Question:
I think Neal has said one more then one occasion that YES their is child abuse and those who commit it should be punished, But their are far more children being aused by the system(CPS) then any person can or is willing to believe, You and anyone else who is or wants to be a fosterparent should be willing to except the fact that not everything you get in your reports are the true facts,some are made up some are just opions and are later proved to be only that. No one is 100% right or wrong but everyone should be willing to look at all of the facts and talk to not only the children but also the parents and work together to resolve the problem not creat new one that never were there Shelli http://www.geocities.com/kstrucking/ihope.html let us all work together not fight eachother for the childrens sake "Elisa M. Tobia" <eto…@stny.rr.com> wrote in message news:8bvhul$ic6$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of > abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to > learn that we have some very sick parents out there. Would you want a child > to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month old child? We’re not > talking about head lice here…. > "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message > news:38E2A70D.A03515F8@home.com… > > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is > > > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > > > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > > > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > > > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > > > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have > > > a right to it. > > > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > > > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > > > mistaken in reality. > > > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > > > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, civil > > > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > > > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > > > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > > > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > > > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > > > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > > > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > > > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > > > authority! > > > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, convicted > > > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > > > constitution! > > > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > > > tyrants, I assure you! > > > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > > > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > > > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > > > earth!! > > > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > > > when she > > > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > > > old being > > > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > > > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > > > went to court > > > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > > > ordered the > > > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > > > together FINALLY.. > > > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > > > problem in court > > > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > > > their high > > > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > > > situations whether > > > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > > > not a God. So > > > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > > > the ones who > > > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > > > gut > > > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > > > video if at > > > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > > > Celeste > > > ————————————————————- > > > [Image]
Response:
>From: Neal Feldman silverst…@home.net >Have you ever seen these corrupt SOBs (and DOBs) in action?
I have a couple specific individuals in mind.
Response:
Ric Werme wrote: > Neal Feldman <silverst…@home.net> writes: > >> None of these children were better off in DSS care. > >And what was the BS they kidnapped the kids for and terminated parental rights > >for? > It was in the WWW page, Neal. One kid dies of an odd pneumonia that > I’m not familiar with but apparently takes five weeks to diagnose, > later a false domestic abuse phone call from an acquaintance.
IOW – nothing legitimate or credible and certainly nothing to justify kidnapping the children or terminating parental rights. Parents lose a child… a horrible and painful thing, and instead of support they are attacked by Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. Well, that fits the trends, don’t it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> January 5–Donna Peterson remembers hearing a scream from her husband > like no scream she ever heard in her life. Her family was just > starting to get ready for school and work on that fateful morning of > December 2, 1994 in Hyannis. Donna ran from the bathroom knowing from > the sound that something awful had happened. Her husband Tom > frantically told her their two-year-old son Randy wasn’t breathing. > Donna called the paramedics while Tom gave his son > mouth-to-mouth. They took turns trying to resuscitate him until the > ambulance arrived. The paramedics tried for a long time to revive > Randy, while his six siblings tearfully gathered around their little > brother. > The night before, Randy hadn’t felt like eating dinner. He said he > didn’t feel well. Donna checked and saw that he had a slight > temperature. The next morning Randy was dead. > The afternoon of Randy’s death, a detective gently questioned the > distraught Petersons. Then he left them to mourn. An autopsy was > performed the next morning, but the results weren’t to be known until > five weeks later. Next, a DSS field investigator arrived to ask some > questions. In the following weeks, a Parent Aide from a DSS vendor, > "New Hope Parent Aide Program," would come by regularly to visit and > chat.
They should have been sent packing IMMEDIATELY! > According to the January 12, 1995 autopsy results from the Medical > Examiner, Randy died of natural causes, pneumonia. The Petersons would > later learn from their doctor it was "microscopic pneumonia," which > lab technicians had to grow in a tube for weeks until they knew > exactly what it was. He told them the virus was lurking inside Randy > and there was nothing the parents could have done.
Wow… does that justify mass kidnapping and TPR or WHAT, huh? > According to the > autopsy report obtained by Massachusetts News, the pathologist wrote > that there were no suggestions of foul play or trauma. > As Donna described it, about 11 p.m. on her birthday, April 3, 1995, > an acquaintance of Tom’s named Marc Schindler, who had been drinking, > came by their house with his girlfriend, Heather. Donna and Tom knew > the DSS was watching them and they didn’t want any drinking in their > house…. [Details of fight omitted.]
Interesting. A constitutionally protected practice avoided for fear of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. Hmmmm… nothing wrong with the agencies or the feelings they inspire, is there now, hmmmm? > When Tom returned home after cooling off, the police arrived a second > time and arrested Tom for domestic violence. The police claimed Donna > had called them. The couple denied there was any wife battering or > that Donna had called them. The police presented a paper to Donna to > sign, which would have the effect of a restraining order and > acknowledge there was domestic abuse. Donna refused to sign it. Tom > was presented a similar paper at the police station admitting domestic > abuse.
Of course… get you to surrender your rights and just admit to their lies… how nice of them, hmmmm? > Later they were to find out from a sheepish Heather and Marc that > Heather called the police posing as Donna. And Marc signed a statement > for the couple that the two men were fighting. The couple was willing > to go to court if called to testify but Donna says DSS was not > interested; they had their domestic abuse arrest.
Of course… doesn’t matter that the arrest was bogus, the charges false. Guilty until proven innocent to those you can never EVER prove your innocence to. Nice system, huh? If they had been my kids there would be a great many large craters where offices and homes of these kidnapping criminals once were and I would have hunted down every last one of them and laughed my ass off as they breathed their last. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!
Response:
Neal Feldman <silverst…@home.net> writes: >> None of these children were better off in DSS care. >And what was the BS they kidnapped the kids for and terminated parental rights >for?
