- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H? I am not hyperactive (this is called AD/HD inattentive subtype). Interestingly, you will find most discussion of non-hyperactive ADD in books and articles about girls and women with ADD – because they are more likely to be inattentive, while men and boys are more likely to be hyperactive.  My daughter, though, is classic hyperactive. Yes, many of the same treatments work.  Stimulents usually work for both types, and exercise is often helpful.

Oddly, our friend gave the book to my wife feeling that she was a classic case of ADHD.  Reading the book myself, I agree.  However, I found that alot of what was said applied to my own case as well.  I had never considered the possibility before because I did not have the frenetic personality or the history of discipline problems that I had associated with ADHD. I know people read books about disorders and inevitably diagnose themselves with them.  But I’m the opposite of a hypocondriac – I don’t believe anything is wrong until there is no way to deny that it is  The book I read however mentions that the criteria for diagnosis is in the degree of severity – if its severe enough to impair functioning, it may be ADD.  Well my functioning is definitely impaired. Between my wife and myself, we have a boat load of trouble with daily life.  Topping it off, we have an autistic son.  Anyway, thanks for the feeback.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H? What you’re describing is ADHD-Inattentive.  The meds do help with the inattentive form, if that is in fact what you have.  The trouble is there are a lot of other conditions that can produce similar symptoms. Its all mental .. Elevated iron levels in the body are KNOWN to decrease dopamine in the brain. Phytic acid is NOW being used to ‘treat’ dopamine disorders / addictions. Iron destroys tocopherol .. which causes anemia.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Who loves ya. Tom http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/watchman

I don’t really get your meaning.  What are D2 receptors?  Whats Phytic acid?  Why do they lead you to say its all mental, and what does that even mean?

Response:

I know people read books about disorders and inevitably diagnose themselves with them.  But I’m the opposite of a hypocondriac – I don’t believe anything is wrong until there is no way to deny that it is  The book I read however mentions that the criteria for diagnosis is in the degree of severity – if its severe enough to impair functioning, it may be ADD.  Well my functioning is definitely impaired.

Dr. Daniel Amen’s web site has an "ADD subtype checklist" and an "Adult ADD checklist" that you might find helpful. http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/ Nancy Unique, like everyone else

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know people read books about disorders and inevitably diagnose themselves with them.  But I’m the opposite of a hypocondriac – I don’t believe anything is wrong until there is no way to deny that it is  The book I read however mentions that the criteria for diagnosis is in the degree of severity – if its severe enough to impair functioning, it may be ADD.  Well my functioning is definitely impaired. Dr. Daniel Amen’s web site has an "ADD subtype checklist" and an "Adult ADD checklist" that you might find helpful. http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/ Nancy Unique, like everyone else

Thanks for the link.  I aced that test!  Highly Probably Inattentive ADD, Highly Probable Limbic ADD, Suspected Temporal Lobe ADD.  Lucky me.

Response:

I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H?

Response:

I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H?

I am not hyperactive (this is called AD/HD inattentive subtype). Interestingly, you will find most discussion of non-hyperactive ADD in books and articles about girls and women with ADD – because they are more likely to be inattentive, while men and boys are more likely to be hyperactive.  My daughter, though, is classic hyperactive. Yes, many of the same treatments work.  Stimulents usually work for both types, and exercise is often helpful.

Response:

I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H?

What you’re describing is ADHD-Inattentive.  The meds do help with the inattentive form, if that is in fact what you have.  The trouble is there are a lot of other conditions that can produce similar symptoms. — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H? What you’re describing is ADHD-Inattentive.  The meds do help with the inattentive form, if that is in fact what you have.  The trouble is there are a lot of other conditions that can produce similar symptoms.

Its all mental .. Elevated iron levels in the body are KNOWN to decrease dopamine in the brain. Phytic acid is NOW being used to ‘treat’ dopamine disorders / addictions. Iron destroys tocopherol .. which causes anemia.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Who loves ya. Tom http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/watchman Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H?

Sure, that’s sometimes called "inattentive" ADD. Noticeable hyperactivity is often not present in teens and adults, though feelings of restlessness are common. Treatments are, and should be, always individually tailored, but they don’t differ just because the "H" is present or absent. Lots of other conditions can look like ADD, so diagnosis by a good clinician is essential. The books by Hallowell and Ratey (Driven to Distraction, Answers to Distraction) are good starting points. There are some other titles, such as Adventures in Fast Forward, that deal specifically with adult ADD. And there are lots of adult ADD folks on this newsgroup, despite the best efforts of the trolls, cranks, and flamebaiters. — Chris Green

Response:

Please be kind enough to post a cite in which it has been demonstrated that some regimen involving iron or the control or reduction thereof has proven to be beneficial in the treatment of ADHD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but you won’t find many people less organized than me.  Bills unpaid, house a mess, deadlines missed, important papers lost, the works. Recently a friend gave my wife and I a book that makes me wonder whether ADD might be involved.  However, nearly all information I’ve found on the subject describes ADD with hyperactivity.  I’d like to find out more about ADD without hyperactivity.  If anyone can point me to some good info on this, I’d be grateful.  In particular, do the treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H? What you’re describing is ADHD-Inattentive.  The meds do help with the inattentive form, if that is in fact what you have.  The trouble is there are a lot of other conditions that can produce similar symptoms. Its all mental .. Elevated iron levels in the body are KNOWN to decrease dopamine in the brain. Phytic acid is NOW being used to ‘treat’ dopamine disorders / addictions. Iron destroys tocopherol .. which causes anemia.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Who loves ya. Tom http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/watchman Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

– — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I’m not hyperactive – if anything I’m hypoactive – but [...snip...] treatements for ADHD also work with ADD-no-H? Sure, that’s sometimes called "inattentive" ADD. Noticeable hyperactivity is often not present in teens and adults, though feelings of restlessness are common. Treatments are, and should be, always individually tailored, but they don’t differ just because the "H" is present or absent. Lots of other conditions can look like ADD, so diagnosis by a good clinician is essential. The books by Hallowell and Ratey (Driven to Distraction, Answers to Distraction) are good starting points. There are some other titles, such as Adventures in Fast Forward, that deal specifically with adult ADD. And there are lots of adult ADD folks on this newsgroup, despite the best efforts of the trolls, cranks, and flamebaiters.

Thanks for the suggestions.  The book I read (can’t remember the title) mentions non-hyperactive ADD, but talks about it only briefly. I’m not at all certain that I fit into the ADD profile, but I have some kind of crazy, and I’m hoping to give it a name  Now if I could just get my act togethor to actually find a doctor and go see him.

Response:

Woohoo kick that wolf’s ass…. Glad to hear it…  Did you convince him to become a vegan?????   LOL Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was a good read. So Tom how’s it going with you? Wolf came and left .. and worse for wear .. Who loves ya. Tom Mike I was wondering if anyone CRAVES .. over here .. on this .. ng .. Sorry about that .. it was meant for diabetes .. BUT .. I suppose it might make for an interesting read in any case .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Could it be due to the lack of ability to utilize .. glucose ..? As evidenced in this article ..    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Reward deficiency syndrome: a biogenetic model for the diagnosis and treatment of impulsive, addictive, and compulsive behaviors.     Blum K, Braverman ER, Holder JM, Lubar JF, Monastra VJ, Miller D, Lubar JO,     Chen TJ, Comings DE    Department of Biological Sciences, University of North Texas, Denton,    Texas, USA.    The dopaminergic system, and in particular the dopamine D2 receptor,    has been implicated in reward mechanisms. The net effect of    neurotransmitter interaction at the mesolimbic brain region induces    "reward" when dopamine (DA) is released from the neuron at the nucleus    accumbens and interacts with a dopamine D2 receptor. "The reward    cascade" involves the release of serotonin, which in turn at the    hypothalmus stimulates enkephalin, which in turn inhibits GABA at the    substania nigra, which in turn fine tunes the amount of DA released at    the nucleus accumbens or "reward site." It is well known that under    normal conditions in the reward site DA works to maintain our normal    drives. In fact, DA has become to be known as the "pleasure molecule"    and/or the "antistress molecule." When DA is released into the    synapse, it stimulates a number a DA receptors (D1-D5) which results    in increased feelings of well-being and stress reduction. A consensus    of the literature suggests that when there is a dysfunction in the    brain reward cascade, which could be caused by certain genetic    variants (polygenic), especially in the DA system causing a    hypodopaminergic trait, the brain of that person requires a DA fix to    feel good. This trait leads to multiple drug-seeking behavior. This is    so because alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, nicotine, and glucose    all cause activation and neuronal release of brain DA, which could    heal the abnormal cravings. Certainly after ten years of study we    could say with confidence that carriers of the DAD2 receptor A1 allele    have compromised D2 receptors.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    In order to explain the breakdown of the reward cascade due to both    multiple genes and environmental stimuli (pleiotropism) and resultant    aberrant behaviors, Blum united this hypodopaminergic trait under the    rubric of a reward deficiency syndrome.    Publication Types:      * Review      * Review, academic    PMID: 11280926, UI: 21177392    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Since tocopherol .. vitamin E .. was consider to be all but .. if not a cure for diabetes .. this article seems interesting in light of the above article and lack of dopamine and glucose dispersal .. ?    Neuroscience 2000;101(4):1029-36 Decreased messenger RNA expression of key markers of the nigrostriatal dopaminergic system following vitamin E deficiency in the rat.     Romero-Ramos M, Venero JL, Santiago M, Rodriguez-Gomez JA, Vizuete ML, Cano     J, Machado A    Departamento de Bioquimica, Bromatologia, Toxicologia y Medicina    Legal, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Sevilla, Calle Profesor    Garcia Gonzalez s/n, 41012, Sevilla, Spain.    We have evaluated the effect of a vitamin E-deficient diet on the rat    nigrostriatal dopaminergic system. After 15 days of deficient diet,    the amount and activity of striatal and nigral tyrosine hydroxylase    increased, which contrasted with a decreased messenger RNA expression    for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine transporter in the ventral    mesencephalon. When we prolonged the deficiency of vitamin E for 30    days, dopamine levels did not differ in both areas. In contrast,    messenger RNA levels for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine    transporter were markedly reduced in 30-day deficient rats. In    addition, the number of oxidatively modified proteins significantly    increased in the striatal and nigral areas studied. Overall, we    propose that these changes suggest an important role of vitamin E in    maintaining the normal equilibrium of the dopaminergic nigrostriatal    system.    PMID: 11113352, UI: 20565894    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

It was a good read. So Tom how’s it going with you?

Wolf came and left .. and worse for wear .. Who loves ya. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike I was wondering if anyone CRAVES .. over here .. on this .. ng .. Sorry about that .. it was meant for diabetes .. BUT .. I suppose it might make for an interesting read in any case .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Could it be due to the lack of ability to utilize .. glucose ..? As evidenced in this article ..    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Reward deficiency syndrome: a biogenetic model for the diagnosis and treatment of impulsive, addictive, and compulsive behaviors.     Blum K, Braverman ER, Holder JM, Lubar JF, Monastra VJ, Miller D, Lubar JO,     Chen TJ, Comings DE    Department of Biological Sciences, University of North Texas, Denton,    Texas, USA.    The dopaminergic system, and in particular the dopamine D2 receptor,    has been implicated in reward mechanisms. The net effect of    neurotransmitter interaction at the mesolimbic brain region induces    "reward" when dopamine (DA) is released from the neuron at the nucleus    accumbens and interacts with a dopamine D2 receptor. "The reward    cascade" involves the release of serotonin, which in turn at the    hypothalmus stimulates enkephalin, which in turn inhibits GABA at the    substania nigra, which in turn fine tunes the amount of DA released at    the nucleus accumbens or "reward site." It is well known that under    normal conditions in the reward site DA works to maintain our normal    drives. In fact, DA has become to be known as the "pleasure molecule"    and/or the "antistress molecule." When DA is released into the    synapse, it stimulates a number a DA receptors (D1-D5) which results    in increased feelings of well-being and stress reduction. A consensus    of the literature suggests that when there is a dysfunction in the    brain reward cascade, which could be caused by certain genetic    variants (polygenic), especially in the DA system causing a    hypodopaminergic trait, the brain of that person requires a DA fix to    feel good. This trait leads to multiple drug-seeking behavior. This is    so because alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, nicotine, and glucose    all cause activation and neuronal release of brain DA, which could    heal the abnormal cravings. Certainly after ten years of study we    could say with confidence that carriers of the DAD2 receptor A1 allele    have compromised D2 receptors.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    In order to explain the breakdown of the reward cascade due to both    multiple genes and environmental stimuli (pleiotropism) and resultant    aberrant behaviors, Blum united this hypodopaminergic trait under the    rubric of a reward deficiency syndrome.    Publication Types:      * Review      * Review, academic    PMID: 11280926, UI: 21177392    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Since tocopherol .. vitamin E .. was consider to be all but .. if not a cure for diabetes .. this article seems interesting in light of the above article and lack of dopamine and glucose dispersal .. ?    Neuroscience 2000;101(4):1029-36 Decreased messenger RNA expression of key markers of the nigrostriatal dopaminergic system following vitamin E deficiency in the rat.     Romero-Ramos M, Venero JL, Santiago M, Rodriguez-Gomez JA, Vizuete ML, Cano     J, Machado A    Departamento de Bioquimica, Bromatologia, Toxicologia y Medicina    Legal, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Sevilla, Calle Profesor    Garcia Gonzalez s/n, 41012, Sevilla, Spain.    We have evaluated the effect of a vitamin E-deficient diet on the rat    nigrostriatal dopaminergic system. After 15 days of deficient diet,    the amount and activity of striatal and nigral tyrosine hydroxylase    increased, which contrasted with a decreased messenger RNA expression    for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine transporter in the ventral    mesencephalon. When we prolonged the deficiency of vitamin E for 30    days, dopamine levels did not differ in both areas. In contrast,    messenger RNA levels for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine    transporter were markedly reduced in 30-day deficient rats. In    addition, the number of oxidatively modified proteins significantly    increased in the striatal and nigral areas studied. Overall, we    propose that these changes suggest an important role of vitamin E in    maintaining the normal equilibrium of the dopaminergic nigrostriatal    system.    PMID: 11113352, UI: 20565894    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

– Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

It was a good read. So Tom how’s it going with you? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone CRAVES .. over here .. on this .. ng .. Sorry about that .. it was meant for diabetes .. BUT .. I suppose it might make for an interesting read in any case .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Could it be due to the lack of ability to utilize .. glucose ..? As evidenced in this article ..    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Reward deficiency syndrome: a biogenetic model for the diagnosis and treatment of impulsive, addictive, and compulsive behaviors.     Blum K, Braverman ER, Holder JM, Lubar JF, Monastra VJ, Miller D, Lubar JO,     Chen TJ, Comings DE    Department of Biological Sciences, University of North Texas, Denton,    Texas, USA.    The dopaminergic system, and in particular the dopamine D2 receptor,    has been implicated in reward mechanisms. The net effect of    neurotransmitter interaction at the mesolimbic brain region induces    "reward" when dopamine (DA) is released from the neuron at the nucleus    accumbens and interacts with a dopamine D2 receptor. "The reward    cascade" involves the release of serotonin, which in turn at the    hypothalmus stimulates enkephalin, which in turn inhibits GABA at the    substania nigra, which in turn fine tunes the amount of DA released at    the nucleus accumbens or "reward site." It is well known that under    normal conditions in the reward site DA works to maintain our normal    drives. In fact, DA has become to be known as the "pleasure molecule"    and/or the "antistress molecule." When DA is released into the    synapse, it stimulates a number a DA receptors (D1-D5) which results    in increased feelings of well-being and stress reduction. A consensus    of the literature suggests that when there is a dysfunction in the    brain reward cascade, which could be caused by certain genetic    variants (polygenic), especially in the DA system causing a    hypodopaminergic trait, the brain of that person requires a DA fix to    feel good. This trait leads to multiple drug-seeking behavior. This is    so because alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, nicotine, and glucose    all cause activation and neuronal release of brain DA, which could    heal the abnormal cravings. Certainly after ten years of study we    could say with confidence that carriers of the DAD2 receptor A1 allele    have compromised D2 receptors.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    In order to explain the breakdown of the reward cascade due to both    multiple genes and environmental stimuli (pleiotropism) and resultant    aberrant behaviors, Blum united this hypodopaminergic trait under the    rubric of a reward deficiency syndrome.    Publication Types:      * Review      * Review, academic    PMID: 11280926, UI: 21177392    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Since tocopherol .. vitamin E .. was consider to be all but .. if not a cure for diabetes .. this article seems interesting in light of the above article and lack of dopamine and glucose dispersal .. ?    Neuroscience 2000;101(4):1029-36 Decreased messenger RNA expression of key markers of the nigrostriatal dopaminergic system following vitamin E deficiency in the rat.     Romero-Ramos M, Venero JL, Santiago M, Rodriguez-Gomez JA, Vizuete ML, Cano     J, Machado A    Departamento de Bioquimica, Bromatologia, Toxicologia y Medicina    Legal, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Sevilla, Calle Profesor    Garcia Gonzalez s/n, 41012, Sevilla, Spain.    We have evaluated the effect of a vitamin E-deficient diet on the rat    nigrostriatal dopaminergic system. After 15 days of deficient diet,    the amount and activity of striatal and nigral tyrosine hydroxylase    increased, which contrasted with a decreased messenger RNA expression    for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine transporter in the ventral    mesencephalon. When we prolonged the deficiency of vitamin E for 30    days, dopamine levels did not differ in both areas. In contrast,    messenger RNA levels for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine    transporter were markedly reduced in 30-day deficient rats. In    addition, the number of oxidatively modified proteins significantly    increased in the striatal and nigral areas studied. Overall, we    propose that these changes suggest an important role of vitamin E in    maintaining the normal equilibrium of the dopaminergic nigrostriatal    system.    PMID: 11113352, UI: 20565894    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

I was wondering if anyone CRAVES .. over here .. on this .. ng ..

Sorry about that .. it was meant for diabetes .. BUT .. I suppose it might make for an interesting read in any case .. ? Who loves ya. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be due to the lack of ability to utilize .. glucose ..? As evidenced in this article ..    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Reward deficiency syndrome: a biogenetic model for the diagnosis and treatment of impulsive, addictive, and compulsive behaviors.     Blum K, Braverman ER, Holder JM, Lubar JF, Monastra VJ, Miller D, Lubar JO,     Chen TJ, Comings DE    Department of Biological Sciences, University of North Texas, Denton,    Texas, USA.    The dopaminergic system, and in particular the dopamine D2 receptor,    has been implicated in reward mechanisms. The net effect of    neurotransmitter interaction at the mesolimbic brain region induces    "reward" when dopamine (DA) is released from the neuron at the nucleus    accumbens and interacts with a dopamine D2 receptor. "The reward    cascade" involves the release of serotonin, which in turn at the    hypothalmus stimulates enkephalin, which in turn inhibits GABA at the    substania nigra, which in turn fine tunes the amount of DA released at    the nucleus accumbens or "reward site." It is well known that under    normal conditions in the reward site DA works to maintain our normal    drives. In fact, DA has become to be known as the "pleasure molecule"    and/or the "antistress molecule." When DA is released into the    synapse, it stimulates a number a DA receptors (D1-D5) which results    in increased feelings of well-being and stress reduction. A consensus    of the literature suggests that when there is a dysfunction in the    brain reward cascade, which could be caused by certain genetic    variants (polygenic), especially in the DA system causing a    hypodopaminergic trait, the brain of that person requires a DA fix to    feel good. This trait leads to multiple drug-seeking behavior. This is    so because alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, nicotine, and glucose    all cause activation and neuronal release of brain DA, which could    heal the abnormal cravings. Certainly after ten years of study we    could say with confidence that carriers of the DAD2 receptor A1 allele    have compromised D2 receptors.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    In order to explain the breakdown of the reward cascade due to both    multiple genes and environmental stimuli (pleiotropism) and resultant    aberrant behaviors, Blum united this hypodopaminergic trait under the    rubric of a reward deficiency syndrome.    Publication Types:      * Review      * Review, academic    PMID: 11280926, UI: 21177392    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Since tocopherol .. vitamin E .. was consider to be all but .. if not a cure for diabetes .. this article seems interesting in light of the above article and lack of dopamine and glucose dispersal .. ?    Neuroscience 2000;101(4):1029-36 Decreased messenger RNA expression of key markers of the nigrostriatal dopaminergic system following vitamin E deficiency in the rat.     Romero-Ramos M, Venero JL, Santiago M, Rodriguez-Gomez JA, Vizuete ML, Cano     J, Machado A    Departamento de Bioquimica, Bromatologia, Toxicologia y Medicina    Legal, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Sevilla, Calle Profesor    Garcia Gonzalez s/n, 41012, Sevilla, Spain.    We have evaluated the effect of a vitamin E-deficient diet on the rat    nigrostriatal dopaminergic system. After 15 days of deficient diet,    the amount and activity of striatal and nigral tyrosine hydroxylase    increased, which contrasted with a decreased messenger RNA expression    for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine transporter in the ventral    mesencephalon. When we prolonged the deficiency of vitamin E for 30    days, dopamine levels did not differ in both areas. In contrast,    messenger RNA levels for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine    transporter were markedly reduced in 30-day deficient rats. In    addition, the number of oxidatively modified proteins significantly    increased in the striatal and nigral areas studied. Overall, we    propose that these changes suggest an important role of vitamin E in    maintaining the normal equilibrium of the dopaminergic nigrostriatal    system.    PMID: 11113352, UI: 20565894    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

– Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

I was wondering if anyone CRAVES .. over here .. on this .. ng .. Could it be due to the lack of ability to utilize .. glucose ..? As evidenced in this article ..    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    J Psychoactive Drugs 2000 Nov;32 Suppl:i-iv, 1-112 Reward deficiency syndrome: a biogenetic model for the diagnosis and treatment of impulsive, addictive, and compulsive behaviors.     Blum K, Braverman ER, Holder JM, Lubar JF, Monastra VJ, Miller D, Lubar JO,     Chen TJ, Comings DE    Department of Biological Sciences, University of North Texas, Denton,    Texas, USA.    The dopaminergic system, and in particular the dopamine D2 receptor,    has been implicated in reward mechanisms. The net effect of    neurotransmitter interaction at the mesolimbic brain region induces    "reward" when dopamine (DA) is released from the neuron at the nucleus    accumbens and interacts with a dopamine D2 receptor. "The reward    cascade" involves the release of serotonin, which in turn at the    hypothalmus stimulates enkephalin, which in turn inhibits GABA at the    substania nigra, which in turn fine tunes the amount of DA released at    the nucleus accumbens or "reward site." It is well known that under    normal conditions in the reward site DA works to maintain our normal    drives. In fact, DA has become to be known as the "pleasure molecule"    and/or the "antistress molecule." When DA is released into the    synapse, it stimulates a number a DA receptors (D1-D5) which results    in increased feelings of well-being and stress reduction. A consensus    of the literature suggests that when there is a dysfunction in the    brain reward cascade, which could be caused by certain genetic    variants (polygenic), especially in the DA system causing a    hypodopaminergic trait, the brain of that person requires a DA fix to    feel good. This trait leads to multiple drug-seeking behavior. This is    so because alcohol, cocaine, heroin, marijuana, nicotine, and glucose    all cause activation and neuronal release of brain DA, which could    heal the abnormal cravings. Certainly after ten years of study we    could say with confidence that carriers of the DAD2 receptor A1 allele    have compromised D2 receptors.    Therefore lack of D2 receptors causes    individuals to have a high risk for multiple addictive, impulsive and    compulsive behavioral propensities, such as severe alcoholism,    cocaine, heroin, marijuana and nicotine use, glucose bingeing,    pathological gambling, sex addiction, ADHD, Tourette’s Syndrome,    autism, chronic violence, posttraumatic stress disorder,    schizoid/avoidant cluster, conduct disorder and antisocial behavior.    In order to explain the breakdown of the reward cascade due to both    multiple genes and environmental stimuli (pleiotropism) and resultant    aberrant behaviors, Blum united this hypodopaminergic trait under the    rubric of a reward deficiency syndrome.    Publication Types:      * Review      * Review, academic    PMID: 11280926, UI: 21177392    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Since tocopherol .. vitamin E .. was consider to be all but .. if not a cure for diabetes .. this article seems interesting in light of the above article and lack of dopamine and glucose dispersal .. ?    Neuroscience 2000;101(4):1029-36 Decreased messenger RNA expression of key markers of the nigrostriatal dopaminergic system following vitamin E deficiency in the rat.     Romero-Ramos M, Venero JL, Santiago M, Rodriguez-Gomez JA, Vizuete ML, Cano     J, Machado A    Departamento de Bioquimica, Bromatologia, Toxicologia y Medicina    Legal, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Sevilla, Calle Profesor    Garcia Gonzalez s/n, 41012, Sevilla, Spain.    We have evaluated the effect of a vitamin E-deficient diet on the rat    nigrostriatal dopaminergic system. After 15 days of deficient diet,    the amount and activity of striatal and nigral tyrosine hydroxylase    increased, which contrasted with a decreased messenger RNA expression    for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine transporter in the ventral    mesencephalon. When we prolonged the deficiency of vitamin E for 30    days, dopamine levels did not differ in both areas. In contrast,    messenger RNA levels for tyrosine hydroxylase and the dopamine    transporter were markedly reduced in 30-day deficient rats. In    addition, the number of oxidatively modified proteins significantly    increased in the striatal and nigral areas studied. Overall, we    propose that these changes suggest an important role of vitamin E in    maintaining the normal equilibrium of the dopaminergic nigrostriatal    system.    PMID: 11113352, UI: 20565894    Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format    Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

I ask you if you know what are the exact pharmacological profiles for each of the  SSRIs drugs.(sedating/stimulating properties,receptor bindings, selectivity or multiple neurotransmitters involved in mechanism of action, etc.) I’m curious about every drug i take, that’s why i ask that, thanks,. Luca Zoli Ceccaroni C.V.

You can look up specific medications at this site: www.rxlist.com Have fun! Nancy to email me, remove the Z. administrator/creator/moderator alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated) alt.support.depression.manic.moderated

Response:

thanks Lynda:) Luca Zoli Ceccaroni C.V. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ask you if you know what are the exact pharmacological profiles for each of the  SSRIs drugs.(sedating/stimulating properties,receptor bindings, selectivity or multiple neurotransmitters involved in mechanism of action, etc.) I’m curious about every drug i take, that’s why i ask that, thanks,. Luca Zoli Ceccaroni C.V.

Response:

I ask you if you know what are the exact pharmacological profiles for each of the  SSRIs drugs.(sedating/stimulating properties,receptor bindings, selectivity or multiple neurotransmitters involved in mechanism of action, etc.) I’m curious about every drug i take, that’s why i ask that, thanks,. Luca Zoli Ceccaroni C.V.

