Question:
I have been detached from ASD/F lately. The reasons are many. The main one is that I do not feel there is room for much else, but arguments and endless lucubrations about who is responsible for what. Other reasons are things like the floorings, like the posts disappearing, and to see MM and Connie even in my soup. I have slowly come to the conclusion that elephant’s brain is not really dangerous. There is no one apparently who has challenged the idea that he hurt some of our members, but although I got mad at what happened, I really do not think he really made that damage everyone is taking for granted. This is related to the issue that worries everybody. Is he responsible? is Rebecca responsible for making her room so hot that Stan cannot bear it. I think this analogy is too simplistic. In the first place, elephant’s brain only brought to the general attention something that was there for the general attention anyhow. In the second place, if that sets the posters of the original posts to shriek in horrour and retire, I do not think it is so much elephant’s brain so responsible of that reaction. On the issue of responsibility, my position is far off those who think (including elephant’s brain himself) that we can push someone to suicide. If I am in despair and a fly passes by or chooses to lay on my hand, and I get into a superlative tantrum ending in my suicide (remember the bugs torturer, because he went mad when flies buzzed in front of him?), I do not think the fly is much responsible for my reaction. On my path to recovery, I have been dealing with all the wounds which made me such a freak in many ways, and which at one stage in my life. Honestly, I never thought that so much damage could be made on someone. Honestly I do not know how I was able to survive to this point. My pdoc, some 10 years ago, thought I had a little chance of survival. And I am sure, that showing me a post I made many years before the general public would not make nor better or worse my situation, even if that post was embarrassing to me or revealed a painful stage in my life. These things do not really hurt. I would grant that perhaps it makes me feel or bring to the surface something I have in me, but I insist, my personal shit wouldn’t be made worse. Talk about traumas, talk about real harm like when you are abused sexually, or my wounds out of when my mother approached me with a smile and pretending to be sweet only with the agenda of hurting me. Talk about losing a beloved person, talk about your girlfriend aborting your child, talk about those issues, and I am with you that they can lead you to suicide if you are weak (wounded to start with). But putting before my eyes something I posted a lot of time ago for everyone to see, not even private, c’mon guys, you must be joking in calling that harm. I always have been against those you cannot even frown upon because they get all sore and resentful. Maybe their wounds are too on the surface, and I grant it can be highly upsetting for them. But, I have a very long road traveled along the direction of demanding others to be so subtle for me that they shouldn’t speak loud because it bothers me, or makes me angry, or it hurts, or I cannot bear it, etc. I got into such degrees of hate because I saw everyone simply gave a damn about disturbing me, that I was going insane. The only way out for me was to accept that I had no right to ask others to stop being themselves in order to please me. I can grant that elephant’s brain can hardly be seen as just being a normie posting that stuff. But I do not think that exposing me to something I did in the past before the public eye is hurting me. So, do I think elephant’s brain is to blame, well, yes, but for being such a jerk, for being that impertinent, for being socially distasteful, but not for hurting. And if some of us felt hurt, that’s some of us’ issues, not the wound that elephant’s brain supposedly inflicted. Beware that if you insist that elephant brain is to be hold responsible for Minx’s or Kim’s wounds, then you are also granting to him that we are responsible for the people who took their lives and posted here. You ought to bear in mind that this is a public forum, and that no credentials are asked for anyone to post here. so we do not have a meter to measure the degree of illness of the posters. many of them have proved to be so fucked up, that even commit suicide. If you pose the question of whether they had committed suicide not having posted here, I guess you will be going around in circles because we simply do not have a way to know. The only thing I can say is that if they encountered here the trigger that made them take such action, they were at risk at encountering it even in church, anywhere. To me, someone who posted here and committed suicide would be dead anyhow even if they hadn’t come here. Has it occurred to you that perhaps he delayed his decision on account of the support here? No, because we only tend to feel guilty, not well with ourselves because we also do other things