Question:
No, I don’t want to get into a debate with anyone. But I am angry that a certain person has returned to the group. In June 2002 he was posting abusive emails to people. For those of you who don’t know K was actually charged for harassing and threatening someone on this newsgroup. He would call her relentlessly and even her children were in fear. It hasn’t been long enough for K to have changed. I don’t even believe he has been in the DBT for as long he claims. He would have to have started right in June to be 8 months through a ten month program. Sure, he has a PDOC but no mention of a therapist. And of course I don’t I can ever forget certain posts from Kevin out of my mind like the ones he posted on some sex related newsgroup where he was looking for someone who would have sex with him and mutilate his feet! I’m angry because he has no right to be here. I can’t do this. I can’t be here if he is going to be poking his sociopathic face all over the group. And it’s not fair! It’s just not fair! I am not going to wait around for one of his dramas to unfold online. And believe me, sooner or later it will. This much I know is true. One angry Mouse! — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:
Response:
Yeah, I’m angry too. Thanks for saying that Mouse! I took a risk to let people know that their assumptions that Kevin may not be as reformed as he claims are probably correct, and now, I just received a call from the Madison Police Department that he contacted to file charges against me that I am harassing him.
Yes, I have done that. I don’t know what will result, but you shared personal information about me that you heard from the DSG. One of the cardinal rules of that group is confidentiality, and that information should stay only in the group. As far as the police are concerned, I am happy to share *all* information with them. If anyone wants to back me up, I may need it. He has now black balled me from the live depression group, not that I have been going that much lately anyway, just so I don’t have to face him.
Yeah right. Nice "invention" when you say just so you don’t have to face me. You responded positively when I said I’d still like to be friends, and you even asked me for computer help — for me to come over and help you get hooked up. I could share many things about you Jen that I have learned, but I don’t violate others’ confidentiality. One of the facilitators is his girlfriend and the other one is a man he helped a lot last year who was recovering from surgery-I know neither of them will back me up.
Maybe we should ask the entire group what they think. The most important rule of that group is not sharing what is said in the group outside of the group. You broke that rule, and you should take responsibility for it. Kevin can be a very caring person,
Thank you — I am a very caring person. I made the effort to remain friends with you. I’ve listened to you on the phone. I was hoping to have a friendship with you again. but he needs to get a clue that he is not wanted here in any, way, shape or form, and he needs to leave.
I will continue to post supportively and positively. Kevin
Response:
One of the cardinal rules of that group is confidentiality, and that information should stay only in the group.
yes but it isn’t illegal to share info. the only way that would be illegal is if the person in question was a health professional treating you. the other group members are under no obligation to preserve your confidentiality. you wouldn’t need to worry if you were actually honest. better luck next time.
Response:
right there with you mouse. the self injury thing is alive and well-the only reason he’d have for coming back here. you have every right to be angry and share it-although i’m not sure the sociopaths really want to include him in their group =) even they have standards.
Response:
jen, i forwarded to you the name of the police officer who dealt with kevin last year. just call her and let her know he’s out of his cage again. he tried that same crap with people here i.e. filing complaints and it never came to anything. i wouldn’t worry. they know the "real" kevin.
Response:
((((((((((((Mouse))))))))) No debate, i support you. Love and hugs, Fi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I don’t want to get into a debate with anyone. But I am angry that a certain person has returned to the group. In June 2002 he was posting abusive emails to people. For those of you who don’t know K was actually charged for harassing and threatening someone on this newsgroup. He would call her relentlessly and even her children were in fear. It hasn’t been long enough for K to have changed. I don’t even believe he has been in the DBT for as long he claims. He would have to have started right in June to be 8 months through a ten month program. Sure, he has a PDOC but no mention of a therapist. And of course I don’t I can ever forget certain posts from Kevin out of my mind like the ones he posted on some sex related newsgroup where he was looking for someone who would have sex with him and mutilate his feet! I’m angry because he has no right to be here. I can’t do this. I can’t be here if he is going to be poking his sociopathic face all over the group. And it’s not fair! It’s just not fair! I am not going to wait around for one of his dramas to unfold online. And believe me, sooner or later it will. This much I know is true. One angry Mouse! — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:
Response:
My, the newsgroup is awfully busy – for a change. Well, here goes…. Well, I’m angry too. I’m angry that yet again people are PERMITTING nay, FACILITATING a certain person’s dominance of the group. I’m angry that people who have genuine needs are being bypassed for the sake of this issue. I’m angry that people only seem to show up when this certain person is back in town. Yes, I’m angry all right. Very bloody angry (excuse the French) but not for the same reasons most other people seem to be. — ‘The ego has landed’ At this point you’re supposed to say: ‘No it hasn’t, but I can see it approaching the runway’.
