Question:
Nancy, I’ve had a difficult couple of days and only got the chance to read your 2 replies tonight. I’ve saved both to a text file I can work on tomorrow to try to answer yours, but I’ve **GOT** to get some sleep tonight!! Later… Wes…
Response:
>Hi Wes! >> [snip] >OK, I ‘buy’ that explanation for you. I’m still having troubles buying it >for me, tho. :/
Which still mystifies me, Nancy. Granted that just putting on the uniform may not be adequate grounds for you to seek additional help from the VA, you still put in more than enough time to ‘earn’ some extra benefits, too. Most people who served in the military have done the very same. I seriously doubt you’d have any real difficulty in obtaining some additional help from the VA, if you’d only apply a Claim and see what it brings. Even minor ‘injuries’ like Tinnitus (which I have, caused by being too close to some F-4D engines in Nam) can bring up to 10% or more in compensation, plus full medical if it’s service-connected. >> [snip] As long as you can prove you served, that’s all that >> really matters, IMO. >I’ve got the DD214 to prove that I served; I got as far as Okinawa for 24 >months and Camp Hardy. Never made it across that last pond.
I always wanted to get a tour in Okinawa! Only sat on the airport tarmac in Manila for a couple hours, though, en route from Korea to Vietnam. Didn’t get to see much that way! 
>> [snip] >> Ouch. You still don’t pull your punches, do you, Nancy?!? >Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause any pain. I guess that I spend too much time >_not_ learning how to sugar-coat stuff. :/
Not to worry. Most times I don’t want the ’sugar-coating’ in the first place! >> Judging myself, >> on the other hand, is one of my traits (faults?) which many in my >> family are **STILL** trying to get me to stop doing!!! >I’ve learned that this is one of my own personality defects, and somehow >leads me into distorted thinking about myself. YMMV
Count this as true for me, too. It’s one reason my family tries to get me NOT to blame/judge myself for things over which I have no real control. But for me, it usually gets me more depressed which means I ’shut down’ until it passes – which can often take DAYS! >> > [snip] >> Agreed, which is the hell of it. And I’m *NOT* a trained >> professional so my efforts are often wasted, right? >No, I don’t believe that any efforts in helping others are wasted. I do >believe that my own efforts often have consequences which I cannot know >about. I just do my best to make the efforts rewarding (and not painful) >for myself. >I’ll get back to you on the rest of your most interesting and thought >provoking post. I am too tired right now.
So, in your opinion even my failed efforts to help others are not wasted? I can see where that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight! END OF REPLY ONE >Rehi Wes! >> [snip] >> Unless it turns out that all I did was make >> them feel worse and not better. >How can you know? Often it is the messenger who gets kicked due to the >_message_ being unwanted, not un-needed; fought against, not comfortable; >accurate, not illusionary.
Good! As to the question, most of the times when I *DO* know I made something worse is because the person I was trying to help lets me know that I didn’t! Fortunately that doesn’t happen very often. ————–snip—————— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> That realization made my self-image change >> to that of a rather weak individual who was incapable of dealing with >> Life on a daily basis unless I was medicated. My conscious mind did >> NOT – and STILL does not – want to agree with my sub-conscious & >> relinquish ALL ‘control’ of my self. Therein lies the word ‘defeat’, a >> word I deeply hate. And still hate. >Blessed are the meek? For me, recognizing ‘the illusion of control’ has >been a real learning experience. My one persona refuses to anymore let the >other persona manipulate it. The meds are just making it easier to cope >with this refusal by my two personae to cooperate. >I was complaining to my therapist the other day that I am medicated ‘to the >gills’ but I still get the symptoms of stress. She opined that the meds >are just keeping me ‘off the ceiling’, not solving my stress problems from >lawsuits, construction etc.
As are my meds, the Prozac & Trazadone. They keep me ‘buffered’ from the worst of the stress, but I still get an awful lot of it each day. As for the ‘meek’ part – what I meant is that my self-image becomes one of someone incapable of handling even the smallest stress, and yes I do consider that weak when it’s me who’s exhibiting those symptoms. I’m stronger than that – - aren’t I?? At least, that’s the question I end up asking myself far too frequently! My ‘history’ bears this out, too, with those Air Force years and the dangerous AFSCs I earned and the high APRs I was given, which were most closely associated with stress/combat/fighting etc. I do still have some ‘control’ over my conscious mind; I refuse to relinquish that control, small as it is, to my sub-conscious just because I’m not strong enough to deal with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I at least tried my best. Kind >> of a weird ‘place’ to be just now, with so many stressors hitting me >> lately, and no real Time to deal with any of them just yet. >That opinion is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes. I did my >best at the time. Or, as Maya Angelou says (refrigerator art from the VA >CSR Women’s Treatment Program): >You did then >what you knew >how to do … >When you knew better, >You did better. >Smile and there will be something to smile about! >Nancy
Well said! I’m not a great fan of Maya Angelou, but I have heard some of her work. She hits the nail on its head with those words! Thanks for making me smile, Nancy! Wes…
Response:
Hi Wes! >>OK, I ‘buy’ that explanation for you. I’m still having troubles buying >>it for me, tho. :/ > Which still mystifies me, Nancy.
Ain’t misplaced guilt a wonderful thing? distorted thinking, too? Sometimes I just have to ‘bite the bullet’, ‘hold my nose’ and move forward. Unfortunately, I tend to wait too long to get started. :/ ——-snip—————- >>> Agreed, which is the hell of it. And I’m *NOT* a trained >>> professional so my efforts are often wasted, right? >>No, I don’t believe that any efforts in helping others are wasted. I >>do believe that my own efforts often have consequences which I cannot >>know about. I just do my best to make the efforts rewarding (and not >>painful) for myself. > So, in your opinion even my failed efforts to help others are not > wasted? I can see where that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the > insight!
The only waste that I can see is your labelling your efforts as ‘failed’ and ‘wasted’. Those two words are very judgmental in a negative way … about your own self. I believe that, _if I can remain centered_ (a big ‘if’), any effort to help someone else is a ‘gift’ that I give … freely. What the other person does with the gift is her/his responsibility. For example: I gave my father additional income which amounted to about $1 million over his lifetime. He saw this as a weakness which he tried to exploit; about 10 years later, I finally stopped playing the game. He disinherited me when he died. What he chose to do with this gift from me was his decision. Just as the added $1,2 million each income to my brother and sister upon his death has never earned me a simple ‘thank you’ from either of them. In fact, we are in litigation as they have collectively ’stolen’ about $30,000 from me since 1998. And, they are trying to use my PTSD as a weapon against me in Court. I keep saying: this was a gift, gratitude is optional. > Good! As to the question, most of the times when I *DO* know I > made > something worse is because the person I was trying to help lets me > know that I didn’t! Fortunately that doesn’t happen very often.
Sounds like a vicious game being played to me … by the other person. :/ I am not responsible for the outcome if someone decides to accept a gift I have given or to follow a suggestion I have made. Or, as Charles Barkley once said: I am not a role model, don’t follow me! (or words to that effect). ————–snip—————— > As are my meds, the Prozac & Trazadone. They keep me ‘buffered’ > from the > worst of the stress, but I still get an awful lot of it each day. As > for the ‘meek’ part – what I meant is that my self-image becomes one > of someone incapable of handling even the smallest stress, and yes I > do consider that weak when it’s me who’s exhibiting those symptoms. > I’m stronger than that – - aren’t I?? At least, that’s the question I > end up asking myself far too frequently! My ‘history’ bears this out,
Comparison games don’t make much sense to me, especially when I compare the ‘old’ me to the ‘current’ me. Just because I used to travel on business to Latin countries in the middle of revolutions: I was in Argentina less than a week after Isabelita was overthrown by the military and in Nicaragua’s airport right after a bombing, etc., doesn’t mean that I can handle elevators calmly any more. or as the 12 Steppers say: "don’t should on me". I work very hard on this aspect of myself, too. :/ > too, with those Air Force years and the dangerous AFSCs I earned and > the high APRs I was given, which were most closely associated with > stress/combat/fighting etc. I do still have some ‘control’ over my > conscious mind; I refuse to relinquish that control, small as it is, > to my sub-conscious just because I’m not strong enough to deal with > it.
