Question:
I’m sorry about this situation, I’m sorry about your Dad. J
Hi J, Thank you for your comments. Im so sorry too. It’s so hard to go in there and see him like this, he was such a strong and beautiful man a couple of years ago. To see him now, it’s so difficult to hold back the tears. I have been strong though, and have not shown my own tears and fears in front of him. Nor mentioned the caos. Im praying for a miracle for him, and thats about all I should be worrying about. My sister will get straightened out when it’s all over. Thank you for all the links and all the support. After all my lessons are learned, I hope I can be as supportive to this group as you and the others are. Have a wonderful day. Carla
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Thank you for your comments. Im so sorry too. It’s so hard to go in there and see him like this, he was such a strong and beautiful man a couple of years ago. To see him now, it’s so difficult to hold back the tears. I have been strong though, and have not shown my own tears and fears in front of him. Nor mentioned the caos. Im praying for a miracle for him, and thats about all I should be worrying about. My sister will get straightened out when it’s all over.
Hello Carla, I saw your post about the executor after I posted my other reply. I so hope you will find some trustworthy persons to take care of this matter while you are concentrating on being with and caring for your Father. Unless some reasonable explanation is forthcoming, I do declare the "person" who did this to be the lowest of the low. Not just because of the money involved, but because of the broken trust at a time when you and your father are at your most vulnerable. Despicable and perhaps the law will have to be involved here. You may not see any money, but the punishment should fit the crime. I would also suggest that later, you seek some counselling. For post-traumatic XXX. This must not turn you into a cynic about people. But I can see how it’s possible for such to do so. Believe in you, find people who will surround you with love and who care about you and your loved ones. I would avoid this person because she is "toxic". My opinion. If we can be of assist on other issues, please post, we’ll do the best we can to help you and your father. Blessings. J
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Some comments: 1. Consider joining acor.org nonsmall cell lung cancer support group. 2. There is no way in my opinion that a couple of months delay would significantly impact prognosis for nonsmall cell lung cancer. 3. If he can get mobile, perhaps you can consider chemo. Otherwise, the people are right that you should see him. I am sorry about this, it’s a very difficult situation and I am sure you are suffering and the group can try to help in any way it can. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Trish, I have spoken with the doctor and nurses almost daily. Im quite angry actually, because he was diagnosed in December, after all other organs and bones and spine was checked as well, and ONLY the left lung was detected. He was sent home and told to wait for a call from his GP. He did not recieve a call to see an oncologist until February. By the time radiation was to begin – 1 week later, the radiation guy was FURIOUS. He could not figure out why it had taken so long to refer him, and did say that – had my dad been sent in december, he could have had up to an 80 to 90% chance of clearing up the lung. But I guess this spreads fast! They can’t give a timeline. I think they’ve stopped doing that because things change sometimes. Thats why I wondered if anyone knew of anyone in a similar situation, and might know how long he may suffer and if there is alternative hope? Even to aleviate some pain if there is no hope. I pray there is hope though! Kim Carla, I totally agree with J. You need to call, and then go if you are able. Stay in touch, Trish My Dad was diagnosed with non small cell lung cancer in early December 2002. He was not referred for radiation until february. By then he had taken a fall and broke his back. The cancer has now mestatisized (sp) into his spine. His left lung is functioning at maybe 13%, and the back, Im not sure how bad it is. Be frank with me, please. Does anyone know, how much time he might have. He is laid up in a Hospital bed in Canada, and when he is concious, he is terrified. They will be starting radiation soon. But he is to weak to undergo surgery or chemo. Please, any info you can give me, I’d appreciate. Hello Carla, That’s a tough situation and you being so far away. The broken back means he won’t be able to get up and around and sometimes pneumonia sets in, with non-ambulatory patients. The back may have broken because it was weakened by the metastasis. The radiation therapy is probably palliative (for pain). The survival time is often expressed in % and median (half do better, half don’t). With the complication of the broken back, I doubt that anyone here could answer your question and perhaps not even the hospital. What I did was call the ward at the hospital (Canada), told them it’s long distance from XXXX (place), that I’m a close relative and could I please speak to someone who has a good sense of what the situation really was. If you’ve a relative near your Dad, (s)he might know the name of one of the nurses taking care of your Dad. I got lucky and a male nurse answered my question. He was reluctant at first, so I put it to him this way "if it was your Dad, would you go now, or is there time to wait?". He told me to go now. If you’re wanting to see him, then try that. If he has no one close (for /with him), it would be helpful for you to be there, if you can. I went, now knowing how long I’d be there, but had an approximation from what the nurse told me. He’s Stage IV http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lu ng/patient/ If your Dad’s not in a pallative care wing of the hospital, someone should ask that he be transferred to one, if possible. (unless he’s in a critical care wing). Our Canadian hospitals are really pressed for space right now (due to many complicating factors). Perhaps a call there, will answer your question? Best wishes, J
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Hi, My Dad was diagnosed with non small cell lung cancer in early December 2002. He was not referred for radiation until february. By then he had taken a fall and broke his back. The cancer has now mestatisized (sp) into his spine. His left lung is functioning at maybe 13%, and the back, Im not sure how bad it is. Be frank with me, please. Does anyone know, how much time he might have. He is laid up in a Hospital bed in Canada, and when he is concious, he is terrified. They will be starting radiation soon. But he is to weak to undergo surgery or chemo. Please, any info you can give me, I’d appreciate. Thanks Carla
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My Dad was diagnosed with non small cell lung cancer in early December 2002. He was not referred for radiation until february. By then he had taken a fall and broke his back. The cancer has now mestatisized (sp) into his spine. His left lung is functioning at maybe 13%, and the back, Im not sure how bad it is. Be frank with me, please. Does anyone know, how much time he might have. He is laid up in a Hospital bed in Canada, and when he is concious, he is terrified. They will be starting radiation soon. But he is to weak to undergo surgery or chemo. Please, any info you can give me, I’d appreciate.