It was in the WWW page, Neal. One kid dies of an odd pneumonia that I’m not familiar with but apparently takes five weeks to diagnose, later a false domestic abuse phone call from an acquaintance. January 5–Donna Peterson remembers hearing a scream from her husband like no scream she ever heard in her life. Her family was just starting to get ready for school and work on that fateful morning of December 2, 1994 in Hyannis. Donna ran from the bathroom knowing from the sound that something awful had happened. Her husband Tom frantically told her their two-year-old son Randy wasn’t breathing. Donna called the paramedics while Tom gave his son mouth-to-mouth. They took turns trying to resuscitate him until the ambulance arrived. The paramedics tried for a long time to revive Randy, while his six siblings tearfully gathered around their little brother. The night before, Randy hadn’t felt like eating dinner. He said he didn’t feel well. Donna checked and saw that he had a slight temperature. The next morning Randy was dead. The afternoon of Randy’s death, a detective gently questioned the distraught Petersons. Then he left them to mourn. An autopsy was performed the next morning, but the results weren’t to be known until five weeks later. Next, a DSS field investigator arrived to ask some questions. In the following weeks, a Parent Aide from a DSS vendor, "New Hope Parent Aide Program," would come by regularly to visit and chat. According to the January 12, 1995 autopsy results from the Medical Examiner, Randy died of natural causes, pneumonia. The Petersons would later learn from their doctor it was "microscopic pneumonia," which lab technicians had to grow in a tube for weeks until they knew exactly what it was. He told them the virus was lurking inside Randy and there was nothing the parents could have done. According to the autopsy report obtained by Massachusetts News, the pathologist wrote that there were no suggestions of foul play or trauma. As Donna described it, about 11 p.m. on her birthday, April 3, 1995, an acquaintance of Tom’s named Marc Schindler, who had been drinking, came by their house with his girlfriend, Heather. Donna and Tom knew the DSS was watching them and they didn’t want any drinking in their house…. [Details of fight omitted.] When Tom returned home after cooling off, the police arrived a second time and arrested Tom for domestic violence. The police claimed Donna had called them. The couple denied there was any wife battering or that Donna had called them. The police presented a paper to Donna to sign, which would have the effect of a restraining order and acknowledge there was domestic abuse. Donna refused to sign it. Tom was presented a similar paper at the police station admitting domestic abuse. … Later they were to find out from a sheepish Heather and Marc that Heather called the police posing as Donna. And Marc signed a statement for the couple that the two men were fighting. The couple was willing to go to court if called to testify but Donna says DSS was not interested; they had their domestic abuse arrest. — Ric Werme | we…@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete
Response:
CPSCswrkr wrote: > >From: devilss…@webtv.net (celeste bartlow) > >What we need are for the judges to get off their high and mighty benches .. > Isn’t it interesting how individuals perceive those that disagree with them as > being high and mighty?
Have you ever seen these corrupt SOBs (and DOBs) in action? I think her description is quite mild. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ric Werme wrote: > "Elisa M. Tobia" <eto…@stny.rr.com> writes: > >Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of > >abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to > >learn that we have some very sick parents out there. Would you want a child > >to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month old child? We’re not > >talking about head lice here…. > I can’t vouch for NY, but we’ve heard accounts of CPS changing stories > to make parents look bad and DCYF look good. Stories of social > workers pressured to tone down positive comments about the parent. > Stories of children denied access to court because the judge believed > DCYF’s claims that it would traumatize the child, despite the child’s > requests to be at court and do whatever she could to testify in > support of her parents.
The data are legion… it is only the blindly delusional or selfserving who refuse to admit it. > Did you follow those MassNews links I posted a few days ago? We’re not > talking about head lice here. We’re talking about government sanctioned, > taxpayer funded brainwashing, physical abuse, mental abuse, and rape. > We’re talking hiding from CPS in a modern-day underground railroad. > Sorry if I sound like Neal, but it happens to all of us sooner or later. > Sooner if CPS knocks at the door.
Absolutely… and what is wrong with sounding like me, Ric? I happen to be right and I happen to be speaking the truth honestly and honorably. Can’t get much better than that. Being ‘diplomatic’ with Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry is like trying to shake hands with a rattlesnake… they have no hands so it is a waste of effort and all your trouble might get you is bit and poisoned. Far better to just shoot the damned thing if it is a threat to you. > On a bright note, at least the fifth foster family was wonderful. > Of course, all this could be fiction, but with apparent interviews with > both parents and children, I’d be more inclined to believe this than most > CPS reports. > Maybe on the next census they’ll ask which kids were abused by parents > or by CPS. It would be nice to get some good numbers.
Might be useful. > From http://www.massnews.com/dssseize.htm: > Family Is Destroyed by DSS > Six Children Seized > Deanna 13 years old when seized, 18 years old now. Was an Honor Roll > student.
Was… > Tarri 10 years old when seized, 15 years old now. Has suffered the > most. Ran away from DSS lockup during summer, 1999. Raped by three men > in DSS custody.
Yup… DSS just helped the hell out of her, didn’t they now? > Troy 9 years old when seized, 13 years old now. Has also suffered the > most. Parents "fear for his life." Has been in 28 foster homes, 3 > mental hospitals. DSS claims he has ADHD and post traumatic stress > syndrome. On following drugs, Depakote, Zoloft, Clonidine, Prazadone, > Disperidol and Buspar. Tried to commit suicide. Was abused at Arbor > Hospital; taken to Children’s Hospital on May 27, 1999. Now at > another, unknown institution. Parents not allowed to talk with > doctors.
Yup… another poster child for the wonderfulness of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry, huh? > Tom 6 years old when seized, 11 years old now. Now with a man who has > adopted four boys and has no wife.
