Question:
It made a lot of sense to me. He said that the people who are advocating the war are hypocrites, because they’d never let their own sons or daughters be sent into harm’s way.
You obviously haven’t been paying attention. There are plenty of people out there who support the position of the president and the current action who have sons and daughters who are currently directly in harm’s way. I have more respect for Jesse Ventura than I used to, but not so much as to take all of his statements as gospel truth. — Larry Fransson Seattle, WA
Response:
well, they sure meant the Uranium enriched weapons.
Enriched Uranium is used in fission weapons. Depleted Uranium is used in projectile weapons. Big difference. — Larry Fransson Seattle, WA
Response:
In fact, Bin Laden has been quoted as calling Hussein a "secular infidel." Not exactly the language of an ally, no?
Money is money. Its value doesn’t vary with your opinion of its source. — Larry Fransson Seattle, WA
Response:
No, this isn’t aviation related. Not even close. However, I’m a pilot and I was asked by a pilot friend (Hi Jay) to post it here. If you don’t like it you can kiss my Southern American ass. Last week, our small town newspaper here publicized a "peace rally" organized by a high school student here. They were planning a candlelight vigil in protest of the forthcoming war at a small park in the middle of downtown. A couple of weeks prior to this, after watching a news story about Hollywood-types making stupid comments about my president and my country, I told my wife and a couple of close friends that, "By God, if any idiots hold a stupid peace rally here in my little town, I’m gonna go counter protest!" My friends and wife said they’d join me and to let them know. So, I see the article about the peace rally when I got home from work and remembered my promise to myself. I was really tired from a long week but I called my friends to tell them about it. My friends had other commitments. I really didn’t want to go by myself so I said to myself, "Aww screw it." I cracked open a beer and watched Fox News (the ONLY news channel worth watching during this war) who reminded me that nearly 300,000 young Americans were putting their lives on the line protecting my family. The very least I could do was oppose the peaceniks and support my president with more than just words between friends. So, at about 6:30pm (the protest started at 7:00pm) off to the local pharmacy I went to buy poster board. I hurriedly made a sign that read, "HONK if you SUPPORT our TROOPS and our PRESIDENT!" I taped a piece of quarter-round molding on the poster board for a pole, threw it in the back of the truck and headed to the Big Peace Rally. I stood in front of our new library directly across the street from the park and about fifty feet from the protesters. There were about twenty protesters–damn near a riot for my little town. The local National Guard has been called out for less. They stood there for a little while chatting and occasionally pointing at me and aiming a snooty glare in my direction. I just smiled back. After a few minutes, they all lit a little candle and silently formed a circle. It was a weird site in this little town seeing those people, young and old, just standing there silently in a circle with their faces aglow. They reminded me of an episode of "South Park" for some reason. So I stood in the pool of light from a streetlamp and rather unenthusiastically waved my poster at the passing cars and at the protesters. I felt like a complete idiot standing there all by myself and almost crawled back into my truck a number of times during the first few minutes. See, I’m vaguely well-known in the area. I own a business downtown. People know me. I have kids and a wife I could embarrass. My teenager would kick my ass if he rode by and saw me. "I really shouldn’t be here," I thought. Then I thought again about the 300,000 young soldiers in and around Iraq at that very moment. If I had a kid over there I sure as hell would hope more people would do what I was doing. So I gritted my teeth and stood my ground for the time being. I even partially hid my face behind the sign when a couple of cars passed by and didn’t honk. After about five minutes, I still received no honks. However, only about five or six cars had driven by and most were occupied by little old ladies leaving the church down the street–they don’t see too well at night, you know. They probably couldn’t see me, much less the sign. That’s what I told myself. Anyway, there I stood. Just me against the puny pack of peace people. I was feeling more stupid by the minute. Jesus, what if somebody I know sees me here? The biggest worry, by far, was what if nobody honked and the peace people "won" this little battle of protests? "Screw this," I whispered and started for my truck. At about that time, a large pickup truck full of young rednecks rode by, slowed down and looked at my sign instead of the peace protesters. After a second or two, I guess they got it. The driver laid on the horn and all the occupants let out a chorus of Rebel Yells. Success! I had disrupted the silent candlelight vigil! I waved and smiled at the truck people, felt a little better, held my sign a little higher and waved it with a little more enthusiasm. The next two or three cars honked as well and gave me more of a boost so I decided to stay for the duration. In all, I received a honk from about one out of every three cars. The cars that didn’t honk were busy rubbernecking the odd site of the lit-up peaceniks or I think they would’ve honked, too. I’d like to think that, anyway. During the whole twenty-minute ordeal (it felt much longer) I got probably fifty honks to counter the twenty peace makers. Not a bad ratio, I thought. I disrupted their quiet little candlelight vigil and maybe even made them think about their convictions. Maybe. To avoid a confrontation and possible headline with me in it (those peace people can be violent, you know) as soon as they blew out their candles and started to disassemble, I climbed back in my truck and drove home to my family. I think I’ll save the poster for the next one. I just wish I wasn’t alone. God bless America. — Jim Fisher
Response:
No, this isn’t aviation related. Not even close. However, I’m a pilot and I was asked by a pilot friend (Hi Jay) to post it here. If you don’t like it you can kiss my Southern American ass.