Hello Carla, That’s a tough situation and you being so far away. The broken back means he won’t be able to get up and around and sometimes pneumonia sets in, with non-ambulatory patients. The back may have broken because it was weakened by the metastasis. The radiation therapy is probably palliative (for pain). The survival time is often expressed in % and median (half do better, half don’t). With the complication of the broken back, I doubt that anyone here could answer your question and perhaps not even the hospital. What I did was call the ward at the hospital (Canada), told them it’s long distance from XXXX (place), that I’m a close relative and could I please speak to someone who has a good sense of what the situation really was. If you’ve a relative near your Dad, (s)he might know the name of one of the nurses taking care of your Dad. I got lucky and a male nurse answered my question. He was reluctant at first, so I put it to him this way "if it was your Dad, would you go now, or is there time to wait?". He told me to go now. If you’re wanting to see him, then try that. If he has no one close (for /with him), it would be helpful for you to be there, if you can. I went, now knowing how long I’d be there, but had an approximation from what the nurse told me. He’s Stage IV http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lung/p… If your Dad’s not in a pallative care wing of the hospital, someone should ask that he be transferred to one, if possible. (unless he’s in a critical care wing). Our Canadian hospitals are really pressed for space right now (due to many complicating factors). Perhaps a call there, will answer your question? Best wishes, J
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Carla, I totally agree with J. You need to call, and then go if you are able. Stay in touch, Trish
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Dad was diagnosed with non small cell lung cancer in early December 2002. He was not referred for radiation until february. By then he had taken a fall and broke his back. The cancer has now mestatisized (sp) into his spine. His left lung is functioning at maybe 13%, and the back, Im not sure how bad it is. Be frank with me, please. Does anyone know, how much time he might have. He is laid up in a Hospital bed in Canada, and when he is concious, he is terrified. They will be starting radiation soon. But he is to weak to undergo surgery or chemo. Please, any info you can give me, I’d appreciate.
Hello Carla, That’s a tough situation and you being so far away. The broken back means he won’t be able to get up and around and sometimes pneumonia sets in, with non-ambulatory patients. The back may have broken because it was weakened by the metastasis. The radiation therapy is probably palliative (for pain). The survival time is often expressed in % and median (half do better, half don’t). With the complication of the broken back, I doubt that anyone here could answer your question and perhaps not even the hospital. What I did was call the ward at the hospital (Canada), told them it’s long distance from XXXX (place), that I’m a close relative and could I please speak to someone who has a good sense of what the situation really was. If you’ve a relative near your Dad, (s)he might know the name of one of the nurses taking care of your Dad. I got lucky and a male nurse answered my question. He was reluctant at first, so I put it to him this way "if it was your Dad, would you go now, or is there time to wait?". He told me to go now. If you’re wanting to see him, then try that. If he has no one close (for /with him), it would be helpful for you to be there, if you can. I went, now knowing how long I’d be there, but had an approximation from what the nurse told me. He’s Stage IV http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lu ng/patient/ If your Dad’s not in a pallative care wing of the hospital, someone should ask that he be transferred to one, if possible. (unless he’s in a critical care wing). Our Canadian hospitals are really pressed for space right now (due to many complicating factors). Perhaps a call there, will answer your question? Best wishes, J
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<snip Luanne, I’m sorry that your dad’s situation is so bad right now. My Dad was offered a hospice environment but my sister said NO. I think maybe he would have found more comfort there. He does not like the hospital. He told me when he first went in…. Please take me out of here and bring me to your house. But he was bedridden, and I have 12 steps to walk up at my place.
Why is your sister opposed to a hospice? Perhaps she sees your dad going into hospice as an admission that he will die soon. Does your dad have palliative care specialists and pain management people involved? There may be ways to make him more comfortable. As well, a palliative team might be able to talk to your sister about the hospice issue. My freind wrote this for my Dad, because he was so afraid last night. He was so very terrified of dying. I don’t know what to say or do. I can only be there.
