Question:
What are all of you guys talking about anyway? You know that you DESERVED it!!
Response:
What are all of you guys talking about anyway? You know that you DESERVED it!!
Rita Are you directing this to all guys are to some one in particular? Venting?? Just hate men?? Sincerely john
Response:
What are all of you guys talking about anyway? You know that you DESERVED it!!
Fake e-mail address: -2 points. Power Ranger reference: -1 point (I hate them too, but so what) No specific reference to on-going thread:: -5 points Use of one of the most tired cliches: -10 points (at least be original) Less than 10 lines long: -5 points per line (-40 points total) Total: -58 points Assuming you began with 100 points, this leaves only 42 points, which is a badly failing grade. My 9 year old could do better, but he’s a nice kid and wouldn’t think of it. Better luck next time. Blain
Response:
What are all of you guys talking about anyway? You know that you DESERVED it!!
Um, Rita, I don’t quite understand the connection between your header (‘please help’, and people do help, all the time, here) and what you wrote above. You’re welcome in the newsgroup if you want to share your experience and ask for help or support others depending on how strong you feel at the time 
But please remember there are a lot of very hurt people here. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to do any damage. Clytie — Pete & Clytie Riverland, South Australia
Response:
I`m in need of your help – but I dont know where to start – I have been so close to the edge recently that I think this might just be my last resort.
Then you are here and on the road to recovery 
You’ll get a lot of support here. There are many people in different parts of the path to help you and we would like to very much Don’t push what you are not ready to speak about and that is ok. You can even talk about the weather if you’d like Best, Panther
Response:
I`m in need of your help – but I dont know where to start – I have been so close to the edge recently that I think this might just be my last resort.
Response:
I`m in need of your help – but I dont know where to start – I have been so close to the edge recently that I think this might just be my last resort.
Are you ok ? What is wrong ? Mark
Response:
Dragon.. life here is upside down at the moment.. and i don’t have much time to address this..
I’m sorry to hear you are having problems. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are talking about a 30 year old man, who *still* thinks that a 5 year old can consent to sexual activity. Did we read this??? Well, I thought I did. She said this is what he told her. And that was my point.. She said he said this.. He didn’t.. My gut feeling is/was she has projected much into this.. Hence my scarcastic remarks about denial/in txt…
Yes, I understand that you are coming from you own perspective. We all do. My gut reaction, however, is that she is confused. I also don’t see anything in her post to indicate that she hates this guy and wants to hurt him. In fact, if that was her goal, she probably would have posted his *name*. I cannot react to him. He’s not here. If he were, I might change my opinion. On the basis of what I know right now, I would be wary of him. Got a question for you to ponder here.. Why is it that 15 year old is not capable (legally) of giving consent to enter into a sexual relationship with someone because they are not of an age to fully understand the reprecussions of such.. and YET can be held liable (criminally) if they are seen to be the aggressor..
That’s well and good. But we are *NOT* talking about a 15 year old, Pat. This is not your son. This is a 30 year old man. Why doesn’t it hold true that if they can’t get consent in one, they can be held accountable for the other side of the spectrum?
I don’t know. I didn’t have anything to do with making the laws. Consider some of the laws that still exist out there and how *insane* some of them are – this is just one more example of how contradictory it can be. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -she says, he says… yes, i know it isn’t a court of law… but if you think those words don’t carry much weight, read Ellie’s post.. while mine is in the past, Ellie’s is now.. In some ways, mine is now too.. My youngest son.. he’s bitter over what happened.. You see, I had to leave Virginia after the trial… I had to move away from them because I couldn’t afford to live up there with my wages being garnished .. I had no money to pay the attorney’s fees which ended up being nearly 4 times what was estimated.. I ended up bankrupt… But the story doesn’t end there.. As much as I would like the horror to be over.. it continues..
Did you bother to read *my* story? Pat, I understand what you are saying. I even understand where you’re coming from. I understand (intellectually) the hurt of being wrongly accused. But the fact remains, I cannot react to something that hasn’t been posted, and you are asking me to doubt another poster, just because she’s new. I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree. Dragon
Response:
Sigh. 
