Trauma – PTSD

Question:

Killfile him Kenn, that’s what I did. Whoever it is it has more problems than PTSD and hopefully there will be a way to track and punish trolls in the future. Larry L. "Kenn Capman" <si…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message

news:150920011358150526%sir54@earthlinkNOSPAM.net… > In article <2lu5qtkjh1mhn2el0jegdrgp7bf9n8q…@4ax.com>, Bill wrote:

——- cut due to good taste —— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I fail to see what this has to do with the topic thread. > It is one more attempt to push an anti-American/Palestinian agenda > in yet another inappropriate forum. > We’ve had enough of that in the past week. > Let’s get back on the topic at hand.

Response:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:57:45 GMT, Kenn Capman <si…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote: >I fail to see what this has to do with the topic thread. >It is one more attempt to push an anti-American/Palestinian agenda >in yet another inappropriate forum. >We’ve had enough of that in the past week. >Let’s get back on the topic at hand.

This article was posted as a reply to Lyonlass’ comments. I don’t believe it’s anti-American or pro-Palestinian – it’s anti-war… which is a major creator of PSTD.

Response:

War has been a part of human society for thousands of years; it ain’t going away so you may as well get used to it. At least this one is in a just cause. ‘We have aroused a sleeping lion. You may be sure that its anger will be terrible’ Japanese Imperial Admiral Yamato after Pearl Harbor)

Response:

On 15 Sep 2001 23:55:09 GMT, ad841…@aol.com (Ad841164) wrote: >War has been a part of human society for thousands of years; it ain’t going >away so you may as well get used to it. At least this one is in a just cause.

We thought the earth was flat for thousands of years too.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <2lu5qtkjh1mhn2el0jegdrgp7bf9n8q…@4ax.com>, Bill wrote: > From a newspaper article on U.S. funding of "freedom fighters"… > "The proxy war in Afghanistan between the Soviets and the United > States lasted until nine years ago. Soviet troops actually withdrew in > February 1989, but each side went on supplying arms to their > surrogates. That ended, by agreement on January 1, 1992. Three months > later, in April, the last of a string of Moscow-backed governments > over the years fell, finally, to the mujahideen. By 1995 the Taliban, > one of the hardline fundamentalist Islamic factions, had wrested > nominal power among the often violent coalition of mujahideen groups. > They have held it ever since. Osama bin Laden remains one of the > Taliban’s wealthiest backers, as well as head of his radical Al-Qaeda > ("the Base") group. > And who financed the growth of these various Islamic groups? > Of course – the Americans. The Carter administration, using the CIA, > began channelling tens of millions of dollars to various mujahideen > factions in 1979, and the Reagan and Bush governments went on doing so > right through the 1980s. To Reagan’s administration they weren’t > "terrorist" groups, but "freedom fighters". And among the seven > identified mujahideen parties operating out of Pakistan in opposition > to the Afghan regime and its Soviet army supporters by the end of 1982 > was the radical fundamentalist Islamic Union for the Liberation of > Afghanistan, whose financial backers at the time included bin Laden. > There is no evidence US funds over the years went to this group, > though according to the public record, five of the other six > mujahideen groups of the period were financed by US, Saudi, Pakistan > and Iranian funds dispersed by the Pakistan Army’s Inter-Services > Intelligence (ISI) directorate, the official distributor of American > "aid" based on Pakistani political preferences. It is Pakistan more > than any Islamic country Washington must now deal with in its hunt for > those behind this week’s cataclysmic violence, whoever they are. > Yet the irony of American aid and comfort over two decades to militant > Islamic nationalism, in the name of "freedom fighters" opposing > communism, should escape nobody. As one mid-1990s briefing paper for > Australian MPs put it after the basement bomb explosion in 1993 in New > York’s now obliterated World Trade Centre: "With regard to the > international and regional impact of the Afghan conflict, there is, in > the words of Jack Blum, a former special counsel to the US Senate > Foreign Relations Committee, a ‘disposal problem’. Said Blum: ‘What > used to be containable because it was local and tribal now gets on a > plane and heads for New York.’" > It is to the US’s incalculable shame that Blum’s words were not given > greater attention. Eight years later it remains a "disposal problem", > just as some group or other of fanatics willing to give their lives – > and those of several thousand others – for a political cause have > indeed got on a plane and headed for New York – and Washington, too. > And all the fine rhetoric as well as the wrenching grief cannot > obscure the simple fact it is the United States’ own behaviour, as > well as past official Washington foreign policy, that is, in large > part, likely responsible for what has happened. > At no time, ever, has Washington given legitimacy to Islamic > interests, be it in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, > or wherever. Or, of course, in what the Israelis have made their > country, by whatever means, at the expense of what used to be > Palestine and its dispossessed people."