Well, other than the adopted part what difference does it make? I have four daughters, three with me, and I have no wife. > Cory 4 years old when seized, 8 years old now. Two foster homes and > Pembroke Mental Hospital the first year and has been in a third home > since then. Foster parent has 24-year-old, mentally ill son. She wants > to adopt Cory and Cameron. > Cameron 1 1/2 years old when seized, 6 years old now. Five foster > homes. Now with Cory at the request of foster parent who wants to > adopt them both. > None of these children were better off in DSS care.
And what was the BS they kidnapped the kids for and terminated parental rights for? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One relates: > Tarri, who is now fifteen, ran away from a DSS lockup facility this > summer. She used the alias "Nicki Lamb" and was sheltered by a > network of concerned citizens in a little known underground railroad > for abused foster children. While on the run this fall, Tarri > contacted a Cape Cod newspaper to try to tell her story. With > assistance writing letters to her court appointed attorney, Tarri > tried to arrange a court hearing where she could have witnesses and > avoid being placed back in the Key Shelter which terrified her. DSS, > however, caught up with her and she disappeared back into their > custody on September 15 of this year. The September 23 Register, a > local newspaper, did a front-page story about Tarri titled, "Runaway > back in custody" – a story her shocked mother saw at the newsstand > when she spotted the picture of her daughter. > Tarri attempted to write down her experiences in a book she started > titled, "Just Let Me Go Home." In an outline obtained by > Massachusetts News, Tarri recalls her home life before she was > taken: "We had a warm and loving home. I used to write poetry, > sing, and dance around the house." > She wrote about her four years in DSS custody. "During those four > years I was moved to five different foster homes, five different > school systems and two states. The first was physically abusive, the > second went through a divorce, the third wanted younger children and > the fourth was mentally abusive. The fifth home was wonderful. I ran > away when DSS was going to move me again. I eventually turned myself > in and the department placed me in a locked facility. After battery > and abuse I ran again." > Also, better news from http://www.massnews.com/trfre.htm: > Tarri Peterson Is Free! > Barnstable court returns girl to family after rape in DSS care > Massachusetts News Staff > February 24–Tarri Peterson was removed from the DSS yesterday and > given to the custody of a family member by Judge Carol Smith in the > Barnstable County Juvenile Court. > The courtroom was stunned at the decision. > … > One of six children taken from their mother and father in 1995, the > 15-year-old Tarri says she was raped while in DSS custody. Although the > District Attorney in Barnstable County has known about the allegations for a > year, he won’t comment about the matter other than to say it is still under > investigation by the State Police. > — > Ric Werme | we…@nospam.mediaone.net > http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete
– ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!
Response:
>From: devilss…@webtv.net (celeste bartlow) >What we need are for the judges to get off their high and mighty benches ..
Isn’t it interesting how individuals perceive those that disagree with them as being high and mighty?
Response:
squeacky <a…@duplinnet.com> wrote in message
news:8c022k05li@enews3.newsguy.com… > I think Neal has said one more then one occasion that YES their is child > abuse and those who commit it should be punished, But their are far more > children being aused by the system(CPS) then any person can or is willing to > believe, You and anyone else who is or wants to be a fosterparent should be > willing to except the fact that not everything you get in your reports are > the true facts,some are made up some are just opions and are later proved to > be only that.
Actually you can’t believe ANYTHING that CPS or CASA says about ANYTHING! Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No one is 100% right or wrong but everyone should be willing to look at all > of the facts and talk to not only the children but also the parents and work > together to resolve the problem not creat new one that never were there > Shelli > http://www.geocities.com/kstrucking/ihope.html > let us all work together not fight eachother > for the childrens sake > "Elisa M. Tobia" <eto…@stny.rr.com> wrote in message > news:8bvhul$ic6$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu… > > Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of > > abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to > > learn that we have some very sick parents out there. Would you want a > child > > to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month old child? We’re not > > talking about head lice here…. > > "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message > > news:38E2A70D.A03515F8@home.com… > > > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > > > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is > > > > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > > > > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > > > > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > > > > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > > > > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have > > > > a right to it. > > > > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > > > > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > > > > mistaken in reality. > > > > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > > > > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, civil > > > > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > > > > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > > > > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > > > > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > > > > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > > > > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > > > > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > > > > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > > > > authority! > > > > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, convicted > > > > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > > > > constitution! > > > > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > > > > tyrants, I assure you! > > > > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > > > > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > > > > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > > > > earth!! > > > > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > > > > when she > > > > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > > > > old being > > > > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > > > > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > > > > went to court > > > > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > > > > ordered the > > > > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > > > > together FINALLY.. > > > > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > > > > problem in court > > > > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > > > > their high > > > > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > > > > situations whether > > > > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > > > > not a God. So > > > > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > > > > the ones who > > > > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > > > > gut > > > > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > > > > video if at > > > > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > > > > Celeste > > > > ————————————————————- > > > > [Image]
Response:
"Elisa M. Tobia" <eto…@stny.rr.com> writes: >Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of >abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to >learn that we have some very sick parents out there. Would you want a child >to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month old child? We’re not >talking about head lice here….
