Question:
If you’re not already targeted for extermination by the BATF/FBI/SS, INTERPOL, and similar authorities throughout the world, then by all means please join this thread — we might as well have company.
In light of all the previous posts (mine in no way exempted) I would tend to summarize this as: – Stephen feels frustrated by lack of _con_structive discussion – If all we concentrate on is _de_struction, that is what we get – Nuff’ said, move on to better subjects this, given the very constructive thread maintained throughout all of Stephen;s prior (and this one as well, if you read between the lines alittle) posts. g) it’s foolish to think that knowing about weapons, including how to use them, how to make them, or plans to do the same — implies a threat (considering all the family members we all have who have been in the military or law enforcement agencies, etc.)
Yes. Intent and purpose make the weapon injurious; not the weapon. Ordinary industrail tools are deadly at close quarters. In fact, the more you know about how kill, for most of us — the less likely you’ll be to fool with such things. (The ones who are truly malicious or nuts
Ayah. Within limits. May I hever live to learn the lessons a first time soldier learns in the first fire fight. May I have the widom to apply the results of same without learning them. May I have patience, peace, and endurance to do so under fire. are going to get the devices or materials anyway.) h) This all said, don’t be stupid. There are numerous
… unfortunately, Stephen, I think I already have been … …. for the reasons we previously discussed, and not the ones some people ascribe to me … places on earth where they would jail me, or worse for saying these things. And having plans to supposedly build a zip-gun (on computer) was part of the reason our own beloved ASSHOLE anti-gun bureaucracy, (and the duly appointed and supposedly adequately overseen FBI), first raided and later slaughtered (most likely manslaughter) a bunch of children and a religious sect who were selling guns to make some bucks. (The moral is not to muscle in on the fed’s rackets — cf Noriega).
Hu. He jes’ tryin’ to make his mark on his own biznez; them big boys’a don’ want no com-pe-ti-shum. And what hurts is that what I’ve just written is as honest an opinion I can make on these matters. Especially concerning my own country’s
…. actually quite calm and rather unemotional, …. all things considered "government" which has become disgustingly corrupt. I may be able to write these things to you now, but it looks like that won’t last very much longer. The left has become the right. Please, all take heed. Make your peace with your maker. For the information that we toy with on this net is trivial next to that which the world-class does on theirs, in the name of their idols — competition, manipulation, ego, and "the good of humanity."
5-10 years. maybe. But, since being at peace is best done as a moment to moment state of being, one thing at a time… OH: and thanx for your previous comms, Stephen. They did help. | — J — | | stephen (Romans 3:10,23 / 5:8 / 6:23 / 10:9,13) <— key 7 — < prior article enclosed —
royc … [deleted prb article]
Response:
This is the continuation of ongoing response. that (stephen) writes:
From out of time. …having plans to supposedly build a zip-gun (on computer) was part of the reason our own beloved ASSHOLE anti-gun bureaucracy, (and the duly appointed and supposedly adequately overseen FBI), first raided and later slaughtered (most likely manslaughter) a bunch of children and a religious sect who were selling guns to make some bucks. (The moral is not to muscle in on the fed’s rackets — cf Noriega). Hu. He jes’ tryin’ to make his mark on his own biznez; them big boys’a don’ want no com-pe-ti-shum.
Whether in guns (cp. dod), drugs (cf. fda), or contra-ban (cb. nafta). "Free" is legally defined by international agreement (cv. subparannex 6) Especially concerning my own country’s… …. actually quite calm and rather unemotional, …. all things considered
Sorry. Id jes taint m’ worl. Worry. Else I’d be kwite asore. Nice’n quite. Listenin’ foe da legion’s comin’ Leanin’ inta wind’s ahowlin’ Glistenin’ wid o Son’s agleamin’ Glintin’ offa eye’s ascreamin’ As d’Kin’dom o D’daylites dawnin’ "government" which has become disgustingly corrupt. I may be able to write these things to you now, but it looks like that won’t last very much longer. The left has become the right.
Left. Right. Left-right-left. Please, all take heed. Make your peace with your maker. For the
peacemaker information that we toy with on this net is trivial next to that
toys with which the world-class does on theirs, in the name of their idols
competition — competition, manipulation, ego, and "the good of humanity." 5-10 years. maybe. But, since being at peace is best done as a moment to moment state of being, one thing at a time…
Line-by-line. OH: and thanx for your previous comms, Stephen. They did help.
Oye. end tanks four year prevues comes t’even. Oops… solly. Modal hazard. (Mow dolz house yard.) I got better’n I gave. No fret. Thank you. We’ve come a long forever Roy. So much more’n too. Co dead end other wipe. Coded and otherwise. Eph. 6:14-18 | — J — | | stephen "might as well keep ‘em busy"
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (stephen) writes: If you’re not already targeted for extermination by the BATF/FBI/SS, INTERPOL, and similar authorities throughout the world, then by all means please join this thread — we might as well have company. In light of all the previous posts (mine in no way exempted) I would tend to summarize this as: – Stephen feels frustrated by lack of _con_structive discussion – If all we concentrate on is _de_struction, that is what we get – Nuff’ said, move on to better subjects this, given the very constructive thread maintained throughout all of Stephen’s prior (and this one as well, if you read between the lines alittle) posts.
Hey, Roy… sometimes silence is the right response (Rev. 8:1). :{ And I always inhabit the interstices, re: reading between. }: :{ Fell through the cracks long ago. Perhaps I should consult }: :{ with L. Carroll on a looking glass sequel. =- }: Old-biz: = The "tingling" power in spine or words = When we, in Joycian fashion attend to subcurrents present in conversation, then info-theory-wise (cf fourier) harmonics become obvious, and more importantly — resonant effects and chorded correlatives become evident. Consider please, that memory and imagery in our nervous systems (bio-neuro-io-nics) are resonant affects similar to the undamped occurence when seizure occurs, (ripples during ocular migraine, etc.). The Word of God is symphony, prosody, melody, organ chimes, and true ringings — even at nth-order removed from the fundament. And with the proper key-code correlation occurs. (cf. hedy lamar and antheil in patent searches circa ww2) Beneath the noise-jam. g) it’s foolish to think that knowing about weapons, including how to use them, how to make them, or plans to do the same — implies a threat (considering all the family members we all have who have been in the military or law enforcement agencies, etc.) Yes. Intent and purpose make the weapon injurious; not the weapon. Ordinary industrail tools are deadly at close quarters.
Call the calvary. Stay beyond the yellow lines. No telling when a programming glitch (ok, or noise-hit) can send the old-robo- appending. { Ooops! "What do you mean a glitch knocked out the eastern seaboard?? <grins No-error-traffic-control. } In fact, the more you know about how to kill, for most of us — the less likely you’ll be to fool with such things. (The ones who are truly malicious or nuts [x-clu-dead] Ayah. Within limits. May I hever live to learn the lessons a first time soldier learns in the first fire fight.
Baptism by fire. May I have the wisdom to apply the results of same without learning them.