Response:

Hi Luca, and Welcome to ASDMM, I ask you if you know what are the exact pharmacological profiles for each of the  SSRIs drugs.(sedating/stimulating properties,receptor bindings, selectivity or multiple neurotransmitters involved in mechanism of action, etc.) I’m curious about every drug i take, that’s why i ask that, thanks,.

here is some information: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed& list_uids=10086481&dopt=Abstract 1: J Clin Psychiatry 1999;60 Suppl 4:33-8       SSRIs and SNRIs: broad spectrum of efficacy beyond major depression. Gorman JM, Kent JM Department of Clinical Psychobiology, New York State Psychiatric Institute, College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York 10032, USA. Originally studied and introduced for the treatment of depression, the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) have proven effective for a broad range of psychiatric illnesses, including several anxiety disorders, bulimia, and dysthymia. These drugs have in common important effects on the serotonergic (5-HT) neurotransmission system, which is involved in mediating a substantial number of important functions, including mood, aggression, sexual behavior, and pain. In addition, some of the new antidepressants, like venlafaxine/venlafaxine XR, also have effects on the noradrenergic neurotransmission system, which also appears important in mood and anxiety disorders. These new drugs, because of their specificity for the serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake proteins, lack most of the adverse side effects of tricyclic antidepressants and monoamine oxidase inhibitors. Consequently, in addition to being the usual first-line treatments for major depression, they are also first-line for panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social phobia, posttraumatic stress disorder, and bulimia. They may also be the best medication treatments for dysthymia and generalized anxiety disorder. Further advances in psychopharmacology will be driven by discoveries from brain imaging and molecular biological research. http://www.biopsychiatry.com/new.htm SNaRIs, NaSSAs, and NaRIs: new agents for the treatment of depression by Kent JM New York State Psychiatric Institute, Unit 41, New York, NY 10032, USA. Lancet 2000 Mar 11; 355(9207):911-8 ABSTRACT A major goal of antidepressant development is to improve on preceding drug classes with agents with greater specificity (and therefore fewer unwanted side-effects) and with more rapid onset of antidepressant action. To this end, four antidepressants with significantly distinct pharmacological characteristics have been recently introduced: venlafaxine, nefazodone, mirtazapine, and reboxetine. Venlafaxine is the first antidepressant in a new drug class referred to as the serotonin noradrenergic reuptake inhibitors (SNaRIs). Nefazodone is a weaker serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, but a potent serotonin 5-HT2 receptor antagonist. Mirtazapine is a potent antagonist of central 2alpha-adrenergic autoreceptors, and heteroreceptors and is an antagonist of serotonin 5-HT2 and 5-HT3 receptors. The result of these actions is to increase both noradrenergic and specific (5-HT1) serotonergic transmission, and mirtazapine has therefore been termed a noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA). Reboxetine is the first selective noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor (NaRI) to be introduced since the tricyclics, and lacks immediate serotonergic effects. Select any of the following topics after going to this site: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/new.htm TCAs SSRIs NARIs RIMAs Options SSRIs/SNRIs 21st century Sigma ligands Plato v Aristotle Antidepressants New antidepressants Future pharmacotherapies The monoamine hypothesis LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : You sound like your severely depressed. The reason cutting (self mutilation ) : helped is that it raised your adrenaline level thus raising your serotoin level : which is the hormone that regulates our happiness or lack off. It can become an : addiction. Also in doing so you felt you had some control over your mood by : increasing your serotoin level. Are we really sure of the mechanism? I remember hearing of some mechanism involving endorphin release after cutting; the body fighting physical pain and inadvertantly fighting emotional pain in the process. Best Wishes, Arthur

     Psychobiologists have linked self-mutilation to either a serotonergic dysfunction or dysregulation of the opiate centers of the CNS.  The majority of these cases are diagnosed as having personality disorders and are more neurotic, hostile and introverted.  Alcohol abuse and other substance abuse disorders also contribute to a majority of these patients.  Psychotic disorders, mentally retarded individuals, sexual masochism, and obsessive-compulsive disorder all can be distinguished from impulsive-control disorder NOS (not otherwise specified) due to the nature of their characteristics.

Response:

sorry mike to hear you  still feel  so badly . i thought you were on the right road to recovery. i dont quite understand this thing that you have for cutting. i guess it gives you some sense on control. i do hope you can get a better handle on your life. you have so much to live for and enjoy . remember you have an illness .  that is not your fault.  you are only responsible for getting help with this illness and   unfortunatly this illness is so strange , that it is hard to do that . i can only tell you  i had suicidal depression last summer and i feel fine now. why dont you call suicide prevention when you get bad, they helped me so much. you have a lot of stress in your life, i wish the meds would  block the body symtoms so you could get a more realistic perspective on your life. anne try to look for the miracles !!!!

Response:

    You sound like your severely depressed. The reason cutting (self mutilation ) helped is that it raised your adrenaline level thus raising your serotoin level which is the hormone that regulates our happiness or lack off. It can become an addiction. Also in doing so you felt you had some control over your mood by increasing your serotoin level.     I’d advise you to se a DR immediately and describe the situation. Hopefully a good antidepressant can bring you out of this.     At our site we here from many cutters, if left untreated it only escalates.                                                                     Tim;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took today off because I was exhausted.  When I got up at 2 my wife asked me about reducing our retirement fund contributions and life insurance.  One of my biggest goals in life is early retirement (55 or so).  Looks like that might be going down the drain too.  I ran out to my offfice and cut, but it didn’t even hurt, but it did relieleve the craziness a little.  Now I have to drive out to my mom’s with my 5 yr. old son tonight and manage my pill popping so that I won’t fall asleep and won’t do anything crazy either. I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.  I think about death and suicide every day – but at this point I could not do it myself as the impact on the kids would be permanent and bad.  I am really considering the hospital though, but it sounds awful with no control over ones self.  I guess that’s the point though. Some days are just fine, some are hell warmed over.  And why won’t I take vitamins or eat? -Mike (maybe this should be in asd, but I’m a GAD/PAD something-or-other sufferer so I hang around here instead)

Response:

: : You sound like your severely depressed. The reason cutting (self mutilation ) : helped is that it raised your adrenaline level thus raising your serotoin level : which is the hormone that regulates our happiness or lack off. It can become an : addiction. Also in doing so you felt you had some control over your mood by : increasing your serotoin level. Are we really sure of the mechanism? I remember hearing of some mechanism involving endorphin release after cutting; the body fighting physical pain and inadvertantly fighting emotional pain in the process.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

Response:

Are we really sure of the mechanism? I remember hearing of some mechanism involving endorphin release after cutting; the body fighting physical pain and inadvertantly fighting emotional pain in the process.

I don’t think anyone really knows why cutting relieves intense emotions for some people. I’ve never heard of people with most anxiety disorders cutting, although it is common in borderline personality disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, and dissociative identity disorder.  Anyone have any experiences? -elizabeth

Response:

Good point Authur, I only looked at it from the long term point of view since most of the cutters I talk with it is a long term thing. I also heard that’s why people like super hot peppers because it causes endorphin release. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : You sound like your severely depressed. The reason cutting (self mutilation ) : helped is that it raised your adrenaline level thus raising your serotoin level : which is the hormone that regulates our happiness or lack off. It can become an : addiction. Also in doing so you felt you had some control over your mood by : increasing your serotoin level. Are we really sure of the mechanism? I remember hearing of some mechanism involving endorphin release after cutting; the body fighting physical pain and inadvertantly fighting emotional pain in the process.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

Response:

As a group I’ve noticed that MPD’s are the most frequent cutters.                                                             Tim;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are we really sure of the mechanism? I remember hearing of some mechanism involving endorphin release after cutting; the body fighting physical pain and inadvertantly fighting emotional pain in the process. I don’t think anyone really knows why cutting relieves intense emotions for some people. I’ve never heard of people with most anxiety disorders cutting, although it is common in borderline personality disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, and dissociative identity disorder.  Anyone have any experiences? -elizabeth

Response:

Good point Authur, I only looked at it from the long term point of view since most of the cutters I talk with it is a long term thing. I also heard that’s why people like super hot peppers because it causes endorphin release. and I thought people like hot peppers to open clogged sinus’!?!?! Pam–

      I thought that what horseradish was for.                                                                 Tim;)

Response:

I don’t think anyone really knows why cutting relieves intense emotions for some people. I’ve never heard of people with most anxiety disorders cutting, although it is common in borderline personality disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, and dissociative identity disorder.  Anyone have any experiences? -elizabeth

I used to do quite a bit of cutting as a teenager.  I have been diagnosed BPD and PTSD with mild Dissociative disorder.  Most of the teenagers I have known, who cut, were sexually abused.  My PTSD with mild dissociative disorder was from prolonged violent sexual abuse. I no longer fit the criteria for BPD.  I grew out of it. I barely fit PTSD etc.  Now, it’s just the PAD that is my challenge. I cut myself, with glass shards.  I felt good, when I heard the glass shatter.  When I was cutting, nothing else existed.  There was no thought of "bad things" no uncomfortable thoughts, just the task at hand.  It usually hurt (some) at the beginning. but after a few minutes, there was no pain.  I’m sure endorphins had something to do with the relief. Today, I have healthier ways to get my endorphin "rushes". — Kiesha Van Dyke To e-mail, remove ** from address.

Response:

I don’t think anyone really knows why cutting relieves intense emotions for some people. I’ve never heard of people with most anxiety disorders cutting, although it is common in borderline personality disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, and dissociative identity disorder.  Anyone have any experiences? -elizabeth </PRE</HTML

Elizabeth, I have 2 freinds diagnosed bi-polar disorder and they both cut, I know of several depressed people who cut, but i agree with you  about why …who knows?

Response:

Good point Authur, I only looked at it from the long term point of view since most of the cutters I talk with it is a long term thing. I also heard that’s why people like super hot peppers because it causes endorphin release.

and I thought people like hot peppers to open clogged sinus’!?!?! Pam–

Response:

I thought that’s what pregnant women craved!  Jalapeno’s and ice cream!  I think it made the, well, the milk flow and the baby pop out, easier! Mel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good point Authur, I only looked at it from the long term point of view since most of the cutters I talk with it is a long term thing. I also heard that’s why people like super hot peppers because it causes endorphin release. and I thought people like hot peppers to open clogged sinus’!?!?! Pam–      I thought that what horseradish was for.                                                                Tim;) </PRE</HTML

Response:

I took today off because I was exhausted.  When I got up at 2 my wife asked me about reducing our retirement fund contributions and life insurance.  One of my biggest goals in life is early retirement (55 or so).  Looks like that might be going down the drain too.

Mike,  i know how hard it is to look at the situation for what it is….but your wife just asked about  ’reducing" the retirment fund  not cutting it out entirely….This is NOT the end of your dreams anad goals ….Maybe try telling yourself that this is a part of the GAD/PAD illness and try not to blow it out of proportion. This happens to me too alot but it helps me to take my meds and give myself time to stand back and look at the situation. I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.  I think about death and suicide every day – but at this point I could not do it myself as the impact on the kids would be permanent and bad.  I am really considering the hospital though, but it sounds awful with no control over ones self.

I think it’s a good thing to think about the impact on the kids!  Sometimes that’s the only thing that keeps me afloat, knowing what harm it would do to my daughter.  Sometimes the hospital is not a bad idea, I went once, and it gave me time to put things perspective. Hang in there Mike and before things get worse, call your dr.Tell him/her how you are feeling! Pam

Response:

RF, I Printed your post. I have had days like this also. I think from now on I will pull this out and read it…Thank you Kelly

Snipped the awesome post

Response:

I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.  I think

Mike  Next week will br my birthday, I will be 63 and most of my panic anxieties and fear are under control. I had a career, I worked 30 plus years as a manager. Only a handful of people ever knew I was so sick. I was Mr Kool. I felt like you many days and nights but I made it. I could have retired at 55 but when the time came I chose to work until 60. I am three years into retirement and enjoying my four grandchildren very much. Get the help you need because their is a future for you and a good one at that. marty phobictraveler.com

Response:

Mike Dedek schreef: I took today off because I was exhausted.  When I got up at 2 my wife asked me about reducing our retirement fund contributions and life insurance.  One of my biggest goals in life is early retirement (55 or so).  Looks like that might be going down the drain too.

It sounds bad, Mike, but (not much versed in these matters) I wonder why this had to be done. (Comforting thought for you: neither I nor my wife have any retirement money waiting for us so we’ll keep on working until we’re 65 if we live to see that age).  I ran out to my offfice and cut, but it didn’t even hurt, but it did relieleve the craziness a little.  Now I have to drive out to my mom’s with my 5 yr. old son tonight and manage my pill popping so that I won’t fall asleep and won’t do anything crazy either.

Anticipatory anxiet, ain’t it a bitch?! I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.

But you do have a family and a job, right? I think about death and suicide every day – but at this point I could not do it myself as the impact on the kids would be permanent and bad.

I guess most of us have considered this at one point or another but backed down for much the same reasons which are *sound* reasons. Also, I would be much too scared…;) I am really considering the hospital though, but it sounds awful with no control over ones self.  I guess that’s the point though.

