Question:
Celt, I am totally new to this newsgroup and was just been diagnosed with PTSD on 22 Oct. I have my initial eval with a mental health doc on 08 Nov, but this is not why I am replying to your post. Reading your post made me realize that, in addition to an incident which happened to me in 1994 in my own apartment by a shipmate, and I mean that in a negative way, my PTSD goes much further back than that; like to the time when I was 14 years old. I babysat for this couple who lived across the street from us and one day the male half of the couple, 39 years of age, came over to drop off the baby, only he didn’t have the baby. He proceeded to ask me how could a girl of 14 be as pretty as me, to which I replied I don’t think I’m pretty. He then stepped in front of me and put his hands around my waist and pulled me close to him, and tried to kiss me, but I turned me head away. I managed to get away from him and he left, went and got the baby and dropped him off with me and left my house. I was scared to death to tell my mother because I was afraid she would say I brought it on myself. Why and how I learned that at the tender age of 14 I will never understand. So I told my mother’s boyfriend’s (who, at the time was most important to her!!!) son and he turned around and told my mother. When she confronted me with the information, I told her why I didn’t tell her initially and the best she could summon up was, "Well, Dale (the wonderful, unemployed drunk of a boyfriend)thinks you brought it on yourself." To beat all, instead of saying something to the 39 year old jerk, she made me continue babysitting for him. Even worse, he tried something again only that time I told him to stop. The questions that have always haunted me are: 1. Why didn’t my mother protect me from the jerk? 2. Why was I forced to continue babysitting for the jerk? 3. Why was I subjected to it a second time? I apologize to all for rambling, but Celt’s post just brought out some underlying issues with me that I am going to have to face with my doc and I am scared to death. Just writing the above made my chest hurt and my heart rate go up a couple of beats due to my intense rage against my mother. Thanks for listening! Celt, thanks for this post and understanding and making me realize that all this crap is not in my head. Dee
Response:
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:04:07 -0000, "Deeanna L. Martin" <deea…@luv4cats.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
<snip sad story that threatens to trigger me to outrage> Deeanna, dear Deeanna, 14 is too young to be learning the rougher lessons of life. I suffered my first trauma at 14. I can’t say "I know how you feel", (only you know that) but I do think we may have much in common. I admire your courage in taking the first few steps down the path to recovery. That path winds and twists; it’s overgrown in places with thorny bushes and who knows what might be in the darker shadows? Yet, at the end of it there is a whole new life, better than you could ever have imagined. When you turned toward recovery you proved to yourself, to me, and to many others that you value yourself for the wonderful person that you are. You proved that you are someone worth working for. >1. Why didn’t my mother protect me from the jerk? >2. Why was I forced to continue babysitting for the jerk? >3. Why was I subjected to it a second time?
I am sorry, Deeanna, but I cannot answer your questions. The answers, I know, are vitally important. I know, too, that they are a part of you right now, and that you can find them – one day. On that day the clouds will part, the puddles start to dry, and the world will shine before you – brighter and cleaner than ever before. That day will drop from the blue, right in front of you, just when you thought you were mired to your hips and there was no way out. When the path seems darkest, and the thorns thickest, take heart! Some part of resolution is very near to you now. The *best* rewards are often those which are hardest to reach. You are a very special, unique and valuable person. Deep down inside of you there are buckets full of really excellent stuff – the personal qualities that make you shine – compassion for others; true grit and determination… These I can guess, and I know there are others just as good or better. *No-one* can take these things away from you. They are woven into the fabric that makes you especially *you*. Which is just as well, for these are the qualities that bloom and grow along the way. Beside you now there is the *real* you – the you who would have been and who can be again. She is there with you every step of the way, ready with a hug and a word of encouragement. I am glad to be aware that you are not alone. Good Luck, Deeanna. The Celt is with you as well, at least in spirit. Best wishes for the long, long path ahead, The Celt. May the road rise beneath your feet, May the wind be always at your back. thecelt00 (at) icqmail (dot) com icq 45954753 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Deeanna Every young girl on my street where I grew up was a victim of the ‘dirty old man’ at the bottom of the street. When I was 9, my 7 year old sister told my father what he was doing to us and my father’s response was to ‘just stay away from him’. That was the mindset of the time (70s). Especially here in Newfoundland. The mindset that a good catholic man ‘wouldn’t’ do it. Alot has changed. Alot. I have to take a lot of consolation in that. Take Care Lesleyanne The one and only chech @ http://home.thezone.net/~chech Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
>Every young girl on my street where I grew up was a victim of the ‘dirty >old man’ at the bottom of the street. When I was 9, my 7 year old >sister told my father what he was doing to us and my father’s response >was to ‘just stay away from him’.
You know, this is a little off-topic, but my sister and I were talking on the phone today about how in the 60’s, it was common place to come home with ‘knots’ in our heads from the nuns pulling our hair in school! I don’t have children of my own, but if I did, and I found out that a NUN pulled my child’s hair, I would march down to the school and pull HER HAIR!! Our parents knew about this, and just accepted this as a part of Catholic Education! Guess how many of us our practicing Catholics in my family (six of all kids – all adopted)? You got it – NONE! Luanne
Response:
In article <7vo1td$s5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, La Chech <Lesleya…@thezone.net> wrote: > Every young girl on my street where I grew up was a victim of the ‘dirty > old man’ at the bottom of the street. When I was 9, my 7 year old > sister told my father what he was doing to us and my father’s response > was to ‘just stay away from him’.