Yes, I understand your situation because I remember when you posted about it when it started and that doctor made me angry then and I still think it’s unfair. Has she taken it further? Is there anyone you can speak to for legal advice on how to keep her from harrassing you? Didn’t your husband’s co-worker tell her she was out of line? I guess I was thinking more of extreme cases – like of sexual abuse where the child is saying it happened. I was thinking of a person I know in "real life" who says his ex-wife convinced their little girl to go to police and say she was sexually abused. Granted, I like him a lot more than I like his ex-wife, I’ve decided I have to err on the side of believing his little girl despite what he says. I guess in your situation (which isn’t as black and white) I would err on the side of your children’s opinions (which is that they weren’t abused). There isn’t much *real* support, I admit. There’s places like the False Memory Syndrome Foundation if you children say you abused them. But that’s not for you because it’s not the same situation. I could send you a bunch of journalists from my area who believe that sexual abuse was just made up by a bunch of awful therapists – but once again it’s not your area. I don’t know what to do in your situation – except maybe see if your husband or his friends have any attorney friends who could give you some advice on how to get that doctor off your case! I’m sorry if I made things harder for you – I was thinking of something completely different than your situation but then it didn’t sound like that in my post. Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Julia…… You may choose to think I’m overreacting. I choose to think I’d rather have the children be safe than to take the risk that this guy was not safe. Well, I don’t think you’re overreactin at all. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of children’s safety than rally around perpetrators of child abuse. And if someone is wrongly accused – that SUCKS. But unless I have a bunch of evidence proving that person is wrongly accused I’d rather stick to making sure children are safe. As much as I think that mindset is correct, I happen to be one of those wrongly accused. Children should be first protected, but the question is, who are they being protected from. In my case, I am trying desperately to shield my children from the military version of CPS. They on the other hand think they need to protect my children from me. Who is right? I know that I have never, ever, hurt my kids, but a plea for help was taken as an admission of guilt. (I asked for help dealing with my kids, helping them to understand my depression) I take this person at face value, and try to believe she isn’t lying when she says her b/f admitted that he did something with a 5 yr. old girl when he was 15. I don’t know if I would do the same as she did in the same situation, but I do know that I would have questioned my kids in the same way. I would want to know. These days all a person has to do is wimper, "I was wrongly accused" and it seems like they have an enormous support system surrounding them – even for the thousands who are lying. I’d rather stick to the "believe the victim" mind set and not put he victim through hell of being "guilty of lying until proven innocent". Funny, I’ve seen little support. As far as many people around me are concerned, I am guilty until proven innocent. I would really hate to see another person go thru this. If my kids had said that I’d hurt them in any way, I would have been the first to jump up and tell them to take them away. I never want to hurt another living soul, let alone my own kids. I would rather live thru the hell of not having them than to believe they were unsafe with me. What support I’ve seen has been entirely in the ng and on irc. I truly think the whole thing with my situation sucks. I’ve lost everything over the careless, uneducated whim of a young, childless doctor who has a cause. I hope to heaven that this never has to happen to another person. And while, as I said, I take her at face value, I’ve yet to hear his side of the story. I won’t presume to judge another person based solely on what another has to say. If he needs help, I hope he gets it. If he’s never done wrong, I hope he is able to go on after such an accusation and if he truly believes that a child of 5 yrs old can give consent to sexual contact, may he rot in hell. (hope that was not confusing) Yes, I’m aware that to many that makes me "overreactive" and "a bitch" and I have "an agenda against abusers" blah blah blah … everything I’ve heard before. Bottom line is – I don’t care. I’d rather know that children can grow up safe of the trauma of sexual abuse. No, I don’t think you are overreactive or a bitch with an agenda. I agree with you, at least in that children should be able to grow up safe from the trauma of abuse. I do think judgement should be withheld. After all, the boyfriend hasn’t spoken his thoughts on this matter. No story is complete when it is one-sided. And yes – if I was wrongly accussed I’d be pissed as hell – but I would also understand if nobody would trust me around children again. That’s just my opinion. Those are just my priorities. And they’re not changing. You know, I think its admirable that you would understand if no one trusted you around kids again, but I have to tell you I could never be the same. I am more than a little on the pissed side about what is going on with my family right now, but more than that I am PISSED that I have lost all crediblity, that I am no longer welcome to volunteer in my child’s classroom, that I cannot volunteer in other places, such as the hospital and the local womens shelter, any more. These people who think they are protecting my kids have taken some of the happiest things from me. They have filled my kids with fear and distrust. They have, in the course of a couple of months, torn down what I worked so damned hard to build. I’m back to square one. Hiding in my house, afraid to ask for help. And believing that I am a really shitty parent. Help kids who are abused, but for pete’s sake, do it in an educated manner and try not to ruin lives. Ellie… Julia Dragon
Response:
Dragon.. life here is upside down at the moment.. and i don’t have much time to address this.. We are talking about a 30 year old man, who *still* thinks that a 5 year old can consent to sexual activity. Did we read this??? Well, I thought I did. She said this is what he told her.
And that was my point.. She said he said this.. He didn’t.. My gut feeling is/was she has projected much into this.. Hence my scarcastic remarks about denial/in txt… Got a question for you to ponder here.. Why is it that 15 year old is not capable (legally) of giving consent to enter into a sexual relationship with someone because they are not of an age to fully understand the reprecussions of such.. and YET can be held liable (criminally) if they are seen to be the aggressor.. Why doesn’t it hold true that if they can’t get consent in one, they can be held accountable for the other side of the spectrum? I’d be running like the wind. Me too if that were the case. I don’t remember us being told that he thinks a 5 year old can consent. Did I miss that part?
she says, he says… yes, i know it isn’t a court of law… but if you think those words don’t carry much weight, read Ellie’s post.. while mine is in the past, Ellie’s is now.. In some ways, mine is now too.. My youngest son.. he’s bitter over what happened.. You see, I had to leave Virginia after the trial… I had to move away from them because I couldn’t afford to live up there with my wages being garnished .. I had no money to pay the attorney’s fees which ended up being nearly 4 times what was estimated.. I ended up bankrupt… But the story doesn’t end there.. As much as I would like the horror to be over.. it continues.. Dragon
– pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
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AuroraeB.. My life is in an uproar at the moment and i don’t have the time at the moment to get into this discussion.. maybe in a few days when things settle down a bit.. but as you can see, there is at least two, probably more.. people in the newsgroup who have been accused of wrong doing when no wrong doing has occurred. Like Ellie, I withhold judgement on the young man.. I have not heard his side of the story. I hope and pray you never find youself in a similiar situation.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, I had been engaged to a man who I found out had been on "deferred adjudication" for indecency with a child. In my area, that can mean just about anything. I only had his word that he was framed by a jealous ex who used her children to destroy him. I was not there, I do not know what, if anything really happened. BUT, a jury was convinced that something happened, and that was enough for me to not want to take any chances with this man. That, and other issues drove me away. But, if I would have married that man, I would have always been living under the stigma of the "child molestor" label, and I would never have been able to trust him when and if we had children. For all I know, he could have been framed, I know that bitter ex’s have done far worse in an attempt to get back at their lovers. But, I was not willing to take the chance. That may not seem fair to the wrongly accused, but that is how I feel. Tracy "Minds are like Parachutes…… They only function when OPEN"
– pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
Response:
Good afternoon, y’all hi, it’s me again.. A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues. I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old!