I can’t vouch for NY, but we’ve heard accounts of CPS changing stories to make parents look bad and DCYF look good. Stories of social workers pressured to tone down positive comments about the parent. Stories of children denied access to court because the judge believed DCYF’s claims that it would traumatize the child, despite the child’s requests to be at court and do whatever she could to testify in support of her parents. Did you follow those MassNews links I posted a few days ago? We’re not talking about head lice here. We’re talking about government sanctioned, taxpayer funded brainwashing, physical abuse, mental abuse, and rape. We’re talking hiding from CPS in a modern-day underground railroad. Sorry if I sound like Neal, but it happens to all of us sooner or later. Sooner if CPS knocks at the door. On a bright note, at least the fifth foster family was wonderful. Of course, all this could be fiction, but with apparent interviews with both parents and children, I’d be more inclined to believe this than most CPS reports. Maybe on the next census they’ll ask which kids were abused by parents or by CPS. It would be nice to get some good numbers. From http://www.massnews.com/dssseize.htm: Family Is Destroyed by DSS Six Children Seized Deanna 13 years old when seized, 18 years old now. Was an Honor Roll student. Tarri 10 years old when seized, 15 years old now. Has suffered the most. Ran away from DSS lockup during summer, 1999. Raped by three men in DSS custody. Troy 9 years old when seized, 13 years old now. Has also suffered the most. Parents "fear for his life." Has been in 28 foster homes, 3 mental hospitals. DSS claims he has ADHD and post traumatic stress syndrome. On following drugs, Depakote, Zoloft, Clonidine, Prazadone, Disperidol and Buspar. Tried to commit suicide. Was abused at Arbor Hospital; taken to Children’s Hospital on May 27, 1999. Now at another, unknown institution. Parents not allowed to talk with doctors. Tom 6 years old when seized, 11 years old now. Now with a man who has adopted four boys and has no wife. Cory 4 years old when seized, 8 years old now. Two foster homes and Pembroke Mental Hospital the first year and has been in a third home since then. Foster parent has 24-year-old, mentally ill son. She wants to adopt Cory and Cameron. Cameron 1 1/2 years old when seized, 6 years old now. Five foster homes. Now with Cory at the request of foster parent who wants to adopt them both. None of these children were better off in DSS care. One relates: Tarri, who is now fifteen, ran away from a DSS lockup facility this summer. She used the alias "Nicki Lamb" and was sheltered by a network of concerned citizens in a little known underground railroad for abused foster children. While on the run this fall, Tarri contacted a Cape Cod newspaper to try to tell her story. With assistance writing letters to her court appointed attorney, Tarri tried to arrange a court hearing where she could have witnesses and avoid being placed back in the Key Shelter which terrified her. DSS, however, caught up with her and she disappeared back into their custody on September 15 of this year. The September 23 Register, a local newspaper, did a front-page story about Tarri titled, "Runaway back in custody" – a story her shocked mother saw at the newsstand when she spotted the picture of her daughter. Tarri attempted to write down her experiences in a book she started titled, "Just Let Me Go Home." In an outline obtained by Massachusetts News, Tarri recalls her home life before she was taken: "We had a warm and loving home. I used to write poetry, sing, and dance around the house." She wrote about her four years in DSS custody. "During those four years I was moved to five different foster homes, five different school systems and two states. The first was physically abusive, the second went through a divorce, the third wanted younger children and the fourth was mentally abusive. The fifth home was wonderful. I ran away when DSS was going to move me again. I eventually turned myself in and the department placed me in a locked facility. After battery and abuse I ran again." Also, better news from http://www.massnews.com/trfre.htm: Tarri Peterson Is Free! Barnstable court returns girl to family after rape in DSS care Massachusetts News Staff February 24–Tarri Peterson was removed from the DSS yesterday and given to the custody of a family member by Judge Carol Smith in the Barnstable County Juvenile Court. The courtroom was stunned at the decision. … One of six children taken from their mother and father in 1995, the 15-year-old Tarri says she was raped while in DSS custody. Although the District Attorney in Barnstable County has known about the allegations for a year, he won’t comment about the matter other than to say it is still under investigation by the State Police. — Ric Werme | we…@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message > news:38E3D2A2.6FE811C6@home.com… > > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > > Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that > of > > > abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file > to > > > learn that we have some very sick parents out there. > > I am not saying we do not. However it is the government’s burden of proof > to > > show that a given parent is such accurately… it is not the burden of > proof of > > the accused parent to prove they are not. > (Hey I agree with you…. yes sometimes parents are wrongly accused,
SOMEtimes? The vast MAJORITY of times… translate: MOST times… not the euphemistic ’sometimes’ which implies every once in a while as opposed to what is the general rule! (9 out of 10 makes the general rule, sorry!) > check previous postings that I have made. Unfortunately, our judical system > requires the rightly or wrongly accused due process)
You consider due process rights to be UNFORTUNATE? Maybe I was wrong about you… in the other direction! You seem far WORSE than even *I* claimed! > > Or at least thatis the way it is SUPPOSED to work! > > And with the data clearly showing the vast majority of >accusations are > FALSE and > > the majority of children taken from parents NEVER >SHOULD HAVE BEEN and the > clear > > damage and harm to society, families, parents and children >from such cases > are > > enormous, how can you support these practices? Hmmmm? > (Please… please tell me where I can find the data you speak of…. )
Already did… San Diego Grand Jury 1992, 1991 Maine Study, Gestapo CPS’ own data, CDC’s own data, and the text and links found at http://members.home.net/silverstorm/cps.htm You HAVE read the contents of that site and its links, RIGHT? Or do you just like to demand sources even after they have been repeatedly given to you just to blow smoke? > > > Would you want a child to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 > month > > > old child? We’re not talking about head lice here…. > > And if you can prove it, prove it. THEN act. Until then you >have no > business > > acting and no legitimate justification for acting. Anti-parent >biased > paranoia > > does not constitute probable cause. It just doesn’t. Sorry > Neal, you lost me on this one…can’t follow your comment.
Then you lack even the rudimentary english comprehension skills of what should be even a 3rd grade level! I cannot help you there, sorry. > It would help me if you responded w/o writing within the same text as my > message.
Check the left column. If you learned how to use newsgroups you would find that this is the common method of response as it shows specifically the text that is being responded to. > What do you mean :and if you can prove it, prove it. THEN act.
Very basic… if you can prove it, DO SO, and only act AFTER you have done so. Geez! Do I need to use even SMALLER words for you? The longest now is only 5 letters (excepting the words smaller and longest)… > Until then you have no business acting and no legitimate justification for > acting. Anti-parent > biased paranoia does not constitute probable cause. It just doesn’t.
Correct. > Explain to me what probable cause might be in a case of sodomy?
