Question:
"dickinson" <bid…@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:b11tuf$u7gol$1@ID-144939.news.dfncis.de… > >I am in fact, making a conics effort to do this > That should read "conscious"……………difficulty in multi-tasking is > another symptom and with 5 kids here on school holidays, and the resultant > cacophany……….one doing piano practice in the background, one listening > to rap, and three playing snap……. > it’s a miracle that I’m able to even turn the ‘puter on! 
Wassamatta? You don’t have Viagra down there? Dan
Response:
Kane: <snip> >Kids can be made defiant and > oppositional though, by certain kinds of > parenting. Especially by control freak > parents. Grandma doesn’t sound like > one…but, who knows.
Also kids with ADHD, PTSD, RAD, and FAS., cannot be be diagnosed with ODD. I’ve read in the doctors diagnosis book (can’t think of the name of it right now), that if the child is diagnosed with any of these then ODD must be eliminated as a diagnoses. I’ve had more than one shrink, neuro-this-and-that (been to 3 diff. types of neuro docs in the last 4 months), and therapist, that have diagnosed children with having ADHD, PTSD, or RAD along with ODD. It really pays to read and find out about these things, especially when dealing with kids, (eg. teachers and foster parents). One can go to 5 therapist and come out with 5 different diagnoses, that’s why I keep harping about self education. No one knows more about a child than the person caring for them and a good teacher, mind you, there is a need for those docs and therapists though.
Response:
Sherm wrote: >Yes, on everything. In particular, that the > good foster parents often dip into their > own reserves on behalf of the children. > cps doesn’t seem to have the reserve to > do so for the children that the State is > often the parent of.
And it’s only getting worse.
Response:
Yes, on everything. In particular, that the good foster parents often dip into their own reserves on behalf of the children. cps doesn’t seem to have the reserve to do so for the children that the State is often the parent of. Sherm. "Kane" <pohakuyakok…@subdimension.com> wrote in message
news:7ed8d1be.0301261513.3a8456b6@posting.google.com… > "sherman" <sh…@attbi.com> wrote in message
<news:ceUY9.49691$AV4.2622@sccrnsc01>… > > Often, children that come into kinship care have been exposed to drugs > > and/or alcohol before they were born and then have attachment reactions in > > addition to neurological damage. A complete assessment by a qualified child > > neuropsychiatrist can help separate organic and
psychiatric/psychological – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > damages. Without a good diagnosis, any treatment will be based upon > > guessing. > > Partial fetal alcohol syndrome or effect is very difficult to diagnose and > > to treat. The reactions to extra stressors like being in public or > > additional people in the home may trigger too much stimulation. > > Perhaps you can do some research on the net about RAD (reactive attachment > > disorder) and FAS/FAE (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome/Effect) and see if any of this > > might fit in to behavior that you are experiencing from your grandchildren. > > Sherm. > Bingo, Sherm. In fact the brief profile the thread initiating poster > offered sounded like a good candidate for further evaluation by a > qualified therapist in FAE/FAS issues. Dollars to donuts with the > child in question. > Currently a good deal of help has been found in sensory integration > work and it’s something the family can follow up on without a huge > training commitment. It’s actually just a little more focused > intentional developmental interactions that all normal parents have > with their little babies. > The exercises are called floor time, and the cover those things the > child missed due to neglect, d & A exposure. It’s not a cure all but > some rather extraordinay things have come of it. > An author friend of mine had a multiple diagnosis child, so > dramatically traumatized by events and invironmental factors that at > 18 months she could not walk, only sit with her legs stretched out in > front of her and get around by scooting. > Just three months of sensory integration activities a few minutes a > day, and she was running, climbing and jumping with and often > surpassing the other kids. She’s in gymnatics now, at five. > Control battles with these kids is pointless. Redirection can work > with those not FAS. Those kids need a training regimen that will help > them cope and become competent at some skills, and learn … if they > ever can, impulse control. > I’m behind on this latter field. Can anyone shed some light on working > with FAS kids? Grandma needs to be referred to better evaluation of > the kids condition. ODD is too much of a catchall. I suspect a very > very few kids are truely ODD and those are simply undiscovered > neurological conditions. > Kids can be made defiant and oppositional though, by certain kinds of > parenting. Especially by control freak parents. Grandma doesn’t sound > like one…but, who knows. > Jah notice that The Plant, as usual, passed right on by that MsKite > spends large sums out of pocket on her foster kids? Typical. > Too busy making It’s own reality I guess. > Kane > > "Grandma" <Peace…@iwon.com> wrote in message > > news:83abdc.0301252311.692ab54e@posting.google.com… > > > I am desperate for help in my home with 10-yr granddaughter with ODD. > > > In counseling and have all outside help but need advice at home. I am > > > also raising a 10-yr grandson with development delayment issues. > > > Major issues-constantly trying to control everyone around her and > > > really kicks into high gear with defiance when someone comes to the > > > house or we go out in public. > > > Read books, tapes, trainings-am trying the patient,setting boundaries, > > > love, stability, etc. Nothing seems to help. > > > I am really desperate….
