Question:
In article <387CF470.FF423…@bellsouth.net>, walt <sart…@bellsouth.net> wrote: > ….(clipped a bit)…. > That is why I suggested somewhere earlier in this thread that it would be useful for > anyone who has some deep insight into the universe to try to explain this insight to > others & to ask their opinion of its validity. Anyway, if it is important, why not > share it? > Walt.
Hi. Different facets of the same jewel? Different droplets in a really large pond? It sorta comes back to the ‘all is one’ notion and as i read what i typed i realize it’s just a cop-out. But it’s the best cop-out i can come up with. So, can anyone validate thes ideas? For some reason i am reminded of Jack Nicholson in the movie Chinatown, y’know when he gets told "forget it Jake…it’s chinatown". Why i don’t know. Ack, more cop-outs. Reengage lurk mode on my mark. mark. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
In article <11106-387C89BC…@storefull-613.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, damod…@webtv.net wrote: > God did not will spinal bifuda on that child. He does not will there be > mosquitos. These are manifestations of the creation and as such are > within Gods will. > But not explicitly desired by the divinity. > This is the creation Ted. Stay here long enough you die. > My two cents. > Damo
– Need to see how nature has been tampered with and its results. There were no weeds in the original blueprint, no fleas, VD or sickness of any kind and natural for people to live for a thousand years, God mindful of things but that don’t mean they are ideal or good, but God does not interfere with choices or the soverignty of man, He will when it gets bad enough and man wipes himself out, but this is not the world it was designed to be, we fxxxed it up. Crazy Lou http://www.grizzadam.com/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Hi Ted, I do agree that many people do not accept the idea I suggested about how to validate an insight. That is especially true in the religious field. People do differ widely on the reliability of internal feelings & convictions as to what is true. If you were motivated in the past to try the technique I mentioned of testing your insights against the minds of "normal" people, then it seems that at least we have some partial agreement about technique. Walt Ted and Barb Williams wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Walt, > I did not mention in my first email that I am a scientist (computer and > digital television research and development.) Since I was a child I held to > the scientific precept of empirical evidence being required to validate a > theory, and up until I started seeing things in a new way had always said > that there "may or may not" be a God and patted myself on the back for > keeping an "open mind" on the subject. I was wrong. > However, I think to convince others of these manifestations of God’s will I > feel that I must pull from my history some concrete examples of these > manifestations, most of which are highly subjective. I do have some stellar > (literally) examples, but I’m almost afraid to bring them up given the > reaction I’ve had from the few "normal" people I’ve told. > I’ll see how I can explain these things and do another post soon. If others > are willing to cite examples, please do so. Strength and courage in > numbers. > -Ted > "walt" <sart…@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > news:387CF470.FF423628@bellsouth.net… > > Hi Rainbows, > > I do agree that many people find beliefs comforting & re-assuring even if > there is > > not much evidence that they are true. And sometimes when they can be shown > to be > > false. I wrote a somewhat related note about this under the heading > "Lies", which is > > about the well-known placebo effect. It is known that the belief or > expectation that > > some treatment will work sometimes CAUSES it to work (through some mental > mechanism) > > even when it can be established that the treatment is a completely inert > bogus pill. > > I have no problem with this effect or with its application (except for > some > > discomfort about the ethics of deliberately lying to someone in order to > help them). > > I don’t view this therapeutic form of belief to be the same thing as > knowledge > > though. Believing because it makes me feel secure or helps me to cope with > life is OK > > with me, but what I mean by "knowledge" is an insight that has been as > carefully > > tested as possible & as widely as possible, & that has passed those tests > & that has > > lots of evidence to support it. > > I also agree that it is extremely difficult or perhaps impossible to prove > anything > > beyond any shadow of a doubt. > > However, I don’t think it is therefore hopeless to try to know anything, > at least > > partially & with reservations. On the contrary I think it is very > important to try to > > know about ourselves & the rest of the universe to the extent we are able > & to also > > understand the limitations of our knowledge, since our knowledge is > imperfect. > > But "knowing" even partially does not mean accepting an insight we have > because it > > feels very right & very profound to us personally or because we have some > intense > > sense of conviction about it. "Knowing" with limitations means (to me) > testing our > > ideas as best we can, both against the minds of others & against the > outside world > > when possible. > > That is why I suggested somewhere earlier in this thread that it would be > useful for > > anyone who has some deep insight into the universe to try to explain this > insight to > > others & to ask their opinion of its validity. Anyway, if it is important, > why not > > share it? > > Walt. > > rainbows wrote: > > > walt wrote: > > > > Anyway, to summarize, I think that the feeling of some deep insight > into the > > > > universe might be possibly correct but can easily be false, just as > the feeling > > > > (I get myself) that someone is persecuting us might possibly be > correct but can > > > > easily be false. Although these two feelings are different, they are > still > > > > somewhat equivalent in that they can both easily be merely symptoms & > they are > > > > both known to be commonly occurring symptoms. > > > > I hope no one takes offence at this negative view. > > > well… i think its very interesting anyway. > > > i guess in the end it matters if the ‘belief’ you are holding helps you > > > or not… a lot of people ‘believe’ in religions and such that are > > > completely without proof of any real existence.. > > > yet masses of poeple hold to that possibly false idea purely for the > > > comfort or familiarity or protection it represents… > > > it may be that all these feelings *are* equally ‘false’ in the long > > > run.. (or equally true) but the difference in the end is what > > > *importance* of holding that totaly unprovable belief has for the people > > > who hold it.. maybe that is its only function and purpose.. > > > i have always believed that man totally created god in his own image. > > > the same could be true for spiritual beliefs. im totally open to the > > > possibility that it is all a construct of my own head. ultimately i dont > > > think it matters beacuase in the end that *is* the total of our own > > > experience, is what we percieve, right? how does one differentiate what > > > in our perception is ‘real’ or not? what exactly is ‘real’?? > > > they tell us they know, but its only their opinion. their perception. > > > what i can experience and percieve is the edge of my functioning > > > universe. it cant be proven whether anything beyond our own perceptions > > > really exists or not. so if angels exist for me and protons for somebody > > > else ultimately were all dealing with the same thing as i see it.. just > > > calling it something different… > > > very interesting walt! you are always so interesting. > > > anna > > > > Walt > > > > Ted and Barb Williams wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia > symptoms > > > > > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my > mind > > > > > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, > they > > > > > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic > while > > > > > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the > development and > > > > > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still > possess > > > > > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control > via > > > > > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. > > > > > The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around > me. I > > > > > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts > and > > > > > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people > simply can > > > > > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > > > > > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical > connections > > > > > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and > observation, I > > > > > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is > the hand > > > > > of God at work. > > > > > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand > the > > > > > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have > learned to > > > > > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by > a power > > > > > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry > without > > > > > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and > continues to > > > > > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > > > > > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of > Earthly > > > > > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every > timing, > > > > > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe > that sz > > > > > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is > the > > > > > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as > psychotic > > > > > symptoms, which is the curse. > > > > > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we > can come > > > > > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater > than > > > > > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some > small, > > > > > but all are equally important. > > > > > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar > conclusions. > > > > > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in > vain, > > > > > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the > learning, of > > > > > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always > be our > > > > > God. > > > > > May God bless you all, > > > > > Ted Williams > > > — > > > —————————— > > > ‘the softest of all soft things > > > overrides the hardest of things….’ > > > — i ching > > > "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple" > > > ~~~~~~~~~ rainbows ~~~~~~~~~~
Response:
Hi Walt, I did not mention in my first email that I am a scientist (computer and digital television research and development.) Since I was a child I held to the scientific precept of empirical evidence being required to validate a theory, and up until I started seeing things in a new way had always said that there "may or may not" be a God and patted myself on the back for keeping an "open mind" on the subject. I was wrong. However, I think to convince others of these manifestations of God’s will I feel that I must pull from my history some concrete examples of these manifestations, most of which are highly subjective. I do have some stellar (literally) examples, but I’m almost afraid to bring them up given the reaction I’ve had from the few "normal" people I’ve told. I’ll see how I can explain these things and do another post soon. If others are willing to cite examples, please do so. Strength and courage in numbers. -Ted "walt" <sart…@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:387CF470.FF423628@bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Rainbows, > I do agree that many people find beliefs comforting & re-assuring even if there is > not much evidence that they are true. And sometimes when they can be shown to be > false. I wrote a somewhat related note about this under the heading "Lies", which is > about the well-known placebo effect. It is known that the belief or expectation that > some treatment will work sometimes CAUSES it to work (through some mental mechanism) > even when it can be established that the treatment is a completely inert bogus pill. > I have no problem with this effect or with its application (except for some > discomfort about the ethics of deliberately lying to someone in order to help them). > I don’t view this therapeutic form of belief to be the same thing as knowledge > though. Believing because it makes me feel secure or helps me to cope with life is OK > with me, but what I mean by "knowledge" is an insight that has been as carefully > tested as possible & as widely as possible, & that has passed those tests & that has > lots of evidence to support it. > I also agree that it is extremely difficult or perhaps impossible to prove anything > beyond any shadow of a doubt. > However, I don’t think it is therefore hopeless to try to know anything, at least > partially & with reservations. On the contrary I think it is very important to try to > know about ourselves & the rest of the universe to the extent we are able & to also > understand the limitations of our knowledge, since our knowledge is imperfect. > But "knowing" even partially does not mean accepting an insight we have because it > feels very right & very profound to us personally or because we have some intense > sense of conviction about it. "Knowing" with limitations means (to me) testing our > ideas as best we can, both against the minds of others & against the outside world > when possible. > That is why I suggested somewhere earlier in this thread that it would be useful for > anyone who has some deep insight into the universe to try to explain this insight to > others & to ask their opinion of its validity. Anyway, if it is important, why not > share it? > Walt. > rainbows wrote: > > walt wrote: > > > Anyway, to summarize, I think that the feeling of some deep insight into the > > > universe might be possibly correct but can easily be false, just as the feeling > > > (I get myself) that someone is persecuting us might possibly be correct but can > > > easily be false. Although these two feelings are different, they are still > > > somewhat equivalent in that they can both easily be merely symptoms & they are > > > both known to be commonly occurring symptoms. > > > I hope no one takes offence at this negative view. > > well… i think its very interesting anyway. > > i guess in the end it matters if the ‘belief’ you are holding helps you > > or not… a lot of people ‘believe’ in religions and such that are > > completely without proof of any real existence.. > > yet masses of poeple hold to that possibly false idea purely for the > > comfort or familiarity or protection it represents… > > it may be that all these feelings *are* equally ‘false’ in the long > > run.. (or equally true) but the difference in the end is what > > *importance* of holding that totaly unprovable belief has for the people > > who hold it.. maybe that is its only function and purpose.. > > i have always believed that man totally created god in his own image. > > the same could be true for spiritual beliefs. im totally open to the > > possibility that it is all a construct of my own head. ultimately i dont > > think it matters beacuase in the end that *is* the total of our own > > experience, is what we percieve, right? how does one differentiate what > > in our perception is ‘real’ or not? what exactly is ‘real’?? > > they tell us they know, but its only their opinion. their perception. > > what i can experience and percieve is the edge of my functioning > > universe. it cant be proven whether anything beyond our own perceptions > > really exists or not. so if angels exist for me and protons for somebody > > else ultimately were all dealing with the same thing as i see it.. just > > calling it something different… > > very interesting walt! you are always so interesting. > > anna > > > Walt > > > Ted and Barb Williams wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > > > > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind > > > > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they > > > > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while > > > > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and > > > > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess > > > > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via > > > > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. > > > > The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I > > > > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and > > > > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can > > > > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > > > > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections > > > > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I > > > > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand > > > > of God at work. > > > > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > > > > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > > > > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > > > > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > > > > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > > > > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > > > > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > > > > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > > > > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > > > > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > > > > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > > > > symptoms, which is the curse. > > > > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > > > > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > > > > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > > > > but all are equally important. > > > > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > > > > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > > > > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > > > > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > > > > God. > > > > May God bless you all, > > > > Ted Williams > > — > > —————————— > > ‘the softest of all soft things > > overrides the hardest of things….’ > > — i ching > > "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple" > > ~~~~~~~~~ rainbows ~~~~~~~~~~
