Question:
Have girlfriend who I love dearly. Turns out she has a MPD (abused as child). She has never been diagnosed. I confronted one of her personnas last night, who I call "Robo Cop" or "Super Cop". She uses same name as "my" sweetheart (alias Kitten) and she is one tough customer, who is charged with protecting Kitten. I confronted her in a very challenging way and demanded to know just what in the hell she thinks she has done to protect Kitten (alias name) and just how she figures she’s helping to protect Kitten when she’s alienating Kitten from someone who loves her very much and who would never, ever hurt Kitten. This Robo Cop is emotionally flat as a pancake …. has absolutely no emotions, probably because emotions would make this tough vigilante weak and vulnerable (supposedly). I told Robo Cop that, as a logical matter, I had a serious problem with someone playing cop, who has no emotions. A cop without emotions is a recipe for terrorism, like the cops at the 1978 Democratic Convention in Chicago, who just started clubbing everybody in sight, indiscriminately. Robo Cop did seem to listen and understand the logic and validity of my concerns. I told her flat out, that I believe she (Robo Cop), represents, ironically, the biggest threat to Kitten and her future happiness, because she is threatening to destroy the best relationship Kitten has ever had, with someone who truly loves her and cares for her. I have told her that her tires are over-inflated and she has outlived her usefulness, because of the protection overkill where it is totally innappropriate. I do not know if Kitten has any other personnas out there that I haven’t identified yet. The question is this: Is the approach I am taking an effective one? ….Meaning, is it an effective approach to try to single out the different personnas and try to reason with each of them in this type manner? I am trying to get each of them to realize that we’re all on the same team, with the same protective goals and concerns, in hopes that they will merge back into the one and re-integrate back into whole person again. I am trying to get each of them to realize and appreciate the geneology of events that led to their creation and that necessitated their creation, so they can realize that they are no longer serving the useful, helpful, constructive purpose they once did, because the circumstances have now changed so that their function has now become inapropriate and sometimes detrimental to Kitten’s welfare. They seem to be listening and considering my arguments very seriously. Is this an effective approach? Please try to give me some immediate guidance in this matter. If you also want to recommend a book or two to read, try to think of a book that might have been written for families, friends and loved ones of someone with MPD, i.e., people who are trying to live peacefully and normally with someone who suffers from MPD. Is MPD usually a permanent condition, or can it often culminate with a re-integration back into the single, whole, healthy person once again. Your help would be most appreciated indeed. Gary B. Ketcham Web Site: http://www2.netcom.com/~gketcham/zen.html
Response:
posted/emailed spoiler warning: this can be considered a flame. Also, there is splatted cursing and other trigger words. Have girlfriend who I love dearly.
Good. Turns out she has a MPD (abused as child). She has never been diagnosed. I confronted one of her personnas last night, who I call "Robo Cop" or "Super Cop". She uses same name as "my" sweetheart (alias Kitten) and she is one tough customer, who is charged with protecting Kitten. I confronted her in a very challenging way and demanded to know just what in the hell she thinks she has done to protect Kitten (alias name) and just how she figures she’s helping to protect Kitten when she’s alienating Kitten from someone who loves her very much and who would never, ever hurt Kitten.
Well, I dont know you. I don’t know you at all. I can’t make any judgements about you. But if I had a Kitten who was very important to me and everything sweet and loving that I couldn’t afford to be, that I salvaged from the wreckage of my childhood, I would be very very wary indeed of entrusting that Kitten into *anyones* hands. *Especially* anyone who says they love the Kitten. Cause theres nothing Kittens want more than love, and nobody easier to hurt than a Kitten, and no more effective way to wound a Kitten than to get real close talking about love and trust and then do or say something stupid, self-serving, patronising, or mean, right when she trusts you, and nothing harder to fix than a broken hearted alter when you yourself have no emotions. So if I had a Kitten, I’d look you over much much longer than you might like, and I would be more protective than you’d think called for, but then again it isn’t your Kitten is it? No matter how close to Kitten you feel, her pain would matter quite a bit more in "Robo-Cops" scheme of things, wouldn’t it? If things go wrong for you, its just a bad relationship, but if things go wrong enough for her, who knows that that system would even survive let alone ever be able to have a relationship again. You seem unaware of the level of trust you are asking. You are not, I can tell you, the first person to say you love that one. This Robo Cop is emotionally flat as a pancake …. has absolutely no emotions, probably because emotions would make this tough vigilante weak and vulnerable (supposedly).
