Trauma – PTSD

Question:

Hi I haven’t been diagnosed with PTSD. PTSD has been in the news media so i have heard some vague things about it. I have been reading some websites and this ng recently and have recognised some of the symptoms in myself. I have a rather long story to tell and would be interested in any comments you seasoned veterans may have to offer. I apologise in advance for the length of the story, in fact this is only a small part of the story and just touching the tip of the proverbial iceberg. To start with over the past 3 years i have disassociated from my family of origin, it has been a steady process,  there have been too many events over 40 years that at this point prevent a complete  reconciliation. For my siblings and I there were some very dark times for us as children which, by todays standards, would be described as abuse. For punishment we were usually thrashed with all manner of implements, including jug cords, belts, sticks,  a spatula (a kitchen implement used for scraping out bowls). If my younger brother were ‘naughty’ he was made to go and pick a switchy stick from the tree outside the backdoor, Dad would say "  (name)  go and get the stick" so my brother would dutifully go to pick a switchy stick, knowing that, upon his return, he would receive a thrashing. Dad would check the stick for switchiness, if it were not switchy enough then brother would have to go get another one. I also knew about the suffering of the ’switchy stick’. As soon as dad would start thrashing me, I would automatically drop to the floor and wrap my arms around my legs to protect them.    The switchy stick was just as painful when it connected with the arms. As soon as we started crying he would shout "stop crying !! stop crying !!" and he would thrash us harder,   till we stopped crying.  We  learned how to *not cry* while being thrashed,  because  when the crying started the thrashing got worse. Looking back, I think we were pretty good kids really and I seriously doubt the thrashings were appropriate punishment for the things we might have done,  these are my memories from a very young age.    Dad also taught one of my brothers  to "dance" using the stick,  he would switch the stick on the floor around my brothers’  feet and thought it amusing to watch him ‘dancing’. Then  there was the time when one of my brothers said the word "bum"  I told on him then,  to my surpise and horror, our Mother ran  him to the bathroom and stabbed soap in his mouth and thoroughly washed his mouth clean with soap and water.    I could hear him screaming and gagging in there,   I felt so bad, it became my fault for telling on him. Another time that same brother got lost in town.  One of the neighbours found him and stayed with him until we found each other again.  Yes Mum was ‘frantic’ but I think that was no excuse for the bashing that she issued, on mainstreet,  in front of  all the passers by, including the neighbour. My brother was already  dealing with the trauma of being lost and then received a fair hiding, in a public place,  on top of it all. After events such as this the stress was further compounded when for weeks after the event Mother would tell friends and visitors all about it,  in front of us.  She sould tell everyone how she thought it was only right to issue the punishment to the child right there on the spot, rather than wait to get home to do so, that way the child  knows what they are being punished for.  To me it seems she would tell people about those things, as if to seek acknowledgement that what she did was right,  this  added to our shame and humiliation.   I guess it was also part of our training to make us believe that what she did is always right, after all,    the visitors that she  told never seemed to disagree. Whenever we had visitors Mother would always tell us   "children should be seen and not heard"   she would tell us that in front of the visitors and get their agreement.  So every time we spoke in front of visitors we would be told   "children should be seen and not heard" so we learned never to say anything in front of guests. There were also many other wonderful old sayings that became household commandments. There were also some old sayings that were repeated time and again, so they were instilled in us as 2nd nature,  example –  dad always said that "if I had my time again I would not have kids" that one always made me feel so (hhhhmmm ) ‘wanted’       ? Then there were the numrous names, one of Mother’s favourites was ‘imbecile’ whenever we made mistakes or didn’t achieve what was expected we were issued a whole variety of names. There were also subtle punishments and incentives to promote good behaviour in public places.  Mother always took pride in her glamourous long fingernails,  whenever we went anywhere in public, if we weren’t on our best behaviour we knew we’d be on the receiving end of her enormous long talons. She would pinch us so hard it would break our skin and we’d feel the hot sting for a considerable time afterwards. Then there were the ‘looks" if we went somewhere and were offered anything, we would look at her, if she shot us a look of pursed lips and squinted eyes we knew we were not allowed to accept. So often when our Grandmothers offered us a cookies, or any other treats, we would have to turn down the treats upon the ‘look’ from our Mother.  It was rare indeed that we were able to accept any treats. One thing I hated about myself as a child was my  long hair,  if I was ‘naughty’ she would yank my hair so hard and fast my head would jerk back, then  my head and neck would ache for a considerable while. I hated my long hair with all my heart and always wanted it to be cut short, when my first daugher was born, one of the first things I did was have a hairdresser cut my hair short. There were very many other events,  physical and mental abuses but I think one of the worst things about those abuses is that she would tell people about them and laugh or she would do these things in front of other people, furthering the shame and humiliation. As a small child I  remember Mother always seemed to be reading books,  and she would never hear me when I spoke to her,  she’d ignore me and carry on reading,  so I’d have to really talk loud and repeat myself many times before she would hear what I was saying From about  4 years old I recall I was not allowed to crunch apples, or eat food loudly near Mother.  The funny part about that is this,  if I was sitting near her eating an apple and she was reading a book, she would always hear me crunching the apple and deal to me accordingly,  yet  she couldn’t hear me when I spoke. So I would always get in trouble for crunching apples and learned to chew agonisingly slowly to avoid the crunching. There were many other more minor events,  we children were often left waiting in cars while they went to social events.  On school event days, galas etc,  she always said she’d be there, so I would wait at the schoolgate for the whole day, waiting for her to arrive, she wouldn’t turn up, meanwhile all the other children would be enjoying the events, while I waited at the gate, watching down the road. When I got home she usually told me she forgot because she had visitors and that became a very apparent thing for us, that the guest, visitors and friend always came first. One day she came to meet  me after school,  I saw her in the distance, it was unexpected  and I was so frightened that she had come to meet me because I was in trouble for something, I started to run toward her for fear she would punish me for dawdling (another childhood crime)  that I got the most painful stitch and finally I couldn’t run, I couldn’t even walk I was doubled up in such pain and unable to move. She was quite worried by this and took me to the doctor, he told her it was stress, so she assumed it was related to an Aunty and Uncle who were staying with us at the time.  She arranged for them to move out, but she never seemed to realise how stressed any of us were by her actions. It was stress, I have always been nervous and jumpy. To their friends, my parents always seem such wonderful folk always welcoming, courteous, generous Mother always speaking of the power of "unconditional love"  for everyone.  Thus the reasons for never having spoken of this to anyone. In fact I have never acknowledged any of those events as abuse.  Mother was always telling us of  the bad things that happened in her life, if ever we acted in ways that she didn’t approve of she would say  "that’s it !!! kick me in the guts!!! just like everyone else has always kicked me in the guts !!". She would always make us feel bad and feel sorry for her. Until recently  no-one else has ever known of these things, we have never spoken of those things to anyone  I don’t know why, probably shame and embarrasment,  maybe because we were ‘trained’  not to,  maybe misplaced loyalty to our parents? I have never really blamed Dad for what happened to us, in fact I have mostly felt sorry for him as well, I saw her beat him up one day, she bashed him over the head with an iron because he was late home and another time she threw his dinner on the floor because he was late home. Then she made him clean  up the mess. She’s always made him clean up the mess, he’s always done the majority of the housework.  Whenever we wouldn’t respond appropriately for her  she made us all feel like she is the victim. So, for many reasons  I have never told people of these matters, besides no-one would believe it, they think my parents are so great and also because of the constant reminder that my parents had a poor hard life, I would be further victimising them. I guess it wasn’t always so bad, as we got older, Mother got a job and became a bit softer but still would fly into wicked rages if things weren’t going well, screaming at us at the top of her lungs so the neighbours could hear,  and they would even comment about this, it