Response:
Hi Rainbows, I do agree that many people find beliefs comforting & re-assuring even if there is not much evidence that they are true. And sometimes when they can be shown to be false. I wrote a somewhat related note about this under the heading "Lies", which is about the well-known placebo effect. It is known that the belief or expectation that some treatment will work sometimes CAUSES it to work (through some mental mechanism) even when it can be established that the treatment is a completely inert bogus pill. I have no problem with this effect or with its application (except for some discomfort about the ethics of deliberately lying to someone in order to help them). I don’t view this therapeutic form of belief to be the same thing as knowledge though. Believing because it makes me feel secure or helps me to cope with life is OK with me, but what I mean by "knowledge" is an insight that has been as carefully tested as possible & as widely as possible, & that has passed those tests & that has lots of evidence to support it. I also agree that it is extremely difficult or perhaps impossible to prove anything beyond any shadow of a doubt. However, I don’t think it is therefore hopeless to try to know anything, at least partially & with reservations. On the contrary I think it is very important to try to know about ourselves & the rest of the universe to the extent we are able & to also understand the limitations of our knowledge, since our knowledge is imperfect. But "knowing" even partially does not mean accepting an insight we have because it feels very right & very profound to us personally or because we have some intense sense of conviction about it. "Knowing" with limitations means (to me) testing our ideas as best we can, both against the minds of others & against the outside world when possible. That is why I suggested somewhere earlier in this thread that it would be useful for anyone who has some deep insight into the universe to try to explain this insight to others & to ask their opinion of its validity. Anyway, if it is important, why not share it? Walt. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -rainbows wrote: > walt wrote: > > Anyway, to summarize, I think that the feeling of some deep insight into the > > universe might be possibly correct but can easily be false, just as the feeling > > (I get myself) that someone is persecuting us might possibly be correct but can > > easily be false. Although these two feelings are different, they are still > > somewhat equivalent in that they can both easily be merely symptoms & they are > > both known to be commonly occurring symptoms. > > I hope no one takes offence at this negative view. > well… i think its very interesting anyway. > i guess in the end it matters if the ‘belief’ you are holding helps you > or not… a lot of people ‘believe’ in religions and such that are > completely without proof of any real existence.. > yet masses of poeple hold to that possibly false idea purely for the > comfort or familiarity or protection it represents… > it may be that all these feelings *are* equally ‘false’ in the long > run.. (or equally true) but the difference in the end is what > *importance* of holding that totaly unprovable belief has for the people > who hold it.. maybe that is its only function and purpose.. > i have always believed that man totally created god in his own image. > the same could be true for spiritual beliefs. im totally open to the > possibility that it is all a construct of my own head. ultimately i dont > think it matters beacuase in the end that *is* the total of our own > experience, is what we percieve, right? how does one differentiate what > in our perception is ‘real’ or not? what exactly is ‘real’?? > they tell us they know, but its only their opinion. their perception. > what i can experience and percieve is the edge of my functioning > universe. it cant be proven whether anything beyond our own perceptions > really exists or not. so if angels exist for me and protons for somebody > else ultimately were all dealing with the same thing as i see it.. just > calling it something different… > very interesting walt! you are always so interesting. > anna > > Walt > > Ted and Barb Williams wrote: > > > Hello, > > > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > > > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind > > > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they > > > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while > > > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and > > > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess > > > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via > > > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. > > > The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I > > > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and > > > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can > > > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > > > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections > > > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I > > > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand > > > of God at work. > > > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > > > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > > > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > > > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > > > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > > > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > > > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > > > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > > > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > > > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > > > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > > > symptoms, which is the curse. > > > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > > > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > > > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > > > but all are equally important. > > > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > > > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > > > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > > > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > > > God. > > > May God bless you all, > > > Ted Williams > — > —————————— > ‘the softest of all soft things > overrides the hardest of things….’ > — i ching > "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple" > ~~~~~~~~~ rainbows ~~~~~~~~~~
Response:
Yo Ted…. Ain’t nobody goingto argue with the relatively common spiritual discovery that "all is one". However I always have trouble with the concept that the placement of every grain of sand on the beach is somehow managed by the divinity. I see the creation ad God as two distinct things. I see the marvelous unity of all this "isness" around me but believe it is simply a system. And shit happens within this system that is within God’s will. Any number of outcomes of any sitation are all within Gods will. And the more direct interventions of God come through spontaneous emergences of long strngs of mathematical unity . It is the order which springs sponataneously from chaos as noted by chaos theory and omplexity theory. God did not will spinal bifuda on that child. He does not will there be mosquitos. These are manifestations of the creation and as such are within Gods will. But not explicitly desired by the divinity. This is the creation Ted. Stay here long enough you die. My two cents. Damo
Response:
In article <pJTd4.37$4g6.2…@news.uswest.net>, "Ted and Barb Williams" <twilliam…@uswest.net> wrote: > Hello, > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > in early 1994. …………. > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > God. > May God bless you all, > Ted Williams