Not supposedly. Accurately. I dont suppose you’ve ever had to do something truly horrid to someone to protect a child. Let me tell you…fiddling about with empathy towards the person you have to do the horrid thing to can take up just enough time for the other person to do the horrid thing to you and the child both. I told Robo Cop that, as a logical matter, I had a serious problem with someone playing cop, who has no emotions. A cop without emotions is a recipe for terrorism, like the cops at the 1978 Democratic Convention in Chicago, who just started clubbing everybody in sight, indiscriminately.
So, do you have experience of being attacked by cops? It sounds to me as if you may have some heavy unresolved stuff around those who are supposed to "serve and protect." For whats its worth, I agree with you, a cop ought to be able to feel. Robo Cop did seem to listen and understand the logic and validity of my concerns.
Have you listened to or understood the validity of hers? I figure that deciding the opposing argument is so invalid that the other person in the relationship needs to die/dissapear is not quite the empathy that I would call the product of listening and understanding. I told her flat out, that I believe she (Robo Cop), represents, ironically, the biggest threat to Kitten and her future happiness, because she is threatening to destroy the best relationship Kitten has ever had, with someone who truly loves her and cares for her.
Right. Well, is she indeed threatening to destroy it, or is she just hindering its developement? I have told her that her tires are over-inflated and she has outlived her usefulness,
And would you like to hear the same? Would you appreciate being told: " Well, thanks for socialising Kitten but we dont need you as a boyfreind anymore, so would you just mind k*lling yourself you obsolete tool?" Why d’you feel quite so comfortable saying such a horrible thing to the woman you supposedly love? Why do you seperate her value out so far from "your love" even though she has the same NAME?? because of the protection overkill where it is totally innappropriate.
And I suppose you think that if a man says I love you and likes the Kitten that sets him apart from other men? Kittens are *made* for attracting love. And they’re unfortunately prone to attracting the type of man who feels that you should be a big vulnerable trembling deer all day long so’s they can protect it. I do not know if Kitten has any other personnas out there that I haven’t identified yet.
Yet you know her so very well that you feel comfortable tinkering with its structure and removing bits you find unpleasant. I have a bit of knowledge for you: an intergrated multiple is one that accepts all parts as equally valuable. You might think whether you should do the same. The question is this: Is the approach I am taking an effective one? ….Meaning, is it an effective approach to try to single out the different personnas and try to reason with each of them in this type manner?
I expect it would be "effective" if you were a licensed therapist trying for increased communication between alters instead of some total burke who thinks hes creating the Bionic Multiple " We can rebuild her…she will be soft…loving…the perfect girlfreind…" we’re all on the same team, with the same protective goals and concerns,
Are you now? All on the same team? D’you expect saying sh*tty things is your job as her new alter then? S’funny, I would think you had different concerns seeing as you dont live in her body and want her to be your mate. I would think there might be a little conflict of interest there. You might for instance prefer that she didn’t fight with you, hm? in hopes that they will merge back into the one and re-integrate back into whole person again.
Right. And she came to you and expressed this as her burning desire then? And are you quite sure that the "original" "whole" four year old she once was, was very like the person called Kitten? And do you really think its a good idea to aim for recreating her based on an infant personality? Because "re-intergrate back" implies going backwards in a big big way. Maybe you ought to consider "intergrating" rather than "re-intergrating". Maybe the sentence is better put "interegrating into a whole person." without the "again". And why is it that you are aiming for this goal? Isnt all this a very personal decision? Do you think you’re the one doing the intergrating? I am trying to get each of them to realize and appreciate the geneology of events that led to their creation and that necessitated their creation,
Thats really really really dangerous stuff you are playing with there. Fun Fact: Therapists aren’t allowed to sleep with their patients because it leads to a serious power imbalance. Fun Fact: Therapy which the patient ~decides to try for~ intergration usually takes about five to seven years, and typically unhinges the patient intermittently, and very often causes s*icidal crises of varying intensity. But you go right ahead and see if you cant find "a book" to help you tinker with the womans inner workings. After all you’ve got the redeeming power of LOVE on your side. so they can realize that they are no longer serving the useful, helpful, constructive purpose they once did, because the circumstances have now changed so that their function has now become inapropriate and sometimes detrimental to Kitten’s welfare.
