Question:
how can anyone expect me to behaviorally treat my condition if the condition itself prevents me from doing so?
I’ve often wondered that myself. I just got that book in the mail, "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy", and I’m sort of stuck in chapter two, as I’m supposed to write down every depressed thought I have, label it according to a system I can’t remember, and then figure out what the thought should have been. I’m way too tired to do that. I think I’ll invent a new therapy, and call it COCT (Cat-Oriented Cognitive Therapy). This is where every time you have a depressed or anxious thought, you tell it, "No! Bad thought!" and kick it off the chair. Then, when it jumps back on the chair, you repeat the process, until it realizes it can’t win, and stalks off to lick its fur. 
Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? most diseases remain uncurable. Medicine has only one true ground of cure in treating diseases and that is slowly eroding microbial sensitivity to antibiotics for bacterail invasion. Surgery can effectuate some cure rates but most surgical procedures incur remission rather then cure. Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? It is equally hard to create and maintain a rational philosophy about any belief systems you hold. If you do not relinquish irratiional structure of belief then you will maintain emotional distress as a logical conclusion to the idea that you are chronically ill and can do nothing about it. Developing a strategy that includes equilibrium of life is the best approach to treating any chronic malady-anxiety is a malady of being, biology, culture, society, instinct, survival, and definition. You can deal with each of these and more,so called, anxiogenic factors with relatively good success. I have many ills that plague my life but I do not allow them the luxury of plaguing my ability to live .
You must have an extraordinary power of will. By placing yourself into the classification of being chronicaly ill, sick or dysfuntional, your only consequence of emoting to that, is with depression and a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. You become your label. You don’t have to. The choice is yours to make, but I can personally vouch that the merits of dealing with and managing ones issues (anxiety may not necessarily fall into the definition of disease), you can lead a joyful and wonderful life.
I don’t understand how depression can be a disease for which there is no cure, AND at the same time the result of behavioral choices which can be changed to the point where life becomes joyful. If a person who’s been diagnosed with depression is living a joyful and wonderful life, then they’re not depressed anymore. Isn’t that a cure? If not, what is it? How can depression be both incurable and curable? And if some people have major depression, yet do not acknowledge that they have it in order not to label themselves as "depressed", aren’t they in denial about their condition? Is it or is it not the right thing to do to face reality, even if it means accepting the unpleasant reality of having depression? It’s all such a bundle of paradoxes. I’m a very intelligent woman. I’ve read more than I care to about depression, its causes, its effects, and its treatments. I’ve been in therapy with three different, credentialed therapists, most recently with a CBT specialist, over the past nearly 20 years, and on meds for about the past 15 — various meds, alone and in combinations. I have practiced meditation. I have worked a 12-step program. Yet I still am nowhere near living a joyful and wonderful life because I can’t *remember* to use behavioral tools AND I find it terribly hard to try. I’m told that my memory problem, my mental focus problem, and my (I’m having trouble finding the right word for the "feeling it’s pointless to try") are symptoms of depression. Well damn it — how can anyone expect me to behaviorally treat my condition if the condition itself prevents me from doing so? Can you explain that to me? Why am I still sick? Will I always be sick? If I stop telling myself I have depression, am I on the road to recovery or am I being dishonest with myself? Deirdre I would recommend – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you seek out a qualified certified cbt therapist with a good reputation and seek treatment with them. Getting yourself stuck into the paradigm that you are sick and must make the best of it, only leads to frustration and pain, now you will have two problems, frustration about having an anxiety disorder and frustration about your frustration, anxiety over your anxiety-you add secondary levels of irrational thinking to a primary one-I feel anxiety and cannot stand it it is awful-you can stand it, you are standing it, it is not more then 100% painful it can only be at most 100% painful 100% of the time and it is not. Your choice is clearly to learn ways to manage your life and how you respond to it, and how to change your behaviors and emotions as a part of a comprehensive mode of therapy and medications-then you will no longer see yourself as a sick person-but a person who may have sickness, who may have any number of chronic conditions that require methods of management — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron. I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years. I’m not a good candidate for CBT. I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried. I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times. {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs. (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P
Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?
After 30-plus years of this, I am pretty resigned to always having panic disorder and anxiety. Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?
Up until recently, yes. I would get very angry. Now I try not to think too much about it anymore, because it only aggravates me and I need to channel my energy in more positive directions and enjoy life as much as I can. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?
No, I can keep some distance from it, and try to look at it objectively. It is hard to know that it probably won’t go away, and will probably get worse, but I know there’s a root to all of it, and I can keep digging and one day hopefully find it. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I agree with Ron’s reply. It’s been way too long for me to feel there is a lot of hope. Also as for my driving phobia I feel it is too deeply engrained into my mindset to ever find myself driving alone on the interstate again. Not being negative, only honest. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? There is for me no going back. Far too much was affected by it to ever be put "right." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I accept myself as being incurable and I know I shouldn’t feel that way. There’s that word – shouldn’t. :-) I don’t make the best of it, though, usually. I have very high anxiety today for absolutely no reason other than I didn’t fall asleep until after 1:00 last night. Don’t know why, just couldn’t sleep. I always feel it the next day, high anxiety, and I don’t like it.
