Question:
| This whole thing kinda smells like "the red scare"/"McCarthyism". Alright look. Here’s what I said: I don’t like the fact that there are people sending fake messages on here. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything else you *think* I said, is the product of your own fertile imagination. If there’s something wrong with expressing an opinion, no matter how much of an obviosity it may be, then convict me and execute me all you damned please. If you’re gonna be completely ridiculous and compare my opinion to McCarthyism, then leave me out of it because you’re no longer talking about anything that has to do with me. | Good Lord, may we not allow such a thing to happen here! That’s it. Make me public enemy number one. As though the miswording of my original post and the reactionary rantings of dozens of people hadn’t done that already, or nearly so.
Response:
I could go through and write the thing over as though Im not talking back to glens fab post, or to glen, but heck, this is what worked for me. You could take this as written to the "energies present in the posts" and not specifically think of glen malley as the one I speak to. Lord knows I never met the man, nor does he speak to me. Its not a relationship, I guess, but I act as though it is. Kinda like letters to god or dead people or trees. Basically what I’d have to say is that the fad post was motivated by fear and anger and has in turn produced fear and anger. The idea behind it was to let " those fakers" know " Im onto you." Well, whats the motivation behind *that*? In my case, when I have felt this way, I felt like somebody was trying to fool me and laugh at me, and it made me mad. One thing I can say is that if you pour ketchup on your head and lie at the bottom of the stairs and moan, I’m not an idiot for rushing to your aid. Im just not. Its not a dopey reaction, and if the ketchupheaded person got up and pointed and heehawed I wouldnt take it as a fault in me, that my perceptions are off. I guess I would be mad that somebody wasted my adrenal glands on their sense of humor, cause my adrenal glands are overexcersised as is. The other thing is that I cannot know who here is "really" DD or not and that to me it doesnt matter at *all*. I think it was deag who pointed out initially that noone here cares about whether or not you are actually definably DD or MP, that thats not what this group is about. My stepmother frinstance is not dd, yet she occasionally uses babytalk, and hey everybodys got inner children, and I dont get upset when ppl use that simple emotional language/perspective of childhood to talk about whats bothering them or express their feelings generally. It can be a powerful way to get at truth. Many people mock young ( or old ) lovers who babytalk their feelings to each other, yet it sure seems to work for them, no matter if you feel embarrased or not. My thinking is that its possible that at one point or another someone who is not medically ill from a malfunctioning mpd tendency ( remember mp isnt a malfunction, its just a different way of being ) may try to figure out the distinction by allowing their inner selves to speak here, and maybe its more therapuetic concept than *alter* but whatever, yknow. I dont mind. Thats cool. No, it is. Like they say its a continuum, and trying on different personas is on the mild edge of the dissociative continuum and it is not *wrong* or *weird* or *fake* to play with that here. I think its been said somewhere or at least generally expressed that the idea is not to bust ppl for not being whatever we expect or want or need, but to encourage them to be whatever is most satisfying and true to *their* wants or needs. That being said, I seriously doubt that almost any poster is pulling our legs and if he was, what business is it of mine? If I allow them to be who they say they are, how does that make *me* a fool? Speaking for myself, one of the things that really bogged me down in the first *year* of posting here is that somebody might accuse Munks of being fake or contrived. She and I both have been accused of that all our lives and its hurt us tremendously. I spent a lot of time intially supervising what she wrote and trying to force her to be as "authentically childlike" as possible. And for what? How has that helped me? How do I owe you that? Why cant she just be herself, why cant we be ourselves in this place? She’s *not* "authentically childlike" and to be honest I dont think anyone in this system ever was. We never got a *chance* to be our own age or self. When I was 13 my parents ripped up my comic collection because I might be exposed to smut, when Id been exposed to much more smut from their lips. Now that Im 26 you want to keep me from being a child when I have never been one? Do you see how your paranoia has hurt me and encouraged my own paranoia? Why on earth did you indulge it? Why was it better to hurt most of the "real" people in order to hurt the "fake" ones? Why did you say so many viciously negative things in order to promote positive results? What is your motivation for inspecting everyone for "realness" and then prounouncing certain people as "lacking realness". You say you dont care if Im hurt and then you say you are protecting me from those who (presumably) dont care if I’m hurt. Can you see how absolutely crazymaking that is? Why haven’t you taken responsibility for the hurt you have caused? Why doesnt it matter? Why is your agenda ( to not be laughed at? ) more important than other peoples pain? Well thats it for now. Maybe it’ll become a series of epic poems. I could try for iambic pentameter…thats what eight beats or something? Is this what they call existentialism? The eternal why? Presently at peace, Nation of Jackie " The most important thing is not solving the problem, it’s assigning blame." — a sarcastic Munkatunks, Christmas 1994
