Question:
Things have not been going so well for me since I have been diagnose with PTSD. I noticed that lot of the people is this ng suffer from PTSD because of sexual assault. Anyone else like me suffer from PTSD because of serving with the military? Ever since my injuries and my near death accident, I feel as though I have been cast aside like a broken toy. It’s taken forever to see any type of counselor for therapy. By the time I see someone I am so fed up and frustrated that I feel like screaming. Plus I think that med are not helping much. I still feel very depress and can’t sleep most nights. This leaves me pretty irritable and very moody. I feel like I am on a roller coaster and the ride won’t stop. This ng is the only way I have to vent and I feel as though you guys share the same kind of dilemma with your disorders. Plse feel free to share any insights you may have. Take care and be good to yourself, Sylvie
Response:
It pisses me off the way VA does. I always dreaded taking a patient to one. Getting treatment for our patient was not guarenteed. They don’t put you on a regular schedule to see a counselor? What meds have they given you to help you sleep? If nothing, someone needs to shake their tree. They are treating the depression and insomnia, aren’t they? I don’t understand how the VA works. Luanne and La Chech can probably be some help to you. "The hottest place in hell is reserved for those who, in a time of moral crisis, remain neutral." Dante – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sylvie wrote: > Things have not been going so well for me since I have been diagnose > with PTSD. I noticed that lot of the people is this ng suffer from PTSD > because of sexual assault. Anyone else like me suffer from PTSD because of > serving with the military? > Ever since my injuries and my near death accident, I feel as though I > have been cast aside like a broken toy. It’s taken forever to see any type > of counselor for therapy. By the time I see someone I am so fed up and > frustrated that I feel like screaming. > Plus I think that med are not helping much. I still feel very depress > and can’t sleep most nights. This leaves me pretty irritable and very > moody. I feel like I am on a roller coaster and the ride won’t stop. This > ng is the only way I have to vent and I feel as though you guys share the > same kind of dilemma with your disorders. > Plse feel free to share any insights you may have. > Take care and be good to yourself, > Sylvie
Response:
The VA must be for the American military? I am in the Canadian military and it’s not any better at times. The med that my pdoc has prescribed to me are: Effexor and Tryptan. But so far the sleeping med is giving me very weird feelings. I don’t want to take chemical sleeping pills because I was afraid that I might use them to OD on. But the fact is I still need something to ensure that I get some rest so I am not so stress and tense (might as well add bitchy) day in and day out. My pdoc only seems me once every 3 weeks. I have to resort in going to see the base social worker and the padre if I want additional help. The system really sucks big time. But thanks for you input Dante Take care and be good to yourself, Sylvie
Response:
Hi Luanne! > Come on, Nancy…give us some of YOUR stories…you were in before me,
correct? I was on active duty from August 1965 until April 1969. I served in Ft. McClellan, AL; Ft. Gordon, GA; USARYS and the 2nd Log Cmd in Okinawa. I did TDY at Ft. Ben Harrison, IN. I’ve got to tell you that I can remember almost nothing about my experiences. Both personally and professionally, I was betrayed by the differences between my training and my day-to-day reality. One little story: I met a guy while writing a story for the Info Office. He was single. We went out once. It was non-eventful. About 2 Sunday’s later I got a phone call at home at about 0530 from a ranting woman two states away. She spent a lot of money calling me names and accusing me of trying to break up her marriage. She was going to come to my house with her shotgun. Etc. Turns out she had found my telephone number in his wallet while he was at home for the weekend. I had one telephone call with him after that Sunday. I wanted to know if she knew my home address, and was assured that she did not. I still looked over my shoulder more than once when I went home at night. Seems to me that this stuff can happen to civilians too. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
>So much for thou shalt not commit adultery.