– It was never easy to relate those kind of things, but also had two things going on at the same time, but in bringing things out into the open in a website I was flooded with mail from people in the occult and curious new agers thinking I was one of the boys, so I took it off of the site amd here is all people will see today—— ————— http://www.grizzadam.com/twilight_zone.htm This area is perhaps the least important in terms of content or having any value, just needful to understand the reality of the supernatural and phenomena and have no desire to make a case for the New Agers or the Occult. People in altered states are people set up to have their brain twisted and can even be convinced that a chicken has lips in turning loose of all common sense, reasoning ability and will, little different than a robot and easy to manipulate. The two police reports mark the beginning or near the beginning of a period of time that is painful to recall in being out of control, not learning until late in 1996 that the Veteran Hospital had given me medication for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that was experimental and which draft dodgers would take to be declared unfit for military service to avoid being sent to Vietnam or drafted into the service. (I was awarded $45,000 for this disability when it was established that I was one of Uncle’s guineapigs.) My story is one of demonic possession and deliverance or to be more accurate I should say that the oppression was so severe that none could discern between possession and oppression, as I did supernatural things by demonic power, but satan can not completely take over an individual without God’s permission and as many saw first hand, God gave satan that permission to really jerk this old boy around in the twilight zone, same permission given to mess with Job, doing all but taking his life from him, but in the end he had twice as much as he had before and satan had to eat his best stuff. Demonic possession is nothing to sneeze at, but you can read the same basic account in Mark 5:1-20 and Luke 8:26-39 and just transpose it into 1994. I view my deliverance as something that took years and just all came to a head in 1994, false teachers and great pretenders playing the role while not in the script is also part of the reason why I never made it out of the crib, never reached maturity because of needing to unlearn the trash fed to me by those who truly had no love for the truth or sense of responsiblity about feeding the flock of God, thinking scripture is for fleecing the flock and they were very good at it. All I have to offer are documented events and experiences that were of a supernatural nature and many credible first hand sources who were part of it, but am not going through the agony of revisiting history just to satisfy curious people and be flooded again with mail from those in the occult and new agers seeking to use my documented accounts to give some validity to their way of life and feeding on phenomena that is all geared for their destruction and to harden the gound so that the seeds of the gospel message will never take root. I am happy to share all the details with honest researchers and people seeking to break loose from the occult and demonic influences, but not going to find anything here to encourage feeding on paranormal things, no sightings of Bigfoot, no opinions about UFO’s, no dancing around in the twilight zone, sorry about that, but if you are more than just curious with honest motives for wanting to do some extensive research that I make simple in providing names, addresses and detail of interactions with many in the entertainment business as well as the religious community, I will be glad to share this by way of E-mail, have it all on a page I will paste and send and will more than satisfy curiosity and end the shallow understanding of the skeptics. Crazy Lou http://www.grizzadam.com/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Hello, My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand of God at work. Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic symptoms, which is the curse. By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, but all are equally important. I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our God. May God bless you all, Ted Williams
Response:
Ted and Barb Williams <twilliam…@uswest.net> wrote in message news:pJTd4.37$4g6.2176@news.uswest.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > symptoms, which is the curse. > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > but all are equally important. > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > God. > May God bless you all, > Ted Williams
Welcome, welcome Ted. This is EXACTLY it as far as I’m concerned and in this woven tapestry is the strange coincidence of reading this message as I am unravelling a mystery that incorporates this thinking. You have put it into words far better than I ever could, and in a way that can be understood. The tapestry of life, the past, present and future all as one being guided and directed by …………. I can’t explain it ……………. but yes Ted, I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is wonderful to meet you. Michelle
Response:
Ted- > the hallucinations, they were both a blessing and a curse No doubt there, pal. > I believe that sz patients have been given the ability to see these > things, which is the blessing, but that others simply dismiss our > observations as psychotic symptoms, which is the curse.
I have a similar theory, that we are not suffering from a necessarily unique experience, but for some reason have the ability to discern and observe spiritual happenings of which others, while equally subject to them, are blissfully ignorant. While I do accept that the meds help make life more managable, it is hard for me to sit and listen to some pill-pusher tell me he knows that this is all chemical. This is a spiritual phenomenon. I cannot accept that some part of my material being is responsible for the authorship of all of these voices. Unlike you, though, I have not concluded that this displays the perfection of all of God’s work. In fact, quite the contrary. It’s like being let in on God’s private confession that not everything went according to plan here. Yeah, he’s working on it, but not all of his staff are on board. Some went awry and are causing significant disruption. I found the theory that it is all a manifestation of God’s wonderfulness left me over-vulnerable to the dangerous misleadings of less-than-swell voices. A healthy dose of doubt is about the only thing that seems to keep me safe. Alan
Response:
In article <pJTd4.37$4g6.2…@news.uswest.net>, "Ted and Barb Williams" <twilliam…@uswest.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month.
Hi, I call myself econobox. I do not use my real name, although, I believe that technology is such that I have very little control over my privacy. I’m sure my legal name can be had with very little effort and a certain type of motivation. My first "break" might have been when I was nineteen and brought on by several disappointments shattering my naive and ideological way of thinking. It’s hard to say, but I survived. I do not have hallucinations nor do I hear voices. Like your, my mind races. I have a feeling that I’m not intelligent enough to process all that comes to me so that’s why I’m "mumbo jumbo". It is important to note that I have never been professionally diagnosed as having any mental illnesses. Interestingly, one of the youths with whom I work told me that I was crazy. I told him that he’s yet to be qualified to make that diagnosis to which he proceeded to list his qualification being that of a server for a summer at a soup kitchen in L.A. Whoa! He may know something. Only kidding. There, that’s my background. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand > of God at work. > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > symptoms, which is the curse. > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > but all are equally important. > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > God. > May God bless you all, > Ted Williams
