Question:
writes: i thought you left promises promises get real or get
I understand your frustration. I feel it too
Response:
Ari, You have just betrayed a CONFIDENCE to intentionally HARM another PERSON. Foot: This is something she swore she would never divulge and it flowed off her lips like honey, feeding Austin something she knows nothing about.
Though I agree that this was totally uncalled for- She, like you, is just making assumptions about another individual. Don’t like it when the tables are turned. Do you ?! Once again- We are big boys and girls. We can handle ourselves. This ng did just fine before you got here and it will continue long after you are gone.
Response:
Thank you Austin –
You are welcome, I think. In fact I think foot has some problems which I really pray he deals with. I used to be very angry with him, but I see that he is hurting. His wife left him for his father and he told me about this pain.
I can’t even believe that you wrote this. Here I am trying to get Foot to lay off you and then you start airing his business all over the net. I will seriously consider defending you in the future. You also need to understand that I was not in fact defending you but merely telling foot that it is not his place to constantly revictimize you if in fact you were ever victimized. I think that he expected me to be something that I am not. I do not know what he expected of me. But for whatever reason he has DISPLACED rage at me about what happened with him and his wife. And he has been very cruel to me.
You have written some pretty cruel and mean things yourself. If I am not mistaken, I seem to recall a post about why nobody was supporting you. In which you basically demanded that someone listen and respond to you. You are not off the hook sweetie! I am to go to out of court settlements next week, after which I will probably received compensation for my pain. The abuse of my teacher left deep wounds – as Judith Lasater, PhD states "abuse by your spiritual teacher is metaphorically incest" – and indeed the wounds are about as deep.
I’m glad that you are diong something about it, White Lotus! Good for you! So, if foot is right, and I am a "phoney" – my pain is not real – then I have fooled two of the best forensic psychologists in the world. I have fooled three other psychologists who treated me for the trauma and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have then "fooled" the entire legal system, fooled my lawyer who took my case on contingency fee and fooled the Insurance company out of much money!!
It has been done before, not that I am saying you are a "phoney". What I am saying is that I am not one to judge whether or not you are a "phoney". It will come out in the long run if you are. And if you aren’t then I think you deserve just as much support as the rest of us. I dont think so! I think the reason I am winning is that I have a legitimate claim, a strong case. If Foot thinks he is the only one who knows the truth about me, then he is perceiving things that just do not exists.
You are the only one who knows you. You know if you are lying. You know if you are being honest. You know how each and every word said effects you. No one else, no matter what they claim, can do that. Unfortunately, I think Foot may have seen a few things in you that he doesn’t like. He is entitled to not liking you. However, I don’t feel that it is his position to tell others how to feel about you. I feel that we deserve some credit for being adults. I, at least, can decide for myself whether or not I like you by what I read. I do not need someone telling me how to feel about your posts. I suggest rather, that he is displacing much rage upon me, and perpetrating this garbage on me because he has not yet cleared his heart of his issues with his wife.
Once again, none of your or my business unless -he- cares to share his life with us. My opinion for the day.
And that’s mine. Like it or not!
Response:
sorry, I disagree. I think that if you are being harassed and perpetrated against that it IS your business if someone addresses their inner issues or if they continue to perpetrate harassment against you. In my opinion, foot, without going into detail about his marital difficulties – should deal with his own trauma rather than projecting rage onto me. Now I am putting the word White Lotus into my killfile. This bulletin board is supposed to be about support and healing, not about me. True Lotus Support Network and Dharma Center World Wide Support Network for Betrayal of Trust Survivors http://www.seanet.com/~truelotus <—–New and Improved!!(5.8) New!Generic Response to Flames: http://www.seanet.com/~truelotus/flame.html Check Out Our Recent Publication Housed At: http://www.glue.umd.edu/~youngmd/writings/index.html (4.30)
Response:
Hi. Spoilered – This has become a flame thread. Or is one already. I would like to point out that I am not White Lotus. I am Paul Chen. My email addresses include: I am real. Perhaps Ari and I share buzzwords because I have sent her copies of what I have posted to her for her input? I have also written to her because I have told her that what she writes will only damage her and that it is best she stay off the net for a while… You can read more in another post: Regarding Foot. Paul Chen aka Raul Cervantes except to view news with.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ari, You have just betrayed a CONFIDENCE to intentionally HARM another PERSON. I imagine the very few people who spoke out to support you have just gotten to see what I saw so much of when I searched dejanews on your nicks and various email addresses. I have never seen any survivor stoop as low as you have consistently throughout your time in this newsgroup. Thank you Austin – In fact I think foot has some problems which I really pray he deals with. I used to be very angry with him, but I see that he is hurting. His wife left him for his father and he told me about this pain. I was pretty sure that this was the case when W.L. first showed up. I did not bother to check Deja Vu, but kinda knew what would be there, I am glad you did. I agree with your feelings. I was taking a wait and see attitude, but I have waited and now I see. My sympathies to Foote, he is been through a lot.