I’m unable to see "sex play" between a fifteen year old and a five year old as being mutual exploration. My exhusband molested his sister when she was five and he was thirteen. He went on to molest his father’s girlfriend’s daughter when he was fifteen and she was nine. Then when my daughter was three she began disclosing that he’d molested her. On the flip side, my brother molested me when I was eight and he was eleven. He felt so shamed by the bizarre relationship that developed that he essentially severed almost all contact with me for many years. When I was sixteen he tried to initiate sexual contact with me again, afterwhich he again severed the relationship. Since then, he’s maintained a tremendous amount of distance in his interaction with young girls/women out of his own fear and disgust. I was his only "victim" and I’ve never felt "victimized" by him. Frightened by the weird relationship, confused and unsure…definately. But never helpless. You know, I think it’s really a good thing you broke up with him. why? Whatever else he is, whether or not he’s ever repeated the behavior (which may be lack of opportunity for all we know), he’s obviously in denial that it was wrong if he thinks a five year old could consent to sexual activity. She probably didn’t have a *clue*. this bothers me.. and kind of goes back to the 2 ppl thing in my other post.. she should leave him 1) because he might do it again.. 2) he’s waiting for another opportunity..
I do think the odd’s are with dragon on hir presumptions regarding the exboyfriend. Although, even if I knew the man personally, I doubt I’d feel qualified to offer a definitive answer about what goes on in someone elses head…goodness knows my own head gives me enough trouble. He’s in fucking denial..
Could be. *shrug* For all you know.. she could be making it all up..
Also, could be. I do tend to take people here at face value though, so this isn’t a line of thought I’d probably follow. Why assume he is guilty? Have you heard his side?
All’s I care to respond to here, is what this person has presented. As for the girl involved, it’s hard to tell. His abusing her may not be the only thing that happened to her, and in any case, something one of us would shrug off as "bad things happen, even to good people", another may think means they are the scum of the earth. And we are talking about someone who was only 5 at the time. She may have been totally confused by what happened, probably blamed herself, as the abuser obviously did. only 2 types dragon.. those who deny and those who are ready to fall down on their knees and pray for forgiveness..
I didn’t see this in dragon’s post. I saw her presenting two different scenerio’s while embracing neither over the other. I’m not sure if any of this helps, but good luck. This has to be a tough situation. even worse when people assume someone did something or will do something without any evidence to suggest that such is occurring.
We’re not dealing with evidence here, pat. Lots of other stuff, but no evidence. Take care, pat. Ruby Dragon — pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
As I would like to see your reply, please forward a copy to my e-mail.
Response:
Hi Julia…… You may choose to think I’m overreacting. I choose to think I’d rather have the children be safe than to take the risk that this guy was not safe. Well, I don’t think you’re overreactin at all. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of children’s safety than rally around perpetrators of child abuse. And if someone is wrongly accused – that SUCKS. But unless I have a bunch of evidence proving that person is wrongly accused I’d rather stick to making sure children are safe.
As much as I think that mindset is correct, I happen to be one of those wrongly accused. Children should be first protected, but the question is, who are they being protected from. In my case, I am trying desperately to shield my children from the military version of CPS. They on the other hand think they need to protect my children from me. Who is right? I know that I have never, ever, hurt my kids, but a plea for help was taken as an admission of guilt. (I asked for help dealing with my kids, helping them to understand my depression) I take this person at face value, and try to believe she isn’t lying when she says her b/f admitted that he did something with a 5 yr. old girl when he was 15. I don’t know if I would do the same as she did in the same situation, but I do know that I would have questioned my kids in the same way. I would want to know. These days all a person has to do is wimper, "I was wrongly accused" and it seems like they have an enormous support system surrounding them – even for the thousands who are lying. I’d rather stick to the "believe the victim" mind set and not put he victim through hell of being "guilty of lying until proven innocent".
Funny, I’ve seen little support. As far as many people around me are concerned, I am guilty until proven innocent. I would really hate to see another person go thru this. If my kids had said that I’d hurt them in any way, I would have been the first to jump up and tell them to take them away. I never want to hurt another living soul, let alone my own kids. I would rather live thru the hell of not having them than to believe they were unsafe with me. What support I’ve seen has been entirely in the ng and on irc. I truly think the whole thing with my situation sucks. I’ve lost everything over the careless, uneducated whim of a young, childless doctor who has a cause. I hope to heaven that this never has to happen to another person. And while, as I said, I take her at face value, I’ve yet to hear his side of the story. I won’t presume to judge another person based solely on what another has to say. If he needs help, I hope he gets it. If he’s never done wrong, I hope he is able to go on after such an accusation and if he truly believes that a child of 5 yrs old can give consent to sexual contact, may he rot in hell. (hope that was not confusing) Yes, I’m aware that to many that makes me "overreactive" and "a bitch" and I have "an agenda against abusers" blah blah blah … everything I’ve heard before. Bottom line is – I don’t care. I’d rather know that children can grow up safe of the trauma of sexual abuse.
No, I don’t think you are overreactive or a bitch with an agenda. I agree with you, at least in that children should be able to grow up safe from the trauma of abuse. I do think judgement should be withheld. After all, the boyfriend hasn’t spoken his thoughts on this matter. No story is complete when it is one-sided. And yes – if I was wrongly accussed I’d be pissed as hell – but I would also understand if nobody would trust me around children again. That’s just my opinion. Those are just my priorities. And they’re not changing.
