Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -RisaCaitlin wrote: > >It may just be me, but I find the lack of > >discussion here a little controlling. > Who do you think is controlling the discussion here? It’s not a moderated > group, so the only limit on the length of a topic is everyone’s desire or > willingness to continue discussing it. > >It’s been a > >long time since I was in group therapy, but it > >strikes me odd that people limit themselves to one > >post, or a quick follow up, and then the > >discussion dies. > It strikes me as odd that you would compare this forum to group therapy. Is > that what you think this support forum is? There are other factors here that > don’t enter into a face-to-face discussion group: elapsed time of a discussion; > number of people who are "here", including those who mostly lurk; having > someone accessible for emergency intervention, et cetera. > Discussions fade out when people feel threatened, lack interest, don’t have > time to participate, or find something more intriguing. I assume that most > people don’t spend all day, every day reading here. I also assume that other > people have resources in real life to continue discussions with; people who > know them and who they know and trust as much as anyone. > Risa > Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons because > you are crunchy and you taste good with ketchup.
Risa, I am sorry. I never intended to anger, or insult anyone. Quite the opposite. I was hoping to get people talking. Anyway, being controlling is being human — it’s the nature of the beast. Even people without ptsd do it. As for group therapy, the reason I mentioned that was that support groups should, at some level, function the same way. Without the immediate and intimate ties to the participants people get to test their skills and ideas in a safe (but not trigger-free) environment. Did you have any comments on accessing treatment, forgiveness, etc.?
Response:
Crafty Bernardo wrote: > I am not willing to let go of anything unless the other parties have > acknowledged what they have done. Read "Toxic Parents", the notion of > forgiveness isn’t universal. I have been slammed too badly by being a > *nice guy* and believing that things will turn out OK. Karma is just > another thing we wish was true. Continuing to generate positivism in > the face of it all, with no expectation of it returning is the > challenge, as I see it and that is how I chose to operate in this > lifetime. > Rick
Toxic parents is interesting. It seems more of a therapeutic exercise for the author. I especially grimaced when she gave her suggestions for dealing with someone who is angry, and not talkative — "when you’ve finished punishing me, I’ll be here to talk."
Response:
Crafty Bernardo wrote: > I am not willing to let go of anything unless the other parties have > acknowledged what they have done. Read "Toxic Parents", the notion of > forgiveness isn’t universal. I have been slammed too badly by being a > *nice guy* and believing that things will turn out OK. Karma is just > another thing we wish was true. Continuing to generate positivism in > the face of it all, with no expectation of it returning is the > challenge, as I see it and that is how I chose to operate in this > lifetime.
At least we agree that forgiveness is a choice. One that you aren’t prepared to make at this point. That’s fine. If only the price of not "letting go" wasn’t so high… All that anger has to go somewhere. In my case, it became depression. Would you advise other people to forgive, if they asked for your feedback in a similar situation? (Not reply necessary.)
Response:
Hi Ron, I feel from your post that you like to be in control.For instance there are few posts that you are not responding to.Seems to be that you are in constant discussion with someone or many in this group. Don’t get me wrong I am not critisising you merely observing. Lurkers and posters post privately to ptsders and quite often .It is human nature to relate more to one or a few people which you feel a sympatico. You yourself once mentioned that you had made a new best friend since joining discussions here on the ng. Remember it is not a moderated group.The FAQ thing has come up on a number of occassions over the past year.It seems that folks here are happy the way the ng operates for now.:)Sometimes it is very quiet.I am mostly a lurker but should I feel guilty?I put myself through enough of that shit. You could start your own group with the whole "shabang" of suggestions you have mentioned already a few times. I get the feeling that you are continually searching for more and what support you are getting is never enough.Good luck to you for not "giving up".None of us has here that is why we are here. Being competitive and driven are positive traits to own if directed in a positive manner which is still mindful of the others who are not. Helski
Response:
helski wrote: > Hi Ron, > I feel from your post that you like to be in control.For instance there are > few posts that you are not responding to.Seems to be that you are in > constant discussion with someone or many in this group. > Don’t get me wrong I am not critisising you merely observing. > Lurkers and posters post privately to ptsders and quite often .It is human > nature to relate more to one or a few people which you feel a sympatico. > You yourself once mentioned that you had made a new best friend since > joining discussions here on the ng.