Which you know better than them. You’re right, its much better to learn to rely on your judgement of whats innapropriate than to rely on their own perceptions. Whenever they need a perception, they can just borrow from you. I wonder what they’ll do when they have to go to the supermarket alone and dont have you to supply insight. They seem to be listening and considering my arguments very seriously.
Oh, I am too. You bear watching, you do. Is this an effective approach? Please try to give me some immediate guidance in this matter.
My advice in a nutshell: Back the f’ off, is my advice. Stop being such so arrogant and judgemental and leave the therapeutic tinkering to ppl who a) arent romantically involved, and b) have some training. The proper area for you to help her from is the area of support. Supporting her will be quite demanding enough when/if ~she~ decides to go for therapy. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of Good Guy Points around the time when she is no longer able to have s*x at all, cringes from your touch, cries all day, and screams all night from horrible nightmares. If you can stick with her through the rough times, that’ll do nicely insofar as protecting her and showing love. If you also want to recommend a book or two to read, try to think of a book that might have been written for families, friends and loved ones of someone with MPD, i.e., people who are trying to live peacefully and normally with someone who suffers from MPD.
"Living with yourselves" by Sandra J. Hocking published by: Launch Press PO BOX 5629 Rockville MD 20855 price: 5.95 ( prolly should add some Postage and Handling ) if you try to look up at library these numbers are useful: ISBN: 1-877872-06-7 We recommend this one as easy to read and gentle. Also, it was written by a multiple, which is always a plus. Is MPD usually a permanent condition, or can it often culminate with a re-integration back into the single, whole, healthy person once again.
It depends on what the system wants. It is possible to be a single
… read more »
Response:
Hi Gary, I just read NOJ’s reply to you and I’d have to say that while I think she was a bit harsh she is also saying pretty much what I would like to say. I’ll keep going though, maybe I’ve got something else I can add. Have girlfriend who I love dearly.
First thing; I’m no language expert but I noticed your occasional clipped sentences and missing articles (a, the) which often indicate in my own writing that I’m finding it pretty difficult to talk about whatever I’m talking about. If that’s the case with you then I interpret it as a good sign in that you are willing to push yourself in what you see as your girlfriend’s interests – it shows care and l*ve I think, but I can’t know what sort of care or l*ve. You gotta be very careful who tries to decide what her interests are, and what direction you’re pushing, and what your own motivations are, and what (if any) your hopes or expectations are about the result of your efforts – maybe you can save up some of that care and love to use when you both are clearer about what she wants or needs. Turns out she has a MPD (abused as child). She has never been diagnosed. I confronted one of her personnas last night, who I call "Robo Cop" or "Super Cop". She uses same name as "my" sweetheart (alias Kitten) and she is one tough customer, who is charged with protecting Kitten. I confronted her in a very challenging way and demanded to know just what in the hell she thinks she has done to protect Kitten (alias name) and just how she figures she’s helping to protect Kitten when she’s alienating Kitten from someone who loves her very much and who would never, ever hurt Kitten.
Hmm… Okay, some of my history on this sort of thing to give you some context. I’m not multiple but more like a singleton who is very dissociated at times that derinitely have cost me some health and happiness and my sense of personality has always been fragmented but with the idea that all the fragments were ‘versions’ of me and that I was one person nevertheless. I’ve been described as having been ’stuck’ at a ‘co-aware’ stage of int*gr*t*on since childhood. I’m not diagnosed with anything but my psych’s guess is I’d be one of two things depending on who did the diagnosing. The first is ‘Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified’ (DDNOS – like aDID (multiple) who sort of doesn’t have as strong a degree and may not have quite the same ’symptoms’). For instance I don’t lose time in the really distinct way most multiples describe but I have occasionally spaced out in smaller ways, and it’s been a little trance-like. The other possibility is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) – _not_ that these are the same things, only that some psychs will diagnose them equivalently, treat them equivalently and there is the suggestion in psych circles that all dissociative disorders can be construed as forms of PTSD. I sort of understand that argument but also feel it’s a bit like wordplay in that all psych problems could be construed as just being confused and stuck on a problem if you wanted to argue it blue in the face. I frankly couldn’t be bothered with a diagnosis process so I’ve looked at myself as someone who dissociates inappropriately at times and that I want to change that behaviour. It’s been working. This sounds pretty much like what you’re trying to _tell_ your girlfriend through your confrontation of ‘Robo-Cop’, and you might be right factually. You might not, and even if you are it might