You know, I think its admirable that you would understand if no one trusted you around kids again, but I have to tell you I could never be the same. I am more than a little on the pissed side about what is going on with my family right now, but more than that I am PISSED that I have lost all crediblity, that I am no longer welcome to volunteer in my child’s classroom, that I cannot volunteer in other places, such as the hospital and the local womens shelter, any more. These people who think they are protecting my kids have taken some of the happiest things from me. They have filled my kids with fear and distrust. They have, in the course of a couple of months, torn down what I worked so damned hard to build. I’m back to square one. Hiding in my house, afraid to ask for help. And believing that I am a really shitty parent. Help kids who are abused, but for pete’s sake, do it in an educated manner and try not to ruin lives. Ellie… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Julia Dragon
Response:
You may choose to think I’m overreacting. I choose to think I’d rather have the children be safe than to take the risk that this guy was not safe.
Well, I don’t think you’re overreactin at all. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of children’s safety than rally around perpetrators of child abuse. And if someone is wrongly accused – that SUCKS. But unless I have a bunch of evidence proving that person is wrongly accused I’d rather stick to making sure children are safe. These days all a person has to do is wimper, "I was wrongly accused" and it seems like they have an enormous support system surrounding them – even for the thousands who are lying. I’d rather stick to the "believe the victim" mind set and not put he victim through hell of being "guilty of lying until proven innocent". Yes, I’m aware that to many that makes me "overreactive" and "a bitch" and I have "an agenda against abusers" blah blah blah … everything I’ve heard before. Bottom line is – I don’t care. I’d rather know that children can grow up safe of the trauma of sexual abuse. And yes – if I was wrongly accussed I’d be pissed as hell – but I would also understand if nobody would trust me around children again. That’s just my opinion. Those are just my priorities. And they’re not changing. Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dragon
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi, it’s me again.. A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues. I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! You know, I think it’s really a good thing you broke up with him. why?
"Well, it was consensual" from a thirty year old regarding a 5 year old scars me to death. Read my other post. Whatever else he is, whether or not he’s ever repeated the behavior (which may be lack of opportunity for all we know), he’s obviously in denial that it was wrong if he thinks a five year old could consent to sexual activity. She probably didn’t have a *clue*. this bothers me.. and kind of goes back to the 2 ppl thing in my other post.. she should leave him 1) because he might do it again.. 2) he’s waiting for another opportunity..
Actually, I didn’t say that. I said I wouldn’t trust him. And it *may* have been lack of opportunity for all we know. She may know better, I don’t know. He’s in fucking denial.
*THAT* is what makes him dangerous! For all you know.. she could be making it all up..
I’m not going to question whether she’s telling the truth. If you want to, welcome to the flame wars. Why assume he is guilty? Have you heard his side?
Of course not. I have only my personal experience to go on. So do you, which is why I’m trying to hold onto my temper. As for the girl involved, it’s hard to tell. His abusing her may not be the only thing that happened to her, and in any case, something one of us would shrug off as "bad things happen, even to good people", another may think means they are the scum of the earth. And we are talking about someone who was only 5 at the time. She may have been totally confused by what happened, probably blamed herself, as the abuser obviously did. only 2 types dragon.. those who deny and those who are ready to fall down on their knees and pray for forgiveness..
Give it a rest Pat. He said himself he thought it was consensual. You really want to be he didn’t convey that to a 5 year old child? I’ve never met a 5 year old who was *that* unperceptive. They have to be trained into it. I’m not sure if any of this helps, but good luck. This has to be a tough situation. even worse when people assume someone did something or will do something without any evidence to suggest that such is occurring.
This is where I’m tempted to say something really nasty, but I’m not going to. Pat, even if he *is* a safe person, even if everything is *exactly* as you have described (and I still tend to the better children are safe and an adult gets hurt than the children get hurt), this is *STILL* going to be a tough situation for her. Even if she is an emotionally healthy person, (and I admit I didn’t pick up on the undertones, at least not like you did), this would be a tough situation. If she does have an abuse history, it’s going to be even harder. As for assuming he did something, he *DID* do something – just not with *her* kids. And I repeat: I would rather assume he’s *going* to do something (ie: not trust him) than trust him and find out too late that I was wrong. As I said in my other post, you may feel I’m overreacting. That’s your privilege. I don’t care to take chances with kids lives. Dragon
Response:
<snipped a bunch As for the girl involved, it’s hard to tell. His abusing her may not be the only thing that happened to her, and in any case, something one of us would shrug off as "bad things happen, even to good people", another may think means they are the scum of the earth. And we are talking about someone who was only 5 at the time. She may have been totally confused by what happened, probably blamed herself, as the abuser obviously did. only 2 types dragon.. those who deny and those who are ready to fall down on their knees and pray for forgiveness..
I beg to differ here. Pat, there are more than 2 types of ppl in the world. Not everyone is abused, not everyone who we believe was abused believes the same of themselves. If you were saying there are only 2 types of abusers, then I would agree. Yes, there are abusers who deny having done damage at all and yes, there are abusers who know what they did and do all they can to try and repair the damage. But I can tell you that there ARE people in the world who a.) have never been abused and b.) never abused another person. I am lucky to have such a person in my life. Two of them in fact. My husband was never abused and has never harmed another person in an abusive manner. The same goes for my best friend. even worse when people assume someone did something or will do something without any evidence to suggest that such is occurring.