Speaking as someone with cancer, let me tell you that "being there" is a wonderful gift. It’s hard to be present to someone’s pain, grief and fear, especially hard when it’s your father. I think you are a very classy, strong, and loving woman. And I bet your dad thinks so, too. The poems were lovely- spare and truthful. Thank you for sharing them with us. Gentle hugs, Michele
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was there last night. It’s very bad now. He can’t be moved. He is paralyzed both from the broken back, and from the cancer in his spine. They have put him on a dilaudid pump. He is vomitting blood now non stop and lots and lots. I don’t know how long ago I posted my first post, but I know now things have gotten so bad since then. Worse then I could have ever imagined. He told me he was so scared, and asked me how he could get well. I just weeped, because I don’t know. He really has a determination to survive. The doctor told us he was way to weak for surgery or chemo. He went for one round of radiation and it worsened his pain and suffering so it’s been stopped. The nurse was injecting something into some thing that was in his arm last night, and I asked her what it was. She told me it was to stop any swelling in the head. Im assuming it’s in the brain. I just did’nt want to know any more and did not ask. It was very sad, I was not able to get to the hospital until 7pm last night. My sister had threatened to have the nurses licences revoked because in her eyes they were not working to her standard. I don’t know what happened during the day, but I know if you start yelling at the care takers, your not going to get a lot of cooperation. So I apologized as best I could and asked it be overlooked. The nurses that were there when I was there were very very nice and doing all they could. Before they came in, I was changing the linins and washing him, and it was very hard work. I can’t imagine the difficulty it must be for them, and they are not even family members. My Dad was offered a hospice environment but my sister said NO. I think maybe he would have found more comfort there. He does not like the hospital. He told me when he first went in…. Please take me out of here and bring me to your house. But he was bedridden, and I have 12 steps to walk up at my place. My freind wrote this for my Dad, because he was so afraid last night. He was so very terrified of dying. I don’t know what to say or do. I can only be there. But maybe some of you will find some comfort as I have, in these words my friend has written.
Hello Carla, Your friend’s words were beautiful. Thank you for sharing. You first posted on the 21st, he’s going down rapidly in only 7 days. They’re probably injecting steroids to stop brain swelling. Vitamin C and stem cell won’t help now. He needs to be in palliative care treatment, they’re the experts. Of course he’s scared, of course he doesn’t want to die, but his comfort must come first now. Palliative care workers know how to comfort and treat symptoms better than the ward he’s currently on. They’ll be of great assistance to you and your sister too. When it’s "offered", that’s a gentle hint that nothing more, in that ward, can be done for him. You (and your sister) need to make decisions for your Dad now. I have some stuff you need to read ASAP Print this one up and go through it with your sister. <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=d6c2e79fa2510db8&seekm=lioa7… http://www.crossingthecreek.com/ Lots of comfort and information there. But you cannot take care of him properly at home. He’s on the wrong ward now. He must be transferred to palliative. You must reach acceptance of this. I’m so sorry. J
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Hi, I was there last night. It’s very bad now. He can’t be moved. He is paralyzed both from the broken back, and from the cancer in his spine. They have put him on a dilaudid pump. He is vomitting blood now non stop and lots and lots. I don’t know how long ago I posted my first post, but I know now things have gotten so bad since then. Worse then I could have ever imagined. He told me he was so scared, and asked me how he could get well. I just weeped, because I don’t know. He really has a determination to survive. The doctor told us he was way to weak for surgery or chemo. He went for one round of radiation and it worsened his pain and suffering so it’s been stopped. I was hoping they would start an IV injection of at least vitamin C. But I guess they don’t do that at conventional hospitals. Linus Pauling thought that was a good thing for cancer. Maybe it’s to late, I don’t know. I’d do anything to cure it. Im not even sure if they would consider stem cell for him. I just don’t know. Probably to late. The nurse was injecting something into some thing that was in his arm last night, and I asked her what it was. She told me it was to stop any swelling in the head. Im assuming it’s in the brain. I just did’nt want to know any more and did not ask. It was very sad, I was not able to get to the hospital until 7pm last night. My sister had threatened to have the nurses licences revoked because in her eyes they were not working to her standard. I don’t know what happened during the day, but I know if you start yelling at the care takers, your not going to get a lot of cooperation. So I apologized as best I could and asked it be overlooked. The nurses that were there when I was there were very very nice and doing all they could. Before they came in, I was changing the linins and washing him, and it was very hard work. I can’t imagine the difficulty it must be for them, and they are not even family members. My Dad was offered a hospice environment but my sister said NO. I think maybe he would have found more comfort there. He does not like the hospital. He told me when he first went in…. Please take me out of here and bring me to your house. But he was bedridden, and I have 12 steps to walk up at my place. My freind wrote this for my Dad, because he was so afraid last night. He was so very terrified of dying. I don’t know what to say or do. I can only be there. But maybe some of you will find some comfort as I have, in these words my friend has written. My fears and tears are nothing compared to what my beautiful, once strong and loving father is going through. Beauty embodied. Hate no more. Love abounding at your door. Precious, more precious then I can see. Faithfull, more faithfull then I can be. Open, oh open the door to me. And heres one just for him.(if you want) With groaning to deep for words, I call out you. Oh bless me. For no other can touch me now. Grant me the peace that passes all understanding. A fellowship beyound the grasp of my pain and fear. Pour out your mercy and strength. Whisper to me, "I am here". And fill me with Joy. Let my days testify that you are. Your perfect love casts out fear. Your strengh is made perfect in weakness. Your mercy knows no bounds. Your promises are true. So, I call out to you. I hope I can offer some help in advocating for research for this disease in the near future. I’d heard about it’s ravaging horror’s in the past but never imagined the reality of it’s harshness. Bless you all for your advice, and support. Thank you to all of you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some comments: 1. Consider joining acor.org nonsmall cell lung cancer support group. 2. There is no way in my opinion that a couple of months delay would significantly impact prognosis for nonsmall cell lung cancer. 3. If he can get mobile, perhaps you can consider chemo. Otherwise, the people are right that you should see him. I am sorry about this, it’s a very difficult situation and I am sure you are suffering and the group can try to help in any way it can.