What???? I would say that 99% of all the married men I knew in Germany who didn’t have their wives stationed overseas also was a cheater. I knew MANY men who had various affairs, some even WITH wives in Germany. I know – I was approached by a few of them myself…damn pigs. Best, Luanne
Response:
Hi Lesleyanne! I am so sorry. It’s very difficult to understand that rape is not personal, when it is my body involved. I wonder why some men need to rape a woman in order to get past their own fears. Oh well, the betrayal is so haunting … and many men don’t seem to understand. I’m glad that they will have to account for their own actions on the ‘other side’. I’m also glad that I’m not in charge of their punishment on ‘this side’. I’d be so into revenge that I’d make myself sicker, and let the betrayer steal the rest of my life! Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But one of your first points struck a nerve with me. In Canada, women > are permitted in combat and in 93 I was with an armoured unit when we > went to Bosnia – near Sarajevo while the shooting was still in full gear > in 93. > I can’t possibly describe the feeling of betrayal when I was assaulted > by a fellow soldier. Who do you trust after that? It took five years > before somebody finally recognized that being assaulted by a fellow > soldier in a theatre of war was not the same as it would be if it had > occurred in garrison. I had nowhere to go. I was trapped by the serbs > on one side and my own army on the other. > I spent many years serving side by side with men and for the most part > they were good people. It just takes one to ruin a life.
Response:
Sylvie, The the url I posted, Military Woman, also covers the Canadian military women as well. It might be worth it to check it out. http://www.militarywoman.org/ Deeanna
Response:
Kipco, I wasn’t able to read the whole thread…..that’s one of my big problems. But one of your first points struck a nerve with me. In Canada, women are permitted in combat and in 93 I was with an armoured unit when we went to Bosnia – near Sarajevo while the shooting was still in full gear in 93. I can’t possibly describe the feeling of betrayal when I was assaulted by a fellow soldier. Who do you trust after that? It took five years before somebody finally recognized that being assaulted by a fellow soldier in a theatre of war was not the same as it would be if it had occurred in garrison. I had nowhere to go. I was trapped by the serbs on one side and my own army on the other. I spent many years serving side by side with men and for the most part they were good people. It just takes one to ruin a life. Lesleyanne Visit the one and only chech at her new and improved homepage @ http://home.thezone.net/~chech Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
>I didn’t want to go to that damn ship. I didn’t want >to hear how many times some guy/girl got laid and how he/she screamed, etc., >etc.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I had a roommate over in Germany that was a bed-wetter. Hell, she should not have EVEN been allowed to join, but although everybody in the company knew about it, nothing was done about it, in fact, she was allowed to ‘re-up.’ (Reenlist). She was also a very promiscuous gal. The guys all referred to her as "Manhole" and made fun of her and other women at every opportunity. Makes me sick now. Just was too loaded then, and numbed myself out. Best, Luanne
Response:
>The only thing that has changed is that >the creeps aren’t as overt as they were years ago.
Come on, Nancy…give us some of YOUR stories…you were in before me, correct? Deanna – Nancy has had a lot of experience with women’s problems in the military too. I remember a gal who had a saying while I was in the Army…..boy, it sure was fitting: "I’ll never be happy, I’ll never be free – Till I fucked the Army, like Army fucked me." So damned true. Best, Luanne
Response:
>I think women are still viewed as either sluts or lesbians, although, again >it is not as overt as it used to be.
I had men as WELL as women hit on me. I lead a somewhat sheltered life before I entered the military, and BOY, what a rude awakening I got! Best, Luanne
Response:
Luanne, What a fitting saying. You could basically replace the Army with any other service and it would hold true. Below is a url for the Military Woman home page. It is not government owned or sponsored at all. There are some really interesting stories on this site from women about why they’ve stayed and why they leave. When I have retired I will certainly put my story up there. There are also some very disturbing stories from women who were in during the 60’s and the madness they had to put up with. It’s so sad they way we have been/still are being treated. http://www.militarywoman.org/ God Bless! Deeanna
Response:
Luanne, I guess it just wasn’t safe for anyone during the time you were in, was it? When I joined the Navy at the tender age of 19, I thought I was a woman of the world because I had been exposed to life at a very early age, and yet I was so naive. To this day, I cringe when I hear about things going on that are immoral and/or unethical. Just when I think I have heard it all, I hear more stuff that makes me want to puke my guts. This, amongst many others, was one of the reasons I didn’t want to go to that damn ship. I didn’t want to hear how many times some guy/girl got laid and how he/she screamed, etc., etc. That seems to be the kind of talk that goes on these days. The more I know, the less respect I have for our "leaders"! The less I know, the better off I am. The Navy, as do the other services, have their little unwritten golden rule; What happens on deployment stays on deployment. This little unwritten golden rule basically gives all persons permission to behave in an immoral and disgusting way without any sort of repercussions. So much for thou shalt not commit adultery. I didn’t learn this rule until 1991 when I was stationed at my first squadron. I could not believe what was going on there. Up until that point, I had lead a pretty sheltered life in the Navy, believe it or not.