Echoes of the graduation prayer from the ’skool of hard-knocks. May I have patience, peace, and endurance to do so under fire.
Isa. 40:28-31 h) This all said, don’t be stupid. There are numerous … unfortunately, Stephen, I think I already have been … …. for the reasons we previously discussed, and not the ones some people ascribe to me …
Let me tell you ’bout the witnesses of Rev. 11. Gen. 2:17 says we all gotta die. Reckon that means even the folks taken straight up — who are the seed of the two olive trees (also see Zech. 4). Of which the congregations who share their sap must go down as well. (Rev. 11:7) Is John-the-Baptist fruit of the tree of Elijah, or of Enoch? Same mortal end, either way, O Rotten Apple. Into the ground we go. And underground we grow. To rise another day. This is the way. … reminds me I’m on the clock for the nonce. Back in a flash. (Rev. 11:1) | — J — | | stephen
Response:
Yeah, right! Call in the storm troopers! This is justification for tapping every phone in the US. Get these facist Canukes oof tha net! Fuck Canada and the doughy dingbats up there suffering from cabin fever.
It’s fascist Canucks, thank you!
Response:
"Every communist must grasp the truth, ‘Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun’".
"Every capitalist must grasp the truth, ‘Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun’". "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance ? Let them take arms … The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to William S. Smith, 1787, in Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover, ed., 1939).
This is 1993 _NOT_ 1787. Tommy and Billy had rather romantic notions of war back then and their parallelisms make no sense in todays society. No longer is there liberty to refresh, and the blood of patriots and tyrants is very rarely spilled. The patriot sits in his living room and watches his neighbour being cluster bombed in Iraq. The tyrant sits in comfort while his followers get blown to bits. The leaders don’t fight anyone and when was the last time you ever saw them spilling some blood. Maybe while shaving but that’s about it. I seem to recall that George Bush was right into his golf at the time of the last bloodletting. Leaders can’t afford to bleed, it’s bad for business. "To disarm the people – that was the best and most effective way to enslave them …."
"To arm the people – that was the best and most effective way to enslave them…." Not too many gun toting soldiers are really free if you catch my drift. Vietnam vets don’t think they are free of their past and most who go to war don’t speak this way after their experiences. Ever heard of post traumatic stress syndrome? Freedom is just a construct. - George Mason ( Framer of the Declaration of Rights, Virginia, 1776, which became the basis for the U.S. Bill of Rights ) 3 Elliot, Debate at 380. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).
With todays bureaucracy one would need to have much more than arms to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Today one looks for a very obnoxious lawyer who will charge unreasonable sums of money and in the end it is tyranny that is protected _NOT_ "the people". Besides, what the hell is a free person anyways? American people are oppressed by the very laws that are set out to protect them. It’s all smoke and mirrors as I can see it. Nobody actually believes this rhetoric…. "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."
Yeah right! I suppose the people in LA constituted a force that was superior to the National Guard, eh! So you traded in your old freedom for some new false hope? Your forefathers were great writers in my opinion. - Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution" (1787), in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888).
TTYL
Response:
del … wish to use it are going to anyway. You know what Jefferson always said, alittle blood always fertilizes the tree of liberty or something like that. Uh, are you sure about that one? It sounds vaguely fascist (Hitler could conceivably have said the same thing), kind of in the same vein as "You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs" or "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun".
"Every communist must grasp the truth, ‘Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun’". "Problems of War and Strategy" (Nov. 6, 1938), ‘Selected Works", Vol. II, p. 224. "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance ? Let them take arms … The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." – Thomas Jefferson (letter to William S. Smith, 1787, in Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover, ed., 1939). "To disarm the people – that was the best and most effective way to enslave them …." – George Mason ( Framer of the Declaration of Rights, Virginia, 1776, which became the basis for the U.S. Bill of Rights ) 3 Elliot, Debate at 380. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." – Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950). "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States." – Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution" (1787), in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888). — Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA 94088
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found a file in the NIH gopher that explains how to manufacture explosives of every variety. It is a terrorist guide in many respects and I am so shocked that I just can’t believe it is available on the internet. I am a non-conformist but I don’t really think this sort of thing should be available for public consumption. If there is anyone out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from you. Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the internet. Should we allow bomb making instructions to be available via computer? Does this sort of thing provide something of value for us? I can’t imagine what constructive use this sort of thing will provide us. I don’t really need to know how to make bombs and I would hope that you don’t either. What’s next? How to do in your favorite politition or what? Maybe I am wrong about this but the thought of some kid getting this sort of information tends to worry me a bit. How do the regular members of the group feel about this? PS….I would appreciate hearing from anyone in Law Enforcement. Perhaps someone in the FBI or RCMP would join this thread.
Yeah, right! Call in the storm troopers! This is justification for tapping every phone in the US. Get these facist Canukes oof tha net! Fuck Canada and the doughy dingbats up there suffering from cabin fever. How do I get my hands on the Plans? I want a copy! I would like to run it past the Sci.Chemistry guys to see if it flies and if it is cheap enough to mass produce for defense against Janet’s SS. Who’s afraid of a itty bitty bomb anyway? DOWN WITH THE SATAN WORSHIPING MONARCHY! Death to the Queen(s). 
:):):):):)::):):) — Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA 94088
Response:
… I am the guy that started this thread and I must say that everyone is in absolute disagreement with every (weak) point that I made. Perhaps all of you feel that I should not have posted such a statement but I thought that this medium was for this kind of thing. I am not an American and I am not familiar with your first amendment, perhaps I
Clearly. should be? I am glad that I live in a country that has gun control and I DON’T think that your first amendment would be of ANY help to us in Canada.
Given that you still WORSHIP the ROYAL family, you are probably STILL inclined to TYRANNY. My intention in posting that thread was to generate a discussion that was CONSTRUCTIVE not destructive. A few respondents have shown their true colours and have expressed themselves quite well. The American way is absolutely _fucked_ and your GOD, GUNS, and GUTS mentality is absurd to say the least. American crime rates are
Europe has had the opportunity to say that tiwce now, and we’re heading for a third time as our guns & guts rescue them from an orgy of self-destruction. Canada has had many benefits from being next to the United States. That you have the opportunity to sacrifice a little security (at not cost) and a little liberty is no reason to shout for joy. the highest in the world and it’s no surprise that it is. You think
No, it’s not. That’s what happens when people toss responsibility out the window because the State has claimed it. that everyone has a right to do whatever they want and that’s exactly
Everyone has the right to do what they want as long as they don’t infringe upon the rights of others. I wouldn’t want to live in a society that didn’t have that as a central tenant. the problem with your country. Your ethics are shitty and you treat
Do unto others is a shitty ethic? non-Americans like they are inferior to you. Why are you so into guns
Some do, some don’t. Shall we say all Canadians are stereotypical based on your post? and killing people?
We’re not the ones with legal machine guns . Do you not have enough drive by shootings to satisfy you? Do you want to have bombs used instead? Perhaps you could all hide behind your first amendment and use it as a shield against normality and peace.
