Question:
If adultery is the wake up call for many couples then I would rather stay asleep. I’m sure alot of marriages can live through such a breach of trust and fidelity, mine could not. Daisy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. karen
Response:
Thank you one more time Daisy! I don’t know where these people come from who honestly believe cheating is ok in a marriage. Then to turn it around and blame the spouse is the most heartbreaking and sickening part of a life that is supposed to be shared by two, not three people. I do applaud you. I would rather be asleep too. If life is to be lived, not just tolerated, why would anyone want to tolerate such horrid behavior from someone who took those vows the same as we did? Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If adultery is the wake up call for many couples then I would rather stay asleep. I’m sure alot of marriages can live through such a breach of trust and fidelity, mine could not. Daisy I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. karen
Response:
I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened.
Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. karen
Response:
She’s right. You can’t lay blame on the spouse who has been wronged. If you want to fuck around, you should leave your wife/husband first. DIVORCE THEM. Adultery is wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. I am not talking biblical. Just ethically. Morally. Wrong. geesh, people. Have you ever been cheated on by someone you love? It’s like having someone rip your fucking heart out with a spoon. and then stomp on it as you lie there watching. really. IT SUCKS! It certainly broke up my marriage. Heather I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. You say because he doesn’t have an open mind he lost house, child etc. To add that he worked all the time and didn’t earn enough is a most disgusting excuse for you to go whoring around. I work lots of hours and "he" gave that same sorry excuse. What kind of people are you. Thoughtless, uncaring, unfeeling wretches. I don’t know how you and he can look yourselves in the mirror every day. Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria
ICQ# 24665637
Response:
If adultery is the wake up call for many couples then I would rather stay asleep. I’m sure alot of marriages can live through such a breach of trust and fidelity, mine could not. Daisy
Mine couldn’t either Daisy. So I left. Heather ICQ# 24665637
Response:
YEAH WHAT SHE SAID! Heather – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thank you one more time Daisy! I don’t know where these people come from who honestly believe cheating is ok in a marriage. Then to turn it around and blame the spouse is the most heartbreaking and sickening part of a life that is supposed to be shared by two, not three people. I do applaud you. I would rather be asleep too. If life is to be lived, not just tolerated, why would anyone want to tolerate such horrid behavior from someone who took those vows the same as we did? Gloria
ICQ# 24665637
Response:
I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved.
I saw a show once (20/20) or something on this, and it showed quite clearly that the minority survive, and the ones that do, are forever changed because of it, and not necessarily for the better. A few might be better for it, but the vast majority are not. People are hurt deeply by this ….. PSTD. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. – karen
I actually agree with this … yet:this has little to do with the original thread which has more to do with an affair, betrayal, — and her attitude that it shouldn’t of been a big deal, " get over it " sort of thing. I think that is fine, if a couple agree to allow infidelity. That is your contract, and wish u the best. This is about betrayal — As the show above, and innumerable examples in our literature, psychology, and history books show — (even if u feel this is a human fault (we are human remember)) — is that it is betrayal — and it hurts a lot. Not something that is impossible to get over — but something that makes a huge hurdle that wouldn’t have been there, if not for the affair I can almost guarantee, that we would still be married today — and happy — if it had not been for her affair. — I could almost tell u that I could of loved her, even after the affair — I just never got the chance to try. Did i ever have the chance, — no — the reason — she was in love with someone else. — a classic case study where an affair did break a marriage. — As someone posted many moons ago — and I’ve reposted a few times since; " It’s easy to throw away something that needs work, especially when you hold in your hand it’s shiny new replacement. — Jeff M" IMHO — BillBo — Bill Borsodi .’ ‘. __ http://home.ArkansasUSA.com/bborsodi/ . . -{{_(|8) ICQ: 4673467 AOL IM: BillB0777 ‘ . . ‘ ‘ . . ‘ (__/` alt.support.Divorce Resource List is at: http://home.ArkansasUSA.com/bborsodi/divorcer.html Reply-to e-mail address masked. Replace ? with billbo=real address
Response:
Then your guess would be wrong. Robert M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – they are all adulterers there they must come here to Earth to fuck over genuine people. Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria Gloria and Robert, I would guess your spouses left you because of your narrow, nasty, belligerent attitudes. karen