IME, PTSD recovery is not a struggle. Stess results from my struggling against my PTSD symptoms. Self-acceptance results in my symptoms receeding. YMMV Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Rehi Wes! > Those are the ones which often > depress me because the ‘proof’ they are seeking is right in front of > them, they just can’t FOCUS on it properly.
A little judgemental, perhaps? Often others think that I do not do things properly … > I do still feel better having at > least made the attempt.
I believe that this is the important part … trying to help. > Unless it turns out that all I did was make > them feel worse and not better.
How can you know? Often it is the messenger who gets kicked due to the _message_ being unwanted, not un-needed; fought against, not comfortable; accurate, not illusionary. ————–snip—————— > That realization made my self-image change > to that of a rather weak individual who was incapable of dealing with > Life on a daily basis unless I was medicated. My conscious mind did > NOT – and STILL does not – want to agree with my sub-conscious & > relinquish ALL ‘control’ of my self. Therein lies the word ‘defeat’, a > word I deeply hate. And still hate.
Blessed are the meek? For me, recognizing ‘the illusion of control’ has been a real learning experience. My one persona refuses to anymore let the other persona manipulate it. The meds are just making it easier to cope with this refusal by my two personae to cooperate. I was complaining to my therapist the other day that I am medicated ‘to the gills’ but I still get the symptoms of stress. She opined that the meds are just keeping me ‘off the ceiling’, not solving my stress problems from lawsuits, construction etc. > I at least tried my best. Kind > of a weird ‘place’ to be just now, with so many stressors hitting me > lately, and no real Time to deal with any of them just yet.
That opinion is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes. I did my best at the time. Or, as Maya Angelou says (refrigerator art from the VA CSR Women’s Treatment Program): You did then what you knew how to do … When you knew better, You did better. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
"Nancy" <ki…@coxinvalid.net> wrote in message
news:Xns940DE9444F20Fkipcocoxinvalidnet@68.1.17.6… > Hi Wes! > [snip] > > That’s why we Vets need to demonstrate AGAINST these antiquated > > systems and demand more user-orientated programs! > I guess that this POV gets me ‘lost’. Even with the system they now > have, there are folks who delight in trying to work (and/or defraud) the > system and believe that they deserve something just because they served. > I’ve never felt that way.
That’s part of the reason that some of us Vets have to fight the ’system’ as it is, Nancy. And, yes, I’ve met Vets who ‘work the system’, and they’re giving the rest of us Vets a bad rap in the media press. I don’t believe for one second that I ‘deserve’ government benefits simply because I put on the uniform. Perhaps a little financial help getting my college degree in 84 or being able to buy a house without putting down even one red cent as "earnest money" to a realtor, or maybe just help getting prescriptions filled for my service-connected injuries/pains. However, because I was INJURED DURING that decade of service, I am now unable to work any more, even at rather mundane jobs like running a network of computers for a Federal Agency, and it is my considered opinion that my CURRENT inability to work is directly related to those injuries incurred during my military years which brought me to this scenario. I look upon it as one would who had an on-the-job injury that literally ‘retired’ that person medically from doing any work at all. I put in my years, yes, but those years alone aren’t really adequate grounds to ‘deserve’ the benefits, unless of course I had actually managed to retire from military service, which would add a new item to my ‘benefits’ list. Bottom line in my case (& IMO) is that I *HAVE* earned my benefits. Had I been employed by a major corporation with good hospitalization/retirement programs, my ‘on-the-job’ injury would have resulted in ‘medical retirement’ from that corporation. Perhaps because you DON’T feel this way – that you EARNED your benefits – you find it hard to comprehend those of us who do feel this way. That’s okay, you’ve put in your time, just like I did, and you’re entitled to your own opinion. It’s also not a score-keeping kind of thing, and I’ve run into Vets who think THAT way, that because they served in the Army/Marines & were actually out in the jungles in Nam that THEY are the only ones who deserve compensation. I don’t believe it makes a difference either way, though. Congress passed rules/regs that adequately define who we are so ‘the system’ would be as impartial as possible, and treat all us Vets the same way. The fact that it still hasn’t reached what some of us believe is a high-enough level of support changes nothing. You wore the uniform, but I’ve never read your post(s) where you describe in some detail HOW you served. Doesn’t matter. As long as you can prove you served, that’s all that really matters, IMO. > >> It has taken the country a long time to differentiate > >> between those who served and the policy-makers’ decisions. I’m glad > >> that now there is mostly a good differentiation now between the > >> policy makers and the policy enforcers for the Gulf War and Iraq. > > That surely helps the Gulf War & Gulf War II survivors, but how > > does it affect we Nam Vets?? > Well, I am just glad that the ‘war at home’ disappeared for those > returning troops. If my experiences in 1969 when I ETSd somehow made a > difference for those ETSing now, I don’t rue the fact that they have it a > lot easier than I, and many others, did.
Disappeared for WHICH "returning troops", Nancy?? Nam Vets like me? If so, then we’re still at something of an impasse here where you apparently don’t consider yourself a "Vietnam-Era Vet", yet your ETS says different. Under every rule/reg I’ve been able to find over the years, ETSing in 69 puts you right smack in the middle of "Vietnam-Era", my dear! And IF you served in-country, that is, inside the legal boundaries of the nation known (then and now) as Vietnam, you are legally considered a "Combat Veteran", as well. Yet I can also point you to many other "Combat Vets" who don’t consider either one of us to be "combat" troops simply because we didn’t share the next foxhole down from them during a firefight! I prefer to abide by the rules/regs describing "Combat Veterans", since that is where Federally-funded agencies like the VA must go for their description of the term. Those of us who actually served – either during that time in a support role, or in-country at a secure base, or hiding in the jungles with the rest of our buddies – those of us who actually served **DO** deserve some kind of recognition and/or benefits but not simply because we put on the uniform – but because we wore the uniform AT THE TIME we were injured AND DURING a period of nationally recognized conflict with another nation. No other ‘way of life’ in America puts a person in such close proximity to the reality of injury while on-the-job as does that of wearing the uniform during a ‘time of war’, regardless what the action is called. It is that singular distinction, the fact that American troops were fighting/dying in Vietnam, which is the Causative Factor that turns ‘entitlement’ into a ‘right’ to benefits from the VA. It is one of those times in American history when the Common Man(Woman) put their lives literally on the line for their country. It is, finally, a ‘pivotal moment’ in America’s history. While I have, in recent years, actually been thanked and/or given a handshake and/or ‘apologized to’ by someone out in public because I wear my Disabled American Veteran ballcap, that in no way compensates me adequately for what I perceive as the apathy of those in America who – TO THIS DAY – view our military service as so much war-mongering. They (the ones who WON’T shake my hand or give me a "welcome home") are still out there, just to a lesser degree than at that time in America’s past. I really do appreciate the un-asked-for thanks from those who do approach me. I usually just answer "you’re welcome" and go on about my business. Dealing with the memories some of these events bring to me is the main problem I still have with Vietnam. Yet I also am glad that the current generation of returning soldiers is being received quite well by John Q. Public now. They neither ‘deserve’ any name-calling nor accusations of mis-conduct for the duties they performed over in Iraq or Afghanistan or any other middle eastern nation. They were told to go. They went. Honorably. And without the prospect of additional trauma poured onto them by an angry public upon their return from that ‘war zone.’ That is their ‘benefit’ this time around, though I still believe they earned more than just that. > I am jealous of them sometimes that now no one is called a baby-killer, > there’s been no known Lt. Calley look-alike, national leaders are not > being assassinated and Kent State won’t happen again. I work hard to not > be jealous of their good fortune.
Keep up the good work, then! My only ‘jealous’ part about our GW I/IIVets is their youth and physical fitness, neither of which I have now! Yet every day when I login to CNN News on-line, I find another instance of an American dying during an attack by Hussein’s Hessians, and I mourn their loss almost as much as if my own son had just died fighting for Iraq’s ‘freedoms’ and not some nameless soldier from somewhere in America. The main battles have been won, but the skirmishes continue to be nearly as deadly as the all-out assaults of just a few months ago. I do not envy them their vulnerabilities just by being on guard duty at the wrong place and time. I would prefer we lose no more young soldiers to Saddam’s madness, but alas, I’m just one old soldier with very little clout in the system. > >>[snip] I’ve come to the conclusion, early this year, > > that if my ‘answers’ to some questions do not provide an adequate > > answer, then I have failed. > Maybe you have failed your expectations of your own powerfulness? > Reaching out in an effort to help someone else belongs to me. Whether or > not that reaching out is adequate is a judgement call … Judging others > isn’t nice. I think that judging myself as a failure is not a good > thing, also.
