but I can at least not think those things. Before, I couldn’t control where my thoughts were going. I don`t think you are losing it at all. I think you have a lot of rage about what was done to your children. You also feel betrayed by the police, they are suppose to protect people, yet they let this monster go free.

   I have a lot of problems with the police. They didn’t get anywhere investigating my mother-in-laws husband. They wouldn’t turn up when we were being terrorised by the drunks that spilled out of a huge party next door, and began smashing up the neighbourhood. I got made to strip down to my underwear on the side of the road one cold winters evening when I was on my way back from helping with the evening feed for some horses I knew, while the cop kept insulting me about horses being a girly thing, and accusing me of having gone into the paddocks to take drugs.    I don’t like the police at all. You mentioned a pdoc appt tomorrow. You don`t seem too thrilled with this doctor, if that really is the case, you need to find a new one. I strongly urge you to find a therapist or psychologist for some therapy.

   I’m not thrilled with psychiatry in general. I think it’s because I’m a programmer. I’m used to things having a clear cut definition. Computers either work or they don’t. All this stuff to do with brains is messy and doesn’t really have an answer.    The current doctor seems okay. It’s the one I left that I had real problems with. Quite apart from the fact that I figured out he was a lingerie fetishist.    Time to go home. Google have changed the groups interface I read through from work. It takes me longer to read so I may not catch up here as quickly now. MSN Messenger v7. Download now:  http://messenger.ninemsn.com.au/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Philip, I am sorry you are having such a rough time.  We all go through periods where nothing makes sense in our lives,where we all want to rant and rave and life seems so bleak. I hope your appointment today went well.  Please let us know when you are up to it. Hang in there…you know life always gets better. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I think I am losing it. I don’t understand what’s going on in my own head any more. There has to be a lot more than just the anxiety, but I can’t seem to narrow any of it down.    At lunchtime, the police tried to charge me with jaywalking. The thing is, I wasn’t. I think they thought I was crossing the other way, because I’d seen them standing there, and they weren’t looking in my direction. So they were lecturing the hell out of me over something I hadn’t done, and while they were, someone ran out into the traffic, making cars slam on their brakes, just to get to the tram stop.    And I lost it. Completely. I was screaming and ranting at them over how completely useless they were, then before they got hold of me I ran off. And I couldn’t stop screaming and yelling. About the way they police let the pedophile who molested my children go. About the way they refused to turn up when a wild party next door got completely out of hand at 3am, with drunk people smashing down the neighbours fences. About how all my contact with the police so far has always ended up with the criminal walking away, and me getting into trouble for trying to report it in the first place. I kept running and yelling and ranting until I finallly ended up in a park, too tired to run any more, and with my throat so sore I haven’t been able to talk properly all afternoon.    I’m still bursting into tears every time I think about it.    I don’t understand what’s happening to me. I am seeing the pdoc tomorrow anyway. I don’t know if he can help me though. Last time I saw him a month and a half ago I seemed to be doing fine. I am scared of what he might do to me though. The last one I saw tried doping me out of my brain and then pressuring me to change things that I had spent years achieving a balance with. I have never gotten that balance back. Surfing the net a few days ago, I worked out exactly how he mis-diagnosed me. It wasn’t a problem, until he made it one. I am still frightened of what might be done to me. What other things might become problems. I don’t need any more problems.    Apart from this, my life is going fine. If my mind wasn’t disintigrating, I don’t think I would have any major problems right now. I feel guilty talking about things here. So many people here have things going wrong around them, and I am falling apart with nothing wrong at all. My family are all healthy. I have a job. Hell, my mother-in-law hasn’t even called us for months. There is no reason for all this.    Right now, I’m waiting around at work, because I can’t face getting onto a crowded train. I just have no one I can talk to right now, so I’m writing this. SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia’s #1 job site. http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Phillip…. Rob has said it so well here.  I’ve certainly *lost it* on occasion. I hope that you will talk with your pdoc about this incident tomorrow.. and that he will know of an helpful and appropriate way to help you with it. Take care!  And please keep venting! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – phillip – hey, don’t feel bad about posting. please vent if you need to, that’s what goes on here! I think that most of us with anxiety/panic have "freaked out" or exploded at one point. Hope you feel calmer at home.  Take some time to relax. I know that finding the right combo of meds and/or therapy can be a pain. Just make sure you speak up and that you feel comfortable with the doc[s] you work with. Sometimes finding the right professional can take a few tries too. You can work through it, and I’m sure it’ll get better. -take care, z [aka rob]    I think I am losing it. I don’t understand what’s going on in my own head any more. There has to be a lot more than just the anxiety, but I can’t seem to narrow any of it down.    At lunchtime, the police tried to charge me with jaywalking. The thing is, I wasn’t. I think they thought I was crossing the other way, because I’d seen them standing there, and they weren’t looking in my direction. So they were lecturing the hell out of me over something I hadn’t done, and while they were, someone ran out into the traffic, making cars slam on their brakes, just to get to the tram stop.    And I lost it. Completely. I was screaming and ranting at them over how completely useless they were, then before they got hold of me I ran off. And I couldn’t stop screaming and yelling. About the way they police let the pedophile who molested my children go. About the way they refused to turn up when a wild party next door got completely out of hand at 3am, with drunk people smashing down the neighbours fences. About how all my contact with the police so far has always ended up with the criminal walking away, and me getting into trouble for trying to report it in the first place. I kept running and yelling and ranting until I finallly ended up in a park, too tired to run any more, and with my throat so sore I haven’t been able to talk properly all afternoon.    I’m still bursting into tears every time I think about it. [clipped]

 . — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::   I think I am losing it. I don’t understand what’s going on in my own ::head any more. There has to be a lot more than just the anxiety, ::but I can’t seem to narrow any of it down. <Gently snipped Dear Phillip, I don`t think you are losing it at all. I think you have a lot of rage about what was done to your children. You also feel betrayed by the police, they are suppose to protect people, yet they let this monster go free. I think most parents would want to kill the person that molested their child…….I know I would. Your "feelings" are understandable and in my opinion, normal. However, your outburst is a warning sign that you need some help…… and soon. You mentioned a pdoc appt tomorrow. You don`t seem too thrilled with this doctor, if that really is the case, you need to find a new one. I strongly urge you to find a therapist or psychologist for some therapy. I also think it would help you to find a local support group, or even one online….. that offers support and advice to parents of children that were molested. Good luck with tomorrow appt. I hope your doctor can do something to help you. Please keep us updated. We care! Jackie ~*~I`m an angel! Honest The horns are just there to keep my halo up straight~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

phillip – hey, don’t feel bad about posting. please vent if you need to, that’s what goes on here! I think that most of us with anxiety/panic have "freaked out" or exploded at one point. Hope you feel calmer at home.  Take some time to relax. I know that finding the right combo of meds and/or therapy can be a pain. Just make sure you speak up and that you feel comfortable with the doc[s] you work with. Sometimes finding the right professional can take a few tries too. You can work through it, and I’m sure it’ll get better. -take care, z [aka rob]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I think I am losing it. I don’t understand what’s going on in my own head any more. There has to be a lot more than just the anxiety, but I can’t seem to narrow any of it down.    At lunchtime, the police tried to charge me with jaywalking. The thing is, I wasn’t. I think they thought I was crossing the other way, because I’d seen them standing there, and they weren’t looking in my direction. So they were lecturing the hell out of me over something I hadn’t done, and while they were, someone ran out into the traffic, making cars slam on their brakes, just to get to the tram stop.    And I lost it. Completely. I was screaming and ranting at them over how completely useless they were, then before they got hold of me I ran off. And I couldn’t stop screaming and yelling. About the way they police let the pedophile who molested my children go. About the way they refused to turn up when a wild party next door got completely out of hand at 3am, with drunk people smashing down the neighbours fences. About how all my contact with the police so far has always ended up with the criminal walking away, and me getting into trouble for trying to report it in the first place. I kept running and yelling and ranting until I finallly ended up in a park, too tired to run any more, and with my throat so sore I haven’t been able to talk properly all afternoon.    I’m still bursting into tears every time I think about it.

[clipped]    Right now, I’m waiting around at work, because I can’t face getting onto a crowded train. I just have no one I can talk to right now, so I’m writing this.

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

   I think I am losing it. I don’t understand what’s going on in my own head any more. There has to be a lot more than just the anxiety, but I can’t seem to narrow any of it down.    At lunchtime, the police tried to charge me with jaywalking. The thing is, I wasn’t. I think they thought I was crossing the other way, because I’d seen them standing there, and they weren’t looking in my direction. So they were lecturing the hell out of me over something I hadn’t done, and while they were, someone ran out into the traffic, making cars slam on their brakes, just to get to the tram stop.    And I lost it. Completely. I was screaming and ranting at them over how completely useless they were, then before they got hold of me I ran off. And I couldn’t stop screaming and yelling. About the way they police let the pedophile who molested my children go. About the way they refused to turn up when a wild party next door got completely out of hand at 3am, with drunk people smashing down the neighbours fences. About how all my contact with the police so far has always ended up with the criminal walking away, and me getting into trouble for trying to report it in the first place. I kept running and yelling and ranting until I finallly ended up in a park, too tired to run any more, and with my throat so sore I haven’t been able to talk properly all afternoon.    I’m still bursting into tears every time I think about it.    I don’t understand what’s happening to me. I am seeing the pdoc tomorrow anyway. I don’t know if he can help me though. Last time I saw him a month and a half ago I seemed to be doing fine. I am scared of what he might do to me though. The last one I saw tried doping me out of my brain and then pressuring me to change things that I had spent years achieving a balance with. I have never gotten that balance back. Surfing the net a few days ago, I worked out exactly how he mis-diagnosed me. It wasn’t a problem, until he made it one. I am still frightened of what might be done to me. What other things might become problems. I don’t need any more problems.    Apart from this, my life is going fine. If my mind wasn’t disintigrating, I don’t think I would have any major problems right now. I feel guilty talking about things here. So many people here have things going wrong around them, and I am falling apart with nothing wrong at all. My family are all healthy. I have a job. Hell, my mother-in-law hasn’t even called us for months. There is no reason for all this.    Right now, I’m waiting around at work, because I can’t face getting onto a crowded train. I just have no one I can talk to right now, so I’m writing this. SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia’s #1 job site.     http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I think I am losing it. I don’t understand what’s going on in my own head any more. There has to be a lot more than just the anxiety, but I can’t seem to narrow any of it down.   At lunchtime, the police tried to charge me with jaywalking. The thing is, I wasn’t. I think they thought I was crossing the other way, because I’d seen them standing there, and they weren’t looking in my direction. So they were lecturing the hell out of me over something I hadn’t done, and while they were, someone ran out into the traffic, making cars slam on their brakes, just to get to the tram stop.   And I lost it. Completely. I was screaming and ranting at them over how completely useless they were, then before they got hold of me I ran off. And I couldn’t stop screaming and yelling. About the way they police let the pedophile who molested my children go. About the way they refused to turn up when a wild party next door got completely out of hand at 3am, with drunk people smashing down the neighbours fences. About how all my contact with the police so far has always ended up with the criminal walking away, and me getting into trouble for trying to report it in the first place. I kept running and yelling and ranting until I finallly ended up in a park, too tired to run any more, and with my throat so sore I haven’t been able to talk properly all afternoon.   I’m still bursting into tears every time I think about it.   I don’t understand what’s happening to me. I am seeing the pdoc tomorrow anyway. I don’t know if he can help me though. Last time I saw him a month and a half ago I seemed to be doing fine. I am scared of what he might do to me though. The last one I saw tried doping me out of my brain and then pressuring me to change things that I had spent years achieving a balance with. I have never gotten that balance back. Surfing the net a few days ago, I worked out exactly how he mis-diagnosed me. It wasn’t a problem, until he made it one. I am still frightened of what might be done to me. What other things might become problems. I don’t need any more problems.   Apart from this, my life is going fine. If my mind wasn’t disintigrating, I don’t think I would have any major problems right now. I feel guilty talking about things here. So many people here have things going wrong around them, and I am falling apart with nothing wrong at all. My family are all healthy. I have a job. Hell, my mother-in-law hasn’t even called us for months. There is no reason for all this.   Right now, I’m waiting around at work, because I can’t face getting onto a crowded train. I just have no one I can talk to right now, so I’m writing this. SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia’s #1 job site.    http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail

Phillip, I am so sorry that you are having this problem.  Believe me, you should not feel guilty talking about it here just because of other people’s troubles.  I know from experience that when the trouble is in your own head, it is HUGE.  I have yet to come up against anything that compares in terms of difficulty (I feel like I’m taunting fate by even saying that). With your experiences with the police, I can understand your reaction. High anxiety can cause extreme irritability.  I find that for me, fear/hurt and anger are often two sides of the same coin – fear/hurt being the inward response and anger the outward response.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sworn to my husband that if "so and so" says or does one more rude, insensitive thing I’m going to just snap and tell them off.  Fortunately no one has ever pushed me that far, but I think I could do it if they did. I wish I could tell you something that would really help you.  I suspect your anxiety is driving your behavior, but find a good psychiatrist that you can trust to give you a proper diagnosis.  The right combination of meds and therapy can go a long way towards helping you. You will be in my thoughts. (((((((((Phillip)))))))))) Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

this kind of thing varies from person to person and your question would probably be best fielded by your physician.  people do take wellbutrin alone, but it is a little bit anxiety-generating for some people, which your dr. may not want you to experience; it’s really hard to say without knowing the whole deal G

Thanks.  My husband took it for a while and it really messed with him now that you mention it.

Response:

this kind of thing varies from person to person and your question would probably be best fielded by your physician.  people do take wellbutrin alone, but it is a little bit anxiety-generating for some people, which your dr. may not want you to experience; it’s really hard to say without knowing the whole deal G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wellbutrin increases dopamine Wouldn’t it be better just to take the Wellbutrin without the Lexapro? Why both? You should proably talk with your doc aobut that, especially if you are out of the Lexipro.  It can be very unpleasant to stop taking an SSRI without tappering. Joanna This is the second time I’ve run out without being able to get more. (Finals week at college and I’m too busy.)  It’s been a few days since I had a Lexapro and like the first time I ran out, I’m not experiencing anything unusual.  Not sure what to look for.  Actually, I do have one tablet left, but I was trying to stretch the last few out and this last one I’d like to take before my physiology exam.  I’m doing ok as I am, for now.  Maybe I can try not having anything since the stress of school will be gone after this week and I won’t have the need to focus as I have had to. About the Welbutrin/Lexapro combo… I don’t see how one can counteract the side effects of another.  If I have side effects, I have side effects. Unless the Welbutrin some how has an enhancing effect, how could it help with the sexual side effects?  Does anyone understand how adding Welbutrin to Lexapro is supposed to fix the sexual side effect?

Response:

I take 200mg of Zoloft and 100mg of Welbutrin.  The zoloft is for OCD and PTSD and anxiety.  The welbutrin is for ADD Joanna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wellbutrin increases dopamine Wouldn’t it be better just to take the Wellbutrin without the Lexapro? Why both? You should proably talk with your doc aobut that, especially if you are out of the Lexipro.  It can be very unpleasant to stop taking an SSRI without tappering. Joanna This is the second time I’ve run out without being able to get more. (Finals week at college and I’m too busy.)  It’s been a few days since I had a Lexapro and like the first time I ran out, I’m not experiencing anything unusual.  Not sure what to look for.  Actually, I do have one tablet left, but I was trying to stretch the last few out and this last one I’d like to take before my physiology exam.  I’m doing ok as I am, for now.  Maybe I can try not having anything since the stress of school will be gone after this week and I won’t have the need to focus as I have had to. About the Welbutrin/Lexapro combo… I don’t see how one can counteract the side effects of another.  If I have side effects, I have side effects. Unless the Welbutrin some how has an enhancing effect, how could it help with the sexual side effects?  Does anyone understand how adding Welbutrin to Lexapro is supposed to fix the sexual side effect?

Response:

Wellbutrin increases dopamine

Wouldn’t it be better just to take the Wellbutrin without the Lexapro?  Why both? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should proably talk with your doc aobut that, especially if you are out of the Lexipro.  It can be very unpleasant to stop taking an SSRI without tappering. Joanna This is the second time I’ve run out without being able to get more. (Finals week at college and I’m too busy.)  It’s been a few days since I had a Lexapro and like the first time I ran out, I’m not experiencing anything unusual.  Not sure what to look for.  Actually, I do have one tablet left, but I was trying to stretch the last few out and this last one I’d like to take before my physiology exam.  I’m doing ok as I am, for now.  Maybe I can try not having anything since the stress of school will be gone after this week and I won’t have the need to focus as I have had to. About the Welbutrin/Lexapro combo… I don’t see how one can counteract the side effects of another.  If I have side effects, I have side effects. Unless the Welbutrin some how has an enhancing effect, how could it help with the sexual side effects?  Does anyone understand how adding Welbutrin to Lexapro is supposed to fix the sexual side effect?

Response:

Wellbutrin increases dopamine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should proably talk with your doc aobut that, especially if you are out of the Lexipro.  It can be very unpleasant to stop taking an SSRI without tappering. Joanna This is the second time I’ve run out without being able to get more. (Finals week at college and I’m too busy.)  It’s been a few days since I had a Lexapro and like the first time I ran out, I’m not experiencing anything unusual.  Not sure what to look for.  Actually, I do have one tablet left, but I was trying to stretch the last few out and this last one I’d like to take before my physiology exam.  I’m doing ok as I am, for now.  Maybe I can try not having anything since the stress of school will be gone after this week and I won’t have the need to focus as I have had to. About the Welbutrin/Lexapro combo… I don’t see how one can counteract the side effects of another.  If I have side effects, I have side effects. Unless the Welbutrin some how has an enhancing effect, how could it help with the sexual side effects?  Does anyone understand how adding Welbutrin to Lexapro is supposed to fix the sexual side effect?

Response:

You should proably talk with your doc aobut that, especially if you are out of the Lexipro.  It can be very unpleasant to stop taking an SSRI without tappering. Joanna

This is the second time I’ve run out without being able to get more. (Finals week at college and I’m too busy.)  It’s been a few days since I had a Lexapro and like the first time I ran out, I’m not experiencing anything unusual.  Not sure what to look for.  Actually, I do have one tablet left, but I was trying to stretch the last few out and this last one I’d like to take before my physiology exam.  I’m doing ok as I am, for now.  Maybe I can try not having anything since the stress of school will be gone after this week and I won’t have the need to focus as I have had to. About the Welbutrin/Lexapro combo… I don’t see how one can counteract the side effects of another.  If I have side effects, I have side effects. Unless the Welbutrin some how has an enhancing effect, how could it help with the sexual side effects?  Does anyone understand how adding Welbutrin to Lexapro is supposed to fix the sexual side effect?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Best SSRI is Lexapro There is no such thing as a *best* SSRI. Although they all work by the same mechanism of action (poorly understood as that is) there are differences in our individual reactions. This very much an YMMV thing. What works for me doesn’t necessarily work for you too. Philip YMMV– Your Medicine, My Venom?

LOL, clever! *Your Mileage May Vary*, well-known internet abbr. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Under the heading of YMMV, my other course of action is to go up to 40mg of the Celexa. The only predictable part of this is that I know what MORE Celexa will get me – more of the same side effects. The Effexor is a new thing and has unknown upside and downside effects. Time to reach for the eight-ball and ask the question: should I switch to Effexor as my doctor suggests? Thanks for your help, everyone.

Response:

Berto: I have personally been on both Effexor and Celexa; I did find that Celexa was far better at anxiety reduction (for me), but because it is so specific for serotonin receptors, it is predictably likely to cause sexual problems. I’d like you and your doctor to discuss Cymbalta, the "other SNRI" besides Effexor.  I’ve been taking Cymbalta now for a number of months, and I think it’s an excellent anti-depressant, it still gives me that SSRI anxiety-reduction that I definitely want, and it’s MUCH damn better than Effexor ever thought about being.  That is obviously just anecdotal experience from one person (me) so it may or may not be the same for everyone.  My shrink says most people are giving Cymbalta a big thumbs up, and that he’s very happy with the results in almost all the cases.  Effexor is a little bit  uncomfortable to stop taking, so I have no doubt that the same is probably true for Cymbalta – but then from what I hear and read *all* SSRI medications have a "discontinuance syndrome" to one degree or another.  I have stopped them more than a few times cold turkey, and just had some dizziness for a few days.  Some people report more uncomfortable symptoms of discontinuance from SSRI meds.  It is NOT the same kind of thing as dependence on a benzodiazepine; abrupt stopping of a benzo like Xanax can cause life-threatening seizures, whereas abrupt discontinuance of SSRI meds causes uncomfortable symptoms and thoughts/moods – the severity of the syndrome seems to be related to how long the person was on it as well as how high the dose was prior to stopping the drug.   The manufacturers of both Cymbalta AND Effexor recommend in their published prescribing information that if these drugs are to be discontinued that they be tapered down. In my opinion, Cymbalta succeeds at doing what Effexor tried to do.  You will hear other opinions if you ask around. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Under the heading of YMMV, my other course of action is to go up to 40mg of the Celexa. The only predictable part of this is that I know what MORE Celexa will get me – more of the same side effects. The Effexor is a new thing and has unknown upside and downside effects. Time to reach for the eight-ball and ask the question: should I switch to Effexor as my doctor suggests? Thanks for your help, everyone.

Response:

You should proably talk with your doc aobut that, especially if you are out of the Lexipro.  It can be very unpleasant to stop taking an SSRI without tappering. Joanna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m out of Lexapro, but have some Welbutrin in the cupboard (because I didn’t want to take it when the dr. gave it to me to counteract sexual side effects of Lexapro)  Would it be safe to try out the Welbutrin? Hi Deb,  My 17yo son is taking Lexapro, and I take Welbutrin.  The Welbutrin is good for depression and ADD wuthout sexual side effects.  Lexapro is another SSRI. and Welbutrin works with noriphramine <sp and is absorbed in the body differently than most anti-depressants.  I have only experienced mild headache and slight confusion in the initial stage and then that wore off. It has been an effective drug for me. Joanna I’m on Effexor 300 mg, dextrametaphine was 15 mg increased to 30 mg, clonazepam 2 mg, & asthma, thyroid  meds. My dr spoke to me about switching the Effexor to Welbuton? [sp?] and leaving I’ve never heard of Lexapro or Cymbalta, can someone fill me in? Deb Berto: I have personally been on both Effexor and Celexa; I did find that Celexa was far better at anxiety reduction (for me), but because it is so specific for serotonin receptors, it is predictably likely to cause sexual problems. I’d like you and your doctor to discuss Cymbalta, the "other SNRI" besides Effexor.  I’ve been taking Cymbalta now for a number of months, and I think it’s an excellent anti-depressant, it still gives me that SSRI anxiety-reduction that I definitely want, and it’s MUCH damn better than Effexor ever thought about being.  That is obviously just anecdotal experience from one person (me) so it may or may not be the same for everyone.  My shrink says most people are giving Cymbalta a big thumbs up, and that he’s very happy with the results in almost all the cases. Effexor is a little bit  uncomfortable to stop taking, so I have no doubt that the same is probably true for Cymbalta – but then from what I hear and read *all* SSRI medications have a "discontinuance syndrome" to one degree or another.  I have stopped them more than a few times cold turkey, and just had some dizziness for a few days.  Some people report more uncomfortable symptoms of discontinuance from SSRI meds.  It is NOT the same kind of thing as dependence on a benzodiazepine; abrupt stopping of a benzo like Xanax can cause life-threatening seizures, whereas abrupt discontinuance of SSRI meds causes uncomfortable symptoms and thoughts/moods – the severity of the syndrome seems to be related to how long the person was on it as well as how high the dose was prior to stopping the drug.   The manufacturers of both Cymbalta AND Effexor recommend in their published prescribing information that if these drugs are to be discontinued that they be tapered down. In my opinion, Cymbalta succeeds at doing what Effexor tried to do. You will hear other opinions if you ask around. Gary I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Under the heading of YMMV, my other course of action is to go up to 40mg of the Celexa. The only predictable part of this is that I know what MORE Celexa will get me – more of the same side effects. The Effexor is a new thing and has unknown upside and downside effects. Time to reach for the eight-ball and ask the question: should I switch to Effexor as my doctor suggests? Thanks for your help, everyone.