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Hi J, I will take your advice and see the lawyer and my own. It’s not a matter of who is getting what. The will is quite simple, it is to be split 50/50 between my sister and I. I gave her power of attourney because she has a vehicle and can get to the city he is in. She cashed in all the RRSP’s while he was not in his right mind, (did it 2 weeks ago) 2 alone were for over 20 grand each, and ended up paying high penalties, because he fixed it with his bankers that it was locked in until he was 69. (he is only 65) and she did tell me that it was for expenses, although there was only phone and cable, food and her gas and time. We are talking alot of money, she has since told me there is nothing left as of last Sunday. Day before yesterday. In December he was in the high 6 digit range. No It’s not a matter of who gets what, I read the will. It’s just he gave her signing power because he could not sign. Yes, it surely does take the cake, and Im more shocked then anyone. Take Care, Carla
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Just so you know, The executor was as surprised as I was. This is my original account, so sorry if I confused you with the different screen name. This email I can be reached at. Yes, my sister is Canadian, so am I. We both live in proximity to OTMH, the hospital my Dad is in. As I said, at the time he became ill in December, I did not have a vehicle, and she said she could not take me to see him as she was to busy, though she lives 10 mins away. The will was signed in December and he was in his right mind then. He has not been in his right mind since maybe mid January. So, I did arrange my own transportation, and have seen him almost daily since he was admitted to pallative care this time. But he can’t understand what we are saying, so it’s no point in bringing it up. He does not know what day it is, where he is etc. Take Care, Carla. Carla.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will take your advice and see the lawyer and my own. It’s not a matter of who is getting what. The will is quite simple, it is to be split 50/50 between my sister and I. I gave her power of attourney because she has a vehicle and can get to the city he is in. She cashed in all the RRSP’s while he was not in his right mind, (did it 2 weeks ago) 2 alone were for over 20 grand each, and ended up paying high penalties, because he fixed it with his bankers that it was locked in until he was 69. (he is only 65) and she did tell me that it was for expenses, although there was only phone and cable, food and her gas and time. We are talking alot of money, she has since told me there is nothing left as of last Sunday. Day before yesterday. In December he was in the high 6 digit range. No It’s not a matter of who gets what, I read the will. It’s just he gave her signing power because he could not sign.
Oh my @%$#%!!! Hold onto your hat there Carla, if a person can do that, they might also get (have gotten) your father to sign a new will. Or edit and initial the old one. Hope you have an actual copy of the original?? You will probably also require statements from the physicians about his faculties on/around the time of these events. Since you signed over your power of attorney, your dad’s lawyer may not even speak to you and it might be better not. I’ve actually heard of schemes like this where the lawyer’s enabled the situation. (not saying this is the case, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility). It might be best to find your own lawyer before deciding on any other action whatsoever. your own lawyer might be able to have a "stay" put on (or something that keeps her away from your father until some of this can be sorted out). If she has Power of Care also, this means decision-making as to treatments or supportive measures, like oxygen etc. There’s a lesson here. Never give up your power of attorney. Papers can be sent to the other person by courier for signature. Sure, it’s a little cumbersome and a little costlier, but then nothing underhanded can happen. At a time, when the focus should be on your father and being with there with/for him, she’s been busily locating and cashing in his money? This really saddens and actually turns my stomach. I just don’t know what else to say, I’m at a loss. I’m sorry about this situation, I’m sorry about your Dad. J
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edit and test. I think in Canada there are no estate taxes, so I can’t see that being an excuse for doing what’s being done. If there were estate taxes, I could see his wanting to cash in as much as possible, ahead of time. And there’s the possibility that this person is holding the cash elsewhere to be distributed later. I don’t know.
Changed "case" to "cash" in the last line. Also testing line length. J
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Thank you and Steph both for the information provided. I appreciate your openess and ability to be frank. Took me a while to get through all the information, and Im still reading. It’s getting worse now. It’s very sad. Thanks for the best wishes. I have one more question, and I don’t know if you or anyone can answer it. The power of attourney of my Dads will has plowed through his bank roll since he was hospitalized, and even cashed in an RRSP 4 years early. Im wondering if anything can be done to stop or freeze the account now that my Dad does not require money at this time.
