Question:
Why is it ok for some to speak the way Mel did, but not Mel? I don’t agree with the harshness of her post, but she said some valuable things in between the frustration….. in a very similar way to what I see here often. Now I see posts trying to discredit her…. for calling it as she sees it? Ok, but then please do the same to everyone, or don’t do it at all. I call again for consistancy. If it’s wrong for one, it’s wrong for all. No more double standards. ‘and that’s all i’ve got to say about that’ take care, Renee
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : … I get tired of people saying it’s my *chemical : imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s only balderdash if you choose to ignore a mountain of medical research. Well, I’d say it’s balderdash in the sense that the expression "chemical imbalance" is pretty content-free. Narcolepsy is something that I could call a chemical imbalance and actually mean something by it, but not panic disorder. Mel, I think your post is far uglier than anything that’s been posted by either Jen or Renee, and I hope you’re really embarrassed about it in retrospect. I don’t know you very well, and you haven’t given me a very good first impression. To anyone who’s been here longer than I have and has some background info: has this kind of thing been a pattern with Mel? Because I’m not convinced that such behavior just comes out of the blue. Jen and Renee, I’m sorry you guys have such a tough time dealing with each other, and I wish it were possible for you two to just stop provoking each other. -elizabeth
Oh well. I guess I can live with that. In case you were wondering if I cared about what you think… I don’t. You haven’t "impressed" me either. And no this "pattern did not just come out of the blue", I have always believed that some things needed to be said. I knew that I would not win any "elections" after that post. Mel
Response:
To anyone who’s been here longer than I have and has some background info: has this kind of thing been a pattern with Mel? Because I’m not convinced that such behavior just comes out of the blue.
Mel is good people here!! And I can tell you she is not a trouble maker. Go to deja news and check her posts of the last few months, you will see she has alot to offer the newsgroup. I don`t like double standards at this newsgroup, it has been alright that Jen has been flaming Renee, but no one can flame Jen? I do not condone flaming, just pointing out the facts. Jackie
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To anyone who’s been here longer than I have and has some background info: has this kind of thing been a pattern with Mel? Because I’m not convinced that such behavior just comes out of the blue. Mel is good people here!! And I can tell you she is not a trouble maker. Go to deja news and check her posts of the last few months, you will see she has alot to offer the newsgroup. I don`t like double standards at this newsgroup, it has been alright that Jen has been flaming Renee, but no one can flame Jen? I do not condone flaming, just pointing out the facts. Jackie
I agree with everything Jackie wrote here. I wanted to say something myself but Jackie worded it so well that I can just send this *metoo-post*…. Philip (and now let’s stop fighting amongst each other, life is much too short and already difficult enough without that)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can’t help thinking that my "counseling" thread sparked all of this, or at least brought it into the newsgroup. I truly didn’t realize that there were such strong opposing viewpoints on the issue. Ah well, cloaking device back on… chris Chris, Don’t worry and keep on posting please. The Jen-Renee thingy dates back to before your post and even if it didn’t you would not have been at fault for bringing up a subject which IMO *should* be discussed here, with more rationality and tolerance. If anything, therapy may not have been discussed enough here in the past years. Philip
I think you’re right about therapy being discussed Philip. I was at a Depressive Disorders Congress yesterday (chaired by my pdoc). All the statistics about depression were making things look pretty grim (for me anyway). He finished off the congress with some stress reducing hypnotherapy. It was interesting to see the reaction of the audience. Back to this thread., I don’t pretend to have any idea about the Jen-Renee thing, nor do I really want to. However I do read their posts and find sharing information, ideas useful. Meryl
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To anyone who’s been here longer than I have and has some background info: has this kind of thing been a pattern with Mel? Because I’m not convinced that such behavior just comes out of the blue. Mel is good people here!! And I can tell you she is not a trouble maker. Go to deja news and check her posts of the last few months, you will see she has alot to offer the newsgroup. I don`t like double standards at this newsgroup, it has been alright that Jen has been flaming Renee, but no one can flame Jen? I do not condone flaming, just pointing out the facts. Jackie I agree with everything Jackie wrote here. I wanted to say something myself but Jackie worded it so well that I can just send this *metoo-post*…. Philip (and now let’s stop fighting amongst each other, life is much too short and already difficult enough without that)
Thanks Jackie and Philip and everyone else that has written to me. "You light up my life!" Mel
Response:
: … I get tired of people saying it’s my *chemical : imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s only balderdash if you choose to ignore a mountain of medical research.