Ouch. You still don’t pull your punches, do you, Nancy?!? That’s good, though; sometimes I *need* a little poke to get me back in Reality Mode! Perhaps you’re right, I’m blaming myself for a failure to do something that I couldn’t have done in the first place. But that’s something I’ve done damn near my whole life, Nancy. Trying to help others is not just some self-gratification thing with me; my Mom, God rest her soul, is responsible for that. Mom was *always* trying to help other people! Even at times when she physically couldn’t help. Did my words come across to you as me making a ‘judgement call’ against other people? If so, then I apologize most vehemently because that is *NOT* how I intended them to read! Judging other people is something I’m not allowed to do under my personal belief system. Judging myself, on the other hand, is one of my traits (faults?) which many in my family are **STILL** trying to get me to stop doing!!! I could never judge any one else because of that "finger" thing. When I point my finger at you, the ‘normal’ manner in which the hand is held TO point that finger also causes my other 3 fingers to point RIGHT BACK AT ME!! I really do hold the belief that until/unless I can/am able to "clean up" the log in my own ‘eye’, I should not ever try to do that with the tiny splinter in someone else’s ‘eye’. Since I know I can never fully remove that ‘log’ in my eye, then I also know that I can never fully try to remove the splinter in anyone else’s eye. So, when you do see me trying to judge someone else, … read more »
Response:
Hi Wes! > That’s part of the reason that some of us Vets have to fight the > ’system’ as it is, Nancy. And, yes, I’ve met Vets who ‘work the > system’, and they’re giving the rest of us Vets a bad rap in the media > press. I don’t believe for one second that I ‘deserve’ government > benefits simply because I put on the uniform. Perhaps a little > financial help getting my college degree in 84 or being able to buy a > house without putting down even one red cent as "earnest money" to a > realtor, or maybe just help getting prescriptions filled for my > service-connected injuries/pains.
I can accept and have used all of these advantages. I appreciate them and I do appreciate the fact that they were part of what I ‘earned’ as part of my service. > However, because I was INJURED > DURING that decade of service, I am now unable to work any more, even > at rather mundane jobs like running a network of computers for a > Federal Agency, and it is my considered opinion that my CURRENT > inability to work is directly related to those injuries incurred > during my military years which brought me to this scenario. I look > upon it as one would who had an on-the-job injury that literally > ‘retired’ that person medically from doing any work at all. I put in > my years, yes, but those years alone aren’t really adequate grounds to > ‘deserve’ the benefits, unless of course I had actually managed to > retire from military service, which would add a new item to my > ‘benefits’ list. Bottom line in my case (& IMO) is that I *HAVE* > earned my benefits. Had I been employed by a major corporation with > good hospitalization/retirement programs, my ‘on-the-job’ injury would > have resulted in ‘medical retirement’ from that corporation.
OK, I ‘buy’ that explanation for you. I’m still having troubles buying it for me, tho. :/ > Perhaps because you DON’T feel this way – that you EARNED your > benefits – you find it hard to comprehend those of us who do feel this > way. That’s okay, you’ve put in your time, just like I did, and you’re > entitled to your own opinion. It’s also not a score-keeping kind of > thing, and I’ve run into Vets who think THAT way, that because they > served in the Army/Marines & were actually out in the jungles in Nam > that THEY are the only ones who deserve compensation. I don’t believe > it makes a difference either way, though. Congress passed rules/regs > that adequately define who we are so ‘the system’ would be as > impartial as possible, and treat all us Vets the same way. The fact > that it still hasn’t reached what some of us believe is a high-enough > level of support changes nothing. You wore the uniform, but I’ve never > read your post(s) where you describe in some detail HOW you served. > Doesn’t matter. As long as you can prove you served, that’s all that > really matters, IMO.
I’ve got the DD214 to prove that I served; I got as far as Okinawa for 24 months and Camp Hardy. Never made it across that last pond. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Disappeared for WHICH "returning troops", Nancy?? Nam Vets like > me? If > so, then we’re still at something of an impasse here where you > apparently don’t consider yourself a "Vietnam-Era Vet", yet your ETS > says different. Under every rule/reg I’ve been able to find over the > years, ETSing in 69 puts you right smack in the middle of > "Vietnam-Era", my dear! And IF you served in-country, that is, inside > the legal boundaries of the nation known (then and now) as Vietnam, > you are legally considered a "Combat Veteran", as well. Yet I can also > point you to many other "Combat Vets" who don’t consider either one of > us to be "combat" troops simply because we didn’t share the next > foxhole down from them during a firefight! I prefer to abide by the > rules/regs describing "Combat Veterans", since that is where > Federally-funded agencies like the VA must go for their description of > the term. > Those of us who actually served – either during that time in a > support > role, or in-country at a secure base, or hiding in the jungles with > the rest of our buddies – those of us who actually served **DO** > deserve some kind of recognition and/or benefits but not simply > because we put on the uniform – but because we wore the uniform AT THE > TIME we were injured AND DURING a period of nationally recognized > conflict with another nation. No other ‘way of life’ in America puts a > person in such close proximity to the reality of injury while > on-the-job as does that of wearing the uniform during a ‘time of war’, > regardless what the action is called. It is that singular distinction, > the fact that American troops were fighting/dying in Vietnam, which is > the Causative Factor that turns ‘entitlement’ into a ‘right’ to > benefits from the VA. It is one of those times in American history > when the Common Man(Woman) put their lives literally on the line for > their country. It is, finally, a ‘pivotal moment’ in America’s > history. > While I have, in recent years, actually been thanked and/or given > a > handshake and/or ‘apologized to’ by someone out in public because I > wear my Disabled American Veteran ballcap, that in no way compensates > me adequately for what I perceive as the apathy of those in America > who – TO THIS DAY – view our military service as so much > war-mongering. They (the ones who WON’T shake my hand or give me a > "welcome home") are still out there, just to a lesser degree than at > that time in America’s past. I really do appreciate the un-asked-for > thanks from those who do approach me. I usually just answer "you’re > welcome" and go on about my business. Dealing with the memories some > of these events bring to me is the main problem I still have with > Vietnam. Yet I also am glad that the current generation of returning > soldiers is being received quite well by John Q. Public now. They > neither ‘deserve’ any name-calling nor accusations of mis-conduct for > the duties they performed over in Iraq or Afghanistan or any other > middle eastern nation. They were told to go. They went. Honorably. And > without the prospect of additional trauma poured onto them by an angry > public upon their return from that ‘war zone.’ That is their ‘benefit’ > this time around, though I still believe they earned more than just > that. >> I am jealous of them sometimes that now no one is called a >> baby-killer, there’s been no known Lt. Calley look-alike, national >> leaders are not being assassinated and Kent State won’t happen again. >> I work hard to not be jealous of their good fortune. > Keep up the good work, then! My only ‘jealous’ part about our GW > I/IIVets is their youth and physical fitness, neither of which I have > now! Yet every day when I login to CNN News on-line, I find > another instance of an American dying during an attack by Hussein’s > Hessians, and I mourn their loss almost as much as if my own son had > just died fighting for Iraq’s ‘freedoms’ and not some nameless soldier > from somewhere in America. The main battles have been won, but the > skirmishes continue to be nearly as deadly as the all-out assaults of > just a few months ago. I do not envy them their vulnerabilities just > by being on guard duty at the wrong place and time. I would prefer we > lose no more young soldiers to Saddam’s madness, but alas, I’m just > one old soldier with very little clout in the system. >> >>[snip] > Ouch. You still don’t pull your punches, do you, Nancy?!?
Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause any pain. I guess that I spend too much time _not_ learning how to sugar-coat stuff. :/ > Did my words come across to you as me making a ‘judgement call’ > against > other people?