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Response:

Wow…. I  just read your posting and I feel for you deeply.  I too understand the "overbearing" mother situation.  She is the HEAD of the household.  I want to write you more about it but I fear she will come to read this somehow and resent me and I will feel guilty just as you have said you will probably feel guilty after posting. I truly hope you don’t feel guilt though because what you said needed to be said.  Even if just for your own need’s—saying it out loud or writing it down, your feelings–It can be a big stress reducer. I think it’s safe to say that you do probably suffer from PTSD, although I am definitely not one to diagnose.  But you have experienced much trauma in your childhood and in your adult life, with mother and children.  You have much stress at even the mention or thought of "her".   My opinion, first of all would be to seek some counceling.  I think talking to a really good therapist is a good start.  Just talking about the past, learning how to let it go and learning how to move on is a great way to start recovery. Second, again, just my opinion, but if you can’t have a sit down conversation with your mom and tell her how you feel about the way you were raised and the way you still feel to this day, because all she does is try to put the guilt back in your face, it is better not to see her.   Maybe writing her a letter as you did on this NG would be a way to communicate how you feel with out her interruption’s or non-interest.   But, definitely, you need to take care of YOU.  You are a wonderful woman with beautiful children that can lead a happy life.  You probably just need a bit of a starter boost…I.E. Counceling. I sure hope that you will find peace and that you and your daughter begin to have a better relationship again. Take care and feel free to keep in touch! Amy — amac…@yahoo.com    Please use this address only

Response:

Thank you for your helpful thoughts Amy more:- . Amy <amac…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:01c070e6$1825e6e0$b83220d1@rmachmer… > Wow…. > I  just read your posting and I feel for you deeply.  I too understand the > "overbearing" mother situation.  She is the HEAD of the household.  I want > to write you more about it but I fear she will come to read this somehow > and resent me and I will feel guilty just as you have said you will > probably feel guilty after posting.

