Trauma - PTSD » PTSD

post-dental-trauma stress

admin — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi Deirdre, Sounds like you are going through a really bad time. I hope you get satisfactory answers tomorrow when you go back to the dentist. Try to rest, and take it easy. Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t get too detailed here because of two things… one I don’t want to freak anybody out and two I may end up suing the dentist things were just bearable until: 1. the novocaine wore off 2. i discovered they didn’t do all the work they said they would do couple hours when our elderhelp shopper picks them up. I can’t drive to the pharmacy because I’m sedated enough to be absolutely sure I won’t have an anxiety attack. Which is to say, I took a whole klonopin and a whole trazodone, and am just barely awake, but it beats the crap out of being hypervigilant AND in pain. Sleepy and in pain is much better. Tomorrow (Thursday) I go back to dentist for post-op something. I have some serious questions for him, and I want the right answers or i may have to raise some hell. I’m hungry but all I can manage right now is room temperature broth. I am having to get my cigarette fix by smoking through my nose because I can’t risk getting dry sockets. As a 2 to 3 packs a day smoker, this is a challenge. I have a cold pack trying to help the swelling on my lower jaw — tied on with a scarf. I’m very tired now and am going back to bed. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Deirdre, Remember salt water rinses to help prevent dry sockets. Slurpees can help because of the ice. Using a straw to drink through is also helpful. (((Deirdre)))love Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t get too detailed here because of two things… one I don’t want to freak anybody out and two I may end up suing the dentist things were just bearable until: 1. the novocaine wore off 2. i discovered they didn’t do all the work they said they would do couple hours when our elderhelp shopper picks them up. I can’t drive to the pharmacy because I’m sedated enough to be absolutely sure I won’t have an anxiety attack. Which is to say, I took a whole klonopin and a whole trazodone, and am just barely awake, but it beats the crap out of being hypervigilant AND in pain. Sleepy and in pain is much better. Tomorrow (Thursday) I go back to dentist for post-op something. I have some serious questions for him, and I want the right answers or i may have to raise some hell. I’m hungry but all I can manage right now is room temperature broth. I am having to get my cigarette fix by smoking through my nose because I can’t risk getting dry sockets. As a 2 to 3 packs a day smoker, this is a challenge. I have a cold pack trying to help the swelling on my lower jaw — tied on with a scarf. I’m very tired now and am going back to bed. Deirdre

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Deirdre)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I’m so sorry you are going through this pain. Thinking of you! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I can’t get too detailed here because of two things… one I don’t want to freak anybody out and two I may end up suing the dentist things were just bearable until: 1. the novocaine wore off 2. i discovered they didn’t do all the work they said they would do couple hours when our elderhelp shopper picks them up. I can’t drive to the pharmacy because I’m sedated enough to be absolutely sure I won’t have an anxiety attack. Which is to say, I took a whole klonopin and a whole trazodone, and am just barely awake, but it beats the crap out of being hypervigilant AND in pain. Sleepy and in pain is much better. Tomorrow (Thursday) I go back to dentist for post-op something. I have some serious questions for him, and I want the right answers or i may have to raise some hell. I’m hungry but all I can manage right now is room temperature broth. I am having to get my cigarette fix by smoking through my nose because I can’t risk getting dry sockets. As a 2 to 3 packs a day smoker, this is a challenge. I have a cold pack trying to help the swelling on my lower jaw — tied on with a scarf. I’m very tired now and am going back to bed. Deirdre

. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Oh, Deirdre, I’m so very sorry things went badly. Please take care of yourself and try not to worry about the dentist until you feel better. Then you can deal with it. ((((((((((((((((((((((Deirdre)))))))))))))))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

{{{Deirdre}}} Hope you’re feeling better now, I’m so sorry they didn’t do the work they said they’d do… has that been resolved now? — Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thanks everybody for the support and sympathy. As it turns out I was somewhat hysterical when I posted. I saw the dentist today, and he answered all my questions, and allayed all my fears. Everything is going well. I misunderstood some things and he was very patient with me and explained all in detail. I’m not getting ripped off, and I AM getting excellent care. He put a soft liner in my upper plate today so it is now less irritating. He commended me on keeping it all clean and doing the salt-water rinsing. He says he already sees I’m healing quickly. I will get the lower partial plate once the sockets have healed more. I will get my final set of plates whenever all the swelling is gone. I still have a somewhat bruised and swollen face … looks like I was in a brief yet intense bar fight

Response:

2. finding the funny in all this — I have realized that if I’m ever in a face to face conversation with someone who is rude to me, all I have to do is shove my plate out into their face and mumble OOGAH BOOGAH. This cracks me up every time I think of it.

Me too. LOL. Sometimes you have to try to see things in a funny light or you get too depressed. My daughter had all her top teeth out and most of the bottom at age 34 about 5 years ago and can still get upset about having to get dentures. At the time she got them out, she was in a really bad state and became very depressed.. She had orthodontic work done when she was young and the orthodontist screwed things up so we think, but the problems didn’t show up till she was older when a lot of her top teeth became loose. After seeing my daughters reaction to getting so many teeth out at quite a young age, when I hear about people getting a lot of teeth out, I am at once sympathetic. And though some of your thoughts are exagerrated, probably most people even without anxiety problems, would have similar thoughts, only the degree is different. Good you got things straightened out with the dentist. You’ve done well. Mary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ll take the hugs. See my dentist Tuesday. Fun eh? love Meryl

Just think "oogah boogah" when the anxiety flairs. It’s not a cure, but it’ll make you laugh, and that’s a good thing. I hope all goes exactly the way you need it to on Tuesday. On every day, actually, but especially on Tuesday. Hugs and more hugs Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ll take the hugs. See my dentist Tuesday. Fun eh? love Meryl Just think "oogah boogah" when the anxiety flairs. It’s not a cure, but it’ll make you laugh, and that’s a good thing. I hope all goes exactly the way you need it to on Tuesday. On every day, actually, but especially on Tuesday. Hugs and more hugs Deirdre

Some good days would be nice. love Meryl — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, Glad to hear everything is working out with the dental care. It won’t be too long until everything is turned around and this is behind you. I think you’re doing a terrific job!!! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks everybody for the support and sympathy. As it turns out I was somewhat hysterical when I posted. I saw the dentist today, and he answered all my questions, and allayed all my fears. Everything is going well. I misunderstood some things and he was very patient with me and explained all in detail. I’m not getting ripped off, and I AM getting excellent care. He put a soft liner in my upper plate today so it is now less irritating. He commended me on keeping it all clean and doing the salt-water rinsing. He says he already sees I’m healing quickly. I will get the lower partial plate once the sockets have healed more. I will get my final set of plates whenever all the swelling is gone. I still have a somewhat bruised and swollen face … looks like I was in a brief yet intense bar fight

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

That’s the pits Deirdre, after all the anxiety of going through this, that the Dentist didn’t perform the work he said he would. I hope it works out alright Deirdre. Many mellow squishies for you… — Doug

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ll take the hugs. See my dentist Tuesday. Fun eh? love Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks everybody for the support and sympathy. As it turns out I was somewhat hysterical when I posted. I saw the dentist today, and he answered all my questions, and allayed all my fears. Everything is going well. I misunderstood some things and he was very patient with me and explained all in detail. I’m not getting ripped off, and I AM getting excellent care. He put a soft liner in my upper plate today so it is now less irritating. He commended me on keeping it all clean and doing the salt-water rinsing. He says he already sees I’m healing quickly. I will get the lower partial plate once the sockets have healed more. I will get my final set of plates whenever all the swelling is gone. I still have a somewhat bruised and swollen face … looks like I was in a brief yet intense bar fight

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, Sorry you had such a bad experience at the dentist. Hoping you are feeling better soon. Get some rest… smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

OMG, Deirdre. You poor thing!!!! Sending you calming and soothing vibes…. It’s the best I can do from here. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

{{{{{{{Deirdre}}}}}}} You poor thing! I feel so bad for you. I hope you get your pain meds real soon. I also hope you get things straightened out with the dentist. Let us know when you can. Feel better soon! Love, Di

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I can’t get too detailed here because of two things… one I don’t want to freak anybody out and two I may end up suing the dentist things were just bearable until: 1. the novocaine wore off 2. i discovered they didn’t do all the work they said they would do couple hours when our elderhelp shopper picks them up. I can’t drive to the pharmacy because I’m sedated enough to be absolutely sure I won’t have an anxiety attack. Which is to say, I took a whole klonopin and a whole trazodone, and am just barely awake, but it beats the crap out of being hypervigilant AND in pain. Sleepy and in pain is much better. Tomorrow (Thursday) I go back to dentist for post-op something. I have some serious questions for him, and I want the right answers or i may have to raise some hell. I’m hungry but all I can manage right now is room temperature broth. I am having to get my cigarette fix by smoking through my nose because I can’t risk getting dry sockets. As a 2 to 3 packs a day smoker, this is a challenge. I have a cold pack trying to help the swelling on my lower jaw — tied on with a scarf. I’m very tired now and am going back to bed. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

{{ Deirdre}} I wouldn’t be fool enough to suggest complete nicotine cessation while you are going through this stressful time. I’d just suggest you get some Nicotine Replacement ( patch or lozenge, NOT GUM) for now, while you sleep off the pain and misery. You DON"T want Dry Socket ( in plural) Trust me. Dry socket ( singular) is enough to entertain thoughts of using the guillotine as pain relief. I sympathize. Sue in Maine — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

How do you feel about being 'incurable'

admin — Mon, 22 May 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

how can anyone expect me to behaviorally treat my condition if the condition itself prevents me from doing so?

I’ve often wondered that myself. I just got that book in the mail, "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy", and I’m sort of stuck in chapter two, as I’m supposed to write down every depressed thought I have, label it according to a system I can’t remember, and then figure out what the thought should have been. I’m way too tired to do that. I think I’ll invent a new therapy, and call it COCT (Cat-Oriented Cognitive Therapy). This is where every time you have a depressed or anxious thought, you tell it, "No! Bad thought!" and kick it off the chair. Then, when it jumps back on the chair, you repeat the process, until it realizes it can’t win, and stalks off to lick its fur. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? most diseases remain uncurable. Medicine has only one true ground of cure in treating diseases and that is slowly eroding microbial sensitivity to antibiotics for bacterail invasion. Surgery can effectuate some cure rates but most surgical procedures incur remission rather then cure. Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? It is equally hard to create and maintain a rational philosophy about any belief systems you hold. If you do not relinquish irratiional structure of belief then you will maintain emotional distress as a logical conclusion to the idea that you are chronically ill and can do nothing about it. Developing a strategy that includes equilibrium of life is the best approach to treating any chronic malady-anxiety is a malady of being, biology, culture, society, instinct, survival, and definition. You can deal with each of these and more,so called, anxiogenic factors with relatively good success. I have many ills that plague my life but I do not allow them the luxury of plaguing my ability to live .

You must have an extraordinary power of will. By placing yourself into the classification of being chronicaly ill, sick or dysfuntional, your only consequence of emoting to that, is with depression and a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. You become your label. You don’t have to. The choice is yours to make, but I can personally vouch that the merits of dealing with and managing ones issues (anxiety may not necessarily fall into the definition of disease), you can lead a joyful and wonderful life.

I don’t understand how depression can be a disease for which there is no cure, AND at the same time the result of behavioral choices which can be changed to the point where life becomes joyful. If a person who’s been diagnosed with depression is living a joyful and wonderful life, then they’re not depressed anymore. Isn’t that a cure? If not, what is it? How can depression be both incurable and curable? And if some people have major depression, yet do not acknowledge that they have it in order not to label themselves as "depressed", aren’t they in denial about their condition? Is it or is it not the right thing to do to face reality, even if it means accepting the unpleasant reality of having depression? It’s all such a bundle of paradoxes. I’m a very intelligent woman. I’ve read more than I care to about depression, its causes, its effects, and its treatments. I’ve been in therapy with three different, credentialed therapists, most recently with a CBT specialist, over the past nearly 20 years, and on meds for about the past 15 — various meds, alone and in combinations. I have practiced meditation. I have worked a 12-step program. Yet I still am nowhere near living a joyful and wonderful life because I can’t *remember* to use behavioral tools AND I find it terribly hard to try. I’m told that my memory problem, my mental focus problem, and my (I’m having trouble finding the right word for the "feeling it’s pointless to try") are symptoms of depression. Well damn it — how can anyone expect me to behaviorally treat my condition if the condition itself prevents me from doing so? Can you explain that to me? Why am I still sick? Will I always be sick? If I stop telling myself I have depression, am I on the road to recovery or am I being dishonest with myself? Deirdre I would recommend – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you seek out a qualified certified cbt therapist with a good reputation and seek treatment with them. Getting yourself stuck into the paradigm that you are sick and must make the best of it, only leads to frustration and pain, now you will have two problems, frustration about having an anxiety disorder and frustration about your frustration, anxiety over your anxiety-you add secondary levels of irrational thinking to a primary one-I feel anxiety and cannot stand it it is awful-you can stand it, you are standing it, it is not more then 100% painful it can only be at most 100% painful 100% of the time and it is not. Your choice is clearly to learn ways to manage your life and how you respond to it, and how to change your behaviors and emotions as a part of a comprehensive mode of therapy and medications-then you will no longer see yourself as a sick person-but a person who may have sickness, who may have any number of chronic conditions that require methods of management — _TJ_

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron. I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years. I’m not a good candidate for CBT. I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried. I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times. {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs. (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P

Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?

After 30-plus years of this, I am pretty resigned to always having panic disorder and anxiety. Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

Up until recently, yes. I would get very angry. Now I try not to think too much about it anymore, because it only aggravates me and I need to channel my energy in more positive directions and enjoy life as much as I can. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

No, I can keep some distance from it, and try to look at it objectively. It is hard to know that it probably won’t go away, and will probably get worse, but I know there’s a root to all of it, and I can keep digging and one day hopefully find it. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I agree with Ron’s reply. It’s been way too long for me to feel there is a lot of hope. Also as for my driving phobia I feel it is too deeply engrained into my mindset to ever find myself driving alone on the interstate again. Not being negative, only honest. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? There is for me no going back. Far too much was affected by it to ever be put "right." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I accept myself as being incurable and I know I shouldn’t feel that way. There’s that word – shouldn’t. :-) I don’t make the best of it, though, usually. I have very high anxiety today for absolutely no reason other than I didn’t fall asleep until after 1:00 last night. Don’t know why, just couldn’t sleep. I always feel it the next day, high anxiety, and I don’t like it.