EVIDENCE that a crime had been committed BY THE ACCUSED. You know… the kind of stuff that the CRIMINAL CODES REQUIRE. > > The fact that some bad parents are out there does not justify >or legitimize > the > > violations of civil, due process and constitutional rights for >all parents > any > > more than the existance of criminals justifies the violation of >the same > for all > > citizens. > No ones due process rights should ever be violated (or civial and > constitutional rights)
Correct. Yet under Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry they are on a wholesale basis every minute of every day. > Everyone has their right to accuse/be accused > and have their day in court w/all rights to due process. I think we agree on > this.
Then you oppose Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry as I do, huh? > > I would love to hear your explanation of how I am wrong in >this. > It’s not that you are wrong…..
Then what is your beef? > it has more to do with you are extreme in your > paranoia about CPS/courts/CASA/foster parents.
You are not paranoid if they really ARE out to get you. That Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry are ‘out to get’ innocent parents is not in doubt… it is a clearly and conclusively established FACT. > I would love to hear YOUR > EXPLANATION on how I might be wrong on this!! 
Just because you’re > paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you!
Yup… as I said. Which entirely undermines your entire claim I am extreme. It is Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry which is extreme. I am merely standing up for civil, due process and constitutional rights and no… I accept NO compromise on them. They are, IMHO and that of many others, ENTIRELY INVIOLABLE in any legitimate sense. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message > > > news:38E2A70D.A03515F8@home.com… > > > > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > > > > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge > is > > > > > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > > > > > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > > > > > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > > > > > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > > > > > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and > have > > > > > a right to it. > > > > > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > > > > > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > > > > > mistaken in reality. > > > > > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > > > > > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, > civil > > > > > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > > > > > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > > > > > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > > > > > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > > > > > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > > > > > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > > > > > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > > > > > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > > > > > authority! > > > > > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, > convicted > > > > > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > > > > > constitution! > > > > > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > > > > > tyrants, I assure you! > > > > > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > > > > > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > > > > > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > > > > > earth!! > > > > > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > > > > > when she > > > > > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > > > > > old being > > > > > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > > > > > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > > > > > went to court > > > > > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > > > > > ordered the > > > > > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > > > > > together FINALLY.. > > > > > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > > > > > problem in court > > > > > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > > > > > their high > > > > > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > > > > > situations whether > > > > > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > > > > > not a God. So > > > > > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > > > > > the ones who > > > > > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > > > > > gut > > > > > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > > > > > video if at > > > > > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > > > > > Celeste > > > > > ————————————————————- > > > > > [Image]
Response:
"Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message
news:38E3D2A2.6FE811C6@home.com… > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of > > abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to > > learn that we have some very sick parents out there. > I am not saying we do not. However it is the government’s burden of proof to > show that a given parent is such accurately… it is not the burden of proof of > the accused parent to prove they are not. (Hey I agree with you…. yes
sometimes parents are wrongly accused, check previous postings that I have made. Unfortunately, our judical system requires the rightly or wrongly accused due process) > Or at least thatis the way it is SUPPOSED to work! > And with the data clearly showing the vast majority of accusations are FALSE and > the majority of children taken from parents NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN and the clear > damage and harm to society, families, parents and children from such cases are > enormous, how can you support these practices? Hmmmm? (Please… please
tell me where I can find the data you speak of…. ) > > Would you want a child to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month > > old child? We’re not talking about head lice here…. > And if you can prove it, prove it. THEN act. Until then you have no business > acting and no legitimate justification for acting. Anti-parent biased paranoia > does not constitute probable cause. It just doesn’t. Sorry Neal, you
lost me on this one…can’t follow your comment. It would help me if you responded w/o writing within the same text as my message. What do you mean :and if you can prove it, prove it. THEN act. Until then you have no business acting and no legitimate justification for acting. Anti-parent biased paranoia does not constitute probable cause. It just doesn’t. Explain to me what probable cause might be in a case of sodomy? > The fact that some bad parents are out there does not justify or legitimize the > violations of civil, due process and constitutional rights for all parents any > more than the existance of criminals justifies the violation of the same for all > citizens. No ones due process rights should ever be violated (or civial
and constitutional rights) Everyone has their right to accuse/be accused and have their day in court w/all rights to due process. I thhink we agree on this. > I would love to hear your explanation of how I am wrong in this. It’s not
that you are wrong….. it has more to do with you are extreme in your paranoia about CPS/courts/CASA/foster parents. I would love to hear YOUR EXPLANATION on how I might be wrong on this!! Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message > > news:38E2A70D.A03515F8@home.com… > > > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > > > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is > > > > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > > > > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > > > > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > > > > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > > > > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have > > > > a right to it. > > > > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > > > > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > > > > mistaken in reality. > > > > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > > > > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, civil > > > > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > > > > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > > > > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > > > > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > > > > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > > > > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > > > > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > > > > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > > > > authority! > > > > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, convicted > > > > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > > > > constitution! > > > > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > > > > tyrants, I assure you! > > > > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > > > > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > > > > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > > > > earth!! > > > > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > > > > when she > > > > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > > > > old being > > > > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > > > > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > > > > went to court > > > > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > > > > ordered the > > > > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > > > > together FINALLY.. > > > > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > > > > problem in court > > > > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > > > > their high > > > > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > > > > situations whether > > > > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > > > > not a God. So > > > > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > > > > the ones who > > > > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > > > > gut > > > > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > > > > video if at > > > > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > > > > Celeste > > > > ————————————————————- > > > > [Image]
Response:
"Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of > abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to > learn that we have some very sick parents out there.
I am not saying we do not. However it is the government’s burden of proof to show that a given parent is such accurately… it is not the burden of proof of the accused parent to prove they are not. Or at least thatis the way it is SUPPOSED to work! And with the data clearly showing the vast majority of accusations are FALSE and the majority of children taken from parents NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN and the clear damage and harm to society, families, parents and children from such cases are enormous, how can you support these practices? Hmmmm? > Would you want a child to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month > old child? We’re not talking about head lice here….