Response:
Sylvie, I know this may sound terrible, but I would rather the unethical, immoral males think of me as a hardass bitch lesbo than some insignificant, stupid, pretty face (their thinking, not mine) that they can grab at, ask out, rape, etc. Bottom line for me is I don’t care what they think, but if I EVER heard of any of the creeps talking crap about me and spreading rumors, I’d be in their faces in two seconds ready to attack their nasty little selves. I know that sounds rather harsh, but the lack of respect for me has ended. I just wish other women would be direct with these stupid little nitwits when they start running their stupid mouths. :^) >What I can not accept is when you fall prey to a trauma and they cast > you a side like a broken toy. That they refuse to treat you or believe that > you might have a legitimate reason for being the way you are.
Yep, I know this all too well. Though I have not yet spoken to anyone in my immediate chain about my situation, I get this distinct feeling that they don’t want a "sicko" working in their division which leads me to believe that they are going to do everything possible to get me out of here. Woe be unto them if they do. I have not been refused treatment, but I get the feeling that some of these buttheads here don’t believe what happened to me. That’s their problem, not mine. They weren’t there; I was. Fortunately, none of them have the gonads to say that to my face. However, if they do, again, woe be unto them. Deeanna
Response:
>What I can not accept is when you fall prey to a trauma and they cast >you a side like a broken toy. That they refuse to treat you or believe that >you might have a legitimate reason for being the way you are
Sylvie: This is EXACTLY what happened to me. After 5 suicide attempts, I was scorned and treated like a "screw up." The only ‘professional help’ that the military ever tried to give me was to see a drug/alcohol counselor who had a hangover (he complained openly about this) during most of our sessions. <sigh> I had to FIGHT to get an honorable discharge, and looking back, it makes me more angry that they couldn’t see that I was in a lot of pain, and instead, chose to brand me a ‘fuck up.’ Still pisses me off to this day. Best, Luanne
Response:
Luanne, You hit the nail right on the head when you said "things haven’t changed a DAMN bit since I myself was in the military 20 years ago." The only thing that has changed is that the creeps aren’t as overt as they were years ago. For example, in 1988 I had an E7 stick his hand in my shirt and grab my breast. I had an E5 tell me that "all women liked to be treated like prostitutes and all prostitutes liked to be treated like women". Let me just add that both of these creeps were dirtbags with a capital D! I haven’t had that kind of treatment since, but I also make sure I don’t put myself in situations where that could happen, i:e, being alone with military men who give me the creeps. I have been fortunate in that I’ve never had anyone say to me if you do this for me then I’ll enhance your career, although I am fully aware that it was like that years ago as you had mentioned. I would go out on a limb and say that there are some old goats out there who have been in for 25 or more years who still try that crap on young women though. A leopard doesn’t change his spots overnight, particularly if he’s been wearing them his whole life. :^) I think women are still viewed as either sluts or lesbians, although, again it is not as overt as it used to be. Sadly, women who are making money on the side in remote areas such as Diego Garcia, Korea, and on board ships sure as hell don’t make it easy for those of us who aren’t like them. It is beyond me why military men think they are such romeos. Most are creeps, to say the least. I am quite fortunate now because I finally work with 3 Army Majors who are just too good to be true. I thought that about some others, but they have since shown their true colors and they are not supporting me in my situation. What is worse is that these individuals are in my immediate chain of command and they can strongly recommend to the commander that I be sent away to some damn hospital for treatment vice staying here with my hubby and my circle of friends. If they send me to a Navy hospital for treatment, it will be both theirs and mine undoing. I don’t trust most Navy males these days, and if I have to sit and talk to one about some of my most personal thoughts and experiences, then I will never get well because I won’t tell him a damn thing. I lucked out with my first mental health doc who happened to be a Navy LCDR; he was an angel sent by God. I don’t know if I can get that lucky again. Last year I had an opportunity to get out of the Navy, but my then female commander convinced me to stay in because the military needed people like me (her words). Reluctanly, I decided to stay. Now, I am damn glad I stayed because I am going to make life hell for a few people my last three years. I am tired of the rapes/sexual assaults/harassment and all the other stuff women have to endure in order to survive the military. It needs to be brought out in the open once and for all. I don’t believe one word the military is feeding the media that we are one big happy family. It just isn’t true! I have worked hard and suffered more than my fair share of pain to let my little bit of retirement be lost. Hell hath no fury that of a woman with almost 17 years in the military! :^) Thanks for your compassion Luanne. Deeanna
Response:
> You know what? I can see that things haven’t changed a DAMN bit since I myself > was in the military 20 years ago. Women were harrassed even WORSE then, and I > am certain that Nancy has a few stories herself as she was in before I was.