Foote: Only because I truly cared about the damage that was being done to my chosen NG home on the internet. If you don’t care, you can’t be hurt. I see a cancer eating up everything in its sight without regard for anyone or anything. It just says what sounds good in the moment but has no conception of what IT is doing and the sickness that it is causing in others. If she does not take my proposal to save all of the NG’s from this incessant conflict, I am going to drop responding to her posts and start relating with the sensitive and vulnerable people in this group. It is the only way that I can see to keep that beautiful sensitivity and vulnerability alive. They need to be nurtured and kept alive because those qualities are at the root of every spiritual journey to our true selves. All spiritual masters has sought to find those that were open to healing through their trusting the process they were involved in and not letting those who would harm them take over their consciousness. I am sensitive and vulnerable and do not want to remain as I appear, hard and cold, in this fight against Ari, who appears to value and cherish no one nor listen to the advice of anyone. She doesn’t seem to have a mentor or anyone who she will listen to about her neurotic behavior against every single NG she has posted on. Trust me, this sickness will not be allowed to destroy these newsgroups as I also, as she claims to do, cherish each person here and the heavy load that you bear, while walking out into the light of day and recovery. You’ve got a friend. Crisis: Maybe we all can stop concentrating on Ari or who ever she is this week and her explosions and manipulations and go back to the normal crazy peace and quite of this newsgroup. Maybe if we just ignore her she will find another newsgroup to explode. Maybe we could send her over to sci.psychology.theory.
Foote: I’m afraid that you cannot redirect an out of control freight train Crisis. However, your idea is a wonderful one. There is a big difference between the *normal* functioning of this group and the functioning when really *unreal* elements are interjected into the group claiming to be the ONLY reality that has any value or right to be acknowledged. I will do what I can to help in your efforts to not give energy to this humgry rampant spirit or whatever it is. Crisis: I am sorry also, Ruby that she has hurt you, you are consistently supportive to everyone on this newsgroup and you don’t deserve that sort of treatment.
Foote: Ruby is trying very hard indeed to include Ari and apologizes each time she says something that rings true about Ari to Ari. She is trying desperately to do the *right* thing and this also shows me what this group is really about. Being the best we can be under the most difficult of circumstances. There is much to look forward to that is good and decent as the people of this group are weened away from the sour mild of the white lotus. Take care, Crisis
Foot: I ask for your forgiveness if you find my adding to your post offensive. I am pretty vulnerable when it comes to jumping on the post of anyone who sees, feels, and says something that rings true to me about the danger of letting Ari have her free reign here just because she claims to have suffered abuse. Well, I’ve had my share also and have learned to live with it and even have compassion on the Perps who abused me, whether purposely or unintentionally (I doubt I was very much on their mind at all). Always to look at the silver lining within each cloud shows me that I have found some pretty damn nice folks and some pretty intelligent people whom I would have not found were it not for Ari. I had been involved in a combat to become *real* on my newsgroup and had only two holdouts left that I couldn’t get to take me seriously and Ari’s abrupt arrival on our NG forced us all to come together and support each other so we came to appreciate our differences and gained respect for one another. Sometimes a common enemy does us a favor by giving us no choice if we wish to survive. Even so, no one ever wanted to see Ari get hurt and I promised I’d be there when she fell off her soapbox if she ever did. I am here still. Enough about Ari. Let’s get down to the real business of living better lives or at least lives that are more to our liking. We cannot be stopped in this effort because it is why we all came here. I never know why I go places but if there is something worthwhile there, I will find it and learn from it and nuture it. With Love and Affection Footsie
Response:
Ari, You have just betrayed a CONFIDENCE to intentionally HARM another PERSON.