Response:

I’m out of Lexapro, but have some Welbutrin in the cupboard (because I didn’t want to take it when the dr. gave it to me to counteract sexual side effects of Lexapro)  Would it be safe to try out the Welbutrin? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Deb,  My 17yo son is taking Lexapro, and I take Welbutrin.  The Welbutrin is good for depression and ADD wuthout sexual side effects.  Lexapro is another SSRI. and Welbutrin works with noriphramine <sp and is absorbed in the body differently than most anti-depressants.  I have only experienced mild headache and slight confusion in the initial stage and then that wore off. It has been an effective drug for me. Joanna I’m on Effexor 300 mg, dextrametaphine was 15 mg increased to 30 mg, clonazepam 2 mg, & asthma, thyroid  meds. My dr spoke to me about switching the Effexor to Welbuton? [sp?] and leaving I’ve never heard of Lexapro or Cymbalta, can someone fill me in? Deb Berto: I have personally been on both Effexor and Celexa; I did find that Celexa was far better at anxiety reduction (for me), but because it is so specific for serotonin receptors, it is predictably likely to cause sexual problems. I’d like you and your doctor to discuss Cymbalta, the "other SNRI" besides Effexor.  I’ve been taking Cymbalta now for a number of months, and I think it’s an excellent anti-depressant, it still gives me that SSRI anxiety-reduction that I definitely want, and it’s MUCH damn better than Effexor ever thought about being.  That is obviously just anecdotal experience from one person (me) so it may or may not be the same for everyone.  My shrink says most people are giving Cymbalta a big thumbs up, and that he’s very happy with the results in almost all the cases. Effexor is a little bit  uncomfortable to stop taking, so I have no doubt that the same is probably true for Cymbalta – but then from what I hear and read *all* SSRI medications have a "discontinuance syndrome" to one degree or another.  I have stopped them more than a few times cold turkey, and just had some dizziness for a few days.  Some people report more uncomfortable symptoms of discontinuance from SSRI meds.  It is NOT the same kind of thing as dependence on a benzodiazepine; abrupt stopping of a benzo like Xanax can cause life-threatening seizures, whereas abrupt discontinuance of SSRI meds causes uncomfortable symptoms and thoughts/moods – the severity of the syndrome seems to be related to how long the person was on it as well as how high the dose was prior to stopping the drug.   The manufacturers of both Cymbalta AND Effexor recommend in their published prescribing information that if these drugs are to be discontinued that they be tapered down. In my opinion, Cymbalta succeeds at doing what Effexor tried to do.  You will hear other opinions if you ask around. Gary I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Under the heading of YMMV, my other course of action is to go up to 40mg of the Celexa. The only predictable part of this is that I know what MORE Celexa will get me – more of the same side effects. The Effexor is a new thing and has unknown upside and downside effects. Time to reach for the eight-ball and ask the question: should I switch to Effexor as my doctor suggests? Thanks for your help, everyone.

Response:

Hi Deb,   My 17yo son is taking Lexapro, and I take Welbutrin.  The Welbutrin is good for depression and ADD wuthout sexual side effects.  Lexapro is another SSRI. and Welbutrin works with noriphramine <sp and is absorbed in the body differently than most anti-depressants.  I have only experienced mild headache and slight confusion in the initial stage and then that wore off. It has been an effective drug for me. Joanna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m on Effexor 300 mg, dextrametaphine was 15 mg increased to 30 mg, clonazepam 2 mg, & asthma, thyroid  meds. My dr spoke to me about switching the Effexor to Welbuton? [sp?] and leaving I’ve never heard of Lexapro or Cymbalta, can someone fill me in? Deb Berto: I have personally been on both Effexor and Celexa; I did find that Celexa was far better at anxiety reduction (for me), but because it is so specific for serotonin receptors, it is predictably likely to cause sexual problems. I’d like you and your doctor to discuss Cymbalta, the "other SNRI" besides Effexor.  I’ve been taking Cymbalta now for a number of months, and I think it’s an excellent anti-depressant, it still gives me that SSRI anxiety-reduction that I definitely want, and it’s MUCH damn better than Effexor ever thought about being.  That is obviously just anecdotal experience from one person (me) so it may or may not be the same for everyone.  My shrink says most people are giving Cymbalta a big thumbs up, and that he’s very happy with the results in almost all the cases. Effexor is a little bit  uncomfortable to stop taking, so I have no doubt that the same is probably true for Cymbalta – but then from what I hear and read *all* SSRI medications have a "discontinuance syndrome" to one degree or another.  I have stopped them more than a few times cold turkey, and just had some dizziness for a few days.  Some people report more uncomfortable symptoms of discontinuance from SSRI meds.  It is NOT the same kind of thing as dependence on a benzodiazepine; abrupt stopping of a benzo like Xanax can cause life-threatening seizures, whereas abrupt discontinuance of SSRI meds causes uncomfortable symptoms and thoughts/moods – the severity of the syndrome seems to be related to how long the person was on it as well as how high the dose was prior to stopping the drug.   The manufacturers of both Cymbalta AND Effexor recommend in their published prescribing information that if these drugs are to be discontinued that they be tapered down. In my opinion, Cymbalta succeeds at doing what Effexor tried to do.  You will hear other opinions if you ask around. Gary I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Under the heading of YMMV, my other course of action is to go up to 40mg of the Celexa. The only predictable part of this is that I know what MORE Celexa will get me – more of the same side effects. The Effexor is a new thing and has unknown upside and downside effects. Time to reach for the eight-ball and ask the question: should I switch to Effexor as my doctor suggests? Thanks for your help, everyone.

Response:

Best SSRI is Lexapro There is no such thing as a *best* SSRI. Although they all work by the same mechanism of action (poorly understood as that is) there are differences in our individual reactions. This very much an YMMV thing. What works for me doesn’t necessarily work for you too. Philip

YMMV– Your Medicine, My Venom?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Best SSRI is Lexapro There is no such thing as a *best* SSRI. Although they all work by the same mechanism of action (poorly understood as that is) there are differences in our individual reactions. This very much an YMMV thing. What works for me doesn’t necessarily work for you too. Philip YMMV– Your Medicine, My Venom? LOL, clever! *Your Mileage May Vary*, well-known internet abbr. P.

Oh, ok… makes sense now that you explained it.  Thanks!

Response:

Deb, I posted a new post to you.  Did you see it yet? Here’s info on Lexapro: http://www.lexapro.com/default.aspx Here’s info on Cymbalta: http://www.depression-guide.com/cymbalta-fibromyalgia.htm I was on Celexa and switched to Cymbalta for several reasons.  The main being I have fibromyalgia and Cymbalta helps a lot with that.  It also reversed the side effects of sexual dysfunction. Hope this helps. —

Question:

sorry, but i have been very busy, we had some elections here i am between your words "Always Hurting" <isitp…@nospam.gmail.com> a

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping.

Bob, good thing you called the police. I hope and pray your father will recover from the beating soon. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

that’s bizarre…..sorry to hear. In the end, I’m glad your dad is o.k. Best wishes to both of you!

Bob, I’m at a total loss for words so I’ll just agree with z. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Bob A"  wrote : He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them. One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely.

        I’m so sorry this happened to your father!  What a horrible thing.   I’m so glad he came back alive and in one piece. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  

        I’m glad they are not out on the loose!   I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.

        I think that’s a very good idea. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD.

        Maybe there’s some form of help.  A lot was learned after 9/11.           I know what this is like.  My best friend’s parents were murdered, and I happened to be in town when it happened.  I’d be glad to share by private mail, if that would help.  Please keep us posted. Dennis — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

x-archive-no=yes We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain.

I’m so sorry to hear this happened to your father, Bob!  There are really some crazy people in the world today.  It’s scary.  A guy who was being hunted by the FBI for murder, rape and kidnapping was just captured yesterday just a few blocks from where I work everyday… and right near where I often eat lunch.  He’s suspected of killing two people.  So we never know what may happen. I will keep your dad…. and you… in my thoughts and prayers!  Hope he is soon feeling much better!  Please give us an update soon to let us know! Take care! MikeH  . — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Bob, Goodness, what an ordeal your dad went through.  I do hope he recovers quickly. It sounds like you did a great job of looking for him and then dealing with this awful situation. I am sorry he had to go through all of this. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. thank you very much for reading. Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Bob, what an awful thing to happen to your Dad!!!  I’m so glad you called the police.  I hope and pray he doesn’t have PTSD from this.  Your poor Dad! what the police do, if anything else. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. thank you very much for reading. Bob

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. thank you very much for reading. Bob

Bob, I am so very sorry this happened to your Dad!  I can’t believe someone would be so cruel (well, I can believe it, but it always shocks me anyway).  My heart goes out to you, your Dad, and the rest of your family. You will all be in my prayers, Bob.  Please email me anytime if you need to talk. (((((((Bob and family))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

that’s bizarre…..sorry to hear. In the end, I’m glad your dad is o.k. Best wishes to both of you! -z-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. thank you very much for reading. Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. thank you very much for reading. Bob