Thank you, Ted. Incidently, that same kid and I shared a break at work last night. Actually, he joined me and another co-worker while we were already on break. Our discussion eventually turned toward my guessing (pardon) at his future when it dawned on me that I was sounding like some kind of fortune teller and my audience was captivated. I didn’t want to sound that way, but another person asked me to tell her what I thought about her future. I promised her that all I was doing was reasoning given certain facts and that no one knows the future. She wanted to know, so I told her that older people are easier to guess about because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." She seemed to have resigned herself to my "prediction" and looked rather melancholy. I didn’t like that. I reminded her again that she does have some control over her destiny. She doubted that she would change to which I said, "It is wonderful to be a wife and mother and committed to your employer if you so choose to believe such." I didn’t feel vibes to the effect that my statement helped her to feel better. Anyway, Ted, I have some sense sometimes, but I don’t understand what you are talking about; perhaps, someday, the world will come together as something true and meaningful. At my stage, I go with the flow, do my best to not hurt people, remind myself that I am human and try to relish certain aspects of being human (though difficult), and understand that I am not entirely infallible. Sorry if I’ve made no sense with all this. I thank you for what stimulant you provided that allowed me this purge. econobox. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Hi Ted, I’ve read your note several times over since it appeared (& Duck’s too), thinking first I should make some reply, & then that it would be mistaken & offensive for me to say anything, & then again that I should comment. So finally I have decided to actually write something even though I feel it is likely to make me enemies here. I almost never get the sort of feelings you describe. I have had one instance (which I described here before at someone’s request) & that feeling turned out to be false. Ie, I had some insight (actually in a technical mathematical area) that I later concluded was false. Of course, I don’t question at all that you & Duck & many others do get these feelings of having some deep insight into God or the universe or existence, perhaps on a vast scale. But my opinion about new ideas or insights is that they cannot be reliably judged by the feelings we get about them. (I think that is especially true of schizophrenics, whose feelings have not always been reliable in the past.) Ideas & insights (I believe) need to be carefully tested by explaining them explicitly & in detail to others. If we can explain some idea or insight well enough to convince most others of its validity, then that is a good sign. If the insight cannot be expressed well enough to persuade many others, than that is sign that we may have a FEELING of insight that exceeds the insight itself. Then it might be a false feeling (an insight lacking in substance), just as the paranoid feeling (I often have had myself) that someone is OUT TO GET ME is often a false feeling. Of course, this method of testing ideas against the judgment of others is not infalable either. I only claim that it is much better than concluding that ideas are valid even though untested. There was, for example, the "cult" in the US who were persuaded by a charismatic leader that there was a spaceship coming behind the tail of a comet a few years ago, & that they could join the spaceship by all killing themselves. That leader had some intense insight of great importance to himself & his followers & he had the power to communicate it to a small group of followers, but most outsiders would agree that he had insufficient evidence for his insight. He could not comunicate his insight to a majority. Anyway, to summarize, I think that the feeling of some deep insight into the universe might be possibly correct but can easily be false, just as the feeling (I get myself) that someone is persecuting us might possibly be correct but can easily be false. Although these two feelings are different, they are still somewhat equivalent in that they can both easily be merely symptoms & they are both known to be commonly occurring symptoms. I hope no one takes offence at this negative view. Walt Ted and Barb Williams wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. > The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand > of God at work. > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > symptoms, which is the curse. > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > but all are equally important. > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > God. > May God bless you all, > Ted Williams
Response:
- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -econo…@my-deja.com wrote in message <85ahp9$j2…@nnrp1.deja.com>… >Thank you, Ted. Incidently, that same kid and I shared a break at work >last night. Actually, he joined me and another co-worker while we were >already on break. Our discussion eventually turned toward my guessing >(pardon) at his future when it dawned on me that I was sounding like >some kind of fortune teller and my audience was captivated. I didn’t >want to sound that way, but another person asked me to tell her what I >thought about her future. I promised her that all I was doing was >reasoning given certain facts and that no one knows the future. She >wanted to know, so I told her that older people are easier to guess >about because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." She seemed to have >resigned herself to my "prediction" and looked rather melancholy. I >didn’t like that. I reminded her again that she does have some control >over her destiny. She doubted that she would change to which I said, >"It is wonderful to be a wife and mother and committed to your employer >if you so choose to believe such." I didn’t feel vibes to the effect >that my statement helped her to feel better.
Ok, I know that I have no business in this thread, but something just didn’t sit right with me. "I told her that older people are easier to guess about because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." " Oh, really? Maybe some old people are in a rut, just like some young people. Then, some seniors may appear to be in a rut, due to physical limitations or even lack of money. For me, getting old has been liberating. Just thought I’d mention it. JanJan
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -the duck wrote in message <85b93v$8j…@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>… >JanJan <s…@me.not> wrote in message news:85b5s2$1fnav$1@fu-berlin.de… >> Ok, I know that I have no business in this thread, but something just >didn’t >> sit right with me. "I told her that older people are easier to guess about >> because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." " Oh, really? >> Maybe some old people are in a rut, just like some young people. Then, >some >> seniors may appear to be in a rut, due to physical limitations or even >lack >> of money. For me, getting old has been liberating. Just thought I’d >> mention it. >> JanJan >You can get "stuck in a rut" at any age. I think this happens once you lose >the spirit of adventure and interest in what is around you. >I don’t feel you are the "stuck in a rut" type at all JanJan – you sound >very imaginative, adventurous, and interesting. >Michelle
Thanks Michelle. I’ve been in a few ruts, but don’t like ruts so don’t stay long. I just didn’t like the generalization, I think sometimes young people see old people as "in a rut" because their lives don’t look very exciting. From the outside. Inside here, it gets better and better. JanJan
Response:
In article <pJTd4.37$4g6.2…@news.uswest.net>, "Ted and Barb Williams" <twilliam…@uswest.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. > The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand > of God at work. > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > symptoms, which is the curse. > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > but all are equally important. > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > God. > May God bless you all, > Ted Williams
Yes, it’s wonderful when you get over the initial mind explosions. I was diagnosed sz and then found to have multiple sclerosis – after what I have seen, and still see, any physical description of the mechanism seems to be stupidly missing the point, whatever medical term is applied. An amazing multi-dimensional, holographic… you know what I mean. There’s a film on BBC2 as I write this, called "Ponette". It’s about some little French kids. One five year old just asked another "If God is all powerful, why doesn’t he send me a sign?". Andy Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
JanJan <s…@me.not> wrote in message news:85b5s2$1fnav$1@fu-berlin.de… > Ok, I know that I have no business in this thread, but something just didn’t > sit right with me. "I told her that older people are easier to guess about > because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." " Oh, really? > Maybe some old people are in a rut, just like some young people. Then, some > seniors may appear to be in a rut, due to physical limitations or even lack > of money. For me, getting old has been liberating. Just thought I’d > mention it. > JanJan
You can get "stuck in a rut" at any age. I think this happens once you lose the spirit of adventure and interest in what is around you. I don’t feel you are the "stuck in a rut" type at all JanJan – you sound very imaginative, adventurous, and interesting. Michelle
Response:
<barn…@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:3878BD97.4F93@attglobal.net… > Unlike you, though, I have not concluded that this displays the > perfection of all of God’s work. In fact, quite the contrary. It’s like > being let in on God’s private confession that not everything went > according to plan here. Yeah, he’s working on it, but not all of his > staff are on board. Some went awry and are causing significant > disruption.
