Trauma - PTSD » Post Traumatic

Something is just "not right"

admin — Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

For some reason my email server will not let me access the newsgroups today, so I temporarily made up an account with Google. This is Gary, the OP on this thread. Thank you so VERY much for the EXTREMELY helpful feedback – I cannot say how much it helped me. It’s very weird being on the other side of the wellness/illness spectrum – add to that a big change and other uninteresting life/existential quagmires and you can get to feeling pretty badly all of a great sudden, and that’s what happened. I will try to do the abc thing more often, as I really liked it. I never did "formal" cognitive behavioral therapy, my doctor does an hour of a sort of "fusion" of a number of things. I don’t profess to say that his approach is "better" or "less good" than formal cbt, but I will say that I did like the abc thing, and will look further into that therapeutic modality. It must be said, in fairness though, that I feel that my doctor HAS helped me (inestimably) a lot over the years – but that doesn’t mean that more couldn’t be added to the soup. From Phillip: "Margrove already came up with the Perfect Reply. Gotta

love the man." I have the highest possible respect for him, have no doubt. – Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Margrove already came up with the Perfect Reply. Gotta love the man. I think another aspect is that you can now unwind after having been on your toes for a long time, too long really. You were stressed out by that job and working long hours. You made a wise decision to quit. But then suddenly there is *nothing* anymore, the causes for stress and anxiety have gone away and here you are, still more or less in fight or flight mode, all aroused, only there is nothing to fight or to flee from. This is IME when us anxiety folk get a setback of some kind. It’s good to do the ABC thing of course. I also believe it will take some time for your system to get back into a more balanced condition, that’s *natural*. This will most certainly pass. Some distraction may also help, do some down to earth things (like vacuuming). "Depression hates a moving target" and I think that adage will be applicable here as well. Please keep us posted! Philip I would like to chime in on what Phil is saying. I once had a job I LOVED but had to quit due to backstabbing and horrible conditions that occurred with upper management. I worked hard and worked long hours. When I made the decision to quit, I felt liberated but, like you Gary, after a while I started feeling like things were not "right." It’s down time and people like us need to be busy all of the time. That’s why I loved that job for so long, because I never had a spare minute. No time to think about panic or anything else. Without that, like I said in an unrelated post yesterday, we tend to sit around and think too much. It’s very easy to fall into that when you are unemployed. I know you will have no problem finding another job and one you will love. You are a very compassionate person and I would be very happy to have you caring for one of my loved ones, if needed. Just try to find some things to do until the time comes for you to work again. I know, easier said than done, but you know I am right!!! Good luck, Gary. Vicki

Response:

dangitall ! i KNEW i should’ah read tha ‘expert’ advice before i posted. ’cept newwwwwww… now i feel like’ah big dork !!! Margrove is brilliant. (maybe it’s the hawaiian air that’s actin’ as an intellectual stimulus… and NEVER discount tha power of tha cabana boy.) i wanna grow up ta be JUST LIKE MARGROVE !!!! greatamundo post, babycakes … KUDOS ! ~tanya

Response:

Suddenly in the past few days, I’m rather ill at ease. It’s a very vague feeling, sort of like "free-floating anxiety"

(it’s gas.) I left the job on good terms, they even threw a small party for me, gave me a gift etc. and I work in a field that is very easy to get employed in (one of the easiest, in fact). I say all this to suggest that I’m not worrying (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) about becoming re-employed, there are no huge problems anywhere around me, and nothing jumps out and screams "THIS, this is why you feel so weird!!"

maybe it’s like that post traumatic syndrome thing. i know when i was in the psych ward it was a situation i HAD to create a ‘focus’ that would get me thru the experience. i actually began to love it there, made many friends, we all cried when i left, (probly because nobody else had ever ‘liked’ it there til me.) but what WAS my other choice? hate it and create more anxiety than i already had (since they removed my xanax from me, ta boot.) my other choice would be to flip out’n end up in state prison and kinda…. NO THANK YOU !! much like your imprisonment dictated your true feelings being most likely ’squelched’ to be able to perform your job effectively. when i was released, i thought it would be the be-all end-all of my situation, but nope… it took me 2-3 weeks to ‘detox’ from being in that place. i wasn’t quite sure why, afterall, it HAD been a wonderful time, an illusion i created to make it thru. i wondered if i’d ever be back to normal, i was beginning to think i would be stuck in this muck forever, there was no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing emotionally seemed to be progressing toward a window of "normalcy"…then BAM. one day i just was. (normalcy, of course, bein’ subjective.) perhaps you’re seeing things in your subconscious you didn’t allow yourself to see for fear of retribution that performing your tasks would ultimately result in if you DID allow these thoughts to enter into the equation. hell, i dunno… i’m lookin’ at the list of responders, so i’ll look at what the experts got ta say, that’s my own dorky take on what’s possible, based on my own experience. (or maybe ya just miss jethro!) I find myself sometimes staring off into the window, looking at the pond behind the house, and I have no real thought process going on – and then there will be some intrusive thought from the past job, some scenario, usually not a good one (in fact, never). I seem to also be waking up, and immediately the very first thing I think about is something about that job.

dang, i kinda stand by my assessment, as clinical as it ain’t. I have worked for a number of hospitals, institutions, etc. and this has never happened to me before. The only time I can recall that I was like this was when the World Trade Center disaster happened – I was sort of "weirded out" for about two weeks, although I think it was a little more pronounced than this – but I honestly don’t remember exactly. It’s all making me wonder if a simple job experience that didn’t go especially well (from an emotional standpoint) could cause someone to actually become traumatized by it, and if so, I wonder how long it might take to improve (from my present state). The WTC event was a ’short-term’ event, relative to the two years spent at this job, so I wonder if that has any utility in predicting anything. Has anyone had experiences like this, and if you did, how did they go for you, how did they play out?

mine played out as i said, then my idiotic motherfucker of a boyfriend DEMANDED i drive 14 hours to his home in florida and he sweatted me so bad i did it. it flipped muh shit so bad i screamed and yelled at him for a week and got physically violent with him til my employees were ready ta come get me in ft. lauderdale and i said ‘fuggit’ and left while he was at work, so that prolonged my recovery from the vacation spot of america, 7th floor of brookwood hospital. i finally just snapped out of it one day, still having dreams and nightmares of this situation, they finally subsided. i guess it was a backlash of suppressing my real feelings of being in there as opposed to the ones i had created to deal with being there. My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down?

seperation anxiety doesn’t have to be from a positive occurance, kinda like ’stockholm syndrome’, i’m thinkin’. maybe tell him ya need a plane ticket ta visit tanya, see’f he’ll chip in a few bucks. BEG, BABY, BEG ! yer gonna be fine. yer real sensitive, ya might’ah had more crap ta deal with that ya couldn’t at the time and now y’are, kinda subconsciously. this is a lucky world based on tha fact that i ain’t a shrink. think how many folks i could fuck up in a single day. I LOVE YOU, LET’S MARRY !!!!! ~tanya

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Margrove already came up with the Perfect Reply. Gotta love the man. I think another aspect is that you can now unwind after having been on your toes for a long time, too long really. You were stressed out by that job and working long hours. You made a wise decision to quit. But then suddenly there is *nothing* anymore, the causes for stress and anxiety have gone away and here you are, still more or less in fight or flight mode, all aroused, only there is nothing to fight or to flee from. This is IME when us anxiety folk get a setback of some kind. It’s good to do the ABC thing of course. I also believe it will take some time for your system to get back into a more balanced condition, that’s *natural*. This will most certainly pass. Some distraction may also help, do some down to earth things (like vacuuming). "Depression hates a moving target" and I think that adage will be applicable here as well. Please keep us posted! Philip

I would like to chime in on what Phil is saying. I once had a job I LOVED but had to quit due to backstabbing and horrible conditions that occurred with upper management. I worked hard and worked long hours. When I made the decision to quit, I felt liberated but, like you Gary, after a while I started feeling like things were not "right." It’s down time and people like us need to be busy all of the time. That’s why I loved that job for so long, because I never had a spare minute. No time to think about panic or anything else. Without that, like I said in an unrelated post yesterday, we tend to sit around and think too much. It’s very easy to fall into that when you are unemployed. I know you will have no problem finding another job and one you will love. You are a very compassionate person and I would be very happy to have you caring for one of my loved ones, if needed. Just try to find some things to do until the time comes for you to work again. I know, easier said than done, but you know I am right!!! Good luck, Gary. Vicki

Response:

Any input on this would be very highly appreciated.

Margrove already came up with the Perfect Reply. Gotta love the man. I think another aspect is that you can now unwind after having been on your toes for a long time, too long really. You were stressed out by that job and working long hours. You made a wise decision to quit. But then suddenly there is *nothing* anymore, the causes for stress and anxiety have gone away and here you are, still more or less in fight or flight mode, all aroused, only there is nothing to fight or to flee from. This is IME when us anxiety folk get a setback of some kind. It’s good to do the ABC thing of course. I also believe it will take some time for your system to get back into a more balanced condition, that’s *natural*. This will most certainly pass. Some distraction may also help, do some down to earth things (like vacuuming). "Depression hates a moving target" and I think that adage will be applicable here as well. Please keep us posted! Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi Gary, Your job kept you busy. Now you are thinking. Remember Anxiety hates a moving target. Yes, I have had similar experiences. Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t quite put my finger on this one. For the past two and 1/2 years, I’ve been working in an institution setting, where people were patients there who did not necessarily want to be. I recently left this job, mostly because I just did not like my role there, and felt I was wasting skills. It was an enormous relief at first to leave. Suddenly in the past few days, I’m rather ill at ease. It’s a very vague feeling, sort of like "free-floating anxiety" (of a mild nature) that isn’t necessarily about anything in particular. I left the job on good terms, they even threw a small party for me, gave me a gift etc. and I work in a field that is very easy to get employed in (one of the easiest, in fact). I say all this to suggest that I’m not worrying (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) about becoming re-employed, there are no huge problems anywhere around me, and nothing jumps out and screams "THIS, this is why you feel so weird!!" I find myself sometimes staring off into the window, looking at the pond behind the house, and I have no real thought process going on – and then there will be some intrusive thought from the past job, some scenario, usually not a good one (in fact, never). I seem to also be waking up, and immediately the very first thing I think about is something about that job. I have worked for a number of hospitals, institutions, etc. and this has never happened to me before. The only time I can recall that I was like this was when the World Trade Center disaster happened – I was sort of "weirded out" for about two weeks, although I think it was a little more pronounced than this – but I honestly don’t remember exactly. It’s all making me wonder if a simple job experience that didn’t go especially well (from an emotional standpoint) could cause someone to actually become traumatized by it, and if so, I wonder how long it might take to improve (from my present state). The WTC event was a ’short-term’ event, relative to the two years spent at this job, so I wonder if that has any utility in predicting anything. Has anyone had experiences like this, and if you did, how did they go for you, how did they play out? I’d be extremely interested to know, and you are welcome to email me privately if you prefer at My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down? Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Gary

Response:

As moronic as your post is, Steve (the Steve who is poisoned), it just actually gave me a really good insight from out of the clear blue sky. My last job, working with sociopaths, forced me to learn to calmly and rationally "observe" them talking to me, rather than engage in all sorts of cathexis with them. I just applied those same skills to the sewage in print that you’ve posted, and thus easily resisted the temptation to say something rude. What the whole moment (or less) pointed out was that I now have MORE skills, and can easily apply them, not LESS of anything. I guess I should thank you for your – well, whatever it is. I lack qualification to define it. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down? Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Gary Gary: As a long time anxiety/panic sufferer, I can say that I have experienced some similar things when leaving a job. In my case, the feelings of depersonalization and derealization never arrived after voluntarily leaving a job, but would almost always hit when being fired or let go. I suppose the feelings of DP/DR after being fired are a shock-type of reaction. Fortunately for me, it’s been a looong time since I’ve been fired from any job, and with increased age and maturity, I’ve come to realize that even if I lost my job tomorrow, I’d have many resources to fall back on. In short, I’d survive. The trick is never to get so attached to a job that it totally defines your identity. Granted, that’s always easier said than done. I won’t presume to know exactly how you feel, but what you describe seems an awful lot like some sort of adjustment issue – your situation has suddenly changed and you feel discombobulated over it. I don’t know what to suggest. But all transitions take time to adjust to. Don’t be too surprised if you experience mild feelings of grief from time to time over having left this job. It’s normal with any significant life transition. So be good to yourself, and give yourself time to adjust to your new circumstances. Perhaps even consider not taking a new job until you feel more grounded. Steve I am Evangelist Linda Mike, The duaghter of Late Sherrif Kindimbu from Weste Africa Nigeria. I am 34years old,my mother is From England,while my father is from Nigeria,I am an half cast (White Girl) I married to Late John from England, I am now a new christian convert,suffering from long time liver problem. OH MAN, SORRY THE BEGINNING PART OF THE MESSAGE IS JUST TO LIGHTEN UP MY POISONING AND TO OFFER A NOTE OF WARNING . THE STEVE THAT POSTED PRIOR IS NOT ME. THAT STEVE HAS THINGS TO FALL BACK ON , I HAVE A COUPLE OF OLD ELLIOT VIDEOS..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down? Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Gary Gary: As a long time anxiety/panic sufferer, I can say that I have experienced some similar things when leaving a job. In my case, the feelings of depersonalization and derealization never arrived after voluntarily leaving a job, but would almost always hit when being fired or let go. I suppose the feelings of DP/DR after being fired are a shock-type of reaction. Fortunately for me, it’s been a looong time since I’ve been fired from any job, and with increased age and maturity, I’ve come to realize that even if I lost my job tomorrow, I’d have many resources to fall back on. In short, I’d survive. The trick is never to get so attached to a job that it totally defines your identity. Granted, that’s always easier said than done. I won’t presume to know exactly how you feel, but what you describe seems an awful lot like some sort of adjustment issue – your situation has suddenly changed and you feel discombobulated over it. I don’t know what to suggest. But all transitions take time to adjust to. Don’t be too surprised if you experience mild feelings of grief from time to time over having left this job. It’s normal with any significant life transition. So be good to yourself, and give yourself time to adjust to your new circumstances. Perhaps even consider not taking a new job until you feel more grounded. Steve I am Evangelist Linda Mike, The duaghter of Late Sherrif Kindimbu from Weste Africa Nigeria. I am 34years old,my mother is From England,while my father is from Nigeria,I am an half cast (White Girl) I married to Late John from England, I am now a new christian convert,suffering from long time liver problem. OH MAN, SORRY THE BEGINNING PART OF THE MESSAGE IS JUST TO LIGHTEN UP MY POISONING AND TO OFFER A NOTE OF WARNING . THE STEVE THAT POSTED PRIOR IS NOT ME. THAT STEVE HAS THINGS TO FALL BACK ON , I HAVE A COUPLE OF OLD ELLIOT VIDEOS..

No need to tell us that the other Steve is not you. But thanks for the laugh anyway… Alice?

Response:

Gary: As a long time anxiety/panic sufferer, I can say that I have experienced some similar things when leaving a job. In my case, the feelings of depersonalization and derealization never arrived after voluntarily leaving a job, but would almost always hit when being fired or let go. I suppose the feelings of DP/DR after being fired are a shock-type of reaction. Fortunately for me, it’s been a looong time since I’ve been fired from any job, and with increased age and maturity, I’ve come to realize that even if I lost my job tomorrow, I’d have many resources to fall back on. In short, I’d survive. The trick is never to get so attached to a job that it totally defines your identity. Granted, that’s always easier said than done. I won’t presume to know exactly how you feel, but what you describe seems an awful lot like some sort of adjustment issue – your situation has suddenly changed and you feel discombobulated over it. I don’t know what to suggest. But all transitions take time to adjust to. Don’t be too surprised if you experience mild feelings of grief from time to time over having left this job. It’s normal with any significant life transition. So be good to yourself, and give yourself time to adjust to your new circumstances. Perhaps even consider not taking a new job until you feel more grounded. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down? Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Gary Gary: As a long time anxiety/panic sufferer, I can say that I have experienced some similar things when leaving a job. In my case, the feelings of depersonalization and derealization never arrived after voluntarily leaving a job, but would almost always hit when being fired or let go. I suppose the feelings of DP/DR after being fired are a shock-type of reaction. Fortunately for me, it’s been a looong time since I’ve been fired from any job, and with increased age and maturity, I’ve come to realize that even if I lost my job tomorrow, I’d have many resources to fall back on. In short, I’d survive. The trick is never to get so attached to a job that it totally defines your identity. Granted, that’s always easier said than done. I won’t presume to know exactly how you feel, but what you describe seems an awful lot like some sort of adjustment issue – your situation has suddenly changed and you feel discombobulated over it. I don’t know what to suggest. But all transitions take time to adjust to. Don’t be too surprised if you experience mild feelings of grief from time to time over having left this job. It’s normal with any significant life transition. So be good to yourself, and give yourself time to adjust to your new circumstances. Perhaps even consider not taking a new job until you feel more grounded. Steve I am

Evangelist Linda Mike, The duaghter of Late Sherrif Kindimbu from Weste Africa Nigeria. I am 34years old,my mother is From England,while my father is from Nigeria,I am an half cast (White Girl) I married to Late John from England, I am now a new christian convert,suffering from long time liver problem. OH MAN, SORRY THE BEGINNING PART OF THE MESSAGE IS JUST TO LIGHTEN UP MY POISONING AND TO OFFER A NOTE OF WARNING . THE STEVE THAT POSTED PRIOR IS NOT ME. THAT STEVE HAS THINGS TO FALL BACK ON , I HAVE A COUPLE OF OLD ELLIOT VIDEOS.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t quite put my finger on this one. For the past two and 1/2 years, I’ve been working in an institution setting, where people were patients there who did not necessarily want to be. I recently left this job, mostly because I just did not like my role there, and felt I was wasting skills. It was an enormous relief at first to leave. Suddenly in the past few days, I’m rather ill at ease. It’s a very vague feeling, sort of like "free-floating anxiety" (of a mild nature) that isn’t necessarily about anything in particular. I left the job on good terms, they even threw a small party for me, gave me a gift etc. and I work in a field that is very easy to get employed in (one of the easiest, in fact). I say all this to suggest that I’m not worrying (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) about becoming re-employed, there are no huge problems anywhere around me, and nothing jumps out and screams "THIS, this is why you feel so weird!!" I find myself sometimes staring off into the window, looking at the pond behind the house, and I have no real thought process going on – and then there will be some intrusive thought from the past job, some scenario, usually not a good one (in fact, never). I seem to also be waking up, and immediately the very first thing I think about is something about that job. I have worked for a number of hospitals, institutions, etc. and this has never happened to me before. The only time I can recall that I was like this was when the World Trade Center disaster happened – I was sort of "weirded out" for about two weeks, although I think it was a little more pronounced than this – but I honestly don’t remember exactly. It’s all making me wonder if a simple job experience that didn’t go especially well (from an emotional standpoint) could cause someone to actually become traumatized by it, and if so, I wonder how long it might take to improve (from my present state). The WTC event was a ’short-term’ event, relative to the two years spent at this job, so I wonder if that has any utility in predicting anything. Has anyone had experiences like this, and if you did, how did they go for you, how did they play out? I’d be extremely interested to know, and you are welcome to email me privately if you prefer at My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down? Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Gary

My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send since you have now taken a serious change in your every day venue, this type of thought and thinking as well as its relational "feeling" of being shell shocked is normal-the habit of work is now gone-a new one may ensure but it isn;t the old one it is different-the aspect of change is something we all seem to find a bit disconcerting do an abc on the ideation a=the adversarial thought here a compound one I am not the same person anymore-I NEVER will be again b-the irrational belief if I am not the same person anymore who am I? How do I define myself, my whole world has now changed and I am unsure if I am prepared to accept the new changes the term Never is another whodunk-it connotes an absolute universal law of always forever and ever-you will be different eternally and although this may be transcendentally true it is not an empirical construct that can be proven empirically so you cannot really use it as a trueism-you may not be the same and yet again you may is more acurate c-the emotional consequence is you feel off-not quite right or having that free floating state of angst d-the dispute You know this one already but I am sure you just let it slip–I am not defined by what I do for a living, where I go each day, what I eat and how I behave. I am more complex then these simplistic aspects of my life-they are after all aspects. I am defined by too many things to allow for any conclusions other then I am a complex ever changing organism-I am a human being not doing e-the rational emotional consequence I am concerned even sad about leaving some of the things about my old job I liked (whatever they are-people busy work etc) I may miss the busy work the people the challenges and activity-but I know I will find some new ones that are as intriguing in their own way gary we are habitual creatures-you are just falling back to some bad negative slightly scary negative habits once you establish a new system a new bunch of things to make up your day these feelings will slough off and disappear once you actually get a few job offers peace LM me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down?