Foot: This is something she swore she would never divulge and it flowed off her lips like honey, feeding Austin something she knows nothing about. Ruby: I imagine the very few people who spoke out to support you have just gotten to see what I saw so much of when I searched dejanews on your nicks and various email addresses.
Foot: That’s like seeing only the Prosecutor and believing their picture and then when the defense comes up, well, the mind is certainly blown away by the *rest of the story*. It has been non ending for 2 years. Ruby: I have never seen any survivor stoop as low as you have consistently throughout your time in this newsgroup.
Foot: Eventually, everyone will see. She does not know how to stop when she is ahead. Ruby: You play on diversity and use it to create division. You have manipulated my words and the words of others in this ng You have violated a confidence simply TO HARM
Foot: There is no end to it, it seems. And it does hurt, as it is easy to see how she is going to do this with other NG’s also. It’s like a cancer, it knows no bounds and asks others to play by rules that it will not abide by. Drove me to some very sobering realizations I would have rather never had. Ruby: There are not words to describe the trail of hurt and harm that lays in your wake.
Foot: And the strength that she feels is from the decent people who’s words she has twisted in order to *play* with them. People seem to be as dolls to her. You are venomous. Ruby
Foot: And its hard to read her stuff too. Thank you Austin – In fact I think foot has some problems which I really pray he deals with.
Foot: Strange I feel none the better for your prayers. Ari: I used to be very angry with him, but I see that he is hurting. Foot: It is a positive sufferring that I take on by relating with you Ari. I feel that I must be there when people find out what you’re really up to with the NG’s. They must be shown that others have survived the dark night of the Ari that infects their minds and souls. Ari: His wife left him for his father and he told me about this pain.
Foot: Yes, I did tell you of that and you shared with me that your teacher was not interested in you sexually. But you know the truth to be different. I told you that I divorced my wife against her wishes and that now we are best friends and that my Father, my ex, and myself are best friends now. She did not leave me, my ego got in the way and I couldn’t hang when my Father (82) years and bearing such scares to his sexual ego that he felt he had to talk my ex into *playing* with him. She was a sensual educator and didn’t realize that when she *played* with my Father in order to deal with a life long problem he had suffered from, that it was like taking all of my dignity as a man and spitting on it. We all still very much love each other even though the logistics of our bodies has changed. You know that I visit my ex almost monthly but your intention here was not to tell the truth that you know, but to leave out the bulk of the story. Ari: I think that he expected me to be something that I am not.
Foot: No Ari, you know that all I ever wanted from you was to be a decent human being and stop bashing the members of my group based on your own perceptions of what our NG *should* be, just as you do here in the abuse NG’s. If they don’t believe you and every word you say you bash them and tell them they are not worthy of the name Abuse Newsgroup because they know nothing of suffering, I mean the REAL suffering that only YOU’VE gone through. And all of that on the Internet which you often say is not EVEN hardly real compared to your *real* life. Ari: I do not know what he expected of me.
Foot: You once said that you had an experience of Grace. I believed you and alerted the group that a new Ari was coming out now. You never gave that Grace it’s due because of legal considerations. Anyone who would deny *grace* and choose to stay with legal games for money, doesn’t have the heart it takes to relate in the NG’s with ordinary everyday honest people without abusing them by not getting real with them because of legal reasons. Perhaps after you *get* a settlement, you will be able to drop all of this bullshit and make some friendships that are more than using people for your legal image as an abuse victim. Ari: But for whatever reason he has DISPLACED rage at me about what happened with him and his wife.
Foot: And how about the rest of the hundreds of people who have been hurt by your twisting of their names and ideas into your own negative views? Do each of them bare all the responsibility for who they mistakenly perceive you to be. Ari: And he has been very cruel to me. Foot: You spit on spirituality. Everyday for 2 years you spit on the decent people who are looking together for the answers that will make life more meaningful to them. These are serious and determined people who self inspect continuously and your putting you abuse trips on them has been devestating to many of the weaker people. When they complained to you they were told by the great helper of abuse victims, "I am not responsible for what you are experiencing, if you say I am abusing you it is all in your own mind." Ari: I am to go to out of court settlements next week, after which I will probably received compensation for my pain. The abuse of my teacher left deep wounds – as Judith Lasater, PhD states "abuse by your spiritual teacher is metaphorically incest" – and indeed the wounds are about as deep.