And if you can prove it, prove it. THEN act. Until then you have no business acting and no legitimate justification for acting. Anti-parent biased paranoia does not constitute probable cause. It just doesn’t. The fact that some bad parents are out there does not justify or legitimize the violations of civil, due process and constitutional rights for all parents any more than the existance of criminals justifies the violation of the same for all citizens. I would love to hear your explanation of how I am wrong in this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message > news:38E2A70D.A03515F8@home.com… > > "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is > > > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > > > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > > > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > > > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > > > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have > > > a right to it. > > > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > > > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > > > mistaken in reality. > > > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > > > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, civil > > > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > > > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > > > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > > > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > > > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > > > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > > > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > > > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > > > authority! > > > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, convicted > > > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > > > constitution! > > > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > > > tyrants, I assure you! > > > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > > > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > > > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > > > earth!! > > > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > > > when she > > > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > > > old being > > > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > > > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > > > went to court > > > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > > > ordered the > > > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > > > together FINALLY.. > > > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > > > problem in court > > > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > > > their high > > > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > > > situations whether > > > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > > > not a God. So > > > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > > > the ones who > > > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > > > gut > > > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > > > video if at > > > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > > > Celeste > > > ————————————————————- > > > [Image]
Response:
Neal, please don’t over generalize your personal experience with that of abused children. It takes the reading of one CPS report and court file to learn that we have some very sick parents out there. Would you want a child to stay with a parent that sodomized his/her 5 month old child? We’re not talking about head lice here…. "Neal Feldman" <silverst…@home.com> wrote in message
news:38E2A70D.A03515F8@home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is > > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have > > a right to it. > > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > > mistaken in reality. > > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, civil > > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > > authority! > > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, convicted > > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > > constitution! > > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > > tyrants, I assure you! > > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > > earth!! > > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > > when she > > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > > old being > > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > > went to court > > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > > ordered the > > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > > together FINALLY.. > > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > > problem in court > > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > > their high > > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > > situations whether > > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > > not a God. So > > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > > the ones who > > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > > gut > > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > > video if at > > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > > Celeste > > ————————————————————- > > [Image]
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Elisa M. Tobia" wrote: > Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is > the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs > attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the > best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think > that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, > but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have > a right to it. > GRRRR… please do not post in HTML!!! > I am not mistaken in my actual position, Elisa… it is YOU who are > mistaken in reality. > *IF* the child is actually abused they need and have a right to > intervention, under the rules and limitations of consitutional, civil > and due process rights. Those intervening should have NO IMMUNITIES > unless they are honestly and honorably doing their job without bias, > corruption or criminal activity or knowingly violating civil, due > process or constitutional rights of ANYONE. > The fact is that the majority of children taken from parents should > never have been, and the parents are entirely innocent of any crime. > This makes those actions kidnapping and the most heinously evil and > offensive kind, done under corrupt and abusive color of governmental > authority! > Those committing those crimes should in fact IMHO be tried, convicted > and executed for commission of TREASON… crimes against the > constitution! > That would be a wakeup call to these petty selfserving ideological > tyrants, I assure you! > "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message > news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net…My > SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on > earth!! > She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits > when she > can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month > old being > scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. > But even though she seen this and put it in her report and > went to court > and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge > ordered the > child back to his parents by July. They got their act > together FINALLY.. > So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a > problem in court > with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off > their high > and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home > situations whether > it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and > not a God. So > people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are > the ones who > suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our > gut > instincts and write everything down and take pictures and > video if at > all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! > Celeste > ————————————————————- > [Image]
Response:
Hooray! Well said Celeste!! Hopefully the picture before the judge is the most factual gathering of evidence (+/-) by: plaintiffs attorney, law guardian, dss attorney and caseworker, CASA so the best alternative is determined. I know our friend Neal will think that anyone other than the parents have nothing to do with a child, but he is sorely mistaken. Abused children need intervention and have a right to it. "celeste bartlow" <devilss…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:93-38E17F0B-116@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net… My SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on earth!! She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits when she can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month old being scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. But even though she seen this and put it in her report and went to court and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge ordered the child back to his parents by July. They got their act together FINALLY.. So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a problem in court with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off their high and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home situations whether it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and not a God. So people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are the ones who suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our gut instincts and write everything down and take pictures and video if at all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! Celeste ————————————————————————— —
Response:
cpscsw…@aol.com (CPSCswrkr) writes: >>From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net >>Ok! If I got it right, then they are called Guardian Ad Litem’s in Florida. >Close. But they are really two different roles. Guardians ad litem >(or when you capitalize it, Guardians ad Litem) represent the >children as parties to the proceeding. CASA’s are not parties (at >least in PA) but enjoy special standing by virtue of their >court-appointed status. >I think Ric and Paula might be in a better position to compare and >contrast the two (and straighten me out if I don’t have it quite >right).
Who me? I’m a geek, and these days a frustrated hacker. I should be writing code to interface Linux to my GPS receiver. Paula never helps me with that sort of stuff. I’ll grant she’s busy, so I do my best. I did get a few comments about this from her. I may not have this completely right, but a CASA’s role tends to vary quite a bit between states. One constant is that they really have very little legal training and may not understand all the legal machinations going on. One useful role is to help the child understand the court process, if the child is lucky enough to be invited or cocky enough to insist in being involved. While CPS’s lawyers and the accused’s lawyers are running around before the trial, the CASA can help keep the kid from getting overwhelmed with it all. I think CASAs could be a big help if they’d introduce the kid to the judge. The judges would learn a lot. GALs have more of a "standardized" position and more in sync among all states. Their role is to present the child’s "best interests" which may be defined somewhere, but I suspect run the gamut from the child’s wishes to what CPS thinks is best for the child. GALs are often lawyers, but their role is less than the child’s attorney. It can make sense for a kid to have both a CASA and a GAL, especially if the GAL is the sort who thinks children should be seen and not heard. Okay, okay, cheap shot, but are there any GALs here to be offended? In general, children are best off if they have their own attorney who is truly independent of the CPS and the court. GALs may disagree, but I’ll just sic Neal on them. :-) Ah! A WWW page I link to about GALs also describe CASAs in Missouri, see http://www.rollanet.org/~childlaw/galdef.htm. I should’ve found and posted that last night. Sort of as aside, and from another thread: cpscsw…@aol.com (CPSCswrkr) writes: >From: "Elisa M. Tobia" eto…@stny.rr.com >>I believe it is the true volunteer, who is only in it to do what is >>best for a child, makes the best CASA. They are not paid and thus >>have nothing at stake. >Oh, the volunteers have a big stake in it. Their time and effort and >standing and reputation can be worth much more to them than money.