Well, I’d say it’s balderdash in the sense that the expression "chemical imbalance" is pretty content-free. Narcolepsy is something that I could call a chemical imbalance and actually mean something by it, but not panic disorder. Mel, I think your post is far uglier than anything that’s been posted by either Jen or Renee, and I hope you’re really embarrassed about it in retrospect. I don’t know you very well, and you haven’t given me a very good first impression. To anyone who’s been here longer than I have and has some background info: has this kind of thing been a pattern with Mel? Because I’m not convinced that such behavior just comes out of the blue. Jen and Renee, I’m sorry you guys have such a tough time dealing with each other, and I wish it were possible for you two to just stop provoking each other. -elizabeth
Response:
Anyway, I just want to leave a few parting thoughts as I don’t see this group being peaceful again until one of us leaves. And, since I am quite fine these days, I guess it ought to be me. Plus, I am tired of the constant walking on eggshells, trying not to offend anyone. ASAP is no longer the "home" it once was to me. Jen, I’d like to see you stick around ASAP. Maybe you just need some distance for awhile, a few days or weeks. And I understand how anyone can tire of going to any one place on the net after a period of time. I got sick of going to a classical music BBS, so I’ve stopped for awhile. But, you have a challange here, and a chance to grow as well. I know from my own personal experience it can be hard to get along with some people, and I’m sure others find it hard to get along with me. But people do it all the time, at work, at school, at home sometimes, and with neighbors, etc. I suppose it comes down to having the right attitude, which is giving others room to do "their own thing", and not getting ‘bugged’ by it. If you have that attitude you can return to ASAP and be comfortable, and not have to worry about walking on eggshells, and you will feel peace at ASAP. You can always avoid posters that annoy you or "push your buttons", and gravitate towards those with whom you "hit it off". There’s plenty of room at ASAP for different viewpoints, just as there’s plenty of room anywhere for different viewpoints (excluding places where one person is the boss, or dictator). I would see your returning to ASAP as growth in you. As people with ADs we often tend to "avoid" situations that make us uncomfortable rather than making changes in ourselves which allow us to return to the situation. I hope you will return, and face this situation and challange, and grow as a result. Every last person here has problems, and those "at the top of the list" include learning how to be around all types of people and ideas, while remaining comfortable and calm. In addition, every last person, whether new or old, who posts to ASAP (trolls excluded) have something to offer to this group, whether a past experience, a question, or a comment, a thought. Perhaps ASAP may not be the "home it once was", but it can be a different and better home, if you choose this. Chip
Response:
Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen —
Jen, you are always welcome at alt.popejed.freedom.weak.panic-souls — I understand the ng deals with real recovery. ROFLMAO!!!!!!
Response:
I have appreciated reading all the posts regarding this mess, and everyone made good points. I am deeply disturbed that this has gotten so far out of hand, and am thankful that it seems to be winding down now so this group, and we, can focus on what we are here for – support, encouragement, a smile, and our recovery. Jen, since this all started and escalated between us, it has been my continuing hope that we could co-exist in this place together, ignoring each other if need be, being civil and respectful to each other. I find it sad and unfortunate for us and everyone else that we seem to both have had problems doing this. I do not understand why you feel this NG is not big enough for both of us, why you refuse to talk with me privately, or why our friendship and even contact is dependent on my being on prescription drugs. I do not understand why you have such a difficult time respecting my treatment choices and my right to succeed or fail on my own. Additionally, I wish our friendship was not dependent on whether or not I take your advice. Believe it or not, as I have said before, I have always enjoyed your challenging questions – when they were asked with kindness and respect, which, from this side, did not always appear to be the case (despite your intent, which I have no way of knowing). There are many paths to the same place. If I said aloud some of the judgments about meds that you and others have said about therapy, many would have my head, and rightly so. This is no place for judgement. This should be a place of respect for people who need Support from Anxiety and Panic, as the sign reads. It is not alt.support.panicdisorder-meds. PTSD, OCD, and others are *Anxiety Disorders*. This is not an exclusive club. Through all that, I hear you saying that you care, that you are trying to get through to me, and I appreciate that…. but what I would really appreciate is respect and acceptance, no matter what I do. That is what friendship is to me. (note: I did not say agreement.) And you may be right, perhaps I will never understand. It seems you many not ever understand me either. At best, I had hoped we could show respect for each other and communicate despite our differences of opinion……. perhaps agreeing to disagree, perhaps agreeing to not discuss some topics, whatever. Despite all that has happened, for reasons I am unclear of, I still hold my hand out to you, and hope that we can find some way to move forward together. It is up to you. As you have stated it many times, I know you believe completely that all of your actions are based on your choices, and that you alone are responsible for them. I wish you well, blessings, Renee
Response:
Nobody needs to go anywhere. We just need to play nice 
If you have something to say to someone that may be hurtful but necessary, and you say it in private, then you are being a good friend. If you say it in a public forum, then your agenda is something else entirely. No need to trot what you perceive to be someone else’s shortcomings out to make a public spectacle. It isn’t helpful and it isn’t entertaining, it’s just spiteful and sad.
