Trauma – PTSD

Question:

First of all, I am changing the thread name now because this is the second off-topic response to my post on OCD professions. I’m not obsessing here folks, it is considered proper netiquette to change the subject if your reply has nothing to do with the subject you are responding to. Now, about medication not curing OCD. What you are implying is that a chemical imbalance of the brain can be corrected by self-control. I most strongly disagree!!! If this were possible would you then expect cancer and diabetes patients to cure themselves? I think this is a dangerous attitude to display. Many of us have suffered for years trying to gain control over our medical illnesses, and have had to learn to swallow the shame of not being able to fix it ourselves, and to accept the medical support required. Granted, symptomatic relief, for some people, to one degree or another, can be obtained without medication. But a cure? I think not. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -handy wrote: > On 1 Jul 1998 00:43:33 GMT, steal…@aol.com (StealCan) wrote: > >despondant. I do get frustrated with current treatments and therapy. If anybody > >knows a way  to bea t  OCD  I would love to hear it. > >I know asking that question  is incredibly simplistic  but trying the obvious > >sometimes works. > >                      Thanks > There is a lot of talk about using drugs to beat OCD. Drugs cannot > cure it, they can manage the symptoms. > Also, my major gripe about using drugs for OCD is that the drugs do > not show the person how to get to the state of mind of relief. > It can be done, getting to that state, but it’s major mind work.

Response:

Julie wrote:< Now, about medication not curing OCD. What you are implying is

that a chemical imbalance of the brain can be corrected by self-control. I most strongly disagree!!!> Julie, I personally believe that the medication is an enormous help; however, I also think combining it with behavior therapy gives the greatest result. Because of all the frustrating years most of us have spent before proper diagnosis/treatment, may OCD sufferers are habituated to rituals that serve to increase the anxiety, obsessions and urges.  Behavior therapy, which takes an enormous amount of – well, something, call it will-power, restraint, blind faith, whatever – breaks the chain of habituated responses, and in doing so busts up the obsessions and anxiety that go along with them. Having said all that, I will once again state that I think the medication makes it easier/possible to do this. Lisa

Response:

> Now, about medication not curing OCD. What you are implying is that a >chemical imbalance of the brain can be corrected by self-control. I most >strongly disagree!!!

Actually, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, wich has been scientifially proven to work in some people without the help of medication (though most are on medication and do CBT, the people that dont’ use medication usually do so because they are unable to for some reason), can change the brain chemistry of a person with OCD. It works by training the brain that there is no need to give the fearful responses to certain things, and how to process things without getting stuck in a loop. The reason this works more knowingly with OCD than some other ailment is because to a degree people have cognitive control of their thoughts and actions. A person that is a severe handwasher can technically refrain from washing their hands, though they often feel they don’t, or don’t want to because of the severe anxiety. If the person is responsive to the CBT, the more they resist the urge to irrationally wash, over time, their anxiety levels will drop and idealy the urge to wash will disappear, because they have tought a certain part of their brain that the fear of germs or what have you, was just a fear and nothing that would truley harm them or someone else, etc. Stopping obsessive thoughts with CBT tends to be harder than stopping compulsions, in my opinion, but in certain people, it can be done with various techneques. But whether you use medication, CBT, or both, there is no actual cure for OCD, just treatments.

Response:

In article <359AB048.5E14E…@sover.net>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  jbkNOS…@sover.net wrote: > First of all, I am changing the thread name now because this is the second off-topic > response to my post on OCD professions. I’m not obsessing here folks, it is > considered proper netiquette to change the subject if your reply has nothing to do > with the subject you are responding to. > Now, about medication not curing OCD. What you are implying is that a chemical > imbalance of the brain can be corrected by self-control. I most strongly disagree!!! > If this were possible would you then expect cancer and diabetes patients to cure > themselves? I think this is a dangerous attitude to display. Many of us have > suffered for years trying to gain control over our medical illnesses, and have had > to learn to swallow the shame of not being able to fix it ourselves, and to accept > the medical support required. Granted, symptomatic relief, for some people, to one > degree or another, can be obtained without medication. But a cure? I think not. > Julie