Response:

I can’t quite put my finger on this one. For the past two and 1/2 years, I’ve been working in an institution setting, where people were patients there who did not necessarily want to be. I recently left this job, mostly because I just did not like my role there, and felt I was wasting skills. It was an enormous relief at first to leave. Suddenly in the past few days, I’m rather ill at ease. It’s a very vague feeling, sort of like "free-floating anxiety" (of a mild nature) that isn’t necessarily about anything in particular. I left the job on good terms, they even threw a small party for me, gave me a gift etc. and I work in a field that is very easy to get employed in (one of the easiest, in fact). I say all this to suggest that I’m not worrying (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) about becoming re-employed, there are no huge problems anywhere around me, and nothing jumps out and screams "THIS, this is why you feel so weird!!" I find myself sometimes staring off into the window, looking at the pond behind the house, and I have no real thought process going on – and then there will be some intrusive thought from the past job, some scenario, usually not a good one (in fact, never). I seem to also be waking up, and immediately the very first thing I think about is something about that job. I have worked for a number of hospitals, institutions, etc. and this has never happened to me before. The only time I can recall that I was like this was when the World Trade Center disaster happened – I was sort of "weirded out" for about two weeks, although I think it was a little more pronounced than this – but I honestly don’t remember exactly. It’s all making me wonder if a simple job experience that didn’t go especially well (from an emotional standpoint) could cause someone to actually become traumatized by it, and if so, I wonder how long it might take to improve (from my present state). The WTC event was a ’short-term’ event, relative to the two years spent at this job, so I wonder if that has any utility in predicting anything. Has anyone had experiences like this, and if you did, how did they go for you, how did they play out? I’d be extremely interested to know, and you are welcome to email me privately if you prefer at My cognitive function seems to be usual and I am not any different in any other way, it’s just a sort of "feeling-state" issue. Sometimes i walk around the house feeling almost a little bit like I did pre-treatment with a (very vague) feeling of de-realization, but no de-personalization. I have had one thought a few times which was scary, which was something like "You are not the same person any more, and never will be again". It did not send me into panic (not much would at my present Xanax dose; lol) but was disconcerting, as you might imagine. I’m going to meet with the psychiatrist on Wednesday; any suggestions about any specific things to bring up, besides the obvious stuff I’ve already written down? Any input on this would be very highly appreciated. Gary

Response:

I'm so glad to be back

admin — Sun, 05 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve just visited the world of post traumatic and these people are too weird. Someone accused me of raping her and I don’t have that part of human anatomy and the sex organs I do have don’t work either. I found out she was a person I used to care about too. She cured me of that. So what I got a little drunk and a little crazy and stomped out that is no reason to react the way she did. So I turned her in for nuking me twice after I figured out who it was. Also chasing me down thought I don’t have record of that. She did a number on me. Said because I behaved like this I’d always be alone. I told her being alone is better than listening to her inane drivel. With friends like her who needs enemies.

Response:

<< I’ve just visited the world of post traumatic and these people are too weird. O that’s nice. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

Response:

Thanx for the warm reception. and the hug.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

symptom of postraumatic

admin — Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

a few times I’ve had violent outbursts to intimidations and coercion. I was regularly targetted by bullies so I think that is what caused my post traumatic. So it is important for me to remain calm when someone is threatening me to avoid doing something that I will always wish I could have avoided. Is this normal with post traumatic? I’m afraid to tell anyone because they might think I’m a danger to others. I use violence only when left with no other viable option and I’m careful not to injure anyone unless there is no way to avoid it. I don’t like guns because there is no way to take back a bullet if you know it was wrong. I’d rather not have to do things like that but with human tendency to look the other way I can’t be sure I won’t have to again.

Response:

I’ve been getting the feeling of being targeted, lately. I let little things people do get to me. I don’t usually react, but have before, especially as I was driving. This is kind of unusual for me too, because I’m generally a gentle-natured person. On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:17:52 GMT, Katz Heitmann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: >a few times I’ve had violent outbursts to intimidations and coercion. I >was regularly targetted by bullies so I think that is what caused my >post traumatic. So it is important for me to remain calm when someone >is threatening me to avoid doing something that I will always wish I >could have avoided. >Is this normal with post traumatic? I’m afraid to tell anyone because >they might think I’m a danger to others. I use violence only when left >with no other viable option and I’m careful not to injure anyone unless >there is no way to avoid it. I don’t like guns because there is no way >to take back a bullet if you know it was wrong. I’d rather not have to > do things like that but with human tendency to look the other way I >can’t be sure I won’t have to again.

Response:

> I’ve been getting the feeling of being targeted, lately. I let little > things people do get to me. I don’t usually react, but have before, > especially as I was driving. This is kind of unusual for me too, > because I’m generally a gentle-natured person.

feeling of being attacked was huge with me and still can be…. just went thru that whole scene again. A very big part of ptsd. Survival. What did we all have to survive? Being attacked. I think I always have to be prepared for whatever whenever and that’s not a fun way to live but it’s what I do. I go thru all these possible situation in any given situation so that if and when whatever comes up….I have a game plan. Sometimes I’ve found I didn’t think of everything and then WHAMO I’m in ptsd. For me, the unexpected can set me off. And it all boils down to the crap that caused the ptsd in the first place. A situation can be quite benign but it can set me off with just the small triggers. Nine years of being aware….40 of living with it. But it has gotten better. Donna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:17:52 GMT, Katz Heitmann > wrote: > >a few times I’ve had violent outbursts to intimidations and coercion. I > >was regularly targetted by bullies so I think that is what caused my > >post traumatic. So it is important for me to remain calm when someone > >is threatening me to avoid doing something that I will always wish I > >could have avoided. > >Is this normal with post traumatic? I’m afraid to tell anyone because > >they might think I’m a danger to others. I use violence only when left > >with no other viable option and I’m careful not to injure anyone unless > >there is no way to avoid it. I don’t like guns because there is no way > >to take back a bullet if you know it was wrong. I’d rather not have to > > do things like that but with human tendency to look the other way I > >can’t be sure I won’t have to again.

Response:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:14:08 -0800, "bckwrds" wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’ve been getting the feeling of being targeted, lately. I let little >> things people do get to me. I don’t usually react, but have before, >> especially as I was driving. This is kind of unusual for me too, >> because I’m generally a gentle-natured person. >feeling of being attacked was huge with me and still can be…. >just went thru that whole scene again. A very big part of ptsd. >Survival. What did we all have to survive? Being attacked. >I think I always have to be prepared for whatever whenever >and that’s not a fun way to live but it’s what I do. I go thru all >these possible situation in any given situation so that if and >when whatever comes up….I have a game plan. Sometimes >I’ve found I didn’t think of everything and then WHAMO I’m >in ptsd. For me, the unexpected can set me off. And it all >boils down to the crap that caused the ptsd in the first place. >A situation can be quite benign but it can set me off with just >the small triggers. Nine years of being aware….40 of living >with it. But it has gotten better. >Donna

I feel like I’m just becoming aware of things, myself. The memories have been repressed ever since they happened, in childhood. There has always been a veil of blackness, in an area of my mind that I could never reach, but since I started with therapy I was able to piece things together and get past it. There’s a part of me that wonders why she made the decision to do these things, as if to give us the experience of being abused, so we wouldn’t feel deprived of being raised by someone who was abused. I guess we may still be in denial about some of what happened, and there are still some memories that are blacked out. Thanks for helping me talk about this, I don’t know that I could, face to face with someone, except for my therapist. I feel like my life has changed since I started with this, and its all very positive. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:17:52 GMT, Katz Heitmann >> wrote: >> >a few times I’ve had violent outbursts to intimidations and coercion. I >> >was regularly targetted by bullies so I think that is what caused my >> >post traumatic. So it is important for me to remain calm when someone >> >is threatening me to avoid doing something that I will always wish I >> >could have avoided. >> >Is this normal with post traumatic? I’m afraid to tell anyone because >> >they might think I’m a danger to others. I use violence only when left >> >with no other viable option and I’m careful not to injure anyone unless >> >there is no way to avoid it. I don’t like guns because there is no way >> >to take back a bullet if you know it was wrong. I’d rather not have to >> > do things like that but with human tendency to look the other way I >> >can’t be sure I won’t have to again.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:14:08 -0800, "bckwrds" > wrote: >>>I’ve been getting the feeling of being targeted, lately. I let little >>>things people do get to me. I don’t usually react, but have before, >>>especially as I was driving. This is kind of unusual for me too, >>>because I’m generally a gentle-natured person. >>feeling of being attacked was huge with me and still can be…. >>just went thru that whole scene again. A very big part of ptsd. >>Survival. What did we all have to survive? Being attacked. >>I think I always have to be prepared for whatever whenever >>and that’s not a fun way to live but it’s what I do. I go thru all >>these possible situation in any given situation so that if and >>when whatever comes up….I have a game plan. Sometimes >>I’ve found I didn’t think of everything and then WHAMO I’m >>in ptsd. For me, the unexpected can set me off. And it all >>boils down to the crap that caused the ptsd in the first place. >>A situation can be quite benign but it can set me off with just >>the small triggers. Nine years of being aware….40 of living >>with it. But it has gotten better. >>Donna > I feel like I’m just becoming aware of things, myself. The memories > have been repressed ever since they happened, in childhood. There has > always been a veil of blackness, in an area of my mind that I could > never reach, but since I started with therapy I was able to piece > things together and get past it. There’s a part of me that wonders why > she made the decision to do these things, as if to give us the > experience of being abused, so we wouldn’t feel deprived of being > raised by someone who was abused. I guess we may still be in denial > about some of what happened, and there are still some memories that > are blacked out.

She’s just sick ok and don’t think it’s your fault. What was done in the past is not your fault but what you do now is your responsibility. > Thanks for helping me talk about this, I don’t know that I could, face > to face with someone, except for my therapist. I feel like my life has > changed since I started with this, and its all very positive.

I’m glad you’re here to help me through this part of my past. Sometimes you aren’t ready to deal with those memories yet with time they will come back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:17:52 GMT, Katz Heitmann >>> wrote: >>>>a few times I’ve had violent outbursts to intimidations and coercion. I >>>>was regularly targetted by bullies so I think that is what caused my >>>>post traumatic. So it is important for me to remain calm when someone >>>>is threatening me to avoid doing something that I will always wish I >>>>could have avoided. >>>>Is this normal with post traumatic? I’m afraid to tell anyone because >>>>they might think I’m a danger to others. I use violence only when left >>>>with no other viable option and I’m careful not to injure anyone unless >>>>there is no way to avoid it. I don’t like guns because there is no way >>>>to take back a bullet if you know it was wrong. I’d rather not have to >>>> do things like that but with human tendency to look the other way I >>>>can’t be sure I won’t have to again.

Response:

Transcendence Forums and IRC Chat

admin — Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Heitmann wrote: > In article <20040215173143.21921.00001…@mb-m22.aol.com>, > leighgr…@aol.comtralala says… >>Transcendence Forums and Chat – a message forum and IRC chat room for >>survivors, their partners, supporters, and others who need a safe place to be >>or a place to talk about whatever it is they’re going through. >>We do not consider ourselves victims, we consider ourselves people who have >>been abused in the past. We are not aiming to be professional survivors, we are >>aiming to transcend our pasts and our issues. Rules are kept to a minimum — no >>harrassment or verbal abuse will be tolerated, and we expect people to be >>considerate of others. Other than that, we try to be flexible. >>If you would like to join us, we are glad to have you. >>The forums can be found at www.abusetranscendence.org/phpbb. Instructions on >>how to get to the chat can be found in the forums. >>Leigh (aka Maddie, long ago) > What network is it on?

I found out here is the blurb I created for the chan from the information I got. Anyone who has post traumatic people show up in the channel usually 10pm EST. It’s on sorcerynet in your client you type /server irc.sorcery.net at port 6667. Then when it comes up type /join #transcendence . If you don’t have a client then you can get one at mirc It’s a great chan they don’t try to run your life come on in. They are really nice. They don’t like personal attacks so curb your desire ok. You can swear if you want to but no profanity directed at anyone in the chan. If you don’t have post then come on in as well. If you have any questions email me I can usually figure them out ok. Katz Heitmann.

Response:

In article <20040215173143.21921.00001…@mb-m22.aol.com>, leighgr…@aol.comtralala says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Transcendence Forums and Chat – a message forum and IRC chat room for > survivors, their partners, supporters, and others who need a safe place to be > or a place to talk about whatever it is they’re going through. > We do not consider ourselves victims, we consider ourselves people who have > been abused in the past. We are not aiming to be professional survivors, we are > aiming to transcend our pasts and our issues. Rules are kept to a minimum — no > harrassment or verbal abuse will be tolerated, and we expect people to be > considerate of others. Other than that, we try to be flexible. > If you would like to join us, we are glad to have you. > The forums can be found at www.abusetranscendence.org/phpbb. Instructions on > how to get to the chat can be found in the forums. > Leigh (aka Maddie, long ago)

What network is it on?

Response:

Transcendence Forums and Chat – a message forum and IRC chat room for survivors, their partners, supporters, and others who need a safe place to be or a place to talk about whatever it is they’re going through. We do not consider ourselves victims, we consider ourselves people who have been abused in the past. We are not aiming to be professional survivors, we are aiming to transcend our pasts and our issues. Rules are kept to a minimum — no harrassment or verbal abuse will be tolerated, and we expect people to be considerate of others. Other than that, we try to be flexible. If you would like to join us, we are glad to have you. The forums can be found at www.abusetranscendence.org/phpbb. Instructions on how to get to the chat can be found in the forums. Leigh (aka Maddie, long ago)

Response:

Sweary word necessity

admin — Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"HumungousFungusAmongUs" (omega.po…@ntlworld.com) writes: > Tabernac.

"TabArnaK" is Quebecer for "shhots". "TabErnacLE" is the swear. You missed again:) Try "maudine". Though that one sounds feminine… Let me think:) Erm…How about "maudite marde!"? "Dam sh*t" in France, it means "Oh, shoots", here:) You can go "maudite marde" in front of your boss any day!! "Ah ben maudite marde! J’ai perdu trois dossiers!". I tend to go "shit de marde de mon c.." though… And that si quite okay before your boss as well here:) As in "Shit de marde de mon c…! J’ai perdu *5* dossiers!". Then if the boss says you are fired, you go: "Maudite marde…:(". And it really menas nothign at all here:) Just like you witnessed the word "phoque" was used liberally at supper table on Easter Day, and no one foudn nothing out of place with it. Not one family in Quebec that does not, and woudl they pretend not to, all of us woudl go "Denaise. On a-t’y l’air des anglais???";-) Hehehe:) > {{{RASPBERRYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!}}}

Now now. None fo that on this clean ng, pulease!:):) x – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OTS > "Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message > news:c0h0uj$8ek$1@freenet9.carleton.ca… >> Re: title: send more flowers LOL:) >> "HumungousFungusAmongUs" (omega.po…@ntlworld.com) writes: >> > I watched Gigli – Chloe, it doesn’t count. >> Yes it does. And apart for the word hell, where we all know hell is not >> a sacred place, and thus is not a prophanity to use on its own;-), I see >> nothing in here that could make me have TWO bouquest, *darn* it:(! >> Mitigating circumstances. Even >> > Judge Dredd admitted such when some dude had to receive annoying DJ >> > transmissions through a dental implant or something, and he (the dental > dude >> > implant guy) totally killed the annoying DJ. >> Mppft:) >> At last apointment, dentist changed an old grey filling that was HUGE on a >> big molar, since ages, for a white one. I said out loud "Sigh…No more >> free music downlaods…I used to catch so many radio stations on this >> one!!" >> She and the assistant laughed to tears and kept joking about it as they >> did the new filling, and I could see they did not believe me… >> That was yet the explanation I was given when I would be able to sing >> tunes that did not exist for another x years "yet", some Time back! That > much >> for dentists not believing their own theories… >> Talking about ""anomalies": I saw "Fleabag" to days ago:)….Went to reach >> for a box, and there I saw him, inside the box, over the things in the >> box, laying there, and looking up at me, with a face meaning "don’t move >> me, I am fine here, what’s it to you?":)… He must be at E’s place the >> rest of the time. I think I only saw him three times since June 24 last >> year, when he was euthanized. >> Have not seen "great balls of fire" sicne the forst eyar here and the >> months before that at the previous address, btw… >> I however made a big Time arrangement recently, cut links that were very >> time consuming after the healing, where who knows what’s next:). >> And about oddities too: I heard on the news today that a whole nunch of >> poeple reported UFO sightings last night, where it they were sayign that >> the greatest UFO activity for the night was over Vancouver and Toronto. >> Those two cities having the greatest number of Sino-Canadians, maybe UFO’s >> are better seen with slanting your eyes? >> I cnqa see a commercial idea in that one: selling UFO tape! Would come >> with tape to pull your eyes slanted, and with complementary toothpicks to >> hold the eyes opened for those who want to try and stay up all night >> without blinking:):), mpfft:) >> > If you don’t believe me, then watch the film. However, the next time > Eloi is >> > in town, get the film out and watch it together. Mutual support network. >> :) >> Well, hold that thought!! When YOU next visit, we will not have to fight >> at the video store for a change!!! We can watch it together, with you less >> traumatized and helping me prevent another post-traumatic syndrome:) >> > "Get me behind me, Affleck!". Pledge to disown him if he ever has > creative >> > input on such a POS when he’s in lurve and his paramour is co-starring. > In >> > fact, there ought to be legislation to prevent exactly this kind of > deadly >> > creative activity under those circumstances. >> L:) >> > I have been through hell this eve. Adversity makes us stronger. >> I’m all for weakness. Had it, with growing stronger! >> Well…Save for…You know…;-) >> Someone, make me weak!:) >> Here’s your hug >> ***((((((((OTS)))))))**** >> (See? It’s got knobs on it:)) >> Chloe -wishing we were Friday night. >> > OTS >> > — >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004 >> — > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004

–

Response:

