Question:
You ask why the benefit of the doubt belongs with the original poster. Well he doesn’t give enough detail for anyone to decide it was an arbitrary decision on his part to consider using a residential placement. From your latest post you say "Perhaps there was no reason other then the decision of the parent. Which is
why the first question I asked was WHY was this done." Fair question when asked politly, was it? "You might be right, it might not work, he might have complicatons or he might
not. My point was the parent should not just arbitraily make that decision. I have to take what the poster says at face value." But you didn’t take the post at face value. Nor has he, nor any other person with closer contact volenteered any reason
other then that parent’s personal belief. If he said he did this, with no apparent reason, then he did it." I didn’t read him saying he did this for no apparent reason or personal belief. He doesn’t say why at all. But from some of your other postings you don’t phrase it so well. Instead the wording makes it sound as if you are out and out accusing this man of doing this arbitrarily and sloughing off his responsibility as a parent, and very angrily so. I find it extremely difficult to imagine a parent who has raised this child for 12 years allready with these disorders of not having by now run the gamet of many treatment modalities. Wich would suggest (a quess here) but the family probably has meet many doctors over the years who have helped guide them in treatment. I"m guessing again but I would bet they have one now to. So instead of lambasting this fellow who came for some additional support(or just to vent) during a time of great turmoil. He be left alone or given some compasion. Your point of parents not being arbitrary could have easily been made into it’s very own thread without causing pain to an allready suffering individual. From the original poster ".now the fact of the matter isI am a very stable, controlled and gentle person….sometimes I lose my temper and I have wacked my son…but it’s been rare and certainly not abusively…" Since he quantified with rare and not abusive, I take that to mean on rare occasions the kid gets a spanking. Do you tell your children you keep that up and your gonna get a spanking. No other words are used for spanking. We rarely spank here at our house. I figure about once a year my 15 year old son gets one. Usually after all else fails finally I will tell him if he doesn’t stop it now Im gonna smack you up side the head. He knows this means he will be leaning over my knee real swoon getting a couple swats on his butt. But if some one heard me they would have no idea what it meant between my son am I. "The poster says, essentially, "Well I tell him to do things and he just doesn’t listen.."And to that I go, yeah..like what did he expect?"
What makes you think these things are new since stimulants discontinued. The poster said he still has a difficult child. "That’s fine, but sending a child away without first trying the correct drug therapy is not helping the child. Its not keeping the family together, its not getting the correct treatment in the correct order, it is simply a parent not examining their motives critically."
How do you know they have not done it in this order. For that matter how do I know they have. An educated guess, for goodness sake the child is 12, they must have been doing something all these years. There is no way a sibling living through this is going to think if I get out of line they will send me away. " What was cut here? and in fact, yes, the person can refuse treatment, so what’s your point? It’s the paitent that can refuse. However, that does not
say anything about the rights of a parent to committ a child against his will. It specifically says a "mental health professional" or a court, NOT A PARENT." The code is very, very long. I only posted a small portion for the others. I figured you would go read the whole thing. I see you asked who when you reposted a portion of the code I posted, mental health professional is a psychiatrist or an MD who practices in the mental health field. Please read the whole thing. They don’t need to list a parent as we are the legal guardians allready. Until a child reaches the age of maturity, the parent is the one signing for admissions, and consents. It refers to giving emergency medication to someone commited by the court, ie someone who has no guardian yet. It doesn’t say a mental health professional can committ some one. " (I would like to point out that aside from calling people sickos, you are also under the impression that they couldn’t possibly be admitted to a treatment facility, right?- Anni)"
A definite poor choice of words for me to use "sicko" Guess I still have some diagnosis’s. No, I think if they really wanted to get inside they could. But it wouldn’t be simple to mess with the residents with so much going on and the structure in those places. I would be more concerned over the people watching and waiting to prey on an easy target if my child wandered outside. Once outside who knows where they will end up. People that prey on the weak go for the easy target, not the ones the have to work at. "I am really beginning to resent the fact that people assume that I haven’t got the exprience when the fact is I’d rather not give out incredibley personal information on the net. Yes, I have had, severel, members of my family in treatment facilities."