I’ll be another one to disagree somewhat w/Julie… It’s my understanding and my experience that neural pathways in the brain that are causing the problem can be somewhat corrected, totally corrected in some cases, by modifying one’s behavior on purpose…The reasoning is that when you modify the behavior, you’re automatically "correcting" the pathways that are accustomed to behaving in the obsessing/compulsive ways that have been ingrained.  Through repitition, just like anything that you repeat over and over, you create a new reaction to situations that were problematic before. The reason drugs and therapy are combined for optimal results IS because the drugs help force the biochemical transformation to take place…in certain phychoactive problems, the drug is used only for a year, then dropped once the new behavior has become ingrained successfully. So I tend to believe anything’s possible without drugs.  Personally, I detest drugs, and HAVE found I can correct some of my o/c through immense effort. My main problem is that as terribly stressful and annoying and distressing as my problems can be, I can largely live with them, almost *preferring* to have them because I place importance on some of them. So that’s me.  Hell, I’m mostly happy anyway, and thanks to As Good As It Gets, it’s almost ‘hip’ to have what I have!  (lol, I’m being silly). —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Response:

I don’t think the solution is in terms of a job change. I didn’t see anything about treatment. What I would recomend is getting treatment which might include both medication and cognitive behavioral therapy so that what ever you do OCD interferes less in your life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Julie Klar wrote: > I would be interested in hearing what other OCDers have found out about > themselves and their occupational choices. How many of us are in jobs > that require a lot of OCD to be successful (like me and accounting)? > Several years ago, before I knew about OCD, I left the freelance > accounting world to be a social worker, because I thought my tendency to > be super-analytical and driven, normally good qualities for accounting > and freelancing, was actually causing me too much "stress".  I thought > changing careers and thus shifting the side of my brain that got used > would make me feel more balanced, less stressed, more well-rounded. What > I learned was that working with child abuse victims and their abusers > was far more stressful than my highly sensitive soul could take, and > after two years I left with full blown PAD, PTSD, OCD, and enlarged > adrenal glands. > I didn’t want to go back to accounting, for the same reasons I left it, > but that is what happened. I know that my personality "problems" make me > excel at what I do, but I hate the way my job triggers more OCD type > behavior. There are further complications because I although I am in > charge of the accounting department for a large multi-million dollar > company, I am only given 16 hrs/week to get my job done. None of my > employees know accounting. I have tried to make it clear this is not > good for the business, but no changes are on the horizon. > My OCD and depression have increased dramatically, and I am now > suffering back spasms on Mondays, when I go back to work. I can control > them somewhat by forcing myself to relax my muscles, which tells me > exactly what I have known and not paid attention to. The stress of this > job is not good for me. This is more than just "find another place to > work". I am starting to see that I can not work in a job where my OCD is > an asset. > So where to now? I was a great social worker, winning awards and > judicial accomendations the first year. My clients loved me, and the > therapists in the area said I should be a therapist. The lawyers said I > should be a lawyer. I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up, I > just know I need to start paying attention to my body, and mind. > Please folks, write and tell me how you deal with OCD and work. > Julie Klar

– Jim Claiborn PhD ABPP If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

If by cure you mean complete relief of symptoms for the rest of your life that seems to be unattainable for most people with OCD. However both medications and cognitive behavioral treatment can bring significant relief. In addition there is evidence that both treatments produce changes in the brain that look very similar. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Julie Klar wrote: > First of all, I am changing the thread name now because this is the second off-topic > response to my post on OCD professions. I’m not obsessing here folks, it is > considered proper netiquette to change the subject if your reply has nothing to do > with the subject you are responding to. > Now, about medication not curing OCD. What you are implying is that a chemical > imbalance of the brain can be corrected by self-control. I most strongly disagree!!! > If this were possible would you then expect cancer and diabetes patients to cure > themselves? I think this is a dangerous attitude to display. Many of us have > suffered for years trying to gain control over our medical illnesses, and have had > to learn to swallow the shame of not being able to fix it ourselves, and to accept > the medical support required. Granted, symptomatic relief, for some people, to one > degree or another, can be obtained without medication. But a cure? I think not. > Julie > handy wrote: > > On 1 Jul 1998 00:43:33 GMT, steal…@aol.com (StealCan) wrote: > > >despondant. I do get frustrated with current treatments and therapy. If anybody > > >knows a way  to bea t  OCD  I would love to hear it. > > >I know asking that question  is incredibly simplistic  but trying the obvious > > >sometimes works. > > >                      Thanks > > There is a lot of talk about using drugs to beat OCD. Drugs cannot > > cure it, they can manage the symptoms. > > Also, my major gripe about using drugs for OCD is that the drugs do > > not show the person how to get to the state of mind of relief. > > It can be done, getting to that state, but it’s major mind work.