I hate not having at least 8 hours sleep. My anxiety is always much worse when I don’t get enough sleep. Lack of sleep will put me in a constant higher than normal state of anxiety. It somehow feels different than normal anxiety, but I don’t know how to describe it. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Although I do have a little hope, I think I know exactly what you mean. I don’t recall a time in my life when anxiety wasn’t a daily factor, and going back to my first childhood memories, it’s now been about 40 years that anxiety has ruled my life. Who knows what I felt in the first 5 years of life? Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?

most diseases remain uncurable. Medicine has only one true ground of cure in treating diseases and that is slowly eroding microbial sensitivity to antibiotics for bacterail invasion. Surgery can effectuate some cure rates but most surgical procedures incur remission rather then cure. Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

It is equally hard to create and maintain a rational philosophy about any belief systems you hold. If you do not relinquish irratiional structure of belief then you will maintain emotional distress as a logical conclusion to the idea that you are chronically ill and can do nothing about it. Developing a strategy that includes equilibrium of life is the best approach to treating any chronic malady-anxiety is a malady of being, biology, culture, society, instinct, survival, and definition. You can deal with each of these and more,so called, anxiogenic factors with relatively good success. I have many ills that plague my life but I do not allow them the luxury of plaguing my ability to live . By placing yourself into the classification of being chronicaly ill, sick or dysfuntional, your only consequence of emoting to that, is with depression and a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. You become your label. You don’t have to. The choice is yours to make, but I can personally vouch that the merits of dealing with and managing ones issues (anxiety may not necessarily fall into the definition of disease), you can lead a joyful and wonderful life. I would recommend you seek out a qualified certified cbt therapist with a good reputation and seek treatment with them. Getting yourself stuck into the paradigm that you are sick and must make the best of it, only leads to frustration and pain, now you will have two problems, frustration about having an anxiety disorder and frustration about your frustration, anxiety over your anxiety-you add secondary levels of irrational thinking to a primary one-I feel anxiety and cannot stand it it is awful-you can stand it, you are standing it, it is not more then 100% painful it can only be at most 100% painful 100% of the time and it is not. Your choice is clearly to learn ways to manage your life and how you respond to it, and how to change your behaviors and emotions as a part of a comprehensive mode of therapy and medications-then you will no longer see yourself as a sick person-but a person who may have sickness, who may have any number of chronic conditions that require methods of management — _TJ_

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron. I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years. I’m not a good candidate for CBT. I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried. I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times. {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs. (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P Di

You bet I know where you are coming from. To top it off, I’ve been known as a "hard head" too. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron. I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years. I’m not a good candidate for CBT. I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried. I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times. {{{{{Ron}}}}}

this is NOT what cbt is-anyone who expouses to be a pollyanna is not a cbt therapist Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs.

the only people who find it difficult to use cbt are those who simply do not use it, or their doctors or therapists don’t know how to apply it beyond a textbook they read three years ago in the toilet (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P Di You bet I know where you are coming from. To top it off, I’ve been known as a "hard head" too. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow.

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? — _TJ_

Response:

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

There is for me no going back. Far too much was affected by it to ever be put "right." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I told my therapist a few weeks ago that I felt like giving up on therapy and meds because after 15 years of them I have to admit I’m unfixable, so what’s the point of wasting resources on me when they could be put to better use on others who are more fixable? We talked about it, and we came up with this idea: I am not a broken machine. I just have parts that need to be maintained and used often enough to prevent rusting up. Meds and therapy and other tools, like meditation, are my maintenance program: without them I would likely break down and become utterly useless. I will probably always have comorbid depression and anxiety to varying degrees. It’s okay if I need to rant or cry or pout sometimes about this condition, but I need always to come back to accepting this fact. One thing it’s hard for me to remember is accepting reality on its own terms doesn’t equal liking it. So when I can let go of the expectation of being cured, and use my tools the best I can to ‘maintain the machine’, I can have a measure of serenity. Not pleasure or ecstacy or joie de vivre — for those I have to look elsewhere. I will likely never feel the way I did back in the day when the depression and anxiety were less intense and only occasional. This pisses me off, but there’s not one damn thing I can do about it. I try to maintain a sense of humor — that helps. What really pisses me off is that this condition — comorbid depression and anxiety — causes me to worsen it by its very nature. Did that make sense? So, yeah, I am able at times to be philosophical about it. Sometimes I just get too tired of fighting and I crawl back into bed and whimper for an hour or a week. Now I’m looking forward to reading what others have written. How about you, TJ? Sla

Mother Dying

admin — Sun, 02 Apr 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I thought for some time about this, and I still can’t really decide if there is a *best* approach in terms of discussing this problem with your children. I had few grandparents (several died prior to my birth) and valued the relationships I had/have with them (one has since died). I was made aware of things about the deceased grandparent who I knew till I was 31, and found it all very distressing, and still wish I had just never heard it, because I can’t interview any of the parties involved, as they are all deceased – making resolution not possible. Your daughter has her own relationship to this woman she has chosen to care for, and on the one hand I can see why you would not want her to wonder why you had enmity, avoidance, etc. but on the other, changing her relationship to her grandmother (which may be a very special thing to HER) somehow seems uncomfortable when I contemplate all that. I wish I had more to offer. Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to post here. I’ve read posts for a very long time and this group has really helped me. I find myself in a new situation right now, my mother has stage IV lung cancer and is dying. My adult daughter is moving mom to her house to care for her during these last few months. I am having a very hard time coping with having contact with my mother. I have 4 adult children and they don’t know any details about my history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse from my mother. I know she is dying but I’m not having any sad emotion about this. I’m only feeling trapped about having to help care for her. I had just come to a point in my life, with the help of a therapist, where I decided I would not have any more contact with her. My stress and anxiety is really messing up my life, I am having flash back nightmares that haunt me for the entire day or longer. I don’t want to be nice to my mother or see her. I have not shed a tear since we found out about this cancer. I feel like everyone thinks I’m heartless. Is anyone else in a simular situation? Thanks Dee

It was about 25 years ago with my mother’s mother. My parent’s divorced when I was around 8. Mom had to move in with her mother and brother. My mom, my two sisters, and I all shared a bedroom. Two beds. You couldn’t walk in there. You just jumped on the bed. When my mother found a job, once she went to work it started. The summer was the worst time. She beat the hell out of us for things you wouldn’t believe. I have already posted some details to Jackie here, so I won’t go into it again. I will say, it’s not wrong to be glad a mean hateful person is dead. I wished my grandmother dead many times. That is human. You know how people want to think only the good of the dead. Not me, even now. I never shed a tear over her. She was the most awful person I had ever met. I truly understand how you feel. I would not go see your mother, but that is my opinion. Do what your heart tells you. You really need to tell your kids something. Even if it’s just a small part of it, just so they will understand. I am so sorry you are going through this. God bless you. Vicki

Response:

Hello Dee, I can relate to what you’re feeling. I have PTSD as a result of my father. He was psychologically and physically abusive, and what my shrink and I have defined as "psycho-sexually" abusive. It pisses me off to no end that I have to live with the flashbacks and nightmares. My father always denied being abusive to me, and I thought he was just lying outright. He might have been, but his mind was perhaps sparing him the guilt of what he did to my mother and me by blocking the memories. I don’t know which was the truth. He has ended up in a nursing home, catatonically depressed. I hear through my brother that it’s because he abruptly remembered all of the abuse, and couldn’t cope with it. He feels that he is being punished by God for what he did. It doesn’t matter to me if this is a load of crap or if it’s true, I won’t go and see him. My brother has urged me to, has said that want to see him, I don’t need to see him, and I don’t need the nightmares and flashbacks worsened in any way. I’m not heartless, I’m looking out for my own mental health. I would say that you are too. If there is ANY way that you can get out of helping care for your mother, PLEASE DO SO. You don’t need this, and it will not get better as time goes on, in my opinion. My sister knows about the abuse, my mother of course does, but my brother has never wanted to hear a word about it, and denies anything I tell him about it. I don’t know if you want your children to know anything about this……in the case of my brother, his denial only hurt me more. I suggest you talk to your therapist about this situation, and perhaps have one or more of your children come to a session. You shouldn’t have to cope with this. You can probably tell that I feel strongly about this. The only thing that helps me deal w/my PTSD is NOT seeing my father. I wish you the very best. Sincerely, Sharon

Response:

Hi Dee, I have a friend who is in a similar situation. My friend, who continues to work, has terminal cancer but has not told her mother. She does not love her mother and I understand why. Now her mother is in a nursing home. My friend deals with it by ensuring that her mothers needs are met by others. There is no emotional bond for her. Her mother is manipulative and would try to pretend there is more. My advice is to do what is best for Dee. You have said that your children do not know details about the abuse. Do they know that there was some? If so, I expect they may understand that it is important for you to look after yourself. Take care, Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, I’m new to post here. I’ve read posts for a very long time and this group has really helped me. I find myself in a new situation right now, my mother has stage IV lung cancer and is dying. My adult daughter is moving mom to her house to care for her during these last few months. I am having a very hard time coping with having contact with my mother. I have 4 adult children and they don’t know any details about my history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse from my mother. I know she is dying but I’m not having any sad emotion about this. I’m only feeling trapped about having to help care for her. I had just come to a point in my life, with the help of a therapist, where I decided I would not have any more contact with her. My stress and anxiety is really messing up my life, I am having flash back nightmares that haunt me for the entire day or longer. I don’t want to be nice to my mother or see her. I have not shed a tear since we found out about this cancer. I feel like everyone thinks I’m heartless. Is anyone else in a simular situation? Thanks Dee

Response:

I had a relative who I realy respected and admired,it was only a year or so after his death that I found out he was a pedo I must admit I feel cheated.Although I respect my cousin and aunt and what they went through I would have loved to help them hate the low life prick and let him know how low people who ruin other peoples lives for their own gratification are .Once you reach a certain age you are responsible for what you do to others.I cant help but admire you,you are tearing your self up over not wanting to hurt your kids ,prehaps the past needs to be purged,you deserve happiness after all it wasnt you comitting these crimes regards den

Response:

Dearest Dee, The best thing that I can tell you is to go to Google and type in support groups+cancer+family member. There are tons and tons of places to go and get the help that YOU need. You’ll find others in the exact same situation you’re in. You don’t have to feel guilty about your feelings, and w/the right support group, you’ll find ways to cope. I wish you the best. —

Can't remember the name of the drug

admin — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Well, I would say first relax, though I know it’s difficult. Things are harder in the US in respect of social/public insurance. That it’s a pity, but, then again, a reality you hace to confront. I see that you are well informed and trained on how to deal with those thugs and health mercenaries. That is fantastic, if you think about it: share your knolegde with other people here who’s gettin extorted and ill used by them, That is a broader goal. On the other hand, is there no way by wich you can check a GP or any oher physician BEFORE assiting to them. Surely you can do it. I’ve heard of some Internet pages devoted to that specific proposit. You might even open your own, with that guy first on the black list. You surely can be smarter than this o another doc, but what you need to do (obviously adjusting it to your economic possibilities) is to just stick to one (the least silly of them all) and dialogate with him to end uo with an agree for a treatment of whatever ailment yoou might suffer, The psicological part you can do it yourself, with friends and books at hand -if you are fond of reading- virtually for free, Try to realise what your main problem could be, and agree a provisional solution to it, either with yourself or a doc or even a priest, Whatsoever, stick to it as a dogma for a reasonable while, even if you doubt its rightfulness, It will be plenty of tiime to change your mind once you get better. But do not think that you can go trhough everything alone, historical genius like newton suffered nervous disorders and they could not heal themselves hugely smart as they were. take an example of the well kown Prof. John Forbes Nash Jr., a math crack who suffered from OCD. it’s useful to read its ow autobiography in the Nobel’s Prize web page. he explains a bit, though circumpspiciously, who he managed to control and amelliorate his condition. You can see the movie, as well, i fyou fancy. The point is: being smart, having loads of knoledge about drugs, treatments, anathomy, neurology, whatever it’s not enough to get you better (although comprehension of your state usually helps if you don’t get too obssesed). Everybody knows that psichiatrist and psicologists are as insane as we could be! Ha ha ha! Just be patient, aware of how much time you have laying upon your way. There is no rush and no need to. Consider this trial an opportinity: once you get out, you come out as a more mature an complete person, take that for granted. Be realistic as well, you, or everybody else, could go over the whole thing again once or thrice in your life. So our task is to prepare our minds to confront those difficult situations. once you reach that somhow uthopic state (for we are all humans and these so called ‘illnessness’ are nothing but human reactions) you wouldn’t be afraid no more of yourself and the reactions of your body. Take care Jesus A.D.: … and be nice with the others round here, surely it would be more rewarding and satisfying to you.

Response:

out why. i’ve been nuthin’ but kind ta you, yanno…. and if ya wanna keep that talk up’n walk that hatin’ walk, that’s allllllllll good. but i don’t think ya really dislike me, i know i don’t dislike you. yup, i responded to ya wayyyyyyy outta character just ta maybe letcha know what it feels like ta be busted up on for no apparent reason. it ain’t muh style. so maybe you can decide either WHY ya dislike me and talk to me about it, or decide that maybe ya don’t dislike me. i sure didn’t see yer "outta left field" anger comin’, and i’m all up for considerin’ it’ah "moment". i DO think it’s be in both our best interests ta get along, donchu? after all, we ARE in this thang tagether. ’sup ta you. ya reckon? i sure hope so. ~t

Response:

I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

oh yeah… it was Listerine. i’m sure of it.

Response:

That’s it Tanya. Another key to success (though there is no concept of failure) is to have courage. Better expressed, not to have courage, or to intend intellectually to have it, but to feel it, right just in the mouth of your stomach. And, of course, to presente upon yourself goals and hopes. We are all OK a time ago: the sooner or later we will get back to our former selves, only just being more mature, human, and complete.