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I once saw a video tape on how to handle stress, by training yourself to adjust your level of reaction appropriately. The technique was to try to mentally compare the stressor with some sort of physical pain, such as burning your hand, or cutting your arm off or something. So, in discovering I had been betrayed, which of course, isn’t a one-time stressor, but one that continues to be a stressor for perhaps months, I did try to imagine what sort of physical ailment I would have gladly taken on if it meant the betrayal would have never happened. Lose an arm, sure, that’s better. Lose a leg. yeah, that’s better too. Well, how about broken back without paralysis, but months of back pain and surgery and recovery. Yeah, that’s better too. (BTW, the back pain part I know firsthand.) I wouldn’t dare pretend to think I could compare the brutal rape you mention against the pain of betrayal. But let’s say betrayal is definitely very bad. It’s invisible, so the pain is not as obvious as a shattered body, and you usually don’t go the hospital to recuperate and nobody sends you flowers or get well cards. And you don’t think you are going to get well, but even if you do think so, you have no idea of how long it takes to heal. And needless to say, there’s always a bunch of folks ready to tell you it’s all in your head and you don’t have to take it so hard, or you ought to be over it by now. When you’re obviously a victim of an accident or a crime, people come out of the woodwork to console you. When you’re a victim of betrayal, people disappear _into_ the woodwork. You often discover you were not only betrayed by your S.O., but a lot of your friends who knew, and your S.O.’s coworkers who knew. Subsequently, you are again betrayed by the seeming lack of support from people you thought were your friends. (And _that_ I’m sure is what propels total strangers to participate in this newsgroup.) So, yes, there are many other bad things in the world, but betrayal is often under-emphasized. – Dan Daugherty
I agree with your points here Dan — especially the "betrayal is often under-emphasized" — point. I believe it is to — not that I could of said this before I was betrayed… Now it is very clear what this is, how it feels, what it causes in the way of depression, nightmares, stresses etc. — I steadily went to counseling for 5 years, resorted to meds in the first year, feel like I’ve aged tremendously, my hair turned gray. — This was something I would not wish on my worst enemy (cept the ex — hehe) — All kiddin aside, this is serious stuff. — Wish I had the source — somewhere I read the five worst things that could happen to an individual, and divorce was one of them (amongst losing a loved one, going to jail, rape, and ? war maybe?) — There is reason why it’s there. Divorce combined with betrayal is a horrible thing — incredibly stressful. — quite often under-emphasized. BillBo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hiya Bill, I know how awful intimate betrayal is, been there myself. I can’t imagine that a person on this planet hasn’t been on the receiving end of that betrayal at some time in their lives, even if only as teens. And I’d never minimize how heart wrenching that experience is for the person who is blind-sided by a partner’s betrayal. But I’m confused about the PTSD reference below. People are actually saying that adultery causes PTSD in the cheated-on spouse? I know that for every opinion in the mental health field you can find a countering opinion that seems just as validated (since its a "soft" science where the standard of validation is lower). So I guess I’m not surprised people might say they were experiencing PTSD from this awful life experience. But as a person who has been diagnosed with lifetime PTSD (the neural pathways have been permanently and irrevocably damaged, I’ll always need medication to balance the damage to the brain) from a violent crime, somehow I find it insulting that the diagnosis is being used for marital infidelity. Does that make sense? Not that I want to take anything away from anyone’s pain. Just that I think there’s something not quite right about comparing the two – marital betrayal and 4 days of captivity while being brutalized, raped, cut, threatened, and nearly killed. Your feedback is appreciated on this. As well as any web sites or other refs you might have that I could go look up that support the diagnosis of PTSD in these cases of partner betrayal. I know I’m less than objective on this topic, but I’m always trying to learn new things. Janie <snip I saw a show once (20/20) or something on this, and it showed quite clearly that the minority survive, and the ones that do, are forever changed because of it, and not necessarily for the better. A few might be better for it, but the vast majority are not. People are hurt deeply by this ….. PSTD. <snip IMHO — BillBo — There is a vast difference between putting your nose in other people’s business and putting your heart in other people’s problems. To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224
Bill Borsodi .’ ‘. __ http://home.ArkansasUSA.com/bborsodi/ . . -{{_(|8) ICQ: 4673467 AOL IM: BillB0777 ‘ . . ‘ ‘ . . ‘ (__/` alt.support.Divorce Resource List is at: http://home.ArkansasUSA.com/bborsodi/divorcer.html Reply-to e-mail address masked. Replace ? with billbo=real address
Response:
Not as grey as your character seems to be. If your talking about an open marriage where you are both cut from the same cloth there can’t be infidelity any way. If you are reserving the right for yourself to be unfaithful to an unknowing and opposite viewed mate…..well you kinda make my skin crawl…..when is your ship returning to the dark planet from which you came? Robbert M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – they have a desire to do so. It is very simple to do – right is right. WIt is infidelity that is not what it’s cracked up to be. Couples can be faithful if rong is wrong. Maybe some people (myself included) don’t find it wrong or immoral. Morality is a very individual thing and to sweepingly say that it is wrong, denies everyone their own definiton. What works for me, may not work for you and I accept that. I would not break a marriage up over infidelity. There are a lot of gray areas in life, and in my estimation, this is one of the grayest. karen
Response:
I’m sorry man, I don’t think you understood me at all. But I’m not feeling particularly wise or patient right now, so I’m not going to explain it. Don’t try to make sense of the games. I did, and all got me was frustration and a lot of people thinking I’d gone off the deep end. charlie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The whole process seems to be designed to force us to play by rules we don’t quite understand, and then to criticize us because we don’t play as well as our female partners. No wonder so many men get frustrated and decide to stop playing altogether! Damn it Charlie you absolutely right!!! … and "a wise ass" too if I may…:) But tell me this, if she wants to divorce so bad then why: – Call me at midnight to tell me about some CDs she bought we use to listen to and whether the dog is sleeping with me in the bedroom or not. – Drives by the house at night for no apparent reason – Calls and hangs up every saturday and sunday afternoon, during the week the caller ID doesnt stop blinking in the evenings – Calls to say she is sick and wants to talk about whats new – Calls and asks me whats wrong because I am cold and doesnt return her calls – When I finally return her 3 days in arrow calls, she thanks me for calling back but only wanted to know what she had in the mail and let me know that she is going on a week end in the mountains …. and the list could go on and on….. And there’s no adultery story or abuse… She has to find herself she said and learn to depend on herself. When I finally crushed my ego down and asks her to work things out she declines abruptly — I then replied to stop calling and restrict contacts to a minimum, which of course pissed her off, and I guess that’s exactly the behavior you are referring to in your post. She reduced drastically her calls, I still get funny hung ups at work, and still called for a lousy 3 dollars difference on my share of a bill And 2 more hang ups yesterday and today which is our 5th wedding anniversary… how’s that for a game…?? the reason tells you that the game has to stop one way or the other and the heart wonders and wanders again; sometimes I really think men are so weak and soft when it comes to dealing with this kind of feelings. So what do you think "Wise man" 
? S.U. PS: Seriously I really enjoyed reading your post… "Just state how unhappy you, make an attempt to work it out, if that doesn’t work, file for a divorce. Simple as that." No, it isn’t. There is still one self-delusional ploy to watch out for. "Working it out" should not be equivalent to "getting your way." But the same tendency to rationalize our decision to divorce also leads us to think that because our partners are stubbornly insisting on their viewpoint, their desires, their autononomy, we’re justified in concluding that they’re not willing to work on the problem — that is, the problem as *we* have defined it and for which we have already unilaterally decided what will count as an acceptable solution, not to mention what will count as "working on it." Most men aren’t in the habit of speaking the language of women’s magazines and relationship books, and we’re not adept in the comforting rituals of the "girl’s club". Yet all too often, the request to work on the problem amounts to a demand that we acknowledge what seems to be considered the self-evident superiority of those ways. We’re dragged into sessions and badgered until we’re "ready to talk". (Funny, those are the same words which used to be used in those old gangster movies. You know, the ones where the cops take the hood into the back room: "Are you ready to talk, Rico? No? <slap How about now?") The whole process seems to be designed to force us to play by rules we don’t quite understand, and then to criticize us because we don’t play as well as our female partners. No wonder so many men get frustrated and decide to stop playing altogether! Sorry for the rant. I’m in a curmudgeonly mood this morning. If I seem to be picking on women more than men, that’s probably because it’s easier to see the mote in someone else’s eye than the log in my own. charlie
Response:
I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. You say because he doesn’t have an open mind he lost house, child etc. To add that he worked all the time and didn’t earn enough is a most disgusting excuse for you to go whoring around. I work lots of hours and "he" gave that same sorry excuse. What kind of people are you. Thoughtless, uncaring, unfeeling wretches. I don’t know how you and he can look yourselves in the mirror every day. Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria
Response:
I think your description is apt. I think the reason that adultery can be so traumatic to someone who was totally blind-sided by it is because you were hurt by someone you cherished rather than by a stranger. And, there are different levels of adultery – the prolonged affair (and the subsequent diminishing of the cheated-on spouse) or a one night stand. A slow torture where you are completely broken after years of diminishing could leave a person with pretty permanent scars. I guess a lot of it has to do with emotional resilience too. Some people can walk away from a brutal attack and accept it, mourn it, get beyond it. Others won’t. In the same way, some people can rebound from an abusive relationship – wiser and stronger. Others won’t. Healing depends on the person, his/her environment, the level of support he/she receives, etc. And, if you keep picking your scabs, healing will take longer and you’ll end up with more scars too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I once saw a video tape on how to handle stress, by training yourself to adjust your level of reaction appropriately. The technique was to try to mentally compare the stressor with some sort of physical pain, such as burning your hand, or cutting your arm off or something. So, in discovering I had been betrayed, which of course, isn’t a one-time stressor, but one that continues to be a stressor for perhaps months, I did try to imagine what sort of physical ailment I would have gladly taken on if it meant the betrayal would have never happened. Lose an arm, sure, that’s better. Lose a leg. yeah, that’s better too. Well, how about broken back without paralysis, but months of back pain and surgery and recovery. Yeah, that’s better too. (BTW, the back pain part I know firsthand.) I wouldn’t dare pretend to think I could compare the brutal rape you mention against the pain of betrayal. But let’s say betrayal is definitely very bad. It’s invisible, so the pain is not as obvious as a shattered body, and you usually don’t go the hospital to recuperate and nobody sends you flowers or get well cards. And you don’t think you are going to get well, but even if you do think so, you have no idea of how long it takes to heal. And needless to say, there’s always a bunch of folks ready to tell you it’s all in your head and you don’t have to take it so hard, or you ought to be over it by now. When you’re obviously a victim of an accident or a crime, people come out of the woodwork to console you. When you’re a victim of betrayal, people disappear _into_ the woodwork. You often discover you were not only betrayed by your S.O., but a lot of your friends who knew, and your S.O.’s coworkers who knew. Subsequently, you are again betrayed by the seeming lack of support from people you thought were your friends. (And _that_ I’m sure is what propels total strangers to participate in this newsgroup.) So, yes, there are many other bad things in the world, but betrayal is often under-emphasized. — Dan Daugherty Hiya Bill, I know how awful intimate betrayal is, been there myself. I can’t imagine that a person on this planet hasn’t been on the receiving end of that betrayal at some time in their lives, even if only as teens. And I’d never minimize how heart wrenching that experience is for the person who is blind-sided by a partner’s betrayal. But I’m confused about the PTSD reference below. People are actually saying that adultery causes PTSD in the cheated-on spouse? I know that for every opinion in the mental health field you can find a countering opinion that seems just as validated (since its a "soft" science where the standard of validation is lower). So I guess I’m not surprised people might say they were experiencing PTSD from this awful life experience. But as a person who has been diagnosed with lifetime PTSD (the neural pathways have been permanently and irrevocably damaged, I’ll always need medication to balance the damage to the brain) from a violent crime, somehow I find it insulting that the diagnosis is being used for marital infidelity. Does that make sense? Not that I want to take anything away from anyone’s pain. Just that I think there’s something not quite right about comparing the two – marital betrayal and 4 days of captivity while being brutalized, raped, cut, threatened, and nearly killed. Your feedback is appreciated on this. As well as any web sites or other refs you might have that I could go look up that support the diagnosis of PTSD in these cases of partner betrayal. I know I’m less than objective on this topic, but I’m always trying to learn new things. Janie <snip I saw a show once (20/20) or something on this, and it showed quite clearly that the minority survive, and the ones that do, are forever changed because of it, and not necessarily for the better. A few might be better for it, but the vast majority are not. People are hurt deeply by this ….. PSTD. <snip IMHO — BillBo — There is a vast difference between putting your nose in other people’s business and putting your heart in other people’s problems. To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224
Response:
they are all adulterers there they must come here to Earth to fuck over genuine people.
Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria
Gloria and Robert, I would guess your spouses left you because of your narrow, nasty, belligerent attitudes. karen
Response:
It is infidelity that is not what it’s cracked up to be. Couples can be faithful if they have a desire to do so. It is very simple to do – right is right. Wrong is wrong.
Maybe some people (myself included) don’t find it wrong or immoral. Morality is a very individual thing and to sweepingly say that it is wrong, denies everyone their own definiton. What works for me, may not work for you and I accept that. I would not break a marriage up over infidelity. There are a lot of gray areas in life, and in my estimation, this is one of the grayest. karen
Response:
The whole process seems to be designed to force us to play by rules we don’t quite understand, and then to criticize us because we don’t play as well as our female partners. No wonder so many men get frustrated and decide to stop playing altogether!
Damn it Charlie you absolutely right!!! … and "a wise ass" too if I may…:) But tell me this, if she wants to divorce so bad then why: - Call me at midnight to tell me about some CDs she bought we use to listen to and whether the dog is sleeping with me in the bedroom or not. - Drives by the house at night for no apparent reason - Calls and hangs up every saturday and sunday afternoon, during the week the caller ID doesnt stop blinking in the evenings - Calls to say she is sick and wants to talk about whats new - Calls and asks me whats wrong because I am cold and doesnt return her calls - When I finally return her 3 days in arrow calls, she thanks me for calling back but only wanted to know what she had in the mail and let me know that she is going on a week end in the mountains …. and the list could go on and on….. And there’s no adultery story or abuse… She has to find herself she said and learn to depend on herself. When I finally crushed my ego down and asks her to work things out she declines abruptly — I then replied to stop calling and restrict contacts to a minimum, which of course pissed her off, and I guess that’s exactly the behavior you are referring to in your post. She reduced drastically her calls, I still get funny hung ups at work, and still called for a lousy 3 dollars difference on my share of a bill And 2 more hang ups yesterday and today which is our 5th wedding anniversary… how’s that for a game…?? the reason tells you that the game has to stop one way or the other and the heart wonders and wanders again; sometimes I really think men are so weak and soft when it comes to dealing with this kind of feelings. So what do you think "Wise man" ? S.U. PS: Seriously I really enjoyed reading your post… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Just state how unhappy you, make an attempt to work it out, if that doesn’t work, file for a divorce. Simple as that." No, it isn’t. There is still one self-delusional ploy to watch out for. "Working it out" should not be equivalent to "getting your way." But the same tendency to rationalize our decision to divorce also leads us to think that because our partners are stubbornly insisting on their viewpoint, their desires, their autononomy, we’re justified in concluding that they’re not willing to work on the problem — that is, the problem as *we* have defined it and for which we have already unilaterally decided what will count as an acceptable solution, not to mention what will count as "working on it." Most men aren’t in the habit of speaking the language of women’s magazines and relationship books, and we’re not adept in the comforting rituals of the "girl’s club". Yet all too often, the request to work on the problem amounts to a demand that we acknowledge what seems to be considered the self-evident superiority of those ways. We’re dragged into sessions and badgered until we’re "ready to talk". (Funny, those are the same words which used to be used in those old gangster movies. You know, the ones where the cops take the hood into the back room: "Are you ready to talk, Rico? No? <slap How about now?") The whole process seems to be designed to force us to play by rules we don’t quite understand, and then to criticize us because we don’t play as well as our female partners. No wonder so many men get frustrated and decide to stop playing altogether! Sorry for the rant. I’m in a curmudgeonly mood this morning. If I seem to be picking on women more than men, that’s probably because it’s easier to see the mote in someone else’s eye than the log in my own. charlie