Indeed. It has been offerd by me at one time by more than one pdoc and I refused. It’s my worst nightmare. OTOH the idea had something comforting: you’re being cared for etc., like you have no responsibilities. I understand that see through your own mind mechanisms just as I did. Times will get beter. They *always* will get better. Some days are just fine, some are hell warmed over.  And why won’t I take vitamins or eat? -Mike (maybe this should be in asd, but I’m a GAD/PAD something-or-other sufferer so I hang around here instead)

And a valued poster you are too, Mike. Please stay. Things *will* get better. Four months ago I couldn’t have dreamt of what I can do now or how I would feel now. Boy, am I glad I’m still here! Take care! Philip

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R F schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  <snip I ran out to my office and cut, but it didn’t even hurt, but it did relieleve the craziness a little.  Now I have to drive out to my mom’s with my 5 yr. old son tonight and manage my pill popping so that I won’t fall asleep and won’t do anything crazy either. I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.  I think about death and suicide every day – but at this point I could not do it myself as the impact on the kids would be permanent and bad.  I am really considering the hospital though, Dear Mike: Please don’t do anything drastic. Tomorrow things might look different. I have been  where you are many times. I too have a small child. Let me repeat for  you what happen one time when I felt like you. I already told this story, but I’ll repeat it because it completely change the way I saw life. I had a bad day, similar to yours. I saw no solution, no way out, no future, I was tired of living, it take too much effort to live, and was too weak. So I decided to end it all. I had a plan and an hour. I decided to do it that very night, while everyone was asleep. I waited and waited, but for whatever reason, my child kept waking up and crying, so I had to go to his bed, cuddle him, and wait ’till he fell back to sleep.  This continued for a while until…the sun came out. With the sun, came a new perspective. I was relieved and even amazed that I was ‘alive’! I felt as if I was held hostage all night by a crazy killer who was waiting for everyone to go to sleep just to kill me. But when the sun came up, *he* desapear. I was free. The sun seemed brighter, the chirping of the birds louder, I noticed how green the trees had gotten…..then…..my kid came and said "Good morming Mom" and gave me a hug. That same day we went to a park, my kid loves the park! So while I saw my kid playing in the swings and laughing, tears ran down my cheek while I thought… "Today, this beautiful child, instead of being here laughing,  would be at the funeral home…..crying, wondering why his Mom left him. How selfish of me!! So I seek help. And promised myself to always remember that day, for when the desire to die comes again. Please, Mike, call your doctor, your psychiatrist, if you have one, if not, GET ONE NOW!!! Please. Life might seem black now, but things change!! your 5yo needs you!! Please get help!!

  I found this a kost moving and very recognizable post. You worded this very well and I’m sure most of us here can draw some inspiration from you. Thanks for sharing! Philip

Response:

 <snip I ran out to my office and cut, but it didn’t even hurt, but it did relieleve the craziness a little.  Now I have to drive out to my mom’s with my 5 yr. old son tonight and manage my pill popping so that I won’t fall asleep and won’t do anything crazy either. I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.  I think about death and suicide every day – but at this point I could not do it myself as the impact on the kids would be permanent and bad.  I am really considering the hospital though,

Dear Mike: Please don’t do anything drastic. Tomorrow things might look different. I have been  where you are many times. I too have a small child. Let me repeat for  you what happen one time when I felt like you. I already told this story, but I’ll repeat it because it completely change the way I saw life. I had a bad day, similar to yours. I saw no solution, no way out, no future, I was tired of living, it take too much effort to live, and was too weak. So I decided to end it all. I had a plan and an hour. I decided to do it that very night, while everyone was asleep. I waited and waited, but for whatever reason, my child kept waking up and crying, so I had to go to his bed, cuddle him, and wait ’till he fell back to sleep.  This continued for a while until…the sun came out. With the sun, came a new perspective. I was relieved and even amazed that I was ‘alive’! I felt as if I was held hostage all night by a crazy killer who was waiting for everyone to go to sleep just to kill me. But when the sun came up, *he* desapear. I was free. The sun seemed brighter, the chirping of the birds louder, I noticed how green the trees had gotten…..then…..my kid came and said "Good morming Mom" and gave me a hug. That same day we went to a park, my kid loves the park! So while I saw my kid playing in the swings and laughing, tears ran down my cheek while I thought… "Today, this beautiful child, instead of being here laughing,  would be at the funeral home…..crying, wondering why his Mom left him. How selfish of me!! So I seek help. And promised myself to always remember that day, for when the desire to die comes again. Please, Mike, call your doctor, your psychiatrist, if you have one, if not, GET ONE NOW!!! Please. Life might seem black now, but things change!! your 5yo needs you!! Please get help!!

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Hi, Mike, it’s a new day.  I hope that you’re still with us, and that this day will be brighter!   Mel

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I took today off because I was exhausted.  When I got up at 2 my wife asked me about reducing our retirement fund contributions and life insurance. <snipped for space

Hi Mike, All I can tell you is that life circumstances can change immensely over time and what you are feeling now, at some time will end up looking like bad dream to you. I come from a background where I was an only child of older parents with an alcoholic father and a mother who was in denial. My neighbor and his three sons molested me from the time I was 11 until I was 15. I then went into a relationship at 19 that was very abusive. Spent time in women’s shelters after being battered. Then I married a man who was a alcoholic, abusive mentally and physically. When we divorced, he got custody of my daughter because of my history of PD. I have a 15 year old I haven’t seen in 3 years. She has been adopted by her step-mother. They filed the papers a week after the birth of my second daughter; timing IS everything. BUT, now my life is settled. Yeah, my ex still shows up once in awhile. I got a real nasty letter for mother’s day. <sigh But, I am treating my PD, I workout at a gym, I have a wonderful supportive husband and a beautiful smart 4 1/2 year old. I just ran a marathon; something I NEVER would have dreamed of doing even a few months ago. So, what I’m saying is NEVER give up. You never know what the Universe has in store for you. Learn from the lessons that are offered through the "hard times" and use them to build on. We have ALL had those "long dark nights of the soul". Tenacity and courage wins the battle. You CAN make it, and even do well! Wishing you Peace and Vision, Jen

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: : I can just see the road to no family, no money, no job, and I’m on it.  I think : about death and suicide every day – but at this point I could not do it myself : as the impact on the kids would be permanent and bad.  I am really considering : the hospital though, but it sounds awful with no control over ones self.  I : guess that’s the point though. Hi Mike, I’ve lost plenty of dreams when my panic disorder hit. Like you, I even seriously considered suicide for a while. But then, slowly, I began to discover new dreams which were within my disabled grasp. It is one Hell of a rough trip, but it is worth riding out the rapids. My essay, Unfelt Hope, explains my feelings best (http://www.netaxs.com/people/aca3/arp.htm). : -Mike (maybe this should be in asd, but I’m a GAD/PAD something-or-other : sufferer so I hang around here instead) You’re welcome to post here. We know how awful things can get.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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rosee you dont know the whole story pat and me have worked all this out please drop it  Sherry^Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Why is posting email so wrong when pat did it, but suddenly, perfectly justifiable when you do it? You want to know what amazed me, though.  Pat supported you, 100% on posting this guy’s stuff.  More than you can say you did, in the same situation. Very sad. rosee             Hello Frank    Frank   You Said It would be nice if Sherry Lynn was not bogus.   then you send this email too me why say in the news group the statement above that im bogus and then e mail me and tell me you want to help me mmmmmm why would i want you to help me when your not being upfront what is it to make a point here im bogus in email you think im sincire i had double messgs all thru my childhood and sure dont need them here so i decline your offer of help    Sherry^Lynn I’m a counselor who works mostly with people who exerienced what you have described. I think that you are being very sincere about this abuse.  About 85% of my clients are woman, and of those, about 80% suffer from Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).  I think this is you. It would be my pleasure to assist you through this.  I have never done this via the Internet, however, I can feel the pain you are experiencing.  I would be willing to experiment if you are.

Response:

Why is posting email so wrong when pat did it, but suddenly, perfectly justifiable when you do it? You want to know what amazed me, though.  Pat supported you, 100% on posting this guy’s stuff.  More than you can say you did, in the same situation. Very sad. rosee             Hello Frank    Frank   You Said It would be nice if Sherry Lynn was not bogus.   then you send this email too me why say in the news group the statement above that im bogus and then e mail me and tell me you want to help me mmmmmm why would i want you to help me when your not being upfront what is it to make a point here im bogus in

email you think im sincire i had double messgs all thru my childhood and sure dont need them here so

i decline your offer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of help    Sherry^Lynn I’m a counselor who works mostly with people who exerienced what you have described. I think that you are being very sincere about this abuse.  About 85% of my clients are woman, and of those, about 80% suffer from Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).  I think this is you. It would be my pleasure to assist you through this.  I have never done this via the Internet, however, I can feel the pain you are experiencing.  I would be willing to experiment if you are.

Response:

Newsgroups:   alt.support.dissociation [More Headers] Has anyone had experience good or bad with this for internal communication? Margaret Hi Margaret, I started hypnosis in 1988 with someone who was very experienced with hypnosis and mp.  At that time I was "presenting" with multiple personalities.  Memories were happening, nightmares, depression and a lot of the stuff of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder.  We worked together for 7 years, onlyl the first couple really focused very much on hypnosis.  My memories were graphic and real, although there were still huge memory gaps in my life, some spanning several years. I benefited from hypnosis in that I was able to start reconnecting pieces of my life into a winel whole picture.  Much of my life was fragmented, and I lived in a fantasy story of how I grew up.  Hypnosis also helped to relax me.  I trusted my therapist and he proved to be very trustworthy.  The part that I’m confused, a little, about today is that he never saw the mp stuff, even though I asked him several times.  I don’t know what that was about, why he didn’t see it.  A year ago, 1/2 year after my termination with this therapist (a good termination and planned), I started seeing another therapist.  My dissociation had been increasing, and there were many periods of going places during the day and week of which I had little or no memory. We don’t use hypnosis.  She has been trained in EMDR, but I’m afraid to do that, and she has never asked me to.   In many ways, I wish I could use hypnosis with her, or even by myself now. I believe it would help me relax.  ANYWAY, if you are interested in hypnosis, I would suggest finding out what the therapist knows about it and how experience he/she is with it.  Even if she/he is NOT experienced very much with hypnosis, trust is the most important thing for YOU.  Really, as I see it, hypnosis is not very different, if at all, from relaxation, guided imagery, or some aspect of meditation.  YOU should always be in control. For me, though, I was surprised at how quickly the memories showed up, even at the first session…with NO coaching from my therapist.  He had just showed me an INNER calander and we went back to the years of my childhood. As things were happening, he might say something like "What’s happening now?" or "What do you see next?"  Also, and this was very important for me, we first had created an inside "safe room" where I could go and nobody else could get in unless I invited that person.  We also created a file cabinet where I could put things from session to session so I didn’t have to think about it…set up some good boundaries for me…although that didn’t always work and I needed to contact my therapist in between sessions to help me put things back into a manageable perspective.   Well, I’ve really talked a lot.  I hope some of it can be of help. Faith — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Has anyone had experience good or bad with this for internal communication? Margaret — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

In article com, In article

read03-admin.service.talkway. com,   "botr" I started taking .25 of

xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I

felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself

slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible

that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the

doseage to get the same effect?      Yes, this is common w/

all benzos. Is this normal?      Yes. Should I expect it to

happen again?   Maybe.  You should talk to

your Dr.  .5 mg/day of Xanax is a low dose.  I started at 1.5 mg/day and

worked up to 3mg./day, where I’ve stayed for months.  Most benzo/Xanax

users build up to a point in their dosage and then stay there, after a while

they may be able to cut back. Of course, the goal is to stop all together, if

possible.  If you have a history of substance abuse you need to be more

carefull. God bless,   Mark

Before you buy.

Purple Diamonds are the most beautiful tablets I have ever taken.  Anti-depressant and Anti-anxiety all in one. 10mg is the most I’ve take at any one time and it was the happiest most Feelsafe moments I have ever had. Long live Xanax!!!! sniffer dog xxxxx Before you buy.

Response:

Hello BB, According to United State Pharmacopoeia Drug Information Handbook, the starting dose of xanax is 0.25mg 3 times a day. It is possible that the prescribed dose is insufficient to maintain plasma levels above those needed to prevent relapse. Tolerance is sometimes expected and the manufacturers of xanax recommend that the daily dose be administered in more frequently divided dose. I suggest you contact your physician before attempting to increase the dose. I hope the information I suggested will be helpful to you, but I cannot make any guarantees as to its accuracy, completeness, usefulness, or relevance to your particular situation. There is no substitute for having an ongoing, two-way dialogue with a licensed health professional who you know and trust. Good luck. Ola – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Hi BB, You are taking a very low dose of Xanax. My initial dose, for Panic Disorder, was 3 x 1mg. I found that made me too drowsy so after calling my psychiatrist we cut it to 3 x .5 mg. I now take 3 x 1mg as I tolerate it well. My doctor has told me that he has some patients on 10mg per day. Can you convince your doctor to review your medication or can you get a 2nd opinion? Good luck, Meryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect?

     Yes, this is common w/ all benzos. Is this normal?

     Yes. Should I expect it to happen again?