Then you now understand how others felt about some of your post when you assumed your facts. Maybe that poster didn’t want to give out more personel info either. All you had to say was been there done that. But you chose to use your SO as your only stated experience. Granted other family members is tough, real tough. But I gotta say I wouldn’t give my life to save members of my family. But I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to give my life for my kids. From reading some of the other posters I see you have no children. So no matter how much you love your family you can not comprehend how a parent feels about their kids. Heck I never understood my mom telling me such things untill I held my son after he was born. At that moment I understood completly. Those of you who have adopted don’t go getting mad. DH has adopted both my kids years ago. So I asked him if god told him either he dies or the kids. he was quick to respond take me. Of course I had to pry him away from a baseball game to ask. "In fact I was briefly put, legally, against my will intoan institution and
had to get myself out of one, which I accomplished in 72hours." Yes, they can only hold you for 72 hours without your consent. If you are of legal maturity, and they can not prove to a judge you are incapable of making informed decisions. Of course this wouldn’t apply to a child since they have not reached said age and have parents who are guardian for any legal purpose. "While medicade has been a potential gold mine for hospitals and facilities in
the past few years, more and more they are being restricted in what they can do." Just like every insurance company around. Someone is paying for the state hospital your SO ex-wife is in currently. "There is no such thing as unlimited federal money unless you’re Ken Starr. Yes she probably could have gotten some federal subsidies, but she would have also had to live in public housing (not neccessarily desirable if you live in NYC) attended public hospitals, she would have not received enough money to live anywhere else realisticly, plus she would have been required to take whatever drug they wanted her to take, plus aid that wouldn’t have come in cash, and would have been of questionable worth."
The unlimited federal money I was refering to was only medical money for the institution, medicaid. Not personal money for her to live off of. Continue reading the code I referred you to. It states they can not refuse to offer treatment, even if the patient is uncooperative or has a history of refusing treatment. EX…. So you won’t take your meds but you want other therapies. … They can not refuse them to you. "No, everyone was on meds, EVERYONE, whether it was a mood stablizer, and anti-depressent, thorazine (yes they still use it) lithium. I sincerely doubt that a hospital, realizing that a child will need meds, will agree to accept him without the consent to give him those meds. We cannot assume that this child will be put in a private, well-maintained facility as they vary. However, we can assume that they will try to put the child back on drug therapy barring an extream case of drug intolerance."
Then they had consent coming from somewhere. They can not give meds without informed consent. It is illegal to refuse admission because who ever is signing those consents says no meds. Any physician worth a dang is going to review the case history to see what was already done. Please again read the entire code. "What I read was the definition of what "Institutionalized persons" were, which included juveniles confined to an institution and a garuntee of their rights under the Constitution and the United States law, which includes the garuntee against unlawful imprisionment, and to not be committed to an institution without personal consent, without a court order or proof of being dangerous to oneself or other as decided by a "responsible health professional." Children *do* have a choice."
No the definition is the statue above the one you referred me to and the one you are trying to describe above, and the definition says none of the things you claim above. I know this makes the post even longer but here is that statue in it’s entirety. Note it doesn’t include legal guardians(parents), just those acting on behalf of the … read more »
Response:
expressed an opinion about Ok, you want a piece of me…
No not really leave that for your live in. Yeah, I’ve been in a residential treatment program, to WORK.
Ok so then you don’t know what it’s like to be inpatient. YOU got to go home when your shift was over. It’s very different. I used to work in a state hospital.
Also very different from a private facility. I’ve been in private facilities that took medicaid however (not that I’ve EVER been on medicaid) In addition, my mother worked at a local state hospital and my aunt was on staff as a psychiatric social worker at Pilgrim State Hospital (out on Long Island NY for those that don’t know) Plus, I’ve had my mother and my SO had his exwife in one,
I assume your live in had his ex wife in a hospital before you came on the scene (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here) therefore I wonder how you can form an opinion based on third party statements made by him. If however, you were around while this occurred then two things come to mind. Item one: you were involved somehow someway with him while he was still married to his wife. or Item two he is still involved with her while living with you. Either way does not bode well. And don’t give me the BS that he was just taking care of another individual. My best friends ex husband is dying of brain cancer and is already in hospice. He has no one to take care of him except their 18 yr old daughter and 15 year old son. She is there to support her kids and nothing more. She does not get involved at all. It’s not her place just like it’s not his place to be a caretaker for his ex wife even if there is no one else to care for her. In addition, if he HAD her in one that means he had her committed for the prerequisite 72 hour eval. If she signed herself in HE did NOT have HER IN anything. Did you commit your mother? If not then how can YOU claim responsibility for having her in the hospital. Both times I was in the hospital I went by my choice and my choice alone. I was taking care of myself. and I can tell you the minute you run out of insurance money your magically ‘cured’, something which has apparently happened to you.