Taking her at her word, the boyfriend did admit to abusing a 5 year-old girl. I would be wary of such a person. And I would want to know more, just as she seems to. Ellie… Dragon — pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
Response:
Hi there, I had been engaged to a man who I found out had been on "deferred adjudication" for indecency with a child. In my area, that can mean just about anything. I only had his word that he was framed by a jealous ex who used her children to destroy him. I was not there, I do not know what, if anything really happened. BUT, a jury was convinced that something happened, and that was enough for me to not want to take any chances with this man. That, and other issues drove me away. But, if I would have married that man, I would have always been living under the stigma of the "child molestor" label, and I would never have been able to trust him when and if we had children. For all I know, he could have been framed, I know that bitter ex’s have done far worse in an attempt to get back at their lovers. But, I was not willing to take the chance. That may not seem fair to the wrongly accused, but that is how I feel. Tracy "Minds are like Parachutes…… They only function when OPEN"
Response:
in need of treatment and those who are in denial.. Excuse me? If I believed this, I think I would just give up and die. There *are* people out there who have *not* been abused, and are not abusers. Not everybody needs treatment in order to get emotionally healthy. Some people were *taught* healthy ways to process the bad things that happen in life by parents who had that same ability. I’ve met some of them. It might be a good idea while you are processing and meeting to remember that there are people in the world who have a sense of humor.
Yeah, I guess I didn’t catch that. This post hit rather close to home for me. I must admit I wasn’t expecting something like that from Pat, but for some reason it never occurred to me that she was being sarcastic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -where do you fit in? And she wasn’t talking about herself. [clip - I happen to agree with Pat that we don't know enough about the girl involved to know why she is having problems] Cool – I do too. Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! that’s true.. but i’ll tell you what.. you know that boy i talked about up front? well, i wanted so much to have a b/f that i followed him whereever he went.. always trying to get him to dance with me.. rubbing myself up against him.. just like i saw the grown-ups do because I wanted to be grown-up.. i can.. as an adult.. see where a young teen boy could process this type of behavior as wanting something sexual.. because, in fact.. it was. however, i wasn’t old enough to know better. You know, this is all true – of a 15 year old. But we’re not talking about a 15 year old. We are talking about a 30 year old man, who *still* thinks that a 5 year old can consent to sexual activity. Did we read this???
Well, I thought I did. She said this is what he told her. I’d be running like the wind. Me too if that were the case. I don’t remember us being told that he thinks a 5 year old can consent. Did I miss that part?
Dragon
Response:
[clip] over this and other issues. My question is, how likely is it that this was the only time this had ever happened? yes
I don’t think we know enough to anser this question, really. Is this kind of thing preventable? no
Only if you want to totally isolate your kids. Is it cureable. probably not. What type of treatment should he get? there are only 2 types of people in the world.. those who admit they are in need of treatment and those who are in denial..
Excuse me? If I believed this, I think I would just give up and die. There *are* people out there who have *not* been abused, and are not abusers. Not everybody needs treatment in order to get emotionally healthy. Some people were *taught* healthy ways to process the bad things that happen in life by parents who had that same ability. I’ve met some of them. where do you fit in?
And she wasn’t talking about herself. [clip - I happen to agree with Pat that we don't know enough about the girl involved to know why she is having problems] Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! that’s true.. but i’ll tell you what.. you know that boy i talked about up front? well, i wanted so much to have a b/f that i followed him whereever he went.. always trying to get him to dance with me.. rubbing myself up against him.. just like i saw the grown-ups do because I wanted to be grown-up.. i can.. as an adult.. see where a young teen boy could process this type of behavior as wanting something sexual.. because, in fact.. it was. however, i wasn’t old enough to know better.
You know, this is all true – of a 15 year old. But we’re not talking about a 15 year old. We are talking about a 30 year old man, who *still* thinks that a 5 year old can consent to sexual activity. I’d be running like the wind. Dragon
Response:
hi, it’s me again.. A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues. I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! You know, I think it’s really a good thing you broke up with him.
why? Whatever else he is, whether or not he’s ever repeated the behavior (which may be lack of opportunity for all we know), he’s obviously in denial that it was wrong if he thinks a five year old could consent to sexual activity. She probably didn’t have a *clue*.
this bothers me.. and kind of goes back to the 2 ppl thing in my other post.. she should leave him 1) because he might do it again.. 2) he’s waiting for another opportunity.. He’s in fucking denial.. For all you know.. she could be making it all up.. Why assume he is guilty? Have you heard his side? As for the girl involved, it’s hard to tell. His abusing her may not be the only thing that happened to her, and in any case, something one of us would shrug off as "bad things happen, even to good people", another may think means they are the scum of the earth. And we are talking about someone who was only 5 at the time. She may have been totally confused by what happened, probably blamed herself, as the abuser obviously did.
only 2 types dragon.. those who deny and those who are ready to fall down on their knees and pray for forgiveness.. I’m not sure if any of this helps, but good luck. This has to be a tough situation.
even worse when people assume someone did something or will do something without any evidence to suggest that such is occurring. Dragon
– pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
Response:
in need of treatment and those who are in denial.. Excuse me? If I believed this, I think I would just give up and die. There *are* people out there who have *not* been abused, and are not abusers. Not everybody needs treatment in order to get emotionally healthy. Some people were *taught* healthy ways to process the bad things that happen in life by parents who had that same ability. I’ve met some of them.
It might be a good idea while you are processing and meeting to remember that there are people in the world who have a sense of humor. where do you fit in? And she wasn’t talking about herself. [clip - I happen to agree with Pat that we don't know enough about the girl involved to know why she is having problems]
Cool – I do too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! that’s true.. but i’ll tell you what.. you know that boy i talked about up front? well, i wanted so much to have a b/f that i followed him whereever he went.. always trying to get him to dance with me.. rubbing myself up against him.. just like i saw the grown-ups do because I wanted to be grown-up.. i can.. as an adult.. see where a young teen boy could process this type of behavior as wanting something sexual.. because, in fact.. it was. however, i wasn’t old enough to know better. You know, this is all true – of a 15 year old. But we’re not talking about a 15 year old. We are talking about a 30 year old man, who *still* thinks that a 5 year old can consent to sexual activity.
Did we read this??? I’d be running like the wind.