Therte is so much senseless violence around, it’s scary sometimes. Who would beat and tie up an 80 year old man and why? For fun? These are stories one reads about in the paper or watches in movies on TV. You never expect it to happen to *you*. It’s a good thing these people were caught and it seems that your Dad handled the situation extremely well and probably saved his own life. I think you did well too, these guys shouldn’t be on the loose. I hope your Dad’s PTSD will not resurface because of this but it is of course possible that it will. Keep an eye on him, you seem to be good at that. What a story…sigh. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<Gently snipped ::We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have ::happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that ::I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my ::friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not ::to have any more pain. Dear Bob, I am truly sorry that this awful thing happened to your father. I have no doubt that you are telling the truth. I never thought otherwise. Please don`t worry that you won`t be believed. You are amongst friends, who believe in you…. and will do anything we can to get you through this. You Father will be in my thoughts. Sending him healing thoughts, not only for his body, but mind as well. Is there anyway you could get your father some counseling? It could help a lot. I also suggest you give your therapist a call as soon as possible. Some extra sessions could keep you from sliding backwards. ::I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes ::first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday ::activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get ::back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God ::that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house ::goofing off or sleeping. Actually, going on with everyday activities is probably one of the best things you can do. When my life is chaotic for whatever reason, everyday activities provide a diversion and also gives me a sense of normalcy, control, and keeps me from falling into a deeper pit. You are such a good son in how you took charge and wouldn`t stop looking for your father. {{{{{Bob}}}}} {{{{{Father}}}}} ::I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. You will all be in my thoughts. Jackie ~*~I will be the gladdest thing Under the sun! I will touch a hundred flowers And not pick one~*~   ~~Edna St. Vincent Millay, "Afternoon on a Hill" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

x-archive-no=yes I don’t even know if I got that right. I am sitting here wondering what to write.  I have spoken of my dad here before I’m sure.  Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right to tell about it on the internet.  And I suspect some people here even will think I am making this up. I don’t know what to write.  I’ll just make it short.  My dad – I hunted for him for 2-3 hours Monday.  He is almost 80, and I probably haven’t mentioned this, but while he is, of course, not diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, as I think there is no means to accurately diagnose it until after death, he is being treated with some sort of medication which is supposed to slow it down.  I live next door, and was the only one around.  I went hunting for him, and could not find him on the farm.  I realized that an old farm pickup was gone, and decided he had to have gone somewhere in it, but I could not figure out where or why. I did not know who to contact.  I knew I would be in hot water if I called the police and it turned out he was sitting somewhere talking to someone. But I was also suspecting that – well – as time progressed I felt more and more that something was wrong.  I drove all over where I figured he might have gone in this old pickup which is not reliable to drive on the highway far.  I became pretty frantic after a while.  I phoned people asking what to do.  I was told to go look more and not to worry, etc. I heard a vehicle drive in, and I ran to look.  I saw my dad staggering toward the house, and I knew something was wrong, although I didn’t realize why at the moment.  It was that he had only a t-shirt and not a shirt on, and he wouldn’t have gone anywhere like that.  Also he was staggering much worse than usual.  I guess I thought he’d been in a wreck, that is the only thing I could imagine at the time. He had ridden over to a place about three miles away.  The whole story behind this is far too long and complex to tell, so I won’t.  So here is the bottom line I guess.   My dad had been jumped by two people and kept tied up with ropes for over three hours.  They placed a plastic bag over his head, and tied it.  He would I imagine have suffocated quickly but he was able to bite a hole in the bag.  They then tried to stuff it in his mouth, he thinks he bit the finger of one of them.  One sat on his chest for a long time. They beat him severely. He is not ashamed to say he begged for his life.  He told them they couldn’t possibly get away with murdering him.  He thinks that is what saved his life.  They took him to their house where they coerced him into writing out how he had fallen and they had helped him.  They had him sign it, and they photocopied it, then I guess they let him leave. So, I came running out yelling "Are you ok?" and stuff.  Bless his heart, he tried to get me to think he was ok, and to not come over.  I came close enough to see him, and he was all beat up and bloody.  I asked what happened, and he just said, "They beat me up." I was frantic to phone 911 and he kept trying to stop me.  He got out a magnifying glass my mom uses for reading I think, and he wanted me to read this sheet of paper.  I thought, he is delirious, and for sure he was, but I know now that he was afraid at that moment to call the police, he said later that he had promised them he wouldn’t.  I kept phoning 911 and he kept grabbing the phone and telling them not to listen to me.  But a sheriff’s deputy finally came, and took a statement from my dad.  That is the first I heard most of the story. My dad was taken to the emergency room and treated.  He has two broken ribs and is all beat up.  The people who did it, as far as we know, are still in jail.  We hope so, of course.  Deputies are supposed to come today (Wednesday) to make more photographs of him, maybe some other things.  He is doing remarkably well, I’d say.  But I fear he will experience PTSD, which I believe he already has from his experiences in battle in WWII.  He was tied up and thought he was going to be killed, for over three hours. We (the family) are of course still in disbelief that this could have happened.  I guess I am doing ok.  My family, including my dad, tell me that I handled it well.  I don’t know what else to say.  I can only hope that my friends here will believe this unbelievable story, and pray for my dad not to have any more pain. I have other things to write about, and advice to ask.  But this comes first.  I feel like it is wrong or senseless to go on with everyday activities.  I feel certain that will pass soon.  I feel like I need to get back to life so that a depression or something doesn’t set in.  I thank God that at least I was out looking for my dad, and not sitting in my house goofing off or sleeping. I guess that is all.  Please pray that my dad will not suffer from PTSD. thank you very much for reading. Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Hi all, having recently begun a series of anti-depressants (Cipralix 20mg) following a rough patch, I have begun to experience a lot of nighttime sweating. There really is a lot of it and a towel has become a regular accompaniment to going to bed. A recent search of medical websites has shown that others have experienced this i.e. anti-depressant use and nighttime sweating. Has anyone else experienced something similar and is there any advice you can give, in wet anticipation Thanks Tim

Response:

"miami_librarian" <miami_librar…@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message

news:IbW7e.63738$NC6.46483@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net… > Also, do you experience double vision?  I have had what they call a 6th > nerve palsy since 1999, and it has really messed me up. > t

 i got my ms dx when i had that exact same attack,, right eye 6th nerve optic palsey,,  i went thru many many eye patches,, over the years,, i like the foam ones best,, it does get tiring when i need my eye patch gettin asked by kids if i am a pirate,,,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  today my right eye is not that bad,, but i got optic neuritis in my left eye last year,, and that is bothering me now,,,  i learned from my neuro-opthamologist that the tissue leading from the brain to the eye -optic nerve, is actually an extension of the brain,, and brain tissue,, not really a nerve,at all. bobbyD

Response:

hi tim, i have expericed very bad night sweats while on antidepressants…. but come to find out i was very ill.. i’m fine now… i urge you to see your doc…. best wishes…. dory ……." There is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that its rather hard to discern which of us ought to reform the rest of us"………..                       ………Alain Fournier………

Response:

Tim –  I experience the "sleep sweats’ (although mine are mainly when I sleep during the day).  The sweating seems to coincide with my use of SSRIs. Strangely, my spouse is not driven into an amorous frenzy by the soaked T-shirts upon my awakening.  Go figure.  I thought it would appear rugged, in a fatigued-sort-of way. "Tim" <timward…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:b497a89d.0504061113.6b31f063@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > having recently begun a series of anti-depressants (Cipralix 20mg) > following a rough patch, I have begun to experience a lot of nighttime > sweating. There really is a lot of it and a towel has become a regular > accompaniment to going to bed. A recent search of medical websites has > shown that others have experienced this i.e. anti-depressant use and > nighttime sweating. Has anyone else experienced something similar and > is there any advice you can give, > in wet anticipation > Thanks > Tim

Response:

Hi Mark,  have experienced frequent night-sweats.  Tell me, do you also get the FUOs? [Fevers of unknown origin].  Mine spike above 105 at times, and it is a real bummer.  One times I sat in the bath tub and was so cold my kids were boiling water on the stove and carrying in the pots so I could warm up. Needless to say, the neuro said no more to that. Also, do you experience double vision?  I have had what they call a 6th nerve palsy since 1999, and it has really messed me up. t "Mark" <mbb…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:d2I5e.2989$An2.2864@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tim –  I experience the "sleep sweats’ (although mine are mainly when I > sleep during the day).  The sweating seems to coincide with my use of > SSRIs. Strangely, my spouse is not driven into an amorous frenzy by the > soaked T-shirts upon my awakening.  Go figure.  I thought it would appear > rugged, in a fatigued-sort-of way. > "Tim" <timward…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b497a89d.0504061113.6b31f063@posting.google.com… >> Hi all, >> having recently begun a series of anti-depressants (Cipralix 20mg) >> following a rough patch, I have begun to experience a lot of nighttime >> sweating. There really is a lot of it and a towel has become a regular >> accompaniment to going to bed. A recent search of medical websites has >> shown that others have experienced this i.e. anti-depressant use and >> nighttime sweating. Has anyone else experienced something similar and >> is there any advice you can give, >> in wet anticipation >> Thanks >> Tim

Response:

g’day tim have you checked all other meds that you’re taking as well? for instance, some cough syrups can cause night sweats. maybe you could also examine any interactions between meds that you’re on. also, maybe your doc could try a different anti depressant, see if that makes a difference. it’s a horrible symptom, whatever the cause. the best home improvement we’ve ever made is to put a ceiling fan in the bedroom. as well as find a lightweight cover. take care that you don’t dehydrate. if you find out any more, please report back and let us know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tim wrote: > Hi all, > having recently begun a series of anti-depressants (Cipralix 20mg) > following a rough patch, I have begun to experience a lot of nighttime > sweating. There really is a lot of it and a towel has become a regular > accompaniment to going to bed. A recent search of medical websites has > shown that others have experienced this i.e. anti-depressant use and > nighttime sweating. Has anyone else experienced something similar and > is there any advice you can give, > in wet anticipation > Thanks > Tim

Response:

"Tim" <timward…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:b497a89d.0504061113.6b31f063@posting.google.com… > Hi all, > having recently begun a series of anti-depressants (Cipralix 20mg) > following a rough patch, I have begun to experience a lot of nighttime > sweating. There really is a lot of it and a towel has become a regular > accompaniment to going to bed. A recent search of medical websites has > shown that others have experienced this i.e. anti-depressant use and > nighttime sweating. Has anyone else experienced something similar and > is there any advice you can give, > in wet anticipation > Thanks > Tim

Its a major sign of Post Tramatic Stress Disorder.  You may want to dump the meds and see a councellor.  Just an FYI.  I dont recall the specifics right now, but for some reason the chems released during stressed sleep invoke a biofeedback loop that fools the body into trying to cool itself down.  I wish I could be more specific.  Are you cold, or shivering when you awake? I used to soak my sheets and wake up freezing prior to quiting prozac.  It stopped almost the day I quit taking it.  I wish I could recall how PTSD causes the sweats more clearly, but it does.  And dont freak over me saying that please; it can be caused by anything, in anybody.  Mental stability, etc., plays no part in it.   Its not psychological, its biological.  But a councellor can help discover the cause and defuse it.  (This most likely isnt the case for you, just a possibility.) Rob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tim wrote: > Hi all, > having recently begun a series of anti-depressants (Cipralix 20mg) > following a rough patch, I have begun to experience a lot of nighttime > sweating. There really is a lot of it and a towel has become a regular > accompaniment to going to bed. A recent search of medical websites has > shown that others have experienced this i.e. anti-depressant use and > nighttime sweating. Has anyone else experienced something similar and > is there any advice you can give, > in wet anticipation > Thanks > Tim

Hi Tim You may try to use sage.(There is a product called Sweatosan,here in Europe,with sage as its main ingredient.) Regs,Tom

Response:

Question:

"p fogg" <pf…@triad.rr.com> who is a closet loony wrote in news:pFg2e.78176$wl4.2258472@twister.southeast.rr.com: > Hi Je

Question:

I have had mixed results with St Johns Wort, it has helped me sometimes but other times I have done better without it ..go figure.  I don’t intend to scare anyone but even though you can purchase this OTC it is still a drug.  Make sure that you are informed before using it, talk with your doc and get a high quality product.  There are lots of foods that will interact with SJW includeing coffee, aged cheeses, yogurt, anything fermented and more that I don’t recall.  And of course other meds.  Best advice Find a naturopathic physcian to help you. Jess

Response:

I found it very good. It made me feel very strong about myself and stupid things didnt bother me. But go to a health food store and get the one  that is just St. JOhns wort. Also I read alot and understand it better and I also watched my Diet.