Sorry, not gonna happen, no matter how cute you might be. "HONK if you SUPPORT our TROOPS and our PRESIDENT!"
I support our troops, ’cause they do what they’re told – that’s what they’re paid for, and if they do otherwise they’ll be court-marshalled and possibly executed. I give them full credit for signing up to Follow Orders. But, from where I stand, our so-called President is an idiot. The troops are, therefore, potentially doomed. Only our Superior Technology, AKA Precision Guided Weapons and "Shock And Awe" Strategy will save their sorry asses. (Which is, in my opinion, why W has the huckleberries to try this thing in the first place.) At about that time, a large pickup truck full of young rednecks rode by, slowed down and looked at my sign instead of the peace protesters. After a second or two, I guess they got it. The driver laid on the horn and all the occupants let out a chorus of Rebel Yells.
Go Rebs! Yup, that warms me cockles as to their cause. Fire them guns into the air! Success! I had disrupted the silent candlelight vigil! I waved and smiled at the truck people, felt a little better, held my sign a little higher and waved it with a little more enthusiasm.
Oooh, I feel better already. The rednecks have validated your stance. I bet they had their 30-ought-six rifles locked and loaded, just in case any of them gawl-dang liberals had the liver-lillied humpus to show up. They’ll show them! The next two or three cars honked as well and gave me more of a boost so I decided to stay for the duration.
It further warms me bits! Not. Otherwise, them cockle’s’d be assuming a fission-inspired glow of their own. (aaah! Shrinkage!) In all, I received a honk from about one out of every three cars. The cars that didn’t honk were busy rubbernecking the odd site of the lit-up peaceniks or I think they would’ve honked, too. I’d like to think that, anyway. During the whole twenty-minute ordeal (it felt much longer) I got probably fifty honks to counter the twenty peace makers. Not a bad ratio, I thought.
This is the essence of why I’m responding to your post. Your would-be statistical analysis does not mirror the overall majority, based on what I’ve seen regarding the US populace’s feelings on the matter. W is proceeding with his plan to Oust The Guy That Might Have Weapons Of Mass Destruction no matter what the majority of his country thinks – apparently he is a smarter guy than we are – yup, that’s what my money’s on. (I sure hope so – PLEASE W. prove me wrong in the coming months. I really hope you, Ol’ Beady Eyes, will be proven right, but I have no faith that you will.) If not, the endgame is that we (America) will look like idiots to the rest of the world – for many years to come. To avoid a confrontation and possible headline with me in it (those peace people can be violent, you know) as soon as they blew out their candles and started to disassemble, I climbed back in my truck and drove home to my family. I think I’ll save the poster for the next one. I just wish I wasn’t alone.
You’re not, it seems. Much to my dismay. God bless America.
If God Blessed America, why did He let 9-11 happen? Was it to Test Us? Gee, thanks. I’d phrase it differently – :God Help Us." I’m donning the Nomex undies, as I’m sure this will incite the flames. But, I have to respond to this blatantly non-aviation related post in kind… Your attitude scares me almost more than W’s. I would much prefer getting back to the pros and cons of leaning lean/rich of peak – we’d probably laugh a lot more and take each other less seriously. Dave Blevins
Response:
Jim, Nice post. It is everybody’s right to protest the war, even after it has already started (even though it is bad taste, IMO). I just find it a little sad that those who are so adamantly opposed to the war have no real intelligent basis for their argument. I’ve seen many people on TV express their opinions against the war, but I’ve only seen a very few individuals make an even half way intelligent argument (even though I still disagree with them – at least a couple of people have actually thought out reasons why they are against the war, and can intelligently express their thoughts). Unfortunately, the media spends an exorbitant amount of time televising anti-war protests and sentiment – and in my opinion, the net result is to make the American citizenry appear like a bunch of eneducated monkeys to the world at large. Anyway, your story made my day. Thanks! Phil Rynn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, this isn’t aviation related. Not even close. However, I’m a pilot and I was asked by a pilot friend (Hi Jay) to post it here. If you don’t like it you can kiss my Southern American ass. Last week, our small town newspaper here publicized a "peace rally" organized by a high school student here. They were planning a candlelight vigil in protest of the forthcoming war at a small park in the middle of downtown. A couple of weeks prior to this, after watching a news story about Hollywood-types making stupid comments about my president and my country, I told my wife and a couple of close friends that, "By God, if any idiots hold a stupid peace rally here in my little town, I’m gonna go counter protest!" My friends and wife said they’d join me and to let them know. So, I see the article about the peace rally when I got home from work and remembered my promise to myself. I was really tired from a long week but I called my friends to tell them about it. My friends had other commitments. I really didn’t want to go by myself so I said to myself, "Aww screw it." I