right. The gratification we feel when a poster says: "thank you, what you said to me made a lot of difference to me", just fades away very soon. But the guilt keeps lingering for eternity and years to beyond. We are afraid of our mistakes, and when we see others failing we feel our responsibility to outcast the evil. I can grant that some trolls are a pain in the ass, and so give a lot of problems and outcasting them is just neat. Elephant’s brain is trollish, has disturbed the group to the extent that I blame him because I have made posts which I would like to see replied to have a conversation. How can be otherwise, if everybody is engaged in the MM’s issue full time? There are real time threads that almost go faster than I am able to catch up. I find them started and when I finish reading the last, there are several more, but the issue moves somewhere else, another thread with the same theme, elephant’s brain agenda, and everybody is full time on them. So, I dislike elephant’s brain for being such a jerk, but again, it is not his responsibility, because everybody chooses to be engaged in the eternal responsibility issue and what the obscure reasons elephant’s brain has to be in here. This is turning Kafkian, he states he has something in his sleeve, but he is fucking taking his bloody time to have ASD/F upside down swallowing his crap, and following wherever he wants to go. But I do not blame him for hurting. I do not buy that. This is turning long. I’ll just say that my position has nothing to do with the sympathy everybody is feeling for the loss of his brother. I know it is painful to lose a brother. But I felt more sorry because his father blew his brains in front of him when he was 8 years old. He shared this before, and no one extended a word of sympathy. The point is that his brother used to post here, and under those circumstances we can be sympathetic, huh? Now I tell you. I do not know whether his brother also was present when his father took his life, but this for me is trigger or trauma enough for him to commit suicide. And to be honest, I got the creeps when elephant’s brain shared this bit of information, and stopped being to pushy on him. Because I wouldn’t be surprised he blew his brains off just to make his point. I fear that kind of traumas would lead him to have such horrour displays. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess a post like this one of yours would be in order when someone like elephant’s brain tries to shove your early stages of development in your face, instead of claiming getting hurt. Me also would be extremely upset if someone showed me a post from my early years of posting. I was terribly naive and with a bunch more defects than now. So, speaking for yourself, on how do you feel with it, and clearing the point that you have grown up a lot from those times is a neat thing to do. As I said in my post, I do not believe elephant’s brain should be applauded by his behaviour, but I do not thing he hurt Minx or Kym. That is my point. I’m on the fence on it. I can see both sides. It’s been awhile since I’ve been seriously triggered (um…. let’s see, i think it was summer of 96, my early asd years). It was so awful. Several days gone. poof. Don’t know what I did. I managed to get through work somehow, just barely. Or maybe not. I was fired within a couple of months after that. The poor guy had no clue what he was doing or what kind of bomb he’d blown up. And he was in no state of mind to handle *me* correctly. In that case, he had no intent to harm. None at all. It was purely accident. Our own neuroses collding off each other. I had to cut him loose immediately. Dead silence. Even now if I think back on it too much, I can feel It tickle my brain (It = dissociation). Sort of like, if I was to say to you, "what does vanilla smell like?" You automatically sniff and remember exactly what it smells like. You can almost smell it. This tells me that I’m not 100% "cured". It tells me I can still be triggered. and I have to stay away from whatever triggered that last episode until I can completely unravel it and no longer "smell" the dissociation when I think about it. When I say "stay away", I mean, stay away from the uncontrolled situation. Instead, approach it from a controlled one with safeguards in place. Did he harm me? Yes. I really didn’t need the additional stress at that time. Did he mean to? No. There’s no way he could have predicted my response. Do I think he’s a bad person? No. But no way am I going to renew our friendship! It’s just not safe (emotionally). So that’s how I interpret Minx and Kym’s situation now. Whether or not MM *meant* to harm doesn’t matter right now. However it happened, they’re hurting. It’ll be awhile before it stops being so raw. I think a lot of people here instinctively know what they might be feeling, because they’ve been through it too. Some people react by withdrawing, some by slashing, some by stuffing. I tend to withdraw. Hence, we have a big ol’ fights going on. And people withdrawing and .. well you know.