be irrelevant or harmful to say it. I know you were talking to ‘Robo-Cop’ but you can’t really presume much about the way a multiple receives information, or which parts get what story. As far as I know, every part is available to hear everything and every system of alters have their own ways and their own rules about receiving info. ‘Robo-Cop’, acting as protector, might have not wanted other parts to know what you were saying and had the ability to keep it to herself; she might have decided to let Kitten know that you didn’t want her to keep doing her job and Kitten may have been scared. Some other part may have effectively overheard and decided that if you wanted to dump ‘Robo-Cop’ then you’d better be dumped first. Any or all parts might have agreed tacitly with what you said and decided to work towards the goal of ‘Robo’Cop’ being less active. I could obviously go on, but I guess you can see the point I’m making – communication with a multiple is not necessarily straightforward. Imagine a lounge-room with three people who have known and worked closely with each other for twenty years, all working on the same project (which you can safely assume has potentially life-or-death consequences for those involved) who can become invisible at will and communicate with each other telepathically, and who don’t necessarily always like each other, and whose needs do not always coincide, and who all have some degree of responsibility and control marked out and who all have some degree of power interplay with the others and… you’ve got a rough starting model of what my mind would have looked like about five years ago. There were about a million rules, restrictions, objectives and responsibilities in there but that metaphor is suitable. I’m fairly singlish, remember. And then you come along and start saying, "I’ll help" and "Whatsisname, you should go," when you see Whatsisname, who happens to be the security chief and looks it – you could be helping, you could be throwing a spanner in the works, you’re certainly going to challenge that setup and stability pretty forcefully. Not trying to scare you and not trying to describe your girlfriend, just trying to remind you that sometimes ordinary logic or conversation will lead to unexpected problems because you can’t by definition be part of the original team that meant your girfriend survived and it can be painstaking even gaining a modicum of trust when you simply can’t be sure who is hearing you, and what they think of you. Trying to tell them what to do is unlikely to help, however fundamentally accurate your advice might be. And if it’s wrong then that would be one more piece of evidence that the system needs to stay strong, so you’d be ‘hardening’ the multiplicity. This Robo Cop is emotionally flat as a pancake …. has absolutely no emotions, probably because emotions would make this tough vigilante weak and vulnerable (supposedly). I told Robo Cop that, as a logical matter, I had a serious problem with someone playing cop, who has no emotions. A cop without emotions is a recipe for terrorism, like the cops at the 1978 Democratic Convention in Chicago, who just started clubbing everybody in sight, indiscriminately. Robo Cop did seem to listen and understand the logic and validity of my concerns. I told her flat out, that I believe she (Robo Cop), represents, ironically, the biggest threat to Kitten and her future happiness, because she is threatening to destroy the best relationship Kitten has ever had, with someone who truly loves her and cares for her. I have told her that her tires are over-inflated and she has outlived her usefulness, because of the protection overkill where it is totally innappropriate.
Well, that wasn’t a very good idea, IMHO. Especially not if you’ve also just told Kitten that the one she has always admired as her protector is clapped out rubbish and actually hurting her inadvertently. I understand what you mean and you may well be right, but from a therapeutic standpoint you’re putting the cart in the next village to the horse. A therapist who follows DID treatment guidelines would be very unlikely to be so confrontational or rude until they had established some level of trust and respect with the whole system, and then it would still be unlikely. Perhaps you’re saying "Trust and respect! I’m her boyfriend, I love her, I’m trying to help her," in which case I’d remind you that you think she’s DID and was abused somehow, almost certainly by someone who at some times at least gave some impression that they loved her and respected her and were there for her and whose very role in her life was defined socially as being supportive and on her side. And here you are saying that at least one version of her is a heap of junk and should be thrown on the scrap-heap. Any bells ringing about why therapists shouldn’t have close outside-office or intimate relationships with clients? About that ‘flat as a pancake’ emotional affect. Well, rememberthat’s what you’re being shown, not everything that’s going on. A ‘protector’ might also be the hard as ice crystallised version of some very powerful emotions. Fear, anger, the will to live, a sense of injustice… I don’t know enough to suggest more but a flat emotional response can be indicative of emotions so strong, with little room to move, that they becomes crystallised as certain sorts of behaviour, attitude or intent rather than facial and verbal expression. Cold anger, and I mean the frozen sort, (and I’ve had plenty of it) doesn’t care about anyone knowing