Question:
I don’t know if it is too late to put my two cents in. I have two little girls now. I never really thought about the abuse and kids until my oldest got to the age when my abuse started. I know now it is natural to be fearful as that time in her life was bound to bring back memories in mine. I have talked to her about the things she has to look for without going into too much detail. I was abused by my brother and I don’t want her to know about that. I make sure she is never alone with anyone I don’t trust and I am sure I am more dilligent because of my abuse.
There is no real ‘right’ time that anyone else can tell you to have a child. That decision will come to you when you are ready. Love yourselves and each other and you will know when you are ready to give that love and protection to a little one.I wish you good feelings and kind thoughts in your journey. Irene
Response:
Thanks go out to everyone who responded, here or via email. :) You’ve all helped. -Sara.
Response:
Hi, it’s me again. I know you’re all thrilled to read another of these, so I’ll pass out the popcorn and skittles. ;)
Oooh, yum. I’ve got some eucalyptus drops here too – want one? Before I lose too many of you, I have a couple of serious questions. Matt and I are talking about having a baby, and I’d like some input/feedback from any survivors who’re parents out there.
I’m not a parent, but (surprise, surprise) I have an opinion. Where do I need to be in my recovery before we consider a child?
‘Need’? Nowhere, anywhere, somewhere. There’s no definitive end to recovery and the process is blurry enough that trying to say ‘I am definitely at point x, y or z’ is going to be inaccurate (IMHO). The significant question is more about whether you are committed to a degree of self-awareness about abuse and recovery and therefore able to take responsibility for you own actions as a parent. Also, I’m curious about how the recovery process "works." Are there defined stages, like for grief? Are there periods most everyone goes through, but in no particular order? I’ve worked through my "anger" stage, and now I’m doing "fear." What comes next?
Judith Lewis Herman, in her book ‘Trauma and Recovery’. suggests three stages; ‘Safety’, ‘Remembrance and Mourning’, ‘Reconnection’. She points out that these stages are named on the basis of the central task in each stage but that there is much more going on than simply those tasks. The movement through them is not linear but shifting and dialectical; sometimes described as a spiral where issues are revisited on deeper levels emotionally and on higher levels of integration. The basic themes though, are a movement from unpredictable danger to reliable safety; dissociated trauma to acknowledged memory; stigmatized isolation to social connection. Herman is mainly talking about complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, including flashbacks and dissociation to the extent of fragmented personality. You might not have started from having dissociated the trauma so that part of the recovery process would be unnecessary for you. Same applies to the other categories but I think they make sense generally – they are accurate for me anyway. The emotions seem to all turn up in each stage, BTW – but they mean something different as you move along. ‘Fear’ in the first stage for me meant a paralysing and overwhelming numbness which I couldn’t even name; in the second stage, as I started to sort out memories, it was connected to ideas and became something which had more substance; in the third stage it’s something I’m learning to feel at the same time as being able to think and act with other people around. So anyway – that’s how I think of the process. Skittles are my favorite! I always pass them out at Halloween and put them in the kids’ stockings at Christmas. I am not an abuse survivor. But my adopted sons are, and their parents were continuing a cycle of abuse that probably began with THEIR parents, etc, etc.
Quite possibly, although studies suggest that ‘neglect’ is the most commonly reported sort of abuse in the childhood of incarcerated sexual offenders, including sexual abusers of children. I don’t know if this is so with ‘abuse’ in more general terms. I don’t think you have to be at a certain "stage" in your recovery, to think about having a baby either. My kids’ abusers weren’t at any stage at all. They didn’t think in terms of abuse. To them, battering and burning and starvation and drunken rages were normal and fine. As far as sexual abuse goes, a father has every right to use his daughter any way he wants, make her cook, make her clean, make her haul water from the brook (no indoor plumbing), and use her for sex. She’s his, isn’t she?
Ermm, happens to male kids too y’know. By their fathers or other close male relatives as well as the stereotypical priest or scoutmaster (more frequently the family member as far as anyone can tell). If you acknoweldge that you were abused, and that it’s not okay to continue that cycle, then you are farther along than many abuse survivors. I think therein lies the difference between most people who continue the cycle and those who don’t. The statistics say, most people who were abused abuse their own children.