Maybe it does not display the perfection of all of God’s work – but it could display his "presence" if we are prepared to see it and acknowledge it. I feel almost certain that if everyone acknowledged this synchronisity and did what is "right" guided by the coincidences and signs that this world would be very different. It could indeed be the pathway back to Paradise. > I found the theory that it is all a manifestation of God’s wonderfulness > left me over-vulnerable to the dangerous misleadings of less-than-swell > voices. A healthy dose of doubt is about the only thing that seems to > keep me safe.
Voices I don’t think are really part of this, they are unique to yourself and I do agree that sometimes they can say very damaging things. It is more a question of chance – a voice in a crowd, a headline, something meaningful, a coincidence, something "outside" us that reflects our role and direction. I don’t know if I should quote from this book I am reading, because it is such a powerful book and I am not sure I am ready to take in what it is saying but:- "Oracles fulfil a profound need in spiritual life. We long to be addressed in an intimate helpful way by something wiser than ourselves. We yearn to feel our connection with the larger matrix of existence. The soul feels at home in realms beyond time and space." This divination of the Truth has been going on for thousands of years – and this same divination is what we might call synchronicity today. It is "keying in" to the matrix. Divining the Truth. And seeking guidance and direction in tune with the cosmological direction. And I am NOT crazy. Michelle
Response:
Andy Lee <andy_…@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:85bcsq$5rk$1@nnrp1.deja.com… > There’s a film on BBC2 as I write this, called "Ponette". It’s about > some little French kids. One five year old just asked another "If God > is all powerful, why doesn’t he send me a sign?".
God DOES send signs, He sends them all the time, you just have to "tune in" in order to see them and hear them. It is a physical mind change to open up and "be aware" and if you are then it is INCREDIBLE how He flows through everything. The whole world takes on new MEANING as you see "the other side" portrayed in TRUTH and signs and guidance. It is more than incredible. It is the only way it could be. Michelle
Response:
In article <85b5s2$1fna…@fu-berlin.de>, "JanJan" <s…@me.not> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> – > econo…@my-deja.com wrote in message <85ahp9$j2…@nnrp1.deja.com>… > >Thank you, Ted. Incidently, that same kid and I shared a break at work > >last night. Actually, he joined me and another co-worker while we were > >already on break. Our discussion eventually turned toward my guessing > >(pardon) at his future when it dawned on me that I was sounding like > >some kind of fortune teller and my audience was captivated. I didn’t > >want to sound that way, but another person asked me to tell her what I > >thought about her future. I promised her that all I was doing was > >reasoning given certain facts and that no one knows the future. She > >wanted to know, so I told her that older people are easier to guess > >about because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." She seemed to have > >resigned herself to my "prediction" and looked rather melancholy. I > >didn’t like that. I reminded her again that she does have some control > >over her destiny. She doubted that she would change to which I said, > >"It is wonderful to be a wife and mother and committed to your employer > >if you so choose to believe such." I didn’t feel vibes to the effect > >that my statement helped her to feel better. > Ok, I know that I have no business in this thread, but something just didn’t > sit right with me. "I told her that older people are easier to guess about > because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." " Oh, really? > Maybe some old people are in a rut, just like some young people.
I apologize for the negative sounding connotation of the cliche I had chosen to describe mature people who have chosen their paths and followed through in a sense that has remained true to their levels of comfort. I write lazily at times and tend to quote cliches all too frequently. Perhaps I might have chosen "set in their ways" which may have been gentler in judgement yet, unfortunately, still an over- generalization. To put the phrase in context, my coworker asked me if she would be "stuck working at [insert place of business] for the rest of her life." Consequently, I answered with etc… which may not be an acceptable response for some considering some backgrounds, sensitivity levels, closeness of relationship to the conversing parties and so-on. I do not mean to insult with my phrasing; however, it appears I have. My apologies once more, and if it’s any consolation, I will be turning thirty-six in the not too distant future. I’m not eggzactly a "spring chicken" now am I?" btw, humor is difficult for me. I am now having a frenzy of panicky thoughts about all the thirty-sixers and up who will be mad at me for implying their not spring chickens. I hope not to make enemies. If you met me in real life you’d see that I’m just your average goofy twit. eeks! I’m off to bury my head. Sorry again. econobox. Then, some > seniors may appear to be in a rut, due to physical limitations or even lack > of money. For me, getting old has been liberating. Just thought I’d > mention it. > JanJan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
the duck wrote: > "Oracles fulfil a profound need in spiritual life. We long to be > addressed in an intimate helpful way by something wiser than ourselves. > We yearn to feel our connection with the larger matrix of existence. > The soul feels at home in realms beyond time and space."