Honestly Chloe it’s not possible to explain to sentient beings how weak Gigli is. People will just have to see it, and then they can complain to me for even putting the idea in their head in the first place. Eerie, honestly it blows a gajillion goats. OTS "HumungousFungusAmongUs" wrote in message

news:c0h3dj$17qkgt$1@ID-73971.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tabernac. > {{{RASPBERRYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!}}} > OTS > "Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message > news:c0h0uj$8ek$1@freenet9.carleton.ca… > > Re: title: send more flowers LOL:) > > "HumungousFungusAmongUs" (omega.po…@ntlworld.com) writes: > > > I watched Gigli – Chloe, it doesn’t count. > > Yes it does. And apart for the word hell, where we all know hell is not > > a sacred place, and thus is not a prophanity to use on its own;-), I see > > nothing in here that could make me have TWO bouquest, *darn* it:(! > > Mitigating circumstances. Even > > > Judge Dredd admitted such when some dude had to receive annoying DJ > > > transmissions through a dental implant or something, and he (the dental > dude > > > implant guy) totally killed the annoying DJ. > > Mppft:) > > At last apointment, dentist changed an old grey filling that was HUGE on a > > big molar, since ages, for a white one. I said out loud "Sigh…No more > > free music downlaods…I used to catch so many radio stations on this > > one!!" > > She and the assistant laughed to tears and kept joking about it as they > > did the new filling, and I could see they did not believe me… > > That was yet the explanation I was given when I would be able to sing > > tunes that did not exist for another x years "yet", some Time back! That > much > > for dentists not believing their own theories… > > Talking about ""anomalies": I saw "Fleabag" to days ago:)….Went to reach > > for a box, and there I saw him, inside the box, over the things in the > > box, laying there, and looking up at me, with a face meaning "don’t move > > me, I am fine here, what’s it to you?":)… He must be at E’s place the > > rest of the time. I think I only saw him three times since June 24 last > > year, when he was euthanized. > > Have not seen "great balls of fire" sicne the forst eyar here and the > > months before that at the previous address, btw… > > I however made a big Time arrangement recently, cut links that were very > > time consuming after the healing, where who knows what’s next:). > > And about oddities too: I heard on the news today that a whole nunch of > > poeple reported UFO sightings last night, where it they were sayign that > > the greatest UFO activity for the night was over Vancouver and Toronto. > > Those two cities having the greatest number of Sino-Canadians, maybe UFO’s > > are better seen with slanting your eyes? > > I cnqa see a commercial idea in that one: selling UFO tape! Would come > > with tape to pull your eyes slanted, and with complementary toothpicks to > > hold the eyes opened for those who want to try and stay up all night > > without blinking:):), mpfft:) > > > If you don’t believe me, then watch the film. However, the next time > Eloi is > > > in town, get the film out and watch it together. Mutual support network. > > :) > > Well, hold that thought!! When YOU next visit, we will not have to fight > > at the video store for a change!!! We can watch it together, with you less > > traumatized and helping me prevent another post-traumatic syndrome:) > > > "Get me behind me, Affleck!". Pledge to disown him if he ever has > creative > > > input on such a POS when he’s in lurve and his paramour is co-starring. > In > > > fact, there ought to be legislation to prevent exactly this kind of > deadly > > > creative activity under those circumstances. > > L:) > > > I have been through hell this eve. Adversity makes us stronger. > > I’m all for weakness. Had it, with growing stronger! > > Well…Save for…You know…;-) > > Someone, make me weak!:) > > Here’s your hug > > ***((((((((OTS)))))))**** > > (See? It’s got knobs on it:)) > > Chloe -wishing we were Friday night. > > > OTS > > > — > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004 > > — > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004

Response:

Tabernac. {{{RASPBERRYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!}}} OTS "Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message

news:c0h0uj$8ek$1@freenet9.carleton.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Re: title: send more flowers LOL:) > "HumungousFungusAmongUs" (omega.po…@ntlworld.com) writes: > > I watched Gigli – Chloe, it doesn’t count. > Yes it does. And apart for the word hell, where we all know hell is not > a sacred place, and thus is not a prophanity to use on its own;-), I see > nothing in here that could make me have TWO bouquest, *darn* it:(! > Mitigating circumstances. Even > > Judge Dredd admitted such when some dude had to receive annoying DJ > > transmissions through a dental implant or something, and he (the dental dude > > implant guy) totally killed the annoying DJ. > Mppft:) > At last apointment, dentist changed an old grey filling that was HUGE on a > big molar, since ages, for a white one. I said out loud "Sigh…No more > free music downlaods…I used to catch so many radio stations on this > one!!" > She and the assistant laughed to tears and kept joking about it as they > did the new filling, and I could see they did not believe me… > That was yet the explanation I was given when I would be able to sing > tunes that did not exist for another x years "yet", some Time back! That much > for dentists not believing their own theories… > Talking about ""anomalies": I saw "Fleabag" to days ago:)….Went to reach > for a box, and there I saw him, inside the box, over the things in the > box, laying there, and looking up at me, with a face meaning "don’t move > me, I am fine here, what’s it to you?":)… He must be at E’s place the > rest of the time. I think I only saw him three times since June 24 last > year, when he was euthanized. > Have not seen "great balls of fire" sicne the forst eyar here and the > months before that at the previous address, btw… > I however made a big Time arrangement recently, cut links that were very > time consuming after the healing, where who knows what’s next:). > And about oddities too: I heard on the news today that a whole nunch of > poeple reported UFO sightings last night, where it they were sayign that > the greatest UFO activity for the night was over Vancouver and Toronto. > Those two cities having the greatest number of Sino-Canadians, maybe UFO’s > are better seen with slanting your eyes? > I cnqa see a commercial idea in that one: selling UFO tape! Would come > with tape to pull your eyes slanted, and with complementary toothpicks to > hold the eyes opened for those who want to try and stay up all night > without blinking:):), mpfft:) > > If you don’t believe me, then watch the film. However, the next time Eloi is > > in town, get the film out and watch it together. Mutual support network. > :) > Well, hold that thought!! When YOU next visit, we will not have to fight > at the video store for a change!!! We can watch it together, with you less > traumatized and helping me prevent another post-traumatic syndrome:) > > "Get me behind me, Affleck!". Pledge to disown him if he ever has creative > > input on such a POS when he’s in lurve and his paramour is co-starring. In > > fact, there ought to be legislation to prevent exactly this kind of deadly > > creative activity under those circumstances. > L:) > > I have been through hell this eve. Adversity makes us stronger. > I’m all for weakness. Had it, with growing stronger! > Well…Save for…You know…;-) > Someone, make me weak!:) > Here’s your hug > ***((((((((OTS)))))))**** > (See? It’s got knobs on it:)) > Chloe -wishing we were Friday night. > > OTS > > — > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004 > —

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004

Response:

I watched Gigli – Chloe, it doesn’t count. Mitigating circumstances. Even Judge Dredd admitted such when some dude had to receive annoying DJ transmissions through a dental implant or something, and he (the dental dude implant guy) totally killed the annoying DJ. If you don’t believe me, then watch the film. However, the next time Eloi is in town, get the film out and watch it together. Mutual support network. "Get me behind me, Affleck!". Pledge to disown him if he ever has creative input on such a POS when he’s in lurve and his paramour is co-starring. In fact, there ought to be legislation to prevent exactly this kind of deadly creative activity under those circumstances. I have been through hell this eve. Adversity makes us stronger. OTS — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004

Response:

Re: title: send more flowers LOL:) "HumungousFungusAmongUs" (omega.po…@ntlworld.com) writes: > I watched Gigli – Chloe, it doesn’t count.

Yes it does. And apart for the word hell, where we all know hell is not a sacred place, and thus is not a prophanity to use on its own;-), I see nothing in here that could make me have TWO bouquest, *darn* it:(! Mitigating circumstances. Even > Judge Dredd admitted such when some dude had to receive annoying DJ > transmissions through a dental implant or something, and he (the dental dude > implant guy) totally killed the annoying DJ.

Mppft:) At last apointment, dentist changed an old grey filling that was HUGE on a big molar, since ages, for a white one. I said out loud "Sigh…No more free music downlaods…I used to catch so many radio stations on this one!!" She and the assistant laughed to tears and kept joking about it as they did the new filling, and I could see they did not believe me… That was yet the explanation I was given when I would be able to sing tunes that did not exist for another x years "yet", some Time back! That much for dentists not believing their own theories… Talking about ""anomalies": I saw "Fleabag" to days ago:)….Went to reach for a box, and there I saw him, inside the box, over the things in the box, laying there, and looking up at me, with a face meaning "don’t move me, I am fine here, what’s it to you?":)… He must be at E’s place the rest of the time. I think I only saw him three times since June 24 last year, when he was euthanized. Have not seen "great balls of fire" sicne the forst eyar here and the months before that at the previous address, btw… I however made a big Time arrangement recently, cut links that were very time consuming after the healing, where who knows what’s next:). And about oddities too: I heard on the news today that a whole nunch of poeple reported UFO sightings last night, where it they were sayign that the greatest UFO activity for the night was over Vancouver and Toronto. Those two cities having the greatest number of Sino-Canadians, maybe UFO’s are better seen with slanting your eyes? I cnqa see a commercial idea in that one: selling UFO tape! Would come with tape to pull your eyes slanted, and with complementary toothpicks to hold the eyes opened for those who want to try and stay up all night without blinking:):), mpfft:) > If you don’t believe me, then watch the film. However, the next time Eloi is > in town, get the film out and watch it together. Mutual support network.

:) Well, hold that thought!! When YOU next visit, we will not have to fight at the video store for a change!!! We can watch it together, with you less traumatized and helping me prevent another post-traumatic syndrome:) > "Get me behind me, Affleck!". Pledge to disown him if he ever has creative > input on such a POS when he’s in lurve and his paramour is co-starring. In > fact, there ought to be legislation to prevent exactly this kind of deadly > creative activity under those circumstances.

L:) > I have been through hell this eve. Adversity makes us stronger.

I’m all for weakness. Had it, with growing stronger! Well…Save for…You know…;-) Someone, make me weak!:) Here’s your hug ***((((((((OTS)))))))**** (See? It’s got knobs on it:)) Chloe -wishing we were Friday night. > OTS > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 – Release Date: 06/02/2004

–

Response:

Why are you all lonely?

admin — Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

> >Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > > >IMO)? > > >By choice, by circumstance, or what?

. Certainly not by choice- I was in a 5 year relationship that ended when she cheated on me with a mutual acquaintance. I moved away, took another job and have worked more than 500 hours a year of overtime in each of the last 5 years. Do I work that much because I’m lonely or am I lonely because I work that much? I don’t think I can use the work as an excuse because, obviously, the end of the relationship was a shattering blow to my self-esteem and self-confidence, so I can’t say I’d be out there meeting women left and right if it weren’t for my job. I am in a community theater group and did meet a woman who seemed to show some interest in me, but now she just ignores me. Marlowe

Response:

Most of the time I don’t feel lonely, even when alone. I enjoy solitude. There are exceptions, however. Like tonight. Maybe its the season? Or the rain? Or the chill I feel? Maybe it’s because I’ve not seen Kathleen in a while, even though we’ve talked? I can’t identify the reason. Maybe there is none. I do feel a great emptiness within me. I feel like crying. Perhaps I will:: tears seem to be cleansing. ~N~ — "Nothing is so strong as gentleness and nothing is so gentle as real strength" ~ Ralph W. Sockman "BC" wrote in message

news:bsjk29$lkn$3@lust.ihug.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > IMO)? > By choice, by circumstance, or what? > <=[BC]=>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>>Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > >>>IMO)? > >>>By choice, by circumstance, or what? > > Alone: because I’m nae a fun person to be with, several people have > > tried spending time with me and all have in the end given it up as a > > bad job, the fundamental problem being that I am EXTREMELY BORING, and > > have very little to say for myself. Also ugly, poor, etc. > > Lonely: because in spite of above disqualifications I would like right > > now to be lying next to a Goddess, rather than strangling Kojak, which > > is how I propose to spend next half hour faute de mieux. > > In addition, I have had toothache for the past week. > Make friends with your dentist… I am sure dentists are interesting > people once you get to know them. After all, what kind of a person > chooses a profession involving the regular examination of other peoples > cavities?

A gynaecologist, a proctologist. I’m sure there are others.

Response:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:18:44 +1300, BC wrote: > Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > IMO)? > By choice, by circumstance, or what?

Uhh, because I don’t like people? No scrub that; because I don’t like /most/ people. Because I find it hard to mix with groups, which tend to make me feel like a spare part, because I have a wacky/caustic/unfunny sense of humour, because in the past few years I have turned into a geek, because I have quite different values and beliefs to most people, because I don’t do any social activities (going to the pub is a loner activity for me, except for that remarkable night I did my "experiment" ). Because I would rather use one long word than six short ones, because I prefer books to (boring) conversation, because I like to live close to life’s marrow (succeeding in doing so is a different matter), because I don’t do and am not interested in any kind of sport whatsoever. Because I’m not shallow, insipid, trashy, narrow-minded, stupid, violent, selfish, greedy, lazy, discriminatory, vain and other things I haven’t thought of, most of which traits belong to most people, and which people tend to respond to in others because they experience these within themselves, or at least I think so. And because other people simply get in the way. So although I have recently met a woman who I believe to be my true compliment, I forsee being lonely as a continuing situation. Monster — Of course I can! I’m British. www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

Little Monster wrote in news:c4cb53af1afc31da0c118a1f215cc5e7@news.teranews.com: > And because other people simply get in the way.

People who don’t want to dig their own graves in an efficient manner before I whack them really annoy me.

Response:

"Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message

news:bsk9oo$rgu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Circumstances made the choice clear for the alst ten years: was assault4ed > and ended up in semi-coma then unable to walk more than a few risky steps > for 3.5 more eyars, then Graves disease developed as a post traumatic > reaction (physical reaction, metabolism accelerating to withstand the > physical shock of assault). Had to rebuild my life entirely. Stilltrying > to get there, if I am back at work in my field, but am not a permanent > employee (yet? never will be??). > Operation was one step towards the face improvement after it was demolished. > Tons of life reorganization to do, more than coudl be said in three yeras, > sicne I have been at it for all that time and am not done yet, from > unpacking to sortign through to simply gettign to be able to pay for > decoration stuff, organizational stuff like filing cabinet, dishwasher, > new used car, yadee yada. Takes forever. > Next step in the "gettign a life back" will be a sleep marathon startign > tomorrow and finding a rental car asd my 16 year odl car died on me and > garages refuse to fix it, so unsafe the car would be by now.Then shop for > a used one. > Such is the plan between now and Jan 1.

ouch, between all that AND the citrus thing, it must REALLY suck to be you. So what drives you – what makes you go on living? What makes you get out of bed each day and… well, live? > You? Why are you lonely/alone:?

Too wimpy/lazy to live life. I’m Asian, but my family moved to NZ when I was around 10. As a result I don’t really fit in – I don’t really belong anywhere. I dislike the asian culture, and I don’t like Asian people. I’m too kiwi to be Asian, but too Asian to be kiwi. The lack of common interests with other people, the lack of self-esteeme and low self-image – those all adds to it. For those reasons (among other things) I don’t have many (if any) friends. And relationship-wise? Like I said I don’t like people of my own race… well, if I don’t like my race, and also if I don’t like myself as a human being, how the hell do I expect someone else to like me? even if I find a girl who seems like enjoy my company, what can I do? I’m boring as hell, sharing no common interests with the people around me. I don’t drink, don’t dance, don’t like eating in public – basically I don’t do any of the things that "normal" people do! I don’t have a car. I live at home. I work 6 days a week – finishing each night around 8:30pm. Now how the hell am I supposed to ask girls out? "I’ve got nothing to say to you babe, but why don’t you drive me to my folks place and I’ll show you my socks?" Who the heck would go out with me with lines like those? It’s hard for me to make friends and such, since EVERYTIME I try, people start of liking me for my sense of humour, but end up disliking me once they get to know the real me. I’m just not interesting or happy enough I guess for people. it’s easier talking to people via e-mail and newsgroups and such, but the same thing happens… After a while I learn to leave my shield and mask up all the time – the mask to keep people from hating me (although it’s getting harder, being interesting and happy all the time), and the shield to push people away, keep them at a distance to keep myself from being hurt. it’s easier just to be alone and depressed I think – at least if I EXPECT to be depressed and alone, I won’t be disappointed or depressed later on when I realise that I’m all alone in this world. (and yes, I’m too depressing I know – even my imaginary friends don’t wanna spend time with me no more… "Sorry, we’re doing something with our friends already" they say… even my imaginary friends have imaginary friends now – scary.) <=[BC]=>

Response:

"Little Monster" wrote in message

news:1c4e032312737c149d9632eba9c8ecf3@news.teranews.com… > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 05:33:34 +1300, BC wrote: > > I’m 23… still young-ish, but too old I think to be all alone, to have > Whuh?? /I’m/ still young-ish, at 36! Tsk, made me feel bloody ancient > there for 17 seconds… > > never dated, to have no friends and no strong ties to people. > Not really. It’s not an age thing, it’s just the way you are. Some of > us were born under a lonesome star – if you really wanted things to be > otherwise, you would most likely have made an effort to surround yourself > with people (yuk!)

but come on! I’m 23 – nearly in my mid 20’s. I have no experience with people – and more specifically no experience with women. No stolen kisses in the schoolyard. No teenage sweetheart. No one to hold hands with. No one to talk to when I’m lonely. No one to cuddle up with on those cold lonely nights. No one to love and be loved by… I don’t know. I grew up and let all that passed me by, thinking hey, if it’s meant to be, it’ll come. Some special girl will come along like in the movies – we’d just click and viola, love will blossom and angels will sing while we dance a slow sweet dance, by the waves and under the spell of the moonlight… I’m 23 – I shouldn’t be spending saturday nights, birthdays and valentines’ alone, typing on the computer at home, alone in my room and feeling sorry for myself… > > I’m Asian (I kinda see that as being… well, different and kinda inferior > > to other people). > I don’t get this bit – why does that make you feel inferior? My > experience of young Moslem and Sikh men is that they think they are the > best thing going, most other young asian men seem to have similar ideas! > As a cultural group, british asians appear to incredibly successful, as a > relatively new addition to society, and much more sorted out than a lot of > british whites I know. Of course, things might be different in other > countries…

That’s one of the reasons why I don’t like my own people. It’s a bit of a generalisation, but it’s mainly true IMO. Asians are rude, loud – they act like drunken buffoons most of the time, and they’re racist and arrogant. Most of them dress like refugees, and look even worse… THIS is how I see my own race… Combine that with my low-self esteeme… can you imagine how I see myself? Seeing myself the way I do, I just can’t imagine anyone else liking me for me. I don’t like my race, I don’t like my family, and I don’t like myself. Everything about me is in conflict – and everytime I try to resolve these conflicts my inner turmoil just gets worse. it’s like I’m trying to cover the black hole of my soul – but it only sucks in whatever I try to use, and it just grows bigger and bigger… > > I feel uncomfortable around people. I don’t know how to act around > > people… and I’m afraid of being around people, especially people I > > like, since I have a low-esteeme, and I constantly afriad of letting > > others down. For those reasons I don’t go to social gatherings. > Do what I do – fake it! In time it stops being scary and you can stop > faking – there’s no need anymore.

No. I already do that, and it’s only making things worse. I put on an act, which attracts people – but the inner me hides from them, pushing them away. "It’s not real", it screams. "They don’t like you – they like your act!" What’s the point of putting on a mask that everyone else likes, when they hate the person behind the mask? Besides, I don’t like hiding behind masks, especially not ones of my own making. It’s dishonest I think. I refuse to laugh when I’m sad; to pretend to be happy when I’m angry; to… what was it that shakespeare said in "Much Ado About Nothing"? About not eating when full and not laugh for someone elses sake or something? It’s like that. I try to be as honest to myself – to my emotions, my thoughts and my ideals… I try to be myself at all times. For better or worse, I’d rather bare my soul, and let the world see me for who and what I am. > > I guess in many ways my loneliness is self-imposed… > Perhaps because you /secretly/ want to be alone?

Maybe – but then why do my heart ache so? Why do I cry these tears of pain and loneliness time after time? Why do I… what’s the point… Why waste my time writing. It’s not doing anything – instead of lightening the heavy burden of my heart, all it’s doing is dragging more muck out, from the darkness and into the light… and oh, it’s spreading. How it’s spread! I can feel it creeping inch by inch, swollowing everything whole… <=[BC]=>

Response:

"eerie rodent of unusual size & typing ability" wrote in message news:Xns946567301A9C8freakingA@68.6.19.6… > Little Monster wrote in > news:1c4e032312737c149d9632eba9c8ecf3@news.teranews.com: > >to surround > > yourself with people (yuk!)

What an offensive notion. At least I don’t have to worry about fending off people, as there are no one around. More relaxing that way, and I get to concentrate on lifes deeper matters instead of incessant bickering. zorn

Response:

"BC" wrote in news:bt47bj$p4r$1@lust.ihug.co.nz: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "eerie rodent of unusual size & typing ability" > wrote in message news:Xns946250AAE1832freakingA@68.6.19.6… >> Little Monster wrote in >> news:c4cb53af1afc31da0c118a1f215cc5e7@news.teranews.com: >> > And because other people simply get in the way. >> People who don’t want to dig their own graves in an efficient manner > before >> I whack them really annoy me. > maybe they wanna be cremated? > <=[BC]=>

I usually give them that option. They’re just lazy.