Response:

Hi, has anyone taken St. John’s Wort for depression, anxiety, etc.?  If so, I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of taking it in place of Paxil.  I was on Paxil for nearly a year and it did not do me a whole lot of good and I gained unwanted and unwelcomed weight.  Thanks.  :) Kerry Roberts Newfoundland, Canada

Response:

Hi, Kerry…. St. John’s Wort has been discussed a great deal on the newsgroup…..you might find out a lot of information by going to www.dejanews.com and typing in "alt.support.anxiety-panic" to go through some of those old threads….. Also, in case you don’t know, there is lots of info on SJW to be found at http://www.hypericum.com Hope this helps a bit……MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, has anyone taken St. John’s Wort for depression, anxiety, etc.?  If so, I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of taking it in place of Paxil.  I was on Paxil for nearly a year and it did not do me a whole lot of good and I gained unwanted and unwelcomed weight.  Thanks.  :) Kerry Roberts Newfoundland, Canada

Response:

Kelly, I am in the same position as yourself where none of the antidepressants have seemed to work.  I am also planning to try the St. John’s Wort because several of my family members have tried it and it seems to be effective for them. Maybe that will help. Take care, Jennifer

Response:

Please do not cross post.   Hi, has anyone taken St. John’s Wort for depression, anxiety, etc.?  If so, I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of taking it in place of Paxil.  I was on Paxil for nearly a year and it did not do me a whole lot of good and I gained unwanted and unwelcomed weight.  Thanks.  :) Kerry Roberts Newfoundland, Canada

IMHO there is nothing wrong with the list of groups that Kerry crossposted to!! Also, crossposting has several advantages, including helping newsreaders do their job more efficiently, and using less network bandwidth than sending an individual copy to each desired newsgroup!! – John G.

Response:

HI, IMHO, St. John’s Wort works far better than the prescription antidepressants i’ve tried (Wellbutrin, Prozac, Serzone, Paxil).  My psychiatrist dismisses it as a "temporary high" that doesn’t really work, but he’s not the one with depression.  The bottom line is that unless you try it yourself, you’ll never really know if ir works for you or not.  But i do testify that the SJW has powerful antidepressant capabilities. T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, has anyone taken St. John’s Wort for depression, anxiety, etc.?  If so, I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of taking it in place of Paxil.  I was on Paxil for nearly a year and it did not do me a whole lot of good and I gained unwanted and unwelcomed weight.  Thanks.  :) Kerry Roberts Newfoundland, Canada

Response:

My main question is whether there is a ramp-up period for St. Johns’ wort? After the obligatory weaning from Prozac, started with SJW two days back. Does it take a while to reach its potential like the synthetics? Any thoughts appreciated.

Response:

        I took Prozac for several months and while it helped my depression I had a lot of problems with the side effects. I decided to try Sjw for a while and see if the side effects went away and if my depression came back to haunt me.         So far I can say tht the SJW has worked very well. In truth I think I feel better than I did on Prozac. But I suspect part of that is just the fact that I am not battling the side effects.         I discovered that I had forgotten to take my Prozac for a week and decided not to take more. I didn’t worry about a ‘weaning’ as I had recently read an article about how some doctors are prescribing Prozac and SJW together.         Ask me again in a few months and we’ll see how my life progresses. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, has anyone taken St. John’s Wort for depression, anxiety, etc.?  If so, I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of taking it in place of Paxil.  I was on Paxil for nearly a year and it did not do me a whole lot of good and I gained unwanted and unwelcomed weight.  Thanks.  :) Kerry Roberts Newfoundland, Canada

Response:

My main question is whether there is a ramp-up period for St. Johns’ wort? After the obligatory weaning from Prozac, started with SJW two days back. Does it take a while to reach its potential like the synthetics?

My neighbor said it took about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks to get a ‘lift’ from St. Johns’ Worth, but he is pretty satisfied with the results.  He’s more of a dysthemic (low-grade depressive) than a seriously depressed person, however; if you are suffering from a severe depression, I would recommend you try an MAOI. Veruca (cured with Nardil for seven years)

Response:

Kerry, I’ve been taking SJW for nearly a year now, and except for this last month (having been experiencing the "winter blues" on top of it all) it has been a much better experience than on Paxil. However, I’d recommend talking to your doctor before switching, and whatever you do — don’t suddenly stop taking Paxil, as an abrupt change often causes depression to come back in full swing. I have a "little" (well not so little anymore) web page that many people have visited… the address is in he .sig.  It’s not a wonder herb or wonder drug but many people have had success with it, including me obviously. Hi, has anyone taken St. John’s Wort for depression, anxiety, etc.?  If so, I would like to hear from you.  I am thinking of taking it in place of Paxil.  I was on Paxil for nearly a year and it did not do me a whole lot of good and I gained unwanted and unwelcomed weight.  Thanks.  :) Kerry Roberts Newfoundland, Canada

– http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Lagoon/5942/stjohns.html (my St. John’s Wort web page – last updated December 3, 1997)

Response:

However, I’d recommend talking to your doctor before switching, and whatever you do — don’t suddenly stop taking Paxil, as an abrupt change often causes depression to come back in full swing.

I would like to know if you have any information on taking SJW along with SSRI’s…..curious to see if anyone has tried the combo?

Response:

   Like CW, I believe I’ve read SJW should *not* be taken concurrently with other anti-depressants.  The info was almost certainly somewhere on the best SJW website.  Click on http://www.hypericum.com Regards, and God bless. JR — Note:  If you wish me to receive your response to this newsgroup post in private Email, please be sure to remove the anti-spam extra letters "ny" from the reply-address.  Make it say johnreb, not johnny. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, I’d recommend talking to your doctor before switching, and whatever you do — don’t suddenly stop taking Paxil, as an abrupt change often causes depression to come back in full swing. I would like to know if you have any information on taking SJW along with SSRI’s…..curious to see if anyone has tried the combo?

Response:

: Is the St. John’s Wort effective for social phobia? Has anyone had good : results with these symptoms of depression in particular?  From what I’ve : read only the SSRI’s and MAOI’s are used for this condition. I’d like to : avoid these medications if possible. Thanks! From what I was able to find out about SJW, it is a MAOI. I’m too fussy an eater to be a candidate for anything that threatens to be a MAOI. Too bad there’s no botanical beta blocker. I’d end up "addicted" to the stuff. Wierd as it sounds, I’m really glad I have the high blood pressure that beta blockers are used for normally. If they made Toprol XL OTC tomorrow and I was a celeb, I’d gladly endorce the product. For me, it works absolute WONDERS. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680                      "A man’s car is his battleship" 1573795 bytes of spam mail deleted.           http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/

Response:

Is the St. John’s Wort effective for social phobia? Has anyone had good results with these symptoms of depression in particular?  From what I’ve read only the SSRI’s and MAOI’s are used for this condition. I’d like to avoid these medications if possible. Thanks! Travis

  I have used it to treat my depression/social phobia with mixed benefits. It helps much more with the anxiety than traditional SSRI’s but not as much as Clomiprimine (TCA) (although SJW has no side affects where as clomipramine gave me headaches/nausea for the first 3 weeks). You can always try it in conjunction with other herbal sedatives (eg- Valerian Root, Passionflower). You might like to try http://www.hypericum.com they now have a discussion forum on SJW and seem to be about the best SJW reference on the net. regards Michael Chinn

Response:

: : Which only goes to prove that you should never believe : anything your read on the ‘net. But Gary, isn’t this post a paradox? …

Yes, but a full house beats a paradox every time. Ohhh, Arthur! I bet you’re one of those irritating souls who does crossword puzzles with a ball-point and got double 800s on the SATs, huh? Virginia Me, I did better on the PSATs than the SATs…which is documentary evidence I’m getting dumber all the time.

Response:

: : Which only goes to prove that you should never believe : anything your read on the ‘net. But Gary, isn’t this post a paradox? …

Yes — Gary Cooper

Response:

Are we saying here that the SSRI’s are not MAO inhibitors?  I’m particularly interested in the verdict here on Prozak. Some brief impressions on SJW, hypericum, after about a week of taking an over-the-healthfood-counter variety…. It does work, but must have a far shorter half-life than any of the synthetics.  I really get up on the wrong side of the bed, for example. Creative endeavors, music, reading, writing, however, if persisted in until a second-wind state is reached, are much more fulfilling than with ‘Zak or Zoloft. For what it’s worth, a certain aspect of life once thought consigned to the ruins of mid-life decline returns somewhat with SJW.   I do have to guard against irritability vs. the days of Z&Z.  (‘Zak and Zoloft that is.) — —When even I can add up the days till the millenium, you know it’s gettin’

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<snip Sadly, it is *you* who is not up to speed on St. John’s Wort. Had you been following this NG, and had you read the recent posts on the subject by Hirsch Davis (clue: Deja News), you might have learned something. — Gary Cooper

  THOUSAND LASHES for being so smart-assed.  If ya are gonna correct someone, don’t be a smart ass about it! (yes, I am being hypocritical, helps ya get my point). kevo295 –who doesn’t like searing swords at peoples throats.

  vcard.vcf

< 1K Download

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Actually, the web site for the book "Hypericum and Depression" does dispute this claim. Here it is quoted:

<snipped Which only goes to prove that you should never believe anything your read on the ‘net. — Gary Cooper

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  THOUSAND LASHES for being so smart-assed.  If ya are gonna correct someone,  don’t be a smart ass about it! (yes, I am being hypocritical, helps ya get my point). kevo295 –who doesn’t like searing swords at peoples throats.

Yes, you’re right. You’re being a hypocrite. — Gary Cooper

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: : Which only goes to prove that you should never believe : anything your read on the ‘net. But Gary, isn’t this post a paradox? …                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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B-carboline is a mild, reversable monoamine oxidase inhibitor, yet there are no dietary restrictions with it.  I don’t think that the lack of dietary restrictions is enough to PROVE that hypericin is not an MAO inhibitor. "Time never started at all.  Chaos never died.    The Empire was never founded.  We are not  now & never have been slaves to the past or  hostages to the future,"                           Hakim Bey

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Please, be careful talking about something you don’t seem to know anything about.  If SJW were a MAOI then I’d likely be dead from all the red wine, cheese, and sausage that I eat on a regular basis.  It’s good to warn people, but there’s no reason to scare people based on misinformation. I have a personal web page on SJW setup for more info, it’s totally non-commercial, and I have absolutely no vested interest in SJW other than I use it myself and wanted to tell the world and try to help someone else…

Sadly, it is *you* who is not up to speed on St. John’s Wort. Had you been following this NG, and had you read the recent posts on the subject by Hirsch Davis (clue: Deja News), you might have learned something. — Gary Cooper

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If SJW were a MAOI

Hypericin is a mild, reversable monoamine oxidase inhibitor.  This does not mean that this is SJW’s mechanism of action, nor does it mean that this is the ONLY pharmacological action of hypericin. However, the fact is a fact, and I don’t think anyone disputes it. then I’d likely be dead

You’re not dead because it is weak and reversable. "Time never started at all.  Chaos never died.    The Empire was never founded.  We are not  now & never have been slaves to the past or  hostages to the future,"                           Hakim Bey

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Hypericin is a mild, reversable monoamine oxidase inhibitor.  This does not mean that this is SJW’s mechanism of action, nor does it mean that this is the ONLY pharmacological action of hypericin. However, the fact is a fact, and I don’t think anyone disputes it. Actually, the web site for the book "Hypericum and Depression" does dispute this claim. Here it is quoted: THERE ARE NO DIETARY RESTRICTIONS

tot homines, tot sententiae It was once thought hypericum acts as a MAO inhibitor, and MAO inhibitors have some specific dietary restrictions that are vital for people taking MAO inhibitors to observe. Further research, however, proved that hypericum does NOT act as a MAO inhibitor. Therefore, none of the dietary restrictions that people taking MAO inhibitors must follow apply to those taking hypericum.