Me too if that were the case. I don’t remember us being told that he thinks a 5 year old can consent. Did I miss that part? Crisis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dragon
Response:
hi dragon.. [clip] over this and other issues. My question is, how likely is it that this was the only time this had ever happened? yes I don’t think we know enough to anser this question, really.
true enough.. however.. the point was he said he hadn’t.. it is possible that it was the only time it happened.. particulary if there’s no reason to assume otherwise and no other behavior which might suggest that he was.. Is this kind of thing preventable? no Only if you want to totally isolate your kids.
considering that most kids are abused by parents .. with mom’s leading the list <more than likely cuz they spend more time with kids, are more likely to be single parents, etc. dad’s next.. then other relatives… makes it almost darn near impossible to prevent it if it’s gonna happen. educating your children *without* instilling fear and shame is probably the best way, at least IMHO. Is it cureable. probably not. What type of treatment should he get? there are only 2 types of people in the world.. those who admit they are in need of treatment and those who are in denial.. Excuse me?
i was being scarcastic.. it hit me that Deb had jumped to the conclusion that he had molested her kids.. even when he said he hadn’t.. don’t know why.. quite possibly my own triggers, but i had the vision of a mad woman looking at her kids saying "are you sure??? you wouldn’t lie to me, now would you?" type of thing.. enough to scare the kids half to death. If I believed this, I think I would just give up and die. There *are* people out there who have *not* been abused, and are not abusers. Not everybody needs treatment in order to get emotionally healthy. Some people were *taught* healthy ways to process the bad things that happen in life by parents who had that same ability. I’ve met some of them.
i have too… where do you fit in? And she wasn’t talking about herself.
dragon.. she posted this same post over in AAOR.. Dave brought up a very good point.. he also sensed an overreaction on her post and feels that she may be coming from an abusive background herself… dunno.. we’ll just have to wait and see what she says. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [clip - I happen to agree with Pat that we don't know enough about the girl involved to know why she is having problems] Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! that’s true.. but i’ll tell you what.. you know that boy i talked about up front? well, i wanted so much to have a b/f that i followed him whereever he went.. always trying to get him to dance with me.. rubbing myself up against him.. just like i saw the grown-ups do because I wanted to be grown-up.. i can.. as an adult.. see where a young teen boy could process this type of behavior as wanting something sexual.. because, in fact.. it was. however, i wasn’t old enough to know better. You know, this is all true – of a 15 year old. But we’re not talking about a 15 year old. We are talking about a 30 year old man, who *still* thinks that a 5 year old can consent to sexual activity. I’d be running like the wind.
we don’t know that.. again, we don’t have enough information, nor do we have his side of the story.. we don’t know what brought this conversation between the two of them up in the first place.. he could have said something like.. i was only 15.. and didn’t know any better.. i thought it was consentual… he could also .. as a way to deal with it himself… perfer to hold onto that myth.. Dragon
– pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
Response:
A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues. I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old!
You know, I think it’s really a good thing you broke up with him. Whatever else he is, whether or not he’s ever repeated the behavior (which may be lack of opportunity for all we know), he’s obviously in denial that it was wrong if he thinks a five year old could consent to sexual activity. She probably didn’t have a *clue*. As for the girl involved, it’s hard to tell. His abusing her may not be the only thing that happened to her, and in any case, something one of us would shrug off as "bad things happen, even to good people", another may think means they are the scum of the earth. And we are talking about someone who was only 5 at the time. She may have been totally confused by what happened, probably blamed herself, as the abuser obviously did. I’m not sure if any of this helps, but good luck. This has to be a tough situation. Dragon
Response:
Wow. I don’t know what I would’ve done in your situation. I think because I’m so hyper-protective and don’t even want to take any chances with children I probably would’ve broken up with him too. From what I understand, when teenagers act out like that it’s because they were also abused. Has he gone to any therapy for this at all? I would worry if he hasn’t. Does he have sympathy for the girl who was the victim in this situation? Is he sympathetic that she is still working on the PTSD or does he think she’s overreacting or being annoying? If it’s the latter then I’d *definitely* keep him away from my children. If it’s the former, I’ve noticed that a BIG trait with repeat abusers is they have no sympathy. Everything is about them. If the victim is hurting it’s about how the perpetrator is put out – not about the pain they caused. As for why she’s still suffering if it was minor – it could seem "minor" to someone who is not her. Especially, if this guy has not had any therapy at all it could be the way he keeps from feeling so guilty and sick about what he’s done. It may have been "minor" to an outsider. But any kind of sexual abuse is traumatic to someone who experiences it. Depending on the age of the girl too it may have been horribly traumatic for her yet not sound like much – especially if you compare it to gang rape and awful things like that. But even "minor" molestation can be horribly traumatic. On a good note – I have one very close friend who molested a little girl when she was twelve years old. She has children of her own now and I totally trust her with them and I would trust her with my child. The reason is (well, one I know her extrememly well) that she is currently in therapy (has been for awhile) and she’s working on her own sexual abuse issues and the acting out issue. She’s extremely sorry and sad about how she acted out, she understands why she did it, and she feels quite a bit for the little girl who was involved (who’s now an adult). It has never happened since, and she has cried numerous times about the effects it had on the other person. I have a very strong gut feeling with her that she is safe – along with logically believing she is safe. Plus, her children are happy and well adjusted (happier than I could imagine being – sometimes I just feel so good that they have a chance to grow up "happy" – wow! What a concept!) Anyway, I don’t know what to tell you except the most important things to look for (I’ve found) are 1) does this person empathize with the victim? 2) does this person make excuses and minimize the abuse? 3) how does the person view the victim? Do they see the person as deserving of sympathy or do they see the victim as a "pain in the ass" "making too big a deal out of things"? Good luck! What a hard situation to be in! Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I don’t even exactly know where to start. I’ve been dating this man for the past year. Someone who I love very much. Just recently I found out that when he was younger (15) he molested a five year old child. He is now in his thirties. He told me that was the only time that it had happened. I have two children and when I questioned them nothing even remotely bad had happened to them. We have now broken up over this and other issues. My question is, how likely is it that this was the only time this had ever happened? Is this kind of thing preventable? Is it cureable. What type of treatment should he get? Where does why start to even go for help. A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues. I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! I really need some help in explaining this things to me and helping me find some answers and getting some closure to this situation. Deb
Response:
Hi, I don’t even exactly know where to start. I’ve been dating this man for the past year. Someone who I love very much. Just recently I found out that when he was younger (15) he molested a five year old child. He is now in his thirties. He told me that was the only time
ok.. how many jerk-ass 15 year-old-males who can’t get a cheap thrill from their g/f or even get a g/f be inclined to do this sort of thing.. not saying its right, far from it.. i had something like this happen to me when i was about the same age. i doubt seriously that the kid was a bonafide child molester.. but rather a punk who took advantage of a little girl who really, really wanted to be grown-up and have a boyfriend.. and btw.. this happened a couple of years before the "real" sexual abuse occurred.. that it had happened. I have two children and when I questioned them nothing even remotely bad had happened to them. We have now broken up
you interrogated your kids based on a confession of childhood sins? Were there any outward signs they had been molested? Were they fearful in his presence? Had the become sullen and withdrawn? Are you aware of how easy it is to convince children that something bad, evil happened to them when in fact it didnt? over this and other issues. My question is, how likely is it that this was the only time this had ever happened?