  Maybe.  You should talk to your Dr.  .5 mg/day of Xanax is a low dose.  I started at 1.5 mg/day and worked up to 3mg./day, where I’ve stayed for months.  Most benzo/Xanax users build up to a point in their dosage and then stay there, after a while they may be able to cut back.  Of course, the goal is to stop all together, if possible.  If you have a history of substance abuse you need to be more carefull. God bless,   Mark Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks Mark, You have been most helpful! BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

BB Potsed: xanax question   I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB Your doctor may have been trying to hint for you to deal with the source. If you are in a bad job and it is the cause of a lot of your stess, medicine is putting off a conflict soon to come. My own experience was I took 6mg a day of Xanax and still wound up with General anxiety disorder. I stayed in a job 2 years more than I should have I like the job but hospital poitics is a killer. I ended up telling my boss of he didn’t believe the shift supervisor that I was having a breakdown and during that time called me at home demanding to speak to me. I got to admit it felt good to say it. I’m about 6 years into my diagnoses and on a low maintennce dose of Xanax. You need to try and find the cause of the anxiety. Good Luck

Response:

I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Hello BB, According to United State Pharmacopeia Drug information, the starting dose for xanax is 0.25mg 3 times a day. It is possible that the prescribed dose is insufficient to maintain plasma levels above those needed to prevent relapse. Tolerance is sometimes expected and the manufaturers of xanax recommend that the daily dose be administered in more frequently divided dose. I suggest you contact your physician before attempting to increase the dose. I hope the information I suggested will be helpful to you, but I cannot make any guarantees as to its accuracy, completeness, usefullness, or relevance to your particular situation. There is no substitute for having an ongoing, two-way dialogue with a licensed health professional who you know and trust. Good luck. OO.

Response:

Hello BB, According to United Staes Pharmacopeia Drug Information Handbook, the starting dose of xanax is 0.25mg 3 times a day. It is possible that the prescribed dose is insufficient to maintain the plasma level above those needed to prevent relapse. Tolerance is sometimes expected and the manufacturers of xanax recommend that the daily dose be administered in more frequently divided dose. I suggest you contact your physician before attempting to increase the dose. I hope the information I suggested will be helpful to you, but I cannot make any guarantees as to its accuracy, completeness, usefullness, or relevance to your particular situation. There is no substitute for having an ongoing, two-way dialogue with a licensed health professional who you know and trust. Good luck. Ola. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

BB- My doc started me on the same dossage, and HE said that you can build up a tolerance to it, but I do not know how long that takes.  However, I have read in pharmacology books that the ‘normal’ dose for panic is .25 to 4mgs a day.  I would not change my dose w/o consulting my doctor first. Jess

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

brad if your headaches are tension type then the dose of benzo will vary depending on how much tension both muscular and psychological you generate. The doses of xanax for anxiety range from .25 twice a day all the way up to 4mgday or sometimes higher for severe panic syndromes. you probably aren’t developing a tolerance to the drug but a greater expenditure of energy to bypass its effects. btw imo diazapam works better for tension headaches then alprazolam. For tension headbangers the standard de-riguer is acetaminophen 1000mg quid or any otc nsaid motrin aleve asprin etc-you can also try excedrine which combines asa aceta and caffeine for reasonable results-if the headaches are severe some of the tca meds like amitryptiline and doxepin work well-but a headache specialist or a good internist will be able to direct you to some relief-there is speculation that all headaches are a form of migraineous vascular pains in folks who have low pain thresholds so treatment may include specific migraine meds for acute or prohylactic use. hope this helps LM

Response:

Your taking a low dose in my opinion.  Its really something you need to discuss with your doctor though.  Good luck to you. Xanman — Xanland – A little insanity in an sane wolf. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/9098/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started taking .25 of xanax morning and night for anxiety & tension headaches. In two days I felt better than I had in months. Two weeks later I feel myself slipping into the same old pattern of anxiety & tension. Is it possible that my I’m building a tolerance for the med and need to increase the doseage to get the same effect? Is this normal? Should I expect it to happen again? I know it’s not kosher to discuss doseage but please give me a hint as to what is a reasonable starting point, my MD still gives me that "well Brad you just need to relax" line, so I’m petty much on my own. – thanks BB — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

he-he…How rational of you wishing to impose my insanity on others so that they will see I am truly nutso eh? Well for your edification, there own unique wierdness but and also a BTW, I noticed that the manic-depressed news group is much more tollerant…and REMEMBER, as I have said before, the majority of manic depressives either had PD’s as a first symptom OR some still even have it from time to time like me…but in reality I would rather have manic than depression. I would rather be depressed than panicky…Panic is the worst…OK?

<yards more dispensesed with Of *course* your paranoid ravings are more tolerated on a group dedicated to manic-depression. That is what that group is for, they are used to it, it’s (almost) on-topic and the people who frequent it probably have a natural empathy with your condition. Here, however, you’re just inflicting yourself on a group of people who do not want to have to download your rants. God alone knows enough of them have said so – and not just those you so predictably call the "elite". Some of the people who’ve asked you to bugger-off are people who’ve barely posted at all before now. — Gary Cooper

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You know it’s too damn bad that one statement (of supposed FACT) from a nut can ruin a whole line of what could be helpful suggestions given in the right spirit, one of saying this is what I heard or have garnered instead of THIS IS A FACTOID. I just hope that the person wanting help can rush through the crap and get help before they give up on this newsgroup and go somewhere else. Another person who says "Bob I wouldn’t visit your Home Page if it were the only thing on the net." Jody

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: Trying to get the number count up on your website again Bob/Rev/whatever?  You : said yourself that that’s why you’re posting here.  You are one sorry troll! : Mally   ): well actually Iwasn’t thinking of it that way, as at 10K it is gonna be along time be4 it gets to 20K but when I did a weblog today I noticed a bunch of new shining faces…Sorry about that.,..Hey us manic-depressed, schizo-affective or effective in  my case, types are pretty cool. Watch "Mr. Jones" with Richard Gere and you’ll get a better idea of where my head is at….at least today..or was that yesterday…

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he-he…How rational of you wishing to impose my insanity on others so that they will see I am truly nutso eh? Well for your edification, there own unique wierdness but and also a BTW, I noticed that the manic-depressed news group is much more tollerant.

(snip) ** You bet bob…why is your family bio now missing from that site? but you didn’t add your "proof" that you were "an experimental subject of the CIA"? I don’t give a hoot what your site count is, and as you say, all visitors are introduced to your true self. You’re calling yourself nutso, not me….but I guess you’d know best……not to mention your shrinks!!   Excuse me, by the way, for being rational…but when condidering the credibility of a poster, I accept the honor of being the rational one here, thank you for clearing that up. ** Bob, Rev Bob, Bobby (too many to list): If, as you say, the manic-depressed news group is much more tollerant, why not go there?  Or stay put in the CA. Earthquake NG? Oh, I forgot, they don’t especially like you there either. On 8/11/96 the good Bob Shannon says the following in *his own post* in the NG ca.earthquakes, and I quote: "BTW…Those who have me in kill files will not see this message." unquote. Looks like they got sick of your rantings there too. For those not aware, a kill file ignores ALL posts made by Bob….I guess there are some who had already made it clear that they didn’t want to hear from him again. Another quote from the same post in ca.earthquakes? okay. quote "I only post occasionally and try not to stir up the pot." unquote That’s one of my favorites. You’ve posted more in ca. earthquakes than you have in ASAP. And how about your private email campaign to unsuspecting panic sufferers here. They should know about you, and you’re offering that…thanks. I’ve seen complaints here about your email and people asking you to stop. The post here offers more insight into bob, so, in my opinion, any advise that he offers should be ignored. ** Here’s a man CALLING HIMSELF "NUTSO" but wants you to follow his offerings? BOB, GO BACK AND WORK ON SAVING THE WORLD…..EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

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: ** Bob I DO recommend that all visit your web site. he-he…How rational of you wishing to impose my insanity on others so that they will see I am truly nutso eh? Well for your edification, there own unique wierdness but and also a BTW, I noticed that the manic-depressed news group is much more tollerant…and REMEMBER, as I have said before, the majority of manic depressives either had PD’s as a first symptom OR some still even have it from time to time like me…but in reality I would rather have manic than depression. I would rather be depressed than panicky…Panic is the worst…OK? : Elliott, I have to disagree here.  I visited it before I realized how : important it was for the writer to get his count up on his home page.   : I still wonder if it was the reason he posted here.  He did once : admit that he was trying to up his count.  I assumed he meant his : article count at the time.  Now, I don’t know.   : The truth, Bob? : Anita Well for a while it really meant something to get to 10K before I moved from Washington back to my home in Ohio, because I didn’t think I was going to have the time to see it or do computers back there taking care of my mother, who has cancer….and I was sooooo close..so I posted a whole ton of wierdo messages about being Gods Prophet,. on various religious newsgroups….It backfired. I got a few hits, but I got more mail from Eastern religious groups who really hated me more than than that feller who had death threats against him from Islam…so I checked out of that motel in a big hurry.   The truth? I would actually rather have only people visit my page who are interested in alternative methods of earthquake predictions…It keeps me focused…and there are a bunch of folks out there..old/young/pro/amateur, who believe that man is capable or predicting quakes. Interesting enough, about 1/2 of my newsletter readers seem to have PD’s, although most do not seem to understand them, nor do I mention it in the news. The newsletter is done anonymously to protect the folks from…..well…. ya know… ya gotta know:-

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: ** Bob, if you please, I’d rather you didn’t respond to my posts…even if : you have a point.  I find little comfort from one whe claims, and I quote : *from your own web site* "I, Bob Shannon, was an experimental subject of : the CIA in 1964 while a patient at Water (Walter,ed.) Reed Hospital in : Washington DC. Actually Mally that sounded like a direct threat…How interesting…Frankly I don’t give a poop what you do or do not want me to do…….

If you would pause for a teeny second in your rampage all over asap you might actually notice that I did not write the post you’re responding to.   AND frankly I don’t give a damn what you do, with every word you write you just shoot yourself in the foot some more – never saw such nonsensical, babblings and ravings that make absolutely no sense at all on a support group before.    the quote is a link from my 4 year old website…It is quite true and can be backed from papers I obtained via the Freedom of Information Act. The papers are my Army medical records from St. Louis MO. I am more than willing to scan them and post them on my web page. I am also willing to have notorized copies sent out to anyone who wishes to see them.  BTW Anyone wishing to view my 4 year old web site is fres to do so..It is: http://bbs.ert.com/pinpoint

Trying to get the number count up on your website again Bob/Rev/whatever?  You said yourself that that’s why you’re posting here.  You are one sorry troll! Mally   ):

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** Bob I DO recommend that all visit your web site.

Elliott, I have to disagree here.  I visited it before I realized how important it was for the writer to get his count up on his home page.   I still wonder if it was the reason he posted here.  He did once admit that he was trying to up his count.  I assumed he meant his article count at the time.  Now, I don’t know.   The truth, Bob? Anita

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absolutely. The reaction is called paradoxical and is listed in the PDR and Drug Facts. Dont use any benzodiazapine tranquilizer if you have this reaction you will become addicted very rapidly.

From the PDR entry on alprazolam: "As with all benzodiazepines, paradoxical reactions such as stimulation, increased muscle spasticity, sleep disturbances, hallucinations and other behavioral effects such as agitation, rage, irritablility, and aggressive or hostile behavior have been reported rarely.  In many of the spontaneous case reports of adverse behavioral effects, patients were receiving other CNS drugs concomittantly and/or were described as having underlying psychiatric conditions.  Should any of the above events occur, alprazolam should be discontinued. Isolated published reports involving small numbers of patients have suggested that patients who have borderline personality disorder, a prior history of violent or aggressive behavior, alcohol or substance abuse may be at risk for such events.  Instances of irritability, hostility, and intrusive thoughts have been reported during discontinuation of alprazolam in patients with posttraumatic stress disorder…." It is clear that if you have a paradoxical reaction to benzodiazepines that you should consult your doctor immediately, and probably discontinue them.  However, the reason for this, as can be seen above, is that the reaction tells you that (a) the med may not be therapeutic for you (b) there may be underlying conditions present that may be exacerbated by the med or (c) there may be a drug interaction. How the so-called ‘Dr. Meyers, M.D.’ gets from there to suggesting paradoxical reactions pose an increased addiction risk is anyone’s guess.  I will admit to doubts about someone who claims to be a physician who cannot properly report information from the PDR. I’m still waiting for this clown to post his credentials.  Between Dr. M., Rix, and possibly Jules (if they are different), we seem to have unearthed a nest of benzo bashers in the Pacific North-West.  Anybody got a spare can of Troll-Be-Gone??? With reagard to addiction, the bottom line is that chronic use of benzodiazepines will frequently produce a physical dependence. However, it is rare for that dependence to become an addiction in PD patients. Most PD patients have no problem tapering benzo use when the time comes.  It’s not fun, but it’s no big deal either. (I just switched from Xanax to Klonopin.  The cross-tolerance is only partial, so I speak from very recent experience.) The main predictor for increased risk of benzodiazepine addiction is history of alcohol or substance abuse. People with such a history should use benzodiazepines with extreme care.   Hirsch Davis, M.A. Research Psychologist, Division of Antiviral Drug Products, FDA Instructor of Medical and Clinical Psychology, Uniformed Services               University of the Health Sciences (I’m posting my credentials- only fair since I asked for his.  My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the FDA or of USUHS. Please note that I am not a clinician, nor am I expert in PD.  My participation in ASAP is NOT as a professional, but as an individual with PD.)  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wanted to add an addendum to my post– Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…? that is, in no way is the above an "anti-benzo" post. I use both Xanax and Ativan.  I realized that my words might scare someone and that is the last thing on earth I would wish to do–well, maybe not the last– but it is pretty far down the list Sincerely, Obie

Hey Obie, don’t worry about it! Nobody could have taken your post as anti-med. It’s a fair question and one that I can’t really answer. I know that any med can affect different people in entirely different ways, so I’d suggest you speak to your doc as soon as you can about the possibility of a change. If xanax doesn’t suit there are plenty of alternatives. Look after yourself — ROB…  "high mileage but reliable!"