Response:
I am not current on the posts to and from Renee and Jen. all I can say about this subject is that we all should come here for one reason….support. That includes education, advice and opinions. Everyone is entitled to express their own opinions….but this is only my opinion :] I get tired of people posting goodbye messages……its really bad that people get so emotionally attached to what is written on a computer. To Jen…if your really going to leave, leave with this ok……. I always liked your posts and believe for the most part you contributed positivly to the group. Its a shame to see anyone be intimidated or pissed or whatever to the point they have to leave. Why do we like to judge so quickly? We are all in this together. Xanman — A little insanity in an sane wolf.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all of you who were upset my the recent interchange between Renee and I, I apologize. To Renee, I still say get on with your life, get out of the denial, quit blaming everyone else for your problems and get some real help. Not that you have ever taken any advice from those around you who truly ‘did’ care. ::sigh:: And you wondered aloud to me the last time we saw each other why you have lost so many friends…… Anyway, I just want to leave a few parting thoughts as I don’t see this group being peaceful again until one of us leaves. And, since I am quite fine these days, I guess it ought to be me. Plus, I am tired of the constant walking on eggshells, trying not to offend anyone. ASAP is no longer the "home" it once was to me. So, here goes: The fact is, somtimes the truth hurts. And, sometimes its not real pretty. And, there are times someone has to say it. And, to others it may look like "flames". (see post to Jackie on the whole mess of a thread that started all this) As I see it, you judge what you say by these three things: Is it true? (that’s an esy one, but each of our "truths" is colored by our own experience.) Is it kind? (sometimes a slap in the face can be a kindness. Especially if it brings someone around to where they can get well again. So, that one is a judgement call. And, not everyone has the same "judgement".) Is it necessary? (Again, who’s to say. We all have to make that decison with best intent.) So many of the people here avoid all that "nasty, messy, stuff" because all they want is a "feel good" atmosphere, not one that is challenging and provocative. Feeling all warm and nice only breeds complacency adn causes people to not face the hard work necessary for recovery. If all you want is sympathy, it’s between "shit " and "syphillis" in the dictionary. (Terribly politically incorrect, I know!). But, the fact is, sympathy ever did anyone any good. All it does is foster weakness and the inability to move forward with one’s life. "Empathy" is another story entirely….. And, the other fact is that all modes of treatment are NOT equal. If a person has an anxiety disorder, all the "talking" in the world is not going to address the problem. It is not going to teach them how to cope with life or how to function on their own. Only meds and CBT help when it comes to that. And, CBT mostly addresses phobias. It’s the inner work that a person has to do that really counts. The meds are only a way to still the anxiety so one can think and focus clearly while healing. And, for those of us who truly have a biochemical problem, they are as necessary as thyroid medication or blood pressure medication, or any other meds are to other people with similar problems. Medication is not a "magic cure", but it is the best thing there is to help people get back on their feet relatively quickly and allow them some breathing room while they sort their lives out. Dredging up ones past is just as bad as constantly looking for sympathy and feeling sorry for yourself. We live HERE, in the present moment. Not in the past. Make your peace with your past and move on. Also, so many people are always ready to blame others, or situations for their disorder instead of taking responsibility for themselves. Here’s a hint: The first step ont he road to recovery is taking responsibility for your own actions and then moving forward, come hell or high water. Next is to quit feeling sorry for yourself. After that, it’s up to each of you to find your way. So life dealt you the hand that held an AD…..it deals other people worse things like cancer, heart disease, schizophrenia, and so on. In the grand scheme of things, this disorder is not as awful as it may seem from the inside looking out. And, it has many lessons to teach; if you are willing to be open to them. It may sound strange, but in retrospect, I don’t think I would go back and "cure" my PD, even if I could. It has formed the person who I am today. And, I am happy and comfortable in this skin I wear. All disorders and diseases come with their hidden blessings. The trick is to find them. Recovery is not for the faint hearted. It takes a lot of guts to do what is neccessary to get well and come back to living fully within society again. I am also tired of people buying into bullshit therapies. Things like EMDR, recovered childhood memories, PTSD 20 years after the fact, psychoanalysis, electroshock, etc. As long as you keep looking for that "magic cure" that is going to make you better overnight, you will never get well. It does not exsist. At least not yet. Who knows, some day it might. But, for now, all you are doing is wasting your time and money when you could be looking into your "self" and healing. And, whe it comes right down to it, either you have what it takes within yourself to heal, or you don’t. Do you have the guts to do what it takes to get better? Sometimes I think that there are peole here who actually don’t want to get better. The "victim" role has been part of their lives for so long, that they would not know who they were if they did get better. I feel that is both sad and disgusting at the same time. That being said, I still feel that ALL people have inherent worth. It is just covered by so many layers of crap in some people. And,they hold on to these covers, as though they were some security blanket. Anytime someone challenges them to drop their blanket, they accuse that person of being hurtful or uncaring, when in fact, that person was trying to help them. So be it. Sometimes you can make a difference in the world and sometimes you can’t. IOW, you can only help those who want help or those who are willing to help themselves. The rest, you have to move past; no matter how much it may hurt. Else you risk getting dragged down into their personal "dramas". I know, this has turned into a rather odd, free form babble of sorts. But, I just felt I had to say a few of these things before I leave. And, This time I do mean LEAVE. I will not even be lurking. I have had enough. If some of you gain even a tiny bit of something from this post, then it was worthwhile. If none of you do, then I wasted a half hour this morning and the world will still go on. I sincerely wish you ALL well. Even the people who have their "quarrels" with me. Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen — Victory belongs to the most persistent. - Anon.