No > Judging myself, > on the other hand, is one of my traits (faults?) which many in my > family are **STILL** trying to get me to stop doing!!!
I’ve learned that this is one of my own personality defects, and somehow leads me into distorted thinking about myself. YMMV >> > I can "emphathize" with people all day >> > long, but if I can’t even understand WHERE they’re coming from, >> > then my ‘mission’ is in jeopardy! My ‘goal’ is to help anyone who >> > is suffering something similar to my experiences to reach that >> > point where they can move FORWARD without carrying too much of the >> > "Past" with them. >> Heck, your mission is no-win, Wes. Not even the trained >> professionals do more than aspire to this goal. > Agreed, which is the hell of it. And I’m *NOT* a trained > professional so > my efforts are often wasted, right?
No, I don’t believe that any efforts in helping others are wasted. I do believe that my own efforts often have consequences which I cannot know about. I just do my best to make the efforts rewarding (and not painful) for myself. I’ll get back to you on the rest of your most interesting and thought provoking post. I am too tired right now. Hope that you have found your daughter quickly and easily by the time you read this. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Hi Wes! > You’ve hit "the Wall" now, Nancy. The only way through it is to > ‘bulldoze’ your way through, as if your Claim was already approved and > all you need is the approval!
So long as they are paying me properly and medically treating me properly, what’s the diff if C&P has it wrong? IOW, why would I really care … the SSA folks didn’t care what C&P had to say, they only cared about my pdoc’s opinion. No one I’ve met really cares what C&P says is ‘the problem’; they all care about the pdoc’s assessment. > True, hourly rates are out when considering SSA cases. The max > they can > expect is 25% of the "winnings", whatever they might be. In my case, > $13K times 4-plus years reaches a high of around $52,000. I can live > with 25% of that going to my lawyer, the rest coming to me!
I agree that contingency fees make for a win-win situation. > That’s why we Vets need to demonstrate AGAINST these antiquated > systems > and demand more user-orientated programs!
I guess that this POV gets me ‘lost’. Even with the system they now have, there are folks who delight in trying to work (and/or defraud) the system and believe that they deserve something just because they served. I’ve never felt that way. >> It has taken the country a long time to differentiate >> between those who served and the policy-makers’ decisions. I’m glad >> that now there is mostly a good differentiation now between the >> policy makers and the policy enforcers for the Gulf War and Iraq. > That surely helps the Gulf War & Gulf War II survivors, but how > does it affect we Nam Vets??
Well, I am just glad that the ‘war at home’ disappeared for those returning troops. If my experiences in 1969 when I ETSd somehow made a difference for those ETSing now, I don’t rue the fact that they have it a lot easier than I, and many others, did. I am jealous of them sometimes that now no one is called a baby-killer, there’s been no known Lt. Calley look-alike, national leaders are not being assassinated and Kent State won’t happen again. I work hard to not be jealous of their good fortune. >> Please don’t be depressed that you cannot help one person ‘who’s >> clearnly hurting badly’. I’ve found, over the years, that ng posts >> reach bunches of folks who have sent me individual gratitude notes at >> times, with no expectation of an answer, just a small note of thank >> you. I started saving these notes to read when I am ‘down’; they >> give me a reason to ‘keep on’ keeping on. > This is good news, Nancy! I’ve come to the conclusion, early this > year, > that if my ‘answers’ to some questions do not provide an adequate > answer, then I have failed.
Maybe you have failed your expectations of your own powerfulness? Reaching out in an effort to help someone else belongs to me. Whether or not that reaching out is adequate is a judgement call … Judging others isn’t nice. I think that judging myself as a failure is not a good thing, also. YMMV > I can "emphathize" with people all day > long, but if I can’t even understand WHERE they’re coming from, then > my ‘mission’ is in jeopardy! My ‘goal’ is to help anyone who is > suffering something similar to my experiences to reach that point > where they can move FORWARD without carrying too much of the "Past" > with them.
Heck, your mission is no-win, Wes. Not even the trained professionals do more than aspire to this goal. > After all, why should 2 suffer when 1 has already gone > through it?
I was always taught that the difference between humans and other animals is that we have a written history and ‘can learn from our past experiences’ over millenia. But … I keep seeing folks who have no concept of history, let alone desire to learn its lessons. I agree with your premise. My experience tells me that not everyone wants to ‘not suffer’ with PTSD. Part of my situation has been a belief (distorted thinking) that somehow I’ve done something to deserve the ‘bad stuff’. I fought for years to ‘not deserve the bad stuff’, but could not escape it. Apparently some part of me needed to suffer through the ‘bad stuff’. YMMV > Thanks, Nancy
No sweat-ti-da, GI. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
"Nancy" <ki…@coxinvalid.net> wrote in message
news:Xns940CD44895D40kipcocoxinvalidnet@68.1.17.6… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Wes! > > I’m sorry your C&P is still > > inaccurate. The bozos have no clue what we have to live through just > > to get a little help from them! Sounds like one hand doesn’t know what > > the other is doing, huh? Typical. > > Damn! Sounds like your PDoc’s on the right tack, contrary to the C&P > > eval. Can’t you convince him/her to apply some pressure to the C&P > > folks since you have NOT displayed any manic symptoms? Worth a shot, I > > think. > That’s part of the politics inside the VA. The medical pdocs are treated > like some kind of enemy agents by the C&P folks. My pdoc stated in > writing that I have no manic symtoms over 10 years in her filing for my > re-evaluation … didn’t make a bit of difference to C&P.
You’ve hit "the Wall" now, Nancy. The only way through it is to ‘bulldoze’ your way through, as if your Claim was already approved and all you need is the approval! > > The SSA has twice denied my Claim for disability benefits, stating > > that I’m not seriously enough disabled! That’s why I have a > > contingency fee lawyer on the case now. > My lawyer turned out to be my personal attorney who started her lawyering > at SSA. Turns out that it is not legal for an attorney to charge an > hourly rate for work before the SSA … only contingency fees. Don’t be > too grateful that the guy works on contingency for you … otherwise, he > might have no practice at all and/or be on his way to jail.
True, hourly rates are out when considering SSA cases. The max they can expect is 25% of the "winnings", whatever they might be. In my case, $13K times 4-plus years reaches a high of around $52,000. I can live with 25% of that going to my lawyer, the rest coming to me! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most of the SSA disability specialist lawyers I met treated their cases > like a legal ‘mill’ and could not help me until I got my paperwork in > order. I couldn’t begin to figure out what they had in mind. She started > helping me when I was in her office, rambling on about something else. > She got my CPA to do what was needed and then me in front of a SSA judge > … seemed peculiar to me at the time, but it was what was needed. > >> With PTSD the stress of filing claims is counterproductive to the > >> medical treatment for PTSD. IOW, I think that I had to achieve a > >> certain amount of > >> recovery before I could file any claims. > > And isn’t that fairly typical of the manner in which they treat us > > all? But it stinks if you’re right about achieving a certain amount of > > recovery first; what are you supposed to do, heal yourself FIIRST and > > THEN file a Claim??? That is NOT a productive medical treatment for > > ANYthing, IMO! > I agree, but I do understand the why … I just don’t like it. :/
That’s why we Vets need to demonstrate AGAINST these antiquated systems and demand more user-orientated programs! > > I am now almost > > ashamed to admit I was there. We were McNamara’s puppets on strings, > > dancing to his music, not our own. > Hey … lots of folks hid for several decades, ashamed of our service. > It has taken the country a long time to differentiate between those who > served and the policy-makers’ decisions. I’m glad that now there is > mostly a good differentiation now between the policy makers and the > policy enforcers for the Gulf War and Iraq.