Response:

Little Monster wrote in news:1c4e032312737c149d9632eba9c8ecf3@news.teranews.com: > On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 05:33:34 +1300, BC wrote: >> I’m 23… still young-ish, but too old I think to be all alone, to >> have > Whuh?? /I’m/ still young-ish, at 36! Tsk, made me feel bloody > ancient there for 17 seconds… >> never dated, to have no friends and no strong ties to people. > Not really. It’s not an age thing, it’s just the way you are. Some > of us were born under a lonesome star – if you really wanted things to > be otherwise, you would most likely have made an effort to surround > yourself with people (yuk!)

I have tried, just very unsuccessfully. Also most ppl seem like dinks.

Response:

"eerie rodent of unusual size & typing ability" wrote in message news:Xns946250AAE1832freakingA@68.6.19.6… > Little Monster wrote in > news:c4cb53af1afc31da0c118a1f215cc5e7@news.teranews.com: > > And because other people simply get in the way. > People who don’t want to dig their own graves in an efficient manner before > I whack them really annoy me.

maybe they wanna be cremated? <=[BC]=>

Response:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 05:33:34 +1300, BC wrote: > I’m 23… still young-ish, but too old I think to be all alone, to have

Whuh?? /I’m/ still young-ish, at 36! Tsk, made me feel bloody ancient there for 17 seconds… > never dated, to have no friends and no strong ties to people.

Not really. It’s not an age thing, it’s just the way you are. Some of us were born under a lonesome star – if you really wanted things to be otherwise, you would most likely have made an effort to surround yourself with people (yuk!) > I’m Asian (I kinda see that as being… well, different and kinda inferior > to other people).

I don’t get this bit – why does that make you feel inferior? My experience of young Moslem and Sikh men is that they think they are the best thing going, most other young asian men seem to have similar ideas! As a cultural group, british asians appear to incredibly successful, as a relatively new addition to society, and much more sorted out than a lot of british whites I know. Of course, things might be different in other countries… > I feel uncomfortable around people. I don’t know how to act around > people… and I’m afraid of being around people, especially people I > like, since I have a low-esteeme, and I constantly afriad of letting > others down. For those reasons I don’t go to social gatherings.

Do what I do – fake it! In time it stops being scary and you can stop faking – there’s no need anymore. > I guess in many ways my loneliness is self-imposed…

Perhaps because you /secretly/ want to be alone? Monster — Of course I can! I’m British. www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

"BC" wrote in message

news:bt46gv$omt$1@lust.ihug.co.nz… > "zorn" wrote in message > news:3fedc44a$0$27462$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk… > How do you know if you’re "clinically depressed"?

Self-diagnosis is in principle not possible. There are some on-line screening tests which should only be taken as loose guides, fx http://www.depression-screening.org/screeningtest/screeningtest.htm . A professional will be needed for actual diagnosis. > Our feelings and emotions > are part of us – they help define who and what we are. I’m NOT a happy > chappy, but I refuse to think of feelings and emotions as being sicknesses, > to be "cured", altered or discarded.

Of course, feelings and emotions are not meant to be "cured" – be they sadness or joy. But look at it this way: if a continuously depressive mood is the /symptom/ of a physiological condition, should the physiological condition thus be allowed to persist? Apart from this – I have sometimes been so fed up with feeling miserable (though not clinically depressed), that I would do many a thing to try and change it – and thereby abandon the idea that the emotions and feelings are "sacred", "correct" or "the fundamental truth of my being". In everyday life one has to rely on emotions and feelings to guide oneself, and to "be". But they are not the fundamental basis of existence from my point of view (and i’m _not_ talking religion). A learned emotional response can be altered, and should, if it really affects ones life in a bad way. ( Someone on asl educated me, that this kind of "self-change talk" is not meaningful for everybody here on asl. I’m talking from my personal point of view, and how I feebly try to manipulate my life into something meaningful. Sometimes I get confused: should I be chasing all this change? Should I not just lay back and take a more relaxed attitude. Accept myself as I am??? Should I rage against the night? Or go quiet into it? Give up? ) > I feel uncomfortable around people. I don’t know how to act around > For those reasons I don’t go to social gatherings.

kind of self-enhancing eh, a bugger to brake these loops > And if you think your interests are weird? Well, everyone’s unique in some > way. Everyone’s different, with different tastes, thoughts and ideas. But > there are billions of people out there – no matter how weird or different > you are, I guarantee there are tons of people out there with the same > thoughts, interests and ideals. The trick is try and find these people.

…and I did find _some_, but because they are so rare, they are located ridiculously far away, and no personal interaction on a regular basis is possible. BTW, _I_ don’t think my interests are weird, it’s people who tell me so. A noticable difference there, I think. Finding people is a most unagreable task, when one is lacking in social talent. Even more tricky to find a special someone of the appropriate sex (which is of course female heh . >It > is often hard, sometimes it might even seem impossible… but nothing is > impossible I think if you believe, if you try hard enough… ahh to dream > that impossible dream, to reach that impossible star! Keep your chin up, > and don’t give up – remember, hope turns to despair if you give up on it!

I hold up a multifaceted mirror, and beam this back to you too and around onto the folks happening to read all the way through this post. > <=[BC]=>

wishes for a better new year! zorn

Response:

"Dynamize" wrote in message

news:bsolia$fip$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk… > Circumstance. I’m irritable, and after the initial novelty of meeting me has > worn off my boring nature and crap conversational skills shine through. Plus > it’s half seven in the morning, I haven’t slept a wink, there’s nothing good > on telly, I’m unipolar and life’s so very grey and mundane.

Wow, I have found my twin I think… (or maybe I have split personalities… did one of my other personalities post this message I wonder?) >Also, I have > dropped out of uni after the first semester at the tender age of 21 because > the course was rubbish. I now have no direction in life. No ambitions, no > goals. I find my friends to be annoying inconveniences. Hardly the makings > of a great lover or interesting social contact is it? > I suppose it’s also choice really, I just don’t feel like being in the > presence of anyone else. Strange. I feel lonely, but I don’t want to talk to > anyone face to face. Ho hum.

Ahh I feel your pain bud. I’m in the same boat. 23, crap life, crap job, no goal in life. Don’t like spending time with people, and it actually annoys me when the people I do know contacts me and wanna do stuff (hey I can’t help it – I work 6 days a week, so it’s understandable that I want me ME time on the one day that I do get off… and not spend the whole day watching your mate play a bloody game on his computer… or have someone come over to use your DVD player…) I have to say though your life probably isn’t gonna get better by itself. The less active you are, the more apathic and lazy you’d become. and as for girls (or guys if you’re a chick)… just keep this in mind: no matter how ugly, boring, or whatever problem you think you might have, there’ll be someone out there who’d find you attractive… I mean hey, there are some pretty weird fetishes out there! <=[BC]=>

Response:

"zorn" wrote in message

news:3fedc44a$0$27462$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk… > Circumstance had it, that I was blessed with alcoholic and psychiatrically > ill parents (one ailment each). I was bestowed with clinical depression > until I sought medical help at the age of 20 (approx).

How do you know if you’re "clinically depressed"? Our feelings and emotions are part of us – they help define who and what we are. I’m NOT a happy chappy, but I refuse to think of feelings and emotions as being sicknesses, to be "cured", altered or discarded. > I cannot know, but I gather that I missed many aspects of youth, that > somehow builds social skills ("dating" and other odd things). And maybe my > "personality" have also suffered in development. But these are really > unknowns. > Today, my tastes in movies and music and books are not mainstream. People > think that I am "strange", and sometimes tell me so, although I am not > extreme in any obvious way. People do not find me interesting and fun to be > with. I am not generally invited to social gatherings. This poses a sort of > externally imposed loneliness, that depends on myself in ways I cannot see > clearly. But I am so tired of this, I would like to be more a member of the > human race. > I do not know how to "get" a girlfriend, but I try and do what I can.

I’m 23… still young-ish, but too old I think to be all alone, to have never dated, to have no friends and no strong ties to people. I don’t know how to act around people, partly due to the fact that I didn’t spend much time with people when I was younger, partly due to the fact that share no common interests with them, and also partly due to the fact that I’m Asian (I kinda see that as being… well, different and kinda inferior to other people). I feel uncomfortable around people. I don’t know how to act around people… and I’m afraid of being around people, especially people I like, since I have a low-esteeme, and I constantly afriad of letting others down. For those reasons I don’t go to social gatherings. I guess in many ways my loneliness is self-imposed… > I feel very different.

One thing I always tell people is that they are NOT alone, no matter how different they are, or how different they feel. You might think "I shouldn’t feel this lonely and depressed, since everyone else around me seems so happy". But chances are the majority of the people have the same doubts, thoughts and feelings – on the inside at least, even if they don’t show it. Just look around you – just read some of the posts in this newsgroup! There ARE others just like you out there. And if you think your interests are weird? Well, everyone’s unique in some way. Everyone’s different, with different tastes, thoughts and ideas. But there are billions of people out there – no matter how weird or different you are, I guarantee there are tons of people out there with the same thoughts, interests and ideals. The trick is try and find these people. It is often hard, sometimes it might even seem impossible… but nothing is impossible I think if you believe, if you try hard enough… ahh to dream that impossible dream, to reach that impossible star! Keep your chin up, and don’t give up – remember, hope turns to despair if you give up on it! <=[BC]=>

Response:

"BC" wrote in message

news:bsjk29$lkn$3@lust.ihug.co.nz… > Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > IMO)? > By choice, by circumstance, or what?

Women consider me worthless because I lack sufficient good looks and money. And even though I require neither of those things from a potential partner, it is still expected of me.

Response:

Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference IMO)? By choice, by circumstance, or what? <=[BC]=>

Response:

The usual answer would be – can’t find the right woman/gal/partner/soulmate/etc – no matter where you are. Whether it be UK, Oz, USA, or even in NZ. The usual reason – is not able to mix socially, not having the right social skills, not having the gumption to ask a gal out for a date, and able to take rejection, etc. If it is the simple matter of finding a gal, then we’d all be married long ago. It’s always wanting the right/suitable partner, that is the problem – being particular. Harvey In article , animusainth…@ihug.co.nzorami says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference >IMO)? >By choice, by circumstance, or what? ><=[BC]=>

Response:

"BC" (animusainth…@ihug.co.nzorami) writes: > Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > IMO)? > By choice, by circumstance, or what? > <=[BC]=>

Circumstances made the choice clear for the alst ten years: was assault4ed and ended up in semi-coma then unable to walk more than a few risky steps for 3.5 more eyars, then Graves disease developed as a post traumatic reaction (physical reaction, metabolism accelerating to withstand the physical shock of assault). Had to rebuild my life entirely. Stilltrying to get there, if I am back at work in my field, but am not a permanent employee (yet? never will be??). Operation was one step towards the face improvement after it was demolished. Tons of life reorganization to do, more than coudl be said in three yeras, sicne I have been at it for all that time and am not done yet, from unpacking to sortign through to simply gettign to be able to pay for decoration stuff, organizational stuff like filing cabinet, dishwasher, new used car, yadee yada. Takes forever. Next step in the "gettign a life back" will be a sleep marathon startign tomorrow and finding a rental car asd my 16 year odl car died on me and garages refuse to fix it, so unsafe the car would be by now.Then shop for a used one. Such is the plan between now and Jan 1. You? Why are you lonely/alone:? C —

Response:

bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore Beaudoin) wrote in news:bsk9oo$rgu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca: > "BC" (animusainth…@ihug.co.nzorami) writes: >> Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference >> IMO)? >> By choice, by circumstance, or what? >> <=[BC]=>

Once my path of vengeance is complete I’m sure circumstances will be improved.

Response:

"BC" wrote in message

news:bsjk29$lkn$3@lust.ihug.co.nz… > Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > IMO)? > By choice, by circumstance, or what? > <=[BC]=>

Circumstance had it, that I was blessed with alcoholic and psychiatrically ill parents (one ailment each). I was bestowed with clinical depression until I sought medical help at the age of 20 (approx). I cannot know, but I gather that I missed many aspects of youth, that somehow builds social skills ("dating" and other odd things). And maybe my "personality" have also suffered in development. But these are really unknowns. Today, my tastes in movies and music and books are not mainstream. People think that I am "strange", and sometimes tell me so, although I am not extreme in any obvious way. People do not find me interesting and fun to be with. I am not generally invited to social gatherings. This poses a sort of externally imposed loneliness, that depends on myself in ways I cannot see clearly. But I am so tired of this, I would like to be more a member of the human race. I do not know how to "get" a girlfriend, but I try and do what I can. I feel very different. zorn

Response:

> In article , animusainth…@ihug.co.nzorami > says… > >Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > >IMO)? > >By choice, by circumstance, or what?

Alone: because I’m nae a fun person to be with, several people have tried spending time with me and all have in the end given it up as a bad job, the fundamental problem being that I am EXTREMELY BORING, and have very little to say for myself. Also ugly, poor, etc. Lonely: because in spite of above disqualifications I would like right now to be lying next to a Goddess, rather than strangling Kojak, which is how I propose to spend next half hour faute de mieux. In addition, I have had toothache for the past week.

Response:

nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) wrote in news:6ebc501c.0312281513.5fe273db@posting.google.com: >> In article , >> animusainth…@ihug.co.nzorami says… >> >Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a >> >difference IMO)? >> >By choice, by circumstance, or what? > Alone: because I’m nae a fun person to be with,

Could be. >several people have > tried spending time with me and all have in the end given it up as a > bad job, the fundamental problem being that I am EXTREMELY BORING

??? >and > have very little to say for myself.

Oh, I don’t think so.

Response:

"BC" wrote in message

news:bsjk29$lkn$3@lust.ihug.co.nz… > Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference > IMO)? > By choice, by circumstance, or what? > <=[BC]=>

Circumstance. I’m irritable, and after the initial novelty of meeting me has worn off my boring nature and crap conversational skills shine through. Plus it’s half seven in the morning, I haven’t slept a wink, there’s nothing good on telly, I’m unipolar and life’s so very grey and mundane. Also, I have dropped out of uni after the first semester at the tender age of 21 because the course was rubbish. I now have no direction in life. No ambitions, no goals. I find my friends to be annoying inconveniences. Hardly the makings of a great lover or interesting social contact is it? I suppose it’s also choice really, I just don’t feel like being in the presence of anyone else. Strange. I feel lonely, but I don’t want to talk to anyone face to face. Ho hum.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OB wrote: >>In article , animusainth…@ihug.co.nzorami >>says… >>>Why are you all alone, or why are you all lonely (there is a difference >>>IMO)? >>>By choice, by circumstance, or what? > Alone: because I’m nae a fun person to be with, several people have > tried spending time with me and all have in the end given it up as a > bad job, the fundamental problem being that I am EXTREMELY BORING, and > have very little to say for myself. Also ugly, poor, etc. > Lonely: because in spite of above disqualifications I would like right > now to be lying next to a Goddess, rather than strangling Kojak, which > is how I propose to spend next half hour faute de mieux. > In addition, I have had toothache for the past week.

Make friends with your dentist… I am sure dentists are interesting people once you get to know them. After all, what kind of a person chooses a profession involving the regular examination of other peoples cavities? .ske (another Munday, *sigh*)

Response:

Twilight's Last Gleaming

admin — Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m not blind nor stupid as the Bushites are.. DW Suiter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you eat paint chips to? — "I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly" R.J. Goldman http://www.usidfvets.com Well stated truth. . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all good. How could it have? Many of America’s mistakes rank among humankind’s most vile atrocities: Manifest Destiny, Native Genocide, The Trail of

Response:

Get your ugly kike ass back to israel, moron!

Response:

& you’re too stupid to understand!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – al953 is to stupid to read the crap he posts….. — "I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly" R.J. Goldman http://www.usidfvets.com This Dom that wrote this is a complete fucking idiot. They should try opening their eyes for once. This hardly describes this country. It describes a false image. . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all

Response:

Oh, really?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This Dom that wrote this is a complete fucking idiot. They should try opening their eyes for once. This hardly describes this country. It describes a false image. . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all good. How could it have? Many of America’s mistakes rank among humankind’s most vile atrocities: Manifest Destiny, Native Genocide, The Trail of Tears, Slavery, Child Labor, Japanese Interment, Racial Segregation. Let’s face it, America was – and is – just a young country. It had been abused by its parents, rebelled, broke away from home, grew to gigantic stature and strength and promise all before learning quite how to behave on its own. Americans have always been left to learn their humanity with little frame of reference save the abuses heaped upon them by the overlords they’d left behind. But unlike us, our forbears learned from their

Response:

you eat paint chips to? — "I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly" R.J. Goldman http://www.usidfvets.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well stated truth. . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all good. How could it have? Many of America’s mistakes rank among humankind’s most vile atrocities: Manifest Destiny, Native Genocide, The Trail of Tears, Slavery, Child Labor, Japanese Interment, Racial Segregation. Let’s face it, America was – and is – just a young country. It had been abused by its parents, rebelled, broke away from home, grew to gigantic stature and strength and promise all before learning quite how to behave on its own. Americans have always been left to learn their humanity with little frame of reference save the abuses heaped upon them by the overlords they’d left behind. But unlike us, our forbears learned from their transgressions. Each segregated immigrant

Response:

Well stated truth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all good. How could it have? Many of America’s mistakes rank among humankind’s most vile atrocities: Manifest Destiny, Native Genocide, The Trail of Tears, Slavery, Child Labor, Japanese Interment, Racial Segregation. Let’s face it, America was – and is – just a young country. It had been abused by its parents, rebelled, broke away from home, grew to gigantic stature and strength and promise all before learning quite how to behave on its own. Americans have always been left to learn their humanity with little frame of reference save the abuses heaped upon them by the overlords they’d left behind. But unlike us, our forbears learned from their transgressions. Each segregated immigrant brought his or her unique experience to America. Many attempted to impose the same injustices they’d come here to escape. Some succeeded. But America alone has both admitted, and corrected the mistakes of its people and its government more willingly than any society before, and we’ve done so on the world stage. We did not hide our transgressions, or deny them, or even lament them very much. We learned of them, and we corrected them. America’s failings were not European, or African, or Asian failings. Neither were they native failings. They were human failings. American

Response:

al953 is to stupid to read the crap he posts….. — "I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly" R.J. Goldman http://www.usidfvets.com

Response:

al953 is to stupid to read the crap he posts…..

Awwww! Now Goldman shows his true AntiAmerican colours. Don’t you think its time for you to pack it back to Israel and stay there? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "I have seen the worst that man can do.and I can still laugh loudly" R.J. Goldman http://www.usidfvets.com This Dom that wrote this is a complete fucking idiot. They should try opening their eyes for once. This hardly describes this country. It describes a false image. . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed

Response:

It describes the dream of what the human condition should aspire to! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This Dom that wrote this is a complete fucking idiot. They should try opening their eyes for once. This hardly describes this country. It describes a false image. . Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all good. How could it have? Many of America’s mistakes rank among humankind’s most vile atrocities: Manifest Destiny, Native Genocide, The Trail of Tears, Slavery, Child Labor, Japanese Interment, Racial Segregation. Let’s face it, America was – and is – just a young country. It had been abused by its parents, rebelled, broke away from home, grew to gigantic stature and strength and promise all before learning quite how to behave on its own. Americans have always been left to learn their humanity with little frame of reference save the abuses heaped upon them by the overlords they’d left behind. But unlike us, our forbears learned from their transgressions. Each segregated

Response:

This Dom that wrote this is a complete fucking idiot. They should try opening their eyes for once. This hardly describes this country. It describes a false image.