Mmmm. I guess I haven’t assessed so well the impact of some triggers like yours. The whole thing seems foreign to me. I can get that triggered in RL, but not by some words in a post. I mean, if a girl embarrassed me in front of a whole bunch of people, or if I was laughed at in a meeting, or something like this, I guess my first reaction was to stand up for myself, but there are some occasions in which I simply am not up to do it. There are occasions in which I feel so crappy that I would be run over by a situation like that. In those cases, I guess I would feel sore for a whole bunch of time. But here, maybe I have never been upset so strongly to feel the need to shut down the computer. But now you say it, I can grant that one must be kind to each other not to stir negatively others’ feelings.You say you didn’t need the additional stress, and I grant it. However, I do not think you were hurt. That is my point. It was your sensibility which couldn’t cope with that trigger, but nothing said here can add to our wounds. I strongly believe that. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teilhard, I read every word of the posts in this thread. I agree with some of what you said. I didn’t agree with what you said about hurt and blame that wombn addresses below: I don’t know the exact state of mind of Minx or Kym, but I can see that actual harm is definitely *possible*. BLAME, otoh, as in, assuming *intent* to harm. That’s what’s in question. <snip Did MM intend to? It looking not that way. But that doesn’t mean the women weren’t *hurt*. I think only in time will they even know if they were and be able to tell us whether or not they were. One thing that I can’t forget is that Minx cried out in pain after seeing some of the reposts and asked MM directly to stop doing it. He didn’t. He carried on and posted another one or two of her old posts. In doing this, he showed reckless disregard for Minx’s feelings and deliberately plowed ahead to drive the knife in even further. I blame him for doing that. I don’t buy his excuse that he didn’t see her protests. He was very much on top of everything being said in both ASD and ASDF so it seems unbelievable that he just *happened* to overlook the many posts that were generated about Minx’s feelings of violation.
You haven’t addressed my post, Heather, so, I do not really know what exactly you would go along with and where do you think I am not right. Therefore, I will not address the point myself, I just want to point out that it is not doing any good to keep hunting this man. As I say in my post, I blame him for many things, and the one you mention here adds up to the list. But I do not think he was hurting. I am convinced of that. But maybe not you, huh? Still I will say it again: I think this man is not dangerous, by what he has been behaving after the day he was bringing here those posts. And the group is suffering badly from this persecution. Just today I have seen three people leaving. And one of those, Bill, a man who apparently needed us very much. I am out of it. I do not care anymore. if he does something else against one of our members, let me know. But until then, I do not read any more crap. I repeat, ASD is suffering from this witch hunt. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
I repeat, ASD is suffering from this witch hunt. Tell me about it. I’m going to wait and see what happens today but I’m thoroughly fed up with this place being hijacked by MM and the sock puppets and am ready to disappear myself until this is over.
Too much migration, I am afraid. To my mind it is us from whom this freak drains his power on us. Trying to hunt him is giving him the power of voice and actions that he’s been having. You do as you feel fit. I am done with him already. He will be powerless as long as we do not give him the power. By himself he has no voice, he has said or done anything meaningful here. We have done everything for him. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mmmm. I guess I haven’t assessed so well the impact of some triggers like yours. The whole thing seems foreign to me. I can get that triggered in RL, but not by some words in a post. I mean, if a girl embarrassed me in front of a whole bunch of people, or if I was laughed at in a meeting, or something like this, I guess my first reaction was to stand up for myself, but there are some occasions in which I simply am not up to do it. There are occasions in which I feel so crappy that I would be run over by a situation like that. In those cases, I guess I would feel sore for a whole bunch of time. But here, maybe I have never been upset so strongly to feel the need to shut down the computer. But now you say it, I can grant that one must be kind to each other not to stir negatively others’ feelings.You say you didn’t need the additional stress, and I grant it. However, I do not think you were hurt. That is my point. It was your sensibility which couldn’t cope with that trigger, but nothing said here can add to our wounds. I strongly believe that. I think it would depend on what kind of coping skills you had at the time.