cracked open a beer and watched Fox News (the ONLY news channel worth watching during this war) who reminded me that nearly 300,000 young Americans were putting their lives on the line protecting my family. The very least I could do was oppose the peaceniks and support my president with more than just words between friends. So, at about 6:30pm (the protest started at 7:00pm) off to the local pharmacy I went to buy poster board. I hurriedly made a sign that read, "HONK if you SUPPORT our TROOPS and our PRESIDENT!" I taped a piece of quarter-round molding on the poster board for a pole, threw it in the back of the truck and headed to the Big Peace Rally. I stood in front of our new library directly across the street from the park and about fifty feet from the protesters. There were about twenty protesters–damn near a riot for my little town. The local National Guard has been called out for less. They stood there for a little while chatting and occasionally pointing at me and aiming a snooty glare in my direction. I just smiled back. After a few minutes, they all lit a little candle and silently formed a circle. It was a weird site in this little town seeing those people, young and old, just standing there silently in a circle with their faces aglow. They reminded me of an episode of "South Park" for some reason. So I stood in the pool of light from a streetlamp and rather unenthusiastically waved my poster at the passing cars and at the protesters. I felt like a complete idiot standing there all by myself and almost crawled back into my truck a number of times during the first few minutes. See, I’m vaguely well-known in the area. I own a business downtown. People know me. I have kids and a wife I could embarrass. My teenager would kick my ass if he rode by and saw me. "I really shouldn’t be here," I thought. Then I thought again about the 300,000 young soldiers in and around Iraq at that very moment. If I had a kid over there I sure as hell would hope more people would do what I was doing. So I gritted my teeth and stood my ground for the time being. I even partially hid my face behind the sign when a couple of cars passed by and didn’t honk. After about five minutes, I still received no honks. However, only about five or six cars had driven by and most were occupied by little old ladies leaving the church down the street–they don’t see too well at night, you know. They probably couldn’t see me, much less the sign. That’s what I told myself. Anyway, there I stood. Just me against the puny pack of peace people. I was feeling more stupid by the minute. Jesus, what if somebody I know sees me here? The biggest worry, by far, was what if nobody honked and the peace people "won" this little battle of protests? "Screw this," I whispered and started for my truck. At about that time, a large pickup truck full of young rednecks rode by, slowed down and looked at my sign instead of the peace protesters. After a second or two, I guess they got it. The driver laid on the horn and all the occupants let out a chorus of Rebel Yells. Success! I had disrupted the silent candlelight vigil! I waved and smiled at the truck people, felt a little better, held my sign a little higher and waved it with a little more enthusiasm. The next two or three cars honked as well and gave me more of a boost so I decided to stay for the duration. In all, I received a honk from about one out of every three cars. The cars that didn’t honk were busy rubbernecking the odd site of the lit-up peaceniks or I think they would’ve honked, too. I’d like to think that, anyway. During the whole twenty-minute ordeal (it felt much longer) I got probably fifty honks to counter the twenty peace makers. Not a bad ratio, I thought. I disrupted their quiet little candlelight vigil and maybe even made them think about their convictions. Maybe. To avoid a confrontation and possible headline with me in it (those peace people can be violent, you know) as soon as they blew out their candles and started to disassemble, I climbed back in my truck and drove home to my family. I think I’ll save the poster for the next one. I just wish I wasn’t alone. God bless America. — Jim Fisher
Response:
But, from where I stand, our so-called President is an idiot.
He’s not "so-called". He *is* the President of the United States, whether you voted for him or not, and whether you agree with him or no. This is the essence of why I’m responding to your post. Your would-be statistical analysis does not mirror the overall majority, based on what I’ve seen regarding the US populace’s feelings on the matter. W is proceeding with his plan to Oust The Guy That Might Have Weapons Of Mass Destruction no matter what the majority of his country thinks – apparently he is a smarter guy than we are – yup, that’s what my money’s on.
I’m not sure where anyone gets the idea that a vocal minority makes a majority. They keep doing it, though. A few people get out and shout about no war for oil and things like that (please get a clue – we get so little of our oil from Iraq, and our oil supply from that area hasn’t been threatened in any way since 1991), get themselves in the news, and suddenly they think they’re a majority. When are people going to wake up and figure out that we’re doing this for the children? — Larry Fransson Seattle, WA
Response:
watching during this war) who reminded me that nearly 300,000 young Americans were putting their lives on the line protecting my family. The very least I could do was oppose the peaceniks and support my president with more than just words between friends.