That surely helps the Gulf War & Gulf War II survivors, but how does it affect we Nam Vets?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now, if we can only learn to forgive ourselves for being the (often > drafted, remember the Selective Service?) policy enforcers. :/ > > Hate it or not, though, if you’re *needing* the economic help from the > > VA, then that proves (to me) that you can’t earn a decent amount of > > ‘income’ because of your service injuries. Neither could I after > > ‘medically retiring’ in April of 1999, therefore filing the VA Claim > > was not really an ‘option’ for me, it was a necessity! Because you > > served you acquired certain ‘rights’ to the benefits available under > > current Federal Law. "Sitting" on that Claim isn’t going to help you > > until it’s actually filed. Please don’t concern yourself so much with > > the feeling of "dependence" on the gubmint; we **EARNED** these > > benefits!! It’s not like we’re trying to ‘mooch’ off the System or > > anything. We volunteered our very lives to serve this nation, and they > > OWE us something in return! > Well, I do have a Scot heritage and a reputation for making two pennies > rubbed together turn into a dime. I can live without the extra money … > just not support my son very well as he goes to college and/or have some > extras (like a replacement for my 11 yo car with 185K miles). And, he > has paid his dues living with me since he was born. :/ > > Yeah, wasn’t that neat?!? "Hey, you can’t read the UCMJ nor write your > > own name, but I bet you can fire this here rifle!! Say!! What about a > > ‘free’ trip overseas? Don’t that sound peachy-keen?!?" Sorry. Couldn’t > > resist that. > Yeah … it was a major mess to use the U.S. Army for social change of > the nation. It is also the reason that blacks were disproportionately > represented in RVN.
Agreed. The military is NOT the proper realm in which to develop "social changes" for the general public. In a military unit, the primary concern MUST BE to prepare ALL troups to be capable of killing their enemies. hrough > > Johnson, Nixon, and Ford. (Or was that Carter?) You haven’t mentioned > > this concerning yourself, but I seriously tried making the Air Force a > > 20-year career until the financial crunch on an E-5 with a wife & > > child just got to be too much to deal with. > As an Army brat, I thought that I would make it my career also. It > didn’t work out for me either … due primarily to my emotional breakdown > on active duty: misdiagnosed at the time, of course. I think that I > became pigeon-holed as a ‘hysterical female’. I ETS’d as soon as I had a > ‘authorized’ reason.
Similar to my Honorable Discharge in 1975, when I tried re-building my life after my wife moved in with her boyfriend – and my eldest Son!! They claimed I was ‘unstable’ and could not perform my job duties. > > Still, I’m alive > > another day, thank God, and looks like I’ll keep on waking up for a > > good while yet to come. You might consider trying to make the pain > > your ‘friend’, Nancy. It tells you you’re still living! It hurts, yes, > > but it is possible to look upon it in a positive manner if one just > > tries hard enough. YMMV > I’m not talking about physical pain, Wes. Although my medical doc (on > the outside) has me on permanent painkillers on a daily basis, with the > attendant liver checkups and I call him Dr. Vulture, the emotional pain > continues to hurt big-time. I am really glad that there is no time-limit > on rcovery … I would have earned an ‘F’ if there were. :/
No, Nancy, there’s no "timetable" on emotional pain. It can last forever, believe me! So can physical pain, even when we dose ourselves with "prescrption" doses of available pain meds. Mine do damn near nothing to alleviate my daily pain, but I keep taking them because they *do* provide minimal relief! > > I may not respond to many posts here, either, because it also > > depresses me when I’m unable to help someone who’s clearly hurting > > badly. Sometimes it’s just better if I remain in Lurk Mode; sometimes > > it’s not. We shall see. > Please don’t be depressed that you cannot help one person ‘who’s clearnly > hurting badly’. I’ve found, over the years, that ng posts reach bunches > of folks who have sent me individual gratitude notes at times, with no > expectation of an answer, just a small note of thank you. I started > saving these notes to read when I am ‘down’; they give me a reason to > ‘keep on’ keeping on.
This is good news, Nancy! I’ve come to the conclusion, early this year, that if my ‘answers’ to some questions do not provide an adequate answer, then I have failed. I can "emphathize" with people all day long, but if I can’t even understand WHERE they’re coming from, then my ‘mission’ is in jeopardy! My ‘goal’ is to help anyone who is suffering something similar to my experiences to reach that point where they can move FORWARD without carrying too much of the "Past" with them. After all, why should 2 suffer when 1 has already gone through it? > Smile and there will be something to smile about! > Nancy
YMMV Thanks, Nancy Wes…
Response:
1] If you have a Purple Heart you are 30%. No ifs. 2] Write it on the Computer. Double Space it. 1/2 sheet of paper only. What Law do you dispute ? How did it happen ? How does it affect you. Attach the Laws and know what Section and Sub Section you need. Put in ’ Clear and Unmistakable Error.’ This pays to last day of Service. PTSD and AO do not meet this Law. Forget to include this you are only paid from date of filing. You can re file tho. Its a Powerful Law. Too long for me to explain. Don’t know the Law ? Google> title 38 cfr and 38 USC. Do not use that VA Claim form. They read scribble all day. Your Hearing ; Talk like Kissenger. Read ALL Laws applicable. Do NOT BE A 10 MIN. VET ! Stay in there for a good hour read all Laws as VA always comes back to that first Hearing. The Hearing Officer will ask if you need a break. Tell him I’d like to finish this one Law. Ignore him and just stay in there. I can’t look at mine as I LMAO ! He was later fired for turning me down. Why ? He denied me and this caused a PILE of Remands. VA hates remands. I do not suffer PTSD, but I can give it. [I'm as welcome in VA as Tim McViegh would be and asking the guard can he direct him to the basement support beams so I place these Blue barrels near them ?] You can file 10 Claims on Disability. Howard Hughes was sued by the Gov. He hired 3 big Law Firms. One to plead Guilty, one to make a deal, one to fight like hell ! The Gov. gave up. I did the same only I used all kinds of What Laws and How it happened. It drove them nuts and I walked out with 100% for GSW, FBs and Muscle Damage. One was 0% for Peroneal Nerve damage, check the Law ! Peroneal has NO 0% it starts at 10% ! I still was not paid for this one under CU. I have my new claim written now. I get 10% from 1971 and all COLAs that will come with it up to 1990 when I first filed my Claim. I can’t lose. I did put in CU in the first place. Fighting was fun, after I got $ 138,000 I felt lost. Its the hunt not the kill. I’m glad I now found new evidence for the ‘ K’ award and can get CU on some of the old Awards. Look, just make it a battle of Wits. They are not very smart people. Have fun ! Wes, you sound bitter, don’t be. The Law is on your side all the way, but only if you use it. The VSO and SOs are of little help. They hold up that big black book and tell you how smart they are….forget it. Write your own claims, but let them look it over and hand it in. What is a SS Judge ? A guy who did not have the money to pay a Shill to pass the BAR Exam. Just like a Real Judge. A good Lawyer remains a Lawyer as he makes better money. Check your own City on this. Its the guy with no clients who run for Judge. They are the scrap heap of Lawyers. Ok Wes, you’re an 11bravo, use your power of Observation again. "Wesley C. Martin" <wcmar…@sirinet.net> wrote in message news:vnhrtg619ih402@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [Exit Lurk Mode] > "oldsurvivor" <justsome…@att.net> wrote in message > news:3f75316a.1651396@news.cis.dfn.de… > > Thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding diagnoses. One > > of you said that a diagnoses is not required by a shrink, that instead > > one goes to the c&p hearing. If this is the case, what do the c&p > > people base their disgnoses on if there is not one from the shrink? > Nancy answered this rather well, but you must keep in mind that each > case is different to some degree. I’m also wondering why she states that a > C&P diagnosis does NOT result in "medical treatment." It’s the only way for > any Vet to GET medical treatment for a diagnosis of PTSD from any physician > private or public. Yes, there’s money involved if a Rating above 0% is > assigned to the Vet, but that’s not the primary consideration. The primary > consideration should be that NOW with a confirmed diagnosis of PTSD, the Vet > **CAN** be treated medically! And anyone who doubts that a Disability Rating > of 0% can be assigned to a Vet can obtain a scanned copy of my Awards Notice > from the VA which assigned me a 0% Rating on 2 other service-connected > disabilities; all you have to do is ask for it, and I shall scan it in & > e-mail it to you. > > Also, someone mentioned the mmpi. All I can say about that is those > > can be faked. I know, my job requires that I take one on a regular > > bases. I have taken one from a private shrink and the > > answers/diagnoses are/is far different than the ones I take for my > > job. > There have been a few