Response:

well, at this point all i have is the courage to have hope. BUT i’m titratin’ off these damn things now, so i ain’t posting much. it isn’t really my decision, it’s more my plight here in the armpit of the world, Oklahoma. I am not fighting with the doctors or doctor wannabes anymore, i had my last fight less than an hour ago and it’s a long story, but suffice it to say, i would rather go into seizures and DIE than pay that idiot 175 bucks an hour to force me to prove i was smarter than him on my most stupid day than he will ever be on his smartest. he offered me to come in late today, i told him i’d rather run naked with a load of dynamite strapped between my thighs through a Bic factory. Some might say that wasn’t too smart on my part, i say it was motivation. The whole conversation is quite funny when i relate it or tell it to someone else. it wasn’t at the time, and he surely didn’t think so. His ass is going into the AMA and APA archives (probably file 13) via my letter that will probably never be read, and that’s ok too. i can be quite annoying and sometimes i make a dent in my cause just because people want me to shut up. Do you believe they wouldn’t give me his last name when i called his office????? i said "for $175 an hour for a ‘physician’s assistant’, he best be giving me that last hair he has left that’s surely making a beeline for his behind and don’t MAKE me go there and get his license plate # and look him up in public records and fine out where he lives ! so i did. When all’s said and done, he lives 3 blocks from me. how ironic. SUX TA BE HIM. llalalalalalala anyway, i’m gettin’ off the blues now. it’s been 2 days. i’m very glad i’m not a terrorist. i wish i didn’t know where GIL TORRES lives. i gotta hankerin’ ta go see’f he’s got any home’grown tomatoes. GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ~t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are all OK a time ago: the sooner or later we will get back to our former selves, only just being more mature, human, and complete.

Response:

Hi everyone: I would suggest two things on this thread: First: we all should remember BZ’s,tranquilizers, antidepressants… chems in general, are only aids, not definitive cures.

they might not be cures, but for me, they’re total and complete relief. i figure if god made the guy that made the things, they’re as viable as insulin to a diabetic and i’m NOT going to discontinue their use until i get in the mood to eliminate another of my 8 medications. my last medication, in fact. i’ve done all the work to know myself, from whence i come, from where my disorders originate, etc. my therapy is done, in the big picture. panic disorder is not an "issue" for me, but an illness. It is an illness I will conquer when I get in the mood. I’m pretty worn out from conquering the others, and I still have a way to go in the "taking on another challenge" arena. I’m going to get my life re-established in the "creative" and "financial" environent before i take on panic. and I’m going to take on the psychiatric community and the medical community in synchronization with my next career move. I just HAVE to have a soap box, you know?

My panic is physical, and inherited. The way to my salvation from it requires a total lifestyle change that I am not ready for yet. In the meantime, I’m going to eat benzos for breakfast, lunch, supper, and possibly "high tea". I know it is easy to say and pretty difficult to do (I do take a pretty amount of valium myself), but through my own experiencie I would positively say it is the only way to go. Please, don’t take this assesment wrong: DON’T DISCONTINUE bz’s or whatever chem you are in abrutously. There is no need to, and sometimes they are the best solution possible until circumstances change.

WOW ! You just said what I said, with much more flair. thank you. Most people don’t understand me or care to, and discount me incredibly. I look at that, because I look at everything that effects my life. by the same token, i totally understand what it is going to take to put the bullet in this last little slice of hell, and I will do so…. in time. Thanks, Dr. Love ! ~tanya

Response:

Could it have been Klonopin (generic Clonazepam)? smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

Response:

It’s the same thing I was just prescribed since my Xanax doesn’t last as long. It’s called Klonopin……and the generic is something with a C…it’s supposed to last 12 hours in your system. Read my post titled Question for Gary. By the way, it has helped me so much I’ve never felt this good in a very long time. I am much calmer with my kids, one of which has extreme ADHD and ODD and is only 6 1/2 years old. I’m just a much "nicer" person to be around now. Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

Response:

I’m sure you mean Klonopin, a long acxting Benzodiazepine (whereas Xanax is a short acting one – although we now have Xanax XR which works for a long time). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Klonopin, Aka, in my area of the world, is Rivotril. But in my experience over the last 10 years, it IS stronger. I haven’t been prescribed it since I was 15. When I needed an anti-anxiety, they would not even consider Rivotril. I am 30 now. My husband has been prescribed Rivotril daily and Ativan as needed for his OCD, just last week as they are now looking for how to treat his PTSD (from the shit I put him through with my borderline personality disorder over the last 12 years).

Response:

My husband has been prescribed Rivotril daily and Ativan as needed for his OCD, just last week as they are now looking for how to treat his PTSD (from the shit I put him through with my borderline personality disorder over the last 12 years).

that makes sense. sucking another into your average, mediocre life. blame yer borderline personality, whadda cop-out. oooooooooooooooooooh sister, let’s go down, let’s go down, c’mon down.. OOOOOOOOOH SISTER, LET’S GO DOWN….. down to tha river’n pray.

Response:

Hi everyone: I would suggest two things on this thread: First: we all should remember BZ’s,tranquilizers, antidepressants… chems in general, are only aids, not definitive cures. They work for a while, but in the meantime it is useful to try (not that you MUST) to solve or undersstand the underlying problem which is leading us to take them. I know it is easy to say and pretty difficult to do (I do take a pretty amount of valium myself), but through my own experiencie I would positively say it is the only way to go. Please, don’t take this assesment wrong: DON’T DISCONTINUE bz’s or whatever chem you are in abrutously. There is no need to, and sometimes they are the best solution possible until circumstances change. Second: for a detailed information about BZ’s, the best source is undoubtely the Asthon Manual, located at http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm Simple, easy to read info about almost every family of benzodiacepinic mollecules are there, as well as a pretty handy table with their half life and the lasting of their different metabolites on your body, and an aproximated compared equivalence dosage between them (but remember it is only aproximated, and every single chemical mollecule, even belonging to the same family has a wide different objective and subjective effects on yoour body, so do not switch randomly without medical advise). There are too, serious and scientifical guidelines in case you wish to withdraw or reduce dosages.

Response:

Imipramine ?

admin — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Anyone on Imipramine? Can you tell me if it was easy to wean onto? Did you get constipation all the time? Can I switch over to it while taking Effexor XR without weaning off the Effexor? TIA I’m in bad shape today. :-( Love, Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Di. I had Imipramine for a couple of months. I found it about average to wean onto – nothing special in that regard. It gave me a sore throat and some constipation but nothing terrible. My legs got a bit wobbly too. I don’t think it’s such a good idea to take 2 A/Ds at the same time without asking your doc if it is ok though. I’m sorry you are having a bad day – you should feel better soon. I will send you some positive vibes!! — _TJ_

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone on Imipramine? Can you tell me if it was easy to wean onto? Did you get constipation all the time? Can I switch over to it while taking Effexor XR without weaning off the Effexor? TIA I’m in bad shape today. :-( Love, Di Hi Di. I had Imipramine for a couple of months. I found it about average to wean onto – nothing special in that regard. It gave me a sore throat and some constipation but nothing terrible. My legs got a bit wobbly too. I don’t think it’s such a good idea to take 2 A/Ds at the same time without asking your doc if it is ok though. I’m sorry you are having a bad day – you should feel better soon. I will send you some positive vibes!! — _TJ_

Thank you TJ. Yes, I will ask my doc. I probably need to wean off of the Effexor before trying Imipramine. So the wean onto it wasn’t that bad? Hugs, Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone on Imipramine? Can you tell me if it was easy to wean onto? Did you get constipation all the time? Can I switch over to it while taking Effexor XR without weaning off the Effexor? TIA I’m in bad shape today. :-( Love, Di Hey Di, Sorry to hear you are having a bad day. I have been having a rough week, so you are not alone. Looking up Imipramine, one of the *possible* side-effects is constipation, I guess it will depend on the person. As far as switching over from Effexor, you should talk to psychiatrist about that. My father switched from using Pamelor(a TCA like Imipramine) for 15+ years to Effexor (not XR) with really no issues. He stayed with Effexor for about 5 years and recently switched back to Pamelor again with no real issues. Why are you having a bad day? Depressed? Anxious? Let us know and we can talk it over here on the list. Best, JimD

Thanks Jim. I really appreciate it. My GP wanted me to add an extra 37.5 mgs. at night on top of the 150 mgs. in the a.m. I did that for 3 nights and ended up with a lot of nausea. For the past two nights I haven’t taken the extra, but still had nausea worse this morning than a few days ago. There aren’t anymore meds I can take. Can’t take SSRI’s because I get migraines and need to take Zomig, or any triptan. The wean onto Desipramine was horrible and I don’t want to go through that again. They don’t have Cymbalta in Canada yet. I can’t WAIT for them to get it. I have an 800 number to call Eli Lilly tomorrow to see if they know when Canada might pick it up. Then that’s the med I’ll try. But in the meantime, I’m thinking of getting off of Effexor XR and trying Imipramine. I just want to hear that the weaning onto it is easy. :-) Hugs, Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

He’s okay, but my pDoc is farther away and I just saw him yesterday. I only see him once a month. Easier to see my GP. I felt fine yesterday except for a little nausea. Today was BIG nausea and a lot of crying. I took Effexor (not the XR) for two days, I got bad nausea as well. Zoloft and Lexapro never gave me nausea, however Paxil CR and Effexor both did.

See it’s not just me, is it. There aren’t anymore meds I can take. Can’t take SSRI’s because I get migraines and need to take Zomig, or any triptan. Have you tried *all* of the SSRI’s? Maybe a less activating one? I start Luvox tomorrow because Lexapro was just a little too stimulating for me. Luvox is supposed to be less stimulating.

I did real well on Luvox, but had to get off of it because you can’t mix SSRI’s with triptans such as Zomig for migraines. I can’t take any SSRI’s anymore. If you’re like I am, you’ll love the Luvox. The wean onto Desipramine was horrible and I don’t want to go through that again. What was bad about trying to start Desipramine? Have you tried Pamelor?

I can’t remember too much about it because it was several years ago, but I remember it being very bad. Maybe a lot of depersonalization, dizziness, couldn’t concentrate, weaving if I tried to walk, that’s all I can remember. Never tried Pamelor. They don’t have Cymbalta in Canada yet. I can’t WAIT for them to get it. I have an 800 number to call Eli Lilly tomorrow to see if they know when Canada might pick it up. Then that’s the med I’ll try. Have you ever tried Cymbalta? I haven’t heard much about it. Does it treat anxiety/panic/depression?

I’ve never tried it because I’m here and it’s not. I heard it was GREAT for all those things. That’s why I wish they would get it here in Canada. It’s so damn frustrating! But in the meantime, I’m thinking of getting off of Effexor XR and trying Imipramine. I just want to hear that the weaning onto it is easy. Have you and your doctor talked about the MOAI’s? They are older and require a strict diet, but I have read they can be just as good as the newer SSRI’s.

No, haven’t talked about those, but I think I’m too afraid of them. I also think I can’t take Zomig if I’m on that kind of med. Yes, almost positive I read that I can’t use it. Thanks for trying, Jim. :-) Hugs, Di Best, JimD

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

He’s okay, but my pDoc is farther away and I just saw him yesterday. pDoc? Is that short for primary doctor? I take it GP is general practictioner right? I need to learn the ASAPM lingo

Oh sorry Jim. It’s for psychiatrist. :-) My fault, not yours. See it’s not just me, is it. Nope. Effexor gave me my worst experience of any SSRI. I have been managing my symptoms for 10 years or so and I was proud that I had never had to go to the ER for my symptoms…. Until *EFFEXOR* (cue evil laughter now). My second day on it my symptoms were so bad I had to call 911. Oh well, I lived to tell

I’m so sorry to hear this!!! Why can’t anyone make these damn AD’s easier to be on. It makes me so mad. I did real well on Luvox, but had to get off of it because you can’t mix SSRI’s with triptans such as Zomig for migraines. I can’t take any SSRI’s anymore. If you’re like I am, you’ll love the Luvox. How is like you? I have anxiety, panic, depression and mild racing/negative thoughts. I am really hoping Luvox will be the one for me to let me have at least a year or more of good management, though of course I am hoping for many years!

Well, I have ag, depression, anxiety and panic disorder (attacks) and PTSD with other physical disorders. I wish you the very best on it. It was an easy wean on and off for me. I can’t remember too much about it because it was several years ago, but I remember it being very bad. Maybe a lot of depersonalization, dizziness, couldn’t concentrate, weaving if I tried to walk, that’s all I can remember. Well I hope Imipramine will be the ticket for you!

I hope so too. Thanks Jim. Never tried Pamelor. Pamelor is a TCA, the same class as Imipramine. Just another one to look into if imipramine is not the right one for you.

I’ll definitely keep it in mind. I’ve never tried it because I’m here and it’s not. I heard it was GREAT for all those things. That’s why I wish they would get it here in Canada. It’s so damn frustrating! Ah, OK I just looked it up on Google. Cymbalta is an SSNRI like Effexor. Have you or anyone heard of the withdrawal symtoms of Cymbalta? I found out Effexor can be nasty for some people, I wonder if all SSNRI’s are?

I don’t really know anything about Cymbalta, but if you ask here, someone will tell you for sure. I called Eli Lilly just now (in Canada) and they have no idea when it will be available here. No, haven’t talked about those, but I think I’m too afraid of them. I also think I can’t take Zomig if I’m on that kind of med. Yes, almost positive I read that I can’t use it. Thanks for trying, Jim. :-) Wow, you must get *really* bad migraines Is Zomig the only med that works for you?

I get migraines a lot and they are so debilitating. I can use any of the triptans, Zomig, Imitrex, Maxalt. I also have to be very careful not to take three of any headaches meds within 5-7 days or I get rebound migraines. Ugh! JimD

Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

What is the cause of your panic and anxiety?

admin — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else — _TJ_

Response:

Everything except for d. :-) Hugs, Di

Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from? I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everything except for d. :-) Hugs, Di Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from? I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else — Everything excluding F. LJ The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

It’s an interesting speculation, unfortunately the cause of many things doesn’t really give rise to their solution. If you don’t know how to fix your inoperative car sitting in the driveway, all the diagnostic skill in the world as to the "cause" of the problem is useless, because you still can’t fix it, unless you know how. Problems in childhood obviously can’t be "fixed" – they are in the past. The way we respond to our memory of them can be fixed, which is usually accomplished via therapy. Stress in adulthood can definitely sometimes be fixed, but can be just as definitely immutable in other situations. Again, our response to it is the germane issue, taught in therapy and sometimes mitigated/mediated with medications as well. Genetic causes: If, tomorrow, they were to come straight out to the public and say "without any doubt, genetic defect is absolutely positively the cause of panic and other anxiety disorders" it would be interesting, but the problem would be that we don’t really know how to "fix" that problem yet. Substance abuse can only be fixed by stopping the behavior. If it happened in the past, it’s been postulated many times that, in the absence of a disorder, substance abuse is not implicated in the development of an anxiety disorder. I personally am not sure if I agree with that or not, but that is what most researchers feel at present. There is a huge and growing body of evidence to suggest genetic cause. My personal take on it is answer "e". While it is true that knowing the cause of a symptom is often key in getting rid of it, via eliminating the underlying cause, it does involved "doing" something. E.G. If someone is coughing because they have pneumonia, failure to know the cause (the pneumonia, discovered by chest x-ray, other examination findings such as temperature, lung sounds, possibly sputum culture) would result in failure to get rid of the symptoms well, if the physician only gave cough syrup and didn’t know of/treat the pneumonia with antibiotics. On the other hand, right now, full knowledge of the cause of someone’s anxiety will give rise (sometimes) to a treatment plan, but is often "difficult", so requires considerable effort on the part of the treated patient to do the treatment plan….. Even the pneumonia patient has to actually "take" the antibiotics, just like the psych patient has to "do" the therapy, or take his meds, or both. I guess I’m just more into treatment than cause, despite knowing that both have value. gary Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from? I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else — _TJ_

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

a, b, c, f smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

In my case, it would be mainly (a) and (b). I’m not sure if genetics applies in my case, I only take prescription drugs and I only drink occasionally. My job is somewhat stressful. I work in news, and I often have to view news footage involving violence. I think not taking a vacation for two years (I have one scheduled for next month) and being jealous of others who are more successful may also play a role. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

All of the above, but I must say that *most* of the drug and alcohol abuse was due to self medicating for the anxiety. Too bad it backfired on me and made everything worse in the long run. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

For me I would say a (partly), b (definitely) and c (most definitely) I was teetotal until the age of about 23 (which was after my illness started), have never taken illegal drugs and only had a fortnight or so on Valium after I started with my agoraphobia, so d doesn’t figure. Whereas there is family history of anxiety type illness, which hints at c. Steve. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"_TJ_" wrote Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from? I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else

a-b-d-f Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from?