Again, Anni you are not clear. Which happened to me a cure or running out of insurance? FYI Neither has ever occurred. I will never run out of insurance or money to take care of my health. In addition I will never be ‘cured’ and would never be so presumptuous to assume I am cured. Life is a continuous line and we are ever changing and growing. To say you are cured seems to preclude further growth. God forbid if your ina state hospital where they put you when you run out of money and still can’t be back on the street. Now your stuck with not only the poor, but the severely sick, and sometimes criminal which all of you get pumped up on drugs if you’re even the least violent or pissed off about being there, because not only is the hospital understaffed, but also to NOT do so if you really needed the medication would be malpractice.
The state hospitals pay poorly. Especially for scut staff which is what I assume you were. Of course if you are in a state facility you will be treated poorly by the staff who takes their frustration and anger out on the patients. As to how patients are treated by the professional staff I can only say that from my observations of my mother and my aunt (and neither did scut work) the professional staff does the best they can and are not responsible for the reprehensible behavior of the support staff. If this child should be on drugs and there is no compelling reason to take him off them, the FIRST thing this hospital will do is depense them to him.
Only if the parents agree to it. We are currently discussing hospitalizing my son for a medicine break since he has been on ritalin continuously for 11 years (24/7/365). There is no way we can do a med holiday for him without hospitalization. Plus, I am not sure you can just "put" a child into a residential treatment program he does not go into willing without a court order.
Sure can. YOU are the PARENT of a MINOR child. YOU are responsible for him. THE CHILD has no say. You know, you are under legal obligation to take care of your child, and
Yes, missy I know. I also think that if a child is out of control and the parents need a break, that respite care provided by a professional residential program is taking good care of the child. How can a person parent competently and positively if they are burnt out, frustrated and angry? to get a court order you need to be able to prove that you cannot provide for
But you don’t need a court order to put your child in a hospital. But then you don’t know that since you don’t have a child and therefore have never been burnt out as a parent, frustrated as a parent, angry as a parent, scared as a parent, or any other feelings parents have. Including the mixed emotions you suffer when you need to put your child in the hospital. your child and then he becomes a ward of the court which does as it sees fit.
I don’t believe you need to make the child a ward of the court to have services rendered for the child. Besides if you place your child in a private facility the state has nothing to do with it. Why do you assume that if a parent requires help for their child that they must be declared unfit or incompetent to care for the child? Does this apply to parents that insist that the state provide a proper education for them and that education is in a residential facility? Don’t answer that, since you don’t know. I’ll tell you…the answer is no. If a child goes to a state facility for treatment paid for by the state the parents still retain (legal) custody and control of the child. They DO NOT become wards of the state. What bothers me about the orginal post is the level of frustration displayed by the poster directed at his son, who’s behavior is not his fault and is now uncontrolled by a possible arbitrary decision of that same parent.
Like I said before, Miss High and Mighty, YOU are not a PARENT. YOU don’t have any IDEA of what it’s like to parent an average child much less an out of control emotionally disturbed child. I have seen Jesse’s posts before. Our sons have similar problems. We have spoken by email previously. I did not read his post closely this last time however, he has EVERY right to FEEL whatever he FEELS. Sometimes Anni, parents don’t much like their kids even when we love them. Jesse knows the behavior is not his son’s fault and he was just expressing his despair and frustration and anger. He was looking for OTHER PARENTS or PROFESSIONALS to offer SUPPORT and ADVICE. Are you a parent? Are you a professional? Can you say SUPPORT? Nessa, I thought we were done with this, you obviously have a serious problem.
We are done with SEX Anni. The rest of your issues I am just beginning. Again let me tell you that this is FUN! I don’t have any problems. If you think I have a serious problem please enlighten me in detail as to what this problem is since I am clearly clueless on what it could be. You are so easily upset and baited. Sweetie, this is USENET it’s not REAL. You need to know that you should take EVERYTHING you see on the INTERNET and USENET especially with a grain of salt. But then someone as unable to trust as you should understand that. You said we were having a debate, I’m wrong, and that I didn’t want to drop it, and when I do you continue engage in a full scale character assination rather
Show me where I assassinated your character. Where I ONCE said something about you that was not true. then act like an adult who has engaged in a debate or even an arguement. For someone who is so much older you are now displaying the maturity of an angry five year old. Please get over it. This is the last post of yours I’m going to respond to. I’m really getting fed up with the flame bait.