More Carla (and also testing my line length on this NG). I hear that intestate (no will), government gets 50%. Don’t know if that’s true. Don’t know if all rules are the same for every province. Don’t know if that means they "take" or simply "withhold" until income tax has been sorted out (below). But I do know this, before an estate is settled, an accountant must audit at least the past 7 years for income tax purposes, perhaps even further back before any monies are distributed from an estate. So if this person is trying to circumvent the process, RRSP’s leave a paper trail, the person (who cashed the RRSP’s) will surely be held responsible. Of course, if the person is American (or the funds are being transferred offshore), might be tougher to catch up with him/her. This is my non-lawyer experience with Dad’s estate. In addition, after the accountant’s audit, a paper comes from the Fed Gov’t saying who owes who, what amount and this amount must be acquitted. In addition, an application to Rev Canada for a final Certificate is made as the very last step process. In our case, this was handled by the estate lawyer. Lo and behold, 3 years later, the form arrived, saying that we (the estate) owed money (for what? I do not know, because they’d sent a refund check of $47.00 after the review and confirmation of the accountant. And of course, the lawyer also charged for their role in getting us a bill from Rev Canada, when the accountant had already calculated "no further money owing". What an interesting time that was ! So it’s pretty complicated and someone will catch up to someone else, sooner or later. My opinion, J not a lawyer
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Thank you and Steph both for the information provided. I appreciate your openess and ability to be frank. Took me a while to get through all the information, and Im still reading. It’s getting worse now. It’s very sad. Thanks for the best wishes. I have one more question, and I don’t know if you or anyone can answer it. The power of attourney of my Dads will has plowed through his bank roll since he was hospitalized, and even cashed in an RRSP 4 years early. Im wondering if anything can be done to stop or freeze the account now that my Dad does not require money at this time.
Hello Carla, That’s very sad (on all counts). Power of Attorney for Property, right? Listen, I’m not a lawyer. I suppose it depends how the Power of Attorney is worded and/or if this person since acquired written permission from your Dad to do so (and in a legally binding manner). If they acquired written permission, when he was not thinking right (and you are one of the beneficiaries and/or Executor/Co-Executor of the estate), you may have a case against this person and/or be able to stop the person from doing such. I’ve heard of grave-robbers, but this one takes the cake (unless of course, your Dad had his full faculties and gave written permission to do so). I think in Canada there are no estate taxes, so I can’t see that being an excuse for doing what’s being done. If there were estate taxes, I could see his wanting to cash in as much as possible, ahead of time. And there’s the possibility that this person is holding the case elsewhere to be distributed later. I don’t know. Of course, there may be some agreement that the "power of attorney" can reimburse themselves for costs, like trips to see him, pay off debts etc, and use any readily cashable funds. I don’t know, since I don’t have the paperwork that was signed. If you (or other concerned persons) are one of the beneficiaries of his estate and/or Executor/Co-executor, I would think you could go straight to the lawyer where his will was made up and report/inquire about what’s going on. If you’re not (beneficiary/Executor), you may not have a "say" at all. And would have to consult with your own lawyer about that. Most Provinces also have legal aid where the first half-hour consult is free. There may be other recourse (if you or others have Power of Attorney,) by talking to his bank, but when Dad died all the "talking to the bank" happened through the lawyer (and after the fact). Nobody was "dipping" ahead of time. And I hate to characterize this person that way, because as I said, it depends on what permissions your Dad gave (if/when he was well enough to make such decisions). On the other hand, Carla, if this discussion is going to turn into "well, he left XXX to XXX person and I don’t agree and think I should get XXX", then I have to bow out of this discussion. What your father decided and signed, while he was well, is not up for discussion, here or elsewhere, for me. That’s between you, your father, the lawyer(s) and the family. If there’s no will..and or there may be a higher appeal or any avenue one can pursue. http://www.duhaime.org/ca-power.htm In Ontario, http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/ Other provinces, use this search result and maybe you’ll find for your province <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=+Ca… replace "Canada" with your Province name. I’m sorry thia issue came up at this time. This needs to be a time of low-strife for your Dad and quality family time for all to spend as much good time with your Dad. I wish it for you all. Best, J-not a doctor, nor a lawyer
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Hi J, Thank you and Steph both for the information provided. I appreciate your openess and ability to be frank. Took me a while to get through all the information, and Im still reading. It’s getting worse now. It’s very sad. Thanks for the best wishes. I have one more question, and I don’t know if you or anyone can answer it. The power of attourney of my Dads will has plowed through his bank roll since he was hospitalized, and even cashed in an RRSP 4 years early. Im wondering if anything can be done to stop or freeze the account now that my Dad does not require money at this time. Carla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have spoken with the doctor and nurses almost daily. Im quite angry actually, because he was diagnosed in December, after all other organs and bones and spine was checked as well, and ONLY the left lung was detected. He was sent home and told to wait for a call from his GP. He did not recieve a call to see an oncologist until