Response:

. Twilight’s Last Gleaming "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be…" By Dom Stasi 10/22/03: (ICH) With those words Thomas Jefferson cautioned a newly independent United States of America against the perils of, well. ignorance. Jefferson knew that for any people to govern themselves successfully, they must first become and then remain wise enough to do so. That’s a very grown up responsibility. It requires a willingness to acknowledge transgressions among those in whom we’ve placed sacred trust. It requires accepting that our leaders, whether chosen or presumed, might harbor and respond to political and ideological motivations of a kind we’d perhaps prefer to ignore or otherwise rationalize. But failing or refusing to recognize official deceit is to abdicate ones intellectual liberty and swear blind obedience to authority. That is not very grown up behavior. Neither is it behavior worthy of those who would be free. Yet such is the present. Rather than the enlightened germ of human equality he envisioned, Jefferson’s land of the free would today appear to a him a nightmare utopia, a place whose destiny is being sealed by that same blissfully ignorant, blindly obedient segment of the populace his words so eloquently disdained. The home of the brave he loved with such passion is at once a frightened and frightening behemoth crowding out a world made small by the behemoth’s influence and reach. Democracy’s birthplace has grown to belie the very thing it spawned. But not even Jefferson’s fecund imagination could have dreamed that, in the end, the high office his genius helped create would degenerate into the instrument of exploitation and peril against which he had warned over two centuries ago. Never would Jefferson’s worst nightmares have foretold that his republic of the people, by the people and for the people would meet what might well be its end at the hands of a simple-minded, impossibly inadequate, arrogantly corrupt successor to the very office his own tenure so brilliantly served: that of the President of the United States.1 Yet so it is. The America of our founders was a nation of but two-million, but from their numbers came Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, Betsy Ross, Nathan Hale, and Benjamin Franklin, to name but a few. Today, that nation is become a land divided against both itself and the world, and driven there by the divisive manifestation of its now 280 million people’s dissonance, George W. Bush. Today, to our national shame, we find ourselves enduring the confused leadership of a single wholly unremarkable American fool, who stands before a multitude of American fools, as they gaze dumbly – one upon the other – mutually unaware that the precipice onto which they’ve stumbled, has already cracked beneath their weight. Or worse: aware but in childlike denial of the impending collapse their respective actions and inactions – one toward the other – have assured. It is a collapse whose inevitability the rest of the world – a world of 1.3 billion outraged Muslims and ten-trillion eurodollars – awaits.1,3 That an entire peoples, a society that so fondly considers itself enlightened, would so closely and warmly identify with a president whose abject stupidity, professed irrationality, and legacy of failure-compounding-felonious-failure, stands as a bold and damning testimony of our nation’s susceptibility to exploitation.1 America’s instant mutation from a great and noble society-of-man, into a panic-stricken primeval predator has precedent in the modern world by the likes of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and their own subsequent and dramatic collapses. Today, this once greatest of all nations, this land of the still free, but home of the no-longer-brave, is become more notably home of the advertising agency, the gas guzzler, the Pet Rock, astrology, mystic crystals, faith healers, personal auras, guardian angels, acupuncture, weapons of mass destruction, duct tape, gas masks, militias, armchair warriors, chickenhawks, Nostradamus cults, UFOs, Bible codes, breast enhancing cream, bee sting therapy, snake handlers, missile defense delusions, exploding shoes, TV economists, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, CNN, dangling chads, spiritualism, and bottled water. America – dysfunctional, post-traumatic America – has withdrawn into the somnambulance of self-deception more completely than ever. And since September 11, 2001, more blindly irresponsibly and pointlessly than ever as well, leaving little hope or possibility that anything but grief and remorse will greet our ultimate, and inevitable awakening with the dawn’s early light.2 This country, the Bankrupt States of America, in two short years has endured a self-inflicted collapse of rationality equaled only by the concurrent supernovael collapse of her economy. While we were alternately shaking our fists and cowering in terror, the American economy has been allowed to freefall $600 billion from the most prosperous period in its spectacularly prosperous history to the status of a banana republic economy characterized by a national debt of $6 trillion and a cancerous deficit of $400 billion with neither a single thing to show for it, nor so much as the germ of a plan for recovery. This society of the ostensibly enlightened that casually gives its president another $87 billion it does not have (on top of the $600 billion), adding yet again to the $79 billion it’s already squandered in Iraq alone so that he may further destroy a sovereign country and its institutions, only to presume its reconstruction through corporations his assistants, owners, and family control, is this time perhaps deservedly beyond saving.3,4 America is rushing toward self-destruction. It is being driven there by that which its brilliant founders anticipated, forestalled, and called the Tyranny of the Majority. Every penny in taxes you and I have ever earned and contributed to this country over our entire lives, has been squandered before the alter of misguided ideology. Our dollars, the billions upon billions we’ve contributed as a peoples, are used daily to murder innocents in the name of profit. 5 How, I ask you, how do we not see it? How very much have we never learned from our immigrant ancestors? The shame of it, the stupidity of it, the avoidability of it, each contribute to making America’s fall from the heights it had so recently achieved all the more painful. For after standing as a beacon of hope for four centuries, the brash human experiment that became the American nation entered this new century shining brighter than ever and illuminating a world of never-before possibilities for all its people. America’s successes were to a great degree seen as humanity’s successes. We’d built a big rep for a mongrel society, hell, for any society. A fledgling nation became an unprecedented superpower, a secular, scientific societal model based on human equality for the world to emulate. And make no mistake, it was those successes, piled one upon another through our history, those successes and an open challenge to the world to partake of them, that ended the Cold War, not the unbridled and idiotic military spending of the Reagan years. Look back to understand what we are (or were and can be again), at what we’ve done and what we’ve challenged the world to match. The Mayflower Compact. The Declaration of Independence. The Federalist Papers. The Constitution. The Bill Of Rights. The Emancipation Proclamation. The Marshal Plan. The Voting Rights Act. The Wage Hour Laws. The Civil Rights Act. Each of these declarations was a promise made to ourselves. Each was a world-altering, yet humane act of reformation. Each was a correct and considered response to self-inflicted injustice. Each followed the cognitive recognition of that injustice. Each acknowledged and denounced an affront to humankind before the world. Each was a triumph of the human spirit, and slowly – ever-so-slowly – came to be seen by all of rational humanity as such. Our actions demonstrated to the world that America was before all else, humanitarian. When viewed on balance, of course it’s not been all good. How could it have? Many of America’s mistakes rank among humankind’s most vile atrocities: Manifest Destiny, Native Genocide, The Trail of Tears, Slavery, Child Labor, Japanese Interment, Racial Segregation. Let’s face it, America was – and is – just a young country. It had been abused by its parents, rebelled, broke away from home, grew to gigantic stature and strength and promise all before learning quite how to behave on its own. Americans have always been left to learn their humanity with little frame of reference save the abuses heaped upon them by the overlords they’d left behind. But unlike us, our forbears learned from their transgressions. Each segregated immigrant brought his or her unique experience to America. Many attempted to impose the same injustices they’d come here to escape. Some succeeded. But America alone has both admitted, and corrected the mistakes of its people and its government more willingly than any society before, and we’ve done so on the world stage. We did not hide our transgressions, or deny them, or even lament them very much. We learned of them, and we corrected them. America’s failings were not European, or African, or Asian failings. Neither were they native failings. They were human failings. American triumphs, too, should be shared in credit by all of its people, whatever their shade of pale. So here we stand at the start of a new age, a country founded and populated far, far more by the descendants of atrocity’s victims than by those of its perpetrators. One more time, in what Jefferson called the course of human events our republic is remaking itself. One more time we await the cognitive recognition … read more »

Response:

How many ADDers with Post traumatic are in here

admin — Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (One of the things I had to do was to take a hard look at the characteristics in common of the men I was spending time around. I compared the characteristics of the men who weren’t treating me well and the characteristics of the good men, and I made a list of characteristics for me to avoid. That reduced the number of men with whom I associated who took advantage in one way or another.) Now, make a list of the things you want IN your life. Look closely at that list, then think about what is necessary to bring those things into your life. Making the changes is a hard, slow process, but it can be done. (One instance where I’ve done this has been men. When YS and I first moved to Texas, we were all alone. I had been through a couple of bad relationships since my divorce. I’d learned enough from my first marriage and from those couple of bad relationships that I knew what I *DIDN’T* want in a relationship. I had had one very special relationship that just didn’t work out. That one showed me what I *NEED* in a relationship. From those, I was able to make a list of traits I needed in a man with whom I would have a relationship.)

I know that I would like a man that at least could partially validate what I’m going through. Spends enough time with me and doesn’t think spending time together means watching TV together all the time. MorphGrrl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

I want a resiliant fellow someone who is tough as I am. Also brave enough to stand up to me who will stand his ground. Loves to debate all the time. I want a guy who can laugh at himself. I want to marry a prankster who can take a prank as well as play one and isn’t mean spirited. A little childlike dreamy too. Who loves books and loves to race me across the pool. I want to be childlike with someone. To laugh and play. I love to cuddle just cuddle be close to someone without them interpretting it as an invitation to grab my boobs. I’m watching this great movie leaning against someone arm around them. I want to meet someone who likes my family and who’s family I like. If I don’t pick a guy like that then we’ll spend all our time being stuck between battles between various in laws. It is better to start out with a guy whose parents you get along with because he may seem nice but he’s playing a game actually the parents are a better indicator of how he will behave once you are married. You look at which one he’s most like and that is probably what you are really marrying. Once you marry him you have to deal with all of them probably so just make sure you get along with them or they will drive you crazy. If he grew up with his pops in jail and his mom dealing drugs then chances are you are in for a nightmare. I’d say make sure they aren’t on drugs, violent or out of their damn minds. Or too stuck up. I really hate people who think that society owes them anything. Or they deserve anything from anyone. I mean I don’t say I deserve to be happy because life has been a close approximation of hell. You just take what you can find enjoy it, not make too many demands, make mistakes and learn from them. I may have gotten a lousy hand but I make it count anyway. When I’m scared, lost and damn nearly about to come apart I’ve pulled through. Sometimes no matter what you do you get slammed hard by life. Sometimes I cannot avoid a problem and a few times I’ve gotten hurt because they mistake open acceptance for weakness. Sometimes I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t stand up for someone and confront an authority figure. If there is anything that gets me in trouble is I care too much. I don’t have any use for abusive authority or people who ignore that people are getting hurt. I would stand up to anyone if I believed they were wrong usually I don’t care if they take it out on me later. I cannot stand idly by and watch a teacher humiliate a student in front of his peers. It is part of the damage. My other problem is I really do not like bullies I’m afraid I might lose my temper with a bully and make a mess of things. That’s one thing which gets me in trouble. I just cannot see that and not remember it happening to me over again. It’s a part of who I am I don’t want to get rid of it I don’t think I would be me if I wasn’t that way. I would fight the whole entire school system. I don’t care about all that mess as long as my life matters. When I die I want to have left the world better. It doesn’t matter when I leave or how long I have left I want it to matter. The conformists make their displeasure known. I’ve accepted the fact that I’m going to be fighting bullies and dick wads who think because they have power that gives them the right to do whatever they want and don’t care who takes it up the ass. I’ll be fighting back the terror and holding on until I leave this earth. It was the part I wanted to get rid of because it aggravated my post all the time. Maybe I was just tired of the god damn battles to get them to comply with their own damn laws. I just got fed up with them when they wouldn’t work with me. I mean if I can’t get my mods even though I’m supposed to then I don’t have a chance. If they say look we don’t have no computer, we don’t have the staff so you don’t have to use a bubble sheet but we will let you write on the test. Or we don’t have anywhere to put you since you aren’t finished take the test, go into the hall and come back in when you finish it. That’s reality I cannot get through college when I cannot get my mods. It’s impossible and I kept hitting walls that seemed to serve no purpose in my mind. If they say I want you to figure this out and fix it I don’t care how you do it as long as it doesn’t come back and bite me on the ass. Get me a solution. I want this thing fixed. Just let me deal with it and stay out of my way while I do it. If they don’t like it then they can take it out on my ass later. So I got out of there because keeping from losing my damn mind with these people was too much for me. It seemed to not be going anywhere it was like I had to fight for every inch of turf I got. I was tired from dealing with a useless vindictive coordinator and having to fight the school board as well as learn a year’s worth in a month. I was exhausted from having to deal with a hostile administration then have to deal with a woman who messed with my IEP. Basically while she was trying to make my life interesting I had to act like it wasn’t bothering me. Then I thought ok college is going to be different. I’ll be able to concentrate on learning things that interest me, making friends, and having some fun. Nope I had to deal with the teacher who could make things close to impossible, had to learn the material myself but used to that, working hard was normal. I mean I’m paying good money to be jerked around not get my mods that I’m supposed to and I’m drained. Just once I’d like to go to a school where I don’t have to fight the god damn teachers to get what I’m supposed to by law. I mean I didn’t pass this law the government did. I had nothing to do with it. I decided that I could save myself the headache of dealing with these people by getting the book and learning it myself. Let someone else fight the god damn universities in North Carolina I’m tired. I just want an average job that I can do without a college education. I’ll let the next generation fight these assholes. I’ve done enough for the free loading bums. I have my own life and I haven’t enjoyed much of it. I’ve learned if you are above average with compensations which are impossible to get. Hide in average don’t let anyone find out what you are doing. Or that you aren’t complying with

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m one. I could tell you all the crap I survived but that would be besides the point. Even without knowing the details, just remember the most important words of that line…"I *survived*" Yep. Survival is a good thing. ;-) Kitten

I don’t think I will ever be able to deal with it. Get on with it. I’m afraid because I wonder if that is how my life will always be. No matter what I try to do to help myself it will keep happening because that is how it always was and how it always will be. I think I can deal with it but the fact is I’m tired of people rejecting me IRL and I’m beginning to hate humanity because of it. I know it’s my own fault but I don’t know what to do. It’s like my god damned adolesance instead of teasing, abuse and harrassment it’s not getting jobs that I want. I don’t mind but I’d like to get eliminate the in crowd and get back to where I belong. I’m afraid it is out of america. My aunt is dying of cancer I can’t leave the country. If I leave then I might not be able to get back for her service. I want out of america I think but I can’t leave until I do my bit. I have to my family taught me to fight for my country though my country hates me and would like to get rid of me. Family is important to me but I can’t stand many things about the country of my birth. However I love my family so I can’t leave. It would be abandoning the country of my birth though I have a bone to pick with america that will be settled later in a civilized manner. With no innocent deaths at all. I don’t believe in killing innocent people because of my anger. I don’t believe in dragging others into my fight. So I will not harm the citizens of america or the politicos but I do have a beef with them. It will be settled as civilized as I possibly can and there will be no death or injury.

Response:

OK, Katz. Here’s what bit of help I can give you in a short post. I’ll try to get back to you via email, but we are scheduled to be moving within the next few days. 5 miles isn’t much of a move, except when you’re moving 6 people. :-) You’ve already started on the process needed to implement change in your life. You’ve decided you *want* change. That’s the step we can’t get OS to yet. He’s still stuck in the "I’m unhappy with my life, so I’m going to make everyone else unhappy, too" mode. The next step is to take a good hard look at your life. You grew up the "hard knocks" way. I (and a few other folks here) can definitely understand that. One of the problems with growing up the "hard knocks" way is that it’s hard to change what you’re used to to what you want. You have to identify what it is in your life you want to change. You have to be *VERY* specific about what it is in your life you don’t like. That’s a hard step, and it can be an ugly one. It’s scary as hell. After you’ve identified the specifics you want to change, you need to prioritize them. What do you feel has to be changed RIGHT NOW? What do you feel can wait just a bit but is highly important to you? And what can wait until all the rest is done? Once you’ve got that done, look at each specific item seperately, starting with the first RIGHT NOW item. See if there’s anything you do that contributes to that item happening in your life, and make a list. This is a tough one. Chances are, you contribute in some way, even if it’s something as unnoticeable as the way you carry yourself in certain areas or the people with whom you associate. (One of the things I had to do was to take a hard look at the characteristics in common of the men I was spending time around. I compared the characteristics of the men who weren’t treating me well and the characteristics of the good men, and I made a list of characteristics for me to avoid. That reduced the number of men with whom I associated who took advantage in one way or another.) Now, make a list of the things you want IN your life. Look closely at that list, then think about what is necessary to bring those things into your life. Making the changes is a hard, slow process, but it can be done. (One instance where I’ve done this has been men. When YS and I first moved to Texas, we were all alone. I had been through a couple of bad relationships since my divorce. I’d learned enough from my first marriage and from those couple of bad relationships that I knew what I *DIDN’T* want in a relationship. I had had one very special relationship that just didn’t work out. That one showed me what I *NEED* in a relationship. From those, I was able to make a list of traits I needed in a man with whom I would have a relationship.) Sometimes this process is easier if you remove yourself geographically. Chewy and I both did that when we, seperately, picked up from where we had been and moved to Texas. We put ourselves in new environs, where noone knew us and we could become the people we wished to be. I can’t remember just how young you are, but IIRC you may be within JobCorps guidelines. That might be an avenue to look at. They give you training and teach you how to make changes in your life. We’re looking seriously at that for OS. There are other ways to make changes, but if you’re in the 16-24yo range, JobCorps seems to be a good help. Kitten

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

I’ve decided to put my life in order get myself together make sure I can feed myself and pay my rent before I get involved with anyone. I have to make sure if I screw up and I probably will that I can get rid of the guy and survive on my own. I want a relationship where no one is forced to stay if they don’t want to. If we don’t like each other I mean really don’t click. Someone I can respect when I want to fucking strangle and when we cool off he’ll make me glad I made the effort. Great sense of humor if he’s going to live with me then he’d better have one because I have really crappy luck. I mean for example the sink backs up in my exs dorm room I’m due at a talent show. I help him clean up the mess then run to the talent show and my shirt got well from washing everything. I was cold miserable and hillarious. Somehow even though my life is probably like a comedy of errors and disaster strikes often. I improvise and survive. Men seem to be where I have problems the rest of it is ok so if I have no serious intimate relationship with men for long enough to sort myself out. I’d like a gentle, with a wicked sense of humor, who doesn’t take himself too seriously, I don’t care if he’s ugly physically. If a guy lies once he’ll lie again. If he manipulates me once to get me to like him then he’s gone I get rid of him. A straightforward honest person who I know where I stand with. I hate small talk and I’m scared of crowds too not very good socially. I want a guy who’s introverted or half and half. I specifically want an ADDer who’s my same age or a little younger. Not a buck passer not someone who would blame someone else. Who likes to watch movies, listen to music, play pool, ice skate and swim. Someone who would stay with me if I was throwing up or sit with me and cuddle near a crackling fire on a rainy night watching a murder mystery under my blanket and not have to beat him off you with a baseball bat. I mean I’d like someone who likes to read books and understands why I crave them. Also someone who likes to dance won’t drink all my beer. I don’t mind if has post too or is really fucked up. I’m not marrying a normie no way in hell. I wouldn’t trust one any further than I can throw one. I don’t hate them anymore as much but forgive me if I have a little distrust. If the guy doesn’t tell you the truth how do you know he’s not going to try to kill you. If he has the sudden urge to break a bottle over my head while I’m asleep or wants to attack me for no appearant reason then if he doesn’t tell me in time for me to stop it. Or if I need to take any impliments that can be used for suicide. Or if he needs to go back to the psyche ward for god sakes tell me so I can help. I’m ok if he’s crazy as a loon I don’t mind. I don’t like manipulative guys who will say anything to get you to sleep with them. Color doesn’t matter a strong sense of responsibility, I hate arrogance and hypocracy, not a bully but someone who does what they believe needs to be done. Also someone who doesn’t hate for silly reasons. I hate the normies because of what they did not what religion or color they were. I can’t stand a person who is shallow, conceited and petty. Also someone who is rational practical and honest. As well as wise and forgiving. As long as they don’t have CD traits or ODD at all then I can live with anything from mental illness to an incurable illness, to post traumatic or autism. I’ve lived with some pretty awful things as long as the man doesn’t wet his bed, try to turn me into his mother, hit me on purpose, push my buttons for the hell of it, run for congress or is a compulsive liar. I can deal with him getting arrested, behaving foolishly, accidentally or impulsively knocking me on my ass, I don’t mind if his arm goes wild during a seizure and gives me a bloody nose, I can deal with stuff that would terrify most people clean out their minds. I don’t need a man but I would like one. I don’t want to marry someone who terrifies me. I can’t be loving when I’m scared. Liars terrify me. I don’t want to marry a guy considering a career in politics because it would ruin the private quiet existance I want and need to keep my sanity. I have to have privacy and peace I cannot deal with noise at all. I want to live where I can see the stars, where everyone knows I won’t hurt anyone unless they try to harm me first, where I know everyone in the whole town by sight. That I can be a nonconformist and people don’t mind that I’m different. A small house where I can lie out back and see the stars. I want to be in peace and these assholes who infest the big cities are impossible to entirely block out. It’s difficult to determine whether a person is pretending or really likes you. I just assume all of it is fake. You know how I tell a man is lying his mouth is moving. You could have a criminal record five pages long and I’d still love you. If you lie when I first meet you or try to manipulate me then you could be the hottest guy in the world and I’d still toss you out on your ass. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, make a list of the things you want IN your life. Look closely at that list, then think about what is necessary to bring those things into your life. Making the changes is a hard, slow process, but it can be done. (One instance where I’ve done this has been men. When YS and I first moved to Texas, we were all alone. I had been through a couple of bad relationships since my divorce. I’d learned enough from my first marriage and from those couple of bad relationships that I knew what I *DIDN’T* want in a relationship. I had had one very special relationship that just didn’t work out. That one showed me what I *NEED* in a relationship. From those, I was able to make a list of traits I needed in a man with whom I would have a relationship.) Sometimes this process is easier if you remove yourself geographically. Chewy and I both did that when we, seperately, picked up from where we had been and moved to Texas. We put ourselves in new environs, where noone knew us and we could become the people we wished to be. I can’t remember just how young you are, but IIRC you may be within JobCorps guidelines. That might be an avenue to look at. They give you training and teach you how to make changes in your life. We’re looking seriously at that for OS. There are other ways to make changes, but if you’re in the 16-24yo range, JobCorps seems to be a good help. Kitten

Response:

I’m one. I could tell you all the crap I survived but that would be besides the point.