Jimbo, If I were in Alabama or wherever the hell you are, I would have stopped and joined you. I guess some of us have forgotten about 9-11 and other incidents where terrorists, fueled by money from countries like Iraq and Iran who are awash with oil money, come to America or to American ships or embassies and bomb the hell out of us. I do want to point out, however, that not all of the 300,000 American soldiers over there are young. Many are oldies but goodies. I saw a TV article on a guy in the Army they call "Grandfather." This guy, a black man, has been around since the Vietnam War. He’s been in several campaigns, including Desert Storm. When they interviewed him, he was in Kuwait awaiting orders to go in and blast the hell out of them. The guys around him hold him in special reverence because he has so much experience, and he’s like a grandfather to them. They are a cohesive group that will kick some major butt for us. With guys like that, it’s just a matter of time before Sodom’s butt is either torn to pieces or in Guantanamo enjoying a fine Cuban seegar in a 14′x14′ concrete pad enclosed by cyclone fencing. Simon Ramirez
Response:
If I were in Alabama or wherever the hell you are, I would have stopped and joined you. I guess some of us have forgotten about 9-11 and other incidents where terrorists, fueled by money from countries like Iraq and Iran who are awash with oil money, come to America or to American ships or embassies and bomb the hell out of us.
Linking Saddam Husein to al Queda is bizarre. Hussein and bin Laden were mutual *enemies*. The Sept. 11 attack was fueled primarily by funds and terrorists from Saudi Arabia (whose Taliban-like leadership we help keep in power) and Kuwait (whose regime we also support). So, in the name of Sept. 11, we support the supporters of the terrorists, while attacking the enemies of the terrorists. Even George Orwell would be impressed by that rationale.
Response:
This is the essence of why I’m responding to your post. Your would-be statistical analysis does not mirror the overall majority, based on what I’ve seen regarding the US populace’s feelings on the matter. W is proceeding with his plan to Oust The Guy That Might Have Weapons Of Mass Destruction no matter what the majority of his country thinks –
Last ABC poll showed 76% of Americans support the war in Iraq. Nice try Dave. Keep digging. Iraqi sympathizers must now come to terms with the fact that the majority of Americans: …Really *like* GW… …Really *did* vote for him… …Really *like* the fact that what our President says he actually *means* (After 8 years of Clinton’s dissembling and lies, it’s incredibly refreshing to not have to interpret every word.) …Really appreciate having a leader that will no longer bullshit around with a murderous two-bit dictator of a cobbled together (by the Brits, no less!) "country" that just happens to be sitting on top of the life-blood of the world’s economy. Thank you Jim, for having the guts to stand up and speak for the silent majority. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
Response:
So, in the name of Sept. 11, we support the supporters of the terrorists, while attacking the enemies of the terrorists. Even George Orwell would be impressed by that rationale.
It’s only illogical if you see it as an isolated event. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
Response:
Not only does it appear that Americans support George Bush’s handling the war by a majority of 76%, but the Iraqis support it by an overwhelming majority as well. Of course, it is extremely funny to see the peace movement forced to defend a Fascist tyrant like Saddam Hussein, going so far as to say that this guy is more credible than the democratically elected George Bush.
Response:
Of course, it is extremely funny to see the peace movement forced to defend a Fascist tyrant like Saddam Hussein, going so far as to say that this guy is more credible than the democratically elected George Bush.
Well, let’s return to reality for a minute. The peace movement–unlike Reagan, Bush Sr., and Rumsfeld–has never defended Saddam Hussein. Rumsfeld and other currently high-ranking administration officials not only praised Hussein’s regime, but provided it with substantial military and financial support at a time when Hussein was known to be committing some of his worst atrocities. (Remember Bush Jr.’s declaration that those who provide material support to terrorists are as bad as the terrorists themselves? He’s right about that.)