Hi ladies! I think that what ‘hit’ me after my assault was that I had thought the military would be a ’safe’ place. Other than being in combat (which wasn’t ‘allowed in the late 1960s for women in the US Army), the ’safe’ place included that we were supposed to be on the same team, men and women, straight and gay, colors of the rainbow, etc. We were supposed to have equal opportunity and equal protections. Well, like other institutions, the military is unable to fulfill its promises, at times. Those of us with PTSD seem to have been part of the ‘at times’. I had the right to go to the JAG office and press charges; I existed in the military which was already in turmoil and made the unHoly decision to not go to the local JAG office; my BIG mistake. Because the post or fort or duty station is really so small in terms of population, there is a really BIG problem with two alternatives: defending myself or acting like I’m part of a real team. I got a distorted thought pattern going that ‘not defending myself’ was the way to be part of the team. I ended up finding a male defender in each unit in order for me to feel safe. This was not a good solution for me. I ended up with more distorted thinking. 
After treatment at the local VA, I am starting to learn that I am responsible for my own safety. That I, and only I, can keep protesting to ‘the system’ until I get either ‘releif’ or help. That I am not responsible for any other military woman’s problems or challenges and there is no shame in my being a straight woman in a mixed unit and a traditional woman around sexually-agressive women. I used to take this shame to my heart, especially when I found out that my roommate in the 1960s was earning money on the side. In civilian life, where there is a need to fight for profits every month, it is easier to be part of a team, or, if they won’t let me on the team, to find another team. In the military, even when at war, there is only a need to fight for more funds. And, those fighting for the funds are more interested in ‘no waves’ to slow down their funding efforts. Heck, if the Air Force funds unwanted bombers in order to get more appropriations in all areas, and the Navy does the same with ships and subs, and the Army does the same for unfit weapons, all those generals have a vested interest in saying all is well with women in the military. Their ‘out’ to cover their conscience is the VA system, which is supposed to ‘pick up the pieces’ that they destroy. And, obviously, their guilt is great as the VA seems to have almost unlimited funding for women’s programs, laterly. Other than WIMSA, I see no other US organization which currently is in a position to defend women in the military. And, I think that the new memorial in Arlington can stand as a tribute to all of us who ‘gave their all’ to the military’. It stands as a monument to the fact that women are a valuable part of the military and ‘they’ know that they owe us a debt of gratitude. I just wish that the OIC at WIMSA would start a memorial section or study for those of us who lost our minds in the military, as well as those of us who lost our bodies. The ‘big picture’ is some of us can luck or fight our way through these active duty traumas and survive emotionally; some of us cannot. We military women with PTSD may be the only ’sane women’ who have served in the military, as we saw the reality and were traumatized by it. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Deeanna, I am so sorry to hear that you are having problems as well. Let’s face it the military will forever be a male dominated world. In the Canadian forces they say that women are either slots or lesbians. If you are a hard ass "B" you bound to be gay. Never mind if you can do your job better then most of the men. What if you show leadership and strength of character you then become a threat to them. I’m coming on to my 17th year of army life which hasn’t always been easy. I can deal with the men forcing me to prove myself day in and day out. What I can not accept is when you fall prey to a trauma and they cast you a side like a broken toy. That they refuse to treat you or believe that you might have a legitimate reason for being the way you are. For past 6 years of my life I pretended that everything was fine, I became a workaholic and let everything suffer around me – even a long time relationship now gone. I was trying to make everything around me perfect so no one could detect that my inner self was falling apart. Guess what? I fooled then all except for one very important person. ME! I forgot to inform myself of what the long term denial would do until one day I found myself at the hospital. Now I am the one suffering. I try to get help once, only to get told by a doctor that I had a bad case of PMS and vitamin B would take care of that. I never knew that PMS could last this long but I guess at that time I was willing to accept any solution to my problem. It gave me a reason why I was so irritable, depressed and aggressive. Since my accident in 93, I had been having nightmares and flashbacks but I thought it was normal. After all, I had almost lost my life and saw some pretty messed up people in the accident. This got multiplied by a 100 times when I was sent back to the same unit that took such ill care of me after my trauma. It’s like all of a sudden you are hit in the face with everything all at once, memories, sensations, fear, anger, hopelessness and the odd feeling that it is going to happen all over again. We might be approaching a new millinium but it is a shame that everyone is getting there at the same time. Take care and be good to yourself, Sylvie
Response:
Hi Sylvie! > Anyone else like me suffer from PTSD because of > serving with the military?