Even without knowing the details, just remember the most important words of that line…"I *survived*" Buny

Response:

I’m one. I could tell you all the crap I survived but that would be besides the point. Even without knowing the details, just remember the most important words of that line…"I *survived*"

Yep. Survival is a good thing. ;-) Kitten

Response:

I’m one. I could tell you all the crap I survived but that would be besides the point.

Response:

occipital neuralgia

admin — Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi, Teri! I’m Lavon…..and i understand you pain…..so does the larger part of this newsgroup. Don’t let the blank stare (or won’t meet your eye) of your doctor, nor the irritation of your husband make you question your pain or FOR ONE MINUTE own it as your fault. I had to quit working too, and i had two jobs i absolutely adored. My husband is the most patient of men, but even he had anger at the pain, which happened to be living in me. We are fine and he is my quiet strength. But it took help. You are living in a body you don’t recognize now. You might want to consider getting some help introducing the two of you (and hubby makes three Pain is an isolating force. Don’t let it pin you into a corner. TALK with your husband. Let him know it’s okay to be ticked about the situation….and if he doesn’t seem to want to understand the pain, i’ll bet there is a person whom he admires that has some type of pain issues. There are ways to live through this. Otherwise the gun looks way too attractive. Talk. Reach out to friends who want to help, but don’t know how. Ask them to make a meal for you and your fam and deliver it at some point. Ask them to make sandwiches and come have lunch with you some afternoon. Teri, chronic pain is a much different life, but it is a full, rich one….it can be. And there is joy…..i promise, you will know joy again. It’s a long journey, littered with medication side effects, several doctors, friends who want you to try every hack salesjob, etc. But you can do this. Deep peace to you, dear one, Lavon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new… I was in an auto accident 18 months ago. I was hit in the rear and as a result I have a mild brain injury, 4 herniated disk and my entire back is a mess. I had to actually take in info I found on a web site to my DR. (who is treating me for "tension" migraines, but I also have symptoms of the rest of the migraine catagories),before she understood what I have been trying to explain to her about this pain. I am taking neuronton, 300mg. 4 times a day as well as flexeril and vicoden. Since I also have developed fibromyalgia on top of all this she has me taking zoloft. My physical therapist is actually more on top of neuralgia pain than all of thr doctors I have seen. I am at the end of my rope so to speak. No one really seems to understand this pain. I haven’t been back to work because of the pain and my husband really has no concept of any of this. I did have the 2 of the worst disk (c5,6 & 6,7) removed and they fused that part of my neck. The hernia’s were pressed against my spinal cord. I guess it was necessary, but I am still in pain. I don’t want any more surgury. Today is a bad day…..in bed with pain so bad I can’t even stand up…. It really helped to read through all of your messages. Teri

Response:

Hi, I’m new… I was in an auto accident 18 months ago. I was hit in the rear and as a result I have a mild brain injury, 4 herniated disk and my entire back is a mess. I had to actually take in info I found on a web site to my DR. (who is treating me for "tension" migraines, but I also have symptoms of the rest of the migraine catagories),before she understood what I have been trying to explain to her about this pain. I am taking neuronton, 300mg. 4 times a day as well as flexeril and vicoden. Since I also have developed fibromyalgia on top of all this she has me taking zoloft. My physical therapist is actually more on top of neuralgia pain than all of thr doctors I have seen. I am at the end of my rope so to speak. No one really seems to understand this pain. I haven’t been back to work because of the pain and my husband really has no concept of any of this. I did have the 2 of the worst disk (c5,6 & 6,7) removed and they fused that part of my neck. The hernia’s were pressed against my spinal cord. I guess it was necessary, but I am still in pain. I don’t want any more surgury. Today is a bad day…..in bed with pain so bad I can’t even stand up…. It really helped to read through all of your messages. Teri

Response:

Hi Teri, I have not contributed to this group for a long time (possibly years) but happened upon your post today, my second day home after losing a job in part do to my "post traumatic concussive headache with features of migraine". I too was hit from behind, by a Mack truck, in March 1994, but fortunately my injuries were limited to a mild traumatic brain injury, cervical strain and problems with my shoulder. It has been long road, very discouraging at times, but by simply not giving up I have been able to be a father to my now 11 year old daughter, a child whose teachers always compliment me about, rave about her creativity and her sunny demeanor, and her ability to always "make the best" of any given situation. It took me 2.5 years to get forwarded to a pain clinic that actually seemed to understand my pain and the quantity thereof. There I tried, as have most of the members of this group, the entire pharmacopoeia, with little effect, The introduction of Oxycontin however, gave me an immediate drop in frequency of HA from 25-30 per month to 10-15. In those years I ran a small contracting business and I had to leave the field, and just focus on management. Forget growth, I would locate one job, build it and do another. I had a wonderful guy in the field as a super who ran most of the day to day field stuff. In essence i spent about 5 years mostly lying on ice packs, and reading (I have been extremely fortunate in that I have *almost always* been able to read and help distance myself from the pain). In 1999 the doctors insisted I get off the prednisone I had started taking (again) for asthma during my divorce in 1993, lest I have no bone density by the time I was in my mid to late fifties (not as far away as they used to be). During this time, which was like having severe mono for two years I lost my super to a personal crisis of his own, eventually lost my apartment, and had to move back in with mum, no joy at 48. Over the years, *severe* H/A frequency, defined by me as requiring I retreat to icepaks and a cool room, decreased to 1-3 per month. While I have have had moderate 4-7 grade ones off and on, they have mostly been kept at bay with MSIR, Midrin, Migranal and Advil. In the three and a half years I have gone back to being an employee, I have had a number of jobs. This is the first that I can lay a direct line to the H/A’s as a source of loss. Mostly the problem has been the uncertain economy, I lost one directly due to 9/11, one due to a dramatic drop off in sales due to the ramp up to the excursion into Iraq. This last one, I had a H/A before a meeting with a subcontractor on a 2.3 million dollar project, and I am told I "fell asleep" during the meeting". I know I closed my eyes for a few seconds, but really don’t know. My immediate superior accepted the explanation of migraine and meds, warm room, etc., but coupled with another blunder on my part, completely unrelated to headaches, the big boss added 1+1+1 arrived at 7 and decided I should go. There was too much too soon, I had 2 large projects (the other being 2.6 million) and an assistant to keep busy. the assistant was new to the company as well. I know that today, for the first time in 2 weeks I did not wake to a headache, so perhaps I had bitten off more than I could chew. I am telling the story not for sympathy, but to illustrate the distance traveled since 1997-98 when I might not leave the house for a week except to visit my daughter. Just keep plugging along. Things will most likely improve. I certainly never thought they would improve this much,and was told as much by the doctors at one point. Don’t be afraid to ask those around you for help, most likely, they will be glad to do so, as they can feel pretty helpless when things are at their worst for you. Good luck, Jonathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new… I was in an auto accident 18 months ago. I was hit in the rear and as a result I have a mild brain injury, 4 herniated disk and my entire back is a mess. I had to actually take in info I found on a web site to my DR. (who is treating me for "tension" migraines, but I also have symptoms of the rest of the migraine catagories),before she understood what I have been trying to explain to her about this pain. I am taking neuronton, 300mg. 4 times a day as well as flexeril and vicoden. Since I also have developed fibromyalgia on top of all this she has me taking zoloft. My physical therapist is actually more on top of neuralgia pain than all of thr doctors I have seen. I am at the end of my rope so to speak. No one really seems to understand this pain. I haven’t been back to work because of the pain and my husband really has no concept of any of this. I did have the 2 of the worst disk (c5,6 & 6,7) removed and they fused that part of my neck. The hernia’s were pressed against my spinal cord. I guess it was necessary, but I am still in pain. I don’t want any more surgury. Today is a bad day…..in bed with pain so bad I can’t even stand up…. It really helped to read through all of your messages. Teri

Response:

Nice to "see" you Bob. Things getting better? Well, I appreciate you empathy, but I think they have, in many ways, and that was the point I was trying to make. When I lost my super, I had to go out into the *real* world and get a job for the first time in 20+ years. I didn’t dare embark on any project with unknown help, afraid I might have someone’s house apart, and not be able to put it back together, since i couldn’t so it myself. The first one lasted until 9/11 eviscerated the companies business with the Starwood Hotel chain. I built a couple of Sovereign Banks, and had a blast doing it. One was such a tight schedule I was able to choke the subs with money to get on time performance, and the bank didn’t quibble, I had an open checkbook. You know, you’re lucky if you get *one* of those in your lifetime But, when revenue fell, I was one of the two newest in the door. During that time I had to go home once or twice because of H/A, not a big deal. The second job, I was hired by the august *Harvard University* as a Clerk of the Works on a 23 million dollar gut out. OK, except I am used to being in the action, and the Clerk is a pretty passive role. Plus the GC was very good, and did not need any policing.I worked alone. there was no one to notice if I was off my pace on any given day, and I only saw my boss at the weekly job meeting. Harvard, from the inside has a very skewed world view, and I wasn’t really anal enough to survive there and I left to join smaller company in high end residential remodeling last November. Which was the third job. They were hiring until mid January in ‘03 and then started laying off every one as jobs ended in February, and no new ones were being signed. don’t remember H/A being much of a factor there either. This past spring, while "unemployed" I did some "sidework" type jobs and had a blast. I had one guy working with me and was careful to let him do the heavy stuff. Swinging a hammer gives me a H/A. I did a couple of months as a "temp" PM/super, for a company that installed modular classrooms. Most of these things are well beyond what I could imagine doing in 1996-7-98. And that, to me, is the point. I am able to do much more than I ever believed would be possible again. This last experience is discouraging, but there are plenty of projects that can pay a reasonable salary and not be as stressful as two different projects totaling more than 5 million. BTW, I haven’t mentioned it, but I did spend 2.5 years weaning off of prednisone for my asthma, and for reasons no one can clearly explain, the H/A’s got a lot better after that as well. Well, this is too long, and way off topic, except for the point, don’t ever give up hope, and keep putting one foot in front of the other. :Later, Jonathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Jonathan, Great to see you again. Sorry to hear the road hasn’t gotten any easier for you….yet. I’ve been a "small" contractor for all these cluster years just because I knew that I could never hold a job with anyone else. Take care and be well Bud! BobW (yeah, I’m still here LOL)

Response:

Lavon & Sage Thank’s to both of you It is so nice to hear from people who know what this type of pain is all about. I am looking for a neurologist who will take this serious. I had one, he was great! He was in the airforce reserves and was offered the chief of neurology position at Andrews Airforce base, which he accepted. The doctor I ended up seeing is O.K. but I really have to stress the point that I am in pain. She didn’t want to tell me this is occipital neuralgia. The physical therapist, who works with her told her what this was. She was doing the usual treatment for it. I did go through a series of nerve blocks which worked for a short time, but the last one was good only for a few days. The hubby and family are great, they know I hurt but can’t relate to how much or why the head pain never really goes away and how the severe pain can last for day’s at a time. Thanks Teri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Teri! I’m Lavon…..and i understand you pain…..so does the larger part of this newsgroup. Don’t let the blank stare (or won’t meet your eye) of your doctor, nor the irritation of your husband make you question your pain or FOR ONE MINUTE own it as your fault. I had to quit working too, and i had two jobs i absolutely adored. My husband is the most patient of men, but even he had anger at the pain, which happened to be living in me. We are fine and he is my quiet strength. But it took help. You are living in a body you don’t recognize now. You might want to consider getting some help introducing the two of you (and hubby makes three Pain is an isolating force. Don’t let it pin you into a corner. TALK with your husband. Let him know it’s okay to be ticked about the situation….and if he doesn’t seem to want to understand the pain, i’ll bet there is a person whom he admires that has some type of pain issues. There are ways to live through this. Otherwise the gun looks way too attractive. Talk. Reach out to friends who want to help, but don’t know how. Ask them to make a meal for you and your fam and deliver it at some point. Ask them to make sandwiches and come have lunch with you some afternoon. Teri, chronic pain is a much different life, but it is a full, rich one….it can be. And there is joy…..i promise, you will know joy again. It’s a long journey, littered with medication side effects, several doctors, friends who want you to try every hack salesjob, etc. But you can do this. Deep peace to you, dear one, Lavon Hi, I’m new… I was in an auto accident 18 months ago. I was hit in the rear and as a result I have a mild brain injury, 4 herniated disk and my entire back is a mess. I had to actually take in info I found on a web site to my DR. (who is treating me for "tension" migraines, but I also have symptoms of the rest of the migraine catagories),before she understood what I have been trying to explain to her about this pain. I am taking neuronton, 300mg. 4 times a day as well as flexeril and vicoden. Since I also have developed fibromyalgia on top of all this she has me taking zoloft. My physical therapist is actually more on top of neuralgia pain than all of thr doctors I have seen. I am at the end of my rope so to speak. No one really seems to understand this pain. I haven’t been back to work because of the pain and my husband really has no concept of any of this. I did have the 2 of the worst disk (c5,6 & 6,7) removed and they fused that part of my neck. The hernia’s were pressed against my spinal cord. I guess it was necessary, but I am still in pain. I don’t want any more surgury. Today is a bad day…..in bed with pain so bad I can’t even stand up…. It really helped to read through all of your messages. Teri

Response:

Hi Teri and welcome to ASHM. I’m sorry you need to be here, but glad you found us! Hang out for awhile, there’s much to learn and plenty of shoulders to lean on. Hugs, ~Sage

Response:

Hey Jonathan, Great to see you again. Sorry to hear the road hasn’t gotten any easier for you….yet. I’ve been a "small" contractor for all these cluster years just because I knew that I could never hold a job with anyone else. Take care and be well Bud! BobW (yeah, I’m still here LOL)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Teri, I have not contributed to this group for a long time (possibly years) but happened upon your post today, my second day home after losing a job in part do to my "post traumatic concussive headache with features of migraine". I too was hit from behind, by a Mack truck, in March 1994, but fortunately my injuries were limited to a mild traumatic brain injury, cervical strain and problems with my shoulder. It has been long road, very discouraging at times, but by simply not giving up I have been able to be a father to my now 11 year old daughter, a child whose teachers always compliment me about, rave about her creativity and her sunny demeanor, and her ability to always "make the best" of any given situation. It took me 2.5 years to get forwarded to a pain clinic that actually seemed to understand my pain and the quantity thereof. There I tried, as have most of the members of this group, the entire pharmacopoeia, with little effect, The introduction of Oxycontin however, gave me an immediate drop in frequency of HA from 25-30 per month to 10-15. In those years I ran a small contracting business and I had to leave the field, and just focus on management. Forget growth, I would locate one job, build it and do another. I had a wonderful guy in the field as a super who ran most of the day to day field stuff. In essence i spent about 5 years mostly lying on ice packs, and reading (I have been extremely fortunate in that I have *almost always* been able to read and help distance myself from the pain). In 1999 the doctors insisted I get off the prednisone I had started taking (again) for asthma during my divorce in 1993, lest I have no bone density by the time I was in my mid to late fifties (not as far away as they used to be). During this time, which was like having severe mono for two years I lost my super to a personal crisis of his own, eventually lost my apartment, and had to move back in with mum, no joy at 48. Over the years, *severe* H/A frequency, defined by me as requiring I retreat to icepaks and a cool room, decreased to 1-3 per month. While I have have had moderate 4-7 grade ones off and on, they have mostly been kept at bay with MSIR, Midrin, Migranal and Advil. In the three and a half years I have gone back to being an employee, I have had a number of jobs. This is the first that I can lay a direct line to the H/A’s as a source of loss. Mostly the problem has been the uncertain economy, I lost one directly due to 9/11, one due to a dramatic drop off in sales due to the ramp up to the excursion into Iraq. This last one, I had a H/A before a meeting with a subcontractor on a 2.3 million dollar project, and I am told I "fell asleep" during the meeting". I know I closed my eyes for a few seconds, but really don’t know. My immediate superior accepted the explanation of migraine and meds, warm room, etc., but coupled with another blunder on my part, completely unrelated to headaches, the big boss added 1+1+1 arrived at 7 and decided I should go. There was too much too soon, I had 2 large projects (the other being 2.6 million) and an assistant to keep busy. the assistant was new to the company as well. I know that today, for the first time in 2 weeks I did not wake to a headache, so perhaps I had bitten off more than I could chew. I am telling the story not for sympathy, but to illustrate the distance traveled since 1997-98 when I might not leave the house for a week except to visit my daughter. Just keep plugging along. Things will most likely improve. I certainly never thought they would improve this much,and was told as much by the doctors at one point. Don’t be afraid to ask those around you for help, most likely, they will be glad to do so, as they can feel pretty helpless when things are at their worst for you. Good luck, Jonathan Hi, I’m new… I was in an auto accident 18 months ago. I was hit in the rear and as a result I have a mild brain injury, 4 herniated disk and my entire back is a mess. I had to actually take in info I found on a web site to my DR. (who is treating me for "tension" migraines, but I also have symptoms of the rest of the migraine catagories),before she understood what I have been trying to explain to her about this pain. I am taking neuronton, 300mg. 4 times a day as well as flexeril and vicoden. Since I also have developed fibromyalgia on top of all this she has me taking zoloft. My physical therapist is actually more on top of neuralgia pain than all of thr doctors I have seen. I am at the end of my rope so to speak. No one really seems to understand this pain. I haven’t been back to work because of the pain and my husband really has no concept of any of this. I did have the 2 of the worst disk (c5,6 & 6,7) removed and they fused that part of my neck. The hernia’s were pressed against my spinal cord. I guess it was necessary, but I am still in pain. I don’t want any more surgury. Today is a bad day…..in bed with pain so bad I can’t even stand up…. It really helped to read through all of your messages. Teri

Response:

Hi, Teri, Lavon shared some very good thoughts about the way to handle pain, in the psychological sense. It is an unwelcome intruder, but it doesn’t have to rob you blind. BUT… it does take time and patience to wade your way through the disappointments and the new changes it makes in your life. I’ve found a lot of help with a pain psychologist, someone who helps me deal with what I’ve lost, and helps me compensate and find different ways to do things, and most of all, to not feel like any of it is my fault. Pain is a fact in SO many people’s lives, but it need not spell the end of a good life. Hang in and maybe find this kind of specialized psychiatrist, to give you the help you deserve and need with what pain is doing to your life and marriage. As for what it’s doing to you physically, there you need a lot of patience, and a stubbornness about getting competent, compassionate pain care from the right doctors. I’ve hired and fired a slew of them, as has most everyone on this newsgroup. It’s not easy finding the docs who you can relate with well, who "get" what kind of pain you’re having, and will try over and over, whatever it takes, to prevent and/or treat your pain. You have a right NOT to suffer, and more physicians these days are slowly acknowledging pain as a vital sign, just as significant as your temperature and your blood pressure. You may sometimes feel like you’re on an endless, frustrating quest to find that special doc or docs plural, like many of us feel or felt before. Luckily, another lovely Teri on this group publishes a current list of doctors rated by their patients or their peers as truly effective migraine/headache specialists, and you might find yourself a good doctor in your state at: http://headaches.about.com/cs/headacheclinics/ It happens all too frequently that the good ones are nowhere near you. Don’t let that worry you. Many of us travel hundreds of miles to see one of the true experts, for initial diagnosis and treatment plans, then have the plan administered and followed up on by a local doc, who stays in contact with the faraway expert. Then, the actual visits to the expert are few and far between. For instance, my real honchos are in Michigan, and I live in Kansas! And medical travel expenses are tax deductible. Really effective pain doctors are also hard to find, and for a lot of reasons, should be local if possible. If you’d like some resources to locate a pain doc, let me know here, and I’ll gladly give you some links. You might also give your location, only if you want to, and ask the folks here if they can recommend good doctors in your area. Glad you joined us, and hope that you’ll stay with us, and get as much good out of this group as I have, and still do. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new…

Response:

I remember you Jonathan, good to QQ you again! Hugs, ~Sage

Response:

Excellent post, GinBeam! Thank you….you stated a lot of points my brain just won’t handle right now. Teri, we pain an ugly picture. (i actually biffed and typed "pain" intsead of "paint"…..but the biff is more accurate.) I refer to it as a "pain journey" as i’ve seen very few if any folks find the right med and the right doctor on the first try. There are many doctors and many medications and you may never be completely pain free. I’ve been doing this since ‘85 or so. ASHM is here for that journey. We’ve had a fun week…some of the oldies have shown up…YIPPEEEEE!!! sometimes we joke with each other. Often we have a bad pain week and come here for comfort, for a joke, or just to be assured that we aren’t alone. I hope you find some of this for yourself. It’s helped me greatly. Deep peace, Lavon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Teri, Lavon shared some very good thoughts about the way to handle pain, in the psychological sense. It is an unwelcome intruder, but it doesn’t have to rob you blind. BUT… it does take time and patience to wade your way through the disappointments and the new changes it makes in your life. I’ve found a lot of help with a pain psychologist, someone who helps me deal with what I’ve lost, and helps me compensate and find different ways to do things, and most of all, to not feel like any of it is my fault. Pain is a fact in SO many people’s lives, but it need not spell the end of a good life. Hang in and maybe find this kind of specialized psychiatrist, to give you the help you deserve and need with what pain is doing to your life and marriage. As for what it’s doing to you physically, there you need a lot of patience, and a stubbornness about getting competent, compassionate pain care from the right doctors. I’ve hired and fired a slew of them, as has most everyone on this newsgroup. It’s not easy finding the docs who you can relate with well, who "get" what kind of pain you’re having, and will try over and over, whatever it takes, to prevent and/or treat your pain. You have a right NOT to suffer, and more physicians these days are slowly acknowledging pain as a vital sign, just as significant as your temperature and your blood pressure. You may sometimes feel like you’re on an endless, frustrating quest to find that special doc or docs plural, like many of us feel or felt before. Luckily, another lovely Teri on this group publishes a current list of doctors rated by their patients or their peers as truly effective migraine/headache specialists, and you might find yourself a good doctor in your state at: http://headaches.about.com/cs/headacheclinics/ It happens all too frequently that the good ones are nowhere near you. Don’t let that worry you. Many of us travel hundreds of miles to see one of the true experts, for initial diagnosis and treatment plans, then have the plan administered and followed up on by a local doc, who stays in contact with the faraway expert. Then, the actual visits to the expert are few and far between. For instance, my real honchos are in Michigan, and I live in Kansas! And medical travel expenses are tax deductible. Really effective pain doctors are also hard to find, and for a lot of reasons, should be local if possible. If you’d like some resources to locate a pain doc, let me know here, and I’ll gladly give you some links. You might also give your location, only if you want to, and ask the folks here if they can recommend good doctors in your area. Glad you joined us, and hope that you’ll stay with us, and get as much good out of this group as I have, and still do. Ginnie Hi, I’m new…

Response:

YEAH!!!! It’s so good to see you back Jonathan! We’ve missed you here! Your wisdom, support and smiles are much needed at this point LOL So glad you posted! Big Ole Hugs Karen

Response:

anger management

admin — Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

That’s the group you all need to be in. It seems everyone in here has become a troll. Try kicking your dog, swinging the cat around by the tail, or breaking glasses against the wall. Its good therapy…instead of taking it out on other people who you really don’t know. Im addressing the whole fucking group with this message! Take your anger to real life situations where you can really fuck shit up……heres my plan: get piss drunk, get a gun and start walking down the street at night…if anyone says anything to me whether theyre in a car or just walking by….Ill fire at ‘m. Then I think I’ll go into a convenience store and get some more beer…and walk out without paying…if anyone looks at me weird I’ll simply fire at them…hahahhahah…Im just bullshitting, but there’s gotta be better solutions to this anger problem???

Response:

"blacknblue" wrote in message

news:b7362ea0.0310031200.9850638@posting.google.com… > That’s the group you all need to be in. It seems everyone in here has > become a troll. Try kicking your dog, swinging the cat around by the > tail, or breaking glasses against the wall. Its good > therapy…instead of taking it out on other people who you really > don’t know. Im addressing the whole fucking group with this message! > Take your anger to real life situations where you can really fuck shit > up……heres my plan: get piss drunk, get a gun and start walking > down the street at night…if anyone says anything to me whether > theyre in a car or just walking by….Ill fire at ‘m. Then I think > I’ll go into a convenience store and get some more beer…and walk out > without paying…if anyone looks at me weird I’ll simply fire at > them…hahahhahah…Im just bullshitting, but there’s gotta be better > solutions to this anger problem???

Who do think you are??? What right have you got to come along and start preaching??? You are definitely completely insane and no doubt are a megalomaniac suffering from schizophrenic delusions!!! I will hound you from now on until I have you pleading for mercy at the very gates of hell!!! (only kidding) ;)

Response:

crewfan…@yahoo.com (blacknblue) wrote in message … > them…hahahhahah…Im just bullshitting, but there’s gotta be better > solutions to this anger problem???

you could try the prayer that starts off AA meetings, something like grant me the courage to change the things i can change the serenity to accept the things i cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference never been to an AA meeting myself, o’doul’s is the strongest non-precription stuff i use.

Response:

Hi ask John or Pter about it. They bought tons of books and they seem to know how to control their anger. They are experts. But in their case they failed. They came online and started expressing their anger in that way. So there are tons of books out there. Do a search in google and you wilol do fine. god luck!

Response:

On 4 Oct 2003 01:56:55 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >crewfan…@yahoo.com (blacknblue) wrote in message … >> them…hahahhahah…Im just bullshitting, but there’s gotta be better >> solutions to this anger problem??? >you could try the prayer that starts off AA meetings, something like >grant me the courage to change the things i can change >the serenity to accept the things i cannot change >and the wisdom to know the difference >never been to an AA meeting myself, o’doul’s is the strongest >non-precription stuff i use.

You drink O’Douls’s! I’ve always hated the taste of beer and only drink it in appropriate situations (even then I stick to the better tasting beers like Heineken and Dos Equis, no cheap stuff). Drinking beer just for the taste (from my perspective) seems weird.

Response:

John Jay wrote in message > You drink O’Douls’s! I’ve always hated the taste of beer and only > drink it in appropriate situations (even then I stick to the better > tasting beers like Heineken and Dos Equis, no cheap stuff). Drinking > beer just for the taste (from my perspective) seems weird.

hey, it may not be a fancy foreign beer, but it’s not cheap stuff like keystone, either. non-alcoholic beer is a food; i drink it for nutritional purposes. and amber o’doul’s is actually pretty good, although rather hard to find compared to the regular o’doul’s.

Response:

On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >John Jay wrote in message > You drink O’Douls’s! I’ve always hated the taste of beer and only >> drink it in appropriate situations (even then I stick to the better >> tasting beers like Heineken and Dos Equis, no cheap stuff). Drinking >> beer just for the taste (from my perspective) seems weird. >hey, it may not be a fancy foreign beer, but it’s not cheap stuff like >keystone, either.

I haven’t had Keystone, but I assume it has alcohol in it. That’s a step up. > non-alcoholic beer is a food; i drink it for >nutritional purposes.

I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> and amber o’doul’s is actually pretty good, >although rather hard to find compared to the regular o’doul’s.

Response:

John Jay wrote in message … > On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: > I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes > from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. > Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped?

my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting more sleep & exercise.

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On 8 Oct 2003 09:58:37 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >John Jay wrote in message … >> On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >> I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes >> from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. >> Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? >my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & >taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting >more sleep & exercise.

Drinking red wine is extremely good for you. Aspirin, while good, has some major flaws. I don’t know about more sleep but exercise is best. I don’t know enough about non alcoholic beer to comment. If it’s anything like regular beer it’s empty calories.

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John Jay wrote in message … > Drinking red wine is extremely good for you. Aspirin, while good, has > some major flaws. I don’t know about more sleep but exercise is best. > I don’t know enough about non alcoholic beer to comment. If it’s > anything like regular beer it’s empty calories.

fyi, here’s american heart association’s commentary on red wine, from http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4422 note the reference to lifestyle and direct comparison trials. Over the past several decades, many studies have been published in science journals about how drinking alcohol may be associated with reduced mortality due to heart disease in some populations. Some researchers have suggested that the benefit may be due to wine, especially red wine. Others are examining the potential benefits of components in red wine such as flavonoids (FLAV’oh-noidz) and other antioxidants (an"tih-OK’sih-dants) in reducing heart disease risk. Some of these components may be found in other foods such as grapes or red grape juice. The linkage reported in many of these studies may be due to other lifestyle factors rather than alcohol. Such factors may include increased physical activity, and a diet high in fruits and vegetables and lower in saturated fats No direct comparison trials have been done to determine the specific effect of wine or other alcohol on the risk of developing heart disease or stroke.

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yitwail wrote: > John Jay wrote in message … >>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes >>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. >>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? > my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & > taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting > more sleep & exercise.

I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you are laughing at or might hurt you.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Katz Heitmann wrote in message … > yitwail wrote: > > John Jay wrote in message … > >>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: > >>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes > >>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. > >>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? > > my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & > > taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting > > more sleep & exercise. > I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone > you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I > guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the > person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a > ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you > are laughing at or might hurt you.

good one. but can’t punch a bag & drive–what passes for driving really–on a gridlocked freeway. i can only take so much of people speeding up as soon as they see my lane change signal or getting in front of me without signalling and making me hit the brakes until i yell. i think the root problem isn’t expressing anger, it’s feeling anger; but if you’re angry already, might as well vent it in a harmless way.

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My son takes a hammer and a couple 2×4’s and beats the heck out of ‘em… he really gets it out that way. New trick he learned. Crackwalker "Katz Heitmann" wrote in message

news:fJnlb.12204$Uz6.8411@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net… > yitwail wrote: > > John Jay wrote in message

… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: > >>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes > >>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. > >>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? > > my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & > > taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting > > more sleep & exercise. > I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone > you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I > guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the > person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a > ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you > are laughing at or might hurt you.

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Jim Summers87 wrote: >>From the moment he sat down, I wanted to kick the bitch in the >>head. > I think of more creative ways of humiliation. Perhaps shaving her head would > be more satisfying? It’s slower and drags out the degradation longer…

You should have dropped a piece of used chewing gum in her hair and then moved somewhere else in the theater. Why a gob of chewing gum? Cause it is hard to get out of hair it will ruin her hairdo. I hate the people who talk during the picture. You cannot get arrested for dropping a gob of chewing gum into a person’s hair but if you kick her in the head that is assault. In the dark of a theater she won’t see your face so she won’t know who did it and then you move to another section before she finds the gum in her hair.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Katz Heitmann wrote in message … > Have you thought of moving out of the city or closer to the places you > have to go so you can walk or take the bus. Let someone else drive or > walk. So you don’t have to drive on the crowded freeway all the time. > Or you could throw an empty bottle at their back windshield when they do > that. Or a wet bag of flower. I was thinking a paint ball gun fire a > paint ball at their back windshield. Or a wad of chewing gum into their > open window as they pass you. Or onto their window as they hurl past > you. They might hit someone else and get into an accident even without > that. Just realize they are stupid immature and will probably wrap > their car around a tree eventually and drive carefully try not to play > their game. They want to deliberately make you mad are you going to let > them make you angry? Are you going to let them have control over your > moods? You are a grown man so why do you let stupid people make you > angry? One day someone is going to kill them or they will do themselves > in all you have to do is stand by and don’t get mixed up in their death.

i have been trying to move somewhere closer to my workplace for months, but things haven’t worked out so far. what i feel like doing isn’t necessarily what i ought to do, which is to ignore as you point out. but sometimes i react emotionally. besides yelling, i do sarcastic things sometimes like applauding or blowing a kiss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You see their actions doom them they are foolish you know better. So > stay away from them avoid them stay to the right lane drive a > comfortable speed and let them be fools. Do not be fools with them. Do > not allow their foolish behavior to affect you. Just listen to your > music and think of it as private time and all the weird aggressive and > boneheaded behavior as part of the landscape. You can navigate them > without becoming angry or losing your composure since everytime you get > tense you are less able to cope with the pattern. Every time you work > within the pattern established whether you like what the other drivers > do or not you are better able to cope with the changes. Also you are > happier you feel better and you feel less angry. > Imagine the other drivers as an obsticle course designed to make your > drive to work memorable and interesting like it is an adventure rather > than a curse. It’s probably the most exciting part of your day driving > to work. You cannot change the other driver’s stupid behavior by > anything you do honking your horn shouting you just make yourself > unhappy. So figure it is an adventure and try to live with the crazy > things your fellow drivers do rather than think you can change them. To > change your life you can change what you do and how you do it or you can > change your perception of your life which is the most powerful thing you > can use to make your life more bearable. In grid lock you can listen to > audio books, think about the people you love think about books teachers, > whatever you don’t have to sit there taping your finger on the wheel you > have to keep your car stationary but your mind can be active and you can > put your body on auto to deal with other drivers and their antics.

i cannot survive traffic without the cd player in the car. most of the time, i can shrug off the antics of aggressive or inconsiderate drivers. but when i’m really pressed for time, > I would imagine they are trying to provoke you into hitting them to slow > you down even further it’s a contest of wills are you willing to let > them make you feel anything you don’t want to feel? Your emotions are > your own and you should let a perfect stranger make you feel one ounce > of anger, guilt or sadness. You cannot control anything anyone does so > why let them control you. You don’t care about these people at all > other than what they do effects you. So minimize their effect on you.

again, intellectually it doesn’t matter squat what total strangers think about you, but it’s the essence of social phobia to fret about this very thing. > Another thing is to refuse to get angry because there is nothing you can > do to them much. Other than to seize the wheel in your inside hand if > someone blocks you in your lane and slide your outside hand down the > wheel as if you might try to jump in their lane with them in it. It will > terrify them adopt a crazy grin like you just got out of the psychic > ward are on heavy medication and you might just pull out a gun and blow > them away for no reason at all.

your suggestions are "creative"–even if they might be destructive if actually acted upon–but ignoring all the low-lifes & ignoramuses on the road is best, because an individual that drives like a maniac might actually be a maniac, so one risks provoking a physical confrontation by reacting to such people. > Tail gators you turn on your highbeams if you are running your head > lights briefly so it looks like you are tapping your brakes when you > aren’t or they may swerve to miss you and hit the other aggressive > driver riding you back bumper stopping them both. Allowing you to change > lanes. Or you can give up the fight drop your speed 10 mph let all of > them pass you and hop in the other lane before a slower car

i like how you spelled tailgater, although it’s a disservice to alligators.

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Hops are used to brew beer. http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~bjaus/page14.htm Meryl On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:50:21 GMT, "Maxxie Moore" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: >Well, I don’t know who started this thread or why, but now I’m going to >chime in. First, someone said that most beer is made from potatoes. I love >the thought. It’s a hoot. But it ain’t right. It’s vodka that is made from >potatoes. Beer is made from barley and hops. Truthfully, I have no more >idea of what a hop is than I had of what a bullox was, but look at the label >on a can of beer. It always says hops. I assume that that is plural, that a >beer contains more than one hop, that it contains many hops. >Re: being pissed off while you’re driving. It’s called road rage. They >shoot people in California for it. Or rather, people in California who get >it shoot people who cause it. Occasionally, I want to shoot someone. I had >a case of movie-seat rage the other night. That’s right. Movie-seat rage. >Ever heard of it? I got a prime, center seat in a theater, and two minutes >before the movie started some woman dragged her husband in and sat him down >in front of me so that I had to look over her husband’s head for the rest of >the movie. From the moment he sat down, I wanted to kick the bitch in the >head. >That wouldn’t have been so bad, but I had just left a theater with stadium >seating and superb surround sound and had gone immediately to this >old-fashioned movie house with the seats all on a slightly sloping floor. >(It was Halloween, and I had no more intention of bouncing from my chair to >the door all evening to dole out candy to diminutive goblins than I had of >sitting in a pool of refrigerated liverwerst.) I came very, very close to >getting up and moving to the seat directly in front of that bitch, but I >didn’t. I don’t know why I didn’t, but I didn’t. And I didn’t respect >myself in the morning for not doing it. But it would have been better than >kicking her in the head, right? But then, it doesn’t matter becasue I >didn’t kick her in the head. I only thought about it, at which time I >realized I was off my f*king rocker. I just had a case of movie-seat rage, >so I sat impassively in my seat and didn’t move. >I love the anonymity of posting to a forum like this. Maxxie Moore is no >more my name–and apparently no more indicative of my gender–than Stevie >Nicks is. >So you get pissed off at drivers who cut you off? That’s normal. Don’t >sweat it, and don’t move to town. >If you’re past 30, it’s getting to be too problematic to move anyway. Your >possessions no longer fit into the trunk of a car. They might even have >gotten to be quite nice, and you don’t want the finish ruinied by scratches >and scrapes or the upholstery plucked by careless pricks. >"Katz Heitmann" wrote in message >news:2lhob.11837$X22.4487@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >> yitwail wrote: >> > Katz Heitmann wrote in message >… >> >>yitwail wrote: >> >>>John Jay wrote in message >… >> >>>>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >> >>>>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes >> >>>>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. >> >>>>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? >> >>>my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & >> >>>taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting >> >>>more sleep & exercise. >> >>I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone >> >>you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I >> >>guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the >> >>person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a >> >>ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you >> >>are laughing at or might hurt you. >> > good one. but can’t punch a bag & drive–what passes for driving >> > really–on a gridlocked freeway. i can only take so much of people >> > speeding up as soon as they see my lane change signal or getting in >> > front of me without signalling and making me hit the brakes until i >> > yell. i think the root problem isn’t expressing anger, it’s feeling >> > anger; but if you’re angry already, might as well vent it in a >> > harmless way. >> Have you thought of moving out of the city or closer to the places you >> have to go so you can walk or take the bus. Let someone else drive or >> walk. So you don’t have to drive on the crowded freeway all the time. >> Or you could throw an empty bottle at their back windshield when they do >> that. Or a wet bag of flower. I was thinking a paint ball gun fire a >> paint ball at their back windshield. Or a wad of chewing gum into their >> open window as they pass you. Or onto their window as they hurl past >> you. They might hit someone else and get into an accident even without >> that. Just realize they are stupid immature and will probably wrap >> their car around a tree eventually and drive carefully try not to play >> their game. They want to deliberately make you mad are you going to let >> them make you angry? Are you going to let them have control over your >> moods? You are a grown man so why do you let stupid people make you >> angry? One day someone is going to kill them or they will do themselves >> in all you have to do is stand by and don’t get mixed up in their death. >> You see their actions doom them they are foolish you know better. So >> stay away from them avoid them stay to the right lane drive a >> comfortable speed and let them be fools. Do not be fools with them. Do >> not allow their foolish behavior to affect you. Just listen to your >> music and think of it as private time and all the weird aggressive and >> boneheaded behavior as part of the landscape. You can navigate them >> without becoming angry or losing your composure since everytime you get >> tense you are less able to cope with the pattern. Every time you work >> within the pattern established whether you like what the other drivers >> do or not you are better able to cope with the changes. Also you are >> happier you feel better and you feel less angry. >> Imagine the other drivers as an obsticle course designed to make your >> drive to work memorable and interesting like it is an adventure rather >> than a curse. It’s probably the most exciting part of your day driving >> to work. You cannot change the other driver’s stupid behavior by >> anything you do honking your horn shouting you just make yourself >> unhappy. So figure it is an adventure and try to live with the crazy >> things your fellow drivers do rather than think you can change them. To >> change your life you can change what you do and how you do it or you can >> change your perception of your life which is the most powerful thing you >> can use to make your life more bearable. In grid lock you can listen to >> audio books, think about the people you love think about books teachers, >> whatever you don’t have to sit there taping your finger on the wheel you >> have to keep your car stationary but your mind can be active and you can >> put your body on auto to deal with other drivers and their antics. >> I would imagine they are trying to provoke you into hitting them to slow >> you down even further it’s a contest of wills are you willing to let >> them make you feel anything you don’t want to feel? Your emotions are >> your own and you should let a perfect stranger make you feel one ounce >> of anger, guilt or sadness. You cannot control anything anyone does so >> why let them control you. You don’t care about these people at all >> other than what they do effects you. So minimize their effect on you. >> Another thing is to refuse to get angry because there is nothing you can >> do to them much. Other than to seize the wheel in your inside hand if >> someone blocks you in your lane and slide your outside hand down the >> wheel as if you might try to jump in their lane with them in it. It will >> terrify them adopt a crazy grin like you just got out of the psychic >> ward are on heavy medication and you might just pull out a gun and blow >> them away for no reason at all. >> Tail gators you turn on your highbeams if you are running your head >> lights briefly so it looks like you are tapping your brakes when you >> aren’t or they may swerve to miss you and hit the other aggressive >> driver riding you back bumper stopping them both. Allowing you to change >> lanes. Or you can give up the fight drop your speed 10 mph let all of >> them pass you and hop in the other lane before a slower car