about it through expression – it becomes a matter of will and little more. That’s what looks flat, the lack of apparent expression, but when I had that frozen anger I was confident I could k*ll G*d and that I wouldn’t have any trouble with the task. If there was fear mixed in I could hear a pin drop across the room and tell you the weather in the Bahamas for the next week and I could tell if you had a nipple ring by the noise of the friction of your chest rising and falling as you breathed while we were at a stadium concert and I would be confident of the layout of any building I was in by observation, question and deduction and I would be very, very, very, very certain that no change in my internal state could effect my abilities to discern these things. This is hypervigilance of a degree far different to paranoia – I had no delusion about anyone trying to … read more »
Response:
Jackie: EXQUISITELY well-put! Thank you! "I’ve been through the desert on a horse with no name; it feels good to be out of the rain!" Desert Hooves~~
Response:
I agree absolutely with what Prism Collective says in this perceptive and helpful post. Primrose – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, If someone I love seems to feel the way you do about one of my alters then I personally am hurt. I believe all of these alters are a part of me, and if you can’t or don’t like one "PART" of me than you don’t "Like ME"! Each and very alter in any system is worthy of love and understanding. Each and every alter in a system, has a reason to be here, and they too have been hurt! THEY took that hurt for you Kitten, when she could not except it for herself. IF you truly LOVE Kitten as you say you do, the you should be Grateful to ALL the alters, because it was THEM who kept your Kitten ALIVE! Without them she would have died long ago and you would have never ever met her! Instead of fighting with this alter I believe you should try to understand just where this alter is coming from! And then once you know that, maybe just maybe, you will understand more of your Kitten. Just our Two cents Prism Collective
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Response:
in relevant part, the statement which follows my reply below. MY REPLY IS: I am profoundly sorry that I ever asked the question. I have requested that the posting be removed from the server. I will not return with another inquiry. I came here because I needed help and was confused. I came here because I knew little or nothing about this situation and I believed you people knew much. I came here with an open mind, to learn and understand … to be guided by those who have been there and who could empathize and educate. I did NOT come here to be verbally attacked, ridiculed, or lacerated with condescending personal attacks suggesting that I was not a sincere seeker of truth. But as with most newsgroups, that’s what I got. I’ll delete this newsgroup from my subscribed list and leave you people to your own devices. I would ask that each and every person who responded to my inquiry (which appeared under the alias "gketcham") please remove all responses to my inquiry, so it no longer is posted in this newsgroup. Please remove all references to all of my postings and leave me in peace. Thank you
Response:
Hiya Prism Collective. I liked what you wrote. I’m sorry I didnt say so earlier. I dont feel that he read it. I dont know if he did, but he didnt act like he did. I dont think you were condescending or flaming at all. I was hostile, you were not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree absolutely with what Prism Collective says in this perceptive and helpful post. Hi Primrose, I’m glad someone liked our post, and thought it was perceptive and helpful, because we got a nasty email from this guy and he thought we flamed him and were condensending towards him! *shrug* Thanks Prism Collective Primrose Hi, If someone I love seems to feel the way you do about one of my alters then I personally am hurt. I believe all of these alters are a part of me, and if you can’t or don’t like one "PART" of me than you don’t "Like ME"! Each and very alter in any system is worthy of love and understanding. Each and every alter in a system, has a reason to be here, and they too have been hurt! THEY took that hurt for you Kitten, when she could not except it for herself. IF you truly LOVE Kitten as you say you do, the you should be Grateful to ALL the alters, because it was THEM who kept your Kitten ALIVE! Without them she would have died long ago and you would have never ever met her! Instead of fighting with this alter I believe you should try to understand just where this alter is coming from! And then once you know that, maybe just maybe, you will understand more of your Kitten. Just our Two cents Prism Collective — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: ***NOTICE: This post from me is _not_ a solicitation for opinions, advice or replys from Mr. Alan B. Mac Farlane. All other opinions, advice or replys are welcome.***
Response:
(Jackie) writes: . I am not in charge, I dont make the rules, I am not the newsgroup. I am not an endless well of kindness and wisdom and pateince, I get p*ssed off and when I do I try to be fair about whether I have cause. I consider k*lling and r*ping bad things. I say so. I analyse where bad things are coming from and I point them out. I was as harsh in analysing him as he’d been in analysing her. I reserve the right to be mean to ppl who are harming other people. Having s*x with and ab*sing alters whether or not it is good for them is wrong. Okay? Cardamom Nation of Jackie