Response:
I once saw a video tape on how to handle stress, by training yourself to adjust your level of reaction appropriately. The technique was to try to mentally compare the stressor with some sort of physical pain, such as burning your hand, or cutting your arm off or something. So, in discovering I had been betrayed, which of course, isn’t a one-time stressor, but one that continues to be a stressor for perhaps months, I did try to imagine what sort of physical ailment I would have gladly taken on if it meant the betrayal would have never happened. Lose an arm, sure, that’s better. Lose a leg. yeah, that’s better too. Well, how about broken back without paralysis, but months of back pain and surgery and recovery. Yeah, that’s better too. (BTW, the back pain part I know firsthand.) I wouldn’t dare pretend to think I could compare the brutal rape you mention against the pain of betrayal. But let’s say betrayal is definitely very bad. It’s invisible, so the pain is not as obvious as a shattered body, and you usually don’t go the hospital to recuperate and nobody sends you flowers or get well cards. And you don’t think you are going to get well, but even if you do think so, you have no idea of how long it takes to heal. And needless to say, there’s always a bunch of folks ready to tell you it’s all in your head and you don’t have to take it so hard, or you ought to be over it by now. When you’re obviously a victim of an accident or a crime, people come out of the woodwork to console you. When you’re a victim of betrayal, people disappear _into_ the woodwork. You often discover you were not only betrayed by your S.O., but a lot of your friends who knew, and your S.O.’s coworkers who knew. Subsequently, you are again betrayed by the seeming lack of support from people you thought were your friends. (And _that_ I’m sure is what propels total strangers to participate in this newsgroup.) So, yes, there are many other bad things in the world, but betrayal is often under-emphasized. — Dan Daugherty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hiya Bill, I know how awful intimate betrayal is, been there myself. I can’t imagine that a person on this planet hasn’t been on the receiving end of that betrayal at some time in their lives, even if only as teens. And I’d never minimize how heart wrenching that experience is for the person who is blind-sided by a partner’s betrayal. But I’m confused about the PTSD reference below. People are actually saying that adultery causes PTSD in the cheated-on spouse? I know that for every opinion in the mental health field you can find a countering opinion that seems just as validated (since its a "soft" science where the standard of validation is lower). So I guess I’m not surprised people might say they were experiencing PTSD from this awful life experience. But as a person who has been diagnosed with lifetime PTSD (the neural pathways have been permanently and irrevocably damaged, I’ll always need medication to balance the damage to the brain) from a violent crime, somehow I find it insulting that the diagnosis is being used for marital infidelity. Does that make sense? Not that I want to take anything away from anyone’s pain. Just that I think there’s something not quite right about comparing the two – marital betrayal and 4 days of captivity while being brutalized, raped, cut, threatened, and nearly killed. Your feedback is appreciated on this. As well as any web sites or other refs you might have that I could go look up that support the diagnosis of PTSD in these cases of partner betrayal. I know I’m less than objective on this topic, but I’m always trying to learn new things. Janie <snip I saw a show once (20/20) or something on this, and it showed quite clearly that the minority survive, and the ones that do, are forever changed because of it, and not necessarily for the better. A few might be better for it, but the vast majority are not. People are hurt deeply by this ….. PSTD. <snip IMHO — BillBo — There is a vast difference between putting your nose in other people’s business and putting your heart in other people’s problems. To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224