Never have ;) I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else

I’d pick e and f. I sometimes wonder if anxiety disorders are caused by factors that mankind has not yet discovered or even considered. The cause of anxiety disorders is unknown. But there’s plenty of speculation. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Experts agree on the nurture/nature theory. However I believe there is always *one* root cause. For example, a solider seeing the horrors on the battlefield later suffers from PTSD. The doctors come in and say he saw a horrible explosion and that is the reason he has PTSD. They will not delve into his childhood or adulthod stress or genetics, etc too much. I would like to think that we all have suffred at some point in our life from a "trauma", an incident or incidents which triggers off anxiety. Until that "trauma" is resolved we keep going round in circles. This may be an oversimplification but that is my take. Best wishes, Sunil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from? I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else c) I have (had) three genetically related siblings with schizophrenia. How relieved was I when I was told that I *only* had panic. Well some other stuff too but that is not important. b) Trying to help my brother to find a solution, a way of life, that did not involve his death. I failed in that. Simon

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Genetic causes: If, tomorrow, they were to come straight out to the public and say "without any doubt, genetic defect is absolutely positively the cause of panic and other anxiety disorders" it would be interesting, but the problem would be that we don’t really know how to "fix" that problem yet.

It’s more than not knowing how to fix genetically-mediated panic disorder, it’s figuring out how genes cause either susceptibility to panic or the attacks themselves. I do believe that genetics play a role in panic. My mother was on a benzodiazepine for about 15 years; another relative (one of her sisters, actually) was constantly gobbling down Ativan. My father was an alcoholic, and I suspect he may have had anxiety-related issues as well, but in the Sixties and Seventies when I was growing up, alcohol was generally how men treated their problems. Tranquilisers were always seen as a "woman’s" thing. Yet I never remember my parents ever showing any overt signs of panic. Then again, even if I had, I doubt that I would have recognized the signs for what they were. Steve — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Steve, there’s no question about it – genetics absolutely does play a role. I listened to an hour discussion, I believe the doctor’s name was Philip Nynan, I will try to find it. He spoke at a symposium in Atlanta about the discoveries made on alleles of genes, genomes, all that. It was very interesting. You sound like many, many people (including me) when you speak of your family history. Between that, and the docs’ research, it’s pretty hard to argue against genetics at this point, but unfortunately they have not reached a point where they can do a whole lot with it. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Genetic causes: If, tomorrow, they were to come straight out to the public and say "without any doubt, genetic defect is absolutely positively the cause of panic and other anxiety disorders" it would be interesting, but the problem would be that we don’t really know how to "fix" that problem yet. It’s more than not knowing how to fix genetically-mediated panic disorder, it’s figuring out how genes cause either susceptibility to panic or the attacks themselves. I do believe that genetics play a role in panic. My mother was on a benzodiazepine for about 15 years; another relative (one of her sisters, actually) was constantly gobbling down Ativan. My father was an alcoholic, and I suspect he may have had anxiety-related issues as well, but in the Sixties and Seventies when I was growing up, alcohol was generally how men treated their problems. Tranquilisers were always seen as a "woman’s" thing. Yet I never remember my parents ever showing any overt signs of panic. Then again, even if I had, I doubt that I would have recognized the signs for what they were. Steve — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t know. Possibly genetic as I have family members with anxiety disorders but none of them developed it as early as I did. My childhood was normal but had my first panic attack at 14. I used to over analyse things as a child so that may have been a trigger but I don’t focus too much on what is the original cause. My therapist taught me very early on that it wouldn’t help. It was better to focus on finding strategies to overcome it rather than keep trying to work out why. Vanessa — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you ever think about where your anxiety and panic problems stem from? I think this is a hard question to answer for many people. I’m not too sure what caused me to develop panic disorder. From the list below I’d guess I’d pick b and c. :-) a) Problems in childhood b) Stress in adulthood c) genetic causes d) drugs/alcohol abuse e) a combination of the above f) something else — _TJ_

I don’t have the vaguest clue. I’ve always been kind of a "nervous" and serious minded person, but I didn’t develop an actual disorder unti a few years ago. PD started in on me when I went back to school to finish my degree, and GAD reared it’s awful head when my mom was pronounced terminally ill. I guess maybe I fit category B — I don’t know. But I had gone through many very stressful, difficult events earlier in my life – as an adult, and didn’t have anxiety issues from any of it. Go figure. I still don’t really understand it..nor do I need to. Fact is, I have it now and I am learning to deal with it. That’s all I really care about. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Difficult question! I’ve not yet had a doctor that could give me a specific reason for my disorder. At a guess I would say ‘a’ and ‘b’ though I think ‘b’ was an outcome of ‘a’ Caz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Difficult question! I’ve not yet had a doctor that could give me a specific ::reason for my disorder. At a guess I would say ‘a’ and ‘b’ though I think ::’b’ was an outcome of ‘a’ I would say the same thing for myself as well. I do think there is a genetic component as well. Jackie ~*~"Strange, isn’t it? "Each man’s life touches so many other lives, and when he isn’t around he leaves an awful hole, doesn’t he?"~*~ ~ Clarence ~ George Bailey’s Guardian Angel from the film, "It’s a Wonderful Life" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think genetics are very important in my case. I have depressed uncles and anxious aunts. My dad cracked up in his late 20s too – same as me. I was the most nervous, worried, shyest child you could ever meet. There was no way I was going to develop into a healthy, normal adult without professional help – but that wasn’t something available to working-class Irish parents back in the 80s. Hopefully now that it is available, I can turn my life around! — _TJ_

Response:

If my anxiety is due to PTSD, then they would have to go through most of my life, starting with my earliest memories. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

However I believe there is always *one* root cause. For example, a solider seeing the horrors on the battlefield later suffers from PTSD.

And the soldier right next to him sees the same horrors and does *not* develope PTSD. Therefore, the battlefield horrors are the *trigger* (and not root cause) for some latent psychological dysfunction to become manifest. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Something scary just happened

admin — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"Steve" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Steve" wrote First of all, well handled, Deidre. You did great and even if you thought your mind was in turmoil you still managed to ask all the right questions and come to the right conclusions. Secondly, when you’re feeling in a calmer frame of mind, how about sharing what this "grounding" technique is, how it works, what you’re supposed to do? It’s a new one on me and everything helps, right? Oh, and I’d definitely call the police and make them aware of what happened so they can keep an eye out. I’m sure you weren’t the only one this guy has "visited". If everyone reports him the police will have a picture of the area he’s working. And I’d also report it to whoever is responsible for security at your complex to see if they can figure out how he got in and whether something needs improving security-wise. Well done again and hope you’re feeling calmer. Love from Steve. It’s a very simple technique — so simple I was doubtful it could actually do me any good. When you feel the anxiety/fear rising, simply look around you and name everything you see, either out loud or silently. Just name everything: cup, toothpick, printer, jar, cat, …. on and on until you feel your breathing is calmer. I think it’s somewhat related to the idea of chanting — that’s just my observation. It brings you back into a feeling of being more in control of your feelings. My therapist told me this grounding technique was developed for people with PTSD, but it works for many forms of anxiety. I hope to have myself together enough to call the police today. I’m working on it. Thanks for the support, Steve. Love Deirdre Thanks, Deidre. It’s an interesting technique, similar to distraction, where you go do something to occupy your mind or think of something else other than your anxiety so that you’re not adding to the anxiety with anxious thoughts, what ifs and misinterpretations of your symptoms.

I was reading something the other night. It said, basically, that the distraction exercise is best used as a tool to clear the immediate distress. Then you’re able to use the other tools that work for you to change your thinking — CBT, meditation, whatever. Short term effect followed by longer term effect. I read your other post and empathise with your frustration. You definitely did the right thing. Just because the police didn’t isn’t your fault. Maybe next time you could finish the call with….. "Do you take donations for the Police Fund?" "Yes" "Well, have a good day collecting. Goodbye."

LMAO!! Then again, you might want a rapid response one day!!!!

Good point. Dammit.

What I want is a peephole and a remote-controlled taser. Have a calming day and just let the experience go. You’ve done just about all you could have. This guy probably won’t be back after dealing with Dynamic Deidre!!!

I’m taking applications for Sidekick. Must be adept in at least one martial art. Looking good in tights, a plus. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I agree with Anne, Deirdre… I think it’s important to contact the police while this person is still fresh in your mind and you can identify him. They may even already have someone like that in their files… and be looking for him. You could save some other unsuspecting person(s) from harm! So glad you and your mom are okay! Take care! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deirdre, how frightening! I’ve had young men like that approach our house with the magazine-sales scam, etc. Please call the police NOW and report what happened and provide a good description of this guy. They may have a similar description on file and/or be able to keep a lookout. Do you have a chain on your apartment door? I always keep ours chained while talking to someone I don’t know at our front door. (((((Deirdre))))) Kudos on chasing the punk away. xxoo Anne

. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Ron P" wrote You handled the situation better than I would have I’m sure. Way to go. ((((((Deirdre)))))) — Ron P

Sometimes I surprise myself

Response:

"Steve" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all, well handled, Deidre. You did great and even if you thought your mind was in turmoil you still managed to ask all the right questions and come to the right conclusions. Secondly, when you’re feeling in a calmer frame of mind, how about sharing what this "grounding" technique is, how it works, what you’re supposed to do? It’s a new one on me and everything helps, right? Oh, and I’d definitely call the police and make them aware of what happened so they can keep an eye out. I’m sure you weren’t the only one this guy has "visited". If everyone reports him the police will have a picture of the area he’s working. And I’d also report it to whoever is responsible for security at your complex to see if they can figure out how he got in and whether something needs improving security-wise. Well done again and hope you’re feeling calmer. Love from Steve.

It’s a very simple technique — so simple I was doubtful it could actually do me any good. When you feel the anxiety/fear rising, simply look around you and name everything you see, either out loud or silently. Just name everything: cup, toothpick, printer, jar, cat, …. on and on until you feel your breathing is calmer. I think it’s somewhat related to the idea of chanting — that’s just my observation. It brings you back into a feeling of being more in control of your feelings. My therapist told me this grounding technique was developed for people with PTSD, but it works for many forms of anxiety. I hope to have myself together enough to call the police today. I’m working on it. Thanks for the support, Steve. Love Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"weeks" -wrote Hi, Deirdre, Wow, what a situation to have gone through but you did an excellent job. I would consider calling the police so they can be aware of the situation. Great job using your anxiety tools. smiles, Elise

Thanks, Elise – I feel pretty good about using the tools. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Doug" wrote Good job Deirdre! Some quick thinking too.

Thanks, Doug! I appreciate the support! Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Elliott" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – links to the stone age chiseled out: Something happened a few minutes ago that made me angry and scared me, and very nearly floored me with an anxiety attack. As others have pointed out, you handled the situation very well. There’s little room for ’should have / would have’ – although I know what that’s like. I’ve been a victim of armed robbery, and "if I’d only had my gun" or "if I’d only…" No, it’s over and best put out of your mind other than the usual "be careful out there"… 1. I frantically began doing the grounding exercise that my therapist taught me — just looked around me and named things: chair, table, tv, books, etc. until I could breathe better. 2. I took several slow deep breaths in and slowly out. 3. I talked about it immediately with Mom. I’m not going to talk things over with your mom (thankyouverymuch), but the ‘grounding’ exercise is something that I suppose I do, but never had it taught. I’m adding it right now to my ’stay in the present’ concept (which HAS been taught). As an aside, I’ve named things around the house in the past. Our stove’s name is Dave. — Elliott

Thanks for the good advice about ’shoulds’, etc. It’s such an easy habit to fall into. I’m sure if you wanted to talk anything over with Mom, she would be happy to be available to you. You’ll have to make an appointment. Have Dave phone her Dustbuster, Martha, to set up a time. Be here now, baybee. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Diane" wrote {{{{{Deirdre}}}}} I’m so sorry this guy scared you. Maybe you should call the police or the security guy and give them a description. You used good tools and I’ll have to remember them. I get that way too. My anxiety goes to the roof some times. And I always think about what I could’ve said or done. I think we all do that at times. Don’t punish yourself for not doing something else. Let us know if you see him around anymore. Love, Di

((((((Diane))))) That self-punishment thing has GOT to go. Maybe if I point to the gate and say GET OUT. NOW. Or some psychological equivalent. Thanks for your support. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Steve" wrote First of all, well handled, Deidre. You did great and even if you thought your mind was in turmoil you still managed to ask all the right questions and come to the right conclusions. Secondly, when you’re feeling in a calmer frame of mind, how about sharing what this "grounding" technique is, how it works, what you’re supposed to do? It’s a new one on me and everything helps, right? Oh, and I’d definitely call the police and make them aware of what happened so they can keep an eye out. I’m sure you weren’t the only one this guy has "visited". If everyone reports him the police will have a picture of the area he’s working. And I’d also report it to whoever is responsible for security at your complex to see if they can figure out how he got in and whether something needs improving security-wise. Well done again and hope you’re feeling calmer. Love from Steve. It’s a very simple technique — so simple I was doubtful it could actually do me any good. When you feel the anxiety/fear rising, simply look around you and name everything you see, either out loud or silently. Just name everything: cup, toothpick, printer, jar, cat, …. on and on until you feel your breathing is calmer. I think it’s somewhat related to the idea of chanting — that’s just my observation. It brings you back into a feeling of being more in control of your feelings. My therapist told me this grounding technique was developed for people with PTSD, but it works for many forms of anxiety. I hope to have myself together enough to call the police today. I’m working on it. Thanks for the support, Steve. Love Deirdre