You have no idea what flame bait is. In addition I seriously doubt you can let it go Anni. Go ahead ignore me. Please. I dare you. Be the adult you claim I’m not and end this painful (for you) situation. Nessa — Life isn’t tried it is merely survived if your standing outside the fire Garth Brooks http://www.bestpages.com/nessa/batsced
Response:
We are done with SEX Anni
ROFLMHO. . . And the whole group heaved a sigh of relief! 
Later, Pam
Response:
At least SOMEONE has the same warped sense of humor I have. clearly expressed an opinion about We are done with SEX Anni ROFLMHO. . . And the whole group heaved a sigh of relief! Later, Pam
Nessa — Life isn’t tried it is merely survived if your standing outside the fire Garth Brooks http://www.bestpages.com/nessa/batsced
Response:
<snip Have you ever been put in a residentail treatment program?
No, my son has used 3, totaling 5 admisions. 1) private hospital, 2) 3) &4) state residential and 5) private residential. Also used an outpatient treatment facility associated with the state residential program. Do you know what they are like?
Oh you better believe I do. The will just drug him up again and thistimethey will add a whole lot of drugs his parents definately don’t want him tohave. Legally impossible, as they need to have signed consent from parent or legal gaurdian to give them anything. Verbal consent is acceptable for minor stuff like tylenol. The verbal stuff may differ from state to state, but the major stuff is federal law. Here I am a bit snotty but can anyone say OBRA. This is the law passed in 1987 defining the rights of patients in nursing homes. This law has been expanded and added to practically every medical facility. It is rewritten taylored to the specific type of facility. You can search the United Stated Code (this a listing of federal laws) title 42. If they want to pursue that track maybe they should try to put him back on his drugs first before they bed him with some kids with much more serious and untreatable problems,
Are you referring to the kids that are a danger to themselves and others? If so you are referring to my son prior to the wonderful help he recieved in those horrid institutions you speak of. A little history, PTSD, Major Depressive Episode Severe, Intermittent Explosive Disorder, Dysthymic Disorder. He was allready on his drugs and getting therapy. in a place where he will get *no* support or love.
O.K., so when they held him and comforted him in the middle of the night after nightmares, or kept him safe when he wanted to die, or when they helped him see how much he really wanted to live. Or when they taught him how to deal with his pain, anger, and hatred of himself. You don’t call that support! Love should be coming from us the parents anyway, though the long term kids I saw did seem to have a mutual emotional connection with the staff. Those places print nice brochuers and that’s about it.
I never saw one, but I guess they make them. Our insurance company recommended an out of state private residential facility when the realized he was getting nowhere in the local place. Did weI ever put some mileage on my car. They’re child prisons that steal insurance.
Well I have insurance, but it runs out quick. I filled the paper work out to put him on some kind of government insurance (you can do that if they don’t live with you but in the treatment facility). But I filled it out wrong and it never came through. The "child prison that steal insurance" decided he was so close to a major break through in his recovery they picked up the tab for the last 2 months. I have seen the bills from when they did bill my insurance, $18,000.00/month. Sorry, you don’t agree with me, I was just trying toprevent their kid from
becoming a wreck. <snip My kid would still be a wreck if it wasn’t for the residential program!!! Anni
Moving on to the next post, same author. Yeah, I’ve been in a residential treatment program, to WORK. I used to work in a state hospital.
So did I for 10 years. Never meet so many caring people in one place. I can’t remember how many times someone would do things for the residents on their own not paid time. Or a group got together to make sure some rotten employee got fired. Always looking out for the residents well being. To many other examples to explain. <snip , because not only is the hospital understaffed,
Yes that is a problem in all medical facilities. But they tend not to run short using overtime. Usually only small time private facilities ex. nursing homes make the staff run short handed. <snip Plus, I am not sure you can just "put" a child into a residential treatment
program he does not go into willing without a court order. Wrong, a minor has no say. Some of the private facilities prefer the child is willing, due to bed shortages. But is isn’t a prerequisit just a preference. If you got one bed and two people vying for the spot the willing will get it and the not goes on the waiting list. Unless the unwilling is much more in need of it. You know, you are under legal obligation to take care of your child, and to get a court order you need to be able to prove that you cannot provide for your child and then he becomes a ward of the court which does as it sees fit.