Foot: So, if foot is right, and I am a "phoney" – my pain is not real – then I have fooled two of the best forensic psychologists in the world. I have fooled three other psychologists who treated me for the trauma and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have then "fooled" the entire legal system, fooled my lawyer who took my case on contingency fee and fooled the Insurance company out of much money!! I dont think so!
Foot: Given this litigeous society and the fact that it is easier many times to settle out of court, it is not so hard to fool all those people. And besides, your pain and suffering was never in question, you methods of dealing with people who questioned your methods has always been in question on the NG’s. You said you had a constitutional right to stay there and post and then when people tell you what they are feeling and thinking, you say that they are abusing you. The door swings both ways Ari, it swings two ways. If you have no responsibility for your actions towards others, how is it that someone else is responsible for the pain you say you have sufferred. Ari: I think the reason I am winning is that I have a legitimate claim, a strong case. If Foot thinks he is the only one who knows the truth about me, then he is perceiving things that just do not exists.
Foot: As stated, many big companies pay off lawsuits just to get rid of pests. Your money will one day run out and you will have to really go for the healing and you’ll have to go back to your *grace* experience and start all over again. I hope that you are not 80 when that day comes. You will have waisted much time and energy. Ari: I suggest rather, that he is displacing much rage upon me, and perpetrating this garbage on me because he has not yet cleared his heart of his issues with his wife.
Foot: I have no rage towards my wife, my father, nor you Ari. Ari: My opinion for the day.
Foot: Your opinions always say more about you than anyone else Ari. People are not so easily fooled as you may think. These are not paid professionals here, these are real people and they will know the truth for themselves. And the truth is that you refuse to form real and meaningful relationships with anyone, unless they worship at your feet. Ari: White Lotus
Foot: And I question that.
Response:
Ari, You have just betrayed a CONFIDENCE to intentionally HARM another PERSON. I imagine the very few people who spoke out to support you have just gotten to see what I saw so much of when I searched dejanews on your nicks and various email addresses. I have never seen any survivor stoop as low as you have consistently throughout your time in this newsgroup.
Thank you Austin – In fact I think foot has some problems which I really pray he deals with. I used to be very angry with him, but I see that he is hurting. His wife left him for his father and he told me about this pain.
I was pretty sure that this was the case when W.L. first showed up. I did not bother to check Deja Vu, but kinda knew what would be there, I am glad you did. I agree with your feelings. I was taking a wait and see attitude, but I have waited and now I see. My sympathies to Foote, he is been through a lot. Maybe we all can stop concentrating on Ari or who ever she is this week and her explosions and manipulations and go back to the normal crazy peace and quite of this newsgroup. Maybe if we just ignore her she will find another newsgroup to explode. Maybe we could send her over to sci.psychology.theory. I am sorry also, Ruby that she has hurt you, you are consistently supportive to everyoneon this newsgroup and you don’t deserve that sort of treatment. Take care, Crisis
Response:
writes:
i thought you left promises promises get real or get
Response:
The only eye opener has been the fact that I have had to call the police to get people to stop harassing me. The only eye opener has been that Kathy has used the entire newsgroup to defame me for nothing more than telling her to stop using the newsgroup for her own agenda. Why dont we wait until there is even a police report filed before we declare anyone guilty, no? Filing false police reports is a FELONY.
Response:
Thank you Austin – In fact I think foot has some problems which I really pray he deals with. I used to be very angry with him, but I see that he is hurting. His wife left him for his father and he told me about this pain. I think that he expected me to be something that I am not. I do not know what he expected of me. But for whatever reason he has DISPLACED rage at me about what happened with him and his wife. And he has been very cruel to me. I am to go to out of court settlements next week, after which I will probably received compensation for my pain. The abuse of my teacher left deep wounds – as Judith Lasater, PhD states "abuse by your spiritual teacher is metaphorically incest" – and indeed the wounds are about as deep. So, if foot is right, and I am a "phoney" – my pain is not real – then I have fooled two of the best forensic psychologists in the world. I have fooled three other psychologists who treated me for the trauma and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have then "fooled" the entire legal system, fooled my lawyer who took my case on contingency fee and fooled the Insurance company out of much money!! I dont think so! I think the reason I am winning is that I have a legitimate claim, a strong case. If Foot thinks he is the only one who knows the truth about me, then he is perceiving things that just do not exists. I suggest rather, that he is displacing much rage upon me, and perpetrating this garbage on me because he has not yet cleared his heart of his issues with his wife. My opinion for the day. White Lotus http://www.seanet.com/~truelotus Generic Response to flames: http://www.seanet.com/~truelotus/flame.html
Response:
Hello. I’ve read enough to consider myself able to write on this topic. Note my previous post with same subject. I don’t really know everyone. But I do like to think this news- group is for support of people. So what if you don’t like Lotus? Foot: No one is saying that they don’t like Lotus. I am saying that I don’t trust Lotus.