Thanks, Deidre. It’s an interesting technique, similar to distraction, where you go do something to occupy your mind or think of something else other than your anxiety so that you’re not adding to the anxiety with anxious thoughts, what ifs and misinterpretations of your symptoms. I read your other post and empathise with your frustration. You definitely did the right thing. Just because the police didn’t isn’t your fault. Maybe next time you could finish the call with….. "Do you take donations for the Police Fund?" "Yes" "Well, have a good day collecting. Goodbye." Then again, you might want a rapid response one day!!!! I think someone’s suggestion of a chain on your door is a good one, though. Have a calming day and just let the experience go. You’ve done just about all you could have. This guy probably won’t be back after dealing with Dynamic Deidre!!! Love from Steve. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

First of all, well handled, Deidre. You did great and even if you thought your mind was in turmoil you still managed to ask all the right questions and come to the right conclusions. Secondly, when you’re feeling in a calmer frame of mind, how about sharing what this "grounding" technique is, how it works, what you’re supposed to do? It’s a new one on me and everything helps, right? Oh, and I’d definitely call the police and make them aware of what happened so they can keep an eye out. I’m sure you weren’t the only one this guy has "visited". If everyone reports him the police will have a picture of the area he’s working. And I’d also report it to whoever is responsible for security at your complex to see if they can figure out how he got in and whether something needs improving security-wise. Well done again and hope you’re feeling calmer. Love from Steve.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Something happened a few minutes ago that made me angry and scared me, and very nearly floored me with an anxiety attack. First, you need to know we live in an 8-unit condo building with security gates. Our doorbell rang, the one that means the person is at our door rather than outside the gate. It’s almost always either the mail carrier or a neighbor, so I answered the door without hesitation. There was this skinny kid, maybe 20 or so — wearing crappy clothes and expensive jewelry. Had the eyes of a speed freak. He said he was doing a career comparison and had been assigned to talk to 50 strangers about their careers. I told him we were both retired, and he said, "Well, that’s the best job on the block, huh." I said yes, and started to close the door, when he said, "Well it’s also a magazine subscription drive." He didn’t have anything with him, of course — no clipboard or notebook or sample case. I just shook my head and said, "We’re not buying anything. We don’t have any money." He turned around and started walking away. I realized someone must have left the gate open, so I said to Mom, "I’m going to close the gate." But when I looked, the gate was already closed. I called to him as he started to go up the stairs to another apartment, "How did you get in?" "The gate. My Dad owns this place." "No he doesn’t. These are individually owned apartments." He pointed to the building next to ours and said his Dad owns that one and this one. I repeated that he did not. Then I put on my best stern face and voice and pointed to the gate. "GET OUT. NOW." He ambled off without a word. As I went inside I heard tires squealing as a car pulled away too fast and zoomed down the street. We’d just been cased by a would-be burglar. Or worse. By the time I locked the doors behind me I was shaking from head to toe and I was breathing too fast. I sat down because I felt like I was going to fall. Here’s what helped: 1. I frantically began doing the grounding exercise that my therapist taught me — just looked around me and named things: chair, table, tv, books, etc. until I could breathe better. 2. I took several slow deep breaths in and slowly out. 3. I talked about it immediately with Mom. My pulse is still fast, and my fingers aren’t done trembling yet, but I managed to avert the worst of an attack. As it always is after things like this, I am recounting it all in my head. I started out doing it purposely so if there were burglaries I could give a description. But obsessing over it has already begun. I feel threatened. God I hate this feeling. If he’d merely been mistaken about his Dad’s ownership, he would have argued with me. Either he picked the lock on the gate or someone had left it open. Or maybe he climbed over. I don’t know. I wish I had played along. I wish I’d asked him his name just to see what kind of response I got. I wish I had had my wits about me so I could catch him in a lie. I am actually thinking now that he was shorter and skinny and I could have knocked him down and sat on him while Mom called 911

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi everyone, Something happened a few minutes ago that made me angry and scared me, and very nearly floored me with an anxiety attack. First, you need to know we live in an 8-unit condo building with security gates. Our doorbell rang, the one that means the person is at our door rather than outside the gate. It’s almost always either the mail carrier or a neighbor, so I answered the door without hesitation. There was this skinny kid, maybe 20 or so — wearing crappy clothes and expensive jewelry. Had the eyes of a speed freak. He said he was doing a career comparison and had been assigned to talk to 50 strangers about their careers. I told him we were both retired, and he said, "Well, that’s the best job on the block, huh." I said yes, and started to close the door, when he said, "Well it’s also a magazine subscription drive." He didn’t have anything with him, of course — no clipboard or notebook or sample case. I just shook my head and said, "We’re not buying anything. We don’t have any money." He turned around and started walking away. I realized someone must have left the gate open, so I said to Mom, "I’m going to close the gate." But when I looked, the gate was already closed. I called to him as he started to go up the stairs to another apartment, "How did you get in?" "The gate. My Dad owns this place." "No he doesn’t. These are individually owned apartments." He pointed to the building next to ours and said his Dad owns that one and this one. I repeated that he did not. Then I put on my best stern face and voice and pointed to the gate. "GET OUT. NOW." He ambled off without a word. As I went inside I heard tires squealing as a car pulled away too fast and zoomed down the street. We’d just been cased by a would-be burglar. Or worse. By the time I locked the doors behind me I was shaking from head to toe and I was breathing too fast. I sat down because I felt like I was going to fall. Here’s what helped: 1. I frantically began doing the grounding exercise that my therapist taught me — just looked around me and named things: chair, table, tv, books, etc. until I could breathe better. 2. I took several slow deep breaths in and slowly out. 3. I talked about it immediately with Mom. My pulse is still fast, and my fingers aren’t done trembling yet, but I managed to avert the worst of an attack. As it always is after things like this, I am recounting it all in my head. I started out doing it purposely so if there were burglaries I could give a description. But obsessing over it has already begun. I feel threatened. God I hate this feeling. If he’d merely been mistaken about his Dad’s ownership, he would have argued with me. Either he picked the lock on the gate or someone had left it open. Or maybe he climbed over. I don’t know. I wish I had played along. I wish I’d asked him his name just to see what kind of response I got. I wish I had had my wits about me so I could catch him in a lie. I am actually thinking now that he was shorter and skinny and I could have knocked him down and sat on him while Mom called 911

Response:

I think you handled it well, Deirdre. Chip

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Deirdre, how frightening! I’ve had young men like that approach our house with the magazine-sales scam, etc. Please call the police NOW and report what happened and provide a good description of this guy. They may have a similar description on file and/or be able to keep a lookout. Do you have a chain on your apartment door? I always keep ours chained while talking to someone I don’t know at our front door. (((((Deirdre))))) Kudos on chasing the punk away. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Something happened a few minutes ago that made me angry and scared me, and very nearly floored me with an anxiety attack. First, you need to know we live in an 8-unit condo building with security gates. Our doorbell rang, the one that means the person is at our door rather than outside the gate. It’s almost always either the mail carrier or a neighbor, so I answered the door without hesitation. There was this skinny kid, maybe 20 or so — wearing crappy clothes and expensive jewelry. Had the eyes of a speed freak. He said he was doing a career comparison and had been assigned to talk to 50 strangers about their careers. I told him we were both retired, and he said, "Well, that’s the best job on the block, huh." I said yes, and started to close the door, when he said, "Well it’s also a magazine subscription drive." He didn’t have anything with him, of course — no clipboard or notebook or sample case. I just shook my head and said, "We’re not buying anything. We don’t have any money." He turned around and started walking away. I realized someone must have left the gate open, so I said to Mom, "I’m going to close the gate." But when I looked, the gate was already closed. I called to him as he started to go up the stairs to another apartment, "How did you get in?" "The gate. My Dad owns this place." "No he doesn’t. These are individually owned apartments." He pointed to the building next to ours and said his Dad owns that one and this one. I repeated that he did not. Then I put on my best stern face and voice and pointed to the gate. "GET OUT. NOW." He ambled off without a word. As I went inside I heard tires squealing as a car pulled away too fast and zoomed down the street. We’d just been cased by a would-be burglar. Or worse. By the time I locked the doors behind me I was shaking from head to toe and I was breathing too fast. I sat down because I felt like I was going to fall. Here’s what helped: 1. I frantically began doing the grounding exercise that my therapist taught me — just looked around me and named things: chair, table, tv, books, etc. until I could breathe better. 2. I took several slow deep breaths in and slowly out. 3. I talked about it immediately with Mom. My pulse is still fast, and my fingers aren’t done trembling yet, but I managed to avert the worst of an attack. As it always is after things like this, I am recounting it all in my head. I started out doing it purposely so if there were burglaries I could give a description. But obsessing over it has already begun. I feel threatened. God I hate this feeling. If he’d merely been mistaken about his Dad’s ownership, he would have argued with me. Either he picked the lock on the gate or someone had left it open. Or maybe he climbed over. I don’t know. I wish I had played along. I wish I’d asked him his name just to see what kind of response I got. I wish I had had my wits about me so I could catch him in a lie. I am actually thinking now that he was shorter and skinny and I could have knocked him down and sat on him while Mom called 911

((((((((((((((Deirdre)))))))))))))))) What a horrible, awful, scary experience!! If it gives you any comfort, I seriously doubt that guy will be back to your area…because you saw him. He knows he can be identified, and you called him on what he was doing. You ran him off. Burglurs don’t like situations like that.. And if you’re still feeling uneasy, call the police and tell them what happened. If you do, they may patrol your area for a few days to watch out for this guy. Up that Klonopin! After an experience like that, you are apt to have rebound panic attacks. I know I do, after something extremely stressful. You took care of yourself in a couple of ways. You not only ran off a bad guy, but you handled your anxiety as well. Be sure and give yourself credit for doing that, and don’t minimalize it, and don’t go into that "I should have" mode. Forget the "shoulds". They are not healthy, and besides, you can’t change the past. Just try not to worry (worry does NOTHING except make YOU feel bad..it accomplishes NOTHING) and be glad the situation didn’t become something that you couldn’t handle. You DID handle it, and I think you handled it a lot better than I would have. WTG kiddo. You did GOOD. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Deirdre, You are a very smart, brave woman. This was a potentially dangerous situation and yet you kept your head. Bravo for you. The exercises you mentioned seem to work beautifully for you too. You should also congratulate yourself. Love Cathy

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, Wow, what a situation to have gone through but you did an excellent job. I would consider calling the police so they can be aware of the situation. Great job using your anxiety tools. smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"A" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deirdre, how frightening! I’ve had young men like that approach our house with the magazine-sales scam, etc. Please call the police NOW and report what happened and provide a good description of this guy. They may have a similar description on file and/or be able to keep a lookout. Do you have a chain on your apartment door? I always keep ours chained while talking to someone I don’t know at our front door. (((((Deirdre))))) Kudos on chasing the punk away. xxoo Anne

Thanks, Anne. Our ’screen’ door is more like solid metal with small air holes (not sure how to describe it), and it’s got a deadbolt that we keep locked, so talking through that is comparatively safe. I want to call the police about him. What sucks is I get terribly anxious around police. I will have to go through the whole process of challenging thoughts, etc., before I call them. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a horrible, awful, scary experience!! If it gives you any comfort, I seriously doubt that guy will be back to your area…because you saw him. He knows he can be identified, and you called him on what he was doing. You ran him off. Burglurs don’t like situations like that.. And if you’re still feeling uneasy, call the police and tell them what happened. If you do, they may patrol your area for a few days to watch out for this guy. Up that Klonopin! After an experience like that, you are apt to have rebound panic attacks. I know I do, after something extremely stressful. You took care of yourself in a couple of ways. You not only ran off a bad guy, but you handled your anxiety as well. Be sure and give yourself credit for doing that, and don’t minimalize it, and don’t go into that "I should have" mode. Forget the "shoulds". They are not healthy, and besides, you can’t change the past. Just try not to worry (worry does NOTHING except make YOU feel bad..it accomplishes NOTHING) and be glad the situation didn’t become something that you couldn’t handle. You DID handle it, and I think you handled it a lot better than I would have. WTG kiddo. You did GOOD. Love, Sally

He knows I got a very good look at him, I heard him speak so I know the sound. I’m trying to get up the courage to call the police. I suppose it would have been better to call them last night. I hope they will take the info over the phone, rather than sending a uniformed officer here. It would be easier on my nerves (oh Deirdre, what a wimp

Response:

"Chip" wrote I think you handled it well, Deirdre. Chip

Thanks, Chip :-) I surprised myself

Response:

Thank you, Cathy! When I feel that anxiety, my monkey mind calls me a scaredy-cat. Thank you for reminding me I can be brave. Love, Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

{{{{{Deirdre}}}}} I’m so sorry this guy scared you. Maybe you should call the police or the security guy and give them a description. You used good tools and I’ll have to remember them. I get that way too. My anxiety goes to the roof some times. And I always think about what I could’ve said or done. I think we all do that at times. Don’t punish yourself for not doing something else. Let us know if you see him around anymore. Love, Di

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Good job Deirdre! Some quick thinking too. — there is no .sig

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

You handled the situation better than I would have I’m sure. Way to go. ((((((Deirdre)))))) — Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Another anxious day

admin — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I don’t know why but I’ve been really anxious these past few days. I can teach my class (and even stand up in front of them and draw diagrams on the whiteboard [which I never used to be able to do]), but all the paperwork BS at the college is making me anxious. I felt really hurried trying to get all this BS paperwork done and I’m sure it showed. I was rude to someone at the college. I’m planning on apologizing to her, in person, next week. I figure an email apology isn’t much of an apology. Hope everyone has a calm, collected weekend (it’s Friday morning here in Los Angeles).