Wrong again. The only time you need a court order to commit your child is if they are living at home with you and you can’t afford to put them in the treatment facility. You don’t even need to prove you can’t afford it. You just file a Family with needs petition. The court appointed doctors evaluate the kid. They recommend to the judge this kids needs placement. Judge says okay and the state has to pick up the tab. The kid doesn’t need to be a criminal or a potential one for you to ask the courts to step in. The courts give you several place they have contracts with, you tour them and choose one. What bothers me about the orginal post is the level of frustration displayed by the poster directed at his son, <snip
<snip Anni I didn’t see where the frustration was directed at the child in the original post. Just the level of frustration the person was feeling. The doubts it was going to get better any time soon. Then explaing the root of the frustration. Like others and the original poster said you have not walked in his or my shoes and know not what you speak of. Until you live with the pain of watching your child slowly desinigrate before your eyes and taking everyone around him with him (no matter what the diagnosis is) you have no clue. To the original poster do remember if you choose this route it doesn’t mean forever. Yes their are some crappy places out there so just check them out. To the rest of you, sorry this was so long but it just made me so mad I had to respond.
Response:
Jesse- I really felt the pain and conflict in your post. I feel for you tremendously. In this society we live in where parent’s are soooo not in touch with how to parent effectively, it’s going to get out of hand with the social services intervention stuff. Sounds to me like you are not going to take him out of the house socially until he changes his behavior. Have you looked for short-term care for him so that you can get a bit of normality into your life? I’ll bet you could see things with more perspective with a little breather. Your situation is difficult, and with your permission, my wife and I will pray regularly for you. We’re Bible believing Christians. Mike
Response:
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anni, I take exception you practically ordering another adult to do something you want them to do. Based again on YOUR experience. This is their child. I would not take advice from someone else raising their child to tell me how to raise my child based on their experience. I am less inclined to take advice from someone who is childless. And don’t tell me you were a teenager or a child. It is my belief you still are. (or damn near close). I am sure I am old enough to be your mom. You speak from less experience than I had last year. You don’t have any right to tell others how to live. This is getting tiresome.
You are tiresome. Have you ever been put in a residentail treatment program? Do you know what they are like? The will just drug him up again and this time they will add a whole lot of drugs his parents definately don’t want him to have. If they want to pursue that track maybe they should try to put him back on his drugs first before they bed him with some kids with much more serious and untreatable problems, in a place where he will get *no* support or love. Those places print nice brochuers and that’s about it. They’re child prisons that steal insurance. Sorry, you don’t agree with me, I was just trying to prevent their kid from becoming a wreck. Maybe you know what they can do with him, if your so old and wise. Anni
Response:
and on about: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Anni, I take exception you practically ordering another adult to do something you want them to do. Based again on YOUR experience. This is their child. I would not take advice from someone else raising their child to tell me how to raise my child based on their experience. I am less inclined to take advice from someone who is childless. And don’t tell me you were a teenager or a child. It is my belief you still are. (or damn near close). I am sure I am old enough to be your mom. You speak from less experience than I had last year. You don’t have any right to tell others how to live. This is getting tiresome. You are tiresome.
Thank you. Have you ever been put in a residentail treatment program?
Yes, twice. How about you? Do you know what they are like?
Yes I do. Both for me and for a child of mine. Do you? The will just drug him up again and this time
How do you know this? they will add a whole lot of drugs his parents definately don’t want him to have.
And how do you know they don’t want him to have them? If they want to pursue that track maybe they should try to put him back on his drugs first before they bed him with some kids with much more serious and untreatable problems, in a place where he will get *no* support or love.
You haven’t been in the treatment programs I’ve been in or my son has been in. I guess that ONCE AGAIN Anni you are basing EVERYONE’S experience in a residential treatment program on YOUR personal experience. Again this is not a reasonable assumption. Both my son and I have had wonderful experiences as in patients. I also was day patient for a while. I was in more than one facility and always was treated with respect and support. Those places print nice brochuers and that’s about it. They’re child prisons that steal insurance. Sorry, you don’t agree with me, I was just trying to prevent their kid from becoming a wreck. Maybe you know what they can do with him, if your so old and wise.