good for you. you have the courage of your convictions. there is nothing worse than an abuser who believes himself/herself to be righteous. you have said what i would have said except that i am unable to deal with conflict, which i know is not particularly useful, but it’s where i’m at right now. verna
Response:
in this subject about his girfriend. He put a Fake ID on the header, thinking I could not find the right one, and he said he has the post removed. He also said he didn’t post this question to be flamed. I didn’t flame him! I wrote a very nice post, telling him what I thought he should do, but I guess he just wanted us all to cosign his BS. I really pitty his girlfriend, and I hope he doesn’t do more damange to her than has already been done! Sigh Prism Collective
Why I was harsh/why I remain harsh: 1.This group is for support of dd’s. I do not support ppl who harm DD’s. I felt he was harming and denigrating her system. 2.There was a previous post from JumptFromSky. In this post the man spoke of the same situation. Of having a girlfreind who has an alter he wishes to get rid of or disable. I wrote a response to this which was mildly harsh. I consider this "how do I get rid of so-and-so stuff" to be a) a death threat and b) a abuser/r*pist mentality of that the other person will remove herself from her body to accomodate your more important needs. 3. It may be that jumptfromsky and gketchem are not the same person. At the time, I thought they were. This is part of why midway through my response to gketcham I lost all politeness. I thought this person was twisting standard DID *helpful* techniques to *disempower* his gf and mess with her head to his advantage. I also thought he had written about this once before in less detail and ignored responses. I felt that he had ignored the responses and instead studied the ng to learn the "lingo" so that he could perform experiments with his gf’s mind, and that he was telling us what he had done with the info, all of which stuff he had done was *not good stuff*. 4. Why didnt he let his gf talk to us instead of him? Does she even know he is on the ng? Has he told her he is writing about her? It all seems very sneaky and controlling. 5. Mick and Prism Collective both wrote him pleasant replies. Prism collective was very direct and kind and suggested he get to know and love all of "his Kitten". Mick was very very honest and thoughtful and wrote a 318 line post which told him all sorts of stuff about how mick operates and what was useful to him, and what the useful headspace for a supportive SO might be. Neither mick nor Prism Collective wrote anything which: " verbally attacked, ridiculed, or lacerated with condescending personal attacks suggesting that I was not a sincere seeker of truth." No, that was all me. gketcham chose to ignore the two other replies he recieved, as well as Primroses ditto to Prism Collective. 7. I never suggested he was not a sincere seeker of truth. I suggested he was not her therapist, had a conflict of interest as to her welfare vs his needs, should consider the honest/respectfulnees of concealing the ng’s existence from her, that he was saying incredibly cruel and unhelpful things to her, that he was seperating her identities even more than she was, that he was not giving her the respect of listening to or understanding her or her concerns, that he could literally k*ll her playing around with her internal structure and implanting suggestions about who should go d*e now, that he should probably try to accept all parts of her as equally valuable, and that he should try to support her healing process instead of control it. Whether he is a sincere seeker of truth does not interest me. He wanted to see what those who might know thought and what advice they might have. What I knew was: You are causing harm. My advice was: Stop. I was not nice about it. I was not pleasant, I did not give him support. I didn’t want to. I don’t like people who control or half-k*ll people like me. I dont much care if they know it. At the beginning of the letter I was in fact trying very hard to be respectful and give him the benefit of the doubt. Round about the point where I responded to him telling another living being that he didnt like her arrogance ( your tires are over-inflated ) and should die because she is in his way ( you’ve outlived your usefulness ) and because he wanted to have s*x with the person she protects ( you are harming kitten by destroying her relationship with me ) I didnt want to give him the benefit of the doubt anymore. It was sleazy creepy and mean to say that stuff to her. It was ab*sive and it was self-serving and it was undermining the few protections that that particular child-abuse survivor had. Color me triggered. Call me a big meanie. Say I’m the big evil person who abuses others on the ng. I am not in charge, I dont make the rules, I am not the newsgroup. I am not an endless well of kindness and wisdom and pateince, I get p*ssed off and when I do I try to be fair about whether I have cause. I consider k*lling and r*ping bad things. I say so. I analyse where bad things are coming from and I point them out. I was as harsh in analysing him as he’d been in analysing her. I reserve the right to be mean to ppl who are harming other people. Having s*x with and ab*sing alters whether or not it is good for them is wrong. Okay? Cardamom Nation of Jackie
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