Response:
| | Basically what I’d have to say is that the fad post was motivated by | fear and anger and has in turn produced fear and anger. It wasn’t motivated by fear and anger. It was motivated by frustration. It was a simple complaint. Nothing more. Whatever you choose to read into it is a product of your own creativity, not my own. | The idea behind it was to let " those fakers" know " Im onto you." | Well, whats the motivation behind *that*? No. I truly wish SOMEONE would pay attention to what I’m saying. The idea behind it was to air my personal opinion of people who lie in this newsgroup. I wasn’t talking about people who claim to have DID or mpd in real life. I was talking about people who claim it on usenet only, just so they can lead someone on for a sadistic joke. | Im just not. Its not a dopey reaction, and if the ketchupheaded person | got up and pointed and heehawed I wouldnt take it as a fault in me, | that my perceptions are off. I guess I would be mad that somebody | wasted my adrenal glands on their sense of humor, cause my adrenal | glands are overexcersised as is. So is it wrong for me to not like the idea of someone pouring ketchup on their heads and lying at the foot of the stairs? That’s all I said in my post. Simply that I didn’t like it. | The other thing is that I cannot know who here is "really" DD or not | and that to me it doesnt matter at *all*. I think it was deag who | pointed out initially that noone here cares about whether or not you | are actually definably DD or MP, that thats not what this group is | about. My stepmother frinstance is not dd, yet she occasionally uses | babytalk, and hey everybodys got inner children, and I dont get upset | when ppl use that simple emotional language/perspective of childhood | to talk about whats bothering them or express their feelings | generally. It can be a powerful way to get at truth. Many people mock | young ( or old ) lovers who babytalk their feelings to each other, yet | it sure seems to work for them, no matter if you feel embarrased or | not. My thinking is that its possible that at one point or another | someone who is not medically ill from a malfunctioning mpd tendency ( | remember mp isnt a malfunction, its just a different way of being ) | may try to figure out the distinction by allowing their inner selves | to speak here, and maybe its more therapuetic concept than *alter* but | whatever, yknow. I dont mind. Thats cool. No, it is. Like they say its | a continuum, and trying on different personas is on the mild edge of | the dissociative continuum and it is not *wrong* or *weird* or *fake* | to play with that here. I think its been said somewhere or at least | generally expressed that the idea is not to bust ppl for not being | whatever we expect or want or need, but to encourage them to be | whatever is most satisfying and true to *their* wants or needs. *sigh* Again. I wasn’t talking about people who are posting with sincerity. Regardless of their topic…. | Do you see how your paranoia has hurt me and encouraged my own | paranoia? Why on earth did you indulge it? Why was it better to hurt | most of the "real" people in order to hurt the "fake" ones? Why did | you say so many viciously negative things in order to promote positive | results? What is your motivation for inspecting everyone for | "realness" and then prounouncing certain people as "lacking realness". I simply expressed an opinion. It’s pretty obvious by now that it was worded stupidly, but it remains an opinion and nothing more or less. | You say you dont care if Im hurt and then you say you are protecting | me from those who (presumably) dont care if I’m hurt. Can you see how | absolutely crazymaking that is? Why haven’t you taken responsibility | for the hurt you have caused? Why doesnt it matter? Why is your agenda | ( to not be laughed at? ) more important than other peoples pain? If I said I was protecting anyone, then I was obviously wording myself incorrectly. I don’t claim that my post was worded correctly. However, to lynch me for that fact seems a little reactionary.
Response:
No. I truly wish SOMEONE would pay attention to what I’m saying.
I am. And I also want you to pay attention to what I’m about to say. Deal? I simply expressed an opinion. It’s pretty obvious by now that it was worded stupidly, but it remains an opinion and nothing more or less.
I -personally- would not use the word stupid to describe your post. Although if you are comfortable with that adjective, it’s cool with me. I lean more toward "without forethought to how it might effect others" or "not understanding the reason for using a spoiler" or "stating your own opinion without taking into account issues that many have about the use of the English word ‘liar’(amoungst other things)." However, to lynch me for that fact seems a little reactionary.
