Question:
Hi, Sometimes it is forgotten that therapists often chose their profession to compensate for their own childhood experiences. Despite whatever "good work" they do this does mean that should a client wish to excede the personal limitations of the therapist then it can be devasting to discover that the therapist reacts in a similar manner to those who created the clients "problem". This is always a good question to ask a therapist: "Can trauma be completely reversed and, if so, why?". The answer should make sense but, more importantly, be capable of application in moments of personal crisis. Bye, Jorola http://members.aol.com/jorolat Search for an Internal Evolutionary Mechanism How Psychology colours perception of Natural Realities Trauma/Bullying/Social Violence etc.
Response:
I am sorry that you have not had good luck with therapist. I do hate to think the reason is because it was a state facility. I know many clients who feel they have received excellent care instate facilities. I do agree with you in that you must find a therapist that you are compatible with. Many are confrontational, and for many people, they need this. Their thoughts and perception MUST be challenged. Irrational thinking, which we all experience, and spin out of control if the is not someone – friend, therapist, anyone – to help us put reality into perspective. morceaux <damorce…@mailhot.com> wrote in article <QwED2.778$xM2….@news6.ispnews.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hoy People, > In a PS, Emma said… > >I also hope some other list members will join this discussion. > >It would be good if we can get a variety of viewpoints and > >experiences. > Okay. You’re right. I should warn though that the things I’m > going to talk about might be triggery to people who suffered > abuse as children or have children that have been abused. Also, > it’ll be long, because I’ve left the previous posts largely > intact and I tend to be verbose. > Mairtin said… > >>Don’t take everything that therapists tell you as gospel. > >>If you don’t understand or agree with them, then question > >>what they are saying or doing. Remember they are there for > >>you not the other way around. > And Emma responded… > >I just wanted to say ‘amen’ to all of this. My current > >therapist is my fifth. I don’t feel like the first four were > >a waste, though. One was probably harmful, but I got away > >from her quickly and even learned something about the > >importance of not surrendering control of the sessions. My > >experiences with each of the remaining three helped me to > >understand what I needed in a therapist and made me a better > ’shopper’. I also learned the importance of a good fit. One > >of the therapists was recommended by a friend who had good > >results with her, but she wasn’t right for me. > Okie…in my experience… > Between the years I was 14 years old to 21 years old, I was > involved in many hospitilizations and received lots of > ‘treatment’. Looking back at the ‘therapy’ I received during > those years is almost a horror show. I cannot imagine why > I preservered in seeking therapy. > We were largely institutionalized in state-funded psychiatric > hospitals during those years. We were diagnosed many times by > many different doctors. Our diagnosis’ included Schizophrenia > Without Paranoia, Paranoid Schizophrenia, Borderline Personality > Disorder (a diagnosis that at least during those years could be > translated to ‘impossible liar with no hope of recovery’), > Hysterical Personality Disorder… ummm.. I don’t even remember > what else. Sheesh. It was ridiculous. We *were* diagnosed > MPD during that period, around 1979, but even today, when I > recognize that the diagnosis was correct, I feel that the > Doctors that made that diagnosis made it with their own > interests at heart, and not necessarily because they really > believed we had it. > But the ongoing theme in all these stupid and bullheaded and > *wrong* diagnosis’ was that the things we were saying were not > true. Throughout all those years of Institutionalization and > drugs and multiple ‘professionals,’ we were apparently NEVER > believed when we said that anyplace was better than the house > of our sperm donor, that we were constantly being battered and > raped there. > When we were 21 I was molested by a Social Worker in the Psych > Hospital I was in. I had signed myself in that time, and it’s > a good thing I had. If I’d been court-ordered there, I would > have had no recourse to protect myself. I was pregnant at the > time and since I’m the ‘Mom’ I was ‘out’ frequently. This > Social Worker took it upon himself to perform a GYN exam to > confirm my pregnancy. When I protested, he told me that if I > didn’t want to be transfered to the violent ward, I had best > submit. > I reported the incident to the Director of the Hospital, and > she told me it would be ‘investigated.’ The next morning, the > Social Worker who had assaulted me was sitting next to the > Doctor in the morning group where patients made requests for > certain privileges. I asked to be allowed to wear street > clothes and to be moved to the unlocked ICU ward. This was a > standard request that was extremely unlikely to be denied > since I had signed myself into the hospital three days before > and hadn’t harmed myself or anyone else, nor threatened to do > so on any level. The psychiatrist started to grant the request > and the Social Worker interrupted him and said that he felt I > wasn’t ’safe’ enough to be granted these requests and that he > thought I should remain in the locked ward in pajamas; the > locked ward being his domain, since he worked in that ward 8 > hours a day while the Doctor worked in it no more than 2 hours > a day. The Psychiatrist agreed to his reccomendation. I > immediately requested the form to sign out AMA (against medical > advice). The Social Worker tried to talk the Doctor into > signing the paperwork to have me involuntarily committed for > 3 days and lost that argument. I left. Four years later that > Social Worker was fired in disgrace for getting a 14 year-old > patient pregnant while she was hospitalized, and subsequently > arrested and convicted of sexual assault. > My pregnancy didn’t survive for reasons that have nothing to do > with the topic of this post. I was careful to avoid psychiatric > hospitilization, and I mostly avoided any therepeutic treatment. > Instead, I self-medicated and got lucky enough to bottom out in > addiction and found a 12-step program, where I started the > process of getting clean and quickly got 13-stepped into another > pregnancy. > Those two circumstances probably saved our lives. I was clean > and I was motivated. I wanted my baby desperately and I wasn’t > so fucked up on drugs and alcohol that I couldn’t make any sort > of sane decisions. And I knew that I needed therapy. I knew, > because I’d been the parent to my younger siblings in my own > childhood, for as far back as I could remember, and I had been > a horribly abusive ‘Mom’ to them. I knew that I had no chance > of raising my baby without abusing him. I was absolutely sure > that I would be a physically abusive mother, and I was terrified > I might be a sexually abusive mother. And I didn’t want to be > either. I wanted to give my child a chance to be a whole person. > I went shopping. > I literally interviewed therapists. I didn’t give a shit what > their degree was. I knew that there were Palm Readers who did > better therapy than some Psychiatrists, and while I wasn’t willing > to go to a Psychic, I was certainly willing to interview people > who had anything from a 2-year degree in Social Work to fully > qualified Psychiatrists. All I wanted was a match that I found > palatable and who would *believe* me. > I think I interviewed 9 or 10 before I found one that I could > work with. The way that I did it was I made an appointment and > I showed up and I said, "I have a history of being physically and > sexually abused as a child for as far back as my memory goes. I > am pregnant. I largely raised my younger siblings and I was > terribly physically abusive to them and on rare occasions, did > things that could be considered sexual abuse. I am afraid for my > baby. I need therapy to make sure I can be a decent mother and > never do the things to him that were done to me and that I did to > my younger siblings." > All of them said things to me like, "Women don’t sexually abuse. > That’s not an issue at all and you don’t need to worry about it. > And since you are clearly concerned about the tendency to abuse > children in other ways, you probably will never do that." > Bunch of fucking IDIOTS. Oh man, it pisses me off. Those fucking > IDIOTS were endangering the life of my CHILD because they didn’t > fucking BELIEVE me. > Then I got an appointment with this teeny little new yorker-type > social worker. I was pretty burned out by then. I was almost > 6 months pregnant and I was getting really scared that I wasn’t > going to find someone in time. I was seriously considering > placing my baby for adoption because I didn’t think I was going > to be able to find someone to help me before he would be in > danger. > I gave my spiel. She listened to me without interrupting me. > Then she said, "Well. It looks to me like we have a lot of work > to do in a very short period of time." > Oh man, I’m in tears remembering this. I miss her so much. She > died four years later. But that woman, whose degree didn’t give > her the right to diagnose me, and barely gave her the right to > treat me, saved my life and my child’s life. I don’t have any > doubts about that at all. We didn’t always get along. We fought > bitter battles a few times. But she never, ever gave me the > impression at any time that she thought I was lying on any level. > She read all my former records and then she told me, "This is > rubbish. You’ve been treated by the biggest croud of utter > incompentents I’ve ever seen gathered in a group in my life. > 90% of what they’ve written here is absolute bullshit and > the few things I’d agree with I suspect they hit on by accident. > You have PTSD and you’re dissociative. Those are the only > labels you’ll ever get from me, because those are the only > labels that fit you at all. You are not hopeless. You can be > a good mother to your baby. I believe that the things you tell > me are true and we’ll work through those things no matter how > long it takes. And in the mean time, we will work on teaching > you how to protect your baby from yourself and others, and how > to be a mother
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Response:
>I do hate to >think the reason is because it was a state facility. I know many clients >who feel they have received excellent care instate facilities.