Response:
snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can’t help thinking that my "counseling" thread sparked all of this, or at least brought it into the newsgroup. I truly didn’t realize that there were such strong opposing viewpoints on the issue. Ah well, cloaking device back on… chris Chris, Don’t worry and keep on posting please. The Jen-Renee thingy dates back to before your post and even if it didn’t you would not have been at fault for bringing up a subject which IMO *should* be discussed here, with more rationality and tolerance. If anything, therapy may not have been discussed enough here in the past years. Philip
The last thing, IMO, you should do is activate your cloaking device – if only because I hate Klingons, even if they are now part of the Federation!!!!! <VBG Ian
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MsLadyMel barfed out: Ok here’s some real mean stuff! If you don’t stop thinking that people have to feel the same way about things as you do, YOU’RE GOING TO BE *SICK* ALL THE TIME. If you think people should get up and get on with their lives, why are you drawing Social Security? Could it be because you’re laying up on the system? And why are you writing this LONG-ASS message to the group is it because you want everyone to say OH JEN PLEASE DON’T GO (sympathy)? What’s the matter did they get tired of looking at your *ass* pictures? Now you need something else to keep their attention. You need to GET REAL!! People are free to pick and choose whatever therapy that they want. They do not have to live by JEN’S THEORY OF LIFE. Once you accept that you’ll be a happier person, and then maybe you could get a job and quit * bitching* in NG’s. I get tired of people saying it’s my * chemical imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s because you’re a *crybaby* that always got your way that makes you that way. (Now, that is how many none PD’ers feel about it!) SO HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!?? You think that we’re going create some *ruckus* is this here NG now! And don’t let the screen door hit ya! Ah buh bye!!!! Mel Why not just call it a PARTING SHOT – you bitch. Mel, face it, you were a pain in the ass when you first entered ASAP, toned down for a bit (when those who couldn’t stand you left), but CAN’T pass on such an opportunity. For you? Get bent!! Enjoy your day:-) — FatTuesday
Same to you. What does "get bent" mean? Is that something that you get frequently. You have a nice one too! Mel
Response:
Mel, All of us here in ASAP do not know the whole Jen-Renee story. Jen has been here a long time and is a respected regular of this NG. I think Jen was trying to tell us all that there are circumstances here that none of us can understand. Much of what she says is true, as for as the panic and phobias are concerned. Dredging up her SSD was totally inappropriate, besides it was a past SSD benefit (If I remember correctly). Where is all this venom coming from? Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok here’s some real mean stuff! If you don’t stop thinking that people have to feel the same way about things as you do, YOU’RE GOING TO BE *SICK* ALL THE TIME. If you think people should get up and get on with their lives, why are you drawing Social Security? Could it be because you’re laying up on the system? And why are you writing this LONG-ASS message to the group is it because you want everyone to say OH JEN PLEASE DON’T GO (sympathy)? What’s the matter did they get tired of looking at your *ass* pictures? Now you need something else to keep their attention. You need to GET REAL!! People are free to pick and choose whatever therapy that they want. They do not have to live by JEN’S THEORY OF LIFE. Once you accept that you’ll be a happier person, and then maybe you could get a job and quit *bitching* in NG’s. I get tired of people saying it’s my *chemical imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s because you’re a *crybaby* that always got your way that makes you that way. (Now, that is how many none PD’ers feel about it!) SO HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!?? You think that we’re going create some *ruckus* is this here NG now! And don’t let the screen door hit ya! Ah buh bye!!!! Mel To all of you who were upset my the recent interchange between Renee and I, I apologize. To Renee, I still say get on with your life, get out of the denial, quit blaming everyone else for your problems and get some real help. Not that you have ever taken any advice from those around you who truly ‘did’ care. ::sigh:: And you wondered aloud to me the last time we saw each other why you have lost so many friends…… Anyway, I just want to leave a few parting thoughts as I don’t see this group being peaceful again until one of us leaves. And, since I am quite fine these days, I guess it ought to be me. Plus, I am tired of the constant walking on eggshells, trying not to offend anyone. ASAP is no longer the "home" it once was to me. So, here goes: The fact is, somtimes the truth hurts. And, sometimes its not real pretty. And, there are times someone has to say it. And, to others it may look like "flames". (see post to Jackie on the whole mess of a thread that