Response:
tonight and have read very many messages and replied to same. But yes, i agree with you, And yes i also am ‘guilty as charged’. Sadly, as i know too well that this is not the m.o. of this ng. I’m very intermittent here, i know and admit that, and don’t really know how to excuse it really. I’m intermittent IRL as well, i guess. I isolate, come out, isolate, come out. Depends on eating/size/shape/how prepared or hidden i am to ‘appear’. and on top of that is practical stuff like work and children and being basically too knackered to move, never mind read/post. Excuses. I know. No apols. Don’t WANT to apologise for basic facts of life, for once in my life. But yes, i DO want to apologise, i’ve been long-time absent and i know it, and i regret it. I’m just not so reliable for instant responses i guess. Check in erratically. Mostly i respond to UK people, but not exclusively. But sheerly because things that K did affected people very dear to me, i DO feel the need to sometimes respond. He HURT and FRIGHTENED TO DEATH people i know and love VERY deeply, and i CAN’T stand back from that. I do have my own opinions and try to keep an open mind as to his progress, but all the same, i remain just fearful for his actions if he’s ‘triggered’. Given what went before. I’m basically just frightened for anyone who has had any sort of identifiable personal contact with him. And i want to reinforce that here. I KNOW it seems like such an ‘artificial’ way of posting, but at the same time it IS real, these threats ARE real. They’ve been voiced in the past and there’s no way of knowing that the same won’t happen again. YUP i agree with you wholeheartedly on one person dominating etc etc etc. AND i know that i ‘m certainly a person who posts erratically. I DON’T want to give K the benefit of X number of posts to his name, but by the same token i DO want to add my voice in there, saying that he HAS hurt and SERIOUSLY SCARED SO many people. JUST so people here are aware. At the same time i DO have faith that he is taking steps to recover, but for me, it is WAY to early for him to be returning here. Give it 5 or 10 years and then maybe. remaining here, and me checking in etc – occasionally – ……over time i feel that tiny bit more connected to you. Anyway. Oh, and btw, i now have 2 _gorgeous_ little kitties, from a very dear friend of mine, that my boys (8 and 5). Anyway, end of a long post, but really i agree with you, but on the other hand it NEEDS to be said. He’s hurt too many people and needs to be ‘red-flagged’ here in some way. And if that takes many posts, YES that’s very sad, but it still needs to be done to protect anyone new here. (((((((((Marie)))))))) Fi XXX
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My, the newsgroup is awfully busy – for a change. Well, here goes…. Well, I’m angry too. I’m angry that yet again people are PERMITTING nay, FACILITATING a certain person’s dominance of the group. I’m angry that people who have genuine needs are being bypassed for the sake of this issue. I’m angry that people only seem to show up when this certain person is back in town. Yes, I’m angry all right. Very bloody angry (excuse the French) but not for the same reasons most other people seem to be. — ‘The ego has landed’ At this point you’re supposed to say: ‘No it hasn’t, but I can see it approaching the runway’.
Response:
Mouse, some of your dramas have unfolded here, such as a few posts implying that you were going to commit suicide. For one of those posts, I spent hours trying to contact the police in your area so that you would get help and would be safe. I have been in DBT since around May. I’ve stated before in posts that I have a new therapist. I am no longer interested in the sex-related things. I don’t want to be hurt, I want to be loved. The wanting to be hurt arose out of self-injury. Almost all of us have secrets or reasons for becoming as we are (bulimic, anorexic). To judge someone else is hypocritical. I am not "sociopathic". I am a person recovering from depression, panic disorder with agorophobia, PTSD, alcohol in remission (over 2 years now), self-injury, and bulimia. I am proud of my progress, and behaviors that showed themselves during a short period of my life when going through an emotional breakdown do not lead to someone being "sociopathic". It’s a pretty common insult though, so I can understand why you chose to use it. No dramas will unfold online. I was a supportive member of this group for 6-7 years, and I plan to be one again. The proof will be in the pudding. Kevin P.S. — and I’m sure you go through your "dramas" too, if the past is any indication. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I don’t want to get into a debate with anyone. But I am angry that a certain person has returned to the group. In June 2002 he was posting abusive emails to people. For those of you who don’t know K was actually charged for harassing and threatening someone on this newsgroup. He would call her relentlessly and even her children were in fear. It hasn’t been long enough for K to have changed. I don’t even believe he has been in the DBT for as long he claims. He would have to have started right in June to be 8 months through a ten month program. Sure, he has a PDOC but no mention of a therapist. And of course I don’t I can ever forget certain posts from Kevin out of my mind like the ones he posted on some sex related newsgroup where he was looking for someone who would have sex with him and mutilate his feet! I’m angry because he has no right to be here. I can’t do this. I can’t be here if he is going to be poking his sociopathic face all over the group. And it’s not fair! It’s just not fair! I am not going to wait around for one of his dramas to unfold online. And believe me, sooner or later it will. This much I know is true. One angry Mouse!