Yes …. but You might want to look into other trauma areas in a web search. Folks have been here who were traumatized as police, firefighters, EMS workers, live fire vets, etc. They have usually ended up finding like folks elsewhere on the net. As we are not unique, there is always someone suffering from the same causes as we are, you just need to look further when you are able. By the time I was in live fire exercises in the military, I was so numb that if they had any trauma effect is was strictly secondary. :/ > Ever since my injuries and my near death accident, I feel as though I > have been cast aside like a broken toy. It’s taken forever to see any type > of counselor for therapy. By the time I see someone I am so fed up and > frustrated that I feel like screaming.
Makes it kinda difficult for the therapist as well as for you? > Plus I think that med are not helping much. I still feel very depress > and can’t sleep most nights. This leaves me pretty irritable and very > moody. I feel like I am on a roller coaster and the ride won’t stop
Been there, still riding, but, it can slow down, at a minimum. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Sylvie, I am in the US Navy and have just recently (8 November) been diagnosed with PTSD, but it is not from an injury due to battle for my country; it is due to having to fight for my right to exist as a human being and as a woman every single frigging day for the last 16 yrs. 10 mos. Sadly, I am STILL fighting that battle, as do most women, however, they refuse to admit it. Actually, that is not the reason I was diagnosed with PTSD; it is due to a sexual assault incident which occurred in 1994. I have not been the same person since and have only gotten worse over the years and am at an extreme end of a rope. Let’s just say that I pity a man in the military, Navy in particular, who EVER feels he has the right to touch me in a sexual manner. He just might end up missing a finger or a hand or worse. I know that sounds really horrible, but I have not yet been through counselling and this is my only coping mechanism at this point. I hope and pray that when I do start my counselling, in time I will feel less vengeful and be able to handle stuff like this in a non-violent manner. You are not alone in your struggles. Even though our incidents differ, we still have the military as a common thread as well as the symptoms and/or lingering problems associated to PTSD. God Bless! Deeanna
Response:
>I am in the US Navy and have just recently (8 November) been diagnosed with >PTSD, but it is not from an injury due to battle for my country; it is due >to having to fight for my right to exist as a human being and as a woman >every single frigging day for the last 16 yrs. 10 mos.
You know what? I can see that things haven’t changed a DAMN bit since I myself was in the military 20 years ago. Women were harrassed even WORSE then, and I am certain that Nancy has a few stories herself as she was in before I was. I was in a co-ed barracks. 16 women, 250 men. 8 of the women were lesbians, which left us straight ones WIDE open for sexual comments, inuendos, etc…, Not only was I sexually assaulted, but I know of other women who experienced assaults too, although some were date-rape situations, as my first assault was that type. While I was in, I experienced married sergeants (my bosses) coming onto me, in order to ‘make it easier for me’, officers doing the same thing to me and other women in the military. I don’t know EXACTLY what it is like now, but from the sounds of it, things haven’t changed a whole helluva lot since I was in. I’m sorry for you, Deanna. Best, Luanne
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