started all this) As I see it, you judge what you say by these three things: Is it true? (that’s an esy one, but each of our "truths" is colored by our own experience.) Is it kind? (sometimes a slap in the face can be a kindness. Especially if it brings someone around to where they can get well again. So, that one is a judgement call. And, not everyone has the same "judgement".) Is it necessary? (Again, who’s to say. We all have to make that decison with best intent.) So many of the people here avoid all that "nasty, messy, stuff" because all they want is a "feel good" atmosphere, not one that is challenging and provocative. Feeling all warm and nice only breeds complacency adn causes people to not face the hard work necessary for recovery. If all you want is sympathy, it’s between "shit " and "syphillis" in the dictionary. (Terribly politically incorrect, I know!). But, the fact is, sympathy ever did anyone any good. All it does is foster weakness and the inability to move forward with one’s life. "Empathy" is another story entirely….. And, the other fact is that all modes of treatment are NOT equal. If a person has an anxiety disorder, all the "talking" in the world is not going to address the problem. It is not going to teach them how to cope with life or how to function on their own. Only meds and CBT help when it comes to that. And, CBT mostly addresses phobias. It’s the inner work that a person has to do that really counts. The meds are only a way to still the anxiety so one can think and focus clearly while healing. And, for those of us who truly have a biochemical problem, they are as necessary as thyroid medication or blood pressure medication, or any other meds are to other people with similar problems. Medication is not a "magic cure", but it is the best thing there is to help people get back on their feet relatively quickly and allow them some breathing room while they sort their lives out. Dredging up ones past is just as bad as constantly looking for sympathy and feeling sorry for yourself. We live HERE, in the present moment. Not in the past. Make your peace with your past and move on. Also, so many people are always ready to blame others, or situations for their disorder instead of taking responsibility for themselves. Here’s a hint: The first step ont he road to recovery is taking responsibility for your own actions and then moving forward, come hell or high water. Next is to quit feeling sorry for yourself. After that, it’s up to each of you to find your way. So life dealt you the hand that held an AD…..it deals other people worse things like cancer, heart disease, schizophrenia, and so on. In the grand scheme of things, this disorder is not as awful as it may seem from the inside looking out. And, it has many lessons to teach; if you are willing to be open to them. It may sound strange, but in retrospect, I don’t think I would go back and "cure" my PD, even if I could. It has formed the person who I am today. And, I am happy and comfortable in this skin I wear. All disorders and diseases come with their hidden blessings. The trick is to find them. Recovery is not for the faint hearted. It takes a lot of guts to do what is neccessary to get well and come back to living fully within society again. I am also tired of people buying into bullshit therapies. Things like EMDR, recovered childhood memories, PTSD 20 years after the fact, psychoanalysis, electroshock, etc. As long as you keep looking for that "magic cure" that is going to make you better overnight, you will never get well. It does not exsist. At least not yet. Who knows, some day it might. But, for now, all you are doing is wasting your time and money when you could be looking into your "self" and healing. And, whe it comes right down to it, either you have what it takes within yourself to heal, or you don’t. Do you have the guts to do what it takes to get better? Sometimes I think that there are peole here who actually don’t want to get better. The "victim" role has been part of their lives for so long, that they would not know who they were if they did get better. I feel that is both sad and disgusting at the same time. That being said, I still feel that ALL people have inherent worth. It is just covered by so many layers of crap in some people. And,they hold on to these covers, as though they were some security blanket. Anytime someone challenges them to drop their blanket, they accuse that person of being hurtful or uncaring, when in fact, that person was trying to help them. So be it. Sometimes you can make a difference in the world and sometimes you can’t. IOW, you can only help those who want help or those who are willing to help themselves. The rest, you have to move past; no matter how much it may hurt. Else you risk getting dragged down into their personal "dramas". I know, this has turned into a rather odd, free form babble of sorts. But, I just felt I had to say a few of these things before I leave. And, This time I do mean LEAVE. I will not even be lurking. I have had enough. If some of you gain even a tiny bit of something from this post, then it was worthwhile. If none of you do, then I wasted a half hour this morning and the world will still go on. I sincerely wish you ALL well. Even the people who have their "quarrels" with me. Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen — Victory belongs to the most persistent. - Anon.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I sincerely wish you ALL well. Even the people who have their "quarrels" with me. Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen — Can’t help thinking that my "counseling" thread sparked all of this, or at least brought it into the newsgroup. I truly didn’t realize that there were such strong opposing viewpoints on the issue. Ah well, cloaking device back on… chris
