Question:
Bob, Of course she’s going to deny there is any problem. Her denial is irrelevant, since it’s clear that there is a serious problem here. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > Personally, I too feel the trauma from the whole years has a LOT to do with > this. She flatley says no. She says she she’s things so clearly now – like > never before, but won’t (can’t??) tell me what she see’s. I’ve been reading > some other topics in here especailly the one called facing seperation and > man, does that bring me down. > I am so scared and hurt. I love her soo much.
Response:
In article <91q916$11e…@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>, "Ian" <a…@anon.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In response to my apparently ill-considered post you sagely wrote: > just_m…@webtv.net wrote in message > <13898-3A403FD4-…@storefull-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net>… > >>The new underwear is a BAD sign, as is the > >>losing weight. Maybe these are to do with her > >>reaffirming her self-esteem, but they’re red flags > >>for at least preaffair behaviour! These guys can > >>affirm how beautiful she is, but I doubt they can > >>affirm how valuable she is as a person, which > >>you can do, as you really know her! > >Oh what a bunch of utter bullshit, Ian. > Which part? The bit about the underwear and losing weight, or the bit about > the probable difference in relationships? > You want a list of signs of having an affair? > Ian
I’ll take a stab at this, Ian. 1. You taste semen while performing cunnilingus on your wife, although you haven’t had sex with her in days. 2. You discover used condoms in your bed, although you never use condoms. 3. Your wife is pregnant, even though you have had a vasectomy. 4. You come back from a business trip to find your wife’s body covered with unexplained hickeys, rope burns, and finger-tip sized bruises. Would these qualify as potential red flags? — Man’s greatest joy is to slay his enemy, plunder his riches, ride his steeds, see the tears of his loved ones and ravish his women. – Genghis Khan http://www.xmasresistance.org/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Response:
Yes, your wife needs to see a psychiatrist. Many of them are not away for the holidays. They all use voice mail. You can get another referral for a psychiatrist from an M.D. if you have one. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > She talks (when I practically corner her into talking about this) and says > things like " this won’t hurt the kids unless you keep doing what you’re > doing" " you’ll still be a big part of the kids life" and " I still want/ > think we can be friends "…… all this sounds like she wants a divorce so > I (several times) say "do you want a divorce? is that what you’ve decided?" > No she says. Or she says " I’m not gonna commit (say) to anything becuase > you’ll just throw it back in my face in the future". > Last night she says " you ask too many questions, stop asking questions". > I say it’s hard because I feel I’m being lied to. She says " stop asking so > many questions then I wouldn’t have to lie to you". > I say " please understand how hard this is for me and where I’m coming from, > do I need to feel that I’m being lied to ?" > No she says, then gets upset that I asked that. > Allright I say. I have to take her at her word. She is SO not herself. > I said that to her this morning and her reply was " Yes I am. I’m back to > myself." > The way she’s been drinking, acting ( the way she acts is based on what I > witnessed at the party) totally unlike herself. In fact, the "loose talking" > (for lack of a better way to describe the way she was carrying on about her > boob story) is something that she never did, and never liked. She used to > dislike women like that. She was more "honorable" for lack of a better term. > That was part of what attracted me to her. She was very down to earth. > She says today that I was mean to her. That I hurt her plenty of times . The > implication being that what’s going on/ what she’s doing is fair. Or > justified or something. > Every little or not so little fight/argument/transgression in our > relationship is being focused on and brought up by her now. It’s as though > nothing good ever happened, certainly nothing great. She seems to be > painting the picture to me that she was under some spell, wasn’t > herself -that she put up with tons of shit from me and shouldn’t have. She > says what should have happened was that she should have cut me/us loose > years ago when some of the bad times/arguments happened but she didn’t. So > now she’s making up for lost time or something- that’s how it feels. > My response to her was " But you knew me/us, you took this on. You married > me after dating for 3 years. That’s not quite fair to quit now." > Anger at that. > I looked online about Post Traumatic Stress and indeed, many if not most of > the symtoms apply perfectly to her/this. This is so surreal. She gets me > questioning myself, my whole belief system- everything. I see no light at > the end of the tunnel. I had to pull teeth to get her to agree that some > guidelines should be set up for the seperation. This is so &*cked up! > I called the number of the psychiatrist/psychologist (?) that she was given > by a friend ( about a week ago she got this number, wrote it down and it has > sat on the kitchen table since then) to see how this all works, do we need a > referral etc. and to find out if she knows much about PTSD. I got an outo > voice mail that said just leave a message. I did, but since there was no > greeting I don’t even know if I’m calling the right number. I aslo know many > in their profession take more time off during holidays etc. so maybe this > woman is out till after the holidays?! > who knows…….. > "Karen Ronan" <ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu> wrote in message > news:91ljhd$3vv$4@carroll.library.ucla.edu… > > Bob–I think your wife is emotionally fragmenting due to TRAUMA. > > This is about your baby’s birth/surgery and her grandmother’s death. > > Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively > > (drinking, affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would > > get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is > > usually a therapist’s office. > > The anger is not really about you, but about this other stuff. > > She feels safe enough with you to project it all on you. > > Unfortunately, this isn’t a good thing to do, and she must > > stop doing it. > > She needs professional help to assist her in calming & managing her > > emotions. A therapist who is familiar with post-traumatic stress > > syndrome might be really good. > > Take care, > > Karen > > "Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > > > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt > be a > > > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 > kids. > > > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days > of > > > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his > head > > > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at > the > > > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes > pulled > > > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed > back > > > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > > > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the > end of > > > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a > non-compete > > > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress > that > > > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, > my > > > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > > > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work > friends > > > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that > day > > > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start > freaking > > > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I > try > > > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and > find > > > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. > I > > > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said > the > > > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about > the > > > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her > about > > > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > > > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks > would > > > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately > (a > > > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically > said > > > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind > of. > > > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > > > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for > her. > > > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I > see/feel > > > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > > > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work > "buddies" > > > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I > find > > > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays > it on > > > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > > > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have > to > > > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > > > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my > parents-crying my > > > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I > have > > > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > > > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the > 2 > > > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > > > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > > > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says > afterwords > > > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > > > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she > was > > > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping > out > > > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in > seconds/minutes. > > > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will > that > > > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > > > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in > somewhere > > > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first > time in > > > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > > > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? > I’d > > > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she > said > > > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That > was > > > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever > feel > > > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys > dream, > > > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > > > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of > times > > > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. > BUT, I > > > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > > > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > > > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > > > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants > to > > > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find > herself.
… read more »
Response:
>I think that it is pretty strange that a mother, >traumatized by a disease of her child that was >successfully treated, starts whoring around and >effectively abandons her family. I know that >Karen likes therapists, but really, there is no >basis for assuming that the poster’s wife is >suffering from some sort of a complicated >disorder. I think that she just found someone >else after she got bored with her husband. >igor
Igor, I personally detest therapists normally — but will concede they have their place. You think alot like my hmmmm–husband<almost> — totally black and white. That’s how you portray your thoughts anyway. 
Trauma can come back to haunt you 20 years later — after intensive therapy — for no reason — out of the blue — WHAM they are there. amy
Response:
>She wouldn’t be the first person to be having a >midlife crisis in her early 30’s.
My "practice" mid-life crisis happened at 28 — when I woke up one morning and realized I was going to be 29 which meant I was almost 30. And it was a MAJOR life-altering crisis! I am a woman though — so I can have more than one crisis, right? P.S. 30’s aren’t near as bad as I anticipated — but I do seem to have more hormonal upheaval than even my psychotic 20’s.
Response:
>The new underwear is a BAD sign, as is the >losing weight. Maybe these are to do with her >reaffirming her self-esteem, but they’re red flags >for at least preaffair behaviour! These guys can >affirm how beautiful she is, but I doubt they can >affirm how valuable she is as a person, which >you can do, as you really know her!
Oh what a bunch of utter bullshit, Ian.
Response:
In response to my apparently ill-considered post you sagely wrote: just_m…@webtv.net wrote in message
<13898-3A403FD4-…@storefull-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net>… >>The new underwear is a BAD sign, as is the >>losing weight. Maybe these are to do with her >>reaffirming her self-esteem, but they’re red flags >>for at least preaffair behaviour! These guys can >>affirm how beautiful she is, but I doubt they can >>affirm how valuable she is as a person, which >>you can do, as you really know her! >Oh what a bunch of utter bullshit, Ian.