I teach at the local community college and agree that a face-to-face apology is the way to go. Try to keep it light and maybe say you were having an unusually rough day and she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the paperwork finally got to you.. Don’t worry too much about it. We think the other person is thinking about what we said to them, when often they’ve forgotten about it. It will all work out. Hang in there. And yeah, the paperwork is BS. Sheldon — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::(dealing with PTSD rage on Friday afternoon in San Diego) I`m sorry to hear this. Are you doing better today? I hope so. (((((Deirdre))))) Jackie ~*~There are two ways of meeting difficulties: you alter the difficulties or you alter yourself meeting them~*~ ~~Phyllis Bottome — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Jacqueline" wrote ::(dealing with PTSD rage on Friday afternoon in San Diego) I`m sorry to hear this. Are you doing better today? I hope so. (((((Deirdre))))) Jackie

Hi Jackie, I was feeling a lot better by the time I went to sleep last night, but I woke up this morning with some anxiety poking at me. I’m going to tell a short version of something that happened to me 37 years ago. I need to post a warning first — I will be talking about sexual assault and the resulting emotional disorders, but I will refrain from any graphic descriptions. So if anyone feels they can’t deal with reading it today, stop here. # # # # # # # # # Okay. When I was 15 I went on my first "car date" with a guy named Jim. He was 18 and went to a different high school in my hometown. He said we were going to go bowling but we never got there. He parked in an uninhabited area where there were other cars parked. We were making out and I thought I was the luckiest girl alive — he was so handsome, and I was a chubby brainiac with glasses. But he pushed me down and raped me. Didn’t matter that I kept saying no. He called me a lot of accusatory names, making me believe it was my fault. He hurt me badly, and humiliated me, and then dropped me. I didn’t tell anyone about it for many years. I found out this week that he lives about 2 hours from me. Keep in mind, I moved halfway across the continent. Turns out, he did too. There’s nothing to be read in that — lots of Iowans defected to California. Anyway, knowing he was alive and not far away brought up huge wells of rage and fear that made me want to do him major harm. Which, in turn, made me feel physically ill to the point where I could not drive to my therapy appointment. I called Gauri (my therapist) and after I told her what was going on we had our session on the phone. She asked a lot of diagnostic questions and said it sounds like PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the web about PTSD yesterday I completely agree. Since the rape, I have had major depression, occasionally suicidal (not for many years, I’m glad to report), compulsive overeating, substance abuse, my tendency to be quickly startled or angered, and a long line of unhealthy relationships. And, of course, the increasing anxiety over the last couple of years. My history, plus my detailed memories of the rape that, once remembered play over and over in my head, plus my terrible reaction to knowing where he is — all lead to the diagnosis of PTSD. Gauri and I will be using a new kind of CBT based on a book called "Seeking Safety". If anyone knows about this, I’d love to hear from you, either on the board or in email. What makes this new as I understand it, is that PTSD and substance abuse used to be treated as separate problems, and this therapy treats them together. I haven’t done any dangerous drugs for many years, but the fact that I went through years of it means substance abuse is in me. Anyway, there we are. That’s why I answered the unofficial QOTD about opposite sex issues the way I did — I was in the middle of madness. After a couple of klonopin, a long nap in the afternoon, and an easy dinner, I felt much better last night. Today I still have the headache that came on a couple of days ago, and I’m trying to use breathing exercises to fend off the creeping anxiety. This is not a situation that will go away in a short time. It pisses me off that something that happened so long ago is now disrupting my life. I thought I had worked it all through in therapy in the last 10 years or so. But the rage has been bubbling just under the surface for a long time, and now it’s coming out and I’m trying very hard not to be a pain in the patootie to people around me. I didn’t want to tell Mom about this current upsurge, but she was worried so I emphasized the optimism I feel about therapy. Well, this was long. Anyway, you all now know what I’m in the middle of right now. Thanks for reading. Love to all Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"stepdawn" wrote

Thank you so much for your sympathetic support. I am SO sorry you had that happen to you. I don’t know what to tell you about seeking therapy specifically regarding your rape. Some women can grow past it and get on with life. Others can’t. I don’t remember if you’re getting regular therapy now or not, but if you are, you might just talk to your therapist about it and see how you feel. I do know that PTSD can erupt any time after the trauma. Maybe an ounce of prevention? Only you can decide this. I will report my progress as necessary. I think it could be scary for me, but I have to learn to deal with this. (((((((((Dawn)))))))) Love Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, No, I really haven’t taken any time to see anything good about me. I feel so worn out that it’s takes so much energy to just get off the couch today. I’ll try to say some nice and reassuring things to myself. Anything to make it through this day… smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you so much, Elise. And I’m sorry to read in the ‘melt down’ thread that you’re having a bad time right now. Meds changes are sometimes so rocky. I hope your adjustment and improvement come quickly. I always look forward to your "smiles" signoff — have you tried smiling at yourself in the mirror? Really look into your own eyes and think reassuring thoughts, and smile until you feel it deep down. I appreciate you so much. (((Elise))) Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jacqueline" wrote ::(dealing with PTSD rage on Friday afternoon in San Diego) I`m sorry to hear this. Are you doing better today? I hope so. (((((Deirdre))))) Jackie Hi Jackie, I was feeling a lot better by the time I went to sleep last night, but I woke up this morning with some anxiety poking at me. I’m going to tell a short version of something that happened to me 37 years ago. I need to post a warning first — I will be talking about sexual assault and the resulting emotional disorders, but I will refrain from any graphic descriptions. So if anyone feels they can’t deal with reading it today, stop here. # # # # # # # # # Okay. When I was 15 I went on my first "car date" with a guy named Jim. He was 18 and went to a different high school in my hometown. He said we were going to go bowling but we never got there. He parked in an uninhabited area where there were other cars parked. We were making out and I thought I was the luckiest girl alive — he was so handsome, and I was a chubby brainiac with glasses. But he pushed me down and raped me. Didn’t matter that I kept saying no. He called me a lot of accusatory names, making me believe it was my fault. He hurt me badly, and humiliated me, and then dropped me. I didn’t tell anyone about it for many years. I found out this week that he lives about 2 hours from me. Keep in mind, I moved halfway across the continent. Turns out, he did too. There’s nothing to be read in that — lots of Iowans defected to California. Anyway, knowing he was alive and not far away brought up huge wells of rage and fear that made me want to do him major harm. Which, in turn, made me feel physically ill to the point where I could not drive to my therapy appointment. I called Gauri (my therapist) and after I told her what was going on we had our session on the phone. She asked a lot of diagnostic questions and said it sounds like PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the web about PTSD yesterday I completely agree. Since the rape, I have had major depression, occasionally suicidal (not for many years, I’m glad to report), compulsive overeating, substance abuse, my tendency to be quickly startled or angered, and a long line of unhealthy relationships. And, of course, the increasing anxiety over the last couple of years. My history, plus my detailed memories of the rape that, once remembered play over and over in my head, plus my terrible reaction to knowing where he is — all lead to the diagnosis of PTSD. Gauri and I will be using a new kind of CBT based on a book called "Seeking Safety". If anyone knows about this, I’d love to hear from you, either on the board or in email. What makes this new as I understand it, is that PTSD and substance abuse used to be treated as separate problems, and this therapy treats them together. I haven’t done any dangerous drugs for many years, but the fact that I went through years of it means substance abuse is in me. Anyway, there we are. That’s why I answered the unofficial QOTD about opposite sex issues the way I did — I was in the middle of madness. After a couple of klonopin, a long nap in the afternoon, and an easy dinner, I felt much better last night. Today I still have the headache that came on a couple of days ago, and I’m trying to use breathing exercises to fend off the creeping anxiety. This is not a situation that will go away in a short time. It pisses me off that something that happened so long ago is now disrupting my life. I thought I had worked it all through in therapy in the last 10 years or so. But the rage has been bubbling just under the surface for a long time, and now it’s coming out and I’m trying very hard not to be a pain in the patootie to people around me. I didn’t want to tell Mom about this current upsurge, but she was worried so I emphasized the optimism I feel about therapy. Well, this was long. Anyway, you all now know what I’m in the middle of right now. Thanks for reading. Love to all Deirdre

Deirdre, I am so very sorry that this awful thing happened to you. You are very brave to face your fears and begin working on this, braver than I am. I also had a similar situation happen to me at 15–with two boys 18, and 20. I have always denied that it bothered me. Your post makes me wonder if that is the best approach, even if I am not feeling overtly traumatized. Please keep us updated on this therapy and how it works. I think you have every right to feel angry and I hope that you find the healing you need and deserve. Please don’t hesitate to contact me off the group anytime you need to talk. ((((((((((((Deirdre)))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Philip Peters" wrote

I do love your optimism, Philip. You’re very encouraging. ((( Philip ))) D. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Philip Peters" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – happen to anyone. But it happens ALL the time. I didn’t really identify this as rape at the time — he really convinced me it was my fault. But a few years passed and as the truth about rape and rapists became more accessible and more talked-about, I realized that was exactly what this was. I said NO and he did it anyway. That’s rape. Oh yes, it is. I know I have the option of bring a civil suit against him, but honestly I don’t know if I could afford both the attorney’s fees AND the emotional distress. I hope therapy can help me dilute this rage, avoid it, something — it’s really eating at me right now. Love, D. The past has already happened and you can’t change it. But you *can* change the way you look at it, the way you’re dealing with it. And that is *here and now* and solution-oriented. It’s very easy to completely understand and emphatize with your rage and grief but a *good* CB-therapy will teach you how to handle this. Philip

Thank you, Philip. I appreciate your support and optimism very much. I am hoping therapy will help me find a solution other than revenge. It’s been the desire for revenge that has fueled my rage, and since rage is unhealthy for me, it follows that I must find something other than revenge to get me feeling better again. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"weeks" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ((((((Deirdre) I’m glad that you are feeling a bit better by now. That was wonderful that your therapist was willing to have the session over the phone. Sounds like you probably really needed to talk at that time. How awful this situation was for you. I understand why you responded the way you did with the unofficial QOTD. When I read your response I sort of figured there was more to the question that you asked. I hope you benefit much from this therapy you will be receiving. I’ve never heard of this book "Seeking Safety" but hope you are able to gain much from its contents. Please keep us updated on how it goes for you… smiles, Elise

Thank you so much, Elise. And I’m sorry to read in the ‘melt down’ thread that you’re having a bad time right now. Meds changes are sometimes so rocky. I hope your adjustment and improvement come quickly. I always look forward to your "smiles" signoff — have you tried smiling at yourself in the mirror? Really look into your own eyes and think reassuring thoughts, and smile until you feel it deep down. I appreciate you so much. (((Elise))) Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

{{{{{{{Deirdre}}}}}}} I had a similar situation when I was 14. Raped by three boys I knew. I also have PTSD. My old pDoc thinks that I bottled it up and went on with my life. He said it had to come out some way, some how, and it finally did in 1984. I haven’t told anyone about the rape either so no one was ever arrested. I hope you can work through this with your therapist. I know how you feel.

Di, have you ever worked on this systematically with a *good* CB-therapist (who possibly also uses EMDR)? It may be responsible for most of your panic/anxiety. 14 years old and raped by three boys… it beggars belief. One wonders how rapists can live with themselves. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

((((((Deirdre) I’m glad that you are feeling a bit better by now. That was wonderful that your therapist was willing to have the session over the phone. Sounds like you probably really needed to talk at that time. How awful this situation was for you. I understand why you responded the way you did with the unofficial QOTD. When I read your response I sort of figured there was more to the question that you asked. I hope you benefit much from this therapy you will be receiving. I’ve never heard of this book "Seeking Safety" but hope you are able to gain much from its contents. Please keep us updated on how it goes for you… smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay. When I was 15 I went on my first "car date" with a guy named Jim. He was 18 and went to a different high school in my hometown. He said we were going to go bowling but we never got there. He parked in an uninhabited area where there were other cars parked. We were making out and I thought I was the luckiest girl alive — he was so handsome, and I was a chubby brainiac with glasses. But he pushed me down and raped me. Didn’t matter that I kept saying no. He called me a lot of accusatory names, making me believe it was my fault. He hurt me badly, and humiliated me, and then dropped me. I didn’t tell anyone about it for many years. I found out this week that he lives about 2 hours from me. Keep in mind, I moved halfway across the continent. Turns out, he did too. There’s nothing to be read in that — lots of Iowans defected to California. Anyway, knowing he was alive and not far away brought up huge wells of rage and fear that made me want to do him major harm. Which, in turn, made me feel physically ill to the point where I could not drive to my therapy appointment. I called Gauri (my therapist) and after I told her what was going on we had our session on the phone. She asked a lot of diagnostic questions and said it sounds like PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the web about PTSD yesterday I completely agree. Since the rape, I have had major depression, occasionally suicidal (not for many years, I’m glad to report), compulsive overeating, substance abuse, my tendency to be quickly startled or angered, and a long line of unhealthy relationships. And, of course, the increasing anxiety over the last couple of years. My history, plus my detailed memories of the rape that, once remembered play over and over in my head, plus my terrible reaction to knowing where he is — all lead to the diagnosis of PTSD. Gauri and I will be using a new kind of CBT based on a book called "Seeking Safety". If anyone knows about this, I’d love to hear from you, either on the board or in email. What makes this new as I understand it, is that PTSD and substance abuse used to be treated as separate problems, and this therapy treats them together. I haven’t done any dangerous drugs for many years, but the fact that I went through years of it means substance abuse is in me. Anyway, there we are. That’s why I answered the unofficial QOTD about opposite sex issues the way I did — I was in the middle of madness. After a couple of klonopin, a long nap in the afternoon, and an easy dinner, I felt much better last night. Today I still have the headache that came on a couple of days ago, and I’m trying to use breathing exercises to fend off the creeping anxiety. This is not a situation that will go away in a short time. It pisses me off that something that happened so long ago is now disrupting my life. I thought I had worked it all through in therapy in the last 10 years or so. But the rage has been bubbling just under the surface for a long time, and now it’s coming out and I’m trying very hard not to be a pain in the patootie to people around me. I didn’t want to tell Mom about this current upsurge, but she was worried so I emphasized the optimism I feel about therapy. Well, this was long. Anyway, you all now know what I’m in the middle of right now. Thanks for reading. Love to all Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I can imagine that this whole thing is most disconcerting. It’s as if the past intruded into the present to haunt you. On the upside this may become a blessing in disguise as you can now work on your PTSD (cognitive therapy *and* some of that mysterious EMDR, somehow it often works for PTSD). I am not familiar with the book you mentionYou may just come out of this better than you went into it. (((Deirdre))) Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

It should never happen to anyone. But it happens ALL the time. I didn’t really identify this as rape at the time — he really convinced me it was my fault. But a few years passed and as the truth about rape and rapists became more accessible and more talked-about, I realized that was exactly what this was. I said NO and he did it anyway. That’s rape.

Oh yes, it is. I know I have the option of bring a civil suit against him, but honestly I don’t know if I could afford both the attorney’s fees AND the emotional distress. I hope therapy can help me dilute this rage, avoid it, something — it’s really eating at me right now. Love, D.