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: ** Bob, if you please, I’d rather you didn’t respond to my posts…even if : you have a point.  I find little comfort from one whe claims, and I quote : *from your own web site* "I, Bob Shannon, was an experimental subject of : the CIA in 1964 while a patient at Water (Walter,ed.) Reed Hospital in : Washington DC. Actually Mally that sounded like a direct threat…How interesting…Frankly I don’t give a poop what you do or do not want me to do…….   the quote is a link from my 4 year old website…It is quite true and can be backed from papers I obtained via the Freedom of Information Act. The papers are my Army medical records from St. Louis MO. I am more than willing to scan them and post them on my web page. I am also willing to have notorized copies sent out to anyone who wishes to see them.   BTW Anyone wishing to view my 4 year old web site is fres to do so..It is: http://bbs.ert.com/pinpoint

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With reagard to addiction, the bottom line is that chronic use of benzodiazepines will frequently produce a physical dependence. However, it is rare for that dependence to become an addiction in PD patients. Most PD patients have no problem tapering benzo use when the time comes.  It’s not fun, but it’s no big deal either. (I just switched from Xanax to Klonopin.  The cross-tolerance is only partial, so I speak from very recent experience.)

I got off of Ativan in 4 days, after taking it for 2 years.  The side effects of the quick withdrawal were not fun, but they were gone within a week.  Since then, I have experienced no *craving* or other symptoms of addiction to the med either. The main predictor for increased risk of benzodiazepine addiction is history of alcohol or substance abuse. People with such a history should use benzodiazepines with extreme care.  

I also do not have a history of the above. Just my 2 cents. Kate

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ** Bob, if you please, I’d rather you didn’t respond to my posts…even if : you have a point.  I find little comfort from one whe claims, and I quote : *from your own web site* "I, Bob Shannon, was an experimental subject of : the CIA in 1964 while a patient at Water (Walter,ed.) Reed Hospital in : Washington DC. (short bit snipped)   the quote is a link from my 4 year old website…It is quite true and can be backed from papers I obtained via the Freedom of Information Act. The papers are my Army medical records from St. Louis MO. I am more than willing to scan them and post them on my web page. I am also willing to have notorized copies sent out to anyone who wishes to see them.   BTW Anyone wishing to view my 4 year old web site is fres to do so..It is: http://bbs.ert.com/pinpoint

** Bob I DO recommend that all visit your web site. I found it most interesting. You did by the way, *try* to back up, with what you called *proof*, of your CIA/experiment experience. The freedom of information act is much older than 4 years. If you had *more* than you show at your site, why didn’t you put it there? You *tried* to offer proof, and that *is your* statement. If your web site needs updating, I’d suggest you spend some of your time there. I’m sure that all of the California Earthquake folks are anxiously waiting for it, as you want your site to be as up to date and accurate as possible for the impending doom for all of us that you predict for 1996-97. That’s there too! Let me make a point, which is why I objected to your post. Your were making a POINT FOR Dr. Meyers MD. The POINT, IF YOU HAVE BEEN BOTHERING TO PAY *ANY* ATTENTION AT ALL, IS THAT THIS IS *NOT* A DOCTOR, BUT IS SOMEONE EVEN MORE OUTRAGIOUS THAN YOU ARE. You have commented on almost every med known to mankind and the Rix/Rick/Dr.Meyers MD (and other suspected names) would never have let you take *anything* ever. Is that what you agree to? Bob, this will be the only time I offer this, but I’ll give you credit for 1) stating your views at your web site and 2) you are a PD sufferer, Bi-Polar (or whatever you wish to call it), and alchoholic (as you’ve stated, I believe), and therefore *at least* share one or more of the problems that others here do. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to agree with you, or in any way condone your sending email with your *type* of harmful advise. IF YOU MUST, just post…for all to see. You’re the one who said, just last week, bye to asap, unless I’m attacked. After two days you strolled right back into your usual rantings. Well, you post, and if I disagree, I’ll post..not a threat, just a statement of fact if I have the mind to.  You can have your opinions, and are entitled to them, but I find that you have harmed more than you support, so take that for what it’s worth. But supporting these NON-MEDICAL, CHANGE THEIR NAME/EMAILer/s doesn’t seem like the type of people that even you would support. Even though you change your name, you are available and are, to an extent, who you say you are, and available. **BOB, IF YOU WANT TO DO SOME GOOD FOR A CHANGE, READ THE POSTS OF THIS/THESE ANTI MED, NON-REAL, MAKE BELIEVE EXPERTS, AND GIVE ‘EM HELL. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…..EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

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Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…? Sincerely, Obie

Response:

Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…? Sincerely, Obie

** Obie, as YMMV (your mileage may vary) I can only tell you that I have found neither to be true for me, I’ve been taking Xanax on a theraputic dosage for about 8 years, and have had nothing but a *calming effect* (no sedatation, and no stimulation). I thought I’d throw that into the pool, as the topic seems to be a hot one. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…..EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

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Just wanted to add an addendum to my post– Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…?

that is, in no way is the above an "anti-benzo" post. I use both Xanax and Ativan.  I realized that my words might scare someone and that is the last thing on earth I would wish to do–well, maybe not the last– but it is pretty far down the list Sincerely, Obie

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Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…? Sincerely, Obie

absolutely. The reaction is called paradoxical and is listed in the PDR and Drug Facts. Dont use any benzodiazapine tranquilizer if you have this reaction you will become addicted very rapidly.

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Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…? Sincerely, Obie absolutely. The reaction is called paradoxical and is listed in the PDR and Drug Facts. Dont use any benzodiazapine tranquilizer if you have this reaction you will become addicted very rapidly.

** Obie, Dr. Meyers MD? I don’t know if this answer has merit or not, but the good Dr. Meyers MD’s? credibility is in question, so wait until someone like Dr. Shipko can respond (who does have credibility and credentials to back him up). When have you ever seen a doc use the Dr. & MD together? Hi, I’m Dr. HoHum, MD. Doesn’t work, does it.   The first response from Dr. Meyers MD? was "absolutely," which means that comes from personal experience. In other words he/she HAS experienced hyperactivity from Xanax. But if you check other posts from Rix or Dr. Meyers MD? there is a bottom line, which is to stay off of all benzos, and based on nothing other than opinion.  I, for one, am not taking anything from this poster seriously. BE PATIENT…….EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

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Hi. Often I read about the sedative effects of Xanax. I would like to ask if anyone here at ASAP experiences the opposite–that is, Xanax as a stimulant–almost to the point of hyperactivity…? Sincerely, Obie absolutely. The reaction is called paradoxical and is listed in the PDR and Drug Facts. Dont use any benzodiazapine tranquilizer if you have this reaction you will become addicted very rapidly.

Dr. Meyers, Since you are posting as an authority with 30 years of experience, please let us know your first name and your specialty.  Are you in private practice, or do you work in a clinic. We do welcome dissenting views in the room when they are posted with respect for other people.  I, myself, would feel more comfortable if I had some idea of who you are. Best wishes, Anita

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: When have you ever seen a doc use the Dr. & MD together? Hi, I’m Dr. HoHum, MD. : Doesn’t work, does it.   Actually, being of the old school, before specialities, it was/is in some cases quite common to put MD even after the prefix Dr. For instance: Dr. R. Bowman OB (Obstetrics) Dr Jack Luomenan (DMD) Dentist Dr. George Maloney and heres one I just found in my local phone book: Dr. James Brinkman, M.D., F.A.C.S.,P.S   Altogether about 10% of the Drs. in Yellow Pages use both. Most seem not to..

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: When have you ever seen a doc use the Dr. & MD together? Hi, I’m Dr. HoHum, MD. : Doesn’t work, does it.   Actually, being of the old school, (snipped)

** Bob, if you please, I’d rather you didn’t respond to my posts…even if you have a point.  I find little comfort from one whe claims, and I quote *from your own web site* "I, Bob Shannon, was an experimental subject of the CIA in 1964 while a patient at Water (Walter,ed.) Reed Hospital in Washington DC. There’s more where that came from Bob, so stick to another pond. EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

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Hi Carmen. While I don’t personally have experience with high dosages, I know that some people have taken over 10 mgs in a day. Isn’t there any other doctor you can talk to about this until you can see yours?  Some sound medical could help put you at ease. Ambulance Boy I’m not an ambulance chaser.  I’m usually there before the ambulance.

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Hello Carmen. I have taken xanax [alprazolam] for many years as prescribed and that is not an unusually high dose. I have been prescribed as much as thirty mgs per day and as little as .25mg a day [at present], which is almost none. There are better informed posters here like Philip, Margrove, and Jackie ect., that will provide more information, meanwhile, don’t be afraid of that dosage. [IMHO]- Kinder

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me what the most xanax you can take in a day. If you have seen my posts, I’m trying to stay in one piece until I see the pshyc tomorrow morning. I just took what I hope to be my last dose of the day which totals 5 mg. That’s the most I have ever taken since given to me in mid November. I had been taking mostly 3 mgs and occasionly just the 2 mgs but I’m scared of it. I DO need the xanax just to get me to the doc at least. Then it’s his problem to help me. I think the prescription was called in wrong and maybe that’s one of the reasons he wants to see me. My bottle is for .5mg tablet and to take 2 tablets 4 times a day. When I called Friday I was informed that only one dose should be for 2 tablets when the panic is at it’s worst and then just one. What a screw up. I’m 62 years old and am not trying to abuse these. I just can’t stop shaking and when that happens it’s awfully hard not to take something that you know will stop all the shaking, sweating.

Dear Carmen, I have read where some people have taken as much as 8 to 10 mgs of Xanax per day. However, you need to call your doctor and ask him how much more you can take, especially if you are exceeding the dose that was prescribed to you. Carmen, it doesn`t sound like you are abusing the Xanax. You are taking them because your anxiety is extremely high lately. Your doctor needs to do something to help you. Perhaps you need to try a longer acting benzo such as Klonopin. Often times with Xanax, when its effects start wearing off, you become anxious again, this is called interdosing anxiety, a longer acting benzo would alleviate most of this. Some people don`t do well on one benzo, but do better on another. Good luck with your doctor appt tomorrow!! Please let us know how is went. Jackie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me what the most xanax you can take in a day. If you have seen my posts, I’m trying to stay in one piece until I see the pshyc tomorrow morning. I just took what I hope to be my last dose of the day which totals 5 mg. That’s the most I have ever taken since given to me in mid November. I had been taking mostly 3 mgs and occasionly just the 2 mgs but I’m scared of it. I DO need the xanax just to get me to the doc at least. Then it’s his problem to help me. I think the prescription was called in wrong and maybe that’s one of the reasons he wants to see me. My bottle is for .5mg tablet and to take 2 tablets 4 times a day. When I called Friday I was informed that only one dose should be for 2 tablets when the panic is at it’s worst and then just one. What a screw up. I’m 62 years old and am not trying to abuse these. I just can’t stop shaking and when that happens it’s awfully hard not to take something that you know will stop all the shaking, sweating. Thanks, Carmen

How much Xanax you can take in a day depends on alot of factors, including what other meds you are on, and their dosages. However, I would not exceed the dose your doctor has recommended. Chip

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I’m 62 years old and am not trying to abuse these. I just can’t stop shaking and when that happens it’s awfully hard not to take something that you know will stop all the shaking, sweating.

Is your major symptom sweating and shaking? If so this is going to sound insane but try it anyway- make yourself shake even more-make yourself shake so hard you rattle your teeth and jitter bug across the floor-if you force yourself to shake it will indirectly stop your shaking-if your sweating and getting worked up more because of it run the shower and stand in the bathroom with the steam and put on a coat-make yourself really sweat-you will see that sweating and shaking are no big deal-really they aren’t. You are somaticizing your symptoms-making them bigger then they are-if you accept that you shake or sweat sometimes in excess and truly accept them as benign non life threatening symptoms that can’t hurt you you will be less afraid of them and they may stop. What kinds of thoughts are you having that sound like I can’t stand it itis-oh I am shaking and I can’t stand it-I am anxious and can’t stand it-5mg of xanax is not extraordinary but you are getting up there and without a docs supervison depending upon other health issues your cardiovascular and nuerological state not withstanding you may have a problem. Call your doc and explain what you are experiencing that is what you pay him for-if he is a new doc do it anyway-catastrophising about your appointment or your symptoms will only make them worse-anxiety is not a permanent state of ennui it does taper down unless you feed it with more ammo like awfulizing thinking. As uncomfortable as you are now you may be much more comfortable later-there are other meds that may be more appropriate for your system-at this juncture only your doc or your attending physician or prescribing physician can answer that. you aren’t a screw up-just an women with anxiety right now-distrect yourself by getting involved in some passionate hobby or interest-trust me this shall pass when I was at my worse I couldn’t concentrate long enough to read watch tv or do much of anything short of lay in a fetal position-but even in this position the anxiety waxed and waned to a point-when it wanes then do something-kep busy and active physicaly-call a friend a relative-knit-do crossword puzzles-try counting backwards from 100 think of a calm scene a place you were once or would like to be that is comforting-think of your childhood or someone elses-think of pleasant positive thoughts-daydream-pretend you do not have any anxiety or you are getting the flu and feel out of sorts-don’t label every waking moment or analyze every sensation you have-this makes you feel worse and doesn’t work in understanding what you are experiencing-what you are experiencing is a motor all reved up with the tranny still in park. call your doc and tell him how concerned and anxious you are…If all else fails go to an emregency room-they can give you injectable benzos that maytake this down a notch more or advise you of other options-this shall pass LM