Which part? The bit about the underwear and losing weight, or the bit about the probable difference in relationships? You want a list of signs of having an affair? Ian
Response:
Hi Amy, In reply to Igor, you wrote: >I personally detest therapists normally — but will concede they have >their place. You think alot like my hmmmm–husband<almost> — totally >black and white. That’s how you portray your thoughts anyway.
There’s a reason why many therapists think this way and it’s likely to do with their Personality Types. Particular PTs tend to be attracted to different professions, but my advice would be generally to go for a psychologist over a psychiatrist. >Trauma can come back to haunt you 20 years later — after intensive >therapy — for no reason — out of the blue — WHAM they are there. >amy
Yes, and I definitely think the trauma and the ongoing responsibility involved in this case are a lot of what has motivated Bob’s wife to reappraise her life in reaction, Regards, Ian
Response:
She talks (when I practically corner her into talking about this) and says things like " this won’t hurt the kids unless you keep doing what you’re doing" " you’ll still be a big part of the kids life" and " I still want/ think we can be friends "…… all this sounds like she wants a divorce so I (several times) say "do you want a divorce? is that what you’ve decided?" No she says. Or she says " I’m not gonna commit (say) to anything becuase you’ll just throw it back in my face in the future". Last night she says " you ask too many questions, stop asking questions". I say it’s hard because I feel I’m being lied to. She says " stop asking so many questions then I wouldn’t have to lie to you". I say " please understand how hard this is for me and where I’m coming from, do I need to feel that I’m being lied to ?" No she says, then gets upset that I asked that. Allright I say. I have to take her at her word. She is SO not herself. I said that to her this morning and her reply was " Yes I am. I’m back to myself." The way she’s been drinking, acting ( the way she acts is based on what I witnessed at the party) totally unlike herself. In fact, the "loose talking" (for lack of a better way to describe the way she was carrying on about her boob story) is something that she never did, and never liked. She used to dislike women like that. She was more "honorable" for lack of a better term. That was part of what attracted me to her. She was very down to earth. She says today that I was mean to her. That I hurt her plenty of times . The implication being that what’s going on/ what she’s doing is fair. Or justified or something. Every little or not so little fight/argument/transgression in our relationship is being focused on and brought up by her now. It’s as though nothing good ever happened, certainly nothing great. She seems to be painting the picture to me that she was under some spell, wasn’t herself -that she put up with tons of shit from me and shouldn’t have. She says what should have happened was that she should have cut me/us loose years ago when some of the bad times/arguments happened but she didn’t. So now she’s making up for lost time or something- that’s how it feels. My response to her was " But you knew me/us, you took this on. You married me after dating for 3 years. That’s not quite fair to quit now." Anger at that. I looked online about Post Traumatic Stress and indeed, many if not most of the symtoms apply perfectly to her/this. This is so surreal. She gets me questioning myself, my whole belief system- everything. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I had to pull teeth to get her to agree that some guidelines should be set up for the seperation. This is so &*cked up! I called the number of the psychiatrist/psychologist (?) that she was given by a friend ( about a week ago she got this number, wrote it down and it has sat on the kitchen table since then) to see how this all works, do we need a referral etc. and to find out if she knows much about PTSD. I got an outo voice mail that said just leave a message. I did, but since there was no greeting I don’t even know if I’m calling the right number. I aslo know many in their profession take more time off during holidays etc. so maybe this woman is out till after the holidays?! who knows…….. "Karen Ronan" <ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:91ljhd$3vv$4@carroll.library.ucla.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob–I think your wife is emotionally fragmenting due to TRAUMA. > This is about your baby’s birth/surgery and her grandmother’s death. > Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively > (drinking, affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would > get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is > usually a therapist’s office. > The anger is not really about you, but about this other stuff. > She feels safe enough with you to project it all on you. > Unfortunately, this isn’t a good thing to do, and she must > stop doing it. > She needs professional help to assist her in calming & managing her > emotions. A therapist who is familiar with post-traumatic stress > syndrome might be really good. > Take care, > Karen > "Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a > > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. > > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head > > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back > > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of > > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends > > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day > > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking > > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try > > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the > > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a > > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. > > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. > > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel > > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" > > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on > > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to > > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my > > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have > > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords > > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out > > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in seconds/minutes. > > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that > > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in somewhere > > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time in > > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? I’d > > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said > > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That was > > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel > > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys dream, > > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times > > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, I > > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to > > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find herself. > > We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as angry > > and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) > > Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many > > things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of the > > bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by > > putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another > > biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly > > existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I > > wanted to
… read more »
Response:
LOL! Too funny! "Oceanmomma" <oceanmo…@aol.comaol.como> wrote in message
news:20001218192432.28905.00005273@ng-cl1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For all male midlife crisis issues…contact U…@alreadyhadone.com
Response:
Hi Bob, I don’t have a lot to impart. It seems to me that you and your wife have both been through some horribly cathartic experiences (worrying about the mortality of your child is just indescribable torture), and have dealt with it in different ways, rather than pulling together. I don’t know about midlife crisis in your wife’s case. It could be, but it’s early, but it sounds more like her venting her pent up depression and frustration. Somehow, you have to become part of the solution and not part of the problem. The new underwear is a BAD sign, as is the losing weight. Maybe these are to do with her reaffirming her self-esteem, but they’re red flags for at least preaffair behaviour! These guys can affirm how beautiful she is, but I doubt they can affirm how valuable she is as a person, which you can do, as you really know her! Somehow you have to draw her out, find time with her, and get her to open up to you. Even her re-emerging sexuality doesn’t have to be a problem, but she needs to see you as a lover, not just a "husband" and "father." My father died of rheumatoid arthritis and it took decades, but the final years were truly awful. There is NO reason why she should get it. Has she even been tested for the rheumatic factor? If she doesn’t have it, she won’t get it, but chances are, she won’t anyway. Also, they’re well on the way to some sort of genetic cure, so if she gets it in old age, then it may be no problem. Who knows if any of us will make it that far anyway? The thing about marriage is that it does imply at least an (probably boring) obligation to try to work things out. Please try to discourage her from moving out, even if you have to work things out differently. It’s highly unlikely that any one of those other guys really cares about her, though I do understand some of what is motivating her. If she can stand where she is for a while, things will get better… Nothing very useful, sorry about that, but best wishes to you both anyway, Ian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob Thomas wrote: > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in seconds/minutes. > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in somewhere > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time in > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? I’d > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That was > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys dream, > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, I > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find herself. > We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as angry > and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) > Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many > things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of the > bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by > putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another > biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly > existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I > wanted to be happy, wanted the great relationship but I didn’t truly > understand or KNOW what those words meant. Better yet ( or worse- depends > which way you look at it) I couldn’t visualize those things. This whole > event that is still ongoing feels like a 2×4 that smacked into my head and > knocked loose a filter or something that was there. If, there is any good to > come of all this, I know already that that is it. My family knows that too > as I’ve leaned on them and am now showing them"me" and communicating with > them- which doesn’t hurt like I maybe thought it would. It feeels good > actually. Where was i….enopugh about me I guess. Us- sure, we’ve had our > problems, I felt things weren’t right for a while but I alway thought that > that was a casualty of buying houses, kids, careers, etc. that we’d get back > to us in a while once the kids got a little bigger(and easier). I thought > we’d have a lifetime to continue working on us and ourselves. I took her and > her love SO for granted.I took a lot for granted. I was SO comfortable. WTF > was wrong with me? Everything I took for granted has been ripped out from > under. She says to me " I told you- I told you that if you didn’t pay > attention someone elso will", or " I told you I’d put up with your shit for > only so long and then I’d have enough and move on"- She did say these > things. She said them in the middle or tail end of a fight/argument as > she/we said anything. Since all this I’ve said to her that that’s true -you > did say those things but as I’ve always said to her, communicating during a > fight isn’t really communicating. She (as of yesterday) still beleives it > is. She thinks it’s a fine method and time to communicate. It isn’t. We both > get stubborn when mad, but she’s always been more stubborn than me when mad. > In the past we’d have a fight and some shitty hthings would be said on both > sides but after the fight everything was always back to " normal" -whatever > that is/was- and it was all smiles, and talk of the future etc. etc. > I forgot to mention this as I think it has something to do with all this. > She is the skinniest she has ever been since 17. She has lost all the baby > weight and then some. She’s down almost to double digits now. I mention this > because ……how to say this.. It feels now like it’s all about her.