Define normality and peace. Is it "what I want to do"? My intentions were to talk about the proliferation of bomb instructions via gopher and NOT some piece of shit rhetoric like your first amendment. Look what happend to the nuts in WACO. Did they have
The FBI or ATF? a right to keep all those children as hostages? A typical American
No, they didn’t. They were living in peace until the ATF decided a few of them needed to die. response would be YES! Do you think that explosives will solve your problems in society. Do you think that guns are really that safe to have around your house or workplace? Get a GRIP! Wake up to reality
Guns are only as safe as the people using them. out there, you are destroying the planet with your egocentric ideology
How so? Isn’t that a Japanese logging company cutting down BC and Saskatchewon? and sooner or later you will have no way to return to a peaceful existence in society. If you think that bomb making instructions are going to help you in some way, you are pretty stupid. I supose that
It’s not the bomb information per se, but the fact that it’s still legal (for a while, at least) to say and think what you want. terrorists have rights to eh! I thought that this group was fairly intelligent and that’s why I posted my concerns RE: the initial thread. Obviously, the people in this group are narrow minded and not worth talking with. I will find another group to read from now on. Your attitudes are just a bit much to take and I hope you are happy with yourselves and your AMENDMENTS. you can stick this where the free speach does not shine!
Canada? sincerely….Robert G. White Have a nice life!
We will, thanx for caring and sharing! Brett "There’s nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction." Sean O’Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert.
Response:
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In the United States, that piece of shit rhetoric is the part of the document that empowers the gov’t to govern, and without it even the gov’t has no moral or ethical authority. They are inextricably entangled. What I said was unreasonable and I am sorry for offending you people. I have thought about the things that people have said and I am starting to realize that you are really not that bad. I screwed up and I hope you accept my apology. I am new at this and my level of discourse is that of new user. Again, I am sorry for acting so poorly. What I said was not right and I should not have posted anything. Sincerely……Robert ps…I still think that the information to build bombs is something that should not be available via gopher. I know how you feel about censorship and I must say that I respectfully disagree when it comes to this type of information being available over the internet. Lets leave it at that. BTW…I represent myself and not other Canadians.
Welcome to the "Club of the Bill of Rights", Robert. I too thought certain controls were well and good until I read some more things. I was pro-gun-confisca^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcontrol for a while before some well-to-do "gun-nuts" showed me otherwise. What we need is less interferance and more understanding. Great post. Thanks! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBLAMxRTAsUV8MXTRTAQEIsgP8CeGsgNvQW+c3aU3fpq9GLEDlT6PTrUwt Q2qN/6plLSvjyVp7GufkVRVJSTcmUmjDLa9isdKWLNoiACYX+pJQcXgZcor45gWu xpTH9Gg5yX0EF/JgrDttmTA/6nJ549uKEu9otSUFO51h1mlU4l2ztMFfviBgos2o rRlqUStJmks= =YbtF —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
Response:
]that would try to decide for us what we may or may not read, I am damn ]glad that there is info on how to make explosives. They just might come ]in handy :) ]I am the guy that started this thread and I must say that everyone is ]in absolute disagreement with every (weak) point that I made. Perhaps ]all of you feel that I should not have posted such a statement but I ]thought that this medium was for this kind of thing. I don’t think anyone who posted in reply to you thinks you should be silenced. That’s the difference between you and us. You seem to think those who might publish plans for constructing armaments should be silenced. Thrown in the gulag, perhaps? ]I am not an ]American and I am not familiar with your first amendment, perhaps I ]should be? Perhaps you should. The First Amendment is the only thing that keeps the bureaucrats in Washington DC from banning everything from Playboy to the Anarchist’s Cookbook. ]I am glad that I live in a country that has gun control ]and I DON’T think that your first amendment would be of ANY help to us ]in Canada. Our First Amendment doesn’t apply to gun control, friend, it applies to mind control–freedom of speech, and freedom to posess information. Possession of bomb plans is not poseesion of a bomb. You are quite mistaken if you believe that the US does not have gun control. Our anti-freedom laws are nearly as draconian as yours. ]My intention in posting that thread was to generate a ]discussion that was CONSTRUCTIVE not destructive. A few respondents ]have shown their true colours and have expressed themselves quite ]well. The American way is absolutely _fucked_ and your GOD, GUNS, and ]GUTS mentality is absurd to say the least. For your information, I am an athiest, anti-imperialist, and pacifist. I do not believe in guns, guts, or glory. I believe in freedom. Cowardly totalitarians like yourself may feel free to sit tight in the Great White North under the oppressive thumb of your Big Brother. ] My intentions were to talk about the proliferation of bomb ]instructions via gopher and NOT some piece of shit rhetoric like your ]first amendment. You’re confusing the First and Second Amendments to our Constitution, knucklehead. The First Amendment is why the US government can’t BAN BOOKS, a routine occurence in the Police State north of the border. I pity you that your mind is so small after years of brainwashing by the state. ]you can stick this where the free speach does not shine! ] sincerely….Robert G. White ]Have a nice life! I’m sure you can find a good place to stick it, there’s no free speech where you seem to come from. Hitler would have won if he’d had loyal supporters like you! Cheers! — "[The United States] can’t be so fixed on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans…" — President Bill Clinton, 3/1/93 during a press conference in Piscataway, NJ
Response:
]Yes!!!! Plus it’s not as if this information is hard to find and those who ]wish to use it are going to anyway. You know what Jefferson always said, ]alittle blood always fertilizes the tree of liberty or something like that. ]Uh, are you sure about that one? It sounds vaguely fascist (Hitler could ]conceivably have said the same thing), kind of in the same vein as "You can’t ]make an omelet without breaking eggs" or "Political power grows out of the ]barrel of a gun". Actually it was "the blood of tyrants" that ought to be spilled. Jefferson suggested a Revolution every twenty years to keep the government in line. Way off the censorship thread….. — "[The United States] can’t be so fixed on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans…" — President Bill Clinton, 3/1/93 during a press conference in Piscataway, NJ
Response:
American crime rates are the highest in the world and it’s no surprise that it is. You think that everyone has a right to do whatever they want and that’s exactly the problem with your country.
Canada must have pretty funny-looking vehicles, what with all those horses hitched _behind_ the carts… My intentions were to talk about the proliferation of bomb instructions via gopher and NOT some piece of shit rhetoric like your first amendment.
In the United States, that piece of shit rhetoric is the part of the document that empowers the gov’t to govern, and without it even the gov’t has no moral or ethical authority. They are inextricably entangled. Look what happend to the nuts in WACO.
Yes, a classic example of why we are so defensive about our Constitution. going to help you in some way, you are pretty stupid. I supose that terrorists have rights to eh!
Why, yes, as a matter of fact they do. That’s one reason why we are morally superior in this discussion, "eh?". you can stick this where the free speach does not shine!
Typical. Can’t even spell the word, let alone understand it. – Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want, it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.