Response:
| If I were in Alabama or wherever the hell you are, I would have stopped | and | joined you. I guess some of us have forgotten about 9-11 and other | incidents where terrorists, fueled by money from countries like Iraq and | Iran who are awash with oil money, come to America or to American ships or | embassies and bomb the hell out of us. | | Linking Saddam Husein to al Queda is bizarre. Hussein and bin Laden were | mutual *enemies*. This is absolute nonsense. There is considerable evidence that many top al Qaeda officials are Iraqi intelligence agents, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (who planned the 9/11 attacks) and his supposed ‘nephew,’ Abdul Basit Karim (aka Ramzi Yousef), and his supposed ‘close childhood friend,’ Abdul Hakam Murad, as well as two ‘brothers.’ These terrorists’ activities go back to before the formation of al Qaeda. No one really knows what happened to the real Mohammed, Karim, or Murad, all of whom studied in the United States and who are well known by people living here, but the individuals using those names who are currently in custody are not those people. The real Mohammed, Karim, and Murad all disappeared during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and their identity records were tampered with (identity photos and fingerprint cards replaced, physical descriptions and personal histories altered, etc.). Karim, for example, was 5′ 8", but the Yousef-Karim is six feet. Yousef in particular has been identified as having been a member of MKO, a terrorist group run by Iraq for the purpose of carrying out attacks on Iran. Yousef possessed both Iraqi and Kuwaiti passports with various identities. Whoever he is, he is obviously not Karim, but an Iraqi intelligence agent who adopted Karim’s identity during the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait. The same is probably true of the others. Osama bin Laden himself said that the 9/11 attacks were in retaliation for UN enforcement of the no-fly zone in Iraq and for the continued presence of troops in Saudi Arabia for the purpose of monitoring Iraq. Once U.S. forces take Baghdad, I think that Iraq’s intelligence files will provide some very interesting reading that may be very embarrassing to the peace movement. OTOH, perhaps nothing will embarrass a peace movement willing to defend a Fascist thug like Hussein or his terrorist henchmen.
Response:
| Of course, it is extremely funny to see the peace movement forced to | defend | a Fascist tyrant like Saddam Hussein, going so far as to say that this guy | is more credible than the democratically elected George Bush. | | Well, let’s return to reality for a minute. The peace movement–unlike | Reagan, Bush Sr., and Rumsfeld–has never defended Saddam Hussein. Rumsfeld | and other currently high-ranking administration officials not only praised | Hussein’s regime, but provided it with substantial military and financial | support at a time when Hussein was known to be committing some of his worst | atrocities. I would like to see some evidence of that. Saddam Hussein appears to be armed entirely with Russian and Eastern European equipment, not American. Not that I am calling you a liar, understand, but perhaps you should check your facts. Reality is that many signs being carried by peace protesters do defend Hussein. Further, our own Congressman Jim McDermott has said that he considers Hussein to have more integrity than George Bush. The peace movement defends Hussein constantly, and gave him the courage to defy the UN. The peace movement bears much of the responsibility for this war being necessary in the first place.
Response:
| | Not only does it appear that Americans support George Bush’s handling the | war by a majority of 76%, but the Iraqis support it by an overwhelming | majority as well. | | We’ll see how that number goes once the body bags start arriving and the | video of American POWs being tortured and killed. | | Folks might not be so enthusiastic once the death toll hits four | figures…or five. I don’t buy the argument that because we are a democracy with a free press that we are cowardly and cannot defend our national interests. This is perhaps the worst argument that the peace movement has to offer. It speaks of the attitude of the peace movement, not of the general population. These protests are large funded by communist and fascist organizations. Iraqi intelligence agencies have poured billions into funding peace protests and disinformation campaigns, but somehow we are supposed to take the peace movement seriously. Here are the things that I have heard peace protesters say: "Radiation from the last Gulf War has killed 500,000 Iraqi children so far." (Um, have 500,000 Iraqi children died of all causes together since 1991?) "The United States has used nuclear weapons on Baghdad." (This is so ridiculous as to pass with out comment.) "The American woman killed by an Israeli bulldozer in Palestine is the first casualty of the war on Iraq." (this from the woman’s college professor in Olympia) "Saddam Hussein is killing only his own people and we have no right to interfere." (Ah, the old people are personal possessions argument) "Saddam Hussein is more believable than anyone in the Bush Administration." (Congressman Jim McDermott) The peace movement says things like this, but expects to be taken seriously. I would suggest that if the peace movement wishes to be taken seriously that it should stop encouraging thugs like Saddam Hussein to defy the UN, that it should encourage the UN to enforce its will, and that it should leaven its anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism with a few facts once in awhile.