Michelle- I agree with most of what you said, but I am concerned about folks being a bit gullible to the suggestions of spirits or impressed by a bit of synchronisity observed in the outer world around them. It is precisely because of this profound need and yearning that we are so easily mislead. I also have observed plenty of synchronisity in my day, and I don’t believe myself to be crazy. I have just come to the conclusion that, while it is within God’s power to cause such things, that power has not been exclusively reserved to Him. Other spirits also can produce such effects and while doing so, take pleasure in misleading our yearning hearts and exploiting our deep need for oracles. The euphoria and fear that go along with observing such events really needs to be mixed with a bit of skepticism. Just because the observation is accurate and we know we are not crazy doesn’t mean that the cause of the observable event is on the side of goodness and light. Alan
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It has occured to me that part of my apology sounds selfish i.e. the part that states that I hope not to make enemies. While this is true, I moreso hope to be a good and decent person. Life is such that one cannot please everyone at all times. My goal is not to be a pleaser, and if I make an enemy or two while striving to be good and decent (granted, vague terms but I hope sufficient enough for this discussion), then so be it. Certainly, I am no Ghandi (who, like Jesus, had his fair share of enemies, though he preached peace), but sign me, econobox. In article <85c4r9$mn…@nnrp1.deja.com>, econo…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <85b5s2$1fna…@fu-berlin.de>, > "JanJan" <s…@me.not> wrote: > > – > > econo…@my-deja.com wrote in message <85ahp9
$j2…@nnrp1.deja.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >Thank you, Ted. Incidently, that same kid and I shared a break at > work > > >last night. Actually, he joined me and another co-worker while we > were > > >already on break. Our discussion eventually turned toward my > guessing > > >(pardon) at his future when it dawned on me that I was sounding like > > >some kind of fortune teller and my audience was captivated. I didn’t > > >want to sound that way, but another person asked me to tell her what > I > > >thought about her future. I promised her that all I was doing was > > >reasoning given certain facts and that no one knows the future. She > > >wanted to know, so I told her that older people are easier to guess > > >about because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." She seemed to have > > >resigned herself to my "prediction" and looked rather melancholy. I > > >didn’t like that. I reminded her again that she does have some > control > > >over her destiny. She doubted that she would change to which I said, > > >"It is wonderful to be a wife and mother and committed to your > employer > > >if you so choose to believe such." I didn’t feel vibes to the effect > > >that my statement helped her to feel better. > > Ok, I know that I have no business in this thread, but something just > didn’t > > sit right with me. "I told her that older people are easier to guess > about > > because they tend to "get stuck in a rut." " Oh, really? > > Maybe some old people are in a rut, just like some young people. > I apologize for the negative sounding connotation of the cliche I had > chosen to describe mature people who have chosen their paths and > followed through in a sense that has remained true to their levels of > comfort. I write lazily at times and tend to quote cliches all too > frequently. Perhaps I might have chosen "set in their ways" which may > have been gentler in judgement yet, unfortunately, still an over- > generalization. > To put the phrase in context, my coworker asked me if she would be > "stuck working at [insert place of business] for the rest of her > life." Consequently, I answered with etc… which may not be an > acceptable response for some considering some backgrounds, sensitivity > levels, closeness of relationship to the conversing parties and so-on. > I do not mean to insult with my phrasing; however, it appears I have. > My apologies once more, and if it’s any consolation, I will be turning > thirty-six in the not too distant future. I’m not eggzactly a "spring > chicken" now am I?" btw, humor is difficult for me. I am now having a > frenzy of panicky thoughts about all the thirty-sixers and up who will > be mad at me for implying their not spring chickens. > I hope not to make enemies. If you met me in real life you’d see that > I’m just your average goofy twit. eeks! > I’m off to bury my head. Sorry again. > econobox. > Then, some > > seniors may appear to be in a rut, due to physical limitations or > even lack > > of money. For me, getting old has been liberating. Just thought I’d > > mention it. > > JanJan > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
econo…@my-deja.com wrote in message <85c4r9$mn…@nnrp1.deja.com>… >In article <85b5s2$1fna…@fu-berlin.de>, > "JanJan" <s…@me.not> wrote: >> Maybe some old people are in a rut, just like some young people. >I apologize for the negative sounding connotation of the cliche I had >chosen to describe mature people who have chosen their paths and >followed through in a sense that has remained true to their levels of >comfort. I write lazily at times and tend to quote cliches all too >frequently. Perhaps I might have chosen "set in their ways" which may >have been gentler in judgement yet, unfortunately, still an over- >generalization.
Exactly. It’s the generalizations I was objecting to. And I also apologize, for reacting too strongly. I have a tendency to do that. <snip> >I do not mean to insult with my phrasing; however, it appears I have.
"Insult" is way too strong a word. Again, I’m sorry I over reacted. >My apologies once more, and if it’s any consolation, I will be turning >thirty-six in the not too distant future. I’m not eggzactly a "spring >chicken" now am I?"
From my point of view, yes, you are. :) btw, humor is difficult for me. I am now having a >frenzy of panicky thoughts about all the thirty-sixers and up who will >be mad at me for implying their not spring chickens.
You might ask yourself why not being a spring chicken is a bad thing. Growing older is a gift, one that not everyone gets. Enjoy it. >I hope not to make enemies. If you met me in real life you’d see that >I’m just your average goofy twit. eeks! >I’m off to bury my head. Sorry again. >econobox.