Response:
In the United States, that piece of shit rhetoric is the part of the document that empowers the gov’t to govern, and without it even the gov’t has no moral or ethical authority. They are inextricably entangled.
What I said was unreasonable and I am sorry for offending you people. I have thought about the things that people have said and I am starting to realize that you are really not that bad. I screwed up and I hope you accept my apology. I am new at this and my level of discourse is that of new user. Again, I am sorry for acting so poorly. What I said was not right and I should not have posted anything. Sincerely……Robert ps…I still think that the information to build bombs is something that should not be available via gopher. I know how you feel about censorship and I must say that I respectfully disagree when it comes to this type of information being available over the internet. Lets leave it at that. BTW…I represent myself and not other Canadians.
Response:
If you’re not already targeted for extermination by the BATF/FBI/SS, INTERPOL, and similar authorities throughout the world, then by all means please join this thread — we might as well have company. a) criminals and oppressors already have the information; and more importantly, the devices to use against you b) a deadly bomb can be made out of materials most likely within 100 feet of where you are, (consider all the gasoline and flammables), and yes I still mean pyro- technic c) more damage (city destroying) can be done with fire (without getting into pyrotechnics), by interupting water or communication service, prior to torching a building (or block) than you can with most bombs d) when they start passing descriptions of how to make bio-warfare materials — I’ll worry with you (soon no doubt)… chemical-warfare is bad enough e) the net already has ongoing discussions about bomb making — check the appropriate newsgroup, (personally, I wish everyone knew how, for exactly the same reason every country with nukes is accorded some "respect") f) *we* might be able to talk about bomb making, but try selling a product, or cracking racial jokes, and see what happens (What do you think this suggests?) g) it’s foolish to think that knowing about weapons, including how to use them, how to make them, or plans to do the same — implies a threat (considering all the family members we all have who have been in the military or law enforcement agencies, etc.) In fact, the more you know about how kill, for most of us — the less likely you’ll be to fool with such things. (The ones who are truly malicious or nuts are going to get the devices or materials anyway.) h) This all said, don’t be stupid. There are numerous places on earth where they would jail me, or worse for saying these things. And having plans to supposedly build a zip-gun (on computer) was part of the reason our own beloved ASSHOLE anti-gun bureaucracy, (and the duly appointed and supposedly adequately overseen FBI), first raided and later slaughtered (most likely manslaughter) a bunch of children and a religious sect who were selling guns to make some bucks. (The moral is not to muscle in on the fed’s rackets — cf Noriega). And what hurts is that what I’ve just written is as honest an opinion I can make on these matters. Especially concerning my own country’s "government" which has become disgustingly corrupt. I may be able to write these things to you now, but it looks like that won’t last very much longer. The left has become the right. Please, all take heed. Make your peace with your maker. For the information that we toy with on this net is trivial next to that which the world-class does on theirs, in the name of their idols — competition, manipulation, ego, and "the good of humanity." | — J — | | stephen (Romans 3:10,23 / 5:8 / 6:23 / 10:9,13) <— key 7 — < prior article enclosed — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found a file in the NIH gopher that explains how to manufacture explosives of every variety. It is a terrorist guide in many respects Why are you worried about "terrorist guides" and why do you go from one to the other? If I tell you how to build a bomb, does that mean that you are going to do something illegal? What if you thought that the Fed’s were going to come raid your "compound" and you wanted to defend yourself? What if you wanted to blow a stump out? What if you like big noises? Come on… these two things, bombs and terrorist are NOT the same. and I am so shocked that I just can’t believe it is available on the internet. Why not? If it is available at the public library then why not on Iternet? What is different about Internet? I am a non-conformist but I don’t really think this sort of thing should be available for public consumption. What about the 2nd amendment? Does it say "guns"; no, it says "arms". Explosives are a legitimate defense against tanks or hundreds of men. If there is anyone out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from you. Well, I am sure you will find lots of people who disagree with your basic assumption. Why should we restrict ANY type of information. Isn’t that what the1st amendment is all about? SInce when do YOU get to decide that I am not fit to have a TYPE of information? Isn’t that the ToughtPolice[TM]? Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the internet. Well, it pertains to the Internet just like it pertains to the regular library. By the way, you didn’t list how this info is to be obtained. Since someone made it available, then they thought that it was "for the masses" where you do not. I think that it is. I also feel that info on how to tap phones and get data from computers and kill the president should all be available. Think about it… I can have a gun and it is not a crime until and if I shoot someone. We must have freedom of thought. Without that AND FULLY FREE not what someone wants to be free, then we have no freedom and the Bill of Rights isn’t worth the hemp it is printed on… Should we allow bomb making instructions to be available via computer? Why not? Or are you just not thinking or are you blowing smoke? No flames, just curious… Does this sort of thing provide something of value for us? Yes, just as knowing the structure of a distant galaxy that will never affect us does: pure information. I can’t imagine what constructive use this sort of thing will provide us. So? Just cause you can’t see a USE for it means I shouldn’t be able to get it? Think a bit more on that one… I don’t really need to know how to make bombs and I would hope that you don’t either. Why? The army does… the bosnian’s do… the BATF does… Why should I not have access to such info in a an easy to get fashion. Are you going to tell me next that I should not know martial arts or shoot a gun or spy on someone? The oppressors do! What’s next? How to do in your favorite politition or what? Why not? Just because I know how to do it may keep them on their toes… Read the 2nd amendment and why it was created. Does this also mean that I shouldn’t have PGP? Maybe I am wrong about this but the thought of some kid getting this sort of information tends to worry me a bit. Why? Is the fact that he has such info going to make him want to do it more? Or is the fact that he has an urge to do it and now the means? Think about what this says… It is a nonsensicle statement. Why does this "kid" worry you. Does the fact that a 12 year old know how to shoot a gun bother you? If not, why — and reapply to the original question. If yes, why? Now he has more facts in his mind and can see the world from a better informed viewpoint. Again, these are not flames; it is just that you have not taken your argument to the logical end. Keep thinking though! How do the regular members of the group feel about this? PS….I would appreciate hearing from anyone in Law Enforcement. Perhaps someone in the FBI or RCMP would join this thread. Why? Are you interested in getting these thought police into the dicussion? If so, why do you think that they are more qualified to make these decisions with the "bomb-making" info than I am? Are they not just people like I am? Do you think that the IRA is capable of making a bomb without this info? What about the WTC bombing? Would they have not found the info if they wanted it? If not, why… We must protect ourselves against all forms of rights encroachment. The first means "You can say whatever you want" basically. Think about what would happen if we try to let GOVERNMENT (the epitome of INCOMPETANCE) regulate what kinds of info are "nice" and what are not… THINK ABOUT IT. I am sure that you are concerned and well meaning or you would not have posted the above. WHERE DID YOU SEE THIS INFO AND HOW CAN I GET IT?!?!?!?