Response:
"Just state how unhappy you, make an attempt to work it out, if that doesn’t work, file for a divorce. Simple as that." No, it isn’t. There is still one self-delusional ploy to watch out for. "Working it out" should not be equivalent to "getting your way." But the same tendency to rationalize our decision to divorce also leads us to think that because our partners are stubbornly insisting on their viewpoint, their desires, their autononomy, we’re justified in concluding that they’re not willing to work on the problem — that is, the problem as *we* have defined it and for which we have already unilaterally decided what will count as an acceptable solution, not to mention what will count as "working on it." Most men aren’t in the habit of speaking the language of women’s magazines and relationship books, and we’re not adept in the comforting rituals of the "girl’s club". Yet all too often, the request to work on the problem amounts to a demand that we acknowledge what seems to be considered the self-evident superiority of those ways. We’re dragged into sessions and badgered until we’re "ready to talk". (Funny, those are the same words which used to be used in those old gangster movies. You know, the ones where the cops take the hood into the back room: "Are you ready to talk, Rico? No? <slap How about now?") The whole process seems to be designed to force us to play by rules we don’t quite understand, and then to criticize us because we don’t play as well as our female partners. No wonder so many men get frustrated and decide to stop playing altogether! Sorry for the rant. I’m in a curmudgeonly mood this morning. If I seem to be picking on women more than men, that’s probably because it’s easier to see the mote in someone else’s eye than the log in my own. charlie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of jerks like to rationalize away immoral behavior. Given a typical deteriorating marriage where neither party has an abusive nature, then if A and B are both unhappy, and A commits adultery because she is unhappy or unfulfilled or bored (whatever) or doesn’t feel appreciated, then it is "ok" because she is not "satisfied". But, the fact remains that for A to have been unsatisfied, B was probably also unsatisfied, but B did not resort to immoral behavior and justify it by saying he was getting enuf attention from A. Adultery is a character issue. If you are capable of doing this, no matter how miserable you are, you have a serious weakness. Why screw around? Just state how unhappy you are, make an attempt to work it out, if that doesn’t work, file for a divorce. Simple as that. And, your honor remains intact. I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. You say because he doesn’t have an open mind he lost house, child etc. To add that he worked all the time and didn’t earn enough is a most disgusting excuse for you to go whoring around. I work lots of hours and "he" gave that same sorry excuse. What kind of people are you. Thoughtless, uncaring, unfeeling wretches. I don’t know how you and he can look yourselves in the mirror every day. Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria
Response:
Mine told me he was successful and therfore entitled to have his cake and eat it too. So, I left. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If adultery is the wake up call for many couples then I would rather stay asleep. I’m sure alot of marriages can live through such a breach of trust and fidelity, mine could not. Daisy Mine couldn’t either Daisy. So I left. Heather ICQ# 24665637
Response:
I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria
I wouldn’t be appalled at these words, after all they come from a proud adulterer. On the dark planet Scumsuck where they were born this is common talk and behaviour, but because they are all adulterers there they must come here to Earth to fuck over genuine people. I got this information from the one I was married to. Now she is preparing to return to her dark planet for a much deserved rest. Robert M.