I’d say you’re off the mark in your analysis/obervation slightly, but that doesn’t matter. You’re right. I try to respond to every post. I think I have something to say that may be of help. If not to the poster, then to a lurker. I want to talk about these issues that affect us. I don’t know of another place to do that. It’s also one of my coping strategies. > Remember it is not a moderated group.The FAQ thing has come up on a number > of occassions over the past year.It seems that folks here are happy the way > the ng operates for now.:)Sometimes it is very quiet.I am mostly a lurker > but should I feel guilty?I put myself through enough of that shit. > You could start your own group with the whole "shabang" of suggestions you > have mentioned already a few times.
I’ve only been here since October (I think). Forgive me for not knowing these ideas have been discussed. I didn’t want you to feel guilty, or to have to tolerate "shit." > I get the feeling that you are continually searching for more and what > support you are getting is never enough.Good luck to you for not "giving > up".None of us has here that is why we are here.
Does that really matter, even if it were true? (Rhetorical) I’m hoping to have a lot of support. From a wide variety of people, and experiences. Isn’t that the point to modeling? > Being competitive and driven are positive traits to own if directed in a > positive manner which is still mindful of the others who are not.
Guilty as charged. Mindful — you mean controlling. I just don’t see it any other way. I’m not supposed to write what I think because someone else might be bothered by it. Other people are at risk of becoming angry so my ideas may be better elsewhere. I’m hoping one or two people will be interested in a few discussions.
Response:
Hi Ron, Thanks for your quick response. By now you are aware( since October or whenever) that your discussions and observations and analogies can cause a slew of emotional responses. I am not suggesting that you do not write. I think it fair to say that you are looking for shared experiences and support but debating is a pasttime of yours also. Pushing for more answers to questions is not always a facility or capability the other posters have on a given day or topic for many a reason. I guess what I am saying is that you should be aware of our differences ( I am sure you are) and that where and how you are and how you got there and where you are going is most definately different to others. Having said that I know that you are here to give support as well as receive it. Helski
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -helski wrote: > Hi Ron, > Thanks for your quick response. > By now you are aware( since October or whenever) that your discussions and > observations and analogies can cause a slew of emotional responses. > I am not suggesting that you do not write. > I think it fair to say that you are looking for shared experiences and > support but debating is a pasttime of yours also. > Pushing for more answers to questions is not always a facility or capability > the other posters have on a given day or topic for many a reason. > I guess what I am saying is that you should be aware of our differences ( I > am sure you are) and that where and how you are and how you got there and > where you are going is most definately different to others. > Having said that I know that you are here to give support as well as receive > it.
Thanks. And I haven’t ignored what was said to me. I’ve been careful not to pose questions. Not to be demanding for responses. To write about my thoughts and feelings. I haven’t personalized any responses, nor reacted to them that way either. On a side note though, you really don’t understand a fellow sufferer if you think any of what I write, or why, is about debating, or being in control, or competition. I know why I won’t walk away, or be bullied from this ng. The answer that I came up with is something I think I can try to take a little pride in. At any rate, I hope you’ll join a discussion now and then.
Response:
Ron wrote:
On a side note though, you really don’t understand a fellow sufferer if you think any of what I write, or why, is about debating, or being in control, or competition. I know why I won’t walk away, or be bullied from this ng. The answer that I came up with is something I think I can try to take a little pride in. > Congratulations and good for you.
You are not being bullied and there is no need to walk away. You give as good as you get in the "words dept".Being defensive is a pretty "normal" ptsd reaction. I hope you continue to get the support you are seeking here. As for me………………….unfortunately I understand too well a fellow sufferer.:( Helski
Response:
Quasi wrote: > Well, on forgiveness, I’ve learned that I can only forgive when I can get > over the anger and hurt. And sometime after that I can see why something > happened. It usually isn’t rational or fair that it happened, but I can see > how it happened. Most of the things that happened to me directly cause by > the limits of the people involved. While there was no excuse for my trauma, > I can see that the people who caused it are also traumatized. Cycle of > abuse….And I agree with Ron, for me it’s letting go of the personal > feeling that it left me with.
I find it to be a great sense of control over life. All the depressions that I’ve been through, triggered by people close to me. Finding that I was starting to feel better, getting out of bed, talking again. But it was never anything that I did, at least what I could see. Anger is a killer. I haven’t had much luck at just choosing to forgive someone, so now I just put my energy into taking myself out of the equation.
Response:
>It may just be me, but I find the lack of >discussion here a little controlling.
Who do you think is controlling the discussion here? It’s not a moderated group, so the only limit on the length of a topic is everyone’s desire or willingness to continue discussing it. >It’s been a >long time since I was in group therapy, but it >strikes me odd that people limit themselves to one >post, or a quick follow up, and then the >discussion dies.