– Jim Claiborn PhD ABPP If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

In article <359AB048.5E14E…@sover.net>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  jbkNOS…@sover.net wrote: > First of all, I am changing the thread name now because this is the second off-topic > response to my post on OCD professions. I’m not obsessing here folks, it is > considered proper netiquette to change the subject if your reply has nothing to do > with the subject you are responding to. > Now, about medication not curing OCD. What you are implying is that a chemical > imbalance of the brain can be corrected by self-control. I most strongly disagree!!! > If this were possible would you then expect cancer and diabetes patients to cure > themselves? I think this is a dangerous attitude to display. Many of us have > suffered for years trying to gain control over our medical illnesses, and have had > to learn to swallow the shame of not being able to fix it ourselves, and to accept > the medical support required. Granted, symptomatic relief, for some people, to one > degree or another, can be obtained without medication. But a cure? I think not. > Julie > handy wrote: > > On 1 Jul 1998 00:43:33 GMT, steal…@aol.com (StealCan) wrote: > > >despondant. I do get frustrated with current treatments and therapy. If anybody > > >knows a way  to bea t  OCD  I would love to hear it. > > >I know asking that question  is incredibly simplistic  but trying the obvious > > >sometimes works. > > >                      Thanks > > There is a lot of talk about using drugs to beat OCD. Drugs cannot > > cure it, they can manage the symptoms. > > Also, my major gripe about using drugs for OCD is that the drugs do > > not show the person how to get to the state of mind of relief. > > It can be done, getting to that state, but it’s major mind work. > i agree with julie…if a ehavior is caused by a chemical imbalance in the

brain, how could one possibly control it willfully?  if anyone finds a way, then i predict you to be a future milionaire —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Julie Klar wrote: > I would be interested in hearing what other OCDers have found out about > themselves and their occupational choices. How many of us are in jobs > that require a lot of OCD to be successful (like me and accounting)? > Several years ago, before I knew about OCD, I left the freelance > accounting world to be a social worker, because I thought my tendency to > be super-analytical and driven, normally good qualities for accounting > and freelancing, was actually causing me too much "stress".  I thought > changing careers and thus shifting the side of my brain that got used > would make me feel more balanced, less stressed, more well-rounded. What > I learned was that working with child abuse victims and their abusers > was far more stressful than my highly sensitive soul could take, and > after two years I left with full blown PAD, PTSD, OCD, and enlarged > adrenal glands. > I didn’t want to go back to accounting, for the same reasons I left it, > but that is what happened. I know that my personality "problems" make me > excel at what I do, but I hate the way my job triggers more OCD type > behavior. There are further complications because I although I am in > charge of the accounting department for a large multi-million dollar > company, I am only given 16 hrs/week to get my job done. None of my > employees know accounting. I have tried to make it clear this is not > good for the business, but no changes are on the horizon. > My OCD and depression have increased dramatically, and I am now > suffering back spasms on Mondays, when I go back to work. I can control > them somewhat by forcing myself to relax my muscles, which tells me > exactly what I have known and not paid attention to. The stress of this > job is not good for me. This is more than just "find another place to > work". I am starting to see that I can not work in a job where my OCD is > an asset. > So where to now? I was a great social worker, winning awards and > judicial accomendations the first year. My clients loved me, and the > therapists in the area said I should be a therapist. The lawyers said I > should be a lawyer. I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up, I > just know I need to start paying attention to my body, and mind. > Please folks, write and tell me how you deal with OCD and work. > Julie Klar

I’m a recording engineer.  I make records.  And I am known for going to the Nth degree to get it right.  It’s a good/bad thing. I think all true artists are obsessive.  And that with OCD; the job is never finished…just abandoned. *sigh* -Scott

Response:

>If anybody<BR> >knows a way  to bea t  OCD  I would love to hear it.<BR>

Cognitve behavior therapy and medication have worked wonders for me.  Although I know I will always have to be sensitive to OCD tendencies and stress, my life is now essentially obsession and compulsion free, I feel good most of the time, and I’m having fun. Of course, the other side of the coin is that I spent so many years trying to get up to feeling "not awful" that now that I’m feeling pretty good most of the time I don’t quite know what to do with myself!  Strange problem, no?