Response:
Hiya Bill, I know how awful intimate betrayal is, been there myself. I can’t imagine that a person on this planet hasn’t been on the receiving end of that betrayal at some time in their lives, even if only as teens. And I’d never minimize how heart wrenching that experience is for the person who is blind-sided by a partner’s betrayal. But I’m confused about the PTSD reference below. People are actually saying that adultery causes PTSD in the cheated-on spouse? I know that for every opinion in the mental health field you can find a countering opinion that seems just as validated (since its a "soft" science where the standard of validation is lower). So I guess I’m not surprised people might say they were experiencing PTSD from this awful life experience. But as a person who has been diagnosed with lifetime PTSD (the neural pathways have been permanently and irrevocably damaged, I’ll always need medication to balance the damage to the brain) from a violent crime, somehow I find it insulting that the diagnosis is being used for marital infidelity. Does that make sense? Not that I want to take anything away from anyone’s pain. Just that I think there’s something not quite right about comparing the two – marital betrayal and 4 days of captivity while being brutalized, raped, cut, threatened, and nearly killed. Your feedback is appreciated on this. As well as any web sites or other refs you might have that I could go look up that support the diagnosis of PTSD in these cases of partner betrayal. I know I’m less than objective on this topic, but I’m always trying to learn new things. Janie
<snip I saw a show once (20/20) or something on this, and it showed quite clearly that the minority survive, and the ones that do, are forever changed because of it, and not necessarily for the better. A few might be better for it, but the vast majority are not. People are hurt deeply by this ….. PSTD. <snip IMHO — BillBo
– There is a vast difference between putting your nose in other people’s business and putting your heart in other people’s problems. To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224
Response:
It’s called "denial". I know a married couple who have introduced a 3rd party (another woman) into their marriage. The 3 of them sleep in the same bed. The 1st wife is unhappy, but won’t admit it. And, the 2nd wife is unhappy, but knows she’s lucky to be "taken in". And, the husband is unhappy because he lives in a nut house. And, man, you can cut the "denial" in the air in their home with a knife. It’s so thick: DENIAL. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you one more time Daisy! I don’t know where these people come from who honestly believe cheating is ok in a marriage. Then to turn it around and blame the spouse is the most heartbreaking and sickening part of a life that is supposed to be shared by two, not three people. I do applaud you. I would rather be asleep too. If life is to be lived, not just tolerated, why would anyone want to tolerate such horrid behavior from someone who took those vows the same as we did? Gloria If adultery is the wake up call for many couples then I would rather stay asleep. I’m sure alot of marriages can live through such a breach of trust and fidelity, mine could not. Daisy I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. karen
Response:
Your trying to justify immoral behavior? Why get married at all if you don’t intend to remain faithful. It IS NOT hard to be faithful at all – what’s the big deal? Fidelity is ALL that it’s cracked up to be. It is a very simple and easy concept. There is nothing hard, binding, or suffocating about that word and putting it into practice for a lifetime w/someone you love or have vowed to love. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. karen
Response:
It is infidelity that is not what it’s cracked up to be. Couples can be faithful if they have a desire to do so. It is very simple to do – right is right. Wrong is wrong. Given that infidelity is not what it’s cracked up to be why even bother with an action that is so obviously a breach of basic dignity, basic values, basic respect for you lifetime partner? Why smirch your integrity for a new trick/piece? Yaaawwwnn. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. Certainly many marriages remain intact after adultery, and some are even improved. Maybe it provides a wake up call to some couples, and others may realize fidelity isn’t all its cracked up to be. Couples can work through anything if they have the desire to. karen
Response:
A lot of jerks like to rationalize away immoral behavior. Given a typical deteriorating marriage where neither party has an abusive nature, then if A and B are both unhappy, and A commits adultery because she is unhappy or unfulfilled or bored (whatever) or doesn’t feel appreciated, then it is "ok" because she is not "satisfied". But, the fact remains that for A to have been unsatisfied, B was probably also unsatisfied, but B did not resort to immoral behavior and justify it by saying he was getting enuf attention from A. Adultery is a character issue. If you are capable of doing this, no matter how miserable you are, you have a serious weakness. Why screw around? Just state how unhappy you are, make an attempt to work it out, if that doesn’t work, file for a divorce. Simple as that. And, your honor remains intact. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sitting here absolutely appalled at such a statement. Adultery does not break marriages. According to you,I and everyone else who has been cheated on should have our spouses expecting us to go on as if nothing happened. You say because he doesn’t have an open mind he lost house, child etc. To add that he worked all the time and didn’t earn enough is a most disgusting excuse for you to go whoring around. I work lots of hours and "he" gave that same sorry excuse. What kind of people are you. Thoughtless, uncaring, unfeeling wretches. I don’t know how you and he can look yourselves in the mirror every day. Then again, maybe you are the one he left me for. You are just his type gloria
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