February. By the time radiation was to begin – 1 week later, the radiation guy was FURIOUS. He could not figure out why it had taken so long to refer him, and did say that – had my dad been sent in december, he could have had up to an 80 to 90% chance of clearing up the lung. But I guess this spreads fast! They can’t give a timeline. I think they’ve stopped doing that because things change sometimes. Thats why I wondered if anyone knew of anyone in a similar situation, and might know how long he may suffer and if there is alternative hope? Even to aleviate some pain if there is no hope. I pray there is hope though! Kim Hi Kim (Carla?) This is what "B Nice" posted earlier for someone else. "Here is the practice guidelines for cancer pain that was used for my treatment at MD Anderson. A detailed flowchart in PDF, but if you can follow it it shows the levels of pain and the treatment. < http://utm-notes-db2.mdacc.tmc.edu/mdacc/cm/cwtguide.nsf/LuHTML/SideBar1 click on Symptom Control and Palliative Care click on Cancer Pain Click here: X to view the graphical Cancer Pain Guideline " Your father’s doctors should help him with pain management or refer him to a pain specialist." Be proactive, print up the pages and talk to his doctors about pain relief. There is no reason why your father need suffer (more than necessary). Marijuana tea would only perhaps be helpful for appetite and/or nausea (caused by chemo treatments, which he is not having). Since chemo’s not an option now, go for the pain & symptom relief. < http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lung/p… There are five types of non-small cell lung cancer. The five types of non-small cell lung cancer have different kinds of cancer cells. The cancer cells of each type grow and spread in different ways. The types of non-small cell lung cancer are named for the kinds of cells found in the cancer and how the cells look when viewed under a microscope: Squamous cell carcinoma: Cancer that begins in squamous cells, which are thin, flat cells that look like fish scales. This is also called epidermoid carcinoma. Adenocarcinoma: Cancer that begins in cells that have glandular (secretory) properties. Large cell carcinoma: Cancer in which the cells are large and look abnormal when viewed under a microscope. Adenosquamous carcinoma: Cancer that begins in cells that look flattened when viewed under a microscope. These cells also have glandular (secretory) properties. Undifferentiated carcinoma: Cancer cells that do not look like normal cells and multiply uncontrollably. Certain factors affect treatment options and prognosis (chance of recovery). The treatment options and prognosis (chance of recovery) depend on the stage of the cancer (whether it is in the lung only or has spread to other places in the body), tumor size, the type of lung cancer, whether there are symptoms, and the patient’s general health. <end I’m very sorry dear. Despite your father’s fairly young age, his history of strokes, and diabetes type II, probably put him in the "complicated health history", I may have mentioned earlier. This is not an excuse for the delay in referral to a radialogist, but might explain, in part, the delay, for the specialists to discuss which treatment if any, would be offered. (or clinical trials). Steph mentioned earlier on this or another newsgroup that all cells feed on sugar, so too cancer cells, so the diabetes may have sped up the spread. If he has "undifferentiated carcinoma", then all strikes were against getting him to chemo early enough and/or it being helpful at all. I note that your e-mail is not munged. If anyone tries to contact you with their version of a "cure" (for $$), please consider what Steph wrote < http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=d6c2e79fa2510db8&seekm=lioa7… One of Steph’s replies earlier….There is no treatment which is likely to have a significant impact on survival time, but much could be done about quality of life issues. Some judicious radiotherapy would help any pain he has. Steroids may help the eating problems. Good analgesic management and symptom management are key. Get a consultation with palliative care specialist and a radiation oncologist… What’s passed is past. You have a right to be angry at the cancer. You can sort out later perhaps why the delay and if it would have made a difference in survival time or not. As a final, I hope you’ll save/bookmark this website and read it as thoroughly as you can. Even the appetite and eating is mentioned there. <http://crossingthecreek.com/ Even if they’d given you a timeline, it’s usually expressed as a median time "XXX weeks/months/years", then they say 50% do better, 50% do worse depending on many details. Not very specific/helpful. That’s where Crossing the Creek may be more helpful to you. The nurses were very helpful in understanding what was happening when Dad died. We watched what they were checking and asked questions. They watch the extremities very carefully, so don’t be afraid to ask them. We usually waited until they’d finished changing his position and various other adjustments, and on their way out, we’d ask them some questions. I’m sorry you found us so late. Steph might have been able to answer your questions (better than I). I’m not a doctor nor a medical professional at all. I can only hope that some of this info is helpful to you/your father and for quality time with your father. My thoughts wil be with you, your father and your family. Best, J
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have spoken with the doctor and nurses almost daily. Im quite angry actually, because he was diagnosed in December, after all other organs and bones and spine was checked as well, and ONLY the left lung was detected. He was sent home and told to wait for a call from his GP. He did not recieve a call to see an oncologist until February. By the time radiation was to begin – 1 week later, the radiation guy was FURIOUS. He could not figure out why it had taken so long to refer him, and did say that – had my dad been sent in december, he could have had up to an 80 to 90% chance of clearing up the lung. But I guess this spreads fast! They can’t give a timeline. I think they’ve stopped doing that because things change sometimes. Thats why I wondered if anyone knew of anyone in a similar situation, and might know how long he may suffer and if there is alternative hope? Even to aleviate some pain if there is no hope. I pray there is hope though! Kim