I have been watching and reading these posts about Lotus for some time now and have decided that you, Foot are just trying to make life difficult for Lotus. If you don’t trust her, that is fine but it is not your job to put her down and "warn the group" about her. I Think we all have a mind of our own. So, back off!!!! Raul: Ignore White Lotus if you don’t like the individual. Either the person will leave upon finding self ignored, OR Lotus’ story is true, and once some peace and calm settles in, the person will be able to finally focus on good work rather than constant defensiveness.
My point exactly!! If you would back off and stop revictimizing this individual, things would be much easier for us all. We are all survivors here and most of us can tell is someone is "faking it". Please stop second guessing our intelligence by telling us all about White Lotus. We can and will find out for ourselves. We have not gotten a chance to even get to know White Lotus because she has been so busy trying to defend herself from you. Give her a break and give us more credit please. Foot: This is the goal eventually. First she has to learn that if she takes the names of people and uses them to serve her ends of gaining followers, they are not going to allow this. That can be done in E-Mail all she wants but when I read a group and see my name calling me a RAPIST, I’m damn well not going to leave it go unanswered to the best of my ability.
Foot, why are you getting so defensive about being called a rapist. Are you one? If you are not – why does it bother you so much what others think of you? In my opinion, you have made an ass out of yourself by trying to tell everyone you aren’t an ass. Raul: Certainly there must be some truth behind Lotus’ past of abuse. Foot: Why? Because saying so this many times makes it so. I don’t doubt that she was abused in some fashion in her life and I feel for this tragedy yet the abuse she is talking about on the net has been concocted out of her own judgements towards those that disagree with her methods of using people who disagree with her to show how abusive they are and how good she is.
And just who the hell do you think you are telling an individual judge and jury nor do I wish for you to be. I have watched you cut this girl down, doubt her every word, twist her words around and re- victimize her in the strongest sense of the word. You nor I have been designated to decide whether or not this woman has been abused. I think we are all intelligent enough to decide for ourselves. Raul: Flaming and continuing to respond to Lotus’ posts in a negative manner will merely continue perpetuate the siege mentality currently adopted. Have you wondered if what you have done could in effect have pushed a person over the edge of sanity? Foot: Do you not see that I am over the edge my friend. How do you think I got here, all by my self, hell no, I had help from the Goddess of the Psychobizzare (as she has called herself).
Well, let the "Goddess of the Psychobizzare" take you back and put you back under the rock you crawled out from. Sorry, I’m all out of support for you right now. Raul: How would some of you feel if you came here looking for support and got flamed? Foot: When I go looking for support I go humbly and sincerely extending my hurting hand and am not so arrogant as to think that anyone owes me diddly and am greatful beyond words when I am given an accepting word. I create support by listening to those that show me what I need to see, whether I can follow it or not. I don’t bash people who don’t support me, I’m too busy enjoying the support of those that care to support me, who see some truth in thoughts and ideas.
We are not robots!!! We all react differently to pain and suffering. We all heal in our own way. Just because that is not the way you would do it, doesn’t necessarily mean that we all must do it your way. (Though it would be *nice* to try to be supportive if you would like support). But that does not mean that it is necessary to be supportive. Some people are not far enough along in their healing to be able to support others. That does not mean they do not need some support though. Raul: If you were on the edge already, how much more would have made you become crazy? Foot: If a cat had an ass he would be able to shit. No one here is crazy Raul, we may talk crazy at time but no one here IS crazy. So can the IF bullshit. There are no IF’s, AND’S, or BUT’s about it.
It seems to me that you have thrown out a lot of IF’s and AND’s throughout this thread. Opps! I guess that means we should not count anything else you say as important because you made a mistake. Raul: Hell, I can really even understand the accusations of ‘Where is the work and the support?’ Would one of you, ignored by a good number in this newsgroup, constantly flamed and reflamed by a dedicated few… In desperate need of support, even feel able to offer support to anyone else?