There are some people reporting headache with several food, sounds like   MAO…Some Pages I have seen are reporting a MAOI-effect, too. But sounds like there are other effects, too. hypericum is, as cannabis, a long term ignored drug. In 10 years there will be approved facts, but today I think there is a   lot of speculative argumentation. Alas, the old information was published in a 1997 article in (I am told) Prevention Magazine, misinformation which has echoed again and again across the web. I trust Prevention will print an update soon, if they already have not done so by the time you’ve read this. (You can do your part in cleaning up this misinformation on the web by sending e-mails to the sites saying that there are not dietary restrictions for those taking hypericum. To repeat: there are none.)

may be side effects are linked with dosage ? — Ralph Eisermann Wuermstrasse 1c Karlsfeld bei Muenchen D – 85757 ISDN: 49-8131-505338

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: Is the St. John’s Wort effective for social phobia? Has anyone had good : results with these symptoms of depression in particular?  From what I’ve : read only the SSRI’s and MAOI’s are used for this condition. I’d like to : avoid these medications if possible. Thanks! From what I was able to find out about SJW, it is a MAOI. I’m too fussy an eater to be a candidate for anything that threatens to be a MAOI. Too bad there’s no botanical beta blocker. I’d end up "addicted" to the stuff. Wierd as it sounds, I’m really glad I have the high blood pressure that beta blockers are used for normally. If they made Toprol XL OTC tomorrow and I was a celeb, I’d gladly endorce the product. For me, it works absolute WONDERS.

Please, be careful talking about something you don’t seem to know anything about.  If SJW were a MAOI then I’d likely be dead from all the red wine, cheese, and sausage that I eat on a regular basis.  It’s good to warn people, but there’s no reason to scare people based on misinformation. I have a personal web page on SJW setup for more info, it’s totally non-commercial, and I have absolutely no vested interest in SJW other than I use it myself and wanted to tell the world and try to help someone else… — http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Lagoon/5942/stjohns.html (my St. John’s Wort web page – last updated December 3, 1997)

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Hi all. Has anyone tried/used St.Johns Wort for their anxiety? I started it this morning in hopes of not going to anything to strong. I took elavil for awhile but I started sleep walking a great deal … For me, one of the most troubling symptoms is the chronoc light-headedness. If I could just get rid of that …

Your best bet is to go to Deja News and search for St. John’s Wort. There has been a lot of discussion of it on this NG and a trawl through that source will help you re-cap on people’s experiences. There’s also an FAQ, prepared by Sonja, which I’m e-mailing you. Hope that’s some help. — Gary Cooper

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Hi all. Has anyone tried/used St.Johns Wort for their anxiety? I started it this morning in hopes of not going to anything to strong. I took elavil for awhile but I started sleep walking a great deal … For me, one of the most troubling symptoms is the chronoc light-headedness. If I could just get rid of that … …Pete

I tried it for a little while. Unfortunately, it made me feel slightly nauseous, so I basically worried about that until I stopped.  Sorry, I didn’t have much luck with it.  I seemed to think Kava Kava worked better for anxiety.

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Hi all. Has anyone tried/used St.Johns Wort for their anxiety? I started it this morning in hopes of not going to anything to strong. I took elavil for awhile but I started sleep walking a great deal … For me, one of the most troubling symptoms is the chronoc light-headedness. If I could just get rid of that … …Pete

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Peter,    There is an entire web site devoted to information about St. John’s Wort at http://www.hypericum.com , including the text of a whole book written about it by Peter McWilliams.    You can also search at www.dejanews.com for articles posted to this n/g about SJW.    As far as I can tell, the majority of the people who have tried it and also post here have had little or no relief. This could be due to a huge number of factors, though, and you may be one who benefits from it’s use.    We’d certainly like to hear from you as to how it’s working. Elizabeth (Owned By Birds)

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I don’t know about anyone else, but I tried St John’s Wort for about a year when I had no prescription insurance and couldn’t afford my Zoloft.  The Wort had no effect at all, that I could tell.

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    Does anyone have any experience using St. John’s Wort for anxiety?  I have read in a number of places that it can be an effective treatment.  If it is, how long does it take to work?  Thanks in advance!

   If St. Johns Wort works for you, full beneficial effects should show in 3-5 weeks.   I take SJW at 600 mg. a day. I have also taken the amino acids GABA, L-Tryptophan, and DL- PHENYLALAINE with it.  I also take 30 mg. of Elavil with it. Under physician supervision I have had no negative interaction with the combination. I have had no astounding results with the combination, but it seems to do okay. From time to time, I also take .25 mg of Klonopin when my equalibrium acts up. I try not to use much of the Klonopin because the more often I use it, the less it helps calm the inner ear. The main advantage to amino acid supplements is that if they do help, side effects are almost non-existent. My doctor wants to try the antidepressant Vestra when it comes out early next year because it doesn’t have a lot of the anticholinergic effects that the Elavil has. Until then, I’ll stick to what I have to use.. I take 100 mg. Tryptophan at night. I take  500 mg. GABA at night. I take  500 mg. DL- PHENYLALAINE in the morning. Cmat

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Hi,    Does anyone have any experience using St. John’s Wort for anxiety?  I have read in a number of places that it can be an effective treatment.  If it is, how long does it take to work?  Thanks in advance!

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Rusty and Red, Kava kava is an anti-anxiety herb and sedating.  Long term uses turns the skin, nails, etc. temporarily yellow.  St. John’s Wort is an anti-depression herb, Trudy Before you buy.

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Does anyone know of a cheap supplier of st johns wort tablets. Here in australia, its very expensive, despite the stuff growing in farmers fields as a weed. can the plant be used in herbal teas or the leaves eaten? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Hello I am new to this newsgroup, and I don’t know if this will be much help as I have never taken St John’s Wort myself.  I do know of two websites that might be of use though. http://www.frontiercoop.com/herbfest/98/notes/snjwort.html (the bottom section has some info on side-effects) http://www.doh.gov.uk/cmo/cmo00_04.htm  (from the Department of Health here in the UK) I hope this is some help to you. Good luck and let me know how you get on. Lynda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so you know I’m afraid to take "anything" unless it’s Advil or Tylenol, but a friend of mine takes St. John’s Wort and she says that it has made a marked improvement in her life. Anyone here use it or have tried it? Any side effects????<you know that question was coming! LOL Any info on St. John’s Wort would be appreciated. Thanks, — Andrea Visit my anxiety/panic website at http://buildingblox.homestead.com Shop My Store – Get 30% off (up to $30.00) http://hudsonplace.homestead.com

Before you buy.

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I take St. John’s Wort, and have never had a problem (that I’m aware of…) with it.  I drink a lot of coffee and eat cheese, but don’t eat meat since I’m a vegetarian.  I find SJW quite helpful. Before you buy.

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Dear Pretty One,      I have recently started taking Kava Kava and like it.

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OK, so you know I’m afraid to take "anything" unless it’s Advil or Tylenol, but a friend of mine takes St. John’s Wort and she says that it has made a marked improvement in her life. Anyone here use it or have tried it? Any side effects????<you know that question was coming! LOL Any info on St. John’s Wort would be appreciated. Thanks, — Andrea Visit my anxiety/panic website at http://buildingblox.homestead.com Shop My Store – Get 30% off (up to $30.00) http://hudsonplace.homestead.com

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Hi Andrea- I’m posting from hubby’s addy, because I can’t access NG from mine.  Oh the pleasures of technology. I have researched herbal/alternative medicine extensively, and there are some precautions that need to be taken.  First and foremost one must remember that herbs are drugs too.  SJW is an MAO inhibitor (I know some may argue this, but there is not conclusive evedance that it is not, so until then treat it like it is for your safety), and because of this there are foods that should be avoided while taking SJW, i.e. coffee, yogurt, smoked and cured fishes and meats, anything fermented, and aged cheeses.  These foods contain chemicals that can react with the SJW and caused increased heart rate, blood pressure, or even death.   To anyone who wishes to try herbal remedies, do your homework first, talk to your doctor about it, and try to find a good herbalist as well. I am in no way down on herbs, I just want to make sure that you are all as well informed as you can possibly be.  Herbs need to be respected and used carefully.  They can be beneficial when used correctly.  I would hate to see someone get hurt because the nescessary information is not disclosed on the labeling. I took SJW in combination with Ginsing for about eight months with great results but it seemed to lose its effectiveness for me.  I also became very sensitive to it, it upset my stomach and agrivated my allergies, this was about 7 months into taking it.  SJW will also make your skin more sensitive to the suns damaging rays. Take care, Jess – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so you know I’m afraid to take "anything" unless it’s Advil or Tylenol, but a friend of mine takes St. John’s Wort and she says that it has made a marked improvement in her life. Anyone here use it or have tried it? Any side effects????<you know that question was coming! LOL Any info on St. John’s Wort would be appreciated. Thanks, — Andrea Visit my anxiety/panic website at http://buildingblox.homestead.com Shop My Store – Get 30% off (up to $30.00) http://hudsonplace.homestead.com

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[snipped for enviromental reasons] Bob, go away.

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My best friend suffered a serious depression some two years ago.  She got off medication after a year but continued to feel "melancholic" as she put it.  She recently told me that she has been using St.John’s Wort and realized just how effective it was when she ran out for a while.  Now she is heading off to the health food store again because she says that she doesn’t want to go back to living ‘like that’. I’m definitely going to try it! Isabelle

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Just curious to know if anyone has any knowledge of the herb known as St. Jonns Wort, I’ve read that it is used in germany as a very effective treatment for anxiety and depression, any commentas would be appreciated. Thanks Rocco

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: Just curious to know if anyone has any knowledge of the herb known as : St. Jonns Wort, I’ve read that it is used in germany as a very effective : treatment for anxiety and depression, any commentas would be : appreciated. : Thanks : Rocco Although I have no direct practical knowledge of St. Johns Wort, I do have with others, as when my 7 children and I lived in Ferry County WA., we were 5 miles from nearest phone, electricity etc…and we came to learn a lot about herbs from friends… From Herbs by Lesley Bremness – Dorling Kindersley publishers: "The leaves are used for salads and to flavor liqueurs. Extract of the calms nerves and treats depression. It is under research for AIDS treatment." First US copyright date is 1994. It apparently was published abroad for a bit. It has *excellent* pictures and is my prime herb book next to Kloss.

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I also used SJW for depression with success.  My diagnosis is PTSD, not PD. good luck — take care, Renee

Renee, I wonder whether you subscribe to Shipko’s idea (which I tentatively share) that PTSD is *acquired* PD. Or do you believe it’s a totally different disorder? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SJW is often cited as a depression aid.  Has anyone experienced or heard about its usefulness for PD?

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I also used SJW for depression with success.  My diagnosis is PTSD, not PD. good luck — take care, Renee No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new heaven to the human spirit. –Helen Keller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SJW is often cited as a depression aid.  Has anyone experienced or heard about its usefulness for PD?

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SJW is often cited as a depression aid.  Has anyone experienced or heard about its usefulness for PD? Thanks for your help! Brad

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I used SJW successfully for 2 years for *mild* (mostly seasonal) depression. However, it was, IMO, ineffective for anxiety and I discontinued using it to go back on AD. Charley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SJW is often cited as a depression aid.  Has anyone experienced or heard about its usefulness for PD? Thanks for your help! Brad

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SJW is often cited as a depression aid.  Has anyone experienced or heard about its usefulness for PD?