Not the studies I’ve seen. The statistics I’ve seen say that people who abuse were probably abused. That doesn’t mean that the reverse is true – that those who were abused will abuse. It’s certainly a risk factor, yes, but as I said above neglect seems to be more significant. In the case of sexual abuse remember that most child molesters abuse many kids – in Australia it’s been estimated that the average number of children each molester abuses is about 70. If all those kids went on to abuse others in the same way the rate would be exponential and way ahead of population growth and there would not be a child in the world currently who had _not_ been molested. In fact, the vast majority of molested kids do _not_ go on to molest kids. Mick. It’s my own opinion, that survivors who are – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – actively working on recovery are much less likely to abuse. I wonder what the statistics are regarding recoverers (as opposed to survivors). I wonder what percentage of people who have been abused actually work on getting better? I bet it’s a small portion, and the world will never know, because there are plenty of people who survived severe abuse that don’t even know that it was abuse. Talk about rambling! It’s a hard job to be a parent. Having a baby is the easy part. The first six months are easy, it’s the next 21 years that can kill you! And it’s a 24 hour a day, 365 day a year job. And the emotions that go with it are unbelieveable! Intense happiness and intense sadness. Disappointment, fear, pride, joy, and sometimes you can feel all of this in one day! And energy, and exhaustion, discouragement and anticipation (I am anticipating our camping/amusement trip park in a week and I am discouraged that I don’t have more money to spend on it.) I think I’ve gone on long enough. Good luck, and I think EVERYONE who has an inkling of what a huge step becoming a parent is agonizes over whether or not they’re ready to have a baby. I almost want to say if you’re agonizing over the decision, it’s probably the right time. But other people would say don’t have a baby until you’re sure you’re ready. It’s an awful big step to take to be 100% sure. And since it’s your first child, how do you know? Sorry I rambled, Cor
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sara, I don’t think that you have to have passed this or that stage before you can consider children, nor would I be the right person to be setting rules. All I have is a small piece of advise about a problem I noticed. Although I’m not a parent (at least directly), I noticed that I started getting edgy and scared when the kids I was around grew close to the age I was when I was being abused, which for me was around 5 or 6. Mind you, this was years ago. I wasn’t very aware of how the abuse had left me feeling vulnerable, so I didn’t know why I wasn’t happy. Eventually I realized some of the reasons, which helped. Just thought that might help. Swords
This is a very good point, Swords. What happens is that you get reminders of things, and sometimes triggers when you have kids about your own childhood. I had an instance of something, that had begun when I was preverbal, with my offspring and the mother-thing that I got to see happen as an outsider to the action that was VERY illuminating as to some of my reactions to certain things throughout my entire life. Unlike Swords’ slow realization, this happened like a light had gone on, brightly illuminating the whole room. In watching this interaction, I was able to see in a flash something that had been a nagging mystery all my life and which confirmed a lifelong suspicion about how she had treated me at a similar age and younger (as well as ever since). BINGO! -babs — "Excuse me while I dance a little jig of despair."
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, it’s me again. I know you’re all thrilled to read another of these, so I’ll pass out the popcorn and skittles. ;) Before I lose too many of you, I have a couple of serious questions. Matt and I are talking about having a baby, and I’d like some input/feedback from any survivors who’re parents out there. Where do I need to be in my recovery before we consider a child? Also, I’m curious about how the recovery process "works." Are there defined stages, like for grief? Are there periods most everyone goes through, but in no particular order? I’ve worked through my "anger" stage, and now I’m doing "fear." What comes next?
Skittles are my favorite! I always pass them out at Halloween and put them in the kids’ stockings at Christmas. I am not an abuse survivor. But my adopted sons are, and their parents were continuing a cycle of abuse that probably began with THEIR parents, etc, etc. I don’t think you have to be at a certain "stage" in your recovery, to think about having a baby either. My kids’ abusers weren’t at any stage at all. They didn’t think in terms of abuse. To them, battering and burning and starvation and drunken rages were normal and fine. As far as sexual abuse goes, a father has every right to use his daughter any way he wants, make her cook, make her clean, make her haul water from the brook (no indoor plumbing), and use her for sex. She’s his, isn’t she? If you acknoweldge that you were abused, and that it’s not okay to continue that cycle, then you are farther along than many abuse survivors. I think therein lies the difference between most people who continue the cycle and those who don’t. The statistics say, most people who were abused abuse their own children. It’s my own opinion, that survivors who are actively working on recovery are much less likely to abuse. I wonder what the statistics are regarding recoverers (as opposed to survivors). I wonder what percentage of people who have been abused actually work on getting better? I bet it’s a small portion, and the world will never know, because there are plenty of people who survived severe abuse that don’t even know that it was abuse. Talk about rambling! It’s a hard job to be a parent. Having a baby is the easy part. The first six months are easy, it’s the next 21 years that can kill you! And it’s a 24 hour a day, 365 day a year job. And the emotions that go with it are unbelieveable! Intense happiness and intense sadness. Disappointment, fear, pride, joy, and sometimes you can feel all of this in one day! And energy, and exhaustion, discouragement and anticipation (I am anticipating our camping/amusement trip park in a week and I am discouraged that I don’t have more money to spend on it.) I think I’ve gone on long enough. Good luck, and I think EVERYONE who has an inkling of what a huge step becoming a parent is agonizes over whether or not they’re ready to have a baby. I almost want to say if you’re agonizing over the decision, it’s probably the right time. But other people would say don’t have a baby until you’re sure you’re ready. It’s an awful big step to take to be 100% sure. And since it’s your first child, how do you know? Sorry I rambled, Cor