Response:

>From the moment he sat down, I wanted to kick the bitch in the >head.

I think of more creative ways of humiliation. Perhaps shaving her head would be more satisfying? It’s slower and drags out the degradation longer…

Response:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:50:21 GMT, "Maxxie Moore" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: >Well, I don’t know who started this thread or why, but now I’m going to >chime in. First, someone said that most beer is made from potatoes. I love >the thought. It’s a hoot. But it ain’t right. It’s vodka that is made from >potatoes. Beer is made from barley and hops. Truthfully, I have no more >idea of what a hop is than I had of what a bullox was, but look at the label >on a can of beer. It always says hops. I assume that that is plural, that a >beer contains more than one hop, that it contains many hops. >Re: being pissed off while you’re driving. It’s called road rage. They >shoot people in California for it. Or rather, people in California who get >it shoot people who cause it. Occasionally, I want to shoot someone. I had >a case of movie-seat rage the other night. That’s right. Movie-seat rage. >Ever heard of it? I got a prime, center seat in a theater, and two minutes >before the movie started some woman dragged her husband in and sat him down >in front of me so that I had to look over her husband’s head for the rest of >the movie. From the moment he sat down, I wanted to kick the bitch in the >head. >That wouldn’t have been so bad, but I had just left a theater with stadium >seating and superb surround sound and had gone immediately to this >old-fashioned movie house with the seats all on a slightly sloping floor. >(It was Halloween, and I had no more intention of bouncing from my chair to >the door all evening to dole out candy to diminutive goblins than I had of >sitting in a pool of refrigerated liverwerst.) I came very, very close to >getting up and moving to the seat directly in front of that bitch, but I >didn’t. I don’t know why I didn’t, but I didn’t. And I didn’t respect >myself in the morning for not doing it. But it would have been better than >kicking her in the head, right? But then, it doesn’t matter becasue I >didn’t kick her in the head. I only thought about it, at which time I >realized I was off my f*king rocker. I just had a case of movie-seat rage, >so I sat impassively in my seat and didn’t move. >I love the anonymity of posting to a forum like this. Maxxie Moore is no >more my name–and apparently no more indicative of my gender–than Stevie >Nicks is. >So you get pissed off at drivers who cut you off? That’s normal. Don’t >sweat it, and don’t move to town. >If you’re past 30, it’s getting to be too problematic to move anyway. Your >possessions no longer fit into the trunk of a car. They might even have >gotten to be quite nice, and you don’t want the finish ruinied by scratches >and scrapes or the upholstery plucked by careless pricks. >"Katz Heitmann" wrote in message >news:2lhob.11837$X22.4487@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >> yitwail wrote: >> > Katz Heitmann wrote in message >… >> >>yitwail wrote: >> >>>John Jay wrote in message >… >> >>>>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >> >>>>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes >> >>>>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. >> >>>>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? >> >>>my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & >> >>>taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting >> >>>more sleep & exercise. >> >>I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone >> >>you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I >> >>guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the >> >>person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a >> >>ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you >> >>are laughing at or might hurt you. >> > good one. but can’t punch a bag & drive–what passes for driving >> > really–on a gridlocked freeway. i can only take so much of people >> > speeding up as soon as they see my lane change signal or getting in >> > front of me without signalling and making me hit the brakes until i >> > yell. i think the root problem isn’t expressing anger, it’s feeling >> > anger; but if you’re angry already, might as well vent it in a >> > harmless way. >> Have you thought of moving out of the city or closer to the places you >> have to go so you can walk or take the bus. Let someone else drive or >> walk. So you don’t have to drive on the crowded freeway all the time. >> Or you could throw an empty bottle at their back windshield when they do >> that. Or a wet bag of flower. I was thinking a paint ball gun fire a >> paint ball at their back windshield. Or a wad of chewing gum into their >> open window as they pass you. Or onto their window as they hurl past >> you. They might hit someone else and get into an accident even without >> that. Just realize they are stupid immature and will probably wrap >> their car around a tree eventually and drive carefully try not to play >> their game. They want to deliberately make you mad are you going to let >> them make you angry? Are you going to let them have control over your >> moods? You are a grown man so why do you let stupid people make you >> angry? One day someone is going to kill them or they will do themselves >> in all you have to do is stand by and don’t get mixed up in their death. >> You see their actions doom them they are foolish you know better. So >> stay away from them avoid them stay to the right lane drive a >> comfortable speed and let them be fools. Do not be fools with them. Do >> not allow their foolish behavior to affect you. Just listen to your >> music and think of it as private time and all the weird aggressive and >> boneheaded behavior as part of the landscape. You can navigate them >> without becoming angry or losing your composure since everytime you get >> tense you are less able to cope with the pattern. Every time you work >> within the pattern established whether you like what the other drivers >> do or not you are better able to cope with the changes. Also you are >> happier you feel better and you feel less angry. >> Imagine the other drivers as an obsticle course designed to make your >> drive to work memorable and interesting like it is an adventure rather >> than a curse. It’s probably the most exciting part of your day driving >> to work. You cannot change the other driver’s stupid behavior by >> anything you do honking your horn shouting you just make yourself >> unhappy. So figure it is an adventure and try to live with the crazy >> things your fellow drivers do rather than think you can change them. To >> change your life you can change what you do and how you do it or you can >> change your perception of your life which is the most powerful thing you >> can use to make your life more bearable. In grid lock you can listen to >> audio books, think about the people you love think about books teachers, >> whatever you don’t have to sit there taping your finger on the wheel you >> have to keep your car stationary but your mind can be active and you can >> put your body on auto to deal with other drivers and their antics. >> I would imagine they are trying to provoke you into hitting them to slow >> you down even further it’s a contest of wills are you willing to let >> them make you feel anything you don’t want to feel? Your emotions are >> your own and you should let a perfect stranger make you feel one ounce >> of anger, guilt or sadness. You cannot control anything anyone does so >> why let them control you. You don’t care about these people at all >> other than what they do effects you. So minimize their effect on you. >> Another thing is to refuse to get angry because there is nothing you can >> do to them much. Other than to seize the wheel in your inside hand if >> someone blocks you in your lane and slide your outside hand down the >> wheel as if you might try to jump in their lane with them in it. It will >> terrify them adopt a crazy grin like you just got out of the psychic >> ward are on heavy medication and you might just pull out a gun and blow >> them away for no reason at all. >> Tail gators you turn on your highbeams if you are running your head >> lights briefly so it looks like you are tapping your brakes when you >> aren’t or they may swerve to miss you and hit the other aggressive >> driver riding you back bumper stopping them both. Allowing you to change >> lanes. Or you can give up the fight drop your speed 10 mph let all of >> them pass you and hop in the other lane before a slower car

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whew! thanks for a lengthy reply. i’m headed to the airport right now and won’t be back in town for 4 days, so i’ll respond when i get back. john k

Response:

Well, I don’t know who started this thread or why, but now I’m going to chime in. First, someone said that most beer is made from potatoes. I love the thought. It’s a hoot. But it ain’t right. It’s vodka that is made from potatoes. Beer is made from barley and hops. Truthfully, I have no more idea of what a hop is than I had of what a bullox was, but look at the label on a can of beer. It always says hops. I assume that that is plural, that a beer contains more than one hop, that it contains many hops. Re: being pissed off while you’re driving. It’s called road rage. They shoot people in California for it. Or rather, people in California who get it shoot people who cause it. Occasionally, I want to shoot someone. I had a case of movie-seat rage the other night. That’s right. Movie-seat rage. Ever heard of it? I got a prime, center seat in a theater, and two minutes before the movie started some woman dragged her husband in and sat him down in front of me so that I had to look over her husband’s head for the rest of the movie. From the moment he sat down, I wanted to kick the bitch in the head. That wouldn’t have been so bad, but I had just left a theater with stadium seating and superb surround sound and had gone immediately to this old-fashioned movie house with the seats all on a slightly sloping floor. (It was Halloween, and I had no more intention of bouncing from my chair to the door all evening to dole out candy to diminutive goblins than I had of sitting in a pool of refrigerated liverwerst.) I came very, very close to getting up and moving to the seat directly in front of that bitch, but I didn’t. I don’t know why I didn’t, but I didn’t. And I didn’t respect myself in the morning for not doing it. But it would have been better than kicking her in the head, right? But then, it doesn’t matter becasue I didn’t kick her in the head. I only thought about it, at which time I realized I was off my f*king rocker. I just had a case of movie-seat rage, so I sat impassively in my seat and didn’t move. I love the anonymity of posting to a forum like this. Maxxie Moore is no more my name–and apparently no more indicative of my gender–than Stevie Nicks is. So you get pissed off at drivers who cut you off? That’s normal. Don’t sweat it, and don’t move to town. If you’re past 30, it’s getting to be too problematic to move anyway. Your possessions no longer fit into the trunk of a car. They might even have gotten to be quite nice, and you don’t want the finish ruinied by scratches and scrapes or the upholstery plucked by careless pricks. "Katz Heitmann" wrote in message

news:2lhob.11837$X22.4487@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… > yitwail wrote: > > Katz Heitmann wrote in message

… > >>yitwail wrote: > >>>John Jay wrote in message

… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>>>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: > >>>>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes > >>>>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. > >>>>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? > >>>my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & > >>>taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting > >>>more sleep & exercise. > >>I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone > >>you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I > >>guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the > >>person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a > >>ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you > >>are laughing at or might hurt you. > > good one. but can’t punch a bag & drive–what passes for driving > > really–on a gridlocked freeway. i can only take so much of people > > speeding up as soon as they see my lane change signal or getting in > > front of me without signalling and making me hit the brakes until i > > yell. i think the root problem isn’t expressing anger, it’s feeling > > anger; but if you’re angry already, might as well vent it in a > > harmless way. > Have you thought of moving out of the city or closer to the places you > have to go so you can walk or take the bus. Let someone else drive or > walk. So you don’t have to drive on the crowded freeway all the time. > Or you could throw an empty bottle at their back windshield when they do > that. Or a wet bag of flower. I was thinking a paint ball gun fire a > paint ball at their back windshield. Or a wad of chewing gum into their > open window as they pass you. Or onto their window as they hurl past > you. They might hit someone else and get into an accident even without > that. Just realize they are stupid immature and will probably wrap > their car around a tree eventually and drive carefully try not to play > their game. They want to deliberately make you mad are you going to let > them make you angry? Are you going to let them have control over your > moods? You are a grown man so why do you let stupid people make you > angry? One day someone is going to kill them or they will do themselves > in all you have to do is stand by and don’t get mixed up in their death. > You see their actions doom them they are foolish you know better. So > stay away from them avoid them stay to the right lane drive a > comfortable speed and let them be fools. Do not be fools with them. Do > not allow their foolish behavior to affect you. Just listen to your > music and think of it as private time and all the weird aggressive and > boneheaded behavior as part of the landscape. You can navigate them > without becoming angry or losing your composure since everytime you get > tense you are less able to cope with the pattern. Every time you work > within the pattern established whether you like what the other drivers > do or not you are better able to cope with the changes. Also you are > happier you feel better and you feel less angry. > Imagine the other drivers as an obsticle course designed to make your > drive to work memorable and interesting like it is an adventure rather > than a curse. It’s probably the most exciting part of your day driving > to work. You cannot change the other driver’s stupid behavior by > anything you do honking your horn shouting you just make yourself > unhappy. So figure it is an adventure and try to live with the crazy > things your fellow drivers do rather than think you can change them. To > change your life you can change what you do and how you do it or you can > change your perception of your life which is the most powerful thing you > can use to make your life more bearable. In grid lock you can listen to > audio books, think about the people you love think about books teachers, > whatever you don’t have to sit there taping your finger on the wheel you > have to keep your car stationary but your mind can be active and you can > put your body on auto to deal with other drivers and their antics. > I would imagine they are trying to provoke you into hitting them to slow > you down even further it’s a contest of wills are you willing to let > them make you feel anything you don’t want to feel? Your emotions are > your own and you should let a perfect stranger make you feel one ounce > of anger, guilt or sadness. You cannot control anything anyone does so > why let them control you. You don’t care about these people at all > other than what they do effects you. So minimize their effect on you. > Another thing is to refuse to get angry because there is nothing you can > do to them much. Other than to seize the wheel in your inside hand if > someone blocks you in your lane and slide your outside hand down the > wheel as if you might try to jump in their lane with them in it. It will > terrify them adopt a crazy grin like you just got out of the psychic > ward are on heavy medication and you might just pull out a gun and blow > them away for no reason at all. > Tail gators you turn on your highbeams if you are running your head > lights briefly so it looks like you are tapping your brakes when you > aren’t or they may swerve to miss you and hit the other aggressive > driver riding you back bumper stopping them both. Allowing you to change > lanes. Or you can give up the fight drop your speed 10 mph let all of > them pass you and hop in the other lane before a slower car

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -yitwail wrote: > Katz Heitmann wrote in message … >>yitwail wrote: >>>John Jay wrote in message … >>>>On 4 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0700, catim…@yahoo.com (yitwail) wrote: >>>>I do know that alcoholic beer can be considered food (most beer comes >>>>from potatos). I don’t know how they make non alcoholic beer. >>>>Nutritionally speaking though, has it helped? >>>my health is decent, so it hasn’t hurt, but it’s like drinking wine & >>>taking aspirin to prevent heart disease: i’d be better off getting >>>more sleep & exercise. >>I’d say get a punching bag you hit it imagine you are hitting someone >>you are mad at. They say that doesn’t work well but it works for me. I >>guess because I have post traumatic. Try it. Or try to imagine the >>person you are angry with naked purple with pink spots or that them in a >>ridiculous position don’t laugh or they might demand to know what you >>are laughing at or might hurt you. > good one. but can’t punch a bag & drive–what passes for driving > really–on a gridlocked freeway. i can only take so much of people > speeding up as soon as they see my lane change signal or getting in > front of me without signalling and making me hit the brakes until i > yell. i think the root problem isn’t expressing anger, it’s feeling > anger; but if you’re angry already, might as well vent it in a > harmless way.

Have you thought of moving out of the city or closer to the places you have to go so you can walk or take the bus. Let someone else drive or walk. So you don’t have to drive on the crowded freeway all the time. Or you could throw an empty bottle at their back windshield when they do that. Or a wet bag of flower. I was thinking a paint ball gun fire a paint ball at their back windshield. Or a wad of chewing gum into their open window as they pass you. Or onto their window as they hurl past you. They might hit someone else and get into an accident even without that. Just realize they are stupid immature and will probably wrap their car around a tree eventually and drive carefully try not to play their game. They want to deliberately make you mad are you going to let them make you angry? Are you going to let them have control over your moods? You are a grown man so why do you let stupid people make you angry? One day someone is going to kill them or they will do themselves in all you have to do is stand by and don’t get mixed up in their death. You see their actions doom them they are foolish you know better. So stay away from them avoid them stay to the right lane drive a comfortable speed and let them be fools. Do not be fools with them. Do not allow their foolish behavior to affect you. Just listen to your music and think of it as private time and all the weird aggressive and boneheaded behavior as part of the landscape. You can navigate them without becoming angry or losing your composure since everytime you get tense you are less able to cope with the pattern. Every time you work within the pattern established whether you like what the other drivers do or not you are better able to cope with the changes. Also you are happier you feel better and you feel less angry. Imagine the other drivers as an obsticle course designed to make your drive to work memorable and interesting like it is an adventure rather than a curse. It’s probably the most exciting part of your day driving to work. You cannot change the other driver’s stupid behavior by anything you do honking your horn shouting you just make yourself unhappy. So figure it is an adventure and try to live with the crazy things your fellow drivers do rather than think you can change them. To change your life you can change what you do and how you do it or you can change your perception of your life which is the most powerful thing you can use to make your life more bearable. In grid lock you can listen to audio books, think about the people you love think about books teachers, whatever you don’t have to sit there taping your finger on the wheel you have to keep your car stationary but your mind can be active and you can put your body on auto to deal with other drivers and their antics. I would imagine they are trying to provoke you into hitting them to slow you down even further it’s a contest of wills are you willing to let them make you feel anything you don’t want to feel? Your emotions are your own and you should let a perfect stranger make you feel one ounce of anger, guilt or sadness. You cannot control anything anyone does so why let them control you. You don’t care about these people at all other than what they do effects you. So minimize their effect on you. Another thing is to refuse to get angry because there is nothing you can do to them much. Other than to seize the wheel in your inside hand if someone blocks you in your lane and slide your outside hand down the wheel as if you might try to jump in their lane with them in it. It will terrify them adopt a crazy grin like you just got out of the psychic ward are on heavy medication and you might just pull out a gun and blow them away for no reason at all. Tail gators you turn on your highbeams if you are running your head lights briefly so it looks like you are tapping your brakes when you aren’t or they may swerve to miss you and hit the other aggressive driver riding you back bumper stopping them both. Allowing you to change lanes. Or you can give up the fight drop your speed 10 mph let all of them pass you and hop in the other lane before a slower car