Response:
>I am in fact, making a conics effort to do this
That should read "conscious"……………difficulty in multi-tasking is another symptom and with 5 kids here on school holidays, and the resultant cacophany……….one doing piano practice in the background, one listening to rap, and three playing snap…….it’s a miracle that I’m able to even turn the ‘puter on! "dickinson" <bid…@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:b11pjv$u57t6$1@ID-144939.news.dfncis.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Susan" <Mrs-K…@webtv.net> wrote in message > news:197-3E341DF3-92@storefull-2115.public.lawson.webtv.net… > > diagnosed the child with ODD. I along with the childs therapist > > dismissed the ODD diagnoses, but he was helpful with some of the other > > testing that he performed. > Yes, it pays not to take a psych or neuropsych’s word as gospel, but > wherever possible to seek the opinions of a multi disciplinary team > consisting of Paediatrician, Neuropsychologist, Speech Therapist, > Occupational Therapist etc. > One thing to bear in mind is that no one professional can be *fully* > conversant with all facets of the symptoms that are needed to be recognised > in order to fulfil the diagnostic criteria, and also, many symptoms > "overlap". > As a young man I was diagnosed with psycho neurosis, and have recently had > this dx confirmed (by a psych) as an "old fashioned catch all" which > nowadays would have me as suffering PTSD. This may be so, but he has > completely missed the fact that all my symptoms are also covered under the > criteria for Autistic Spectrum Disorder. The fact that my son is autistic > also leads more credence to my self dx than the psychs dx. > Although some of my symptoms are not *immediately* obvious, many folk > (autistic and carers of autistics) have recognised many symptoms in me, as I > myself do. > What I am trying to say here is that children from abusive backgrounds often > develop "survival skills" and these skills may well mask symptoms that would > be obvious in a child from a "normal" background. > As just one example, in my case, I make eye contact fairly easily (according > to how others see me), but in reality, I find it uncomfortable so to do, and > unlike a "normal" person who does this "unconsciously", I am in fact, making > a conics effort to do this. The reason that I *do* make eye contact, may > well be attributable to the fact that as a child, the matron in the > orphanage used to slap me round the head saying "look at me when I speak to > you, you shifty eyed little bastard!"………the symptom became "masked" in > order for me to survive………I suppose hers was the old fashioned version > of ABA therapy > What I am trying to say here, is that all carers and departmental workers > should be aware that there may be some underlying cause for foster kid’s > "abnormal" behaviours. Too often those behaviours are written down to > stemming from abuse, when in fact, kids in care are just as likely to suffer > from Aspergers syndrome, ADD etc as kids from "normal" backgrounds.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"sherman" <sh…@attbi.com> wrote in message <news:ceUY9.49691$AV4.2622@sccrnsc01>… > Often, children that come into kinship care have been exposed to drugs > and/or alcohol before they were born and then have attachment reactions in > addition to neurological damage. A complete assessment by a qualified child > neuropsychiatrist can help separate organic and psychiatric/psychological > damages. Without a good diagnosis, any treatment will be based upon > guessing. > Partial fetal alcohol syndrome or effect is very difficult to diagnose and > to treat. The reactions to extra stressors like being in public or > additional people in the home may trigger too much stimulation. > Perhaps you can do some research on the net about RAD (reactive attachment > disorder) and FAS/FAE (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome/Effect) and see if any of this > might fit in to behavior that you are experiencing from your grandchildren. > Sherm.
