Question:
Does anyone know anything about the work of British psychiatrist Wm Sargent after the last war who treated traumatised soldiers with sodium pentathol. First he got them to reexperience the trauma then he found it worked better if he got them to experience "fear or anger to the point of collapse". He didnt say what this point was or how you could recognise it. I wonder what this would indicate about the brain chemistry of PTSD and the contribution of adrenaline. Estelle
Response:
Yikes! Sounds kinda scary! In article <1998040821045200.RAA22…@ladder03.news.aol.com>, ed…@aol.com (EddaB) wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the work of British psychiatrist Wm Sargent > after the last war who treated traumatised soldiers with sodium pentathol. > First he got them to reexperience the trauma then he found it worked better if > he got them to experience "fear or anger to the point of collapse". He didnt > say what this point was or how you could recognise it. > I wonder what this would indicate about the brain chemistry of PTSD and the > contribution of adrenaline. > Estelle
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Response:
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 wallpa…@pop.service.ohio-state.edu wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> lonepine wrote: > >EddaB wrote: > >>Does anyone know anything about the work of British psychiatrist > >>Wm Sargent after the last war who treated traumatised soldiers with > >>sodium pentathol. > >>First he got them to reexperience the trauma then he found it worked > >>better if he got them to experience "fear or anger to the point of > >>collapse". He didnt say what this point was or how you could recognise > >>it. > >>I wonder what this would indicate about the brain chemistry of PTSD and > >>the contribution of adrenaline. > >>Estelle > >Yikes! Sounds kinda scary!
Not to mention heavy-handed and dangerous! > Sounds similar to my experience with EMDR, but I’m not made to "experience > ‘fear or anger to the point of collapse’". I retrace the memory or abusive > incident and sometimes we "lay new track" (fill in what probably occured > after the event to get me past the event). But I am always free to raise my > hands and stop things in an instant if I get overwhelmed/overwrought/stuck.
I feel very safe in the EMDR experience. I would *not* like to be drugged in order to reprocess my traumatic memories. But in the days before EMDR, I would’ve taken *any* drug that might’ve helped free me from thise intrusive memories. > The object is to allow me to learn that I can think about these things, > feel the feelings and not "die". Going through a memory numerous times, > reminding myself that this is now and that was then, talking to the > younger me, remembering that I am safe NOW (and have legal recourse, in > my case, to protect that safety) takes the teeth, some of the anxiety and > imminent danger out of the memory. It literally desensitizes you to it, > when it works.
And thank God it does! I never could understan how some people could dismiss a bad memory with a "Oh well, that’s all over, now", and really seem to mean it. Now, for the first time in my life, I *know*, and I have some measure of peace. And it’s made me deal with the painful experiences that *do* arise in the here-and-now differently. I just don’t go off the deep end, like I used to. > I can’t imagine being taken "to the point of collapse" to heal a memory, > I’ve been "to the point of collapse" and I find myself burnt out there. > EMDR allows me to work from the here and now, using the strengths that > helped me to survive initially, and allows me the comfort of a trusted > therapist to stand by me as I work through the scary stuff.
Hear, hear! But maybe that blunt-object approach was necessary, and even very helpful, before. Anybody seen the movie "Spellbound"? It’s approach is *so* Freudian, and *so* old-fashioned, it’s almost laughable, by today’s standards- but that Freudian stuff really *helped* people. And here I’ve just got to add that I’m *very* happy the see Wally back again. Missed you, Sweetie. =o) HUG, April – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> JMTCW
Response:
ed…@aol.com (EddaB) wrote: >Does anyone know anything about the work of British psychiatrist Wm Sargent >after the last war who treated traumatised soldiers with sodium pentathol. >First he got them to reexperience the trauma then he found it worked better if >he got them to experience "fear or anger to the point of collapse". He didnt >say what this point was or how you could recognise it. >I wonder what this would indicate about the brain chemistry of PTSD and the >contribution of adrenaline. >Estelle
He used the sodium pentathol to get the patient to discuss and feel in a very intense way (hence produce the abreaction. However this method was used for acute and immediate cases. The soldier was sent back to the front lines after ‘getting it all out.’ The idea was to get him back with his unit where they were less likely to have continued problems (separation from the unit was a stressor in addition to their war experiences). This was a short time treatment. This treatment was not for people still experiencing symptoms of PTSD months and years later. Secondly, this method is no longer recommended if I remember correctly. Now the approach is on dealing with the situations, feelings, etc. as they come up without necessarily overwhelming the patient (as an abreaction does). Individual and/or group therapy is indicated. Additionally it should be noted that group therapy among people with similar experiences has tended to be used as treatment even in his day. (I beleive his research was on WWII combatants.) Hope this helps. M.S.
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