It was like that in the midwest US, too. I remember similar things from when I was a young kid. > That was the mindset of the time (70s). Especially here in > Newfoundland. The mindset that a good catholic man ‘wouldn’t’ do it.
It was accepted that "good" men would do it. For example, my vice- principal was known as a "dirty old man". But we were told to "stay away from him" "don’t do anything wrong so then he won’t have any reason to get near you" or "don’t let him do anything". It was YOUR responsibility to make sure that no one molested you. If you let them, YOU did something wrong. Even if you were a young kid or even if the person was in your family or even if the person had authority over you. That was the mind set in the 1960s and most of the 1970s, at least where I lived. > Alot has changed. Alot. I have to take a lot of consolation in that.
Me, too. I think things are much better now. I’m very glad about that. Thanks, Lesleyanne, for reminding me that some things are much better now. rb Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Hi I just found this group. I felt compelled to respond to the question "Why didn’t my mother protect me?" because I have a similar situation. When I was six and my mother found out that the son of family friends had been making me take off my clothes whenever we visited, she told me to never take my clothes for him for any reason. I remember being glad that was all I told her about, because there was alot more going on. Years later I confronted my mom about it. She said she didn’t know. I asked her if anything strange had happened to her when she was little. The teenager next door to her grabbed her one afternoon when she was five and pulled down her pants. She got away and ran home screaming. Nothing was ever done about it. I think because my grandparents were afraid that my mom would be stigmatized if the truth about this boy came out. My mother just avoided him. The onus was put on my mom and in turn it was put on me. There’s more. My parents have maintained ties with these "friends" and keep pressuring me to do the same even though I have refused to have any contact for the past twelve years. I have concluded that my parents were probably abused as children, that because of societal pressures my grandparents did not protect them. My parents never gained enough emotional distance to allow them to get angry at their parents and if they allowed themselves to believe that I was abused then that might force them to look at what happened to them. I believe people who don’t address past trauma either abuse their kids or allow them to be abused. There’s my two cents, so to speak. mao * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Response:
>My parents never gained >enough emotional distance to allow them to get angry at >their parents and if they allowed themselves to believe >that I was abused then that might force them to look at >what happened to them.>
You’re right, this is what I’ve had to do. The anger was easy, but they don’t deal with it. Finally, they’re out of my life. Too abusive still. Both were abused and haven’t sought sufficient help to stop their abusive behavior. Me, I’ve worked my ass off. I haven’t abused my child. Period. It ended with me. >I believe people who don’t address past trauma either abuse >their kids or allow them to be abused.
Exactly.
Response:
Thanks for your email. You have just written the story of my life in one email. I spent most of my life till know, trusting abusive, manipulative control freaks. Mostly I am too nice to people because I dont want to offend them, even though I am getting warning signals that they want too much. best wishes estelle
Response:
On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:18:58 GMT, thecelt…@yahoo.co.nz (The Celt) wrote: >Best wishes on the long, long way… >The Celt. >May the road rise beneath your feet, >May the wind be ever at your back. >thecelt_00 (at) icqmail (dot) com >icq 45954753
*And* blew it <g> My mail gets there quicker if you send it to thecelt00 (at) icqmail (dot) com
Response:
Excellent list indeed. Very well done and so very accurate!! Thank you for that insight. Katie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Celt wrote: > *Warning* triggers later – I flagged them. > In another thread I saw… > "I need to be able to spot users and abusers right upfront, identify > them, and blown them off, right then and there, instead of trying to > find the good in them." > Well, here are a few pointers I’ve picked up along the way… > This list isn’t complete, but I hope it can be a starting point for > you. > # Give a little, give a little, refuse a little. > If they blow their stack, act hostile etc, chances are they were > *counting* on using you. > # They use emotional blackmail. > eg- they try to make you feel fear, obligation or guilt if you don’t > <whatever they want> > Tip – ask for time to consider the ‘request’. If the idea of waiting > sets them off, well they were *counting* on using EB to intimidate > you. > # They always have to go ‘one better’. > It doesn’t matter what it is, they will always grow bigger veges, > drive a faster/dearer/bigger car, have better kids, suffer bigger life > disasters, have more stress, owe more money (or else they regale you > with tales of how they did)… > # They make a *lot* of ‘You’ statements. > eg… "You always have to be right", "you are <substitute suitable > character trait>", "you never <whatever they want at the moment>". > {aside – ‘you’ statements are usually a sign of projection. When > someone uses ‘you’ statements at you, often they are really telling > you about their secret self.