Response:
Kept it up Jim!! SFC Ron Gardner US Army / Cessna 182 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, this isn’t aviation related. Not even close. However, I’m a pilot and I was asked by a pilot friend (Hi Jay) to post it here. If you don’t like it you can kiss my Southern American ass. Last week, our small town newspaper here publicized a "peace rally" organized by a high school student here. They were planning a candlelight vigil in protest of the forthcoming war at a small park in the middle of downtown. A couple of weeks prior to this, after watching a news story about Hollywood-types making stupid comments about my president and my country, I told my wife and a couple of close friends that, "By God, if any idiots hold a stupid peace rally here in my little town, I’m gonna go counter protest!" My friends and wife said they’d join me and to let them know. So, I see the article about the peace rally when I got home from work and remembered my promise to myself. I was really tired from a long week but I called my friends to tell them about it. My friends had other commitments. I really didn’t want to go by myself so I said to myself, "Aww screw it." I cracked open a beer and watched Fox News (the ONLY news channel worth watching during this war) who reminded me that nearly 300,000 young Americans were putting their lives on the line protecting my family. The very least I could do was oppose the peaceniks and support my president with more than just words between friends. So, at about 6:30pm (the protest started at 7:00pm) off to the local pharmacy I went to buy poster board. I hurriedly made a sign that read, "HONK if you SUPPORT our TROOPS and our PRESIDENT!" I taped a piece of quarter-round molding on the poster board for a pole, threw it in the back of the truck and headed to the Big Peace Rally. I stood in front of our new library directly across the street from the park and about fifty feet from the protesters. There were about twenty protesters–damn near a riot for my little town. The local National Guard has been called out for less. They stood there for a little while chatting and occasionally pointing at me and aiming a snooty glare in my direction. I just smiled back. After a few minutes, they all lit a little candle and silently formed a circle. It was a weird site in this little town seeing those people, young and old, just standing there silently in a circle with their faces aglow. They reminded me of an episode of "South Park" for some reason. So I stood in the pool of light from a streetlamp and rather unenthusiastically waved my poster at the passing cars and at the protesters. I felt like a complete idiot standing there all by myself and almost crawled back into my truck a number of times during the first few minutes. See, I’m vaguely well-known in the area. I own a business downtown. People know me. I have kids and a wife I could embarrass. My teenager would kick my ass if he rode by and saw me. "I really shouldn’t be here," I thought. Then I thought again about the 300,000 young soldiers in and around Iraq at that very moment. If I had a kid over there I sure as hell would hope more people would do what I was doing. So I gritted my teeth and stood my ground for the time being. I even partially hid my face behind the sign when a couple of cars passed by and didn’t honk. After about five minutes, I still received no honks. However, only about five or six cars had driven by and most were occupied by little old ladies leaving the church down the street–they don’t see too well at night, you know. They probably couldn’t see me, much less the sign. That’s what I told myself. Anyway, there I stood. Just me against the puny pack of peace people. I was feeling more stupid by the minute. Jesus, what if somebody I know sees me here? The biggest worry, by far, was what if nobody honked and the peace people "won" this little battle of protests? "Screw this," I whispered and started for my truck. At about that time, a large pickup truck full of young rednecks rode by, slowed down and looked at my sign instead of the peace protesters. After a second or two, I guess they got it. The driver laid on the horn and all the occupants let out a chorus of Rebel Yells. Success! I had disrupted the silent candlelight vigil! I waved and smiled at the truck people, felt a little better, held my sign a little higher and waved it with a little more enthusiasm. The next two or three cars honked as well and gave me more of a boost so I decided to stay for the duration. In all, I received a honk from about one out of every three cars. The cars that didn’t honk were busy rubbernecking the odd site of the lit-up peaceniks or I think they would’ve honked, too. I’d like to think that, anyway. During the whole twenty-minute ordeal (it felt much longer) I got probably fifty honks to counter the twenty peace makers. Not a bad ratio, I thought. I disrupted their quiet little candlelight vigil and maybe even made them think about their convictions. Maybe. To avoid a confrontation and possible headline with me in it (those peace people can be violent, you know) as soon as they blew out their candles and started to disassemble, I climbed back in my truck and drove home to my family. I think I’ll save the poster for the next one. I just wish I wasn’t alone. God bless America. — Jim Fisher
Response:
Further, our own Congressman Jim McDermott has said that he considers Hussein to have more integrity than George Bush… "Saddam Hussein is more believable than anyone in the Bush Administration." (Congressman Jim McDermott) … Second, I cannot find this alleged quote from McDermott anywhere… If the quote you supplied is not a fabrication by someone, can you cite its source, please? As for McDermott, I heard him say it on the radio myself.
I see. Well, somehow the entire indexed content of the Internet–including several recent right-wing commentaries castigating McDermott, which I read in search of your quote–seems to have missed what you heard, despite its spectacularly incendiary character. No doubt your other unsupported recollections on this subject are just as accurate. Instead of engaging the substantive arguments being put forth by the peace movement, you attempt an ad hominem discrediting of the movement by falsely attributing preposterous views on the basis of fanciful quotes. Even apart from the unfairness of the slander, and the irresponsible diversion from serious discussion, your approach is further reckless in that you yourself< are expressing support for Saddam Hussein–albeit by ventriloquism, putting the words in others’ mouths–by inventing and publicizing statements on his behalf that virtually no one in the peace movement is actually making. Yes, I do believe that we supported Hussein in his war against Iran. I think we were also right to do this. If you remember, Iran was a much bigger threat than Hussein was. We also publicly decried Hussein’s use of chemical weapons. Hussein protested that his use of these weapons was in response to first use by Iran, an entirely believable argument in those days, but the United States continued to actively try to get Hussein to stop using those weapons anyway.