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me what the most xanax you can take in a day. If you have seen my posts, I’m trying to stay in one piece until I see the pshyc tomorrow morning. I just took what I hope to be my last dose of the day which totals 5 mg. That’s the most I have ever taken since given to me in mid November. I had been taking mostly 3 mgs and occasionly just the 2 mgs but I’m scared of it. I DO need the xanax just to get me to the doc at least. Then it’s his problem to help me. I think the prescription was called in wrong and maybe that’s one of the reasons he wants to see me. My bottle is for .5mg tablet and to take 2 tablets 4 times a day. When I called Friday I was informed that only one dose should be for 2 tablets when the panic is at it’s worst and then just one. What a screw up. I’m 62 years old and am not trying to abuse these. I just can’t stop shaking and when that happens it’s awfully hard not to take something that you know will stop all the shaking, sweating. Thanks, Carmen How much Xanax you can take in a day depends on alot of factors, including what other meds you are on, and their dosages. However, I would not exceed the dose your doctor has recommended. Chip

Hi Carmen. I’m sorry to hear that you are not feeling well.  I too suffer from some of the problems that you have mentioned…goes with panic disorder for me…I’ve been living with it for almost 6 years now.  You will feel better very soon. A call to your pharmacist may help. He/she will be able to look at the other things that you are on and let you know if there will be any problems.  As far as dosage goes…I have had days when I have had to go as high as 5 mg…then others when I don’t need any at all.  As a matter of fact…other than Celexa to try and get away from some of the anxiety I deal with, I haven’t been on Xanax for about four months.  I just went back on it about 2 weeks ago to try and contol a very bad stretch of panic attacks.  It works well for me when I need it, and I hope that you will find that it helps to calm you until you can get to your dr. tomorrow.  Good luck…I will be thinking of you.  :o)

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Can someone tell me what the most xanax you can take in a day. If you have seen my posts, I’m trying to stay in one piece until I see the pshyc tomorrow morning. I just took what I hope to be my last dose of the day which totals 5 mg. That’s the most I have ever taken since given to me in mid November. I had been taking mostly 3 mgs and occasionly just the 2 mgs but I’m scared of it. I DO need the xanax just to get me to the doc at least. Then it’s his problem to help me. I think the prescription was called in wrong and maybe that’s one of the reasons he wants to see me. My bottle is for .5mg tablet and to take 2 tablets 4 times a day. When I called Friday I was informed that only one dose should be for 2 tablets when the panic is at it’s worst and then just one. What a screw up. I’m 62 years old and am not trying to abuse these. I just can’t stop shaking and when that happens it’s awfully hard not to take something that you know will stop all the shaking, sweating. Thanks, Carmen

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Hi all, After 19 years of no meds and suffering I finally went to a shrink to get meds, I tried to explain to him the best I could how bad I was, he laughed and said most people with agroaphobia end up in er rooms, I told him I would have many times but I have a Dr phobia.  He then showed me how to breath in a paper bag and wrote out a rx for xanax and said come back in 2 months.  I’m no rocket sceintest but I think he knows nothing about pd. My question is he has me taking .05 3 times a day and all I want to do is sleep. On my own I’m taking it 2 times a day and would like to cut it out to only as needed.  What is better keeping it in your system on just when you need it?   Thanks   Cheryl

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After 19 years of no meds and suffering I finally went to a shrink to get meds, I tried to explain to him the best I could how bad I was, he laughed and said most people with agroaphobia end up in er rooms, I told him I would have many times but I have a Dr phobia.  He then showed me how to breath in a paper bag and wrote out a rx for xanax and said come back in 2 months.  I’m no rocket sceintest but I think he knows nothing about pd. My question is he has me taking .05 3 times a day and all I want to do is sleep. On my own I’m taking it 2 times a day and would like to cut it out to only as needed.  What is better keeping it in your system on just when you need it?   Thanks   Cheryl

There’s no clear consensus on this, Cheryl. Many doctors seem to feel that a standard, steady dose carries less risk of ‘abuse’ than allowing the patient to take them PRN (as needed) but I must say that, personally, PRN works ideally for me and I have not had the slightest inclination to use more over time. In fact, the exact opposite. Personally, given the unpleasantness associated with withdrawal from a steady dose, my own view is that PRN use is preferable as it doesn’t lead to dependency. However, I understand that many doctors disagree. All I can say to them in contradiction is that PRN works for me – and works very well indeed. Hope that’s some help. — Gary Cooper

Response:

Hi, Gary – Personally, given the unpleasantness associated with withdrawal from a steady dose, my own view is that PRN use is preferable as it doesn’t lead to dependency. However, I understand that many doctors disagree. All I can say to them in contradiction is that PRN works for me – and works very well indeed.

I take anywhere between .50-.75 mg. of Xanax/day depending on my level of anxiety.  My doc has a standing prescription for me, yet I often find myself taking less than the prescribed amount…and never more.  Knowing that it’s *there* is an enormous comfort in and of itself – Susan

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Hi everyone, can anyone tell me if xanax can make you itch Caryn

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Hi everyone, can anyone tell me if xanax can make you itch Caryn

benzo allergies are very very rare-but anxiety can be itchy LM

Response:

Caryn wrote…… Hi everyone, can anyone tell me if xanax can make you itch Caryn

Itching would be a very uncommon side-effect of Xanax. If I were you, I would look for another cause, such as dry skin, a recent change of laundry soap, fabric softener or baths soap. I also find I am itchier in the summer, don`t know why, but I am  Take care!! Jackie ~*~Flowers have spoken to me more than I can tell in written words. They are the hieroglyphics of angels, loved by all men for the beauty of the character, though few can decypher even fragments of their meaning. * Lydia M. Child

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thank you for your input,   Caryn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, can anyone tell me if xanax can make you itch Caryn

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Caryn, Don’t know about xanax, but when I went on and came off of paxil I had a lot of itching. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, can anyone tell me if xanax can make you itch Caryn benzo allergies are very very rare-but anxiety can be itchy LM

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Hi. I’ve been on .25mg of xanax for a few months now , It was supposed to be one pill twice a day, but I took 2 at once , once a day.Anyway, I’m supposed to be trying to get off them, but I feel withdrawal on one pill a day.  I thought .25 was so low I wouldn’t have withdrawal. Even with .50, which was really what I was taking, can I be feeling withdrawal? Linda

Hi, Linda. As long as you were getting a therapeutic dose, then you could be experiencing withdrawal effects. In other words, if you were feeling any effect from taking the medication, then there is also something happening when you stop it. There are two things you can do here, IMO, the first being to consult your doctor and tell her or him what you are doing. Secondly reduce *very* gradually. Buy a pill cutter if need be and cut your dose down by a fraction of a tablet at a time – *don’t* try to rush it, please. Hope that helps. — Gary Cooper

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Hi. I’ve been on .25mg of xanax for a few months now , It was supposed to be one pill twice a day, but I took 2 at once , once a day.Anyway, I’m supposed to be trying to get off them, but I feel withdrawal on one pill a day.  I thought .25 was so low I wouldn’t have withdrawal. Even with .50, which was really what I was taking, can I be feeling withdrawal? Linda

Yes you can. Xanax is a very interesting drug. lori

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Hi. I’ve been on .25mg of xanax for a few months now , It was supposed to be one pill twice a day, but I took 2 at once , once a day.Anyway, I’m supposed to be trying to get off them, but I feel withdrawal on one pill a day.  I thought .25 was so low I wouldn’t have withdrawal. Even with .50, which was really what I was taking, can I be feeling withdrawal? Linda

Response:

we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by persons suffering from single-personality-disorder. for example, the term "host". "host" refers to a person who has either guests, or tapeworms, at least in the english language. perhaps the intention is to indicate that the person is like the "host" in a restaurant, who seats the customers, and makes them feel welcome ("hi, im paul, the maitre de of system pwyll, tonights special is intellectual conversation, your wait-personality will be with you in a moment, would you like a cup of small talk while you wait?:). if so, we have an even bigger problem, like, we aren’t selling anything, and as much as we love some of our outside people, they are definitely NOT invited into us, usually. and anyway,if *i*m the host, who’s the dishwasher? then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go back further than this body? "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a self? or are we all members of the same baseball team, ya know, 2 primary selves,and a bunch of alternates in case someone gets ill (well it’s the bottm of the 9th,and the other teams been doing well, time to switch in a pinch-feeling-alter). this seems, at first to be a little closer to reality, but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t "really" me? we think NOT not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? some of us are extremely functional, and this world is confusing and full of enough double and triple binds to make multiplicity one of the few viable alternatives. even Dr. Ross talks about treating people to "*nt*gr*t**n", and having them come out "a single person with posttraumatic stress disorder, which cannot then be cured". did he do them any good?. personally we’d much rather be a happy system than a traumatically stressed singleton. so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started thinking in terms of making up some of our own — *)O(* Pwyll

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that is so so good you made me laugh alot   thankyou love caroline and her interchangable parts[sounds like a 60's rock group] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by persons suffering from single-personality-disorder. for example, the term "host". "host" refers to a person who has either guests, or tapeworms, at least in the english language. perhaps the intention is to indicate that the person is like the "host" in a restaurant, who seats the customers, and makes them feel welcome ("hi, im paul, the maitre de of system pwyll, tonights special is intellectual conversation, your wait-personality will be with you in a moment, would you like a cup of small talk while you wait?:). if so, we have an even bigger problem, like, we aren’t selling anything, and as much as we love some of our outside people, they are definitely NOT invited into us, usually. and anyway,if *i*m the host, who’s the dishwasher? then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go back further than this body? "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a self? or are we all members of the same baseball team, ya know, 2 primary selves,and a bunch of alternates in case someone gets ill (well it’s the bottm of the 9th,and the other teams been doing well, time to switch in a pinch-feeling-alter). this seems, at first to be a little closer to reality, but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t "really" me? we think NOT not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? some of us are extremely functional, and this world is confusing and full of enough double and triple binds to make multiplicity one of the few viable alternatives. even Dr. Ross talks about treating people to "*nt*gr*t**n", and having them come out "a single person with posttraumatic stress disorder, which cannot then be cured". did he do them any good?. personally we’d much rather be a happy system than a traumatically stressed singleton. so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started thinking in terms of making up some of our own —   *)O(* Pwyll

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by persons suffering from single-personality-disorder. for example, the term "host". "host" refers to a person who has either guests, or tapeworms, at least in the english language. perhaps the intention is to indicate that the person is like the "host" in a restaurant, who seats the customers, and makes them feel welcome ("hi, im paul, the maitre de of system pwyll, tonights special is intellectual conversation, your wait-personality will be with you in a moment, would you like a cup of small talk while you wait?:). if so, we have an even bigger problem, like, we aren’t selling anything, and as much as we love some of our outside people, they are definitely NOT invited into us, usually. and anyway,if *i*m the host, who’s the dishwasher? then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go back further than this body? "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a self? or are we all members of the same baseball team, ya know, 2 primary selves,and a bunch of alternates in case someone gets ill (well it’s the bottm of the 9th,and the other teams been doing well, time to switch in a pinch-feeling-alter). this seems, at first to be a little closer to reality, but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t "really" me? we think NOT not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? some of us are extremely functional, and this world is confusing and full of enough double and triple binds to make multiplicity one of the few viable alternatives. even Dr. Ross talks about treating people to "*nt*gr*t**n", and having them come out "a single person with posttraumatic stress disorder, which cannot then be cured". did he do them any good?. personally we’d much rather be a happy system than a traumatically stressed singleton. so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started thinking in terms of making up some of our own — *)O(* Pwyll

        Wow pwyll! Fab post! Im so stoked somebody broyght this up. I personally use "alters" as my term cause thats what they were called by the folks who found em. I dunno if I object to "alter" I think it just basically implies "other"  to me, which is not objectionable, I am not her and she is not me but we are both Jackie so we are *both* alters. I dont typically apply singular thinking to it, I think theres nothing inherent in the term to suggest that there is one person(ality) who is *not* an alter, plus which it sound latinate and fancy:) But then I oughtta check so…         Lets see, the American Heritage Dictionary says:         1. Alter (verb) to change or become different.         Oooh that sounds good, What else?          2.To adjust a garment for a better fit. Well, you could adjust yourself for a better fit to the situation, but it sounds offtrack as far as a sewing metaphor.         3. (informal) to spay an animal.         Oh my, that wont do. But I might just ignore that bit…         What would be good for "part"?  As in the sense of something or someone  that *belongs* ( singulars are big on viewing a "part" as extraneous) and is a distinct thing not lost in the mix?         Hmm. What word could replace alter? Chamber? Like chambers in the nautilus? Theres never only one….hmmm . I dive for my thesaurus and type the ones that are not singular-oriented or negative.         Multiple, many, several,sundry,diverse,various.myriad.profusion.         Assemblage, throng,tribe,crew,gang,party,school,flock,covey.         Array bevy galaxy.         Component – integral part. Element. Constituent. Inherent. Belong. Constitute. Compose.         I like element a *lot*. I could be an Element! Or even fancier an Elemental. Component I’m toying with as well.         I typically do not believe in "hosts". I believe in presenters. A host is the guy who owns the house you visit, and is too singulary oriented. "Shell" is rather perjorative as well as innacurate. A shell is an inorganic dead thing like a toenail. If you had to do " the one on the outside" skin would be a better metaphor. Exterior, Bandage, wrapping, pelt ( naw, ya take those ) envelope, Cortex , Face, epi something. I’m looking either for a sense of "outer layer" or "in the world".         For protector alters I’m looking for something implying that protective function. We could say protector in plain english, and some type of fancy latin root as well para (against) monde ( world ) or something.         As for MP well, I just subtly leave off the D and I feel my statement is made;)         I would personally love to use words that dont either imply something incomplete or overcomplete about me. I’d like to use words that dont imply a center, an original, a one true self. Anybody wanna play with what I brought up, anybody got suggestions? Nation of Jackie this account borrowed from jcash

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by persons suffering from single-personality-disorder. for example, the term "host". "host" refers to a person who has either guests, or tapeworms, at least in the english language. perhaps the intention is to indicate that the person is like the "host" in a restaurant, who seats the customers, and makes them feel welcome ("hi, im paul, the maitre de of system pwyll, tonights special is intellectual conversation, your wait-personality will be with you in a moment, would you like a cup of small talk while you wait?:). if so, we have an even bigger problem, like, we aren’t selling anything, and as much as we love some of our outside people, they are definitely NOT invited into us, usually. and anyway,if *i*m the host, who’s the dishwasher?