The past has already happened and you can’t change it. But you *can* change the way you look at it, the way you’re dealing with it. And that is *here and now* and solution-oriented. It’s very easy to completely understand and emphatize with your rage and grief but a *good* CB-therapy will teach you how to handle this. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Diane" wrote

((((((((Diane))))))) This shouldn’t have happened to you. It should never happen to anyone. But it happens ALL the time. I didn’t really identify this as rape at the time — he really convinced me it was my fault. But a few years passed and as the truth about rape and rapists became more accessible and more talked-about, I realized that was exactly what this was. I said NO and he did it anyway. That’s rape. I know I have the option of bring a civil suit against him, but honestly I don’t know if I could afford both the attorney’s fees AND the emotional distress. I hope therapy can help me dilute this rage, avoid it, something — it’s really eating at me right now. Love, D. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"Jacqueline" wrote

Thank you so much, Jackie. I think I just wanted everybody to understand that I’m not on steady ground much of the time these days. Just in case I start acting even LOONIER than usual

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jacqueline" wrote ::(dealing with PTSD rage on Friday afternoon in San Diego) I`m sorry to hear this. Are you doing better today? I hope so. (((((Deirdre))))) Jackie Hi Jackie, I was feeling a lot better by the time I went to sleep last night, but I woke up this morning with some anxiety poking at me. I’m going to tell a short version of something that happened to me 37 years ago. I need to post a warning first — I will be talking about sexual assault and the resulting emotional disorders, but I will refrain from any graphic descriptions. So if anyone feels they can’t deal with reading it today, stop here. # # # # # # # # # Okay. When I was 15 I went on my first "car date" with a guy named Jim. He was 18 and went to a different high school in my hometown. He said we were going to go bowling but we never got there. He parked in an uninhabited area where there were other cars parked. We were making out and I thought I was the luckiest girl alive — he was so handsome, and I was a chubby brainiac with glasses. But he pushed me down and raped me. Didn’t matter that I kept saying no. He called me a lot of accusatory names, making me believe it was my fault. He hurt me badly, and humiliated me, and then dropped me. I didn’t tell anyone about it for many years. I found out this week that he lives about 2 hours from me. Keep in mind, I moved halfway across the continent. Turns out, he did too. There’s nothing to be read in that — lots of Iowans defected to California. Anyway, knowing he was alive and not far away brought up huge wells of rage and fear that made me want to do him major harm. Which, in turn, made me feel physically ill to the point where I could not drive to my therapy appointment. I called Gauri (my therapist) and after I told her what was going on we had our session on the phone. She asked a lot of diagnostic questions and said it sounds like PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the web about PTSD yesterday I completely agree. Since the rape, I have had major depression, occasionally suicidal (not for many years, I’m glad to report), compulsive overeating, substance abuse, my tendency to be quickly startled or angered, and a long line of unhealthy relationships. And, of course, the increasing anxiety over the last couple of years. My history, plus my detailed memories of the rape that, once remembered play over and over in my head, plus my terrible reaction to knowing where he is — all lead to the diagnosis of PTSD. Gauri and I will be using a new kind of CBT based on a book called "Seeking Safety". If anyone knows about this, I’d love to hear from you, either on the board or in email. What makes this new as I understand it, is that PTSD and substance abuse used to be treated as separate problems, and this therapy treats them together. I haven’t done any dangerous drugs for many years, but the fact that I went through years of it means substance abuse is in me. Anyway, there we are. That’s why I answered the unofficial QOTD about opposite sex issues the way I did — I was in the middle of madness. After a couple of klonopin, a long nap in the afternoon, and an easy dinner, I felt much better last night. Today I still have the headache that came on a couple of days ago, and I’m trying to use breathing exercises to fend off the creeping anxiety. This is not a situation that will go away in a short time. It pisses me off that something that happened so long ago is now disrupting my life. I thought I had worked it all through in therapy in the last 10 years or so. But the rage has been bubbling just under the surface for a long time, and now it’s coming out and I’m trying very hard not to be a pain in the patootie to people around me. I didn’t want to tell Mom about this current upsurge, but she was worried so I emphasized the optimism I feel about therapy. Well, this was long. Anyway, you all now know what I’m in the middle of right now. Thanks for reading. Love to all Deirdre

Response:

"Doug" wrote I don’t know why but I’ve been really anxious these past few days. I can teach my class (and even stand up in front of them and draw diagrams on the whiteboard [which I never used to be able to do]), but all the paperwork BS at the college is making me anxious. I felt really hurried trying to get all this BS paperwork done and I’m sure it showed. I was rude to someone at the college. I’m planning on apologizing to her, in person, next week. I figure an email apology isn’t much of an apology. Hope everyone has a calm, collected weekend (it’s Friday morning here in Los Angeles).

This anxiety thing is a bitch. I’m sorry you continue to have problems, Doug. But it IS heartening to know you can teach your class! That’s wonderful progress. Slowing myself down when I’m feeling that hurry-up-anxiety often works for me: I just tell myself that the world will NOT come to an end, NO ONE will bleed to death, and I will NOT be arrested if I get this thing done 15 minutes or an hour or even a day later than I thought I OUGHT to. There’s that OUGHT/should thing. It’s kind of like taking back control of the situation. This could work for you. Let me know what you think. Hugs Deirdre (dealing with PTSD rage on Friday afternoon in San Diego) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m sorry Doug. Even paperwork can be very stressful at times. I hope you have a better day real soon. {{{{{Doug}}}}} Di

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Oh Doug, I’m so sorry. Reminds me of when I was going to college and had all these different deadlines in different courses. It’s VERY anxiety provoking. Hopefully the paperwork will be over soon?? I admire you for being able to teach. I couldn’t do it. Even with little kids. My son’s a teacher, but he’s outgoing and has no anxiety issues. I’m sure the person you need to appologize to will understand. Just take in some deep breaths and enjoy the weekend. Next week WON’T be a repeat of this last one. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I don’t know why but I’ve been really anxious these past few days. I can ::teach my class (and even stand up in front of them and draw diagrams on the ::whiteboard [which I never used to be able to do]), but all the paperwork BS ::at the college is making me anxious. I felt really hurried trying to get all ::this BS paperwork done and I’m sure it showed. I was rude to someone at the ::college. I’m planning on apologizing to her, in person, next week. I figure ::an email apology isn’t much of an apology. Hope everyone has a calm, ::collected weekend (it’s Friday morning here in Los Angeles). Dear Doug, I`m sorry you had another anxious day! When you say you felt "hurried", is this something you put on yourself, or does the job demand that you get all that paperwork down quickly? I find that "anxiety" and "hurrying"…. feed off each other. What works best for "me" is to slow down both physically and mentally. I make a conscious effort to slow my activity and thoughts. When I am successful in doing that, more than likely my anxiety will decrease too. It might help if you slow your pace down a bit. I know that can be hard with job deadlines. I agree, an apology face-to-face is more sincere. Hope you have a anxiety-free weekend. (((((Doug))))) Jackie ~*~There are two ways of meeting difficulties: you alter the difficulties or you alter yourself meeting them~*~ ~~Phyllis Bottome — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Stressed out…and need help with cat

admin — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

1. gyn appointment tomorrow. Don’t know what the doc will be telling me…hopefully I’ll be reporting that nothing is wrong, or that I just have to have a D & C and I am starting to go through menapause. My period lasted for 2 weeks, I had very bad cramps and I had spotting in between. 2. Stressed out ’cause my cat ripped the neighbors pool. My neighbor called today to tell me that my cat has been at the edge of their pool drinking water….that she may rip the pool and that the chlorine could hurt her. Then I back out of the driveway in my car and who do I see leaning over into the neighbors pool…?..right..my cat. So I stop the car, run in the house, get a squirter with water and spray water on the cat. She immediately falls into the pool, immediately swam and ran out of the pool. Then upon my return to home I drive down my driveway and who greets me? My neighbor comes over to tell me that their pool is now deflating…so I give them a check for the cost of the pool and some. Now…I don’t know how to keep my cat away from the pool, and she is not trained to do her business in the house. I know the pool will only be a problem for the summer months as I live in New England but do any other cat owners have any suggestions? Any wise words would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to be complaining so much. You’re the only people I can complain to that doesn’t get upset with me.

Response:

We-ell… here in the UK the cat owner would *not* be held liable, as in UK law a cat is seen as a ‘free-spirit’ not trainable in the same way dogs are and reflecting the nature of cats. So you could move to the UK Put it this way – If I were concerned a neighbour’s cat could ruin a pool in my garden, I’d not be buying one that a cat could damage. Perhaps they should be replacing it with one not so easy to damage – it must be very delicate if a cat claw can damage it so much. Heaven knows what they’d do if they placed it on a small sharp stone… The idea of them having a water squirter is a good one – as that can deter the cat without harming it. Plus the idea of you having a small pool in your own garden is too. Actually I’m exceedingly surprised the cat will drink the water if it is chlorinated – usually cats can’t stand chlorinated water. As your cat has now fallen in the pool, it may well be the incident that keeps her away from it in future. Cheers, helen s

Response:

Oh, you poor thing, sounds like a stressful time. One suggestion for your cat, get a little pool for your yard, maybe she’ll drink out of yours instead? You might even get a small fountain, it might attract her more than the pool does. I hope all goes well at your doctor’s appt. I need to find a new doctor here, but I just hate these appts. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. gyn appointment tomorrow. Don’t know what the doc will be telling me…hopefully I’ll be reporting that nothing is wrong, or that I just have to have a D & C and I am starting to go through menapause. My period lasted for 2 weeks, I had very bad cramps and I had spotting in between. 2. Stressed out ’cause my cat ripped the neighbors pool. My neighbor called today to tell me that my cat has been at the edge of their pool drinking water….that she may rip the pool and that the chlorine could hurt her. Then I back out of the driveway in my car and who do I see leaning over into the neighbors pool…?..right..my cat. So I stop the car, run in the house, get a squirter with water and spray water on the cat. She immediately falls into the pool, immediately swam and ran out of the pool. Then upon my return to home I drive down my driveway and who greets me? My neighbor comes over to tell me that their pool is now deflating…so I give them a check for the cost of the pool and some. Now…I don’t know how to keep my cat away from the pool, and she is not trained to do her business in the house. I know the pool will only be a problem for the summer months as I live in New England but do any other cat owners have any suggestions? Any wise words would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to be complaining so much. You’re the only people I can complain to that doesn’t get upset with me.

Response:

Michelle and Helen, Thank you soooo much for replying. The thought of a small wading pool sounds really good. I’ll be buying one today. I also know that by late this afternoon, I’ll have already gone to the doc…so whatever I find out, I’ll decide one avenue to take once I get answers to my multiple problems.

Response:

Thanks all of you for lending a hand to help me out. The cat stayed in yesterday. I can’t take a chance of her going over again to the neighbors pool. I know she was scared when i squirted her and she fell in the pool, but I don’t know if she is capable of remembering her submersion into the pool and the trauma of having to swim and get out of it. I just can’t take a chance with these neighbors. Ugh..i am going to take it one day at a time. Luckily one of my kids doesn’t have work today so they’ll have a watchful eye out for her. My visit with my new gyn went well. He is an extremely knowledgable doc and shows a tremendous amount of support. His nurses were just as nice. He pretty much sees signs that I am in perimenapause, which is the beginning stages of menapause. I just have to have a hystoscopy next month to make sure everything is OK and in normal shape. Thanks again for all of your support and kindness!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now…I don’t know how to keep my cat away from the pool, and she is not trained to do her business in the house. I’d be very willing to bet that after her dip in the pool today after you sprayed her she won’t go anywhere near the pool. I’ve had cats all my life, she won’t forget anytime soon that the last time she went for a drink she also went for a swim. There are cats who are "water babies" and love to swim, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Keep an eye out, but I think the problem may have solved itself. Best of luck to you, about the cat and the gyn appointment. Dana

Response:

/snip/ Actually I’m exceedingly surprised the cat will drink the water if it is chlorinated – usually cats can’t stand chlorinated water.

/snip/ All of our cats (4) drink from our chlorinated pool on occasion.

Response:

A couple of observations on Mr or Ms Cat. Either has to be a pretty big damn cat, or a pretty damn small pool. Since you said it was chlorinated I suspect it isn’t all that little of a pool. If that is the case your neighbor should really have their yard fenced off lest some little kid come by fall in and drown. An unfenced pool is what is known as an attractive nuisance and your neighbor could be held liable. Another option is to fence your own yard if your don’t want Mr or Ms Kitty prowling all over your hood. I hope it is at least fixed if you let it run loose.

Response:

Now…I don’t know how to keep my cat away from the pool, and she is not trained to do her business in the house.

I’d be very willing to bet that after her dip in the pool today after you sprayed her she won’t go anywhere near the pool. I’ve had cats all my life, she won’t forget anytime soon that the last time she went for a drink she also went for a swim. There are cats who are "water babies" and love to swim, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Keep an eye out, but I think the problem may have solved itself. Best of luck to you, about the cat and the gyn appointment. Dana

Response:

in the UK do people kill cats often ? i know that if your cat tore up my pool and you did not repay me you would have 1 dead cat to deal with.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2. Stressed out ’cause my cat ripped the neighbors pool. My neighbor called today to tell me that my cat has been at the edge of their pool drinking water….that she may rip the pool and that the chlorine could hurt her. Then I back out of the driveway in my car and who do I see leaning over into the neighbors pool…?..right..my cat. So I stop the car, run in the house, get a squirter with water and spray water on the cat. She immediately falls into the pool, immediately swam and ran out of the pool. Then upon my return to home I drive down my driveway and who greets me? My neighbor comes over to tell me that their pool is now deflating…so I give them a check for the cost of the pool and some. Now…I don’t know how to keep my cat away from the pool, and she is not trained to do her business in the house. I know the pool will only be a problem for the summer months as I live in New England but do any other cat owners have any suggestions? Any wise words would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to be complaining so much. You’re the only people I can complain to that doesn’t get upset with me. We-ell… here in the UK the cat owner would *not* be held liable, as in UK law a cat is seen as a ‘free-spirit’ not trainable in the same way dogs are and reflecting the nature of cats. So you could move to the UK Put it this way – If I were concerned a neighbour’s cat could ruin a pool in my garden, I’d not be buying one that a cat could damage. Perhaps they should be replacing it with one not so easy to damage – it must be very delicate if a cat claw can damage it so much. Heaven knows what they’d do if they placed it on a small sharp stone… The idea of them having a water squirter is a good one – as that can deter the cat without harming it. Plus the idea of you having a small pool in your own garden is too. Actually I’m exceedingly surprised the cat will drink the water if it is chlorinated – usually cats can’t stand chlorinated water. As your cat has now fallen in the pool, it may well be the incident that keeps her away from it in future. Cheers, helen s

Response:

People need to take responsibility for their pets. Therefore it would be more fair/logical to kill the cat’s owner, anyway mk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I think Andrew’s comment was a bit extreme, but I would like to believe that if I had a pool in a fenced yard and someone’s pet destroyed it that they would Of course. As any *reasonable* neighbor would. But I find if hard to believe that any cat could actually puncture a pool with its claws. Then again, anyone in my neighborhood that killed a cat would end up in my garden as compost. Dana

Response:

Well I think Andrew’s comment was a bit extreme, but I would like to believe that if I had a pool in a fenced yard and someone’s pet destroyed it that they would

Of course. As any *reasonable* neighbor would. But I find if hard to believe that any cat could actually puncture a pool with its claws. Then again, anyone in my neighborhood that killed a cat would end up in my garden as compost. Dana

Response:

Well I think Andrew’s comment was a bit extreme, but I would like to believe that if I had a pool in a fenced yard and someone’s pet destroyed it that they would mk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in the UK do people kill cats often ? i know that if your cat tore up my pool and you did not repay me you would have 1 dead cat to deal with.