Response:
Yeah, I’m angry too. Thanks for saying that Mouse! I took a risk to let people know that their assumptions that Kevin may not be as reformed as he claims are probably correct, and now, I just received a call from the Madison Police Department that he contacted to file charges against me that I am harassing him. If anyone wants to back me up, I may need it. He has now black balled me from the live depression group, not that I have been going that much lately anyway, just so I don’t have to face him. One of the facilitators is his girlfriend and the other one is a man he helped a lot last year who was recovering from surgery-I know neither of them will back me up. Kevin can be a very caring person, but he needs to get a clue that he is not wanted here in any, way, shape or form, and he needs to leave.
Response:
(snipped) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m just not so reliable for instant responses i guess. Check in erratically. Mostly i respond to UK people, but not exclusively. But sheerly because things that K did affected people very dear to me, i DO feel the need to sometimes respond. He HURT and FRIGHTENED TO DEATH people i know and love VERY deeply, and i CAN’T stand back from that. I do have my own opinions and try to keep an open mind as to his progress, but all the same, i remain just fearful for his actions if he’s ‘triggered’. Given what went before. I’m basically just frightened for anyone who has had any sort of identifiable personal contact with him. And i want to reinforce that here. I KNOW it seems like such an ‘artificial’ way of posting, but at the same time it IS real, these threats ARE real. They’ve been voiced in the past and there’s no way of knowing that the same won’t happen again.
And if you check out the archives you”ll see that I condemned him unreservedly for that. Try googling ‘Marie + Kevin + inconsistency’ or ‘Marie + Kevin + hurt’. I am concerned that a certain person is, as my mother would put it, (all my relatives are being dragged out of the wardrobe tonight) ‘getting off on this whole thing’. Surely a better way of dealing with this is to get together a google archive annd simply direct people to that. Someone wrote a neat summary of the whole situation. I’ll try and locate it on Google. remaining here, and me checking in etc – occasionally – ……over time i feel that tiny bit more connected to you. Anyway. Oh, and btw, i now have 2 _gorgeous_ little kitties, from a very dear friend of mine, that my my boys (8 and 5).
That’s wunderbar, as the Germans would say. Tyson and Fluffy eh. Do they live up to their names? I am looking after two kitties whose owner is away Their names are Kitty (how original) and Merlin. I’ve noticed that when I feed them Merlin (the little boy) stands aside to let Kitty (the little girl) have the first few morsels. What a gentleman cat. My neighbour is more cynical about it and says that Kitty is just a bully cat. Hugs and cyberkittytoys to you. — ‘The ego has landed’ At this point you’re supposed to say: ‘No it hasn’t, but I can see it approaching the runway’.
Response:
It would be delightful to hear more from you. I miss you and I’m sure lots of other people do too. Hugs and Purrs ‘rie — ‘The ego has landed’ At this point you’re supposed to say: ‘No it hasn’t, but I can see it approaching the runway’.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m angry that people only seem to show up when this certain person is back in town. For me, it is coincidence, I usually check on this group about once a month, and started posting when I found out Dana and Emily were to be married. Usually every month when I check in, very few people have posted. Here is hoping we can find other reasons to carry on here. I apologize Marie. Adagio
Response:
I’m angry that people only seem to show up when this certain person is back in town.
we all go missing in action at times including you. if there was a posting requirement, none of us would be here. i know it’s hard when we aren’t always the center of attention but think of it as a coping skill builder.
Response:
Perhaps not. But couldn’t it set a rather disturbing precedent?
no more disturbing than listening to someone wax and wane about being suicidal all the time and unable to handle the stress of school so he is resorting to self injury to cope only to sign on here and read his update about how well he is doing. at that point you’d need waders because the shit was getting so deep.