That the US "publicly decried" his war crimes is of little consequence compared to the US’s overt, material assistance to him at the same time. In any event, you accuse the peace movement–which has consistently condemned Hussein as a criminal–of supporting him (which it has never done), when in fact you yourself just expressed agreement with Bush and Rumsfeld’s support for Hussein (at a time when Hussein was just as ruthless and criminal, but far more powerful than he is now). War is peace. Freedom is slavery. For the Homeland! –Gary
Response:
| | Just to give an example of a quick overview, see the Washington Post, 30 | Dec. 2002: | | "Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during | the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, | whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy | paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified | documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was | using chemical weapons on an ‘almost daily’ basis in defiance of | international conventions." | This, from someone who suggests that I am too willing to believe everything I read in the papers. Oh well. Yes, I do believe that we supported Hussein in his war against Iran. I think we were also right to do this. If you remember, Iran was a much bigger threat than Hussein was. We also publicly decried Hussein’s use of chemical weapons. Hussein protested that his use of these weapons was in response to first use by Iran, an entirely believable argument in those days, but the United States continued to actively try to get Hussein to stop using those weapons anyway. As for McDermott, I heard him say it on the radio myself.
Response:
Here in Washington State almost all the demonstrations I have seen have been in favor of liberating Iraq and have been masses of people carrying American flags around. Of course, I never go into downtown Seattle, so I have not seen the peace protesters, but in outlying areas I see hundreds of people standing on street corners waving flags and carrying "Support our Troops" signs. Of course, you never see any media coverage of this.
Response:
I have little use for the peace movement. I still remember how I was treated when I returned home in 1979, even though the Vietnam war had been over for many years, and I had never even been stationed there. I had people like you tell me to my face that I was a baby-burning cowboy, spit at me, and tell me that I was going to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrom for the rest of my life, despite the fact that I flew cargo planes and the only combat I saw was a battle between terrorists and Philippine soldiers around my home one night — and even there I was an unarmed (and unwilling) observer. Everywhere I had gone overseas people had treated me like an honored guest. They wanted to touch my children, just to help them remember the moment. When I got home, I heard people like you saying how we were universally hated. You wrap yourself up in your tight little cocoon of peace activists, and accuse me of allowing myself to be misled by the American media. Well, I can tell you that the American media feed on bottom dwellers like you. The American media will tell you to this day that the United States ‘lost’ the war in Vietnam. Nothing could be further from the truth. The American media will talk about the ‘discredited’ domino effect that the United States feared in SE Asia. Well, the domino effect was real. We stopped most of the rest of the dominos from falling, at considerable expense in blood and treasure, but you would never know it from the American media. You people cause more horror than you will ever know. You give encouragement to criminals and thugs because they think they can get away with it — that you will protect them from the big, bad United States of America. You help regimes like Pol Pot slaughter millions, turn your backs on refugees fleeing oppressive regimes, and encourage Hussein to believe that he can kill hundreds of thousands of people and that the US will never do anything about it. You are an idiot, and if anything is monstrous about this war, it is people like you.
Response:
| | "Radiation from the last Gulf War has killed 500,000 Iraqi children so far." | (Um, have 500,000 Iraqi children died of all causes together since 1991?) | | I don’t have any numbers, but this is true as far as I have seen. You don’t have any numbers, but will believe a number that is impossible. | | | "The United States has used nuclear weapons on Baghdad." (This is so | ridiculous as to pass with out comment.) | | | well, they sure meant the Uranium enriched weapons. The Amis used about | 1,500 tons of such weapons during their last invasion there. Depleted uranium shells are not radioactive, nor are they nuclear weapons, nor did we use 1500 tons of such shells. Where in heck would you get 1,500 tons of uranium (which is more rare than gold), anyway? | | "Saddam Hussein is more believable than anyone in the Bush Administration." | (Congressman Jim McDermott) | | well, as a Congressman he will probably know more than you … He also knows more than Bush or Rumsfeld, I suppose. His remarks are so off the wall that even most members of his own party are disavowing him. | | The peace movement says things like this, but expects to be taken seriously. | I would suggest that if the peace movement wishes to be taken seriously that | | | It really must hit you hard that there are peace loving people and not | such war-mongers like most of the Amis. | I would suggest that America is the most peace-loving nation in the history of the world. We are interested only in liberating Iraq from an oppressive, fascist regime, not in colonial conquest, which is a considerably different attitude than that historically displayed by our "Old Europe" critics, for example. France in particular still treats many African nations as its own particular fief, even while accusing America of ‘colonialism.’ | it should stop encouraging thugs like Saddam Hussein to defy the UN, that it | should encourage the UN to enforce its will, and that it should leaven its | anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism with a few facts once in awhile. | | always nice to also bring anti-semitism into discussions 
As long as much of the peace movement portrays the Iraqi war as part of an American – Israeli plot to exterminate Islam, I will maintain that the peace movement is largely motivated by anti-Semitism. As I said. Nothing is too outrageous for the peace movement to say. As long their leaders make idiotic remarks like this, they will get all the respect they deserve.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Of course, it is extremely funny to see the peace movement forced to | defend | a Fascist tyrant like Saddam Hussein, going so far as to say that this guy | is more credible than the democratically elected George Bush. | | Well, let’s return to reality for a minute. The peace movement–unlike | Reagan, Bush Sr., and Rumsfeld–has never defended Saddam Hussein. Rumsfeld | and other currently high-ranking administration officials not only praised | Hussein’s regime, but provided it with substantial military and financial | support at a time when Hussein was known to be committing some of his worst | atrocities. I would like to see some evidence of that. Saddam Hussein appears to be armed entirely with Russian and Eastern European equipment, not American. Not that I am calling you a liar, understand, but perhaps you should check your facts.