As I read through each of your replies to this thread, I noticed something rather important. In each of the replies, you express shock that people have not or did not understand what you had been trying to say. You stated a number of times that they missed your point. Sit on that for a moment. Now, I personally found your own original post to be nothing more than reactionary to some things you, yourself, had been reading and some things that, for what ever reason, irritated you to the point that you felt you need to speak out about it. One thing should be clear. This is a reactionary place. Someone posts, other react. Action – Reaction. You did the exact same. You read, you reacted. What I’m confused about is that you don’t see the -way- you reacted as being ill thought out. And even if you acknowledging that you DO see it as being ill thought out, I’ve not seen you apologize to anyone at all for any harm that has been caused. All you seem to be saying now is that you have a right to your opinion and have a right to post that opinion. But what about decency? I am not asking you to subscribe to my own set of morals, but I’m certain you must live by your set and I’m curious as to whether decency has a place there. Or even simply enough, the ability to say not only I was wrong about this or that but also, "I’m sorry if I’ve caused any harm." If you did apologize, please forgive me, as I did not see it. No one here wants to squelch any one else’s right to talk about whatever it is they need to talk about; however, it is appropriate and also just plain common decency to think about the fact that what you may have to say could do genuine harm to those who will be reading it. And so then, attach a spoiler giving clear warning about what you wish to speak of. If this was a NG about ‘Systems of belief in Pottery Kiln’s" who would even care that you called anyone a liar or fake. But the point is, this is not that type of NG. As obviously you are well aware. You even wrote (more or less) that you "do" understand what it is to be a survivor. It doesn’t puzzle me that you would be unclear about the term ‘boundaries’, and how it applies to this entire thread, but what does puzzle me is that you would be surprised that so many people here have been so negatively affected by your initial post as well as your follow ups, regardless of whether they are DID/MP/PTSD or completely without troubles. All that said, I do see in some ways how you could feel invalidated by what others may say or do in any given arena. But I do feel it was more than reciprocated in like and my hope is that you can move on from here toward taking care of yourself and focusing more on dealing with what in ‘particular’ (not in generalities) triggered you here on this newsgroup. deag — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:
Response:
Ooo-ooo-ooo! I can’t help myself! I want to respond to Glen too! (Alright… I’m being impulsive. And I haven’t read *all* of the postings related to this topic yet.) Glen, My belief is that your allegation that there are numerous false postings to this newsgroup is simply mistaken. My belief is that there haven’t been any, or hardly any, liars on this newsgroup making up stories just to get attention. My belief is that all, or virtually all, of the posts here are written by people expressing their own real truths. If I’m not mistaken, you have suggested that posts that are written in a child-like style are just made up. My belief is that they are not. My belief is that they are genuine. You have mistakenly accused people who have written in a child-like style of being liars. You have no real basis or proof for that accusation, by the way. If I’m not mistaken, you have suggested that posts that are written in a so-called "melodramatic" style are just made up. My belief is that they are not. My belief is that they are genuine. You have mistakenly accused people who have written in a so-called "melodramatic" style of being liars. You have no real basis or proof for that accusation, by the way. In fact I conclude, from the responses that I read, that nearly *everybody* who posts to this newsgroup, with the one notable exception of *you*, believes that these posts are genuine (because they respond to them genuinely). If I’m not mistaken, you stated that any reasonable person could see that these posts are trolls. You have thus just accused all of us who do not believe they are trolls of being unreasonable people. How is it that you alone could see a something which so many of us cannot see? I don’t think that’s the case. I instead believe that most people here are accurately perceiving posts as genuine, and you are simply mistaken in your perception that many of them are being made up. This may mean that you will need to open your mind to new possibilities and accept the realities of the experiences of the people who post here. As a completely separate issue, you may be correct that there have been instances in which someone new who posted a simple question may not always have been responded to, when someone who expressed a more desperate need is more likely to responded to. But that has nothing to do with liars and trolls. Disclaimer: I get to this newsgroup every few days, but I’m generally not able to read every single message. I will make an effort to stay current with this thread, and respond as appropriate. Please post any replies to this newsgroup. Please do not reply to me via email. Thank you. – Phil R.
Response:
writes: That’s it. Make me public enemy number one. As though the miswording of my original post and the reactionary rantings of dozens of people hadn’t done that already, or nearly so.
I tink you should re-read your own letter! And in *MY* book you are listed as public enemy #1! If you just go away that would be *fine* with me. However, if you have a *problem* you would like to *discuss* then by all mean Sir, go right ahead….as you abviously do have a *problem*! Lots of Light! Changes etc.. When the world is upside down, Stand on your head!
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