Question:
NeuRose schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This abstract is totally worthless. It can mean anything. They don’t specify a thing. Apparently they researched some research 
) without mentioning I’m going to sound pretty ignorant here, but do I understand correctly that they are saying the tricyclics are better for PAD or other anxiety-related blah blah ? Because my doctor told me specifically that it is the combination of the tricyclic and benzo that achieves the best suppression (this was my experience as well). So far it isn’t working near as well with xanax as it did with the ativan, but that’s another story. 
But the first few days I began the ativan/desipramine combo I was COMPLETELY panic attack free! Man, I wish I could afford to have that ativan again!. Just sharing my experience, please respond to tell me if my understanding of the study was correct–or in other words is desipramine a SSRI? peace and love, NeuRose
Generally, all classes of meds can help. Probably the best results are with MAOI’s which have other disadvantages such as dietary restirctions and also seem to stop working for many after a few years.Benzo’s have a good track record and generally speaking less side effects than other meds. Desipramine is a TCA (a tricyclic). TCA’s like benzo’s are older and well researched meds and they often make a good combo. SSRI’s work more selectively on serotonin and work for many. Side effects generally don’t differ much from TCA side effects. These days many people report unpleasant side effects from SSRI’s, especially long-term effects which earlier weren’t known because they’re relatively new drugs. Paxil and Zoloft are most mentioned here. On the other hand for many people these meda have been life-savers. It is remarkable IMO that many people who don’t do well on TCA’s do better on SSRI’s and the other way round. As TCA’s work on three neurotransmitters (serotonin, norepinehrine and – a little bit – on dopamine) and SSRI’s work in principle selectively on serotonin, this might have something to do with it. It may well be possible that there are several types of PD which can’t be diagnosed properly at the moment as PD is – all progress notwithstanding – still largely *terra incognita* and obviously, so are the effects of meds on it. Benzo’s, for instance, work on GABA and CCK. There is research going on internationally as to the roleof CCK and some pharmaceutical companies are working on the production of meds which are GABA-oriented in a difserent way from benzo’s but these meds are currently being in trials so not much can be said about those as yet. As it is, medication is largely a matter of trial and error. Philip
Response:
Say what result you want from a study and I someone can come up with a protocol that will get you the answer requested. The tobacco manufactures have been doing it for decades. Like, I assume, you I found SSRIs really bad news, however, I know a lot of people who swear by them, everybodies MMV. Ian Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I can’t believe the results posted in this abstract of a study out of the UK!! (can be seen on Medline). I simply can’t understand how they can reach such a conclusion. Based on everything I’ve seen on this board , my own experience, other material I’ve read and people I’ve corresponded with on this topic – to me it seems ludicrous! Can this study have even a grain of truth to it ??? Does anyone agree with the study ??? JR J Clin Psychiatry 1998;59 Suppl 8:39-44 The side effect burden associated with drug treatment of panic disorder. Baldwin DS, Birtwistle J University Department of Psychiatry, Royal South Hants Hospital, Southampton, UK. This article reviews the incidences of side effects in placebo-controlled clinical trials of drug therapy in patients with panic disorder. We performed a MEDLINE search for placebo-controlled studies in panic disorder that reported the incidences of side effects, published in English language, peer-reviewed journals between 1992 and 1997.
snipped
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Say what result you want from a study and I someone can come up with a protocol that will get you the answer requested. The tobacco manufactures have been doing it for decades. Like, I assume, you I found SSRIs really bad news, however, I know a lot of people who swear by them, everybodies MMV. Ian Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet I can’t believe the results posted in this abstract of a study out of the UK!! (can be seen on Medline). I simply can’t understand how they can reach such a conclusion. (snipped) JR J Clin Psychiatry 1998;59 Suppl 8:39-44 The side effect burden associated with drug treatment of panic disorder. Baldwin DS, Birtwistle J University Department of Psychiatry, Royal South Hants Hospital, Southampton, UK. This article reviews the incidences of side effects in placebo-controlled clinical trials of drug therapy in patients with panic disorder. We performed a MEDLINE search for placebo-controlled studies in panic disorder that reported the incidences of side effects, published in English language, peer-reviewed journals between 1992 and 1997. snipped
My body knows the difference between a placebo and SSRIs. SSRIs increase my anxiety, decrease my sex drive, and worsen my agoraphobia. A sugar pill would not do that. Mel
Response:
: : Say what result you want from a study and I someone can come up with : a protocol that will get you the answer requested. The tobacco : manufactures have been doing it for decades. Exactly what I was about to say too!!! As we know from our UK friends, the brittish health establishment is strongly anti-benzo, so I suspect there is much professional and political pressure behind this study. Besides, studies based on studies (so-called meta-studies) are inherently biased and not reliable science IMO. Best Wishes, Arthur
Response:
JR schreef: I can’t believe the results posted in this abstract of a study out of the UK!! (can be seen on Medline). I simply can’t understand how they can reach such a conclusion. Based on everything I’ve seen on this board , my own experience, other material I’ve read and people I’ve corresponded with on this topic – to me it seems ludicrous! Can this study have even a grain of truth to it ??? Does anyone agree with the study ???