I hate not having at least 8 hours sleep. My anxiety is always much worse when I don’t get enough sleep. Lack of sleep will put me in a constant higher than normal state of anxiety. It somehow feels different than normal anxiety, but I don’t know how to describe it. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I agree with Ron’s reply. It’s been way too long for me to feel there is a lot of hope. Also as for my driving phobia I feel it is too deeply engrained into my mindset to ever find myself driving alone on the interstate again. Not being negative, only honest. smiles, Elise
Although I do have a little hope, I think I know exactly what you mean. I don’t recall a time in my life when anxiety wasn’t a daily factor, and going back to my first childhood memories, it’s now been about 40 years that anxiety has ruled my life. Who knows what I felt in the first 5 years of life? Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?
most diseases remain uncurable. Medicine has only one true ground of cure in treating diseases and that is slowly eroding microbial sensitivity to antibiotics for bacterail invasion. Surgery can effectuate some cure rates but most surgical procedures incur remission rather then cure. Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?
It is equally hard to create and maintain a rational philosophy about any belief systems you hold. If you do not relinquish irratiional structure of belief then you will maintain emotional distress as a logical conclusion to the idea that you are chronically ill and can do nothing about it. Developing a strategy that includes equilibrium of life is the best approach to treating any chronic malady-anxiety is a malady of being, biology, culture, society, instinct, survival, and definition. You can deal with each of these and more,so called, anxiogenic factors with relatively good success. I have many ills that plague my life but I do not allow them the luxury of plaguing my ability to live . By placing yourself into the classification of being chronicaly ill, sick or dysfuntional, your only consequence of emoting to that, is with depression and a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. You become your label. You don’t have to. The choice is yours to make, but I can personally vouch that the merits of dealing with and managing ones issues (anxiety may not necessarily fall into the definition of disease), you can lead a joyful and wonderful life. I would recommend you seek out a qualified certified cbt therapist with a good reputation and seek treatment with them. Getting yourself stuck into the paradigm that you are sick and must make the best of it, only leads to frustration and pain, now you will have two problems, frustration about having an anxiety disorder and frustration about your frustration, anxiety over your anxiety-you add secondary levels of irrational thinking to a primary one-I feel anxiety and cannot stand it it is awful-you can stand it, you are standing it, it is not more then 100% painful it can only be at most 100% painful 100% of the time and it is not. Your choice is clearly to learn ways to manage your life and how you respond to it, and how to change your behaviors and emotions as a part of a comprehensive mode of therapy and medications-then you will no longer see yourself as a sick person-but a person who may have sickness, who may have any number of chronic conditions that require methods of management — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron. I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years. I’m not a good candidate for CBT. I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried. I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times. {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs. (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P Di
You bet I know where you are coming from. To top it off, I’ve been known as a "hard head" too. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron. I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years. I’m not a good candidate for CBT. I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried. I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times. {{{{{Ron}}}}}
this is NOT what cbt is-anyone who expouses to be a pollyanna is not a cbt therapist Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs.
the only people who find it difficult to use cbt are those who simply do not use it, or their doctors or therapists don’t know how to apply it beyond a textbook they read three years ago in the toilet (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P Di You bet I know where you are coming from. To top it off, I’ve been known as a "hard head" too. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow.
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I accept myself as being incurable and I know I shouldn’t feel that way. There’s that word – shouldn’t. :-) I don’t make the best of it, though, usually. I have very high anxiety today for absolutely no reason other than I didn’t fall asleep until after 1:00 last night. Don’t know why, just couldn’t sleep. I always feel it the next day, high anxiety, and I don’t like it. I don’t feel I’ve learned anything having panic, anxiety, ag or PTSD either. Guess I feel more down today than I thought I did. Sorry TJ. Hugs, Di
Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?
There is for me no going back. Far too much was affected by it to ever be put "right." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?
I told my therapist a few weeks ago that I felt like giving up on therapy and meds because after 15 years of them I have to admit I’m unfixable, so what’s the point of wasting resources on me when they could be put to better use on others who are more fixable? We talked about it, and we came up with this idea: I am not a broken machine. I just have parts that need to be maintained and used often enough to prevent rusting up. Meds and therapy and other tools, like meditation, are my maintenance program: without them I would likely break down and become utterly useless. I will probably always have comorbid depression and anxiety to varying degrees. It’s okay if I need to rant or cry or pout sometimes about this condition, but I need always to come back to accepting this fact. One thing it’s hard for me to remember is accepting reality on its own terms doesn’t equal liking it. So when I can let go of the expectation of being cured, and use my tools the best I can to ‘maintain the machine’, I can have a measure of serenity. Not pleasure or ecstacy or joie de vivre — for those I have to look elsewhere. I will likely never feel the way I did back in the day when the depression and anxiety were less intense and only occasional. This pisses me off, but there’s not one damn thing I can do about it. I try to maintain a sense of humor — that helps. What really pisses me off is that this condition — comorbid depression and anxiety — causes me to worsen it by its very nature. Did that make sense? So, yeah, I am able at times to be philosophical about it. Sometimes I just get too tired of fighting and I crawl back into bed and whimper for an hour or a week. Now I’m looking forward to reading what others have written. How about you, TJ? Sla
If you like this post and would like to receive updates from this blog, please subscribe our feed.