Exactly. It is all about them. I insist, no one is adding to your wounds, it is all about what you have inside already. When that happened to me, I had a great therapist who I’d been working with for quite awhile. I enormous trust in her. Also, it had been a couple of *years* since I’d dissociated. And because it had been so long, i was more used to being normal rather than dissociating. So it was far more uncomfortable and I think therefore, I was better able to pull out of it and know *what* to do (withdraw from the relationship). In a way, the event helped me because it helped solidify some of my newer coping skills.
Exactly. I have found that every single time I am actually hurt or suffer from any drawback in life, I resurface a bit more cappable and a little stronger. If I hadn’t had those coping skills, it might have had a cumulative effect. From what I understand about PTSD, each time you succumb to it, your brain becomes more used to it and thus it’s easier to succumb again. Like underwear elastic….you can take the spring out of it if you keep stretching it past it’s previous max.
I am a case of PTSD and it hasn’t een like that for me at all. Everytime something painful surfaces for me, can do something about it and the trauma at least gets dimminished. But I might not be a "typical" case, huh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s better to get out of the full blown episode as fast you can before you increase your tolerance to it (like the mythical frog in a pan of water). In my case, it’s easiest to see the cumulative effect when it comes to needles. Each time I feel traumatized by it, it just adds another "NO" in my brain. (thank you God for creating all the people involved in any way with inventing the pump and genetically altering e.coli to make my insulin!) Whenever I have a bad experience with needles, it makes it that much tougher to go in again. Tomorrow, I’m going to have to face my doc and explain why I didn’t get my blood tests done this time. I just couldn’t face the needle. It could be said that each single event with those needles didn’t really harm me or hurt me. But here I am today with 40 yrs’ worth of bad events leading up to a full blown phobia and insulin dependence to boot! Not a day goes by that I don’t have to deal with this. Finger pricking isn’t too bad, but years ago when my dad was diagnosed, I couldn’t even be in the ROOM when he tested himself. I don’t know the exact state of mind of Minx or Kym, but I can see that actual harm is definitely *possible*. BLAME, otoh, as in, assuming *intent* to harm. That’s what’s in question.
No, I do not think so. According to current social standards of degrees of responsibility, the intention is not as important as the action. You might not intend to hurt someone and if you do you have to pay. On the contrary, you might intend to hurt someon, and if you do nothing actually, you are not balmed. Just take the case of witchcraft. they intend to harm, but the law do not punish that. According with my standards, you might intend to harm one minute and at the next you don’t. I gues we are better to stick to the "facts" rule. The guy who hurt me, didn’t intend to. His neurosis collided with mine. Those doctors & nurses who hurt me, they didn’t intend to (those latter were just insensitive as hell). Did MM intend to? It looking not that way. But that doesn’t mean the women weren’t *hurt*. I think only in time will they even know if they were and be able to tell us whether or not they were.
Well, it seems the world ‘hurt" is taken with different meanings. To me, it is to add up to either your traumas or your internal wounds, and in that sense I am sure there was not damage. The other thing is to *feel* pain. That might be the case, but it doesn’t mean the pain is from a new wound or trauma, the wound or trauma which you feel were there to start with. In the sense that if you wee not wounded before the event, it wouldn’t hurt, that’s what I think. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip a whole bunch of very reasonable reasoning But putting before my eyes something I posted a lot of time ago for everyone to see, not even private, c’mon guys, you must be joking in calling that harm. Well. I don’t think I can cry "HARM". More like "FEAR". I don’t think that necessarily qualifies as harm. I just wish that I hadn’t been such a stupid newbie back ‘96. Wish I’d emailed cp instead of posting it. I don’t know. Newbies should have to use newbie-moderators for a while year before being given free reign to fuck up. :-) I suppse "fear" is also too strong a word. mmm no. It’s not too strong. That system-bath of adrenaline that I had for a week was real fear. Now it’s just regular ol’ vulnerability. And knowing that someone out there somewhere someday just might use that information to *really* hurt me. <snip the rest of the very reasonable reasoning anyway. As far as old stuff being reposted … When I was going through the worst of my healing, I wrote everything in a journal. When things would be feeling ok for me, I made the mistake of re-reading my journal. Big mistake. After the nth time of sending my fragile good mood plummeting for another month or so, I finally wised up and stopped re-reading them. Made a promise to myself not to read them until further notice. I still haven’t re-read them. And it’s been more than 10 years. Is it "harm"? Yes and no. It’s probably more "learning the hard way" Yes, when people are in a really fragile (or unhealed) state, it’s not good to take things from the past and waggle it in front of them. Unforeseen reactions happen. But, people stumble like that all the time. (Thor has stumbled on mine landmines several times. He got me through it by not backing away from me but instead pushing for more understanding. This is why I have such deep trust in him.) It’s hard to know people’s intentions. Especially online. I guess time will tell.