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My view on having bomb making info publically available is that an armed populace is the best defense against tyranny. -Steve
Yes!!!! Plus it’s not as if this information is hard to find and those who wish to use it are going to anyway. You know what Jefferson always said, alittle blood always fertilizes the tree of liberty or something like that. <Gary
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found a file in the NIH gopher that explains how to manufacture explosives of every variety. It is a terrorist guide in many respects and I am so shocked that I just can’t believe it is available on the internet. I am a non-conformist but I don’t really think this sort of thing should be available for public consumption. If there is anyone out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from you. Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the internet. Should we allow bomb making instructions to be available via computer? Does this sort of thing provide something of value for us? I can’t imagine what constructive use this sort of thing will provide us. I don’t really need to know how to make bombs and I would hope that you don’t either. What’s next? How to do in your favorite politition or what? Maybe I am wrong about this but the thought of some kid getting this sort of information tends to worry me a bit. How do the regular members of the group feel about this?
You need to check out a book by Bruce Sterling called _The Hacker Crackdown_ where he discusses just such an issue. His position is that this information is not really dangerous since so much of it is available in other places. What he argues is that much of the hacker ego is bound up in the possession of forbidden/hidden knowledge and that this knowledge extends beyond computers into areas of phone phreaking and anarcho-terrorist material. No one really uses this info to construct bombs, rather they keep it around because it is anti-authoritarian to do so. As Sterling points out, and rightly so, you don’t hear about hackers blowing themselves up in the news very often, do you? That’s because it is the information itself which is valuable, not the bombs they might build from the plans they have. The information is not a MEANS to and END, rather it is an END unto itself. PS….I would appreciate hearing from anyone in Law Enforcement. Perhaps someone in the FBI or RCMP would join this thread.
Please buy the Sterling book before you make such hasty invitations to the cops to come poking around in the net. They are ill equiped to do so and often cause more trouble than they solve. -Phil — PHIL SCARR We are Microsoft… / (o) 804.243.0229 University of / OS/2 is irrelevant. (f) 804.243.0294 HP-UX is my life! Prepare to be assimilated… / …uunet!virginia!prs9k
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My intentions were to talk about the proliferation of bomb instructions via gopher and NOT some piece of shit rhetoric like your first amendment. Look what happend to the nuts in WACO. Did they have
deletions – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – have around your house or workplace? Get a GRIP! Wake up to reality out there, you are destroying the planet with your egocentric ideology and sooner or later you will have no way to return to a peaceful existence in society. If you think that bomb making instructions are going to help you in some way, you are pretty stupid. I supose that terrorists have rights to eh! I thought that this group was fairly intelligent and that’s why I posted my concerns RE: the initial thread. Obviously, the people in this group are narrow minded and not worth talking with. I will find another group to read from now on. Your attitudes are just a bit much to take and I hope you are happy with yourselves and your AMENDMENTS. you can stick this where the free speach does not shine! sincerely….Robert G. White Have a nice life!
My friend, you posted a very strongly stated (I might add overstated) post about how you found info about explosives on the net objectionable. INstead of trying to start a discussion about the proliferation of violence and violent attitudes in society, you talked about how unnacceptable that was and how access to such info should not be allowed. Several people reacted quite strongly (perhaps abit too much, perhaps not), and you respond with this fuming, obscenity laden,knee jerk diatribe. You actually have the gall to say you were interested in rational debate after this? I find it funny you try to question the intelligence of posters in this group while your current posting has all the clear thought of a brainless toad. However, this IS a free speec medium (more or less), and you have full right to fume if you want to. But don’t carry on with this knee jerk stuff about how AMERICANS are so violent. If you bothered to read very carefully, many of the objections were regarding your desire to remove the info about bombs, but not the USE of bombs themselves. There were of course, posts about the good use of bombs vs. people who compromise free speech, but that’s a bit different. Don’t tell use to get a grip, Robert. Get one yourself. Brian Harmon "What is done from love is always beyond Miami University good and evil." Oxford, Ohio 45056 -Nietzsche, _Beyond Good and Evil_
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My view on having bomb making info publically available is that an armed populace is the best defense against tyranny.
Has anyone considered the possibility of this information being an FBI plant like "The Anarchists’ Cookbook" supposedly is? Maybe the explosives will just blow you up and no one else. -Steve Yes!!!! Plus it’s not as if this information is hard to find and those who wish to use it are going to anyway. You know what Jefferson always said, alittle blood always fertilizes the tree of liberty or something like that.
Uh, are you sure about that one? It sounds vaguely fascist (Hitler could conceivably have said the same thing), kind of in the same vein as "You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs" or "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun".
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]If there is anyone ]out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from ]you. Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a ]constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the ]internet. Oops. I don’t engage in constructive debate with censors.
Then why did you bother? Brian Harmon Your reasoning is silly, illogical, Miami University irrational, and it’s beginning Oxford, Ohio 45056 to make sense.
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My view on having bomb making info publically available is that an armed populace is the best defense against tyranny. -Steve
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I found a file in the NIH gopher that explains how to manufacture explosives of every variety. It is a terrorist guide in many respects
Why are you worried about "terrorist guides" and why do you go from one to the other? If I tell you how to build a bomb, does that mean that you are going to do something illegal? What if you thought that the Fed’s were going to come raid your "compound" and you wanted to defend yourself? What if you wanted to blow a stump out? What if you like big noises? Come on… these two things, bombs and terrorist are NOT the same. and I am so shocked that I just can’t believe it is available on the internet.
Why not? If it is available at the public library then why not on Iternet? What is different about Internet? I am a non-conformist but I don’t really think this sort of thing should be available for public consumption.
What about the 2nd amendment? Does it say "guns"; no, it says "arms". Explosives are a legitimate defense against tanks or hundreds of men. If there is anyone out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from you.
Well, I am sure you will find lots of people who disagree with your basic assumption. Why should we restrict ANY type of information. Isn’t that what the1st amendment is all about? SInce when do YOU get to decide that I am not fit to have a TYPE of information? Isn’t that the ToughtPolice[TM]? Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the internet.
Well, it pertains to the Internet just like it pertains to the regular library. By the way, you didn’t list how this info is to be obtained. Since someone made it available, then they thought that it was "for the masses" where you do not. I think that it is. I also feel that info on how to tap phones and get data from computers and kill the president should all be available. Think about it… I can have a gun and it is not a crime until and if I shoot someone. We must have freedom of thought. Without that AND FULLY FREE not what someone wants to be free, then we have no freedom and the Bill of Rights isn’t worth the hemp it is printed on… Should we allow bomb making instructions to be available via computer?
Why not? Or are you just not thinking or are you blowing smoke? No flames, just curious… Does this sort of thing provide something of value for us? Yes, just as knowing the structure of a distant galaxy that will never affect us does: pure information. I can’t imagine what constructive use this sort of thing will provide us.
So? Just cause you can’t see a USE for it means I shouldn’t be able to get it? Think a bit more on that one… I don’t really need to know how to make bombs and I would hope that you don’t either.
Why? The army does… the bosnian’s do… the BATF does… Why should I not have access to such info in a an easy to get fashion. Are you going to tell me next that I should not know martial arts or shoot a gun or spy on someone? The oppressors do! What’s next? How to do in your favorite politition or what?