Just to give an example of a quick overview, see the Washington Post, 30 Dec. 2002: "Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an ‘almost daily’ basis in defiance of international conventions." "The story of U.S. involvement with Saddam Hussein in the years before his 1990 attack on Kuwait — which included large-scale intelligence sharing, supply of cluster bombs through a Chilean front company, and facilitating Iraq’s acquisition of chemical and biological precursors — is a topical example of the underside of U.S. foreign policy." "The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague." Reality is that many signs being carried by peace protesters do defend Hussein.
"Many"? I’ve seen thosands of protest signs in recent days, and none that I’ve seen have defended Hussein. I don’t doubt that you can find some obscure example somewhere. But the fact is that virtually the entire peace movement, and virtually its entire leadership, has consistently condemned Hussein as a war criminal–in sharp contrast with the US administration, which has materially supported Hussein despite knowing of his crimes. Further, our own Congressman Jim McDermott has said that he considers Hussein to have more integrity than George Bush… "Saddam Hussein is more believable than anyone in the Bush Administration." (Congressman Jim McDermott)
First of all, if anyone were to make that remark, it would obviously be intended to disparage Bush, not to praise Hussein or deny Hussein’s crimes. Second, I cannot find this alleged quote from McDermott anywhere (though I am aware that, some months ago, he did say that Bush would–gasp!–speak misleadingly about US reasons for invading Iraq, and he said further that Iraqi assurances about cooperation with inspections should be taken at face value, by proceeding with the inspections, until shown otherwise–a stance which had nothing remotely to do with any defense of Saddam Hussein’s record, which McDermott has in fact condemned). If the quote you supplied is not a fabrication by someone, can you cite its source, please?
Response:
| | | The administration says equally ridiculous things like Iraq is funding | Al Qaeda, when anyone with half a brain would know that there ain’t room | in the anti-US bed for both Saddam and Osama-boy. | | In fact, Bin Laden has been quoted as calling Hussein a "secular | infidel." Not exactly the language of an ally, no? bin Laden has also been taped saying that the 9/11 attacks were in direct retaliation for US policy towards Iraq. Not exactly the language of an enemy, no? France is a US ally, but has been saying far less kind things about the US than "secular infidel" of late. | | I would suggest that if the peace movement wishes to be taken seriously that | it should stop encouraging thugs like Saddam Hussein to defy the UN, that it | should encourage the UN to enforce its will, and that it should leaven its | anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism with a few facts once in awhile | | I am not anti-American. I am anti-Bush and in a larger sense, | anti-Republican. Furthermore, I have never attended a peace protest. | | Here’s another concept for you to chew on, voiced recently by Jesse | Ventura. A former Navy Seal, he knows what he’s talking about. | | It made a lot of sense to me. He said that the people who are advocating | the war are hypocrites, because they’d never let their own sons or | daughters be sent into harm’s way. | I suggest that if you believe this of Americans, then you are anti-American. I know many families with sons, daughters, nephews, whatever, who are going in harms way (including my own) and we are very supportive. Let’s see, you would believe a professional wrestler and gonzo (former Navy SEAL or not), over people who have spent their entire lives studying foreign policy. I think that says it all.
Response:
Not only does it appear that Americans support George Bush’s handling the war by a majority of 76%, but the Iraqis support it by an overwhelming majority as well. We’ll see how that number goes once the body bags start arriving and the video of American POWs being tortured and killed.
The number will skyrocket. Folks might not be so enthusiastic once the death toll hits four figures…or five.
Won’t go over 500. Seems that the Iraqis are fighting harder now that the "coalition" is getting deeper into Iraq.
That’s to be expected but in 4-5 days it will be essentially over. Better warm up the tactical nukes.
For Iraq? Please.
Response:
you love me, i can tell. 
Posted in Post Traumatic Stress | 
No Comments » | 