Please unbury your head. I really didn’t mean to attack you or make you feel badly. JanJan
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<barn…@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:3879E191.48AC@attglobal.net… > Michelle- > I agree with most of what you said, but I am concerned about folks being > a bit gullible to the suggestions of spirits or impressed by a bit of > synchronisity observed in the outer world around them. It is precisely > because of this profound need and yearning that we are so easily mislead. > I also have observed plenty of synchronisity in my day, and I don’t > believe myself to be crazy. I have just come to the conclusion that, > while it is within God’s power to cause such things, that power has not > been exclusively reserved to Him. Other spirits also can produce such > effects and while doing so, take pleasure in misleading our yearning > hearts and exploiting our deep need for oracles. > The euphoria and fear that go along with observing such events really > needs to be mixed with a bit of skepticism. Just because the observation > is accurate and we know we are not crazy doesn’t mean that the cause of > the observable event is on the side of goodness and light. > Alan
I can see your point entirely, and I note that in my book after my current chapter which is "Dreams as Oracles" is a chapter entitled "The Shadow side of Oracles". From the start of the book she has stressed what you say above, and if you are to seek any form of Divination then the prayer must be:- a) for help b) for protection c) only for the highest good She has also stressed that you can "lose yourself" in oracles and synchronisity by being guided totally by signs and sights and sounds to the extent of losing your own identity. She stresses how crucial judgement is. The strangest thing is though, that this book is not new knowledge to me, it is like a clarification of what I have always believed in. It is strange how sometimes I can have a powerful thought and just at that moment the radio seems to get extra loud and a voice seems to "give" me an answer. Or I can look up and suddenly hit on a book title that "means" something. I can even be at work and pick up a cheque from a customer, seriously wondering something like "I wonder if Atlantis really is just a myth" and the cheque might be from "Mermaid Ltd" or "Poseidon Ltd". These kind of weird and WONDERFUL coincidences are too numerous to be purely chance. I will tell you of one that seems impossible, but I was punching holes in hundreds and hundreds of sheets of paper and filing them in a lever arch file. I gave the file to my boss to take to a meeting and he was most concerned as to I think it was the reference number on some kind of agreement. Would you believe I had punched a hold straight through the reference number. I went back to my desk and lo and behold there on my desk was one little punched hole that must have escaped going into the hole punch, and yes, it was exactly the hole that matched the reference number he was looking for. I think there could be a way of encouraging the RIGHT synchronicity, first I believe that you should never wish for material things and second and most important is that you NEVER wish for any harm to anyone. I am sure there must be continuous synchronicity/oracles that run in complete parallel to THE TRUTH. That there is at core a ROOT set which is how the world functions. If you believe in God you could call it the WILL of God. I would so much like to believe this, so much like to believe that this journey, this discovery really is important and that this strange coincidence of being given this book for Christmas and then coming across this thread and talking about it like this is because there really, really is something more that I may be on the track of. Michelle
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In article <85be1f$b8…@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, "the duck" <d…@sanctuary.greatxscape.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Andy Lee <andy_…@my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:85bcsq$5rk$1@nnrp1.deja.com… > > There’s a film on BBC2 as I write this, called "Ponette". It’s about > > some little French kids. One five year old just asked another "If God > > is all powerful, why doesn’t he send me a sign?". > God DOES send signs, He sends them all the time, you just have to "tune in" > in order to see them and hear them. > It is a physical mind change to open up and "be aware" and if you are then > it is INCREDIBLE how He flows through everything. The whole world takes on > new MEANING as you see "the other side" portrayed in TRUTH and signs and > guidance. > It is more than incredible. > It is the only way it could be. > Michelle
Yeah, I agree. Strangely enough, the series we’re just finishing a film for is called "The Other Side" (runs on Channel Four very late/early) – or did I already tell you that and you’re consciously making reference? Incredible. Andy Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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walt wrote: > Anyway, to summarize, I think that the feeling of some deep insight into the > universe might be possibly correct but can easily be false, just as the feeling > (I get myself) that someone is persecuting us might possibly be correct but can > easily be false. Although these two feelings are different, they are still > somewhat equivalent in that they can both easily be merely symptoms & they are > both known to be commonly occurring symptoms. > I hope no one takes offence at this negative view.
well… i think its very interesting anyway. i guess in the end it matters if the ‘belief’ you are holding helps you or not… a lot of people ‘believe’ in religions and such that are completely without proof of any real existence.. yet masses of poeple hold to that possibly false idea purely for the comfort or familiarity or protection it represents… it may be that all these feelings *are* equally ‘false’ in the long run.. (or equally true) but the difference in the end is what *importance* of holding that totaly unprovable belief has for the people who hold it.. maybe that is its only function and purpose.. i have always believed that man totally created god in his own image. the same could be true for spiritual beliefs. im totally open to the possibility that it is all a construct of my own head. ultimately i dont think it matters beacuase in the end that *is* the total of our own experience, is what we percieve, right? how does one differentiate what in our perception is ‘real’ or not? what exactly is ‘real’?? they tell us they know, but its only their opinion. their perception. what i can experience and percieve is the edge of my functioning universe. it cant be proven whether anything beyond our own perceptions really exists or not. so if angels exist for me and protons for somebody else ultimately were all dealing with the same thing as i see it.. just calling it something different… very interesting walt! you are always so interesting. anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Walt > Ted and Barb Williams wrote: > > Hello, > > My name is Ted Williams and I am a man who developed schizophrenia symptoms > > in early 1994. I went through a period of absolute hell, with my mind > > racing so fast as to cause physical pain. Then the hallucinations, they > > were both a blessing and a curse as some were beautiful and angelic while > > others were hellish and painful. Through the course of the development and > > later control of my disorder, I slowly learned a skill which I still possess > > today, even though my symptoms are under complete (medical) control via > > about $1200.00 worth of meds a month. > > The skill I learned was to be an acute observer of the world around me. I > > learned how to spot synchronisms and relationships between thoughts and > > events, both internal and external to myself, that other people simply can > > not see. I will admit that early on, while I was having audio > > hallucinations, I thought that these synchronisms and logical connections > > were created by me. After a long period of contemplation and observation, I > > realized that what I was witnessing, and still am today, was and is the hand > > of God at work. > > Even though I am symptom free, this ability to see and understand the > > tapestry of the universe around me has not abated. Since I have learned to > > perceive the miracle of the universe, or more likely been trained by a power > > greater than myself, I can now spot the patterns in the tapestry without > > fail. I stand in awe and wonder of what God has created, and continues to > > nurture and control before my very eyes each and every day. > > Nothing, absolutely nothing, is left to chance; from the smallest of Earthly > > things to the largest of astronomical things. Every event, every timing, > > every thing is under very careful and loving control. I believe that sz > > patients have been given the ability to see these things, which is the > > blessing, but that others simply dismiss our observations as psychotic > > symptoms, which is the curse. > > By careful observation by those of us who can see these things, we can come > > to understand that we are not alone. There is a purpose greater than > > ourselves, but each of us has a part in it. Some are big and some small, > > but all are equally important. > > I am interested in hearing from others who have come to similar conclusions. > > Let’s compare notes, in an open forum, and make our suffering not in vain, > > but just a small price to pay for the discovery, or rather the learning, of > > the absolute truth from the absolute teacher, who is and will always be our > > God. > > May God bless you all, > > Ted Williams
– —————————— ‘the softest of all soft things overrides the hardest of things….’ — i ching "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple" ~~~~~~~~~ rainbows ~~~~~~~~~~
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