Agreed, Raul! Foot: I don’t know where you’re coming from but you seem to be Ari in another name. Where are you digging all of this up from? And stop questioning these people about what they would do if they were you or if they were in Ari’s situation.
I do not see him questioning "these people". I think he is just trying to give some direction on common decency and encouragement.. Do you really think they are here to worry about poor little abused Ari. Hell no, they are here to deal with their own problems and no you want to make Ari their problem too. Such nerve. Why don’t you read their posts and respond to some of them while you’re at it Raul. Get down off Ari’s soapbox and find out who the people who are extending support to one another here are feeling.
I think that Raul has a point here. You know "do unto others as you would have done unto you". Come on, Foot wake up. I think that many on this group got annoyed at all the posts that Lotus wrote when she first entered the group. I know that I got a little sick and tired of hearing about the problem but not seeing Lotus do anything to help solve the problem. However, that does not mean that I don’t support her. It simply means that I do not want to try to help someone who has no interest in helping themselves. Raul: I am not saying True Lotus is THE TRUTH, or THE ONLY SALVATION. But I do ask some of you to set yourselves in Lotus’ shoes for a while. Foot: Why for God’s sake, so she can accuse them of *questioning her manipulative methods*? Say one word of honest feeling to that one and you get kicked in the teeth with a tirade of hateful name calling just as she has done for the past two years. No Raul, she get’s off it or she doesn’t get what she seeks.
Your opinion. They have what she says she wants here and if she doesn’t see that this group can hold its collective (multiple) head up mighty high knowing in their hearts that they were here for her if she truly wanted to relate with them. RELATE WITH THEM is the key Raul, not put themselves in her shoes. They’ve already walked further than she has in those shoes and don’t need to play your psychological *games* to understand where she is coming from.
That is quite a huge assumption, Foot. Do you know for a fact that all of us have walked in her shoes? They’ve been there and they’ve come from that place to here and they know it isn’t easy but they also know that Ari is responsible for her own journey and for either her or you to try to put the blame and responsibility or even the JOB of helping support her on their backs is just to stupid and inane for words.
Yes, Ari/Lotus is responsible for her own healing. However, I think I expect that I will receive support along the way. You know – give a little to get a little? No – it is not our JOB to support her, nor is it your JOB to judge her. Raul: And realize that the best that can be done is to leave Lotus alone and let us see who Lotus really is, without all this hubbaloo of what so far is a matter of PERSONAL OPINIONS lambasted for all to see.
YEAH!!!! Couldn’t have said it better myself. Foot: NO! No! No! No! I won’t let her call me a RAPIST to get sympathy and manipulate these people using my name. Sorry Charlie, I’m hurting from this abuse as much as she is and I’ll not let my heart be trampled on by anyone, especially someone whom I believe to be doing this shit intentionally for purposes other than her hearts healing.
There you go again second guessing another human being. If she has hurt you, I am truely sorry. But please remember that you are walking on her as much as she is you. Time to get off her, don’t you think? Raul: I recommend a small modicum of humility. Foot: And I think that you are too fucking arrogant to understand humility.
Ouch! Name calling again. Raul: Endure what you perceive to be attacks on you, knowing that eventually it will all be over, and maybe, just maybe, you helped leave someone alone enough so they can heal.
Yup! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Foot: That’s not the way it works Raul. Sorry.
… read more »
Response:
Hello. I’ve read enough to consider myself able to write on this topic. Note my previous post with same subject. I don’t really know everyone. But I do like to think this news- group is for support of people. So what if you don’t like Lotus?
Foot: No one is saying that they don’t like Lotus. I am saying that I don’t trust Lotus. Raul: Ignore White Lotus if you don’t like the individual. Either the person will leave upon finding self ignored, OR Lotus’ story is true, and once some peace and calm settles in, the person will be able to finally focus on good work rather than constant defensiveness.
Foot: This is the goal eventually. First she has to learn that if she takes the names of people and uses them to serve her ends of gaining followers, they are not going to allow this. That can be done in E-Mail all she wants but when I read a group and see my name calling me a RAPIST, I’m damn well not going to leave it go unanswered to the best of my ability. Raul: Certainly there must be some truth behind Lotus’ past of abuse.