I guess a post like this one of yours would be in order when someone like elephant’s brain tries to shove your early stages of development in your face, instead of claiming getting hurt. Me also would be extremely upset if someone showed me a post from my early years of posting. I was terribly naive and with a bunch more defects than now. So, speaking for yourself, on how do you feel with it, and clearing the point that you have grown up a lot from those times is a neat thing to do. As I said in my post, I do not believe elephant’s brain should be applauded by his behaviour, but I do not thing he hurt Minx or Kym. That is my point. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been detached from ASD/F lately. The reasons are many. The main one is that I do not feel there is room for much else, but arguments and endless lucubrations about who is responsible for what. Other reasons are things like the floorings, like the posts disappearing, and to see MM and Connie even in my soup. I have slowly come to the conclusion that elephant’s brain is not really dangerous. There is no one apparently who has challenged the idea that he hurt some of our members, but although I got mad at what happened, I really do not think he really made that damage everyone is taking for granted. This is related to the issue that worries everybody. Is he responsible? is Rebecca responsible for making her room so hot that Stan cannot bear it. I think this analogy is too simplistic. In the first place, elephant’s brain only brought to the general attention something that was there for the general attention anyhow. In the second place, if that sets the posters of the original posts to shriek in horrour and retire, I do not think it is so much elephant’s brain so responsible of that reaction. On the issue of responsibility, my position is far off those who think (including elephant’s brain himself) that we can push someone to suicide. If I am in despair and a fly passes by or chooses to lay on my hand, and I get into a superlative tantrum ending in my suicide (remember the bugs torturer, because he went mad when flies buzzed in front of him?), I do not think the fly is much responsible for my reaction. On my path to recovery, I have been dealing with all the wounds which made me such a freak in many ways, and which at one stage in my life. Honestly, I never thought that so much damage could be made on someone. Honestly I do not know how I was able to survive to this point. My pdoc, some 10 years ago, thought I had a little chance of survival. And I am sure, that showing me a post I made many years before the general public would not make nor better or worse my situation, even if that post was embarrassing to me or revealed a painful stage in my life. These things do not really hurt. I would grant that perhaps it makes me feel or bring to the surface something I have in me, but I insist, my personal shit wouldn’t be made worse. Talk about traumas, talk about real harm like when you are abused sexually, or my wounds out of when my mother approached me with a smile and pretending to be sweet only with the agenda of hurting me. Talk about losing a beloved person, talk about your girlfriend aborting your child, talk about those issues, and I am with you that they can lead you to suicide if you are weak (wounded to start with). But putting before my eyes something I posted a lot of time ago for everyone to see, not even private, c’mon guys, you must be joking in calling that harm. I always have been against those you cannot even frown upon because they get all sore and resentful. Maybe their wounds are too on the surface, and I grant it can be highly upsetting for them. But, I have a very long road traveled along the direction of demanding others to be so subtle for me that they shouldn’t speak loud because it bothers me, or makes me angry, or it hurts, or I cannot bear it, etc. I got into such degrees of hate because I saw everyone simply gave a damn about disturbing me, that I was going insane. The only way out for me was to accept that I had no right to