Bingo, Sherm. In fact the brief profile the thread initiating poster offered sounded like a good candidate for further evaluation by a qualified therapist in FAE/FAS issues. Dollars to donuts with the child in question. Currently a good deal of help has been found in sensory integration work and it’s something the family can follow up on without a huge training commitment. It’s actually just a little more focused intentional developmental interactions that all normal parents have with their little babies. The exercises are called floor time, and the cover those things the child missed due to neglect, d & A exposure. It’s not a cure all but some rather extraordinay things have come of it. An author friend of mine had a multiple diagnosis child, so dramatically traumatized by events and invironmental factors that at 18 months she could not walk, only sit with her legs stretched out in front of her and get around by scooting. Just three months of sensory integration activities a few minutes a day, and she was running, climbing and jumping with and often surpassing the other kids. She’s in gymnatics now, at five. Control battles with these kids is pointless. Redirection can work with those not FAS. Those kids need a training regimen that will help them cope and become competent at some skills, and learn … if they ever can, impulse control. I’m behind on this latter field. Can anyone shed some light on working with FAS kids? Grandma needs to be referred to better evaluation of the kids condition. ODD is too much of a catchall. I suspect a very very few kids are truely ODD and those are simply undiscovered neurological conditions. Kids can be made defiant and oppositional though, by certain kinds of parenting. Especially by control freak parents. Grandma doesn’t sound like one…but, who knows. Jah notice that The Plant, as usual, passed right on by that MsKite spends large sums out of pocket on her foster kids? Typical. Too busy making It’s own reality I guess. Kane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Grandma" <Peace…@iwon.com> wrote in message > news:83abdc.0301252311.692ab54e@posting.google.com… > > I am desperate for help in my home with 10-yr granddaughter with ODD. > > In counseling and have all outside help but need advice at home. I am > > also raising a 10-yr grandson with development delayment issues. > > Major issues-constantly trying to control everyone around her and > > really kicks into high gear with defiance when someone comes to the > > house or we go out in public. > > Read books, tapes, trainings-am trying the patient,setting boundaries, > > love, stability, etc. Nothing seems to help. > > I am really desperate….
Response:
"Susan" <Mrs-K…@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:197-3E341DF3-92@storefull-2115.public.lawson.webtv.net… > diagnosed the child with ODD. I along with the childs therapist > dismissed the ODD diagnoses, but he was helpful with some of the other > testing that he performed.
Yes, it pays not to take a psych or neuropsych’s word as gospel, but wherever possible to seek the opinions of a multi disciplinary team consisting of Paediatrician, Neuropsychologist, Speech Therapist, Occupational Therapist etc. One thing to bear in mind is that no one professional can be *fully* conversant with all facets of the symptoms that are needed to be recognised in order to fulfil the diagnostic criteria, and also, many symptoms "overlap". As a young man I was diagnosed with psycho neurosis, and have recently had this dx confirmed (by a psych) as an "old fashioned catch all" which nowadays would have me as suffering PTSD. This may be so, but he has completely missed the fact that all my symptoms are also covered under the criteria for Autistic Spectrum Disorder. The fact that my son is autistic also leads more credence to my self dx than the psychs dx. Although some of my symptoms are not *immediately* obvious, many folk (autistic and carers of autistics) have recognised many symptoms in me, as I myself do. What I am trying to say here is that children from abusive backgrounds often develop "survival skills" and these skills may well mask symptoms that would be obvious in a child from a "normal" background. As just one example, in my case, I make eye contact fairly easily (according to how others see me), but in reality, I find it uncomfortable so to do, and unlike a "normal" person who does this "unconsciously", I am in fact, making a conics effort to do this. The reason that I *do* make eye contact, may well be attributable to the fact that as a child, the matron in the orphanage used to slap me round the head saying "look at me when I speak to you, you shifty eyed little bastard!"………the symptom became "masked" in order for me to survive………I suppose hers was the old fashioned version of ABA therapy What I am trying to say here, is that all carers and departmental workers should be aware that there may be some underlying cause for foster kid’s "abnormal" behaviours. Too often those behaviours are written down to stemming from abuse, when in fact, kids in care are just as likely to suffer from Aspergers syndrome, ADD etc as kids from "normal" backgrounds.
Response:
Plant wrote:
<snip> >Diagnoses are assigned only to get > REIMBURSEMENT. ODD or > oppositional defiant disorder, dx, > enables therapist to code the > reimbusement slip properly, as Susan > has mentioned.
I didn’t say anything like that. Therapist get REIMBURSEMENT for visits no matter what the diagnoses is, even if there is no diagnoses. As Sherman said, this type of diagnoses should be done by a neuropsychiatrist, (although they also over diagnoses this disorder). Believe me, neuropsychiatrist get paid just for saying hello, and they get paid well. I have yet to find one that takes state insurance, although I’m sure some do. I just paid over $600.00 to a neruoshrink to diagnose one of my foster children, I paid it, not the state. He diagnosed the child with ODD. I along with the childs therapist dismissed the ODD diagnoses, but he was helpful with some of the other testing that he performed.