This is kind of interesting. I’ve been puzzling why the hell am _I_ spending so much time here? Heck, I’ve never had to chase CPS off my front steps. The answer will be in yet another WWW page that might’ve been done by now if I hadn’t been spending so much time posting here and there in the last week. CPSCswrkr pretty much got it right. It took the Linux community years to figure that out. I’ll post notes here and at a.s.c-p-s when the page is ready. -Ric — Ric Werme | we…@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete
Response:
>From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net >Ok! If I got it right, then they are called Guardian Ad Litem’s in Florida.
Close. But they are really two different roles. Guardians ad litem (or when you capitalize it, Guardians ad Litem) represent the children as parties to the proceeding. CASA’s are not parties (at least in PA) but enjoy special standing by virtue of their court-appointed status. I think Ric and Paula might be in a better position to compare and contrast the two (and straighten me out if I don’t have it quite right).
Response:
My SIL’s CASA worker was the best. So there are some angels on earth!! She comes over every 2 weeks and she even goes to the visits when she can. The CASA worker was the one who noticed the 14 month old being scared around his mother, and suffering from a panic attack. But even though she seen this and put it in her report and went to court and told the judge everything that was wrong, the judge ordered the child back to his parents by July. They got their act together FINALLY.. So no, not all casa workers are evil. Even they have a problem in court with the judges. What we need are for the judges to get off their high and mighty benches and take a GOOD look at the home situations whether it’s foster or the bio homes!! Everyone is just human and not a God. So people make mistakes and learn from them. But the kids are the ones who suffer not us, the adults. We need to learn to listen to our gut instincts and write everything down and take pictures and video if at all possible. For the child’s sake, not ours!!! Celeste
Response:
Let’’s see if I can help. In some states CASA/GAL (Guardian ad Litem) are one in the same. They are the only legal representation for children. In these situations, as I understand it, the GAL/CASA works with a pro bono attorney to prepare any petitions. In states with designated Law Guardians, CASAs function with privy to the court. They do not replace a Law Guardian, but infact can assist a Law Guardian’s role. The CASAs responsibility is to the family court judge and no other. "Mike Pellatt" <newsf…@news.pellatt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn8e1uk7.sgo.newsfrom@lurch.pellatt.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On 28 Mar 2000 04:31:21 GMT, CPSCswrkr > <cpscsw…@aol.com> wrote: > >>From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net > >>Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What is it, > >where is it and what was it intended to be? > >A Court-Appointed Special Advocate who functions not as a party to the > >proceeding but as an advisor to the court charged with representing what is in > >the child’s best interests. It is intersting that courts have chosen this > >route: a child is already represented by an attorney who looks out for that > >child’s interests; we would expect the parents to look out for the child’s > >interests; and the child welfare agency is charged with the legal responsible > >of looking out for the child’s best interests. Maybe the idea for such an > >advocate came as a remedy for the adversarial relationship of the parties in > >court proceedings. The CASA is given pretty much unlimited access to the child > >and the case file, wide discretion as to what the CASA is expected to do, and > >relatively little training to do it. There was an ad in a local paper here > >looking for CASA’s for the neighboring county – they’re just looking for bodies > >and not necessarily brains. > Sounds just like Guardians Ad Litem here in the UK. > >We don’t have them where I work, but frankly, I see CASA’s as another layer of > >bureaucracy that is largely unnecessary in most cases. > Sounds even more like Guardians Ad Litem here in the UK. > — > Mike Pellatt
Response:
On 28 Mar 2000 04:31:21 GMT, CPSCswrkr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<cpscsw…@aol.com> wrote: >>From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net >>Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What is it, >where is it and what was it intended to be? >A Court-Appointed Special Advocate who functions not as a party to the >proceeding but as an advisor to the court charged with representing what is in >the child’s best interests. It is intersting that courts have chosen this >route: a child is already represented by an attorney who looks out for that >child’s interests; we would expect the parents to look out for the child’s >interests; and the child welfare agency is charged with the legal responsible >of looking out for the child’s best interests. Maybe the idea for such an >advocate came as a remedy for the adversarial relationship of the parties in >court proceedings. The CASA is given pretty much unlimited access to the child >and the case file, wide discretion as to what the CASA is expected to do, and >relatively little training to do it. There was an ad in a local paper here >looking for CASA’s for the neighboring county – they’re just looking for bodies >and not necessarily brains.
Sounds just like Guardians Ad Litem here in the UK. >We don’t have them where I work, but frankly, I see CASA’s as another layer of >bureaucracy that is largely unnecessary in most cases.
Sounds even more like Guardians Ad Litem here in the UK. — Mike Pellatt
Response:
just me wrote: > Ok! If I got it right, then they are called Guardian Ad Litem’s in Florida.