Foot: Why? Because saying so this many times makes it so. I don’t doubt that she was abused in some fashion in her life and I feel for this tragedy yet the abuse she is talking about on the net has been concocted out of her own judgements towards those that disagree with her methods of using people who disagree with her to show how abusive they are and how good she is. Raul: Flaming and continuing to respond to Lotus’ posts in a negative manner will merely continue perpetuate the siege mentality currently adopted. Have you wondered if what you have done could in effect have pushed a person over the edge of sanity?
Foot: Do you not see that I am over the edge my friend. How do you think I got here, all by my self, hell no, I had help from the Goddess of the Psychobizzare (as she has called herself). Raul: How would some of you feel if you came here looking for support and got flamed?
Foot: When I go looking for support I go humbly and sincerely extending my hurting hand and am not so arrogant as to think that anyone owes me diddly and am greatful beyond words when I am given an accepting word. I create support by listening to those that show me what I need to see, whether I can follow it or not. I don’t bash people who don’t support me, I’m too busy enjoying the support of those that care to support me, who see some truth in thoughts and ideas. Raul: If you were on the edge already, how much more would have made you become crazy?
Foot: If a cat had an ass he would be able to shit. No one here is crazy Raul, we may talk crazy at time but no one here IS crazy. So can the IF bullshit. There are no IF’s, AND’S, or BUT’s about it. Raul: Hell, I can really even understand the accusations of ‘Where is the work and the support?’ Would one of you, ignored by a good number in this newsgroup, constantly flamed and reflamed by a dedicated few… In desperate need of support, even feel able to offer support to anyone else?
Foot: I don’t know where you’re coming from but you seem to be Ari in another name. Where are you digging all of this up from? And stop questioning these people about what they would do if they were you or if they were in Ari’s situation. Do you really think they are here to worry about poor little abused Ari. Hell no, they are here to deal with their own problems and no you want to make Ari their problem too. Such nerve. Why don’t you read their posts and respond to some of them while you’re at it Raul. Get down off Ari’s soapbox and find out who the people who are extending support to one another here are feeling. Raul: I am not saying True Lotus is THE TRUTH, or THE ONLY SALVATION. But I do ask some of you to set yourselves in Lotus’ shoes for a while.
Foot: Why for God’s sake, so she can accuse them of *questioning her manipulative methods*? Say one word of honest feeling to that one and you get kicked in the teeth with a tirade of hateful name calling just as she has done for the past two years. No Raul, she get’s off it or she doesn’t get what she seeks. They have what she says she wants here and if she doesn’t see that this group can hold its collective (multiple) head up mighty high knowing in their hearts that they were here for her if she truly wanted to relate with them. RELATE WITH THEM is the key Raul, not put themselves in her shoes. They’ve already walked further than she has in those shoes and don’t need to play your psychological *games* to understand where she is coming from. They’ve been there and they’ve come from that place to here and they know it isn’t easy but they also know that Ari is responsible for her own journey and for either her or you to try to put the blame and responsibility or even the JOB of helping support her on their backs is just to stupid and inane for words. Raul: And realize that the best that can be done is to leave Lotus alone and let us see who Lotus really is, without all this hubbaloo of what so far is a matter of PERSONAL OPINIONS lambasted for all to see.
Foot: NO! No! No! No! I won’t let her call me a RAPIST to get sympathy and manipulate these people using my name. Sorry Charlie, I’m hurting from this abuse as much as she is and I’ll not let my heart be trampled on by anyone, especially someone whom I believe to be doing this shit intentionally for purposes other than her hearts healing. Raul: I recommend a small modicum of humility.
Foot: And I think that you are too fucking arrogant to understand humility. Raul: Endure what you perceive to be attacks on you, knowing that eventually it will all be over, and maybe, just maybe, you helped leave someone alone enough so they can heal.
Foot: That’s not the way it works Raul. Sorry. If someone is ready for healing then they will come to it as the rest of the people come to it, step by step and they will have to look at themselves every step of the way and see what they are doing to others to cause what they are causing and give to others the blame that they deserve. There is much more to healing than making others wrong so I can be right. I tried to befriend Ari once and when I saw that all she wanted to do was to add me to her banner and go back out on the Net and display me as a *supporter* so she could kick the shit out of others who disagreed with her I called her on it and here we are. Raul: I’m not gonnna post anymore on this subject. You may flame for all you wish.