Chris, Don’t worry and keep on posting please. The Jen-Renee thingy dates back to before your post and even if it didn’t you would not have been at fault for bringing up a subject which IMO *should* be discussed here, with more rationality and tolerance. If anything, therapy may not have been discussed enough here in the past years. Philip
Response:
MsLadyMel barfed out: Ok here’s some real mean stuff! If you don’t stop thinking that people have to feel the same way about things as you do, YOU’RE GOING TO BE *SICK* ALL THE TIME. If you think people should get up and get on with their lives, why are you drawing Social Security? Could it be because you’re laying up on the system? And why are you writing this LONG-ASS message to the group is it because you want everyone to say OH JEN PLEASE DON’T GO (sympathy)? What’s the matter did they get tired of looking at your *ass* pictures? Now you need something else to keep their attention. You need to GET REAL!! People are free to pick and choose whatever therapy that they want. They do not have to live by JEN’S THEORY OF LIFE. Once you accept that you’ll be a happier person, and then maybe you could get a job and quit * bitching* in NG’s. I get tired of people saying it’s my * chemical imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s because you’re a *crybaby* that always got your way that makes you that way. (Now, that is how many none PD’ers feel about it!) SO HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!?? You think that we’re going create some *ruckus* is this here NG now! And don’t let the screen door hit ya! Ah buh bye!!!! Mel Why not just call it a PARTING SHOT – you bitch. Mel, face it, you were a pain in the ass when you first entered ASAP, toned down for a bit (when those who couldn’t stand you left), but CAN’T pass on such an opportunity. For you? Get bent!! Enjoy your day:-) — FatTuesday * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Jen: you have helped me so much, especially when I first came on and was in such bad shape. If you go, there might be another me out there who might never hear your words of advise or encouragement. I know there are times that we simply have to walk away, but are you sure this is one of them? Please don’t take this wrong, because I don’t know anything about your problem with someone named Renee, but you are a mature woman who shouldn’t care what someone else thinks about them. You don’t have to agree with her or me or anyone. Just go around us, but please stick around. This is something I am just learning to do at 64 — to stop allowing what someone else says about me make me run away. It’s o.k. to stay away for awhile to gather yourself together, we’re all human and have feelings, but please reconsider staying away for good. Never is a long time. We all need you and I bet you need us too. Your friend, Rita
Response:
<snip I sincerely wish you ALL well. Even the people who have their "quarrels" with me. Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen —
Can’t help thinking that my "counseling" thread sparked all of this, or at least brought it into the newsgroup. I truly didn’t realize that there were such strong opposing viewpoints on the issue. Ah well, cloaking device back on… chris
Response:
All the so-called trauma, which are supposed to be at the root of a person’s problems, are inventions of the person to save his self-esteem. They are all lies to be hung onto in order to justify one’s unwillingness to grow. And to mature means to take responsibility for your life, and to grow. Most people do not enter therapy to grow, but to learn how to be more comfortable in their illness. And to suffer one’s death and to be reborn is not easy. Chip
Response:
: : … I get tired of people saying it’s my *chemical : imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s only balderdash if you choose to ignore a mountain of medical research. Best Wishes, Arthur
Response:
Jen–Your post makes a lot of sense to me, but as one who has not followed the "flames" I don’t really understand why you would have a "parting commentary". The internet in all it’s glory as well as newsgroups are simply ways to express one’s feelings, learn about other’s experiences, etc. Maybe you are like I used to be and take it all (including life ) too seriously. My meds. for anxiety have helped me greatly– and I’m not one that posts very frequently or reads posts daily–but one thing I have learned is that I surely don’t know all the answers and maybe not even all the questions. Nonetheless, you have some quality thoughts as so many do that write here. I’m simply saying– Don’t go!!