This abstract is totally worthless. It can mean anything. They don’t specify a thing. Apparently they researched some research ) without mentioning under what circunstances that research was done. Etc, etc. So it has become some sort of random meta-research the parameters of which are not clear at all. This one is for the dustbin. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JR J Clin Psychiatry 1998;59 Suppl 8:39-44 The side effect burden associated with drug treatment of panic disorder. Baldwin DS, Birtwistle J University Department of Psychiatry, Royal South Hants Hospital, Southampton, UK. This article reviews the incidences of side effects in placebo-controlled clinical trials of drug therapy in patients with panic disorder. We performed a MEDLINE search for placebo-controlled studies in panic disorder that reported the incidences of side effects, published in English language, peer-reviewed journals between 1992 and 1997. We discuss the side effects experienced by patients receiving tricyclic antidepressants, serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors, and benzodiazepines, the drug classes most commonly prescribed for the treatment of panic disorder. Available evidence suggests that, with respect to tolerability, serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors are the most favorable treatment choice for patients with panic disorder. Publication Types: Review Review, tutorial PMID: 9707161, UI: 98370658
Response:
NeuRose schreef: It is remarkable IMO that many people who don’t do well on TCA’s do better on SSRI’s and the other way round. snip As it is, medication is largely a matter of trial and error. Philip
You know Philip, I think you’re onto something. Maybe some kinds of disorders need the anti-adrenaline and some need the seratonin thingy….Very interesting–maybe introducing a third factor-W/ or w/o PTSD, maybe? That is what I have also. Thanks for all the info Philip and clearing up a question I was too chicken to ask earlier! peace, NeuRose
Response:
This abstract is totally worthless. It can mean anything. They don’t specify a thing. Apparently they researched some research ) without mentioning
I’m going to sound pretty ignorant here, but do I understand correctly that they are saying the tricyclics are better for PAD or other anxiety-related blah blah ? Because my doctor told me specifically that it is the combination of the tricyclic and benzo that achieves the best suppression (this was my experience as well). So far it isn’t working near as well with xanax as it did with the ativan, but that’s another story. But the first few days I began the ativan/desipramine combo I was COMPLETELY panic attack free! Man, I wish I could afford to have that ativan again!. Just sharing my experience, please respond to tell me if my understanding of the study was correct–or in other words is desipramine a SSRI? peace and love, NeuRose
Response:
I can’t believe the results posted in this abstract of a study out of the UK!! (can be seen on Medline). I simply can’t understand how they can reach such a conclusion. Based on everything I’ve seen on this board , my own experience, other material I’ve read and people I’ve corresponded with on this topic – to me it seems ludicrous! Can this study have even a grain of truth to it ??? Does anyone agree with the study ??? JR J Clin Psychiatry 1998;59 Suppl 8:39-44 The side effect burden associated with drug treatment of panic disorder. Baldwin DS, Birtwistle J University Department of Psychiatry, Royal South Hants Hospital, Southampton, UK. This article reviews the incidences of side effects in placebo-controlled clinical trials of drug therapy in patients with panic disorder. We performed a MEDLINE search for placebo-controlled studies in panic disorder that reported the incidences of side effects, published in English language, peer-reviewed journals between 1992 and 1997. We discuss the side effects experienced by patients receiving tricyclic antidepressants, serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors, and benzodiazepines, the drug classes most commonly prescribed for the treatment of panic disorder. Available evidence suggests that, with respect to tolerability, serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors are the most favorable treatment choice for patients with panic disorder. Publication Types: Review Review, tutorial PMID: 9707161, UI: 98370658
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