If I had the answers I would be either God or very very rich and not have the time for your nonsense. Nessa — G-d always gives us what we need May what you want be what you need. Finally see me at http://www.bestpages.com/nessa
Response:
At one point I was posting alot to this group but then I kind of dropped out for a while…well I’m still here, still have a difficult kid to deal with…he’s 12(just) he has ADHD/OCD/Asperger’s…he talks incessantly and interrupts others conversations constantly…but the real problem is his aggressive/ explosiveness and his mouth…. <—snip— I’m not sure where this is going or what I expect anyone else to tell me except that I am just loing my patience and if it means putting him in a residencial placement then …maybe I should just go ahead and do it…if you think this is harsh thinking, then walk in my shoes….
Gosh what a crummy set of comorbidities in your difficult 12 year old son. Some times my relatively mild ADD 15 y.o. son can really us going when he is stubborn, irritable, and downright irrational. Tou’ve got a "full plate" and then some. You obviously care a lot about your son, and although you may have made an error in stopping his stimulant medication (what parent hasn’t made many errors raising a child), you sound like you really need a break today. Consider the rest of your family. You don’t want to see your wife (or you) get depressed, or even divorced. Maybe you should let rent out your son for target practice ….. [only kidding]. I vote for putting your little sh*t into a residential placement before he destroys a loving, caring family. It will only get worse as he gets older. Perhaps people trained to deal with his disorders can find the right combination of meds & behavior modification methods. After all, it does not have to be a permanent placement, and the intensive therapies that it should provide may just help your son from his destructive self.
Response:
writes: If I had the answers I would be either God or very very rich and not have the time for your nonsense. Nessa
Apparently you do. Anni
Response:
Do what? Have time for you nonsense. I just said I did. Sheesh how stupid can you be. I clearly said IF I had the answers I would either be god or very very rich and not have time for your nonsense. Clearly, my dear, this implies that since I am answering your garbage, I obviously have time to do so. I am not God nor am I very very rich. Therefore I have time. Learn to read and understand what you read. and on about: writes: If I had the answers I would be either God or very very rich and not have the time for your nonsense. Nessa Apparently you do. Anni
– Have you seen the miracle on the Web? http://www.bestpages.com/nessa/
Response:
writes: Sheesh how stupid can you be. I clearly said IF I had the answers I would either be god or very very rich and not have time for your nonsense.
Ok, you want a piece of me… Yeah, I’ve been in a residential treatment program, to WORK. I used to work in a state hospital. Plus, I’ve had my mother and my SO had his exwife in one, and I can tell you the minute you run out of insurance money your magically ‘cured’, something which has apparently happened to you. God forbid if your in a state hospital where they put you when you run out of money and still can’t be back on the street. Now your stuck with not only the poor, but the severely sick, and sometimes criminal which all of you get pumped up on drugs if you’re even the least violent or pissed off about being there, because not only is the hospital understaffed, but also to NOT do so if you really needed the medication would be malpractice. If this child should be on drugs and there is no compelling reason to take him off them, the FIRST thing this hospital will do is depense them to him. Plus, I am not sure you can just "put" a child into a residential treatment program he does not go into willing without a court order. You know, you are under legal obligation to take care of your child, and to get a court order you need to be able to prove that you cannot provide for your child and then he becomes a ward of the court which does as it sees fit. What bothers me about the orginal post is the level of frustration displayed by the poster directed at his son, who’s behavior is not his fault and is now uncontrolled by a possible arbitrary decision of that same parent. Nessa, I thought we were done with this, you obviously have a serious problem. You said we were having a debate, I’m wrong, and that I didn’t want to drop it, and when I do you continue engage in a full scale character assination rather then act like an adult who has engaged in a debate or even an arguement. For someone who is so much older you are now displaying the maturity of an angry five year old. Please get over it. This is the last post of yours I’m going to respond to. I’m really getting fed up with the flame bait. Anni
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Noonetwo) writes: I would like to point out that this child was taken off his medication for no apparent reason other then the arbitrary decision of a parent. It appears from the post that the child was fine before the removal of the meds and when they were removed his behavior deterioated to the point where the child might be considered a danger at some future point. The parent in this case has decided that instead of getting either correct or ANY drug therapy, to confine the child where they will not longer have to deal with it. <snip some of Anni’s stuff Went back and re-read the original post. I could find no where the reasons the medications were stopped. Therefore the benefit of the doubt would go with the original poster.