ask others to stop being themselves in order to please me. I can grant that elephant’s brain can hardly be seen as just being a normie posting that stuff. But I do not think that exposing me to something I did in the past before the public eye is hurting me. So, do I think elephant’s brain is to blame, well, yes, but for being such a jerk, for being that impertinent, for being socially distasteful, but not for hurting. And if some of us felt hurt, that’s some of us’ issues, not the wound that elephant’s brain supposedly inflicted. Beware that if you insist that elephant brain is to be hold responsible for Minx’s or Kim’s wounds, then you are also granting to him that we are responsible for the people who took their lives and posted here. You ought to bear in mind that this is a public forum, and that no credentials are asked for anyone to post here. so we do not have a meter to measure the degree of illness of the posters. many of them have proved to be so fucked up, that even commit suicide. If you pose the question of whether they had committed suicide not having posted here, I guess you will be going around in circles because we simply do not have a way to know. The only thing I can say is that if they encountered here the trigger that made them take such action, they were at risk at encountering it even in church, anywhere. To me, someone who posted here and committed suicide would be dead anyhow even if they hadn’t come here. Has it occurred to you that perhaps he delayed his decision on account of the support here? No, because we only tend to feel guilty, not well with ourselves because we also do other things right. The gratification we feel when a poster says: "thank you, what you said to me made a lot of difference to me", just fades away very soon. But the guilt keeps lingering for eternity and years to beyond. We are afraid of our mistakes, and when we see others failing we feel our responsibility to outcast the evil. I can grant that some trolls are a pain in the ass, and so give a lot of problems and outcasting them is just neat. Elephant’s brain is trollish, has disturbed the group to the extent that I blame him because I have made posts which I would like to see replied to have a conversation. How can be otherwise, if everybody is engaged in the MM’s issue full time? There are real time threads that almost go faster than I am able to catch up. I find them started and when I finish reading the last, there are several more, but the issue moves somewhere else, another thread with the same theme, elephant’s brain agenda, and everybody is full time on them. So, I dislike elephant’s brain for being such a jerk, but again, it is not his responsibility, because everybody chooses to be engaged in the eternal responsibility issue and what the obscure reasons elephant’s brain has to be in here. This is turning Kafkian, he states he has something in his sleeve, but he is fucking taking his bloody time to have ASD/F upside down swallowing his crap, and following wherever he wants to go. But I do not blame him for hurting. I do not buy that. This is turning long. I’ll just say that my position has nothing to do with the sympathy everybody is feeling for the loss of his brother. I know it is painful to lose a brother. But I felt more sorry because his father blew his brains in front of him when he was 8 years old. He shared this before, and no one extended a word of sympathy. The point is that his brother used to post here, and under those circumstances we can be sympathetic, huh? Now I tell you. I do not know whether his brother also was present when his father took his life, but this for me is trigger or trauma enough for him to commit suicide. And to be honest, I got the creeps when elephant’s brain shared this bit of information, and stopped being to pushy on him. Because I wouldn’t be surprised he blew his brains off just to make his point. I fear that kind of traumas would lead him to have such horrour displays. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email Read. Understood. Tired, but wanted to say that.