cases I’ve heard of in Texas, California, New > York, and elsewhere, where Vets tried to scam the VA out of monetary > benefits using faked test results and the forged signatures of doctors > they’d seen. They got caught. They got convicted of "attempt to defraud the > U.S. Government." They are still serving prison terms for it. My ‘take’ on > it: no amount of monthly VA Disability Benefits is worth the risk of getting > caught trying to cheat Uncle Sam this way. Having said that, it still > bothers me that when I was originally diagnosed on July 27, 1992, no one – > and I mean **NO ONE** – ever bothered to let me know that I should then file > a Claim based ON that diagnosis!! I didn’t get help from the VA to actually > file the Claim until February of 1999!!! Six-and-a-half years of benefits I > *could* have been drawing but was denied simply because the VA itself did > not want me to file the Claim & start drawing the higher benefits I really > deserved. The kicker was that under all guidelines I could find about this > kind of tactic, there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it legally. The > presumption being that I should have known enough about my VA benefits to > know that I needed to file a new Claim. > Did we or did we not put our lives on the line for our country over in > Vietnam? Were we or were we not treated as War Criminals before, during, and > after our tour of duty in Nam? Have we or have we not become "damaged goods" > who must struggle on our own every single day just to keep from ‘losing it’ > and taking out everyone around us? And have we or have we not felt totally > abandoned by our own government officials who keep trying to sweep it all > ‘under the rug’ to hide the truth that we & ‘they’ already know? While YMMV, > as Nancy so accurately puts it, the original intent was to put us square > pegs into those tiny round holes. And we never did/will/want to accept all > these half-truths about us because we know the real truth. > [Enter Lurk Mode]
Response:
Wrong Nancy. I did not take SS. I do know many who did win all the way back to last Employment. Look at those ‘ Factoid ‘ Laws. They only send you the part that is against you. Read the Entire Law ! Type in the title like I told Wes. Have lots of ink. Do not read INTO the Law, have a buddy look at it, if wrong make sure they tell you right out ! You are not allowed to make ANY mistakes. One guarantee win is a book Called the ‘ Veterans Handbook.’ It shows a SS Law they can’t beat you on. If no one is happy on SS or VA contact the VA or SS Attorney General. Then see the sparks fly ! Blessings. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Nancy" <ki…@coxinvalid.net> wrote in message news:Xns940741F8073FFkipcocoxinvalidnet@68.1.17.6… > Hi Wesley! > > [Exit Lurk Mode] > Glad to see you again. > > I’m also wondering why she states > > that a C&P diagnosis does NOT result in "medical treatment." > That was my experience. I got medical treatment for PTSD without the C&P > diagnosis for about 7 years. The C&P diagnosis is still ‘innaccurate’ in > that it states I am bipolar; my pdoc says I am not because she has treated > me for PTSD since 1991 and she has yet to see me manic. She refuses to > treat me according to the C&P diagnosis. The C&P folks refuse to diagnose > me as PTSD … and will do almost anything to avoid interviewing me again. > ———————-snip ———————- > > Having said that, it still bothers me that when I was originally > > diagnosed on July 27, 1992, no one – and I mean **NO ONE** – ever > > bothered to let me know that I should then file a Claim based ON that > > diagnosis!! I didn’t get help from the VA to actually file the Claim > > until February of 1999!!! Six-and-a-half years of benefits I *could* > > have been drawing but was denied simply because the VA itself did not > > want me to file the Claim & start drawing the higher benefits I really > > deserved. The kicker was that under all guidelines I could find about > > this kind of tactic, there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it > > legally. The presumption being that I should have known enough about > > my VA benefits to know that I needed to file a new Claim. > This is one of the problems with psych diagnoses. I have the same problem > with the SSA. My award letter said something like: we consider you to have > become disabled in 1991, but federal law states that we only pay you for > the two years before you filed your initial claim. > With PTSD the stress of filing claims is counterproductive to the medical > treatment for PTSD. IOW, I think that I had to achieve a certain amount of > recovery before I could file any claims. > I have been sitting on a filing since last June, because, one more time it > is freaking me out that I ‘have’, economically, to ask for help. I hate > this feeling of dependence on the government because I wasn’t smart enough > to understand the politics of the Vietnam war and ETS in time. > OTOH, I am glad that I could serve my country, even though the CinC was > Johnson. And, McNamara found 500,000 folks who needed to learn to read and > write but could fire a rifle and be an llB. > I work every day on being grateful for my life and the ‘good’ things I now > have. My body just doesn’t feel grateful yet … just scared, still. > YMMV > > [Enter Lurk Mode] > Oh, please don’t. > Smile and there will be something to smile about! > Nancy
Response:
Hi Wes! > I’m sorry your C&P is still > inaccurate. The bozos have no clue what we have to live through just > to get a little help from them! Sounds like one hand doesn’t know what > the other is doing, huh? Typical. > Damn! Sounds like your PDoc’s on the right tack, contrary to the C&P > eval. Can’t you convince him/her to apply some pressure to the C&P > folks since you have NOT displayed any manic symptoms? Worth a shot, I > think.
That’s part of the politics inside the VA. The medical pdocs are treated like some kind of enemy agents by the C&P folks. My pdoc stated in writing that I have no manic symtoms over 10 years in her filing for my re-evaluation … didn’t make a bit of difference to C&P. > The SSA has twice denied my Claim for disability benefits, stating > that I’m not seriously enough disabled! That’s why I have a > contingency fee lawyer on the case now.
My lawyer turned out to be my personal attorney who started her lawyering at SSA. Turns out that it is not legal for an attorney to charge an hourly rate for work before the SSA … only contingency fees. Don’t be too grateful that the guy works on contingency for you … otherwise, he might have no practice at all and/or be on his way to jail. Most of the SSA disability specialist lawyers I met treated their cases like a legal ‘mill’ and could not help me until I got my paperwork in order. I couldn’t begin to figure out what they had in mind. She started helping me when I was in her office, rambling on about something else. She got my CPA to do what was needed and then me in front of a SSA judge … seemed peculiar to me at the time, but it was what was needed. >> With PTSD the stress of filing claims is counterproductive to the >> medical treatment for PTSD. IOW, I think that I had to achieve a >> certain amount of >> recovery before I could file any claims. > And isn’t that fairly typical of the manner in which they treat us > all? But it stinks if you’re right about achieving a certain amount of > recovery first; what are you supposed to do, heal yourself FIIRST and > THEN file a Claim??? That is NOT a productive medical treatment for > ANYthing, IMO!
I agree, but I do understand the why … I just don’t like it. :/ > I am now almost > ashamed to admit I was there. We were McNamara’s puppets on strings, > dancing to his music, not our own.
Hey … lots of folks hid for several decades, ashamed of our service. It has taken the country a long time to differentiate between those who served and the policy-makers’ decisions. I’m glad that now there is mostly a good differentiation now between the policy makers and the policy enforcers for the Gulf War and Iraq. Now, if we can only learn to forgive ourselves for being the (often drafted, remember the Selective Service?) policy enforcers. :/ > Hate it or not, though, if you’re *needing* the economic help from the > VA, then that proves (to me) that you can’t earn a decent amount of > ‘income’ because of your service injuries. Neither could I after > ‘medically retiring’ in April of 1999, therefore filing the VA Claim > was not really an ‘option’ for me, it was a necessity! Because you > served you acquired certain ‘rights’ to the benefits available under > current Federal Law. "Sitting" on that Claim isn’t going to help you > until it’s actually filed. Please don’t concern yourself so much with > the feeling of "dependence" on the gubmint; we **EARNED** these > benefits!! It’s not like we’re trying to ‘mooch’ off the System or > anything. We volunteered our very lives to serve this nation, and they > OWE us something in return!
Well, I do have a Scot heritage and a reputation for making two pennies rubbed together turn into a dime. I can live without the extra money … just not support my son very well as he goes to college and/or have some extras (like a replacement for my 11 yo car with 185K miles). And, he has paid his dues living with me since he was born. :/ > Yeah, wasn’t that neat?!? "Hey, you can’t read the UCMJ nor write your > own name, but I bet you can fire this here rifle!! Say!! What about a > ‘free’ trip overseas? Don’t that sound peachy-keen?!?" Sorry. Couldn’t > resist that.