Why should it? Perhaps there was no reason other then the decision of the parent. Which is why the first question I asked was WHY was this done. You might be right, it might not work, he might have complicatons or he might not. My point was the parent should not just arbitraily make that decision. I have to take what the poster says at face value. Nor has he, nor any other person with closer contact volenteered any reason other then that parent’s personal belief. If he said he did this, with no apparent reason, then he did it. We had a parent who was doing on again off again drug therapy with her children and who didn’t understand why it wasn’t working. The drug she was using had to build up and if you went off it suddenly it would cause extream abdominal pain. She was actuallyy hurting the kids, because she didn’t like the drugs, didn’t like the behavior and didn’t understand any of it. It could be that the child was having complications related to the medication, not necessarily an arbitrary decision of the parent. He did mention the kid gained 30 lbs. after stoping the stimulants, for all we know the kid is still on other meds. I also saw nothing saying the childs behavior was fine before the removal of the meds. What I saw was quote" still have a difficult kid to deal with…he’s 12(just) hehasADHD/OCD/Asperger’s" end quote.
Well, yes, my point being is that of course they will if they took him off the meds. The poster says, essentially, "Well I tell him to do things and he just doesn’t listen.."And to that I go, yeah..like what did he expect? I realize its frustrating. I realize this family is hurting. But when he expects things like "simple things that parents should expect their kids to willingly do" …, and when he goes on to say he has "whacked" his kid but is a "stable, controlled and gentle" person, I have a problem. Maybe if he didn’t whack his child at all, the kid wouldn’t be mimicking the behavior with his sister and his mother. The act of wondering why this particular child is acting in a certian way bespeaks a frightening misunderstanding of what is wrong with him, how much he can control, and how quickly he can control it. Perhaps he’s angry and violent because his father doesn’t understand what wrong with him and it frustrates him. I have an LD which makes life very difficult. Believe me its enough to make me want to be violent when someone, most likely a parent, goes, "Well, why can’t you just_____" Or ‘If you just tried harder…" Sure, I can try harder, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to improve immediately. Certianly, if someone "whacked" me I might be a little upset. I guess I sympathize with the child more then the parent in this case. To add to that, now he harps on the child to exercise, when he just got off stim meds which are know to be "diet pills." The child’s behavior hasn’t changed one iota, its just the pills aren’t there to slough off the pounds. Yet, this parent expects this child to get up and change his behavior drastically, without any help or motivation. How unfair. These 3 diagnosis together must be very hard on everyone. My heart goes out to that family. Poster also mentioned how aggressive the boy is and mom is already afraid of him. Saying his anger is directed at family members. Also mentioned how daughter was falling through the cracks, the stress level in the house is high and he and his spouce are taking it out on each other. I would hazard a guess that what ever treatments they are using are not working and the man is looking for an alternative to help everyone.
That’s fine, but sending a child away without first trying the correct drug therapy is not helping the child. Its not keeping the family together, its not getting the correct treatment in the correct order, it is simply a parent not examining their motives critically. Plus, you run the risk of having the child resent you even more because you sent him away, and it sends the message to not only that child, but to the other children that if you get out of line because you’re sick you’ll be locked up. The poster was right. It is harsh thinking. Are you suggesting that the appropriate way to treat people, children or otherwise is to deny them medicine, wait until they get really sick, and then place them in a hospital? <snip of my old post Right, and will apply up until you sign the release admitting him into the facility and releasing him to be treated by the doctors which will want to put him on drug therapy. Check your paperwork. Wrong read the correct code, I see you read the wrong code. See Title 42, chapter 114, subchapter 2, 10841. For those of you in the news group here is a highlight from that code, quote "(D) The right not to receive a mode or course of treatment, established pursuant to the treatment plan, in the absence of such person’s informed, voluntary, written consent to such mode or course of treatment, except treatment –
What was cut here? and in fact, yes, the person can refuse treatment, so what’s your point? It’s the paitent that can refuse.
If you like this post and would like to receive updates from this blog, please subscribe our feed.