Response:
To all of you who were upset my the recent interchange between Renee and I, I apologize. To Renee, I still say get on with your life, get out of the denial, quit blaming everyone else for your problems and get some real help. Not that you have ever taken any advice from those around you who truly ‘did’ care. ::sigh:: And you wondered aloud to me the last time we saw each other why you have lost so many friends…… Anyway, I just want to leave a few parting thoughts as I don’t see this group being peaceful again until one of us leaves. And, since I am quite fine these days, I guess it ought to be me. Plus, I am tired of the constant walking on eggshells, trying not to offend anyone. ASAP is no longer the "home" it once was to me. So, here goes: The fact is, somtimes the truth hurts. And, sometimes its not real pretty. And, there are times someone has to say it. And, to others it may look like "flames". (see post to Jackie on the whole mess of a thread that started all this) As I see it, you judge what you say by these three things: Is it true? (that’s an esy one, but each of our "truths" is colored by our own experience.) Is it kind? (sometimes a slap in the face can be a kindness. Especially if it brings someone around to where they can get well again. So, that one is a judgement call. And, not everyone has the same "judgement".) Is it necessary? (Again, who’s to say. We all have to make that decison with best intent.) So many of the people here avoid all that "nasty, messy, stuff" because all they want is a "feel good" atmosphere, not one that is challenging and provocative. Feeling all warm and nice only breeds complacency adn causes people to not face the hard work necessary for recovery. If all you want is sympathy, it’s between "shit " and "syphillis" in the dictionary. (Terribly politically incorrect, I know!). But, the fact is, sympathy ever did anyone any good. All it does is foster weakness and the inability to move forward with one’s life. "Empathy" is another story entirely….. And, the other fact is that all modes of treatment are NOT equal. If a person has an anxiety disorder, all the "talking" in the world is not going to address the problem. It is not going to teach them how to cope with life or how to function on their own. Only meds and CBT help when it comes to that. And, CBT mostly addresses phobias. It’s the inner work that a person has to do that really counts. The meds are only a way to still the anxiety so one can think and focus clearly while healing. And, for those of us who truly have a biochemical problem, they are as necessary as thyroid medication or blood pressure medication, or any other meds are to other people with similar problems. Medication is not a "magic cure", but it is the best thing there is to help people get back on their feet relatively quickly and allow them some breathing room while they sort their lives out. Dredging up ones past is just as bad as constantly looking for sympathy and feeling sorry for yourself. We live HERE, in the present moment. Not in the past. Make your peace with your past and move on. Also, so many people are always ready to blame others, or situations for their disorder instead of taking responsibility for themselves. Here’s a hint: The first step ont he road to recovery is taking responsibility for your own actions and then moving forward, come hell or high water. Next is to quit feeling sorry for yourself. After that, it’s up to each of you to find your way. So life dealt you the hand that held an AD…..it deals other people worse things like cancer, heart disease, schizophrenia, and so on. In the grand scheme of things, this disorder is not as awful as it may seem from the inside looking out. And, it has many lessons to teach; if you are willing to be open to them. It may sound strange, but in retrospect, I don’t think I would go back and "cure" my PD, even if I could. It has formed the person who I am today. And, I am happy and comfortable in this skin I wear. All disorders and diseases come with their hidden blessings. The trick is to find them. Recovery is not for the faint hearted. It takes a lot of guts to do what is neccessary to get well and come back to living fully within society again. I am also tired of people buying into bullshit therapies. Things like EMDR, recovered childhood memories, PTSD 20 years after the fact, psychoanalysis, electroshock, etc. As long as you keep looking for that "magic cure" that is going to make you better overnight, you will never get well. It does not exsist. At least not yet. Who knows, some day it might. But, for now, all you are doing is wasting your time and money when you could be looking into your "self" and healing. And, whe it comes right down to it, either you have what it takes within yourself to heal, or you don’t. Do you have the guts to do what it takes to get better? Sometimes I think that there are peole here who actually don’t want to get better. The "victim" role has been part of their lives for so long, that they would not know who they were if they did get better. I feel that is both sad and disgusting at the same time. That being said, I still feel that ALL people have inherent worth. It is just covered by so many layers of crap in some people. And,they hold on to these covers, as though they were some security blanket. Anytime someone challenges them to drop their blanket, they accuse that person of being hurtful or uncaring, when in fact, that person was trying to help them. So be it. Sometimes you can make a difference in the world and sometimes you can’t. IOW, you can only help those who want help or those who are willing to help themselves. The rest, you have to move past; no matter how much it may hurt. Else you risk getting dragged down into their personal "dramas". I know, this has turned into a rather odd, free form babble of sorts. But, I just felt I had to say a few of these things before I leave. And, This time I do mean LEAVE. I will not even be lurking. I have had enough. If some of you gain even a tiny bit of something from this post, then it was worthwhile. If none of you do, then I wasted a half hour this morning and the world will still go on. I sincerely wish you ALL well. Even the people who have their "quarrels" with me. Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen — Victory belongs to the most persistent. - Anon.