Why not? Just because I know how to do it may keep them on their toes… Read the 2nd amendment and why it was created. Does this also mean that I shouldn’t have PGP? Maybe I am wrong about this but the thought of some kid getting this sort of information tends to worry me a bit.
Why? Is the fact that he has such info going to make him want to do it more? Or is the fact that he has an urge to do it and now the means? Think about what this says… It is a nonsensicle statement. Why does this "kid" worry you. Does the fact that a 12 year old know how to shoot a gun bother you? If not, why — and reapply to the original question. If yes, why? Now he has more facts in his mind and can see the world from a better informed viewpoint. Again, these are not flames; it is just that you have not taken your argument to the logical end. Keep thinking though! How do the regular members of the group feel about this? PS….I would appreciate hearing from anyone in Law Enforcement. Perhaps someone in the FBI or RCMP would join this thread.
Why? Are you interested in getting these thought police into the dicussion? If so, why do you think that they are more qualified to make these decisions with the "bomb-making" info than I am? Are they not just people like I am? Do you think that the IRA is capable of making a bomb without this info? What about the WTC bombing? Would they have not found the info if they wanted it? If not, why… We must protect ourselves against all forms of rights encroachment. The first means "You can say whatever you want" basically. Think about what would happen if we try to let GOVERNMENT (the epitome of INCOMPETANCE) regulate what kinds of info are "nice" and what are not… THINK ABOUT IT. I am sure that you are concerned and well meaning or you would not have posted the above. WHERE DID YOU SEE THIS INFO AND HOW CAN I GET IT?!?!?!?
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My view on having bomb making info publically available is that an armed populace is the best defense against tyranny. -Steve Yes!!!! Plus it’s not as if this information is hard to find and those who wish to use it are going to anyway. You know what Jefferson always said, alittle blood always fertilizes the tree of liberty or something like that. <Gary
Hey, as long as there are people like the one who started this thread, that would try to decide for us what we may or may not read, I am damn glad that there is info on how to make explosives. They just might come in handy :)
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My view on having bomb making info publically available is that an armed populace is the best defense against tyranny. -Steve Yes!!!! Plus it’s not as if this information is hard to find and those who wish to use it are going to anyway. You know what Jefferson always said, alittle blood always fertilizes the tree of liberty or something like that. <Gary Hey, as long as there are people like the one who started this thread, that would try to decide for us what we may or may not read, I am damn glad that there is info on how to make explosives. They just might come in handy :)
I am the guy that started this thread and I must say that everyone is in absolute disagreement with every (weak) point that I made. Perhaps all of you feel that I should not have posted such a statement but I thought that this medium was for this kind of thing. I am not an American and I am not familiar with your first amendment, perhaps I should be? I am glad that I live in a country that has gun control and I DON’T think that your first amendment would be of ANY help to us in Canada. My intention in posting that thread was to generate a discussion that was CONSTRUCTIVE not destructive. A few respondents have shown their true colours and have expressed themselves quite well. The American way is absolutely _fucked_ and your GOD, GUNS, and GUTS mentality is absurd to say the least. American crime rates are the highest in the world and it’s no surprise that it is. You think that everyone has a right to do whatever they want and that’s exactly the problem with your country. Your ethics are shitty and you treat non-Americans like they are inferior to you. Why are you so into guns and killing people? Do you not have enough drive by shootings to satisfy you? Do you want to have bombs used instead? Perhaps you could all hide behind your first amendment and use it as a shield against normality and peace. My intentions were to talk about the proliferation of bomb instructions via gopher and NOT some piece of shit rhetoric like your first amendment. Look what happend to the nuts in WACO. Did they have a right to keep all those children as hostages? A typical American response would be YES! Do you think that explosives will solve your problems in society. Do you think that guns are really that safe to have around your house or workplace? Get a GRIP! Wake up to reality out there, you are destroying the planet with your egocentric ideology and sooner or later you will have no way to return to a peaceful existence in society. If you think that bomb making instructions are going to help you in some way, you are pretty stupid. I supose that terrorists have rights to eh! I thought that this group was fairly intelligent and that’s why I posted my concerns RE: the initial thread. Obviously, the people in this group are narrow minded and not worth talking with. I will find another group to read from now on. Your attitudes are just a bit much to take and I hope you are happy with yourselves and your AMENDMENTS. you can stick this where the free speach does not shine! sincerely….Robert G. White Have a nice life!
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] I found a file in the NIH gopher that explains how to manufacture ]explosives of every variety. It is a terrorist guide in many respects ]and I am so shocked that I just can’t believe it is available on the ]internet. Thanks for letting me know so I can look for it, and disseminate it as widely as possible. ]I am a non-conformist <HAH! but I don’t really think this sort of ]thing should be available for public consumption. You sound like a rather conforming non-conformist, comrade. ]If there is anyone ]out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from ]you. Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a ]constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the ]internet. Oops. I don’t engage in constructive debate with censors. ]Should we allow bomb making instructions to be available via ]computer? Yep. ]Does this sort of thing provide something of value for us? Yep, tells us how to make bombs (for entertainment purposes only, of course). ]I can’t imagine what constructive use this sort of thing will provide us. You don’t have a particularly active imagination, do you? ]I don’t really need to know how to make bombs and I would hope ]that you don’t either. Nope, I don’t, but that’s irrelevant. No information should be censored simply because it offends your delicate sensibilities. ]What’s next? How to do in your favorite ]politition or what? Maybe I am wrong about this but the thought of ]some kid getting this sort of information tends to worry me a bit. Doesn’t worry me. Then again, I’m not paranoid. I suggest someone post the Gopher reference to some K-12 newsgroups. —
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I found a file in the NIH gopher that explains how to manufacture explosives of every variety. It is a terrorist guide in many respects and I am so shocked that I just can’t believe it is available on the internet. I am a non-conformist but I don’t really think this sort of thing should be available for public consumption. If there is anyone out there that shares my sentiments I would appreciate hearing from you. Perhaps you could post your opinions on this and start a constructive debate on terrorist activity as it pertains to the internet. Should we allow bomb making instructions to be available via computer? Does this sort of thing provide something of value for us? I can’t imagine what constructive use this sort of thing will provide us. I don’t really need to know how to make bombs and I would hope that you don’t either. What’s next? How to do in your favorite politition or what? Maybe I am wrong about this but the thought of some kid getting this sort of information tends to worry me a bit. How do the regular members of the group feel about this? PS….I would appreciate hearing from anyone in Law Enforcement. Perhaps someone in the FBI or RCMP would join this thread.