Hi Kim (Carla?) This is what "B Nice" posted earlier for someone else. "Here is the practice guidelines for cancer pain that was used for my treatment at MD Anderson. A detailed flowchart in PDF, but if you can follow it it shows the levels of pain and the treatment. < http://utm-notes-db2.mdacc.tmc.edu/mdacc/cm/cwtguide.nsf/LuHTML/SideBar1 click on Symptom Control and Palliative Care click on Cancer Pain Click here: X to view the graphical Cancer Pain Guideline " Your father’s doctors should help him with pain management or refer him to a pain specialist." Be proactive, print up the pages and talk to his doctors about pain relief. There is no reason why your father need suffer (more than necessary). Marijuana tea would only perhaps be helpful for appetite and/or nausea (caused by chemo treatments, which he is not having). Since chemo’s not an option now, go for the pain & symptom relief. < http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lung/p… There are five types of non-small cell lung cancer. The five types of non-small cell lung cancer have different kinds of cancer cells. The cancer cells of each type grow and spread in different ways. The types of non-small cell lung cancer are named for the kinds of cells found in the cancer and how the cells look when viewed under a microscope: Squamous cell carcinoma: Cancer that begins in squamous cells, which are thin, flat cells that look like fish scales. This is also called epidermoid carcinoma. Adenocarcinoma: Cancer that begins in cells that have glandular (secretory) properties. Large cell carcinoma: Cancer in which the cells are large and look abnormal when viewed under a microscope. Adenosquamous carcinoma: Cancer that begins in cells that look flattened when viewed under a microscope. These cells also have glandular (secretory) properties. Undifferentiated carcinoma: Cancer cells that do not look like normal cells and multiply uncontrollably. Certain factors affect treatment options and prognosis (chance of recovery). The treatment options and prognosis (chance of recovery) depend on the stage of the cancer (whether it is in the lung only or has spread to other places in the body), tumor size, the type of lung cancer, whether there are symptoms, and the patient’s general health. <end I’m very sorry dear. Despite your father’s fairly young age, his history of strokes, and diabetes type II, probably put him in the "complicated health history", I may have mentioned earlier. This is not an excuse for the delay in referral to a radialogist, but might explain, in part, the delay, for the specialists to discuss which treatment if any, would be offered. (or clinical trials). Steph mentioned earlier on this or another newsgroup that all cells feed on sugar, so too cancer cells, so the diabetes may have sped up the spread. If he has "undifferentiated carcinoma", then all strikes were against getting him to chemo early enough and/or it being helpful at all. I note that your e-mail is not munged. If anyone tries to contact you with their version of a "cure" (for $$), please consider what Steph wrote < http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=d6c2e79fa2510db8&seekm=lioa7… One of Steph’s replies earlier….There is no treatment which is likely to have a significant impact on survival time, but much could be done about quality of life issues. Some judicious radiotherapy would help any pain he has. Steroids may help the eating problems. Good analgesic management and symptom management are key. Get a consultation with palliative care specialist and a radiation oncologist… What’s passed is past. You have a right to be angry at the cancer. You can sort out later perhaps why the delay and if it would have made a difference in survival time or not. As a final, I hope you’ll save/bookmark this website and read it as thoroughly as you can. Even the appetite and eating is mentioned there. <http://crossingthecreek.com/ Even if they’d given you a timeline, it’s usually expressed as a median time "XXX weeks/months/years", then they say 50% do better, 50% do worse depending on many details. Not very specific/helpful. That’s where Crossing the Creek may be more helpful to you. The nurses were very helpful in understanding what was happening when Dad died. We watched what they were checking and asked questions. They watch the extremities very carefully, so don’t be afraid to ask them. We usually waited until they’d finished changing his position and various other adjustments, and on their way out, we’d ask them some questions. I’m sorry you found us so late. Steph might have been able to answer your questions (better than I). I’m not a doctor nor a medical professional at all. I can only hope that some of this info is helpful to you/your father and for quality time with your father. My thoughts wil be with you, your father and your family. Best, J
Response:
Hi Trish, I have spoken with the doctor and nurses almost daily. Im quite angry actually, because he was diagnosed in December, after all other organs and bones and spine was checked as well, and ONLY the left lung was detected. He was sent home and told to wait for a call from his GP. He did not recieve a call to see an oncologist until February. By the time radiation was to begin – 1 week later, the radiation guy was FURIOUS. He could not figure out why it had taken so long to refer him, and did say that – had my dad been sent in december, he could have had up to an 80 to 90% chance of clearing up the lung. But I guess this spreads fast! They can’t give a timeline. I think they’ve stopped doing that because things change sometimes. Thats why I wondered if anyone knew of anyone in a similar situation, and might know how long he may suffer and if there is alternative hope? Even to aleviate some pain if there is no hope. I pray there is hope though! Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carla, I totally agree with J. You need to call, and then go if you are able. Stay in touch, Trish My Dad was diagnosed with non small cell lung cancer in early December 2002. He was not referred for radiation until february. By then he had taken a fall and broke his back. The cancer has now mestatisized (sp) into his spine. His left lung is functioning at maybe 13%, and the back, Im not sure how bad it is. Be frank with me, please. Does anyone know, how much time he might have. He is laid up in a Hospital bed in Canada, and when he is concious, he is terrified. They will be starting radiation soon. But he is to weak to undergo surgery or chemo. Please, any info you can give me, I’d appreciate. Hello Carla, That’s a tough situation and you being so far away. The broken back means he won’t be able to get up and around and sometimes pneumonia sets in, with non-ambulatory patients. The back may have broken because it was weakened by the metastasis. The radiation therapy is probably palliative (for pain). The survival time is often expressed in % and median (half do better, half don’t). With the complication of the broken back, I doubt that anyone here could answer your question and perhaps not even the hospital. What I did was call the ward at the hospital (Canada), told them it’s long distance from XXXX (place), that I’m a close relative and could I please speak to someone who has a good sense of what the situation really was. If you’ve a relative near your Dad, (s)he might know the name of one of the nurses taking care of your Dad. I got lucky and a male nurse answered my question. He was reluctant at first, so I put it to him this way "if it was your Dad, would you go now, or is there time to wait?". He told me to go now. If you’re wanting to see him, then try that. If he has no one close (for /with him), it would be helpful for you to be there, if you can. I went, now knowing how long I’d be there, but had an approximation from what the nurse told me. He’s Stage IV http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lu ng/patient/ If your Dad’s not in a pallative care wing of the hospital, someone should ask that he be transferred to one, if possible. (unless he’s in a critical care wing). Our Canadian hospitals are really pressed for space right now (due to many complicating factors). Perhaps a call there, will answer your question? Best wishes, J
Response:
Hi J, I am close by him. I don’t know how I confused you, but Im here, and yes he is in pallative care, and I know the radiation is for pain management. However, it’s not working. Im afraid it may be in his brain now. Though a scan was done last week to look for brain tumors or abnormalities, and it was clear, today he was having really bad tremors, almost siezure like. He also had one eye closed. He is fading in and out of conciousness. He forgets everything. He can’t tell hot from cold. He asked me for a cold drink and I gave him ice water, and he told me "HE WANTED COLD WATER". So, I gave him a new glass poured from the same jug, and that was much better for him. His extremities are white and cold. He has trouble understanding his surroundings and is asking me alot where he is. 2 weeks ago, though he was weak, he was so coherent, and on the same meds. Pain patches, and tylenol 3. He has not eaten in days. It’s clear to me he is deterorating rapidly, and It’s so damn hard to let go. Im thinking of everything that might ease his pain or help him have a better quality of life. Maybe some marijuana tea, I don’t know anything about alternative medicine for cancer, but if anyone does, Im certainly all ears. I believe in miracles. At the same time, I would do nothing to watch my Dad suffer any further. One good thing, I can walk into that hospital, anytime of the day or night and I can see him and tell him Im here, and I love him. Thank you for the link, I will check it out. My dad is only 65, but has a medical history of several strokes, and diabetes type II. Im sorry for anyone who is going, has gone through this. I never in a million years imagined it was this difficult. Carla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Dad was diagnosed with non small cell lung cancer in early December 2002. He was not referred for radiation until february. By then he had taken a fall and broke his back. The cancer has now mestatisized (sp) into his spine. His left lung is functioning at maybe 13%, and the back, Im not sure how bad it is. Be frank with me, please. Does anyone know, how much time he might have. He is laid up in a Hospital bed in Canada, and when he is concious, he is terrified. They will be starting radiation soon. But he is to weak to undergo surgery or chemo. Please, any info you can give me, I’d appreciate. Hello Carla, That’s a tough situation and you being so far away. The broken back means he won’t be able to get up and around and sometimes pneumonia sets in, with non-ambulatory patients. The back may have broken because it was weakened by the metastasis. The radiation therapy is probably palliative (for pain). The survival time is often expressed in % and median (half do better, half don’t). With the complication of the broken back, I doubt that anyone here could answer your question and perhaps not even the hospital. What I did was call the ward at the hospital (Canada), told them it’s long distance from XXXX (place), that I’m a close relative and could I please speak to someone who has a good sense of what the situation really was. If you’ve a relative near your Dad, (s)he might know the name of one of the nurses taking care of your Dad. I got lucky and a male nurse answered my question. He was reluctant at first, so I put it to him this way "if it was your Dad, would you go now, or is there time to wait?". He told me to go now. If you’re wanting to see him, then try that. If he has no one close (for /with him), it would be helpful for you to be there, if you can. I went, now knowing how long I’d be there, but had an approximation from what the nurse told me. He’s Stage IV http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/treatment/non-small-cell-lung/p… If your Dad’s not in a pallative care wing of the hospital, someone should ask that he be transferred to one, if possible. (unless he’s in a critical care wing). Our Canadian hospitals are really pressed for space right now (due to many complicating factors). Perhaps a call there, will answer your question? Best wishes, J
Response:
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At least my father-in-law says it is…must be true 
Blessings, Michelle 