Response:
Ok here’s some real mean stuff! If you don’t stop thinking that people have to feel the same way about things as you do, YOU’RE GOING TO BE *SICK* ALL THE TIME. If you think people should get up and get on with their lives, why are you drawing Social Security? Could it be because you’re laying up on the system? And why are you writing this LONG-ASS message to the group is it because you want everyone to say OH JEN PLEASE DON’T GO (sympathy)? What’s the matter did they get tired of looking at your *ass* pictures? Now you need something else to keep their attention. You need to GET REAL!! People are free to pick and choose whatever therapy that they want. They do not have to live by JEN’S THEORY OF LIFE. Once you accept that you’ll be a happier person, and then maybe you could get a job and quit *bitching* in NG’s. I get tired of people saying it’s my *chemical imbalance* that makes me this way! Balderdash! It’s because you’re a *crybaby* that always got your way that makes you that way. (Now, that is how many none PD’ers feel about it!) SO HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!?? You think that we’re going create some *ruckus* is this here NG now! And don’t let the screen door hit ya! Ah buh bye!!!! Mel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all of you who were upset my the recent interchange between Renee and I, I apologize. To Renee, I still say get on with your life, get out of the denial, quit blaming everyone else for your problems and get some real help. Not that you have ever taken any advice from those around you who truly ‘did’ care. ::sigh:: And you wondered aloud to me the last time we saw each other why you have lost so many friends…… Anyway, I just want to leave a few parting thoughts as I don’t see this group being peaceful again until one of us leaves. And, since I am quite fine these days, I guess it ought to be me. Plus, I am tired of the constant walking on eggshells, trying not to offend anyone. ASAP is no longer the "home" it once was to me. So, here goes: The fact is, somtimes the truth hurts. And, sometimes its not real pretty. And, there are times someone has to say it. And, to others it may look like "flames". (see post to Jackie on the whole mess of a thread that started all this) As I see it, you judge what you say by these three things: Is it true? (that’s an esy one, but each of our "truths" is colored by our own experience.) Is it kind? (sometimes a slap in the face can be a kindness. Especially if it brings someone around to where they can get well again. So, that one is a judgement call. And, not everyone has the same "judgement".) Is it necessary? (Again, who’s to say. We all have to make that decison with best intent.) So many of the people here avoid all that "nasty, messy, stuff" because all they want is a "feel good" atmosphere, not one that is challenging and provocative. Feeling all warm and nice only breeds complacency adn causes people to not face the hard work necessary for recovery. If all you want is sympathy, it’s between "shit " and "syphillis" in the dictionary. (Terribly politically incorrect, I know!). But, the fact is, sympathy ever did anyone any good. All it does is foster weakness and the inability to move forward with one’s life. "Empathy" is another story entirely….. And, the other fact is that all modes of treatment are NOT equal. If a person has an anxiety disorder, all the "talking" in the world is not going to address the problem. It is not going to teach them how to cope with life or how to function on their own. Only meds and CBT help when it comes to that. And, CBT mostly addresses phobias. It’s the inner work that a person has to do that really counts. The meds are only a way to still the anxiety so one can think and focus clearly while healing. And, for those of us who truly have a biochemical problem, they are as necessary as thyroid medication or blood pressure medication, or any other meds are to other people with similar problems. Medication is not a "magic cure", but it is the best thing there is to help people get back on their feet relatively quickly and allow them some breathing room while they sort their lives out. Dredging up ones past is just as bad as constantly looking for sympathy and feeling sorry for yourself. We live HERE, in the present moment. Not in the past. Make your peace with your past and move on. Also, so many people are always ready to blame others, or situations for their disorder instead of taking responsibility for themselves. Here’s a hint: The first step ont he road to recovery is taking responsibility for your own actions and then moving forward, come hell or high water. Next is to quit feeling sorry for yourself. After that, it’s up to each of you to find your way. So life dealt you the hand that held an AD…..it deals other people worse things like cancer, heart disease, schizophrenia, and so on. In the grand scheme of things, this disorder is not as awful as it may seem from the inside looking out. And, it has many lessons to teach; if you are willing to be open to them. It may sound strange, but in retrospect, I don’t think I would go back and "cure" my PD, even if I could. It has formed the person who I am today. And, I am happy and comfortable in this skin I wear. All disorders and diseases come with their hidden blessings. The trick is to find them. Recovery is not for the faint hearted. It takes a lot of guts to do what is neccessary to get well and come back to living fully within society again. I am also tired of people buying into bullshit therapies. Things like EMDR, recovered childhood memories, PTSD 20 years after the fact, psychoanalysis, electroshock, etc. As long as you keep looking for that "magic cure" that is going to make you better overnight, you will never get well. It does not exsist. At least not yet. Who knows, some day it might. But, for now, all you are doing is wasting your time and money when you could be looking into your "self" and healing. And, whe it comes right down to it, either you have what it takes within yourself to heal, or you don’t. Do you have the guts to do what it takes to get better? Sometimes I think that there are peole here who actually don’t want to get better. The "victim" role has been part of their lives for so long, that they would not know who they were if they did get better. I feel that is both sad and disgusting at the same time. That being said, I still feel that ALL people have inherent worth. It is just covered by so many layers of crap in some people. And,they hold on to these covers, as though they were some security blanket. Anytime someone challenges them to drop their blanket, they accuse that person of being hurtful or uncaring, when in fact, that person was trying to help them. So be it. Sometimes you can make a difference in the world and sometimes you can’t. IOW, you can only help those who want help or those who are willing to help themselves. The rest, you have to move past; no matter how much it may hurt. Else you risk getting dragged down into their personal "dramas". I know, this has turned into a rather odd, free form babble of sorts. But, I just felt I had to say a few of these things before I leave. And, This time I do mean LEAVE. I will not even be lurking. I have had enough. If some of you gain even a tiny bit of something from this post, then it was worthwhile. If none of you do, then I wasted a half hour this morning and the world will still go on. I sincerely wish you ALL well. Even the people who have their "quarrels" with me. Goodbye and good luck to all, Jen — Victory belongs to the most persistent. - Anon.
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