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First off, anyone who wants to make a bomb doesn’t need to log on to a computer to find out how. I know several techniques of making them myself. Problem with that is, most ways to make highly dangerous explosives put the maker in a high amount of danger. Yet, I have made a few. Anyway, that’s what the United States is supposed to be about, freedom. Although I feel it falls far short from what freedom really is, at least you can see that a few people are trying. Freedom of speech includes the right to print books and materials that tell people how to contruct bombs, drugs, or if they wanted to include it, how to assassinate your favorite politician. I am glad for this. Personally, I would like to knock off a few people, but that’s just an opinion. Now, if you are complaining about this stuff because your "mother" country normally protects you from such knowledge (btw, try the library, most of the time you find the info there), maybe you should contact the server through which you net and tell them that such access should be denied from you. Final thing, where exactly is it that you can get the bomb information over net. I would be interested in seeing any new ideas. Thanks. One man’s ceiling is another Michael S. Daines
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people are trying. Freedom of speech includes the right to print books and materials that tell people how to contruct bombs, drugs, or if they wanted to include it, how to assassinate your favorite politician. I am glad for this. Personally, I would like to knock off a few people, but that’s just an opinion.
I have always admired the people that came out of the University of Chicago and as everyone knows, many great people have come from there. It’s too bad you are not one of them. I agree with the freedom of speech you talk of but I just can’t seem to grasp why you are so interested in knocking people off. I will not give out the location of the document and I wish everyone would stop asking for it. Why don’t you go to your library and try and find it there. Now, if you are complaining about this stuff because your "mother" country normally protects you from such knowledge (btw, try the library, most of the time you find the info there), maybe you should contact the server through which you net and tell them that such access should be denied from you.
This is a good idea and I am surprised that you came out with it. I am not really worried about the document itself, I am worried about what it represents in terms of our social milieu. If I could get people to talk of the consequences of having this sort of thing on the net, I would be happy. I am not suggesting that my opinions are good or bad, I am merely trying to talk about something that concerns me and a number of other people throughout the world. Bombs and terrorism are becoming a fact of life and if we don’t try to solve problems with other measures we will be in deep shit a number of years from now. Terrorism runs rampent in Europe and it is becoming a fact of life in the United States as well. Perhaps this is not such a good thing and we might be better off if we figure out a security measure for this type of information. I don’t expect that many will agree with this and I have heard from a number of Americans on this issue. The net does not belong to Americans and Americans are not the final arbiters of how information will be recieved on the net. I was quite shocked to find the document, but after talking with a number of net users, I realize that it has been around for quite a long time and few have given it much thought. Lets give it the thought now rather than just accepting it at face value. So far, only two or three people agree with me and about twenty don’t. Can anyone think of a reason why only Americans are responding? Why is it that people from Europe or Oz have not responded? Perhaps they don’t subscribe to alt.activism because it’s an Americanized group. I have seen only American users in the group and I am starting to wonder if people from other countries read it? If you are non-American please give us some input on this thread. Final thing, where exactly is it that you can get the bomb information over net. I would be interested in seeing any new ideas. Thanks. One man’s ceiling is another Michael S. Daines
I will not give out the location of the document because I don’t believe that I should. It’s widely available though.
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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Final thing, where exactly is it that you can get the bomb information over net. I would be interested in seeing any new ideas. Thanks. One man’s ceiling is another Michael S. Daines I will not give out the location of the document because I don’t believe that I should. It’s widely available though.
Could someone please mail this document and any other "banned" (notice the quotes) files to me? I collect info that may be of use after the fall of the West I deleted the majority of that article, but the poster said things like putting security on some "sensitive" files… I will never understand why so many people feel a need to control not what people do (like crime) but what people THINK… We live in a world of good intentioned (and not so good intentioned) thought police. LET ME THINK AND SAY WHAT I WANT EVEN IF IT IS WRONG (which it never is … . I will let you do the same. There are LOTS of reasons someone might want the above info. One that those fun censors would love: If you know HOW to make a bomb and HOW to plant it, you will be able to recognize when someone is TRYING to make a bomb. That is not to mention simple curiosity! People, lay off of it! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBLAgscTAsUV8MXTRTAQGmNQP/TSvaeLFIUOTvY1oXX0TOeHnrU9E9AfWL XXT7sOnH4FLFoRjWNerBNPvNRdVDMmR/Z4KrrcNGMmcobH2+5odaQvEA9XLjUmIn reXErSm2mdHMrGm7D2780MWpNIom07Aoaigg97Qv3C37aZIA7YUS4uDa9qaH9Oln fDMoLR+17GE= =wKSB —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Could someone please mail this document and any other "banned" (notice the quotes) files to me? I collect info that may be of use after the fall of the West
If you are so interested in finding it why don’t you look for it yourself. I deleted the majority of that article, but the poster said things like putting security on some "sensitive" files… I will never understand why so many people feel a need to control not what people do (like crime) but what people THINK… We live in a world of good intentioned (and not
I am not trying to tell you what to think, Paul. I am not trying to tell others what to think either, Paul. You are doing a pretty good job of that yourself. Here is a perfect example of censorship coming from Mr. one and only, himself. Additionally, if you can never understand why people feel a need to control, why are you even bothering with a group like alt.activism? You are projecting, Paul. so good intentioned) thought police. LET ME THINK AND SAY WHAT I WANT EVEN IF IT IS WRONG (which it never is … . I will let you do the same. There are LOTS of reasons someone might want the above info. One that those fun censors would love: If you know HOW to make a bomb and HOW to plant it, you will be able to recognize when someone is TRYING to make a bomb. That is not to mention simple curiosity! People, lay off of it!
This is a good answer! I can agree with your point in trying to piss the censors off by merely having the information and knowledge for knowledge sake is a good answer as well. Curiousity is in many respects a good answer as well but how curious are you? Would you actually build a bomb to see if it would work? Many bombs have been built on this premise and I kind of doubt the curiousity factor for this reason. I find it interesting that you give me shit for wanting to discuss this stuff and then in turn you say you want bomb info because you are curious??…. I am curious to and that is why I am trying to find some good reasons for having this kind of information on the net. Actually, I am interested in all the reasons everyone can come up with but so far there has been little in the way of constructive debate. I personally don’t want this kind of info available on the internet and I know that you disagree, Paul. Most would side with you and few side with me but that does not mean that the discussion is futile. Perhaps you would agree. If you disagree, then why are you even following the thread? There are a couple of thousand news groups out there, Paul. Do you know how many threads that would involve? Why did you pick this one in particular? Could it be that you are interested or are you just curious? BTW….My university will not give me an account with my own name on it so that’s why my postings only have a number in front of it. I want my own identity and they refuse to give it to me until next semester. I think this is a heavy handed form of control and I would like to get some advice on dealing with these computer pricks. Does anyone have any suggestion or tactics I may apply to solve this identity crisis I am having. Are there any UNIX experts out there that could tell me how to circumvent the bureaucracy. If you think this is a real burn wait until I tell you about Mickey, the on-campus thought police. SINCERELY……Robert G. White Carleton University Ottawa, Ontario. Canada. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBLAgscTAsUV8MXTRTAQGmNQP/TSvaeLFIUOTvY1oXX0TOeHnrU9E9AfWL XXT7sOnH4FLFoRjWNerBNPvNRdVDMmR/Z4KrrcNGMmcobH2+5odaQvEA9XLjUmIn reXErSm2mdHMrGm7D2780MWpNIom07Aoaigg97Qv3C37aZIA7YUS4uDa9qaH9Oln fDMoLR+17GE= =wKSB —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -First off, anyone who wants to make a bomb doesn’t need to log on to a computer to find out how. I know several techniques of making them myself. Problem with that is, most ways to make highly dangerous explosives put the maker in a high amount of danger. Yet, I have made a few. Anyway, that’s what the United States is supposed to be about, freedom. Although I feel it falls far short from what freedom really is, at least you can see that a few people are trying. Freedom of speech includes the right to print books and materials that tell people how to contruct bombs, drugs, or if they wanted to include it, how to assassinate your favorite politician. I am glad for this. Personally, I would like to knock off a few people, but that’s just an opinion. Now, if you are complaining about this stuff because your "mother" country normally protects you from such knowledge (btw, try the library, most of the time you find the info there), maybe you should contact the server through which you net and tell them that such access should be denied from you. Final thing, where exactly is it that you can get the bomb information over net. I would be interested in seeing any new ideas. Thanks. One man’s ceiling is another Michael S. Daines
Michael, try ftp.eff.org I think the path is pub/cud/fbi Nothing terribly sophisticated there, but surely explosive. B O O M !!!!!!!