Response:
Oops, you’re right Kev, *EMDR* eye movement desensitization and re-processing). It’s important to go to someone with proper training in EMDR. It needs to be performed by someone that knows what they’re doing. Over the last few years, I’ve had several children receive EMDR and it’s really helped quite a bit. At first I thought it was new age hog wash. It appears to be a form of hypnotism, but it’s not. Some shrinks don’t like it, they think it doesn’t do anything, but I can say that it works,,,,when done correctly. Children are much easier to treat than adults. Unless sexual abuse is an issue, many times it can help children, sometimes sexual abuse takes many visits. But it does help and can even cure children with ODD, post traumatic stress syndrome, phobias, attachment trauma. etc. with just a few sessions, sometimes even one session. A good therapist with lots of training is a must though.
Response:
Often, children that come into kinship care have been exposed to drugs and/or alcohol before they were born and then have attachment reactions in addition to neurological damage. A complete assessment by a qualified child neuropsychiatrist can help separate organic and psychiatric/psychological damages. Without a good diagnosis, any treatment will be based upon guessing. Partial fetal alcohol syndrome or effect is very difficult to diagnose and to treat. The reactions to extra stressors like being in public or additional people in the home may trigger too much stimulation. Perhaps you can do some research on the net about RAD (reactive attachment disorder) and FAS/FAE (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome/Effect) and see if any of this might fit in to behavior that you are experiencing from your grandchildren. Sherm. "Grandma" <Peace…@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:83abdc.0301252311.692ab54e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am desperate for help in my home with 10-yr granddaughter with ODD. > In counseling and have all outside help but need advice at home. I am > also raising a 10-yr grandson with development delayment issues. > Major issues-constantly trying to control everyone around her and > really kicks into high gear with defiance when someone comes to the > house or we go out in public. > Read books, tapes, trainings-am trying the patient,setting boundaries, > love, stability, etc. Nothing seems to help. > I am really desperate….
Response:
"Grandma" <Peace…@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:83abdc.0301252311.692ab54e@posting.google.com… <snip> > really kicks into high gear with defiance when someone comes to the > house or we go out in public.
Any other "symptoms"? Aversion to social activities could be due to a number of causes.
Response:
Thank you for helping your family. It is not easy to pitch in when GD’s are with you. You are to be commended. Consider that the child has been going through a trauma. I don’t know how long they have been with you, but presumably there are issue with them. Can you imagine if you were wrenched away from your family at a young age.? Diagnoses are assigned only to get REIMBURSEMENT. ODD or oppositional defiant disorder, dx, enables therapist to code the reimbusement slip properly, as Susan has mentioned. How is child functioning in other spheres of live? School, any hobby activities, etc? It is best to quietly remind child of appropriate behavior, and not engage in excess discussion. Establish ground rules from the beginning. If they make a scene, do not reinforce their bad behavior. Or you could ask your local CPS agency to help out. (NOT!!!! Maybe the cw’s can HELP YOU. :-)) http://www.profane-justice.org (CO site for folks disgusted with ACS, DSS, DHS. DHHR, interventions.)
Response:
I am desperate for help in my home with 10-yr granddaughter with ODD. In counseling and have all outside help but need advice at home. I am also raising a 10-yr grandson with development delayment issues. Major issues-constantly trying to control everyone around her and really kicks into high gear with defiance when someone comes to the house or we go out in public. Read books, tapes, trainings-am trying the patient,setting boundaries, love, stability, etc. Nothing seems to help. I am really desperate….
Response:
First of all, make sure by getting a second and maybe even a third opinion, and read everything you can about ODD. Shrinks and therapists often jump to this diagnosis. IMO ODD is the most over diagnosed disorder that there is. Many of my foster children have been diagnosed with this when in fact they didn’t have it. If the child has ODD, I recommend MDR. MDR is a newer type of therapy which when done by the right person can be very affective with ODD. The therapist forces the patient to use both sides of their brain through tapping or little vibrating impulses, and it has to do with REM (rapid eye movement). It’s to complicated to get into here, but it works great, especially with children. Only go to an MDR therapist with experience performing it on children. I have seen amazing success with MDR.
Response:
> Only go to an MDR therapist with experience performing it on children. > I have seen amazing success with MDR.
That’s EMDR here Susan. A word of warning……….There are people practicing EMDR (legitamately) that are not psych trained. EMDR basically works by "unknotting" memory ie It helps find the "triggers" that make individuals over react to certain situations (mountains out of molehills). It is particulalry useful as a treatment for PTSD. I myself was referred to a practitioner, but unknown to myself, the practitioner was a social worker specialising in counselling, without any formal psych training. The EMDR was amazing in that it "awoke" many (supressed) memories, but unfortuantely, the practitioner wasn’t skilled enough to help me handle them. It took two years before I got myself back on track, and for those two years, I suffered depression and rages, worse than anything I had previously experienced.
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