I used it with Kavakava to stave off anxiety for almost a year. I guess it helped, but not as much as the current pharmaceutical combo I’m on. And it did nothing to stop the onset of my current PD episode. YMMV, of course. —- "And they’re giving me a wonderful potion, ‘Cause I cannot contain my emotion." –Peter Gabriel, 1972 (Three cheers for antidepressants, tranquilizers and alt.support.anxiety-panic!) http://hometown.aol.com/rush3671/myhomepage/profile.html

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SJW is often cited as a depression aid.  Has anyone experienced or heard about its usefulness for PD? Thanks for your help! Brad

For some it’s OK but for most (especially with severe PD) prescription meds seem more reliable. Philip

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Does it really work, if you use it over time?

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Does it really work, if you use it over time?

For me it worked alright.  Not as well as the prescription anti-depressants I took later on did though.  It can cause stomach problems with long term use, something to be aware of.  A personal note if you have seasonal allergies I’d urge you to stay clear.  For me after 6-9 months of daily useage seasonal allergies appeared in the dead of winter.  When I talked to my Dr. about it we decided to cut out the SJW and see if that made a differance, within a few days the allergy symptoms were gone. Jess

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From what I understand it functions as a sort of MAO inhibitor.  Some people have told me they liked it and some have not – making it hard to really say. I would not take any of it if I was on an SSRI like Paxil or Effexor etc.. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does it really work, if you use it over time?

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From what I understand it functions as a sort of MAO inhibitor.  Some people have told me they liked it and some have not – making it hard to really say. I would not take any of it if I was on an SSRI like Paxil or Effexor etc.. Gary

Indeed not. Because of the alleged MAOI-properties of SJW a wash-out period of two weeks between an allopathic AD and SJW (and the other way round) is very much recommended. SJW seems to work for some people for mild to moderate depression. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does it really work, if you use it over time?

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According to my psychiatrist, it can be efficacious for mild anxiety. I need a medication that is stronger. Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does it really work, if you use it over time?

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Does it really work, if you use it over time?

Yes, but it has worse side effects than rx meds and costs just as much as a generic SSRI.  There isn’t much point in using it IMHO.  If you can’t afford to get an rx, go to www.drugbuyers.com and find a reputable overseas pharmacy to order from.

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Does it really work, if you use it over time?

I tried it twice.  The glands near my jaw and throat swelled up both times. That alone made me not want to take it.  The relief of symptoms was minor, but noticeable.  I have an online friend that believes in this stuff and says it changed her life.  For me, it made me feel sick, but only slightly less depressed.

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Here’s a study comparing St. John’s Wort and Paxil. You can download the full text of the study from the publisher at http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38356.655266.82v1.pdf Some key points to consider about the study: [1] Out of 301 people initially screened, only 271 were selected to participate. Of that, only 188 people actually completed the study. That’s a pretty small sample. Even the researchers themselves are careful to remind us of this when they say "…the convincing results for hypericum extract WS 5570 observed in this trial deserve independent confirmation by other research…" [2] The compound cited is hypericum extract WS 5570, manufactured only by Dr Willmar Schwabe Pharmaceuticals in Germany. Not all extracts are the same. In the US, hypericum extracts are considered a supplement. That means quality/potency isn’t regulated, so the amount of active ingredient (hypericum) frequently varies by manufacturer and even from batch-to-batch. One really doesn’t know how much hypericum is in each dose of supplement versions unless the manufacturer performs rigorous testing and provides certification of same. [3] The cost of the tested compounds was not considered in the study. While this specific extract of SJW may be more effective and have less side-effects, it is not covered by insurance. I can’t find a price for WS 5570 specifically, but products of sufficient quality to produce the same theraputic effect cost between $80-$141/mo when taking the 300mg/dose 3x/day protocol outlined in th study. Paxil costs $5-$15 deductible/mo with insurance. One last thought: People often think because a supplement comes from an herb, bark, seed, etc, that it isn’t a drug. Nothing could be further from the truth. As others have indicated in this thread, some supplements have the benefits – and side effects – of the medications they are touted to replace. The study article reinforces the fact that a high-quality SJW extract contains psychoactive compounds that manipulate serotonin in the exact same manner as Paxil does, albeit with less side effects. Here are some resources that are medically-reviewed and provide information on the benefits and side-effects of various supplements. http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/181_07_041004/jor10845_fm.html http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic449.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&… http://www.geri.com/geriatrics/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=122404 (requires adobe acrobat reader) http://altmed.creighton.edu/periop/adverse_effects1.htm I can’t tell if this article was medically-reviewed, but worthy of a look: http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?FOLDER… (be sure to click on "12 supplements to avoid" link in left column) Hope this helps.

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Question:

Larry wrote…"It reminded me very much of the Johnny Cash song —

Drunken Ira Hayes — a couple years before he was my hero, but when I met him in the line of duty he was a drunken alcoholic — first of many life lessons in understanding we are all human"… — — Whenever I hear that song I think of a bumper sticker I used to see when visiting the rez in Oklahoma, "Ira Hayes died for your sins."  When I realize how PTSD was misunderstood and/or ignored after ALL wars I understand its meaning. Hayes is a symbol of how society so often drops the ball when heroes are screaming out for help.  Alcoholism, drug abuse and an unwillingness to rejoin the mainstream are not a sign of weakness, they are a sign of deep rooted problems that can be addressed with proper attention.   Ira Hayes came home a much decorated veteran to much hoopla and publicity and then, in his case, was eventually forgotten by a country that tended to ignore him because of his NDN heritage.   It wasn’t so much the horrors of war that created his PTSD as the survivor’s guilt he carried and the nation that shunned him.   Without a wife that really believed her wedding vows, "in sickness and in health, til death do us part" and a few close buddies, I might have joined him.  When I count my heroes, of which there are many, she’s number one on the list.  Ira Hayes is on there somewhere too. Thanks Larry, Tick PS:  Btw, while I’m on this subject I have an 80 year old uncle that helped raise me who was a combat infantryman in France during WW II.  He has suffered PTSD (they called it ’shell shocked’ back then) for over 60 years.  He’s now living in a Veterans Home in Norman, Oklahoma and could sure use some prayers and good wishes.  He had his second stroke last week and we are worried that he may lose this battle.  I’m praying that if it’s meant to be, he goes peacefully.  He’s on that list of heroes too. *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** Visit Me At Tick’s Place… http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

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Please.  Need help.

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"Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message

news:dDMYd.17211$2s.15539@lakeread06… > Please.  Need help.

 we come here all hours,,, what is your problem,?, please let us know if we can assist you in any way,,, info, talkin,, etc,,, our ears are open,, bobbyD

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Al – Hi -I am fairly new here – and do not know a 24 hr number — But – is there any way that I could be of help to you ? Dove

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Wife has had MS for a long time with no significant changes, but over the last few days is losing ability to feed herself and drive her power chair.  She is scared to death and I have no hope to offer. "Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message

news:dDMYd.17211$2s.15539@lakeread06… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please.  Need help.

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Al wrote: > Wife has had MS for a long time with no significant changes, but > over the last few days is losing ability to feed herself and drive > her power chair.  She is scared to death and I have no hope to offer.

Do you have an "ask a nurse" type of service where you are? They’re quite helpful here … you might find out by calling a local hospital. KKT

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"Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message

news:cTNYd.17218$2s.15729@lakeread06… : Wife has had MS for a long time with no significant changes, but over the : last few days is : losing ability to feed herself and drive her power chair.  She is scared to : death and I have : no hope to offer. : : "Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message

: news:dDMYd.17211$2s.15539@lakeread06… : > Please.  Need help. : > : > : : Have you called her doctor yet?  Is (s)he concerned?  What does she say about it?  That she thinks it is the end of being able to cope with it?  Is she afraid of living with it being worse, or of dying?  Is it possible that she has any other problem?  A cold?  Taken more/less medicine?  Allergic reaction to something?  Is she in pain?  Does she tremor?  Or just very weak?  Is her brain working about usual as far as cognitive powers/confusion?  Better or worse or same?  Is she on any drugs for MS or other problems?  I have secondary progressive m.s. so I’ve been through lots of up and downs – and about when I wanted to give up last year, my specialist put me on methotrexate and I have been better every day since. No kidding.  I’m walking, have energy and my brain is functioning so much better. Don’t give up until she’s been on methotrexate.  It will make her nauseous for a while, but it is worth it’s weight in gold (it is actually cheap to buy). We’re here to listen.  We’re all in the same boat.  Tell us what is bothering her the most, and what is bothering you the most and we’ll do anything we can. Rebecca — http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Messianic

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I know how you feel, wanting a help line.  Thank heavens I have my sister. We both have MS and those times you just think you have lost your mind, it is so nice to talk to someone. I would suggest attending local MS meetings, and making a friend who can be your help line.

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Were you walking before methotrexate?  If not, how long were you in a wheelchair? "Mortgage.Author" <drsterl…@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:GrOYd.15977$c72.46@bignews3.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message > news:cTNYd.17218$2s.15729@lakeread06… > : Wife has had MS for a long time with no significant changes, but over the > : last few days is > : losing ability to feed herself and drive her power chair.  She is scared > to > : death and I have > : no hope to offer. > : > : "Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message > : news:dDMYd.17211$2s.15539@lakeread06… > : > Please.  Need help. > : > > : > > : > : > Have you called her doctor yet?  Is (s)he concerned?  What does she say > about it?  That she thinks it is the end of being able to cope with it? Is > she afraid of living with it being worse, or of dying?  Is it possible that > she has any other problem?  A cold?  Taken more/less medicine?  Allergic > reaction to something?  Is she in pain?  Does she tremor?  Or just very > weak?  Is her brain working about usual as far as cognitive > powers/confusion?  Better or worse or same?  Is she on any drugs for MS or > other problems?  I have secondary progressive m.s. so I’ve been through lots > of up and downs – and about when I wanted to give up last year, my > specialist put me on methotrexate and I have been better every day since. > No kidding.  I’m walking, have energy and my brain is functioning so much > better. > Don’t give up until she’s been on methotrexate.  It will make her nauseous > for a while, but it is worth it’s weight in gold (it is actually cheap to > buy). > We’re here to listen.  We’re all in the same boat.  Tell us what is > bothering her the most, and what is bothering you the most and we’ll do > anything we can. > Rebecca > — > http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Messianic

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Al, Don’t give up hope.  You never know with this thing. I remember three years ago when the OT showed my wife a magazine of sipping cups.  She, (my wife), had become quite tri-palegic.  The Occupational Therapist said, "you will need to learn how to do things like brush your teeth…"  Darlene said, "what the hell do you think I have been doing for three days in the hospital?"  Then she showed the woman how to brush your teeth with one hand.  She checked out AMA the next day.  She was furious… Every sone that life throws at us is an opportunity for a victory. And it is just that.  It is a victory. She walked into a hospital years ago and rode out a few weeks later. She says when she got herself on to the toilet, it was a victory;  When she learned how to get a blouse on a hanger, it was a victory. Everything is just a challenge. She needs to find her way to independance.  BELIEVE me, I bleed for you AND her, but she MUST. Most of the "HELP" we have gotten seems to focus on learning to live minimally, (We both have M.S.)  but we are NOT UNABLE.. we are DIS abled…  We have a dream of creating a community where people of varying abilities can achieve anything.  We are not handicapped…  We are handi-capable….