GET A CLUE!! Get the hell out of here – this is a support group for those suffering from PTSD – not those OBSERVING PTSD. Stepen???? Stephanie??? What do you guys think??? Lu
Response:
LuanneP wrote: > GET A CLUE!! Get the hell out of here – this is a support group for those > suffering from PTSD – not those OBSERVING PTSD.
We are here to support those who have ptsd. I refuse to believe however that just because the student has rubbed people up the wrong way slightly (!) that he or she is all that bad. There is some good in everyone, and you can’t blame students for trying to use all the resources they can lay their hands on. I do sympathise with the student that the best people to help them with the assignment – be that guinea pig farming… – are those who have been involved in some way with someone who has ptsd. At the same time I agree that the thought of baring my inner feelings to an untrained person right now freaks me. All I can say to any student considering asking one of us to help him or her is, I don’t blame you for trying to use all the resources you can. I know what wanting to do well at your degree is like, but this support group is not the best place to start as many of us are hurting, many of us feel it would be traumatising to talk to someone who is not a qualified professional. It’s nothing personal, it’s just we need support, we need help, and well-meaning students with all the best intentions in the whole world cannot necessarily give us the kind of support and help we need right now. Perhaps to find out about ptsd, students might consider venturing towards asking those who have been treating people who have ptsd, not those who are being treated, since I do agree that the best people to talk to about it are those who have been "around" ptsd in some way. Since many sufferers don’t appear to be jumping at the chance to talk to someone about their experiences, perhaps talking to someone in the counselling profession who has had experience of working with people with ptsd may be the next best thing, although of course they cannot give out details on every individual as this breaches confidentiality. > Stepen???? Stephanie??? What do you guys think???
I think this kind of guess, although I am inclined sometimes too to prejudge people on past experiences and it seems only natural to do so in our case, is unfair on the person. Give them a small chance first and see whether in a while you still reach the same conclusion. Sally xxxxx
Response:
Hi Morceaux – and everyone else who stumbles across this message! I guess I am fortunate enough in that through writing to that agony aunt on the internet what seems like ages ago now, but what must only have been a month or so, not really knowing what was wrong with me, she came back with a possible diagnosis but encouraged me to check it out for myself. I then went off to the counsellor telling her I think I know what is wrong with me, giving her a copy of the two web diagnosis pages I checked out. So that forced her to consider that as an immediate possibility, something which was right there in front of her, that she would have been a fool to ignore. That said, in the session we had so far, she never actually straight out agreed that that was the problem, she just seemed to digest what the info in front of her was saying and think about it. > I hire my doctors and therapists. I’m their employer. I hire > them for their ability to do the job. If I feel that they aren’t > doing the job right, I have the right to fire them.
That’s a really good way of putting it. Using the same theory I found that I was talking to my friends and when they hurt me because of the things I said then I fired them too. But the majority resigned within weeks of starting the job. This time round, we’re running on employment on a casual basis, either one of us has the right to break the contract at any time with some notice… I’ve found people who want to listen again and this time I think they will stick with it. That’s friends though. Counsellors? This one is still on her month’s trial, I’m not expecting anything spectacular from her performance since she has just started her job. Can’t expect someone who has only just started to know what they are doing straight off, now, can I? Sally xxxxx
Response:
Hi all, I detect another troll…..sheeesh….we’re still in recovery from the last one. I don’t have the patience to enter another flame war…if she posts again I’m going to her isp. Mairtin, morceaux, Emma, Lu, and all…you are the best. Love you all, Scott — *********************************************************************** To reply: Remove .nospam from the above. Scott C. @–>–>—
Response:
>I detect another troll…..sheeesh….we’re still in recovery from >the last one. I
Yeah, and after we run Kara’s ass out of here, another stupid idiot will show up again sooner or later. Yep, it took me having to post to one of Stephanie’s other lists to get her butt out of here. Their response to Stephanie posting on OUR list? "Who left the gate open??" Maybe Stephanie and Kara can get together and start a Demographic/Know-it-all About PTSD Newsgroup. Stephanie can talk, and Kara can madly take notes!! Lu
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