I can relate to you. Too much going around and around the same topics, huh? — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been detached from ASD/F lately. The reasons are many. The main one is that I do not feel there is room for much else, but arguments and endless lucubrations about who is responsible for what. Other reasons are things like the floorings, like the posts disappearing, and to see MM and Connie even in my soup. I have slowly come to the conclusion that elephant’s brain is not really dangerous. There is no one apparently who has challenged the idea that he hurt some of our members, but although I got mad at what happened, I really do not think he really made that damage everyone is taking for granted. This is related to the issue that worries everybody. Is he responsible? is Rebecca responsible for making her room so hot that Stan cannot bear it. I think this analogy is too simplistic. In the first place, elephant’s brain only brought to the general attention something that was there for the general attention anyhow. In the second place, if that sets the posters of the original posts to shriek in horrour and retire, I do not think it is so much elephant’s brain so responsible of that reaction. On the issue of responsibility, my position is far off those who think (including elephant’s brain himself) that we can push someone to suicide. If I am in despair and a fly passes by or chooses to lay on my hand, and I get into a superlative tantrum ending in my suicide (remember the bugs torturer, because he went mad when flies buzzed in front of him?), I do not think the fly is much responsible for my reaction. On my path to recovery, I have been dealing with all the wounds which made me such a freak in many ways, and which at one stage in my life. Honestly, I never thought that so much damage could be made on someone. Honestly I do not know how I was able to survive to this point. My pdoc, some 10 years ago, thought I had a little chance of survival. And I am sure, that showing me a post I made many years before the general public would not make nor better or worse my situation, even if that post was embarrassing to me or revealed a painful stage in my life. These things do not really hurt. I would grant that perhaps it makes me feel or bring to the surface something I have in me, but I insist, my personal shit wouldn’t be made worse. Talk about traumas, talk about real harm like when you are abused sexually, or my wounds out of when my mother approached me with a smile and pretending to be sweet only with the agenda of hurting me. Talk about losing a beloved person, talk about your girlfriend aborting your child, talk about those issues, and I am with you that they can lead you to suicide if you are weak (wounded to start with). But putting before my eyes something I posted a lot of time ago for everyone to see, not even private, c’mon guys, you must be joking in calling that harm. I always have been against those you cannot even frown upon because they get all sore and resentful. Maybe their wounds are too on the surface, and I grant it can be highly upsetting for them. But, I have a very long road traveled along the direction of demanding others to be so subtle for me that they shouldn’t speak loud because it bothers me, or makes me angry, or it hurts, or I cannot bear it, etc. I got into such degrees of hate because I saw everyone simply gave a damn about disturbing me, that I was going insane. The only way out for me was to accept that I had no right to ask others to stop being themselves in order to please me. I can grant that elephant’s brain can hardly be seen as just being a normie posting that stuff. But I do not think that exposing me to something I did in the past before the public eye is hurting me. So, do I think elephant’s brain is to blame, well, yes, but for being such a jerk, for being that impertinent, for being socially distasteful, but not for hurting. And if some of us felt hurt, that’s some of us’ issues, not the wound that elephant’s brain supposedly inflicted. Beware that if you insist that elephant brain is to be hold responsible for Minx’s or Kim’s wounds, then you are also granting to him that we are responsible for the people who took their lives and posted here. You ought to bear in mind that this is a public forum, and that no credentials are asked for anyone to post here. so we do not have a meter to measure the degree of illness of the posters. many of them have proved to be so fucked up, that even commit suicide. If you pose the question of whether they had committed suicide not having posted here, I guess you will be going around in circles because we simply do not have a way to know. The only thing I can say is that if they encountered here the trigger that made them take such action, they were at risk at encountering it even in church, anywhere. To me, someone who posted here and committed suicide would be dead anyhow even if they hadn’t come here. Has it occurred to you that perhaps he delayed his decision on account of the support here? No, because we only tend to feel guilty, not well with ourselves because we also do other things right. The gratification we feel when a poster says: "thank you, what you said to me made a lot of difference to me", just fades away very soon. But the guilt keeps lingering for eternity and years to beyond. We are afraid of our mistakes, and when we see others failing we feel our responsibility to outcast the evil. I can grant that some trolls are a pain in the ass, and so give a lot of problems and outcasting them is just neat. Elephant’s brain is trollish, has disturbed the group to the extent that I blame him because I have made posts which I would like to see replied to have a conversation. How can be otherwise, if everybody is engaged in the MM’s issue full time? There are real time threads that almost go faster than I am able to catch up. I find them started and when I finish reading the last, there are several more, but the issue moves somewhere else, another thread with the same theme, elephant’s brain agenda, and everybody is full time on them. So, I dislike elephant’s brain for being such a jerk, but again, it is not his responsibility, because everybody chooses to be engaged in the eternal responsibility issue and what the obscure reasons elephant’s brain has to be in here. This is turning Kafkian, he states he has something in his sleeve, but he is fucking taking his bloody time to have ASD/F upside down swallowing his crap, and following wherever he wants to go. But I do not blame him for hurting. I do not buy that. This is turning long. I’ll just say that my position has nothing to do with the sympathy everybody is feeling for the loss of his brother. I know it is painful to lose a brother. But I felt more sorry because his father blew his brains in front of him when he was 8 years old. He shared this before, and no one extended a word of sympathy. The point is that his brother used to post here, and under those circumstances we can be sympathetic, huh? Now I tell you. I do not know whether his brother also was present when his father took his life, but this for me is trigger or trauma enough for him to commit suicide. And to be honest, I got the creeps when elephant’s brain shared this bit of information, and stopped being to pushy on him. Because I wouldn’t be surprised he blew his brains off just to make his point. I fear that kind of traumas would lead him to have such horrour displays. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Read. Understood. Tired, but wanted to say that.