Yeah … it was a major mess to use the U.S. Army for social change of the nation. It is also the reason that blacks were disproportionately represented in RVN. > Actually, I’m also glad I was able to serve my country through > Johnson, Nixon, and Ford. (Or was that Carter?) You haven’t mentioned > this concerning yourself, but I seriously tried making the Air Force a > 20-year career until the financial crunch on an E-5 with a wife & > child just got to be too much to deal with.
As an Army brat, I thought that I would make it my career also. It didn’t work out for me either … due primarily to my emotional breakdown on active duty: misdiagnosed at the time, of course. I think that I became pigeon-holed as a ‘hysterical female’. I ETS’d as soon as I had a ‘authorized’ reason. > Still, I’m alive > another day, thank God, and looks like I’ll keep on waking up for a > good while yet to come. You might consider trying to make the pain > your ‘friend’, Nancy. It tells you you’re still living! It hurts, yes, > but it is possible to look upon it in a positive manner if one just > tries hard enough. YMMV
I’m not talking about physical pain, Wes. Although my medical doc (on the outside) has me on permanent painkillers on a daily basis, with the attendant liver checkups and I call him Dr. Vulture, the emotional pain continues to hurt big-time. I am really glad that there is no time-limit on rcovery … I would have earned an ‘F’ if there were. :/ > I may not respond to many posts here, either, because it also > depresses me when I’m unable to help someone who’s clearly hurting > badly. Sometimes it’s just better if I remain in Lurk Mode; sometimes > it’s not. We shall see.
Please don’t be depressed that you cannot help one person ‘who’s clearnly hurting badly’. I’ve found, over the years, that ng posts reach bunches of folks who have sent me individual gratitude notes at times, with no expectation of an answer, just a small note of thank you. I started saving these notes to read when I am ‘down’; they give me a reason to ‘keep on’ keeping on. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding diagnoses. One of you said that a diagnoses is not required by a shrink, that instead one goes to the c&p hearing. If this is the case, what do the c&p people base their disgnoses on if there is not one from the shrink? Also, someone mentioned the mmpi. All I can say about that is those can be faked. I know, my job requires that I take one on a regular bases. I have taken one from a private shrink and the answers/diagnoses are/is far different than the ones I take for my job.
Response:
Hi oldsurvivor! > One > of you said that a diagnoses is not required by a shrink, that instead > one goes to the c&p hearing. If this is the case, what do the c&p > people base their disgnoses on if there is not one from the shrink?
If this is what you read in my response, then let me clarify. So long as you have a ‘reason to apply’ (which can be a diagnosis froma pdoc in the VA system, a pdoc in private life, a report from an ER …), the c&p folks get you evaluated (cursory IMO) by talking to one of ‘their’ pdocs (not VA pdocs, but private contractors). Their pdocs make the determination for the c&p diagnosis which results in money (sometimes), not medical treatment. > Also, someone mentioned the mmpi. All I can say about that is those > can be faked. I know, my job requires that I take one on a regular > bases. I have taken one from a private shrink and the > answers/diagnoses are/is far different than the ones I take for my > job.
One of the first things that I found necessary in getting treatment from the VA medical side was to ‘become authentic’ with them. If you are not willing to be authentic, they usually can figure it out … and vary their treatment of vets based upon who ‘really wants psych help’ IME. Folks who insist upon trying to manipulate the VA psych system are tolerated until they finally give up and/or they commit suicide. :/ YMMV Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
[Exit Lurk Mode] "oldsurvivor" <justsome…@att.net> wrote in message
news:3f75316a.1651396@news.cis.dfn.de… > Thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding diagnoses. One > of you said that a diagnoses is not required by a shrink, that instead > one goes to the c&p hearing. If this is the case, what do the c&p > people base their disgnoses on if there is not one from the shrink?
Nancy answered this rather well, but you must keep in mind that each case is different to some degree. I’m also wondering why she states that a C&P diagnosis does NOT result in "medical treatment." It’s the only way for any Vet to GET medical treatment for a diagnosis of PTSD from any physician private or public. Yes, there’s money involved if a Rating above 0% is assigned to the Vet, but that’s not the primary consideration. The primary consideration should be that NOW with a confirmed diagnosis of PTSD, the Vet **CAN** be treated medically! And anyone who doubts that a Disability Rating of 0% can be assigned to a Vet can obtain a scanned copy of my Awards Notice from the VA which assigned me a 0% Rating on 2 other service-connected disabilities; all you have to do is ask for it, and I shall scan it in & e-mail it to you. > Also, someone mentioned the mmpi. All I can say about that is those > can be faked. I know, my job requires that I take one on a regular > bases. I have taken one from a private shrink and the > answers/diagnoses are/is far different than the ones I take for my > job.
There have been a few cases I’ve heard of in Texas, California, New York, and elsewhere, where Vets tried to scam the VA out of monetary benefits using faked test results and the forged signatures of doctors they’d seen. They got caught. They got convicted of "attempt to defraud the U.S. Government." They are still serving prison terms for it. My ‘take’ on it: no amount of monthly VA Disability Benefits is worth the risk of getting caught trying to cheat Uncle Sam this way. Having said that, it still bothers me that when I was originally diagnosed on July 27, 1992, no one – and I mean **NO ONE** – ever bothered to let me know that I should then file a Claim based ON that diagnosis!! I didn’t get help from the VA to actually file the Claim until February of 1999!!! Six-and-a-half years of benefits I *could* have been drawing but was denied simply because the VA itself did not want me to file the Claim & start drawing the higher benefits I really deserved. The kicker was that under all guidelines I could find about this kind of tactic, there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it legally. The presumption being that I should have known enough about my VA benefits to know that I needed to file a new Claim. Did we or did we not put our lives on the line for our country over in Vietnam? Were we or were we not treated as War Criminals before, during, and after our tour of duty in Nam? Have we or have we not become "damaged goods" who must struggle on our own every single day just to keep from ‘losing it’ and taking out everyone around us? And have we or have we not felt totally abandoned by our own government officials who keep trying to sweep it all ‘under the rug’ to hide the truth that we & ‘they’ already know? While YMMV, as Nancy so accurately puts it, the original intent was to put us square pegs into those tiny round holes. And we never did/will/want to accept all these half-truths about us because we know the real truth. [Enter Lurk Mode]
Response:
Hi Wesley! > [Exit Lurk Mode]
Glad to see you again. > I’m also wondering why she states > that a C&P diagnosis does NOT result in "medical treatment."
That was my experience. I got medical treatment for PTSD without the C&P diagnosis for about 7 years. The C&P diagnosis is still ‘innaccurate’ in that it states I am bipolar; my pdoc says I am not because she has treated me for PTSD since 1991 and she has yet to see me manic. She refuses to treat me according to the C&P diagnosis. The C&P folks refuse to diagnose me as PTSD … and will do almost anything to avoid interviewing me again. ———————-snip ———————- > Having said that, it still bothers me that when I was originally > diagnosed on July 27, 1992, no one – and I mean **NO ONE** – ever > bothered to let me know that I should then file a Claim based ON that > diagnosis!! I didn’t get help from the VA to actually file the Claim > until February of 1999!!! Six-and-a-half years of benefits I *could* > have been drawing but was denied simply because the VA itself did not > want me to file the Claim & start drawing the higher benefits I really > deserved. The kicker was that under all guidelines I could find about > this kind of tactic, there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it > legally. The presumption being that I should have known enough about > my VA benefits to know that I needed to file a new Claim.
This is one of the problems with psych diagnoses. I have the same problem with the SSA. My award letter said something like: we consider you to have become disabled in 1991, but federal law states that we only pay you for the two years before you filed your initial claim. With PTSD the stress of filing claims is counterproductive to the medical treatment for PTSD. IOW, I think that I had to achieve a certain amount of recovery before I could file any claims. I have been sitting on a filing since last June, because, one more time it is freaking me out that I ‘have’, economically, to ask for help. I hate this feeling of dependence on the government because I wasn’t smart enough to understand the politics of the Vietnam war and ETS in time. OTOH, I am glad that I could serve my country, even though the CinC was Johnson. And, McNamara found 500,000 folks who needed to learn to read and write but could fire a rifle and be an llB. I work every day on being grateful for my life and the ‘good’ things I now have. My body just doesn’t feel grateful yet … just scared, still. YMMV > [Enter Lurk Mode]
Oh, please don’t. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
"Nancy" <ki…@coxinvalid.net> wrote in message
news:Xns940741F8073FFkipcocoxinvalidnet@68.1.17.6… > Hi Wesley! > > [Exit Lurk Mode] > Glad to see you again.