The problem of overbearing Mothers is so damn invasive, well in my case anyway. You’re right about the HEAD of the household, I mentioned in my post that I’d seen her attack my father, when that happened she hit him in the head with an iron and it knocked him semi conscious for a while, he staggered out of the house, I ran after him absolutely panic stricken and she screamed after me to not go outside. So there I was frozen on the doorstep, aged about 9 wondering whether he was alright. Another things she would do was ‘attack’ herself, scratching and clawing at herself, pulling her own hair etc.  which is absolutely horrific to observe! > I truly hope you don’t feel guilt though because what you said needed to be > said.  Even if just for your own need’s—saying it out loud or writing it > down, your feelings–It can be a big stress reducer.

I’m not sure about that, I’ll see how I feel over time and report of any change I might notice.  The worst thing is realising after a whole lifetime, that those things were wrong!  and looking back to realise the ‘madness’ of it all. > I think it’s safe to say that you do probably suffer from PTSD, although I > am definitely not one to diagnose.  But you have experienced much trauma in > your childhood and in your adult life, with mother and children.  You have > much stress at even the mention or thought of "her".

Many people over time have commented that I’m am ‘highly strung’ not so much in adult years but certainly while I was growing up, they’d say "you’re highly strung aren’t you !". I never actually knew what that meant, but I used to always shake all the time and if there was something needed doing then I would go out of my way to get it done, no matter at what personal cost. I am unable to do that anymore. > My opinion, first of all would be to seek some counceling.  I think talking > to a really good therapist is a good start.  Just talking about the past, > learning how to let it go and learning how to move on is a great way to > start recovery.

thank you for that advice. I don’t know about seeing councellors, I’ll think on it some. First I’d have to define what I am seeing one for I guess, justification. I was always led to believe that to attend therapy or counselling is to admit defeat. Got to keep the ’stiff upper lip’ and sort out the problems yourself, never admit there’s a problem, all that sort of thing. > Second, again, just my opinion, but if you can’t have a sit down > conversation with your mom and tell her how you feel about the way you were > raised and the way you still feel to this day, because all she does is try > to put the guilt back in your face, it is better not to see her.

That is the point I have come to. One of the most upsetting things is that she always tells people how the best days of her life were when the children (us) were young and how being a Mother is the most wonderful thing. She talks about ‘unconditional’ love like it’s a plentiful commodity. However, the day I first found and defined ‘unconditional love ‘ was the day I received my first daughter. Having a daughter for me was the very essence of unconditional love, it was then that I first discovered it and it was a mutual energy between myself and that baby. So the words "unconditional love" were first heard by my Mother when I said them for the first time, up till that point she’d never heard of such a thing, but since that time she has bandied those words around in tarnished fashion as if she invented them. That is what really makes it so difficult to be around in company with her. I can’t hear those words issue from her mouth knowing all the while that it was never like that and she’s not perfect as the picture she presents. One of the other things that is really upsetting, I still see my father and I thought he must have fathered us in the way that his father rteated him, so that was one of the  reasons I never blamed him harshly for the thrashings and the shaking ( I forgot to mention) he would grab us by the shoulders and shake the hell out of us.  I always thought that must be how his Dad dealt with him  In the past two years we had a discussion in which he told me his Father never hit him or treated him roughly in any way. That was really really painful, when for years I thought he must have had a bad example. So that helped to compound a lot of things and I started asking ‘where did the anger come from’. But I know Mother used to always wind him up with nagging behaviour.  We were _all_  wound up. > Maybe writing her a letter as you did on this NG would be a way to > communicate how you feel with out her interruption’s or non-interest.

I know, you are quite right. I’ve thought of that and if I was dealing with a rational person then that might be an ultimate door opener. > But, definitely, you need to take care of YOU.  You are a wonderful woman > with beautiful children that can lead a happy life.  You probably just need > a bit of a starter boost…I.E. Counceling.

Thank you again. It has been a miserable year. > I sure hope that you will find peace and that you and your daughter begin > to have a better relationship again.