Hi Pwyll! You made me laugh with all this!  Well, I don’t really like the word host either.  Our Host’s name is *not* Host, but she has the legal name and we needed to keep that private, and so…  She chooses to see herself as someone inhabited by parasites lately.  (I guess that makes me a tapeworm,-NOT  In fact she’s more dependent on me!)   Even if you use the word host as someone who in their home is a gracious host to others and shares their space, it still implies that the host is the one who belongs and the others are just guests!  (I’ve been around longer than our current Host.  That doesn’t make me a visitor!) I had hoped that *at least* our Host could see herself that way since she can’t seem to admit that we belong here as much as she does! Ahh… I think she’ll accept sometime.  Looking forward to that. then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go back further than this body?

Our therp used "parts" and I finally told her that was *not* acceptable to us!  I am not a "part" *anything*.  I am a real person!  That was when we described ourselves as a special Family with Family Members. Therp uses this language now, and I like it much better. Hee hee on the 3/4-Sullen-Teenaged-Bitch-Alter!  Ha!  I’m still real happy about that slogan!  But 3/4"??????  :-) Naw!  I’m at least 20 feet tall, thanks!  Part?  I don’t think so! "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a self? or are we all members of the same baseball team, ya know, 2 primary selves,and a bunch of alternates in case someone gets ill (well it’s the bottm of the 9th,and the other teams been doing well, time to switch in a pinch-feeling-alter). this seems, at first to be a little closer to reality, but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t "really" me? we think NOT

Alter I feel more neutral on, but only because it seems like more of a technical term.  I prefer to be dealt with as a person, which is who I am. not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? some of us are extremely functional, and this world is confusing and full of enough double and triple binds to make multiplicity one of the few viable alternatives. even Dr. Ross talks about treating people to "*nt*gr*t**n", and having them come out "a single person with posttraumatic stress disorder, which cannot then be cured". did he do them any good?.

Argh!  Did he really say that??  I don’t *like* that! personally we’d much rather be a happy system than a traumatically stressed singleton.

I say dissociating was a healthy response to survive a bunch of sicko disordered abusers in our lives.   so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started thinking in terms of making up some of our own

Hear, hear! — *)O(* Pwyll

Mary — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Hi Jackie, I *really* enjoyed your response here! <snip         Lets see, the American Heritage Dictionary says:         1. Alter (verb) to change or become different.         Oooh that sounds good, What else?          2.To adjust a garment for a better fit. Well, you could adjust yourself for a better fit to the situation, but it sounds offtrack as far as a sewing metaphor.

Hey, watch it, I don’t like that needle!!  eeeek!           3. (informal) to spay an animal.         Oh my, that wont do. But I might just ignore that bit…

Double eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!         What would be good for "part"?  As in the sense of something or someone  that *belongs* ( singulars are big on viewing a "part" as extraneous) and is a distinct thing not lost in the mix?

Well, a distinct thing not lost in the mix….. that sounds okay. But most people see "part" as something incomplete and small.  I am neither incomplete or small.  Some people would argue that I am incomplete, but I don’t feel that way. I have my own identity and name, my own friends, experiences, ways of dealing with life.  I am a protector, but I am not flat, not one who only feels anger or one who only comes out to protect.  I have the whole range of thoughts, emotions, experiences, activities.  I am capable of great tenderness as well as indignation.  I don’t feel I am unable to stand on my own. I choose to be who I am, and to protect the Family.  I am not a "part" But I could accept it as a "distinct *person* not lost in the mix." Don’t think I’m a *thing* Except maybe when I’m really p*ssed! The SO might think of me as godzilla but I’m really human!         Hmm. What word could replace alter? Chamber? Like chambers in the nautilus? Theres never only one….hmmm . I dive for my thesaurus and type the ones that are not singular-oriented or negative.         Multiple, many, several,sundry,diverse,various.myriad.profusion.         Assemblage, throng,tribe,crew,gang,party,school,flock,covey.         Array bevy galaxy.         Component – integral part. Element. Constituent. Inherent. Belong. Constitute. Compose.         I like element a *lot*. I could be an Element! Or even fancier an Elemental. Component I’m toying with as well.

Whewee!  I am whirling with the thought of being a profusion in a a galaxy!  Wow!         I typically do not believe in "hosts". I believe in presenters. A host is the guy who owns the house you visit, and is too singulary oriented. "Shell" is rather perjorative as well as innacurate. A shell is an inorganic dead thing like a toenail.

Yuck!  Our Host is definitely alive and worthy. If you had to do " the one on the outside" skin would be a better metaphor. Exterior, Bandage, wrapping, pelt ( naw, ya take those ) envelope, Cortex , Face, epi something. I’m looking either for a sense of "outer layer" or "in the world".         For protector alters I’m looking for something implying that protective function. We could say protector in plain english, and some type of fancy latin root as well para (against) monde ( world ) or something.

Paramonde!  Wow!  a Paramonde in a profusion galaxy!  Holy moley! I like to be called a protector and/or guardian.         As for MP well, I just subtly leave off the D and I feel my statement is made;)

Cheering!         I would personally love to use words that dont either imply something incomplete or overcomplete about me. I’d like to use words that dont imply a center, an original, a one true self. Anybody wanna play with what I brought up, anybody got suggestions?

Nothing to add except that I’m having a lot of fun!  Thanks Jackie. Nation of Jackie this account borrowed from jcash

Mary Family of Promise — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by persons suffering from single-personality-disorder.

We enjoyed this post, it was amusing and interesting. As for terminology we’ve been trying to think in terms that don’t undervalue our individual selves and don’t imply internal inequality. for example, the term "host".

<very satirical piece on ‘host’ snipped for BW Never felt comfortable with the term host; must be because I did do biology. And although I referred to myself as a co-ordinator, even that’s changed a bit now that Sara has finally recognised wildflower. Tuesday night they were talking away without me, I felt left out. then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go back further than this body?

Now Sara & wildflower were giggling over the idea of borrowing a sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter, but you’re right, many of us are very much whole people, and often there are more than one who has certain skills. "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a self? <snipped , but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t "really" me? we think NOT

Well, I’d like to think I’m the oiginal, but then so would the others. That is the term I use when being non-specific: ‘others’ not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? <snipped

Oh the psychs do seem to like to call things disorders. Now I may have had a disorder before becoming aware of, and accepting the others, but now there’s a feeling of order and wholeness. I know of transgendered people who hate the term Gender Identity Disorder for similar reasons; they don’t feel that it is a disorder. so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started thinking in terms of making up some of our own

Yeah! (Mostly) Ashley Geography Department, Auckland University

Response:

: we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we : find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by : persons suffering from single-personality-disorder. yep. we have terrible troubles with personal pronouns and verb tenses. : for example, the term "host". "host" refers to a person who has either : guests, or tapeworms, at least in the english language. perhaps the : intention is to indicate that the person is like the "host" in a : restaurant, who seats the customers, and makes them feel welcome ("hi, im : paul, the maitre de of system pwyll, tonights special is intellectual : conversation, your wait-personality will be with you in a moment, would : you like a cup of small talk while you wait?:). if so, we have an even : bigger problem, like, we aren’t selling anything, and as much as we love : some of our outside people, they are definitely NOT invited into us, : usually. and anyway,if *i*m the host, who’s the dishwasher? we have never liked the term "host." it has those biological overtones to us, like you mentioned. like if we have a host, then the rest of us are parasites. yuk. : then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, : interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we : can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that : we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of : us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go : back further than this body? : "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are : alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can : someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a : self? or are we all members of the same baseball team, ya know, 2 primary : selves,and a bunch of alternates in case someone gets ill (well it’s the : bottm of the 9th,and the other teams been doing well, time to switch in a : pinch-feeling-alter). this seems, at first to be a little closer to : reality, but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t : "really" me? we think NOT a couple of years ago we decided that we are all "principles," according to this definition of principle from our oxford english dictionary: "a fundamental quality which constitutes the source of action." alas, hypocrites that we are, we continue to refer to ourselves as parts. : not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic : that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? some of us are : extremely functional, and this world is confusing and full of enough : double and triple binds to make multiplicity one of the few viable : alternatives. even Dr. Ross talks about treating people to "*nt*gr*t**n", : and having them come out "a single person with posttraumatic stress : disorder, which cannot then be cured". did he do them any good?. : personally we’d much rather be a happy system than a traumatically : stressed singleton. us too. tess : so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started : thinking in terms of making up some of our own : — : *)O(* : Pwyll —                         ~*  _                      ~*    After the final no there comes a yes   | |_   ___   ___  ___   ~*    And on that yes the future world depends. |  _| / -_) (_-< (_-<   ~*    No was the night. Yes is this present sun.  __| ___| /__/ /__/   ~*                              -Wallace Stevens                         ~*

Response:

Long time ago we used to yell "Shotgun" when getting in the car and that meant we could sit up front. Not that that should replace "host", but sometimes even now when we are going to do something adventuresome or fun, someone inside always yells this We refer to our other selves, as "inners". Not comfortable with alter or parts.Cause they sound too "dead"..too invalidating. in our opinion. Have enjoyed this thread tho. Thanks to all who’ve kept it going AllofDark

Wow! I like all these terms.  I love shotgun!  Inners feels real good too.  Much better than parts or alters.   Thanks for sharing AllofDark. Mooncalf

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROTFL! You are completely right on all of these. I’d like to add my current ‘favorite’ _executive control_ I’m supposedly this, or have this or whatever. Like I told my therapist yesterday ‘_I’m_ in control?’ Now, that’s scarey! I’m controlling _what_? As for being an executive, should I wear a tie? I don’t wear skirts, so that’s right out. I _won’t_ wear heels, so can I be an executive in jeans? And wouldn’t you think, if I’m in control I could give it away periodically? Well, it gets _taken_ away, but I rarely delegate. Maybe it should be unconsciously in executive control, but that sounds _really_ odd!!! I’d think ‘pointperson’ or ’shoved out front most often’ fits better I think that the word ‘host’ should be replaced with ‘wrangler’. In movies they have ‘baby wrangler’, ‘animal wrangler’ etc. which means the person in charge of knowing who’s where/when. That fits better than host! It still isn’t completely right, but it’s better.

Long time ago we used to yell "Shotgun" when getting in the car and that meant we could sit up front. Not that that should replace "host", but sometimes even now when we are going to do something adventuresome or fun, someone inside always yells this We refer to our other selves, as "inners". Not comfortable with alter or parts.Cause they sound too "dead"..too invalidating. in our opinion. Have enjoyed this thread tho. Thanks to all who’ve kept it going AllofDark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rainbow Colors (Jill, executively in control, quick someone tell me what to do!) we’ve been pondering the language of multiplicity for a while now and we find it sadly lacking. this is probably the result of being made up by persons suffering from single-personality-disorder. for example, the term "host". "host" refers to a person who has either guests, or tapeworms, at least in the english language. perhaps the intention is to indicate that the person is like the "host" in a restaurant, who seats the customers, and makes them feel welcome ("hi, im paul, the maitre de of system pwyll, tonights special is intellectual conversation, your wait-personality will be with you in a moment, would you like a cup of small talk while you wait?:). if so, we have an even bigger problem, like, we aren’t selling anything, and as much as we love some of our outside people, they are definitely NOT invited into us, usually. and anyway,if *i*m the host, who’s the dishwasher? then theres "parts". this is america right, so parts is parts, right?, interchangable, right?( anybody got a 3/4-sullen-teenaged-bitch-alter we can borrow?) am i just a transmission? or are they trying to imply that we’re all just pieces of some "greater" whole. but then how come some of us are whole people, with the full range of feelings and memories that go back further than this body? "alter" is another classic. the word implies that the rest of me are alternative versions of some "original" person. who, exactly?, and how can someone of a different race and or gender be an alternative version of a self? or are we all members of the same baseball team, ya know, 2 primary selves,and a bunch of alternates in case someone gets ill (well it’s the bottm of the 9th,and the other teams been doing well, time to switch in a pinch-feeling-alter). this seems, at first to be a little closer to reality, but then, who decides, and does that mean the rest of us aren’t "really" me? we think NOT not to be forgotten is ‘multiple personality disorder". is it automatic that if there’s more than one of you, you’re sick? some of us are extremely functional, and this world is confusing and full of enough double and triple binds to make multiplicity one of the few viable alternatives. even Dr. Ross talks about treating people to "*nt*gr*t**n", and having them come out "a single person with posttraumatic stress disorder, which cannot then be cured". did he do them any good?. personally we’d much rather be a happy system than a traumatically stressed singleton. so anyway, thats the language we’ve got,and maybe it’s time we started thinking in terms of making up some of our own — *)O(* Pwyll —     I choose to post non-anon because my abusers are afraid.     They would have to admit something happened in order to     confront me; this they will never do. They are the only     people who will be upset if they know who I am, and they     are too afraid to admit to what they did.                       Black of Rainbow Colors

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