Response:
I support you too ((((((((((Mousie))))))))) always…. You are couageous, i love you! Cilaxoxoo
Response:
One of the cardinal rules of that group is confidentiality, and that information should stay only in the group. yes but it isn’t illegal to share info. the only way that would be illegal is if the person in question was a health professional treating you. the other group members are under no obligation to preserve your confidentiality.
Perhaps not. But couldn’t it set a rather disturbing precedent? — ‘The ego has landed’ At this point you’re supposed to say: ‘No it hasn’t, but I can see it approaching the runway’.
Response:
I’m angry that people only seem to show up when this certain person is back in town. we all go missing in action at times including you. if there was a posting requirement, none of us would be here. i know it’s hard when we aren’t always the center of attention but think of it as a coping skill builder.
well, I’m disapppointed that you would think that of me but <shrug as my grandmother would have said there’s nowt I can do about that. However, I do believe that a certain person is simply revelling in the ‘a’ word. Oscar Wilde put it rather well: ‘There’s only one thing worse than being talked about and that’s not being talked about.’ Wise man was old Oscar! Perhaps you would be the person best qualified to put together a dossier on this individual. Just don’t do what the British government did and plagiarise it from some online graduate thesis 
. In the meantime here’s a song for everyone: nothing ever happens Post office clerks put up signs saying position closed And secretaries turn off typewriters and put on their coats Janitors padlock the gates For security guards to patrol And bachelors phone up their friends for a drink While the married ones turn on a chat show And they’ll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow Gentlemen time please you know we can’t serve any more Now the traffic lights change to stop when there’s nothing to go And by nine o’clock everything’s dead And every third car is a cab And ignorant people sleep in their beds Like the doped white mice in the college lab Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song And we all sing along like before And we’ll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow Telephone exchanges click while there’s nobody there The Martians could land in the carpark and no one would care Close-circuit camaras in department stores Show the same movie every day And the stars of this film neither die nor get killed Just survive constant action replay Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song And we all sing along like before And we’ll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow Bill hoardings advertise products that nobody needs While angry from Manchester writes to complain about All the repeats on TV And computer terminals report some gains In the value of copper and tin While American businessmen snap up Van Goghs For the price of a hospital wing Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song And we all sing along like before And nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song And we’ll all go along like before And we’ll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow. del Amitri *Waking Hours* — ‘The ego has landed’ At this point you’re supposed to say: ‘No it hasn’t, but I can see it approaching the runway’.
Response:
One of the facilitators is his girlfriend and the other one is a man he helped a lot last year who was recovering from surgery-I know neither of them will back me up. Maybe we should ask the entire group what they think. The most important rule of that group is not sharing what is said in the group outside of the group. You broke that rule, and you should take responsibility for it.
Isn’t another cardnial rule not to screw around with the facilitator? Talk about crossing bounderies. So how have you changed? You crossed boundaries before and you’re crossing them again. Jen, you should not be in that group. The facilitator is obviously not trained properly if she’s dating a memeber of a group she’s leading. Zoe
Response:
Mouse wrote No, I don’t want to get into a debate with anyone. But I am angry that a certain person has returned to the group. One angry Mouse!
<<<<<<<Mouse You have every right to feel angry. You need to killfile him. I don’t remember if it was you who posted the scorpian and the frog tale but I will as my 2 cents in this post. If that was posted a month ago, I would have replied "no, people can change, I know they can" but this past month I learned that no matter how much people claim they’ve changed, be weary. A few months is not a long enough period of time. In my lesson learned about people claiming they’ve changed (it was not ed related), it hurts so deeply. But it was an important lesson I finally learned, I’m no longer believe someone because I want to believe them, I believe it when I see it. I could go on but will end it here. Don’t be an angry mouse, be a mouse with an ISP with a killfile option. Zoe
Response:
I hear you, Mouse….and I understand. I empathize. I agree. I also hear where Marie’s coming from, too….it IS interesting that people have suddenly reappeared out of the woodwork….. I realize that coincidences do happen and that the timing on this just happened to work out this way for a couple of people, but yes, it is intriguing how a situation, especially one which is likely to be controversial, can bring lurkers out and result in a lot of posts…. It IS unfortunate that suddenly a lot of attention is being focused on one person. It’s negative attention for the most part, but attention nonetheless. That’s not a healthy situation for any of us, either the person who is being challenged and/or discussed, or the rest of us. However, due to the history between this particular person and the newsgroup as a whole, especially during one volatile time period, well, yes, unfortunately it seems to be necessary that something be said now, that people be able to express their concerns at his reappearance among us, etc. There was significant damage done during that particular time period, and while he seems to think that prior to this time that he was a wonderfully supportive participant on the newsgroup, and that this will offset the other…. well, the evidence points to something quite different, as I’ve mentioned in another post. Certainly not very much time has passed since the incidents which have caused so many people so much pain. Why would anyone expect to be able to brush that aside now, sweep it under the rug and talk about moving on? Sorry, life doesn’t work that way. While killfiling is an answer in one regard, unfortunately that is not the best solution in this situation because first of all, many times people quote others’ posts and so those who don’t want to see Kevin’s words would still see them, either bits and pieces or his posts in their entirety. Aside from that there is the problem of newcomers not being alerted to the potential hazards in communication with Kevin, particularly in email. True, what he did may never happen again….but we can’t be sure of that, any more than he can. He may assure everyone that he’s in a different place now, etc., etc., but we can’t guarantee, nor can he, nor can his current treatment team, that this wouldn’t happen again. And therein lies the danger…. Occasionally he can be objective and helpful without switching things around to himself and his own issues, too, as in his responses to my inquiries about certain treatment programs. I read the information and thanked him for his responses, which is only polite, after all, just as I thanked others who responded…. but for me, with Kevin, that’s as far as it goes. My acceptance and acknowledgement of the responses in this one situation or my comments about his changed sig file (it was refreshing not to see that old "trusting the process" crap again) does NOT imply anything further. It is not a global acceptance of what he has done in the past, and I hope that no one, especially Kevin himself, misinterprets this as such. I have the feeling, though, that this disclaimer is necessary…. What we’ve seen from Jennifer, someone who knows Kevin in "real life," who has interacted with him in a support group situation, clearly suggests that he is not as healthy, as "reformed" or stable as he is presenting himself here. However, many people have already expressed doubts anyway….We all need to heed our own gut-level instincts, pay attention to what is being said and by whom and in what way…. No easy answers here except for the obvious one: that Kevin simply refrain from posting on ASED. I am sure that he’s been lurking for the time that we haven’t seen any posts and I’m sure that he will continue to do so…..and unfortunately there’s no good way to prevent that. He has pretty much destroyed himself as far as ASED is concerned. Perhaps he could attempt to find online support elsewhere, if he hasn’t already. Thing is, if he ventures into the Something-Fishy boards and registers so that he can post, he’ll quickly find that posts there are closely monitored and that if he becomes too manipulative, he’ll be called on it by someone, and if he gets way out of line, well, the moderators will simply close his post(s) and also suspend him. They’ve got a lot of safeguards built into that system, too, so that he can’t readily email people. Mouse’s story about the scorpion and the frog….yes, an excellent analogy! We can’t be sure at all if this particular "scorpion" has changed his nature at all….especially in such a brief time frame…. While it’s nice to give someone the benefit of the doubt and to acknowledge some progress, it’s not a good idea to just wholeheartedly take their word for where they think they are now in terms of "recovery," especially when it involves mental illness. Proceed with caution… –Connie — "Starving the flesh wastes the spirit." –Kandis Elliot
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the facilitators is his girlfriend and the other one is a man he helped a lot last year who was recovering from surgery-I know neither of them will back me up. Maybe we should ask the entire group what they think. The most important rule of that group is not sharing what is said in the group outside of the group. You broke that rule, and you should take responsibility for it. Isn’t another cardnial rule not to screw around with the facilitator? Talk about crossing bounderies. So how have you changed? You crossed boundaries before and you’re crossing them again. Jen, you should not be in that group. The facilitator is obviously not trained properly if she’s dating a memeber of a group she’s leading. Zoe
Zoe, you know nothing about that group and you’re totally clueless about it. Kevin
Response:
Well Put:o) -JC (aka jen, jenjiffer)
Response:
Well Put:o) -JC (aka jen, jenjiffer)
Heh. She is going to miss the group, very deeply, esp. when things go bad for her again. Her coping skill for when she is hurt like that is to say things like: – I don’t give a rat’s ass (a few days ago) – You couldn’t pay me to go to that group again (yesterday) I’ve seen this before with Jen — it’s how she covers up her feelings — with anger — and she *never* takes responsibility for her actions. Notice that she didn’t take responsibility for violating a cardinal rule of that group — what is said there, stays there. Kevin
Response:
Your post is well-written Connie — you have a talent for that. I posted in another thread voluntary restrictions that I’d be willing to follow. Any other ideas, short of not posting at all, are welcome. What Jen disclosed (in violation of cardinal rules) does not mean I am not doing well. Many people e-mailed me saying they were happy that things are going better for me. If I am out of line on any post, (aside from defending myself from flames) — then *anyone* can call me on it. I don’t think that would happen frequently. that noone can e-mail me there. I meet and have become friends with people through e-mails saying that they appreciated my post and found it helpful. So, cutting off my e-mail would be a good step. (and, I could even use a fake e-mail address). I won’t e-mail other people on the group, or people who I knew before (like in the private group), except for those who contact me, and for those that have remained friends throughout the whole situation. Again, I appreciate how you looked at this from an intellectually honest point of view instead of hurling insults like others have done. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I hear you, Mouse….and I understand. I empathize. I agree. I also hear where Marie’s coming from, too….it IS interesting that people have suddenly reappeared out of the woodwork….. I realize that coincidences do happen and that the timing on this just happened to work out this way for a couple of people, but yes, it is intriguing how a situation, especially one which is likely to be controversial, can bring lurkers out and result in a lot of posts…. It IS unfortunate that suddenly a lot of attention is being focused on one person. It’s negative attention for the most part, but attention nonetheless. That’s not a healthy situation for any of us, either the person who is being challenged and/or discussed, or the rest of us. However, due to the history between this particular person and the newsgroup as a whole, especially during one volatile time period, well, yes, unfortunately it seems to be necessary that something be said now, that people be able to express their concerns at his reappearance among us, etc. There was significant damage done during that particular time period, and while he seems to think that prior to this time that he was a wonderfully supportive participant on the newsgroup, and that this will offset the other…. well, the evidence points to something quite different, as I’ve mentioned in another post. Certainly not very much time has passed since the incidents which have caused so many people so much pain. Why would anyone expect to be able to brush that aside now, sweep it under the rug and talk about moving on? Sorry, life doesn’t work that way. While killfiling is an answer in one regard, unfortunately that is not the best solution in this situation because first of all, many times people quote others’ posts and so those who don’t want to see Kevin’s words would still see them, either bits and pieces or his posts in their entirety. Aside from that there is the problem of newcomers not being alerted to the potential hazards in communication with Kevin, particularly in email. True, what he did may never happen again….but we can’t be sure of that, any more than he can. He may assure everyone that he’s in a different place now, etc., etc., but we can’t guarantee, nor can he, nor can his current treatment team, that this wouldn’t happen again. And therein lies the danger…. Occasionally he can be objective and helpful without switching things around to himself and his own issues, too, as in his responses to my inquiries about certain treatment programs. I read the information and thanked him for his responses, which is only polite, after all, just as I thanked others who responded…. but for me, with Kevin, that’s as far as it goes. My acceptance and acknowledgement of the responses in this one situation or my comments about his changed sig file (it was refreshing not to see that old "trusting the process" crap again) does NOT imply anything further. It is not a global acceptance of what he has done in the past, and I hope that no one, especially Kevin himself, misinterprets this as such. I have the feeling, though, that this disclaimer is necessary…. What we’ve seen from Jennifer, someone who knows Kevin in "real life," who has interacted with him in a support group situation, clearly suggests that he is not as healthy, as "reformed" or stable as he is presenting himself here. However, many people have already expressed doubts anyway….We all need to heed our own gut-level instincts, pay attention to what is being said and by whom and in what way…. No easy answers here except for the obvious one: that Kevin simply refrain from posting on ASED. I am sure that he’s been lurking for the time that we haven’t seen any posts and I’m sure that he will continue to do so…..and unfortunately there’s no good way to prevent that. He has pretty much destroyed himself as far as ASED is concerned. Perhaps he could attempt to find online support elsewhere, if he hasn’t already. Thing is, if he ventures into the Something-Fishy boards and registers so that he can post, he’ll quickly find that posts there are closely monitored and that if he becomes too manipulative, he’ll be called on it by someone, and if he gets way out of line, well, the moderators will simply close his post(s) and also suspend him. They’ve got a lot of safeguards built into that system, too, so that he can’t readily email people. Mouse’s story about the scorpion and the frog….yes, an excellent analogy! We can’t be sure at all if this particular "scorpion" has changed his nature at all….especially in such a brief time frame…. While it’s nice to give someone the benefit of the doubt and to acknowledge some progress, it’s not a good idea to just wholeheartedly take their word for where they think they are now in terms of "recovery," especially when it involves mental illness. Proceed with caution… –Connie
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