It strikes me as odd that you would compare this forum to group therapy. Is that what you think this support forum is? There are other factors here that don’t enter into a face-to-face discussion group: elapsed time of a discussion; number of people who are "here", including those who mostly lurk; having someone accessible for emergency intervention, et cetera. Discussions fade out when people feel threatened, lack interest, don’t have time to participate, or find something more intriguing. I assume that most people don’t spend all day, every day reading here. I also assume that other people have resources in real life to continue discussions with; people who know them and who they know and trust as much as anyone. Risa Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons because you are crunchy and you taste good with ketchup.
Response:
Well, on forgiveness, I’ve learned that I can only forgive when I can get over the anger and hurt. And sometime after that I can see why something happened. It usually isn’t rational or fair that it happened, but I can see how it happened. Most of the things that happened to me directly cause by the limits of the people involved. While there was no excuse for my trauma, I can see that the people who caused it are also traumatized. Cycle of abuse….And I agree with Ron, for me it’s letting go of the personal feeling that it left me with. Marc "Ron Nicholson" <ba…@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A3DB6B4.246B4DEE@home.com… | It may just be me, but I find the lack of | discussion here a little controlling. It’s been a | long time since I was in group therapy, but it | strikes me odd that people limit themselves to one | post, or a quick follow up, and then the | discussion dies. There have been some great | opportunities here recently for discussion, and | they dropped off as quickly as they came. | | From Rick — accessing treatment when geography | (or finances) is prohibitive. | | From Kris — when it’s time to move on from a | therapist, or technique. | | From Bonnie — forgiveness. | | Any feedback?
Response:
Hi Ron! > It may just be me, but I find the lack of > discussion here a little controlling. It’s been a > long time since I was in group therapy, but it > strikes me odd that people limit themselves to one > post, or a quick follow up, and then the > discussion dies
Well, let’s see. The lack of follow-up could result from folks: isolating, fearing, hiding, confused, unable to concentrate, etc. Sounds to me like PTSD symptoms. :/ Lack of discussion =?= controlling. I don’t think so. I think that it has more to do with hypervigilance and fear. We all have a great fear of flame wars apparently as ng posts go to zero for weeks on end after a flame war. No one wants to be the object of one of those for their belief system. YMMV Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nancy wrote: > Hi Ron! > > It may just be me, but I find the lack of > > discussion here a little controlling. It’s been a > > long time since I was in group therapy, but it > > strikes me odd that people limit themselves to one > > post, or a quick follow up, and then the > > discussion dies > Well, let’s see. > The lack of follow-up could result from folks: isolating, fearing, hiding, > confused, unable to concentrate, etc. > Sounds to me like PTSD symptoms. :/ > Lack of discussion =?= controlling. I don’t think so. > I think that it has more to do with hypervigilance and fear. We all have a > great fear of flame wars apparently as ng posts go to zero for weeks on end > after a flame war. No one wants to be the object of one of those for their > belief system.
Hey Nancy, That’s what controlling is, at least according to my therapist. It’s an attempt to stop feeling a certain way by controlling the environment, other people, or our own actions. There isn’t a need to be controlling if we aren’t afraid. Every time I click reply I get anxious. Am I going to set someone off? Will they be angry again? Will I lose my temper again? Will I feel singled out?!? My hope is that we can be a lot more helpful and supportive to each other. To really get some ideas out. One of the biggest problems, for me, is getting stuck in what I call a "loop" of my own thinking. When I hear what other people have to say, well, when I start to talk it amazes me because the things I say are not the things that normally I hear in my own head. My point, I guess, is that I don’t want to control how I feel anymore. It’s too much energy. It takes away from living. I was thinking of some other ideas recently. What about posting a Frequently Asked Questions article? Information about ptsd, medications, physical symptoms, sleep disturbance — from our perspective. I’ve been contacted by 3 lurkers in the past 2 months. People are reading. I completely understand about having bad days, but I think on those moderate days we might try to be there a little more. At least a discussion helps in breaking isolation. Getting the perspective from other people is sometimes helpful when feeling confused. As helpful as therapy has been, being exposed to ptsd-ers — people like me — has made the biggest difference.
Response:
It may just be me, but I find the lack of discussion here a little controlling. It’s been a long time since I was in group therapy, but it strikes me odd that people limit themselves to one post, or a quick follow up, and then the discussion dies. There have been some great opportunities here recently for discussion, and they dropped off as quickly as they came. From Rick — accessing treatment when geography (or finances) is prohibitive. From Kris — when it’s time to move on from a therapist, or technique. From Bonnie — forgiveness. Any feedback?
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