} > # They tell you they know you better than you know yourself. > eg – they know that when you said "abc" what you *really* meant was > "efg" and they know what your feelings are or that you haven’t got > any, or they know what you want…. > # They say "You should…" an awful lot. > # They get offended if you dare to be different. > They want you to like the same food, watch the same movie, agree with > the same opinions, have the same hobbies… > # They want to be first. Always. > They make ‘forgetting’ some small detail about them a mortal sin; > their coffee has to be poured first, sugared first and creamed first > and then served first; you find you can’t have any obligation to > anything (not even kids or animals) that is more important, whether > it’s five minutes delay or five hours, even if someone is dying. > # You find you have no rights. > No right to speak, to be clever, to ’shine’, and never, ever, ever the > right to defend yourself. > # Indeed, they interpret self-defense as a personal attack. > Everytime. > # They put you down, ridicule you. > Beware of people who try to hit you in the self-esteem. > # They always seem to need your > help/sympathy/TLC/tolerance/forgiveness. > Basically, they play the wounded animal when confronted with the > consequences of their own behaviour or the day-to-day stresses of > life. > AND > … > I reckon there might be a few > *TRIGGERS* > ahead > … > here’s the biggie… > # They have unresolved abuse issue/s in their past. > I’ve done a lot of reading about this, observed a lot of behaviours > (including my own) and clocked up hours of careful thought and > consideration. I’m going to stick my neck out here and say that {in > my opinion} 10 out of 10 abusers have been abused, and 10 out of 10 > abused people develop abusive behaviours. > Because they learn what they are taught. > They were taught (by the abuser) that they are most powerful when they > can be one up/right/important/intimidating/deserving/exploiting. > What’s more, they feel very small and weak inside. > And quite a bit afraid. > So they have to fend off the big bad world with a bigger stick than > anyone else has. > I think abuse is the inevitable consequence of abuse. > And, for all those people who think they might be just a little bit > abusive, well, *I* forgive you, because I understand *why*. > Best wishes on the long, long way… > The Celt. > May the road rise beneath your feet, > May the wind be ever at your back. > thecelt_00 (at) icqmail (dot) com > icq 45954753
Response:
*Warning* triggers later – I flagged them. In another thread I saw… "I need to be able to spot users and abusers right upfront, identify them, and blown them off, right then and there, instead of trying to find the good in them." Well, here are a few pointers I’ve picked up along the way… This list isn’t complete, but I hope it can be a starting point for you. # Give a little, give a little, refuse a little. If they blow their stack, act hostile etc, chances are they were *counting* on using you. # They use emotional blackmail. eg- they try to make you feel fear, obligation or guilt if you don’t <whatever they want> Tip – ask for time to consider the ‘request’. If the idea of waiting sets them off, well they were *counting* on using EB to intimidate you. # They always have to go ‘one better’. It doesn’t matter what it is, they will always grow bigger veges, drive a faster/dearer/bigger car, have better kids, suffer bigger life disasters, have more stress, owe more money (or else they regale you with tales of how they did)… # They make a *lot* of ‘You’ statements. eg… "You always have to be right", "you are <substitute suitable character trait>", "you never <whatever they want at the moment>". {aside – ‘you’ statements are usually a sign of projection. When someone uses ‘you’ statements at you, often they are really telling you about their secret self.} # They tell you they know you better than you know yourself. eg – they know that when you said "abc" what you *really* meant was "efg" and they know what your feelings are or that you haven’t got any, or they know what you want…. # They say "You should…" an awful lot. # They get offended if you dare to be different. They want you to like the same food, watch the same movie, agree with the same opinions, have the same hobbies… # They want to be first. Always. They make ‘forgetting’ some small detail about them a mortal sin; their coffee has to be poured first, sugared first and creamed first and then served first; you find you can’t have any obligation to anything (not even kids or animals) that is more important, whether it’s five minutes delay or five hours, even if someone is dying. # You find you have no rights. No right to speak, to be clever, to ’shine’, and never, ever, ever the right to defend yourself. # Indeed, they interpret self-defense as a personal attack. Everytime. # They put you down, ridicule you. Beware of people who try to hit you in the self-esteem. # They always seem to need your help/sympathy/TLC/tolerance/forgiveness. Basically, they play the wounded animal when confronted with the consequences of their own behaviour or the day-to-day stresses of life. AND … I reckon there might be a few *TRIGGERS* ahead … here’s the biggie… # They have unresolved abuse issue/s in their past. I’ve done a lot of reading about this, observed a lot of behaviours (including my own) and clocked up hours of careful thought and consideration. I’m going to stick my neck out here and say that {in my opinion} 10 out of 10 abusers have been abused, and 10 out of 10 abused people develop abusive behaviours. Because they learn what they are taught. They were taught (by the abuser) that they are most powerful when they can be one up/right/important/intimidating/deserving/exploiting. What’s more, they feel very small and weak inside. And quite a bit afraid. So they have to fend off the big bad world with a bigger stick than anyone else has. I think abuse is the inevitable consequence of abuse. And, for all those people who think they might be just a little bit abusive, well, *I* forgive you, because I understand *why*. Best wishes on the long, long way… The Celt. May the road rise beneath your feet, May the wind be ever at your back. thecelt_00 (at) icqmail (dot) com icq 45954753
If you like this post and would like to receive updates from this blog, please subscribe our feed.