Good to be back. I guess. :-/ > > I’m also wondering why she states > > that a C&P diagnosis does NOT result in "medical treatment." > That was my experience. I got medical treatment for PTSD without the C&P > diagnosis for about 7 years. The C&P diagnosis is still ‘innaccurate’ in > that it states I am bipolar; my pdoc says I am not because she has treated > me for PTSD since 1991 and she has yet to see me manic. She refuses to > treat me according to the C&P diagnosis. The C&P folks refuse to diagnose > me as PTSD … and will do almost anything to avoid interviewing me again.
My apologies. My experience was different, I couldn’t get the treatment until after PTSD was diagnosed, which it was on July 27, 1992, right after the flashbacks. I’m sorry your C&P is still inaccurate. The bozos have no clue what we have to live through just to get a little help from them! Sounds like one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing, huh? Typical. Damn! Sounds like your PDoc’s on the right tack, contrary to the C&P eval. Can’t you convince him/her to apply some pressure to the C&P folks since you have NOT displayed any manic symptoms? Worth a shot, I think. I can’t guarantee it’ll work for you, Nancy, but you might consider what I did early last year (2002) to finally get my Claims approved. I drove to the Regional Office in Muskogee, a 5-hour drive one way, and showed up on their doorstep demanding to know when my Claim of February 8, 1999, was going to be adjudicated either way. Within 7 days, they approved my Claim all the way up to 80% Disabled, 20% for Unemployability, and 100% for "service connection" on all disabilities. They also backdated everything to that 1999 date for ‘back pay’ purposes, which was a nice bonus, believe me! Sometimes it works; sometimes it won’t. Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ———————-snip ———————- > > Having said that, it still bothers me that when I was originally > > diagnosed on July 27, 1992, no one – and I mean **NO ONE** – ever > > bothered to let me know that I should then file a Claim based ON that > > diagnosis!! I didn’t get help from the VA to actually file the Claim > > until February of 1999!!! Six-and-a-half years of benefits I *could* > > have been drawing but was denied simply because the VA itself did not > > want me to file the Claim & start drawing the higher benefits I really > > deserved. The kicker was that under all guidelines I could find about > > this kind of tactic, there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it > > legally. The presumption being that I should have known enough about > > my VA benefits to know that I needed to file a new Claim. > This is one of the problems with psych diagnoses. I have the same problem > with the SSA. My award letter said something like: we consider you to have > become disabled in 1991, but federal law states that we only pay you for > the two years before you filed your initial claim.
Yes, my award letter states something similar, backdating me to early 1999 while I was still working full-time for a Federal Agency in DC. The SSA has twice denied my Claim for disability benefits, stating that I’m not seriously enough disabled! That’s why I have a contingency fee lawyer on the case now. If we can’t win, he don’t get paid! You’re lucky that you even GOT the "2 years before" you filed! Most of the time, they will only backdate it to the DATE of your Claim, and nothing further back. You got a break there! Great! > With PTSD the stress of filing claims is counterproductive to the medical > treatment for PTSD. IOW, I think that I had to achieve a certain amount of > recovery before I could file any claims.
And isn’t that fairly typical of the manner in which they treat us all? But it stinks if you’re right about achieving a certain amount of recovery first; what are you supposed to do, heal yourself FIIRST and THEN file a Claim??? That is NOT a productive medical treatment for ANYthing, IMO! > I have been sitting on a filing since last June, because, one more time it > is freaking me out that I ‘have’, economically, to ask for help. I hate > this feeling of dependence on the government because I wasn’t smart enough > to understand the politics of the Vietnam war and ETS in time.
There weren’t very many of us ‘in-country’ Vets who could grasp those concepts, either, at least not at that time. It took me that entire 22 years – 1970 to 1992 – to find out the Truth about why we were sent there. I’ve since done enough research on my own that I am now almost ashamed to admit I was there. We were McNamara’s puppets on strings, dancing to his music, not our own. Hate it or not, though, if you’re *needing* the economic help from the VA, then that proves (to me) that you can’t earn a decent amount of ‘income’ because of your service injuries. Neither could I after ‘medically retiring’ in April of 1999, therefore filing the VA Claim was not really an ‘option’ for me, it was a necessity! Because you served you acquired certain ‘rights’ to the benefits available under current Federal Law. "Sitting" on that Claim isn’t going to help you until it’s actually filed. Please don’t concern yourself so much with the feeling of "dependence" on the gubmint; we **EARNED** these benefits!! It’s not like we’re trying to ‘mooch’ off the System or anything. We volunteered our very lives to serve this nation, and they OWE us something in return! > OTOH, I am glad that I could serve my country, even though the CinC was > Johnson. And, McNamara found 500,000 folks who needed to learn to read and > write but could fire a rifle and be an llB.
Yeah, wasn’t that neat?!? "Hey, you can’t read the UCMJ nor write your own name, but I bet you can fire this here rifle!! Say!! What about a ‘free’ trip overseas? Don’t that sound peachy-keen?!?" Sorry. Couldn’t resist that. Actually, I’m also glad I was able to serve my country through Johnson, Nixon, and Ford. (Or was that Carter?) You haven’t mentioned this concerning yourself, but I seriously tried making the Air Force a 20-year career until the financial crunch on an E-5 with a wife & child just got to be too much to deal with. My first year out, 1978, I made more as a Security Guard for an industrial plant in Houston than I would have as an E-5 with 10-plus years of service! But I wasn’t eligible for Food Stamps or other welfare-type programs while in service. That really sucked. > I work every day on being grateful for my life and the ‘good’ things I now > have. My body just doesn’t feel grateful yet … just scared, still. > YMMV
That’s ‘normal’, Nancy. Intellectually we can reach a point of satisfaction for where our lives have gone; I’m also grateful for all the incidents in my life, both good & bad, because they are all a part of who I am now. At the same time, however, those ‘bad’ things keep dredging up bad memories, too, which have recently re-surfaced when I’m asleep, but even THEY are a part of me. Without some of the bad things I’ve lived through, I would have made other choices at those times that would have drastically altered the tenor of my Life today. And not for the ‘good’, I’m afraid. Since the start of this year things in my Life have continued to prove to me that all of those events are necessary for me to have the fullness of Life I now enjoy. And no, my body doesn’t feel ‘grateful’, either! In fact, even with the pain meds this morning, I’m hovering just above a 6 on that Triage Pain Scale, which makes it very difficult to even get another cup of coffee, much less perform more strenuous tasks. Still, I’m alive another day, thank God, and looks like I’ll keep on waking up for a good while yet to come. You might consider trying to make the pain your ‘friend’, Nancy. It tells you you’re still living! It hurts, yes, but it is possible to look upon it in a positive manner if one just tries hard enough. YMMV > > [Enter Lurk Mode] > Oh, please don’t. > Smile and there will be something to smile about! > Nancy
Perhaps I won’t. Earlier this year things happened (which I won’t detail just yet) that have brought about a dramatic change in our (my & Anita’s) daily routines, changes for the good. While we both are still deteriorating physically, we have gained much pleasure with our kids/grandkids now close enough to see daily. But it also helped depress me enough for a short while there that I literally did enter Lurk Mode on just about everything! I feel a ‘need’ to be there for my kids/grandkids, but this damaged body prevents as much interaction with them as I would wish. Today, for example, the cool fronts the past 10 days have me hurting worse than ‘normal’ for me, so I’m unable to even drive Anita to her neurologist’s appointment earlier this afternoon. Good thing her MS pains eased up so she could drive herself! It’s quite depressing to think of oneself as NOT useful any longer just because the body won’t follow the orders of the brain. Now that I’m lurking on more than a dozen NG’s again, it’s getting a bit easier to leave Lurk long enough to respond to something pertinent posted by others. Such as yours here. I may not respond to many posts here, either, because it also depresses me when I’m unable to help someone who’s clearly hurting badly. Sometimes it’s just better if I remain in Lurk Mode; sometimes it’s not. We shall see. Wes…
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