I fail to see what this has to do with the topic thread. It is one more attempt to push an anti-American/Palestinian agenda in yet another inappropriate forum. We’ve had enough of that in the past week. Let’s get back on the topic at hand.

Response:

I attended to a fatality accident. During the assistance my adrenalin was high and I did not think of it. When the scene was wrapping up and I was gathering my tools that were of assistance to a firefighter who stopped as well I just about woofed my cookies on the side of the road. Being in the action I was ok but seeing pictures or after the action my anxiety goes ballistic. Jim "Lawrence Lusk" <lelvn…@charter.net> wrote in message

news:tq510n5us2qv4f@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t think that reporters and the "talking heads" are really human. They > never show any real emotion, get PTSD or seem to really care how someone > else is feeling at the moment. The story is all that is important. I hate to > wish anyone ill but…. > Larry L. > "Ad841164" <ad841…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20010914180247.07480.00000307@mb-cl.aol.com… > > After my involvement in an incident many times smaller than the WTC, I > lived > > for 12 years with undiagnosed PTSD. You are right to say that help must > > practically be forced on those personnel who are in the clear-up. I tried > the’ > > macho cop’ routine; it didn’t work and it nearly killed me. > > Psychological fall-out from the WTC and Pentagon incidents is inevitable; > let > > us just hope that it can be limited by recognising that those toiling in > the > > debris are not robots. > > Meanwhile, I have’nt stopped gloating over the news that news reporters > are > > being arrested for trying to sneak onto the site to take photographs. So > often > > have I wanted to wring those bastards necks …

Response:

From a newspaper article on U.S. funding of "freedom fighters"… "The proxy war in Afghanistan between the Soviets and the United States lasted until nine years ago. Soviet troops actually withdrew in February 1989, but each side went on supplying arms to their surrogates. That ended, by agreement on January 1, 1992. Three months later, in April, the last of a string of Moscow-backed governments over the years fell, finally, to the mujahideen. By 1995 the Taliban, one of the hardline fundamentalist Islamic factions, had wrested nominal power among the often violent coalition of mujahideen groups. They have held it ever since. Osama bin Laden remains one of the Taliban’s wealthiest backers, as well as head of his radical Al-Qaeda ("the Base") group. And who financed the growth of these various Islamic groups? Of course – the Americans. The Carter administration, using the CIA, began channelling tens of millions of dollars to various mujahideen factions in 1979, and the Reagan and Bush governments went on doing so right through the 1980s. To Reagan’s administration they weren’t "terrorist" groups, but "freedom fighters". And among the seven identified mujahideen parties operating out of Pakistan in opposition to the Afghan regime and its Soviet army supporters by the end of 1982 was the radical fundamentalist Islamic Union for the Liberation of Afghanistan, whose financial backers at the time included bin Laden. There is no evidence US funds over the years went to this group, though according to the public record, five of the other six mujahideen groups of the period were financed by US, Saudi, Pakistan and Iranian funds dispersed by the Pakistan Army’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate, the official distributor of American "aid" based on Pakistani political preferences. It is Pakistan more than any Islamic country Washington must now deal with in its hunt for those behind this week’s cataclysmic violence, whoever they are. Yet the irony of American aid and comfort over two decades to militant Islamic nationalism, in the name of "freedom fighters" opposing communism, should escape nobody. As one mid-1990s briefing paper for Australian MPs put it after the basement bomb explosion in 1993 in New York’s now obliterated World Trade Centre: "With regard to the international and regional impact of the Afghan conflict, there is, in the words of Jack Blum, a former special counsel to the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a ‘disposal problem’. Said Blum: ‘What used to be containable because it was local and tribal now gets on a plane and heads for New York.’" It is to the US’s incalculable shame that Blum’s words were not given greater attention. Eight years later it remains a "disposal problem", just as some group or other of fanatics willing to give their lives – and those of several thousand others – for a political cause have indeed got on a plane and headed for New York – and Washington, too. And all the fine rhetoric as well as the wrenching grief cannot obscure the simple fact it is the United States’ own behaviour, as well as past official Washington foreign policy, that is, in large part, likely responsible for what has happened. At no time, ever, has Washington given legitimacy to Islamic interests, be it in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, or wherever. Or, of course, in what the Israelis have made their country, by whatever means, at the expense of what used to be Palestine and its dispossessed people." On 15 Sep 2001 01:43:54 GMT, lyonl…@aol.com (LyonLass) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have heard ptsd mentioned several times in reports over the last few days and >am  relieved that many will get help right away and many won’t be walking >around for years afterwards wondering what the hell is the matter with them. >I cannot stand to be still and have buried myself in gaining knowledge about >the prime suspect, bin ladan. >According to reports I have read he is responsible for: >Feb 1993- world trade center bombing (warm up) 6 killed, 1000 injured >Oct 93- 2 U.S. helicopters shot down by local Somali groups. 18 U.S. soldiers >dead >Dec 94-Philippine airlines bombing, explosives tore hole in aircraft. 1 dead, >10 injured >June 96- Bombing of Khobar Towers, U.S. military complex in Saudi Arabia. 19 >dead, hundreds injured. >Aug 98- Bombings of U.S. embassies in Narobi, Kenya, and Tanzania. 235 dead, >5500 injured >Dec 98- 16 western tourists taken hostage by Yemeni tribesman. Shoot out leaves >4 dead, 12 wounded. >So this guy has been around awhile, is a known threat. >In a 1998 CNN interview bin ladan declared "All americans targets". >Other statements he made are >’It is not permissible for any non-muslim to stay in our country". " America >wants to occupy our countries, steal our resources". >Afghanistan is the perfect place for him to hide out. Life expectancy there is >46 years and the per capita income is $800. >The U.S. embassy in Afghanistan has been closed since Jan 1989 because of >security reasons, yet in 1997 the U.S. gave them $70 million in economic aid >and in the years since has led the UN in programs to assist food, >immunizations, land mine removal, and refugee assistance. >Bin ladan is pissed at the Saudi government who has declared him too radical >and wants the Jews out of Israel. >And americans pay the price.

Response:

I don’t think that reporters and the "talking heads" are really human. They never show any real emotion, get PTSD or seem to really care how someone else is feeling at the moment. The story is all that is important. I hate to wish anyone ill but…. Larry L. "Ad841164" <ad841…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010914180247.07480.00000307@mb-cl.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After my involvement in an incident many times smaller than the WTC, I lived > for 12 years with undiagnosed PTSD. You are right to say that help must > practically be forced on those personnel who are in the clear-up. I tried the’ > macho cop’ routine; it didn’t work and it nearly killed me. > Psychological fall-out from the WTC and Pentagon incidents is inevitable; let > us just hope that it can be limited by recognising that those toiling in the > debris are not robots. > Meanwhile, I have’nt stopped gloating over the news that news reporters are > being arrested for trying to sneak onto the site to take photographs. So often > have I wanted to wring those bastards necks …

Response:

Hi Ad: In most part, I agree about the reporters…except one lady last night who was interviewing those trying to find there loved ones..and tears filled her eyes and compassion showed as she actually cried.  How wonderful she is "Human!" I wish I could cry!  Somewhere, we men are told it is "not manly" to cry!   I believe that was a total injustice to us men!  I, as many here do, watch the TV, fixated to the rescue workers (as I have done that too) and know what they will see…and eventually "smell".  There is no way to tell anybody about smell or feel with dead bodies.  There is no human on earth who, if in that situation, will ever forget it, let alone recover from it.  They may say they have outwardly, but deep inside it is always there.  I know! Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ad841164 wrote: > After my involvement in an incident many times smaller than the WTC, I  lived > for 12 years with undiagnosed PTSD. You are right to say that help must > practically be forced on those personnel who are in the clear-up. I tried the’ > macho cop’ routine; it didn’t work and it nearly killed me. > Psychological fall-out from the WTC and Pentagon incidents is inevitable; let > us just hope that it can be limited by recognising that those toiling in the > debris are not robots. > Meanwhile, I have’nt stopped gloating over the news that news reporters are > being arrested for trying to sneak onto the site to take photographs. So often > have I wanted to wring those bastards necks …