yes Is this kind of thing preventable?
no Is it cureable.
probably not. What type of treatment should he get?
there are only 2 types of people in the world.. those who admit they are in need of treatment and those who are in denial.. where do you fit in? Where does why start to even go for help. A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues.
are you qualified to make such a diagonsis? has she had other troubles in her life? does she drink or use drugs? what makes you jump to the conclusion that what your ex b/f did is causing any of the problems you feel she may have? I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled?
wow… what a jump! does she consider herself a "victim" or survivor? does she even consider what happened – if she even remembers – as abuse? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old!
that’s true.. but i’ll tell you what.. you know that boy i talked about up front? well, i wanted so much to have a b/f that i followed him whereever he went.. always trying to get him to dance with me.. rubbing myself up against him.. just like i saw the grown-ups do because I wanted to be grown-up.. i can.. as an adult.. see where a young teen boy could process this type of behavior as wanting something sexual.. because, in fact.. it was. however, i wasn’t old enough to know better. I really need some help in explaining this things to me and helping me find some answers and getting some closure to this situation.
Deb.. I’m sorry to be coming at you with a ton of bricks, but I’ve seen too many different sides to this issue, having been sexually abused as a child.. to being accused myself by the system gone mad.. i’ve had my own children subjected to interrogation by cps and other mental health authorities to get them to remember abuse they were so sure occurred. Deb
– pat .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
Response:
Hi, I don’t even exactly know where to start. I’ve been dating this man for the past year. Someone who I love very much. Just recently I found out that when he was younger (15) he molested a five year old child. He is now in his thirties. He told me that was the only time that it had happened. I have two children and when I questioned them nothing even remotely bad had happened to them. We have now broken up over this and other issues. My question is, how likely is it that this was the only time this had ever happened? Is this kind of thing preventable? Is it cureable. What type of treatment should he get? Where does why start to even go for help. A few things bother me about his story. Supposedly the molestation was real minor. (if you can call it that) but the child is now in her twenties and is having some post traumatic issues. I know different people react to things differently but if the abuse was so minor than why is the victim still deeply troubled? Another thing he told me as a way of excusing his behavior…"Well, it was conseual" excuse me…but you are talking about a five year old! I really need some help in explaining this things to me and helping me find some answers and getting some closure to this situation. Deb
Response:
I’m very sorry you are going through this . While your Dad may need to get a second job, he also needs to talke responsibility in this. It is not something that should be the responsibility of the children to solve . Is there someone who you can speak with that can also speak with your father to assure him that the situation is grave and he needs to take control of the situation? Panther I wanted to ask for some advice. I am a 16 year old girl and my mom is
very sick with bad mental health problems. We all try to do our best for her but she ignores us most of the time except when she’s telling us we’re sicker than she is. One time she put my photograph online and told people I was sick in the
head, but I’m not and the psychiatrist she made me see said so too and he said she had something called Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. She takes a lot of pills and tries to make us take pills too but we only
pretend to take them because they made us feel sick. It got so bad a while back that she was taken to a mental hospital and
kept there for a while, but now she’s back home and tells people that I was the one who put her in there. My step dad isn’t home much because he had to get a second job because mom
says she’s too sick to work and that he needs to earn more money. I used to be able to talk to my aunt but my mom won’t let us see her any
more because they had an argument when my aunt said my mom should be taking better care of us. Mom said if we tried to talk to my aunt she would hurt my aunt. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to leave home but I’m scared she will hurt my younger brother and sister if I go.