Response:

in the UK do people kill cats often ? i know that if your cat tore up my pool and you did not repay me you would have 1 dead cat to deal with.

Response:

in the UK do people kill cats often ? i know that if your cat tore up my pool and you did not repay me you would have 1 dead cat to deal with.

Watch it, Podner. This is cat country. BobB —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

You have a point. Roo has several points. Butt-head what’s-his-name who would kill a cat for whatever reason is an idiot and needs to get off my planet. Dana

Response:

Listen, Dana. I have a heroic little cat name of Roo who, despite being half blind, and being crippled from a stroke, put the hook into my right forefinger while I was combing him (he can’t do the cat thing with his fur) and I had to rip it on through to get loose. Took two stitches and a tetnus shot to fix it up. Roo could gain access to a Patton tank if he wanted to, and he could deflate a play-pool _en passant_. BobB —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

People need to take responsibility for their pets. Therefore it would be more fair/logical to kill the cat’s owner, anyway mk Then again, anyone in my neighborhood that killed a cat would end up in my garden as compost. Dana

Holy cow! And so, Group; as you can see: The Great Cat Wars, like all wars, do escalate. BobB —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just to update everyone. My cat went outside by mistake last week. She won’t go near the pool. I think that little swim that she had to take right after I squirted her with water was enough to keep her away forever. So far….so good. :) Good news! Cheers, helen s There is a "phenomenon" in experimental psychology (and, common sense), called "one trial learning", which comes down to learning while in a trauma, and to be rewarded by finding the way out of the trauma. It often last a lifetime in young animals. They learn not to allow themselves to be in the same traumatic situation again, and this may generalize to some extent to being more careful about getting into siuations which could lead to trauma. IOW, they learn to avoid avoidable trauma. It also may be the reason that those who are traumatically abused, and broken away, can have difficulty over the years, because they have been trained to avoid trauma, which some interpret as stress and anxiety, and they live closeted lives. We love cats. We have 2, 7 yr. old DS sisters, Annie O. and Casey Lightning, MDs. They are both physicians, in private practice. They treat cats, of course, and they did quite well in LA. But, in LA, people take their cats to cats for "understanding medical care". That would not do well here in OR where people appear far more sane and civil. All animials are loved here, but they’re pampered pets, not doctors. They had a www site, but didn’t pay their fees for webmastering my site or theirs. One thing led to another and we took it down, but one never knows. The Lightning Sisters Medical Center may rise from the ashes of cyberspace once again for those who remember its debut. Jack

Jack, I think that the trauma that the animals may go through is similar to what can happen to people that have been traumatized. I have PTSD, and am doing better as the years go on, and have been able to re-visit places that I couldn’t go to for a long time. There still are occasions that it creeps up on me. Just thought I’d share a similarity between our beloved pets and ourselves. Susan

Response:

Good news! Cheers, helen s

Response:

There is a "phenomenon" in experimental psychology (and, common sense), called "one trial learning", which comes down to learning while in a trauma, and to be rewarded by finding the way out of the trauma. It often last a lifetime in young animals. They learn not to allow themselves to be in the same traumatic situation again, and this may generalize to some extent to being more careful about getting into siuations which could lead to trauma. IOW, they learn to avoid avoidable trauma. It also may be the reason that those who are traumatically abused, and broken away, can have difficulty over the years, because they have been trained to avoid trauma, which some interpret as stress and anxiety, and they live closeted lives. We love cats. We have 2, 7 yr. old DS sisters, Annie O. and Casey Lightning, MDs. They are both physicians, in private practice. They treat cats, of course, and they did quite well in LA. But, in LA, people take their cats to cats for "understanding medical care". That would not do well here in OR where people appear far more sane and civil. All animials are loved here, but they’re pampered pets, not doctors. They had a www site, but didn’t pay their fees for webmastering my site or theirs. One thing led to another and we took it down, but one never knows. The Lightning Sisters Medical Center may rise from the ashes of cyberspace once again for those who remember its debut. Jack

Response:

in the UK do people kill cats often ? i know that if your cat tore up my pool and you did not repay me you would have 1 dead cat to deal with.

*plonk*

Response:

See? What a good girl! Dana

Response:

Just to update everyone. My cat went outside by mistake last week. She won’t go near the pool. I think that little swim that she had to take right after I squirted her with water was enough to keep her away forever. So far….so good. :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks all of you for lending a hand to help me out. The cat stayed in yesterday. I can’t take a chance of her going over again to the neighbors pool. I know she was scared when i squirted her and she fell in the pool, but I don’t know if she is capable of remembering her submersion into the pool and the trauma of having to swim and get out of it. I just can’t take a chance with these neighbors. Ugh..i am going to take it one day at a time. Luckily one of my kids doesn’t have work today so they’ll have a watchful eye out for her. My visit with my new gyn went well. He is an extremely knowledgable doc and shows a tremendous amount of support. His nurses were just as nice. He pretty much sees signs that I am in perimenapause, which is the beginning stages of menapause. I just have to have a hystoscopy next month to make sure everything is OK and in normal shape. Thanks again for all of your support and kindness!!!! Now…I don’t know how to keep my cat away from the pool, and she is not trained to do her business in the house. I’d be very willing to bet that after her dip in the pool today after you sprayed her she won’t go anywhere near the pool. I’ve had cats all my life, she won’t forget anytime soon that the last time she went for a drink she also went for a swim. There are cats who are "water babies" and love to swim, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Keep an eye out, but I think the problem may have solved itself. Best of luck to you, about the cat and the gyn appointment. Dana

Response:

Then again, anyone in my neighborhood that killed a cat would end up in my garden as compost. Dana Holy cow! And so, Group; as you can see: The Great Cat Wars, like all wars, do escalate. BobB

Sorry. PMS. (Pass My Shotgun.) Dana

Response:

Relationships and paradoxes

admin — Sat, 28 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Alan B. Mac Farlane wrote: > it all goes to the heart ilya. learning about living in love instead of > living in fear … regardless if one wants to style it from a mental or an > emotional thang. love is mental, emotional, and more then that.

Yeah, well, it depends on the kind of love we’re talking about here, doesn’t it? There are people who say such things as "love your enemy" and "love is the answer," and of course different people mean different things by "love." I personally find that there’s a lot to be had from all the different kinds of love. The most amusing interpretation I’ve seen was from a young DC guy: "God is love, and there’s no greater love than to lay down your life for your friends, and I don’t want to live" (meaning, of course, "I am God"). My girlfriend would tell me "Love your neighbor, but not too much." It’s all about definitions, and some of those definitions are based on emotional tenor and others on philosophical state. > the imago is not the ideal mate in ones head but a conglomeration of > energies of what you made up as a child in what you desire and are not > getting and what you fear and are getting. both ends are sought in the > persons immune system to relax, get out of the fear, and learn about love. > it comes up in all relationships.

So you’re trying to get what you desire and overcome what causes the fear? And in imago you get what you don’t desire & what you fear? So is it then necessary to overcome the imago? Or to become a mage? > my imago has a disattachment disorder and a sex addiction. my imago hates > men, and can not stand being around them or talking to them. i love women > like this … get married to them … they bail on their addiction PTSD > issues.

Alan. Do you know how many beautiful, good-hearted women around the world would do anything to be with someone like you? I know the mind tends to reinforce the patterns, but do you think that if you stopped muckraking & started looking up there could be something worthwhile coming along? > have to get off the judgement and the expectation … and just keep putting > love inside of you where the anger contempt and resentment comes up between > you and him.

OK, you put love where there’s something else. I can understand that, though I don’t exactly call that love – more like cosmic warmth, or Reiki-type energy. > keep putting love inside of where you have judgement and keep seeing > everything outside of you from the rattlesnake to alcohol to money to > marijuana as good, from God and has its place in the world. part of > evolution, genetics, and making things better … healing things up. > You are close to getting this … keep doing what you are doing. > sumbuddie on da watchtower

Yeah, I know you are on da watchtower. Has Satan tempted you yet? Austin Powers The International Man of Mystery.

Response:

ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com wrote in news:1117294488.975767.275290 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: > There are many people

who laugh at Wankboi Shambat. — Cujo – The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych. Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award. Hail Petitmorte! Colonel of the Fanatic Legion. FL# 555-PLNTY Motto: ABUNDANCE!. Charter Member – Digital Brownshirts and Library Gestapo. "The Google archives; for 7 years and running–for all to see for as long as the Internet shall live–evidences that I am the victor, and you are the failures." – Edmo, keeping a record of his failures.

Response:

Alan B. Mac Farlane wrote: > ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com wrote >>The problem I see is when the person wants one thing on the emotional >>level and another at the mental level. > it all goes to the heart ilya. learning about living in love instead of > living in fear … regardless if one wants to style it from a mental or an > emotional thang. love is mental, emotional, and more then that.

Thank you, that was well-said.

Response:

On Sat, 28 May 2005 8:34:49 -0700, ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com wrote (in message <1117294488.975767.275…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>): > There are many people in psychology who believe that relationships are > about equality. I believe that is very wrong. People are different, and > different things work for different people.

You mean as masturbating at a PC terminal in a public library works for you? —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= East/West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

in article 1117294488.975767.275…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com at ilya_shambat2…@yahoo.com wrote on 5/28/05 8:34 AM: > The problem I see is when the person wants one thing on the emotional > level and another at the mental level.

it all goes to the heart ilya. learning about living in love instead of living in fear … regardless if one wants to style it from a mental or an emotional thang. love is mental, emotional, and more then that. the immune system, the defense struture is always going about healing, and keeping the person from getting hurt. it knows how to put up scabs and tender boundaries … it knows how to heal. right down to something called an IMAGO. the imago is not the ideal mate in ones head but a conglomeration of energies of what you made up as a child in what you desire and are not getting and what you fear and are getting. both ends are sought in the persons immune system to relax, get out of the fear, and learn about love. it comes up in all relationships. my imago has a disattachment disorder and a sex addiction. my imago hates men, and can not stand being around them or talking to them. i love women like this … get married to them … they bail on their addiction PTSD issues. my dad has the same imago in his head like i do in mine and beside being abused himself, having a mom with a batter wife syndrome going on like i did … so my dad had sex with other women instead of my mom. i understand this now … my dad loved my mom and she could not stand to be around him, constantly putting venom into his life … so my dad to get any sex at all he had to be with women who he could talk to, get along with and never love. have to get off the judgement and the expectation … and just keep putting love inside of you where the anger contempt and resentment comes up between you and him. keep putting love inside of where you have judgement and keep seeing everything outside of you from the rattlesnake to alcohol to money to marijuana as good, from God and has its place in the world. part of evolution, genetics, and making things better … healing things up. You are close to getting this … keep doing what you are doing. sumbuddie on da watchtower )

Response:

There are many people in psychology who believe that relationships are about equality. I believe that is very wrong. People are different, and different things work for different people. There are women who are happy being submissive; and that is their right. There are men who are happy being submissive to the right woman; and that is their right as well. The problem I see is when the person wants one thing on the emotional level and another at the mental level. For example, there are many women who are emotionally submissive, but mentally want a partnership of equals. That, of course, does not work; and they have bad relationships (either being destroyed by domineering brutes or "drifting apart" from men who treat them as equals) and continue having bad relationships until either they get their emotions to accord with their reason or get their reason to accord with their emotions. Or until they get killed. The same is true for men who are attracted to one kind of women but morally and mentally value another. The men who are attracted to glamorous, free-spirited women find themselves unexplicably shocked when such women do not consent to washing floors all day and letting the man control their children’s development. Then they blame women, or love, or liberalism, or even human nature, when the only thing they should be blaming is their lack of insight and foresight. I am not against relationships of equals, and I am not against relationships in which one party is the top and the other is the bottom. Both can work in the right circumstances. What I am uncompromisingly against, is that which is superior serving that which is inferior. I am uncompromisingly against the beautiful serving the ugly, the caring and tender and loving serving that which has none of such qualities, and the sweet and compassionate serving the malicious and brutish and cruel and entirely lacking in emotional bounty. Now there are people who believe that the first set of qualities are part of the submissive role. I do not believe that to be true; I believe that it is quite possible to have these qualities and lead. And I believe that being able to do so, is what is required to make the world beautiful and lives of its people worthwhile. These are virtues, and ones that make the world wonderful for those who would accept them and let them develop into mature fruition. And making it possible for this to be the case, is the first step toward making a world that is worthy of human habitation. For that to become the case, I push for the following arrangement: Men who have it within themselves to appreciate and value the tender, the soulful, the gentle in women, and support these qualities in their constructive manifestation, finding women who have such qualities and developing with them a creative-poetic partnership that not only makes life beautiful for each other, but also spreads this beauty to those around them (and crystallizing it in works that will last). In this, are accomplished two crucial things. One, the two people have a beautiful life – life that accords with the beauty they hold within themselves; and two, is created work that will inspire others and make beautiful their lives as well. Created is therefore a beautiful existence for the two parties, and a beautiful world. Which makes this a superior mode of relating to either the equalist or the domineering – a life that is an ongoing cultivation and share of beauty, and its share with the rest of the world. Romanticism and Renaissance come together, with the first being the way of life – and the second being the legacy. Ilya Shambat.