Response:

I have heard ptsd mentioned several times in reports over the last few days and am  relieved that many will get help right away and many won’t be walking around for years afterwards wondering what the hell is the matter with them. I cannot stand to be still and have buried myself in gaining knowledge about the prime suspect, bin ladan. According to reports I have read he is responsible for: Feb 1993- world trade center bombing (warm up) 6 killed, 1000 injured Oct 93- 2 U.S. helicopters shot down by local Somali groups. 18 U.S. soldiers dead Dec 94-Philippine airlines bombing, explosives tore hole in aircraft. 1 dead, 10 injured June 96- Bombing of Khobar Towers, U.S. military complex in Saudi Arabia. 19 dead, hundreds injured. Aug 98- Bombings of U.S. embassies in Narobi, Kenya, and Tanzania. 235 dead, 5500 injured Dec 98- 16 western tourists taken hostage by Yemeni tribesman. Shoot out leaves 4 dead, 12 wounded. So this guy has been around awhile, is a known threat. In a 1998 CNN interview bin ladan declared "All americans targets". Other statements he made are ‘It is not permissible for any non-muslim to stay in our country". " America wants to occupy our countries, steal our resources". Afghanistan is the perfect place for him to hide out. Life expectancy there is 46 years and the per capita income is $800. The U.S. embassy in Afghanistan has been closed since Jan 1989 because of security reasons, yet in 1997 the U.S. gave them $70 million in economic aid and in the years since has led the UN in programs to assist food, immunizations, land mine removal, and refugee assistance. Bin ladan is pissed at the Saudi government who has declared him too radical and wants the Jews out of Israel. And americans pay the price.

Response:

Whilst everyone is naturally focussing primarily on the ‘civilian’ dead and injured right now, please also spare a thought for those who will (literally) be picking up the pieces, the police, firefighters and medical staff. As a retired cop with chronic ptsd I cannot watch the current news without going ‘hyper’, yet somehow I can’t resist the urge to sit and watch it. I also get consumed with anger towards the vermin who did it. Have to end this e-mail- can feel heart start to race…   ‘ Live every day as if it were your last and one day you’re sure to be right’  Semper Vigilo

Response:

I thought first about the firefighters and police. The dead are dead and those who made it out alive have a frightening hour or so to deal with (not belittling this, most will need help ASAP). Those who are digging for the victims, some of which were close friends, will have a much more difficult time because so much of their emotions about what has happened they have had to stuff away for the time being. I have been watching and watching but can’t let myself feel anything (cause of my flashback?). None of those involved will be the same again, not in the sense and way it will be for our society as a whole, but in a very profound and personal way that only someone else with PTSD can begin to understand. I hope they get the help they need, forced if necessary (some will try to refuse the help). How many more before this is over? Larry L. "Ad841164" <ad841…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010914164947.16416.00000064@mb-fr.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Whilst everyone is naturally focussing primarily on the ‘civilian’ dead and > injured right now, please also spare a thought for those who will (literally) > be picking up the pieces, the police, firefighters and medical staff. As a > retired cop with chronic ptsd I cannot watch the current news without going > ‘hyper’, yet somehow I can’t resist the urge to sit and watch it. I also get > consumed with anger towards the vermin who did it. Have to end this e-mail- can > feel heart start to race… >   ‘ Live every day as if it were your last and one day you’re sure to be right’ >  Semper Vigilo

Response:

After my involvement in an incident many times smaller than the WTC, I  lived for 12 years with undiagnosed PTSD. You are right to say that help must practically be forced on those personnel who are in the clear-up. I tried the’ macho cop’ routine; it didn’t work and it nearly killed me. Psychological fall-out from the WTC and Pentagon incidents is inevitable; let us just hope that it can be limited by recognising that those toiling in the debris are not robots. Meanwhile, I have’nt stopped gloating over the news that news reporters are being arrested for trying to sneak onto the site to take photographs. So often have I wanted to wring those bastards necks …

Response:

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