My eldest Daughter is 22 soon to be 23 my younger one 17. I haven’t seen my elder daughter for about 3 years also. She has been living overseas for about 2 years and came back for a holiday about 2 weeks before christmas. My daughter and her boyfriend stayed at my parents house while they were here, my parents picked her up from the airport and dropped her back there, so I never had the opportunity to see her. One of the biggest complaints my daughter  has about me is that I don’t have a lot of close friends, she has criticised me a lot about that. She has many close friends and values them and perceives that there is something wrong with me because I don’t have an abundance of close friends. One of the reasons for this is that I have never permitted friendships to come before my Daughters, so when I had my girls close friendships became 2ndary. Mother would also tend to move in on my friendships, trying to become close friends with my friends and also friends and girlfriends of my sibblings. In her efforts to become many things to many people she would over-ride our friendships so we became peripheral to the friendships. So bottom line is that I can no longer cope with criticisms and avoid people who cause distress, a fuss or flurry. It wasn’t always like this. Well anyway I’ve harped on here significantly more than I intended thanks for your thoughts and ideas. > Take care and feel free to keep in touch!

Thanks I’ll lurk a while too – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Amy > — > amac…@yahoo.com    Please use this address only

Response:

Hello again, First I just want to thank you for sharing so much.  Again I hope talking about it has helped?? :you wrote:

thank you for that advice. I don’t know about seeing councellors, I’ll think on it some. First I’d have to define what I am seeing one for I guess, justification. I was always led to believe that to attend therapy or counselling is to admit defeat. Got to keep the ’stiff upper lip’ and sort out the problems yourself, never admit there’s a problem, all that sort of thing. About the councelling thing: You "have" admitted that there is a problem.  Now you need to work on that problem to get it resolved at least in your own heart.  Seeking therapy is not admitting defeat—It is you standing up and saying "I want some control back in my life".  It’s taking a step to become free of all that crap that has been hurting you for so long.  Talking to someone in a neutral position, that is trained to help you cope and overcome can be so rewarding.  I truly hope you will keep considering it. Writing a letter to your Mother wouldn’t be like trying to walk through a brick wall in my opinion.  She may not even finish reading it–Or she may tuck it away and try to forget it or even come back at you with blame. BUT—you will have finally told her how you feel in your own word’s with out interruption and no matter how much it hurts her—she will be forced somewhere sometime, deep down to look at herself and how she treated you and your sibling’s.  She’ll see that you are standing up for yourself—she is human and she’ll feel "something".   You can even explain why you’re writing instead of talking.  She needs to know how much she has hurt you. I know I’m basically just repeating myself to you but I really feel like these two thing’s are important first steps for you to take. Hang in there and keep talking! Amy

Response:

Thanks for all that Amy Maybe this ng is like a ‘rehearsal’ for counselling At least now I know what we’d be talking about, rather than fishing for many sessions to *locate* and diagnose to situation. The recommended websites certainly have a lot of answers! I was beginning to think that my Mother might have been PTSD but the more I read the website, particularly the section which refers to ‘hyper-vigilence’ the more clear it gets that she isn’t PTSD, although she certainly had a childhood trauma. But there are clear signs that her behaviours might be something else. I normally am not open to ’sharing so much’ however in circumstance where others know what I am talking about and I can identify *myself*  in *others* then that is a different matter, the path is clear for dialogue. I have found it is very difficult discussing things with others who have not had similar experience. They usually find it difficult to grasp the length, breadth and depth of the topic. People who have shared similar experience  are able to speak authoritively and then there can be mutual learning. This is Way Cool !!! Amy <amac…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:01c07186$0891c0a0$a33220d1@rmachmer… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello again, > First I just want to thank you for sharing so much.  Again I hope talking > about it has helped?? > :you wrote: > thank you for that advice. > I don’t know about seeing councellors, I’ll think on it some. First I’d > have > to define what I am seeing one for I guess, justification. > I was always led to believe that to attend therapy or counselling is to > admit defeat. Got to keep the ’stiff upper lip’ and sort out the problems > yourself, never admit there’s a problem, all that sort of thing. > About the councelling thing: > You "have" admitted that there is a problem.  Now you need to work on that > problem to get it resolved at least in your own heart.  Seeking therapy is > not admitting defeat—It is you standing up and saying "I want some > control back in my life".  It’s taking a step to become free of all that > crap that has been hurting you for so long.  Talking to someone in a > neutral position, that is trained to help you cope and overcome can be so > rewarding.  I truly hope you will keep considering it. > Writing a letter to your Mother wouldn’t be like trying to walk through a > brick wall in my opinion.  She may not even finish reading it–Or she may > tuck it away and try to forget it or even come back at you with blame. > BUT—you will have finally told her how you feel in your own word’s with > out interruption and no matter how much it hurts her—she will be forced > somewhere sometime, deep down to look at herself and how she treated you > and your sibling’s.  She’ll see that you are standing up for yourself—she > is human and she’ll feel "something".   You can even explain why you’re > writing instead of talking.  She needs to know how much she has hurt you. > I know I’m basically just repeating myself to you but I really feel like > these two thing’s are important first steps for you to take. > Hang in there and keep talking! > Amy

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