You do not understand it right… these are in ADDITION to GALs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "CPSCswrkr" <cpscsw…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20000327233121.02620.00004944@ng-fa1.aol.com… > > >From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net > > >Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What > is it, > > where is it and what was it intended to be? > > A Court-Appointed Special Advocate who functions not as a party to the > > proceeding but as an advisor to the court charged with representing what > is in > > the child’s best interests. It is intersting that courts have chosen this > > route: a child is already represented by an attorney who looks out for > that > > child’s interests; we would expect the parents to look out for the child’s > > interests; and the child welfare agency is charged with the legal > responsible > > of looking out for the child’s best interests. Maybe the idea for such an > > advocate came as a remedy for the adversarial relationship of the parties > in > > court proceedings. The CASA is given pretty much unlimited access to the > child > > and the case file, wide discretion as to what the CASA is expected to do, > and > > relatively little training to do it. There was an ad in a local paper > here > > looking for CASA’s for the neighboring county – they’re just looking for > bodies > > and not necessarily brains. > > We don’t have them where I work, but frankly, I see CASA’s as another > layer of > > bureaucracy that is largely unnecessary in most cases. > > So there’s my understanding and my two cents.
– ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!
Response:
In Iowa a Guardian Ad Litem is the child’s court appointed attorney. Nothing else. This attorney is appointed to look out for the best interests of the child, and represents only the child in this case. The rules say the Guardian Ad Litem is supposed to visit with the child face to face at least once every 90 days. From my experience this doesn’t happen. The kids around here see their attorney in the courtroom during their 15 minutes in court every 6 months. That’s it. The rules also say that the Guardian Ad Litem is supposed to visit the child at the foster home once in every 6 month period. I’ve been doing foster care for 6 years, and I’ve never seen a Guardian Ad Litem at my home yet. I’ve heard that these attorneys receive a base pay for representing these children. Apparently they don’t feel that actually TALKING to the child is included in this price. Steph just me <thedewi…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mq0E4.1282$Jx4.58553@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok! If I got it right, then they are called Guardian Ad Litem’s in Florida. > Depending on the county they are or are not attorneys. They have a certain > amount of training, but the non-attnys’ are all volunteers who may not > understand a whole lot about a particular child’s special needs. Sometimes > they are really beneficial sometimes they are a hindrance who don’t even > seem to try to get to know the child. Thanks for the info. When I have > time I’ll trip over to some of those web sites in the other thread. > – Aula > "CPSCswrkr" <cpscsw…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20000327233121.02620.00004944@ng-fa1.aol.com… > > >From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net > > >Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What > is it, > > where is it and what was it intended to be? > > A Court-Appointed Special Advocate who functions not as a party to the > > proceeding but as an advisor to the court charged with representing what > is in > > the child’s best interests. It is intersting that courts have chosen this > > route: a child is already represented by an attorney who looks out for > that > > child’s interests; we would expect the parents to look out for the child’s > > interests; and the child welfare agency is charged with the legal > responsible > > of looking out for the child’s best interests. Maybe the idea for such an > > advocate came as a remedy for the adversarial relationship of the parties > in > > court proceedings. The CASA is given pretty much unlimited access to the > child > > and the case file, wide discretion as to what the CASA is expected to do, > and > > relatively little training to do it. There was an ad in a local paper > here > > looking for CASA’s for the neighboring county – they’re just looking for > bodies > > and not necessarily brains. > > We don’t have them where I work, but frankly, I see CASA’s as another > layer of > > bureaucracy that is largely unnecessary in most cases. > > So there’s my understanding and my two cents.
Response:
Ok! If I got it right, then they are called Guardian Ad Litem’s in Florida. Depending on the county they are or are not attorneys. They have a certain amount of training, but the non-attnys’ are all volunteers who may not understand a whole lot about a particular child’s special needs. Sometimes they are really beneficial sometimes they are a hindrance who don’t even seem to try to get to know the child. Thanks for the info. When I have time I’ll trip over to some of those web sites in the other thread. – Aula "CPSCswrkr" <cpscsw…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000327233121.02620.00004944@ng-fa1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net > >Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What is it, > where is it and what was it intended to be? > A Court-Appointed Special Advocate who functions not as a party to the > proceeding but as an advisor to the court charged with representing what is in > the child’s best interests. It is intersting that courts have chosen this > route: a child is already represented by an attorney who looks out for that > child’s interests; we would expect the parents to look out for the child’s > interests; and the child welfare agency is charged with the legal responsible > of looking out for the child’s best interests. Maybe the idea for such an > advocate came as a remedy for the adversarial relationship of the parties in > court proceedings. The CASA is given pretty much unlimited access to the child > and the case file, wide discretion as to what the CASA is expected to do, and > relatively little training to do it. There was an ad in a local paper here > looking for CASA’s for the neighboring county – they’re just looking for bodies > and not necessarily brains. > We don’t have them where I work, but frankly, I see CASA’s as another layer of > bureaucracy that is largely unnecessary in most cases. > So there’s my understanding and my two cents.
Response:
Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What is it, where is it and what was it intended to be? TIA – – Aula
Response:
>From: "just me" thedewi…@earthlink.net >Ok guys, I have never heard of CASA before some of today’s posts. What is it,
where is it and what was it intended to be? A Court-Appointed Special Advocate who functions not as a party to the proceeding but as an advisor to the court charged with representing what is in the child’s best interests. It is intersting that courts have chosen this route: a child is already represented by an attorney who looks out for that child’s interests; we would expect the parents to look out for the child’s interests; and the child welfare agency is charged with the legal responsible of looking out for the child’s best interests. Maybe the idea for such an advocate came as a remedy for the adversarial relationship of the parties in court proceedings. The CASA is given pretty much unlimited access to the child and the case file, wide discretion as to what the CASA is expected to do, and relatively little training to do it. There was an ad in a local paper here looking for CASA’s for the neighboring county – they’re just looking for bodies and not necessarily brains. We don’t have them where I work, but frankly, I see CASA’s as another layer of bureaucracy that is largely unnecessary in most cases. So there’s my understanding and my two cents.
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