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I can completely appreciate her situation Two years ago I used to put about 7000 miles a year on my power chair.  I recently received a new one which I have only put 1,000 miles in the past year.  We are finalizing the sip and puff controls to drive the chair using my breath as my hands were getting too weak.  I actually prefer the sip and puff these days rather than trying to use the manual controls.  I frequently go over a very popular and crowded bridge using the sidewalk and find it not too hard.  I frequently go downtown Vancouver using the sip and puff controls and am getting quite comfortable with them. These days there are many options including driving the chair by just moving your neck against the headrest. I am now at the point where I need assistance to eat a lot of different foods.  It is impossible for me to use a knife.  While I can use my fingers if food is not messy or stab at things with a fork, it definitely makes a difference in where and what I eat. I live in an extended care facility and have seen many different options available regarding eating.  One of the biggest joys in my life was gourmet food.  I still like to do it, although I need to be willing to accept some help from others more frequently. Chefs in fine restaurants must be asked to prepare the food by cutting it before serving it.  My experience is that chefs will often take this as a challenge and presented the meal in a manner that does not look like it has been precut — in other words a presentation of nine or 10 I have only had MS for 10 years.  This disease is very strange and everyone is different.  Where we have a lot in common is fear in what might happen in the future.  You seem to indicate that she just recently experienced new difficulties that may or may not have a long-term effects.  For me personally, I tend to believe in that old saying "there is nothing worse to fear than fear itself" One thing that keeps me going and makes me feel good is that I believe dignity is something that must be surrendered and cannot be taken away from you.  I really believe that.  I do not feel bad about things that are beyond my control. Having said that, it is not so much a matter of been able to give her hope as it is to make her aware that there is just about always options and choices.  The more that we can control ourselves using these options the easier it is to deal with. The first time I used sip and puff controls to drive my wheelchair, it took great determination to put the fear aside and realize the benefits that I would get.  I now can drive 10 miles using that cruise control features of the sip and puff while I am resting my arms on the full length armrests and using two good seat belts to minimize my movement in the chair (one under my arms and one around my waist). We all have our own demons to deal with.  Hopefully with time and more knowledge (as she proactively searches for solutions to problems before they happen which leaves her some control and choices) she will realize that while her fears are completely normal, reality probably will not be anywhere near as bad as she imagines. I wish you both well and hope this is just a temporary situation.  If it is not, I still find it that bad. Larry Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written using voice recognition software "Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message

news:cTNYd.17218$2s.15729@lakeread06… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wife has had MS for a long time with no significant changes, but over the > last few days is > losing ability to feed herself and drive her power chair.  She is scared > to > death and I have > no hope to offer. > "Al" <codefin…@cox.net> wrote in message > news:dDMYd.17211$2s.15539@lakeread06… >> Please.  Need help.

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I forgot to mention that I live in Vancouver British Columbia Canada where we have a MS Center with physical and occupational therapists who specializes in MS patients.  While it may not be a 24-hour line, I do believe they would make a great effort to try to schedule an appointment as soon as possible (within a week) if significant new developments occur.  The occupational therapists especially can assist with the wheelchair and any options but would have to be able to assess your wife in person rather than over the telephone. What country they live in and is there in MS research center nearby? — Larry Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written using voice recognition software "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca> wrote in message

news:6k3Zd.668010$6l.435505@pd7tw2no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I can completely appreciate her situation

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Larry, as always the depth of your understanding is an inspiration to us all.   You are a man’s man. Tick — — Group: alt.support.mult-sclerosis Date: Sun, Mar 13, 2005, 10:41pm (CST+6) From: white.l…@shaw.ca (white.lynx) I can completely appreciate her situation <clip> *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** Visit Me At Tick’s Place… http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

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Thank you Tick, Just trying to do my best to help others with multiple sclerosis to benefit from my experiences. Why is that every time I think of you, I think of when I used to get six first row over the chutes seats at the Cloverdale rodeo back when they had the chutes across from the main viewing area (late sixties, early seventies) It also brings back memories of one of the first people who was one of my hero’s when I became a conservation officer — I think his name was Kenny MacLean — best all-around cowboy from Okangan Falls in the South Okangan region of British Columbia — I remember he had an endorsement for Tony Lama boots (Ostrich hide was big at the time).  It reminded me very much of the Johnny Cash song — Drunken Ira Hayes — a couple years before he was my hero, but when I met him in the line of duty he was a drunken alcoholic —   first of many life lessons in understanding we are all human — Larry Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written using voice recognition software "GT Tick" <OLT…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:26692-4234DC3D-13@storefull-3176.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Larry, as always the depth of your understanding is an inspiration to us > all. > You are a man’s man. > Tick > — > — > Group: alt.support.mult-sclerosis > Date: Sun, Mar 13, 2005, 10:41pm (CST+6) From: white.l…@shaw.ca > (white.lynx) > I can completely appreciate her situation > <clip> > *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** > Visit Me At Tick’s Place… > http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

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Question:

Hi Heather! I Googled the source (Elissa S. Epel, PhD, UCSF) and found an article which may have provided the literary sound bite in the March 2005 issue of Harper’s Index: ______________________ Study: Stress May Promote Aging of Cells A new study helps to explain how chronic stress can lead to premature aging… From the PNAS: Chronic psychological stress is associated with accelerated shortening of the caps, called telomeres, on the ends of chromosomes in white blood cells — and thus hasten their demise — according to a report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Telomeres promote chromosome stability, Dr. Elissa S. Epel at the University of California, San Francisco, and her colleagues explain. Telomeres shorten with each replication of the cell, and cells cease dividing when telomeres shorten sufficiently. The team investigated the theory that psychological stress affects telomere shortening and thereby contributes to accelerated aging. Their study included 39 healthy, premenopausal women who were primary caregivers for a child with a chronic illness, and 19 age-matched mothers of healthy children who served as a comparison "control" group. Stress was measured with a standardized questionnaire, and telomere length was measured in participants’ blood samples. Within the caregiving group, the longer that a woman had been a caregiver, the shorter was the length of telomeres. In the 14 women with the highest stress scores, telomeres averaged 3,110 units in length; the 14 with the lowest stress had telomeres that averaged 3,660 units. In adults, telomeres shorten by an average of 31 to 63 units per year, so the scientists estimate that the 550-unit shortening in the high-stress group translates to 9 to 17 additional years of aging. These findings may have implications for human health, co-author Dr. Elizabeth H. Blackburn, also at UCSF, told Reuters Health, since telomere shortening is associated with premature death from cardiovascular disease and infections. While the number of years that mothers had been a caregiver did matter, "not all caregivers fell into the high-stress group," she added. "This points to the importance of trying to use stress reduction interventions as much as possible." Dave

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"Dave aka Rex" <Dave_aka_…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:14469-42274E61-115@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net… > Did anyone see that item regarding the effects of stress, specifically > concerning women, in the new Harper’s magazine Index feature?  It > mentioned that living with stress ages women 12 years more than > otherwise. Yikes! > Don’t know what effect stress has on men, but I try to minimize stress > by getting occasional massages, meditating, daily walking, and doing > breathing exercises. Also, I’ve got a massage chair that’s pretty > comfortable. What do you do to combat stress? > Dave

I think the effects of stress like smoking, too much alcohol, drugs, & overeating makes us age more than normal. As for smoking, sometimes I look after people in their eighties with such beautiful skin who are non-smokers. Smoking inhibits the intake of oxygen which has disastrous adverse effects on the body, as I see everyday on the ward. Some doctors reckon up to 20% of health problems are directly related to smoking. I realise it is the most difficult thing in the world to do, but the best way to combat stress is to live a healthy life with plenty of exercise. Oh choosing our parents before we are born helps too—-(-: cheers pugs

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"Dave aka Rex" <Dave_aka_…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:14469-42274E61-115@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net… > Did anyone see that item regarding the effects of stress, specifically > concerning women, in the new Harper’s magazine Index feature?  It > mentioned that living with stress ages women 12 years more than > otherwise. Yikes! > Don’t know what effect stress has on men, but I try to minimize stress > by getting occasional massages, meditating, daily walking, and doing > breathing exercises. Also, I’ve got a massage chair that’s pretty > comfortable. What do you do to combat stress? > Dave

I like to put my music on and  lift weights.  When I’m in my workout room, using the machines and listening to my favorite music, I’m at my most relaxed.  After pumping iron I like to do a yoga like stretching routine. Also, playing with my grandsons relax me.  :)  And petting Gracie too. td – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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meditate.  about 2 hours a day.  4-fold breathing, herbs for relaxation, (passionflower, catnip, scullcap, valerian, etc.) kat "Dave aka Rex" <Dave_aka_…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:14469-42274E61-115@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Did anyone see that item regarding the effects of stress, specifically > concerning women, in the new Harper’s magazine Index feature?  It > mentioned that living with stress ages women 12 years more than > otherwise. Yikes! > Don’t know what effect stress has on men, but I try to minimize stress > by getting occasional massages, meditating, daily walking, and doing > breathing exercises. Also, I’ve got a massage chair that’s pretty > comfortable. What do you do to combat stress? > Dave

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those are good ones–i use music too, and my animals, anything to do with them, always helps calm me. kat "tiny dancer" <tinydan…@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:GiMVd.144$c72.142@bignews3.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Dave aka Rex" <Dave_aka_…@webtv.net> wrote in message > news:14469-42274E61-115@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net… > > Did anyone see that item regarding the effects of stress, specifically > > concerning women, in the new Harper’s magazine Index feature?  It > > mentioned that living with stress ages women 12 years more than > > otherwise. Yikes! > > Don’t know what effect stress has on men, but I try to minimize stress > > by getting occasional massages, meditating, daily walking, and doing > > breathing exercises. Also, I’ve got a massage chair that’s pretty > > comfortable. What do you do to combat stress? > > Dave > I like to put my music on and  lift weights.  When I’m in my workout room, > using the machines and listening to my favorite music, I’m at my most > relaxed.  After pumping iron I like to do a yoga like stretching routine. > Also, playing with my grandsons relax me.  :)  And petting Gracie too. > td

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Did anyone see that item regarding the effects of stress, specifically concerning women, in the new Harper’s magazine Index feature?  It mentioned that living with stress ages women 12 years more than otherwise. Yikes! Don’t know what effect stress has on men, but I try to minimize stress by getting occasional massages, meditating, daily walking, and doing breathing exercises. Also, I’ve got a massage chair that’s pretty comfortable. What do you do to combat stress? Dave

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Hello Dave, First let me thank you for posting some really useful and interesting topics on this list. I am very interested in that article on stress and going to look for it. Interestingly I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who suffers from all kinds of illnesses including severe diabetes and extremely high blood pressure. She was questioning why she would have such serious health problems given the fact that she has always eaten a very health conscious diet, has only smoked minimally in her younger years and rarely ever drinks and then only the occasionally glass of wine. However, she acknowledges that her life has been filled with stress. She raised 5 children (two sets of twins!!!!) literally on her own after her husband abandoned them and put herself through university for a degree in social work while doing it. Over the years her family has had many crises all adding to her stress. As well, she ran a therapeutic group home for over 17 years and I don’t need to tell you how stressful that must have been. After doing some research she came the conclusion that stress has to be one of the primary contributing reasons for her health problems. For myself, having been diagnosed with complex PTSD and recognizing the stress that I have had to live my life with since I was a very young child I wonder as well what my health will be like as I get older. I try to find ways to relax. I walk about two hours a day. I find watching movies a great form of relaxation, as well as listening to music and of course my primary soother is spending time with my dog. Being around people does not relax me in the least so I tend to try to get away from people to recharge my batteries. I think that doctors have not really put enough emphasis on the effects of stress on health and would like to see it talked about more. Thanks again Dave Heather "Dave aka Rex" <Dave_aka_…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:14469-42274E61-115@storefull-3157.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Did anyone see that item regarding the effects of stress, specifically > concerning women, in the new Harper’s magazine Index feature?  It > mentioned that living with stress ages women 12 years more than > otherwise. Yikes! > Don’t know what effect stress has on men, but I try to minimize stress > by getting occasional massages, meditating, daily walking, and doing > breathing exercises. Also, I’ve got a massage chair that’s pretty > comfortable. What do you do to combat stress? > Dave

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