Response:

On 1 Jul 1998 00:43:33 GMT, steal…@aol.com (StealCan) wrote: >despondant. I do get frustrated with current treatments and therapy. If anybody >knows a way  to bea t  OCD  I would love to hear it. >I know asking that question  is incredibly simplistic  but trying the obvious >sometimes works. >                      Thanks

There is a lot of talk about using drugs to beat OCD. Drugs cannot cure it, they can manage the symptoms. Also, my major gripe about using drugs for OCD is that the drugs do not show the person how to get to the state of mind of relief. It can be done, getting to that state, but it’s major mind work.

Response:

I would be interested in hearing what other OCDers have found out about themselves and their occupational choices. How many of us are in jobs that require a lot of OCD to be successful (like me and accounting)? Several years ago, before I knew about OCD, I left the freelance accounting world to be a social worker, because I thought my tendency to be super-analytical and driven, normally good qualities for accounting and freelancing, was actually causing me too much "stress".  I thought changing careers and thus shifting the side of my brain that got used would make me feel more balanced, less stressed, more well-rounded. What I learned was that working with child abuse victims and their abusers was far more stressful than my highly sensitive soul could take, and after two years I left with full blown PAD, PTSD, OCD, and enlarged adrenal glands. I didn’t want to go back to accounting, for the same reasons I left it, but that is what happened. I know that my personality "problems" make me excel at what I do, but I hate the way my job triggers more OCD type behavior. There are further complications because I although I am in charge of the accounting department for a large multi-million dollar company, I am only given 16 hrs/week to get my job done. None of my employees know accounting. I have tried to make it clear this is not good for the business, but no changes are on the horizon. My OCD and depression have increased dramatically, and I am now suffering back spasms on Mondays, when I go back to work. I can control them somewhat by forcing myself to relax my muscles, which tells me exactly what I have known and not paid attention to. The stress of this job is not good for me. This is more than just "find another place to work". I am starting to see that I can not work in a job where my OCD is an asset. So where to now? I was a great social worker, winning awards and judicial accomendations the first year. My clients loved me, and the therapists in the area said I should be a therapist. The lawyers said I should be a lawyer. I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up, I just know I need to start paying attention to my body, and mind. Please folks, write and tell me how you deal with OCD and work. Julie Klar

Response:

Julie said: >I would be interested in hearing what other OCDers have found out about >themselves and their occupational choices.

Hi Julie, I test software on a consultant basis, ie. about every 6 months I go to a new company to test different software. A QA Engineer (one who tests software) has to think of every possible way the software could and could not work and test it.  Having OCD allows me to excel in my job because I’m able to think of every little thing that could go wrong. I’m able to look at a large picture, break it into smaller pieces and attack it.   I’ve learned not to let my job trigger the OCD.  I just relax, go at a decent pace (not a crazy pace) and do what I can.  My bosses tend to leave me alone with this philosphy and don’t push me into a crazy schedule.  My OCD is no longer triggered by my job. Anne

Response:

Thanks for responding, Anne. Can you tell me more about how you got to the point of relaxing and not allowing yourself to be led by the OCD? Did you find reaching a correct dose of meds helpful? People tell me not to expect more from myself than I would anyone else, but I do expect more. I can do more, but it is not to my benefit. Not only is the OCD triggeed, but I find bosses are threatened by this. Julie Klar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -AnneF8 wrote: > Julie said: > >I would be interested in hearing what other OCDers have found out about > >themselves and their occupational choices. > Hi Julie, > I test software on a consultant basis, ie. about every 6 months I go to a new > company to test different software. > A QA Engineer (one who tests software) has to think of every possible way the > software could and could not work and test it.  Having OCD allows me to excel > in my job because I’m able to think of every little thing that could go wrong. > I’m able to look at a large picture, break it into smaller pieces and attack > it. > I’ve learned not to let my job trigger the OCD.  I just relax, go at a decent > pace (not a crazy pace) and do what I can.  My bosses tend to leave me alone > with this philosphy and don’t push me into a crazy schedule.  My OCD is no > longer triggered by my job. > Anne

Response:

>Please folks, write and tell me how you deal with OCD and work.<BR>

Dear Julie, My OCD tendencies also have been as asset at work – I am in sales in the publishing business.   A couple of things that have worked for me – one, is that when I went into treatment, my doc told me that in giving up the OCD tendencies I would become less "perfect" at my job, and that is exactly what has happened.  Now, I forget things, have to have things re-faxed, lose things – but guess what – so does everyone else, and I’ve discovered that I’m still great at my job without driving myself crazy. The other thing is, I have accomodated who I am; I am incorporated in my own business, and although I work for a company I do so as a freelancer, at home, and set my own schedule.  My agreement is to "get the job done", and I work @ 25 to 30 hours/week.   I have found that I get far more respect from my colleagues as a freelancer than I ever did as an employee; I make good money, and nobody bothers me.  When I need to take time for therapy, I just do it. I’m able to do this because I’m covered under my husband’s medical insurance, and since we have a child working at home works for me anyway.   Love, Lisa

Response:

It’s interesting how people will try to make the most of a bad situation. Take for example someone who is blind and they may tell you that their hearing is much more accute to take up the slack. OCD has interfered with my home life and my job. The only thing I want from it is for it to be gone, gone, gone. I may sound a little bitter but I saw what the other ( OCD free world) has to offer and living with OCD is a jail to me. The worst part is, I don’t think it’s something that I will be able to beat, but I’ll bet it will get it’s fair share of me. i am not depressed or despondant. I do get frustrated with current treatments and therapy. If anybody knows a way  to bea t  OCD  I would love to hear it. I know asking that question  is incredibly simplistic  but trying the obvious sometimes works.                       Thanks

Response:

Julie said: >Can you tell me more about how you got to the point of relaxing and not >allowing >yourself to be led by the OCD?

I was always worried about not having enough money to live off of.  So I started living way below my means, saved up money.  I was no longer worried about loosing my job because I had reserves to live off of. Did you find reaching a correct dose of meds >helpful? People tell me not to expect more from myself than I would anyone >else, >but I do expect more. I can do more, but it is not to my benefit. Not only is >the >OCD triggeed, but I find bosses are threatened by this.

Perhaps you are type "A" personality.  I’m inbetween A and B.  My accomplishments at work are not rewarding to me.  I go to work, get a good days work done, learn some new things and I’m all set.  I come home, don’t think about work, and do others things.  Type "A" person is interested in working to get things accomplished.  I work to get a paycheck and I also work to show others who Jesus Christ is.  I believe I am His representative at work. Hope it helps. Good luck. Anne

Response:

Julie Klar asks << I would be interested in hearing what other OCDers have found out about themselves and their occupational choices. >> I’m unsure whether OCD led to my becoming a journalist, but in my work as a copy editor and fact-checker, the condition probably has had its benefits — such as compelling me to re-read a crime story seven times and checking for attribution before sending it on to the composing room. Journalism, especially the community journalism we do, is very fact-sensitive. When you write about somebody getting charged with a crime, you’d better be sure of the facts or you’ll end up in court. This behavior can get uncomfortably close to alarm-clock checking, though. Like many here, I’ve destroyed the stems of many a clock.  : ) I sought help for depression and OCD earlier this year when I found myself repetitively scratching the hell out of my legs at work. Safely concealed by my desk in my private office, one day I so thoroughly shredded the skin that the legs of my slacks were soaked with big ugly stains. When the skin began to heal several days later, I became obsessed with pulling off the scabs in perfect symmetry. I think I’ve always had these tendencies (I can recall leg-scratching episodes in my childhood), but recent work-related stress only fueled them more. I’m now taking 100 mg of Luvox before bedtime, and it seems to have helped a good deal. I still occasionally feel the need to scratch, but the urge has dropped by close to 75 percent. I also have some Librium to take if things get really warped out at work, but I’ve only taken them a couple of times in the past month. I’ve noticed a few side effects with Luvox: — Increased sweating. I’ve had to increase anti-perspirant use. — A general lethargy. I’ve mostly been able to work through it. I try to go running three times a week for about five miles, and it’s been a real struggle to keep that going. — I’ve noticed an increase in libido, but it takes longer to reach orgasm. I’m also using some helpful CBT in conjunction with the drugs. Since beginning the therapy a couple of months ago, I’ve joked to my therapists that my company ought to put Luvox into the water fountain. Now that my head is beginning to clear, I can see many people suffering with similar problems. Leigh

Response:

I have an excellent cognitive therapist.  After many years of therapy, I’m starting to be able to intercept the OCD symptoms! Don’t let it get you!!! Anne

Response:

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