Response:
Are you saying that this situation is an impossibility? It rings true with me and I’ll bet a lot of other teenagers in similar situations. Perhaps we should leave both marks posts and Azures reply out of this unless you want to contribute to that thread. Personally I don’t think that is in either mark’s or azure’s best interests if you care about either of them.. Panther
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: Yes This is *almost as fucked up and full of bullshit as Azure’s parody post of Mark’s post. Imho, and ymmv, and all that, of course. I wanted to ask for some advice. I am a 16 year old girl and my mom is very sick with bad mental health problems. We all try to do our best for her but she ignores us most of the time except when she’s telling us we’re sicker than she is. One time she put my photograph online and told people I was sick in the head, but I’m not and the psychiatrist she made me see said so too and he said she had something called Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. She takes a lot of pills and tries to make us take pills too but we only pretend to take them because they made us feel sick. It got so bad a while back that she was taken to a mental hospital and kept there for a while, but now she’s back home and tells people that I was the one who put her in there. My step dad isn’t home much because he had to get a second job because mom says she’s too sick to work and that he needs to earn more money. I used to be able to talk to my aunt but my mom won’t let us see her any more because they had an argument when my aunt said my mom should be taking better care of us. Mom said if we tried to talk to my aunt she would hurt my aunt. I want to leave home but I’m scared she will hurt my younger brother and sister if I go. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi
Response:
Well DD … you got some problems here … huh. Think about using a videotape to document your mom’s behaviour. And put that on the internet with video streaming … her handing out the pills and whiping the ‘we’ to take the pills; and show the ‘we’ pretending to take the pills. It could be that your whole family is genetically sick … this might mean … including you and who ever ‘we’ is that has to take the pills and stuff. So you going to Alanon for Teens would be helpful. Your highschool counselor will help. In as much as you dont take pills with the school nurse … now do you. Your mom and dad and step dad might go to their death beds with this stuff and you might be all right – just have to get therapy to cry out the bitter salty tears to get your head on straight. This is why dysfunctional people try to twist lies and tell you the other person .. like the Democrats are doing Enron accounting and they are not … its the psychopaths that are doing it. There is a learning curve – its flat at first – but it picks up after awhile. sumbuddie luvs ya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wanted to ask for some advice. I am a 16 year old girl and my mom is very sick with bad mental health problems. We all try to do our best for her but she ignores us most of the time except when she’s telling us we’re sicker than she is. One time she put my photograph online and told people I was sick in the head, but I’m not and the psychiatrist she made me see said so too and he said she had something called Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. She takes a lot of pills and tries to make us take pills too but we only pretend to take them because they made us feel sick. It got so bad a while back that she was taken to a mental hospital and kept there for a while, but now she’s back home and tells people that I was the one who put her in there. My step dad isn’t home much because he had to get a second job because mom says she’s too sick to work and that he needs to earn more money. I used to be able to talk to my aunt but my mom won’t let us see her any more because they had an argument when my aunt said my mom should be taking better care of us. Mom said if we tried to talk to my aunt she would hurt my aunt. I want to leave home but I’m scared she will hurt my younger brother and sister if I go.
Response:
Next time mom takes her to a shrink (or wants to) she needs to go, and then tell this to the shrink. He may be the best one to advice her or help direct her what to do. (sorry I’, piggybacking, I don’t see the original post so I can’t reply directly.)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m very sorry you are going through this . While your Dad may need to get a second job, he also needs to talke responsibility in this. It is not something that should be the responsibility of the children to solve . Is there someone who you can speak with that can also speak with your father to assure him that the situation is grave and he needs to take control of the situation? Panther I wanted to ask for some advice. I am a 16 year old girl and my mom is very sick with bad mental health problems. We all try to do our best for her but she ignores us most of the time except when she’s telling us we’re sicker than she is. One time she put my photograph online and told people I was sick in the head, but I’m not and the psychiatrist she made me see said so too and he said she had something called Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. She takes a lot of pills and tries to make us take pills too but we only pretend to take them because they made us feel sick. It got so bad a while back that she was taken to a mental hospital and kept there for a while, but now she’s back home and tells people that I was the one who put her in there. My step dad isn’t home much because he had to get a second job because mom says she’s too sick to work and that he needs to earn more money. I used to be able to talk to my aunt but my mom won’t let us see her any more because they had an argument when my aunt said my mom should be taking better care of us. Mom said if we tried to talk to my aunt she would hurt my aunt. I want to leave home but I’m scared she will hurt my younger brother and sister if I go.
Response:
call the cops and tell them what’s happening, tell a school counselor, tell a teacher…tell.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wanted to ask for some advice. I am a 16 year old girl and my mom is very sick with bad mental health problems. We all try to do our best for her but she ignores us most of the time except when she’s telling us we’re sicker than she is. One time she put my photograph online and told people I was sick in the head, but I’m not and the psychiatrist she made me see said so too and he said she had something called Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. She takes a lot of pills and tries to make us take pills too but we only pretend to take them because they made us feel sick. It got so bad a while back that she was taken to a mental hospital and kept there for a while, but now she’s back home and tells people that I was the one who put her in there. My step dad isn’t home much because he had to get a second job because mom says she’s too sick to work and that he needs to earn more money. I used to be able to talk to my aunt but my mom won’t let us see her any more because they had an argument when my aunt said my mom should be taking better care of us. Mom said if we tried to talk to my aunt she would hurt my aunt. I want to leave home but I’m scared she will hurt my younger brother and sister if I go.
Response:
hmmm… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wanted to ask for some advice. I am a 16 year old girl and my mom is very sick with bad mental health problems. We all try to do our best for her but she ignores us most of the time except when she’s telling us we’re sicker than she is. One time she put my photograph online and told people I was sick in the head, but I’m not and the psychiatrist she made me see said so too and he said she had something called Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. She takes a lot of pills and tries to make us take pills too but we only pretend to take them because they made us feel sick. It got so bad a while back that she was taken to a mental hospital and kept there for a while, but now she’s back home and tells people that I was the one who put her in there. My step dad isn’t home much because he had to get a second job because mom says she’s too sick to work and that he needs to earn more money. I used to be able to talk to my aunt but my mom won’t let us see her any more because they had an argument when my aunt said my mom should be taking better care of us. Mom said if we tried to talk to my aunt she would hurt my aunt. I want to leave home but I’m scared she will hurt my younger brother and sister if I go.
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