Response:
I have always admired the people that came out of the University of Chicago and as everyone knows, many great people have come from there. It’s too bad you are not one of them. I agree with the freedom of speech you talk of but I just can’t seem to grasp why you are so interested in knocking people off. I will not give out the location of the document and I wish everyone would stop asking for it. Why don’t you go to your library and try and find it there.
Nice attempt at an insult. I know I will never be a great person, because society’s standards will hold me back. I don’t want to be a great man for this world anyway. I am not interested in knocking people off. If I was, I would be smart enough not to tell everyone on the net, it would be something I would plan out and do on my own time. Making the statement I did was just yet another way of expressing my disappoinment with the leadership of the world today. I know a lot of people that are that way. Hell, that was why Clinton was (supposedly) elected (sorry, but I live in the US, so I will use US EG’s). Unfortunately, it seems as if he has backstabbed us and thus he is gaining disapproval. Sorry, tangent. Anyway, like I said, I already know how to make bombs. I don’t plan to use the knowledge to kill anyone, it is just of interest to me… there is a reason why I took Chemistry (and enjoyed it). This is a good idea and I am surprised that you came out with it. I am not really worried about the document itself, I am worried about what it represents in terms of our social milieu. If I could get people to talk of the consequences of having this sort of thing on the net, I would be happy. I am not suggesting that my opinions are good or bad, I am merely trying to talk about something that concerns me and a number of other people throughout the world. Bombs and terrorism are becoming a fact of life and if we don’t try to solve problems with other measures we will be in deep shit a number of years from now…
Yet another insult, man you are just full of them. What do you think this kind of information represents? A) The sorry state that it has declined to, B) The fact that freedom of information is existant, and that is good, or C) Fill in your own blank. I doubt you are pushing for B, if so this little conversation would have never started. To quote some anonymous person, "If you outlaw information, the only people with information are outlaws!" The idea is, you have to have freee access to everything, or else someone has to control what information you have. When you have someone controling what you know, you are no longer able to think for yourself. You are thus left a mindless worker doing the jobs that the people in power don’t want to do. This sounds extreme, but when you put a minority in power, the power goes to the minority’s head. Eventually one of two situations evolve. One being the above, and the other is extremist revolt. Neither is good. The thing is, do you actually think that restricting this kind of information will stop terrorists? It isn’t like people are messing around one day, come across a book that say how to make a bomb, and suddenly think to themselves- "you know, maybe I will blow up a car or something." The though comes first. If you want to stop terrorism by stopping the information, you going to have to stop teaching chemistry in high schools. Don’t think that will lead to anything productive. The only other possibility would be to license the information. That would be difficult, would add even more beuraucracy, and really wouldn’t help in the long run. about twenty don’t. Can anyone think of a reason why only Americans are responding? Why is it that people from Europe or Oz have not responded? Perhaps they don’t subscribe to alt.activism because it’s an Americanized group. I have seen only American users in the group and I am starting to wonder if people from other countries read it? If you are non-American please give us some input on this thread.
This is a tough one. I think it is because us damn americans get these ideas put in our heads after studying the constitution (US) and we feel we have to defend these crazy new ideas. It does seem odd. I mean, these ideas can’t be limited to just this country. I know my mindset is a product of my childhood and my environment, but it seems that a simliar way of thinking could easily evolve in any other country. Or hey, may limiting what people can think actually does work… Actually, turning the tables, I guess what I think had been limited… It is just perspective I guess… Thank you for being there to widen mine, I’m always looking to do so. I will not give out the location of the document because I don’t believe that I should. It’s widely available though.
Oh, well, didn’t need it anyway. Besides, most of the time the ways which these books tell you to make bombs and such are not safe for yourself. Like I said, I just find it interesting. Michael S. Daines It is hard not to supress my anarcho-atheistic beliefs…
Response:
]Actually, I am interested in all the reasons everyone can ]come up with but so far there has been little in the way of ]constructive debate. You already agreed that ‘knowledge for the sake of knowledge’ was a good answer. I can’t speak for others, but for me–that is the only reason necessary. ]I personally don’t want this kind of info ]available on the internet and I know that you disagree, Paul. Most ]would side with you and few side with me but that does not mean that ]the discussion is futile. The discussion seems futile. Why would you want to censor the net? The excuse that terrorists might build a bomb is the same justification that could be used for banning ANYTHING. The slippery slope effect. From the ‘Loompanics Unlimited’ booksellers catalog: "Loompanics Unlimited cannot be held responsible for any shipment of books seized by any government body. This applies in particular to Canada, where many books are banned, and to prisoners, whose keepers often confiscate books." It’s shameful that people are prisoners in their own country. ]BTW….My university will not give me an account with my own name on ]it so that’s why my postings only have a number in front of it. I want ]my own identity and they refuse to give it to me until next semester. ]I think this is a heavy handed form of control and I would like to get ]some advice on dealing with these computer pricks. Does anyone have ]any suggestion or tactics I may apply to solve this identity crisis I ]am having. Are there any UNIX experts out there that could tell me how ]to circumvent the bureaucracy. If you think this is a real burn wait ]until I tell you about Mickey, the on-campus thought police. Depending on your newsreader, you may be able to modify your header. Some newsreaders allow you to stick anything you want into the header by either making a default header that’s used all the time, or by typing in a new From line at the very top of your posts, right under the Subject line without any blank lines. Such as: ~Newsgroups: alt.activism ~ ~In article blah blah……. Some newsreaders won’t let you do this. See the Man page for your newsreader, and/or give it a try. ] SINCERELY……Robert G. White Carleton University ] Ottawa, Ontario. ] Canada. —
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