Response:
Hi, Sara, I don’t think that you have to have passed this or that stage before you can consider children, nor would I be the right person to be setting rules. All I have is a small piece of advise about a problem I noticed. Although I’m not a parent (at least directly), I noticed that I started getting edgy and scared when the kids I was around grew close to the age I was when I was being abused, which for me was around 5 or 6. Mind you, this was years ago. I wasn’t very aware of how the abuse had left me feeling vulnerable, so I didn’t know why I wasn’t happy. Eventually I realized some of the reasons, which helped. Just thought that might help. Swords – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, it’s me again. I know you’re all thrilled to read another of these, so I’ll pass out the popcorn and skittles. ;) Before I lose too many of you, I have a couple of serious questions. Matt and I are talking about having a baby, and I’d like some input/feedback from any survivors who’re parents out there. Where do I need to be in my recovery before we consider a child? Also, I’m curious about how the recovery process "works." Are there defined stages, like for grief? Are there periods most everyone goes through, but in no particular order? I’ve worked through my "anger" stage, and now I’m doing "fear." What comes next? Now the rambling part. Nope, changed my mind. Give the skittles back. ;) -Sara.
Take ".protect" out of the address for replies. Use anon-19589 at anon.twwells.com for anon email
Response:
Hi, it’s me again. I know you’re all thrilled to read another of these, so I’ll pass out the popcorn and skittles. ;) Before I lose too many of you, I have a couple of serious questions. Matt and I are talking about having a baby, and I’d like some input/feedback from any survivors who’re parents out there. Where do I need to be in my recovery before we consider a child? Also, I’m curious about how the recovery process "works." Are there defined stages, like for grief? Are there periods most everyone goes through, but in no particular order? I’ve worked through my "anger" stage, and now I’m doing "fear." What comes next? Now the rambling part. Nope, changed my mind. Give the skittles back. ;) -Sara.
Response:
Hi Sara.. It’s Ellie. I can only respond to part of your post as I don’t really know any of the answers to some things. Some of this may tend to get rambling, so please, forgive me if I get kind of confusing. Hi, it’s me again. I know you’re all thrilled to read another of these, so I’ll pass out the popcorn and skittles. ;) Before I lose too many of you, I have a couple of serious questions. Matt and I are talking about having a baby, and I’d like some input/feedback from any survivors who’re parents out there. Where do I need to be in my recovery before we consider a child?
You know, its strange, but as you ask this question, I realize that I would ask one back. The same one I would ask of any person considering having a child. Do you think you are ready to have a child? Along with that one I’d also ask if you are fully aware of what it means to have a child? No, I take that back, are you aware of the responsiblity of brining another human being into the world? (ok, now I’m confused… Damn!) It’s just that parenthood is not all warm fuzzies and cuddles. It’s also full of sorrow and every other emotion you can imagine. Once you choose to be a parent, it’s pretty hard to take it back, you know? You become a parent and a parent you stay for as long as you live. I don’t know if that made any sense. I’m tired and very sick at the moment (not that I ever get a chance to actually get better. Chicken soup and hot tea have to wait until the laundry and dishes and tucking the girls into bed are through.) I hope it did make sense. I was a parent long before I began my recovery. I wouldn’t change that for the world. I love being a mother. For me, it’s a difficult thing… I am not really the cuddly-warm-fuzzy kind of person that I’d like to be as a parent sometimes. There are times when all I want is to be left alone and to be able to take a bath or read a newspaper without interruption and in those times I get frustrated. This can sometimes go on for days and frustration builds and builds and just when I think I can’t take any more, one of my girls comes up to me and hugs me tight and whispers in my ear, "mommy? you know what? I love you." At that moment all the frustration melts away and I know that it is all worth it. Children, I think are the most beautiful thing in the world. Even when they bring you toads and beatles. It’s incredible the amount of love that I hold for them. There just is nothing that they could ever do that would give me reason to stop loving them. Also, I’m curious about how the recovery process "works." Are there defined stages, like for grief? Are there periods most everyone goes through, but in no particular order? I’ve worked through my "anger" stage, and now I’m doing "fear." What comes next?
These are questions which I haven’t any answers for. Every time I think in terms of ’stages’ I end up realizing that maybe I missed a part of one stage or another. Now the rambling part. Nope, changed my mind. Give the skittles back. ;)
You can have all of them back except the purple and red ones… sorry, I ate those already. Ellie…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –Sara.
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