Response:
– Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been detached from ASD/F lately. The reasons are many. The main one is that I do not feel there is room for much else, but arguments and endless lucubrations about who is responsible for what. Other reasons are things like the floorings, like the posts disappearing, and to see MM and Connie even in my soup. I have slowly come to the conclusion that elephant’s brain is not really dangerous. There is no one apparently who has challenged the idea that he hurt some of our members, but although I got mad at what happened, I really do not think he really made that damage everyone is taking for granted. This is related to the issue that worries everybody. Is he responsible? is Rebecca responsible for making her room so hot that Stan cannot bear it. I think this analogy is too simplistic. In the first place, elephant’s brain only brought to the general attention something that was there for the general attention anyhow. In the second place, if that sets the posters of the original posts to shriek in horrour and retire, I do not think it is so much elephant’s brain so responsible of that reaction. On the issue of responsibility, my position is far off those who think (including elephant’s brain himself) that we can push someone to suicide. If I am in despair and a fly passes by or chooses to lay on my hand, and I get into a superlative tantrum ending in my suicide (remember the bugs torturer, because he went mad when flies buzzed in front of him?), I do not think the fly is much responsible for my reaction. On my path to recovery, I have been dealing with all the wounds which made me such a freak in many ways, and which at one stage in my life
I perhaps cut unconsciously the above sentence, and perhaps it is because I never shared it and I feel this is not the right timing. Among other things, Connie is here and is such an utter mass of infantile drives, and I am sure she will use it playfully to try to hurt as you say, but to me will only be nuisance more coming from her, so here it goes, complete it as: made me have a go trying to end it. Yep, and I planned it for two years. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I repeat, ASD is suffering from this witch hunt. Tell me about it. I’m going to wait and see what happens today but I’m thoroughly fed up with this place being hijacked by MM and the sock puppets and am ready to disappear myself until this is over. Too much migration, I am afraid. To my mind it is us from whom this freak drains his power on us. Trying to hunt him is giving him the power of voice and actions that he’s been having. You do as you feel fit. I am done with him already. He will be powerless as long as we do not give him the power. By himself he has no voice, he has said or done anything meaningful here. We have done everything for him. Good luck getting cooperation on this. Heather Actually, I don’t see him asking for cooperation. Sounds like he has made a decision for himself, and that he plans to follow through in his behavior. Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see him demanding that others behave as he wants to behave. And I don’t see him saying that his behaving this way is contingent on being joined by others.
Exactly. Nicely put. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial If you find a sandwich, eat it to email
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I repeat, ASD is suffering from this witch hunt. Tell me about it. I’m going to wait and see what happens today but I’m thoroughly fed up with this place being hijacked by MM and the sock puppets and am ready to disappear myself until this is over. Too much migration, I am afraid. To my mind it is us from whom this freak drains his power on us. Trying to hunt him is giving him the power of voice and actions that he’s been having. You do as you feel fit. I am done with him already. He will be powerless as long as we do not give him the power. By himself he has no voice, he has said or done anything meaningful here. We have done everything for him. Good luck getting cooperation on this. Heather
Actually, I don’t see him asking for cooperation. Sounds like he has made a decision for himself, and that he plans to follow through in his behavior. Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see him demanding that others behave as he wants to behave. And I don’t see him saying that his behaving this way is contingent on being joined by others.
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