Foot: You don’t even know who you’re talking to Raul. You think that these people are just a bunch of flamers who ruthless wait for people to come along so they can beat them up. No, it’s a tough road and everyone has to travel it for themselves. Support means to let them know that they are not alone and that others understand what they are going through, it doesn’t mean that they are going to make it a piece of cake because life doesn’t work that way. It would be damn nice if we each had a magic wand we could wave over everyone and they would all be healed and whole but that isn’t the case. That’s why I am not totally happy with myself because THAT’S what I want. And I can’t have it. I’m not God and it’s not you fault Raul, nor Ari’s fault, nor anyone elses that I am not God, it’s just the way it is so I stopped trying to be that and am content just to be what I am where I am saying what I’m saying. How about you? Are you here to make things better or to make someone right? Why take any side at all then? Raul: But I ASK that you send replies by of my posts. I’m willing to be the recipient of your flames rather than bother people on this newsgroup.
Foot: So now you think my posts are bothering people here. You must be one wise son of a B. I feel kind of inspired by the feelings I’m having and I feel sort of a healing take place. You would deny me this little pleasure in life so that I don’t bother someone. I think not. Raul: How many people do you think could have been driven from here by the flames that go around?
Foot: Fuck you Raul. Stop beating up on these people and laying guilt trips on them to justify your bullshit ideas. They are your opinions and all of these, "How many" and "If this and that" and "How would you feels" are just a bunch of manipulative games you’re playing to push your point which you feel is good for everyone. So I think this is good for everyone. Who’s to say that one of us is right and the other wrong. Perhpas both can co-exist peacefully. I’m sure you enjoyed foaming at the mouth as much as I have so what is lost by my doing so publicly as I did. I think, of course, that my post was less aimed at making these fine people feel like pieces of shit than yours, so there. Raul: Imagine someone who is vulnerable, who comes here, and sees all this happening!
Foot: And now we’re to IMAGINE some God awful scene that brings the Devil himself to mind and blame it on ourselves. You’re becoming a bit too much Mr. Raul: This controversy has seen enough waste of space already.
Foot: Evidently not enough for you. Raul: I for one hope this IS the end. Foot: And that you have waved your magic wand over everything and made it better like Mama’s kiss used to do. Well, hope springs eternal they say but the road back is a little less smooth that your one ridiculous post. You are too full of yourself Mr. Raul. I don’t want to see anyone driven over the edge. Think about it. Could you live with it?
Raul: Sincerely, Paul Chen
Foot: With Love and Affection Foot
Response:
Hello. I’ve read enough to consider myself able to write on this topic. Note my previous post with same subject. I don’t really know everyone. But I do like to think this news- group is for support of people. So what if you don’t like Lotus? Ignore White Lotus if you don’t like the individual. Either the person will leave upon finding self ignored, OR Lotus’ story is true, and once some peace and calm settles in, the person will be able to finally focus on good work rather than constant defensiveness. Certainly there must be some truth behind Lotus’ past of abuse. Flaming and continuing to respond to Lotus’ posts in a negative manner will merely continue perpetuate the siege mentality currently adopted. Have you wondered if what you have done could in effect have pushed a person over the edge of sanity? How would some of you feel if you came here looking for support and got flamed? If you were on the edge already, how much more would have made you become crazy? Hell, I can really even understand the accusations of ‘Where is the work and the support?’ Would one of you, ignored by a good number in this newsgroup, constantly flamed and reflamed by a dedicated few… In desperate need of support, even feel able to offer support to anyone else? I am not saying True Lotus is THE TRUTH, or THE ONLY SALVATION. But I do ask some of you to set yourselves in Lotus’ shoes for a while. And realize that the best that can be done is to leave Lotus alone and let us see who Lotus really is, without all this hubbaloo of what so far is a matter of PERSONAL OPINIONS lambasted for all to see. I recommend a small modicum of humility. Endure what you perceive to be attacks on you, knowing that eventually it will all be over, and maybe, just maybe, you helped leave someone alone enough so they can heal. I’m not gonnna post anymore on this subject. You may flame for all you wish. But I ASK that you send replies by of my posts. I’m willing to be the recipient of your flames rather than bother people on this newsgroup. How many people do you think could have been driven from here by the flames that go around? Imagine someone who is vulnerable, who comes here, and sees all this happening! This controversy has seen enough waste of space already. I for one hope this IS the end. I don’t want to see anyone driven over the edge. Think about it. Could you live with it? Sincerely, Paul Chen
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