… read more »
Response:
She could be suffering from PTSD (Post traumatic Stress Disorder) She has been through an emotional ringer for the last 6-7 months.. and if things at home were not that great either.. she could be acting out.. because she cant deal with it anymore. Kass "Igor" <i…@algebra.com> wrote in message
news:slrn93sq92.udo.igor@manifold.algebra.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think that it is pretty strange that a mother, traumatized by a disease > of her child that was successfully treated, starts whoring around and > effectively abandons her family. I know that Karen likes therapists, > but really, there is no basis for assuming that the poster’s wife is > suffering from some sort of a complicated disorder. I think that she > just found someone else after she got bored with her husband. > igor > CJMorgan59 <cjmorga…@aol.com> wrote: > * "Bob Thomas" nos…@nosp.com wrote: > * >I guess if there is a question here it’s this: Is this a midlife crisis for > * >her? It sure feels like it. At 32 though? > * > * She wouldn’t be the first person to be having a midlife crisis in her early > * 30’s. > * > * But regardless of the label used, there is a crisis going on with her. And all > * the stressful factors you’ve described, if not the source of the problem, are > * most certainly strong contributing factors. > * > * Is she herself? Well, she’s not her regular self and the person you’re seeing > * now is like a spinning top, wound too tight and now reportedly starting to spin > * out of control. > * > * Karen Ronan said something in this thread which begs repeating: > * > * "Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively (drinking, > * affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would > * get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is usually a therapist’s > * office." > * > * The suggestion in that is the soundest piece of counsel I’m betting you’re > * going to get on this matter. > * > * Please consider it seriously and with the strongest possible conviction. > * > * CJ > — > *********************************************************************** > Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com > Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems > ***********************************************************************
Response:
Karen wrote: >> "Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively (drinking, >> affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would >> get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is usually a therapist’s >> office." CJ wrote: >> The suggestion in that is the soundest piece of counsel I’m betting you’re >> going to get on this matter. >> Please consider it seriously and with the strongest possible conviction. "Bob Thomas" nos…@nosp.com wrote: >Yes, I know and have told her that she should see someone. She agreed but >hasn’t done too much about it. She has gotten a name of someone though.
And that’s it? Good God man, if I found my wife had time for drinking but no time to make arrangements to see the therapist, I myself would be hopping mad. This is, after all, somebody that I care about, and it would anger me to watch her acting out self-destructively. And I’d have no qualms about expressing that directly. Sometimes when we care about a person, we do get angry at them. And while they might not be thrilled with our anger, at the very least, at some level or another, they recognize that they are being cared about. So I would suggest your persuasion in this matter become more intense. Talking things out with a therapist rather than acting out self-destructively is not only something I see as being in her best interest, but I imagine it’s in your best interest as well. ********** >Is it me in my state or is Igor almost rude in his/her responses? cynical? >Igor’s last response hurts a bit, I think.
Igor may have been blunt, but in as much as I have found him to be generally good natured, I don’t imagine his intention was to be rude. For whatever that might be worth. CJ
Response:
Hi Bob and Igor, Igor wrote: > I think that it is pretty strange that a mother, traumatized by a disease > of her child that was successfully treated, starts whoring around and > effectively abandons her family.
No not unusual at all, and all pretty life-affirming, but also a bit self-destructive at the same time. I really think these events have caused her to reassess, but she seems to be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," rather than trying to hang onto the good things, while moving ahead with the rest of her life. Bob sounds like a caring, considerate husband and father, and not a big obstacle to what she wants to do with her life (apart from maybe play around, if she decides on that). She could lose him and regret it later: I’m seeing a bit of this at the moment. I don’t think she needs to get away from Bob so much as a lot of other things, and I can sympathise with that, Cheers, Ian
Response:
i…@algebra.com (Igor) wrote: >Okay, I guess we are now playing a game of guesses, so let me throw >in my own hypothesis. >I think that Bob basically is a good guy, but he did not give his wife >enough attention and perhaps did not handle her extra weight gracefully. >And maybe she felt a little trapped, unfree and resentful.
I don’t know about the weight issue, but by his own reports, he had somewhat taken his marriage for granted. As for her feeling trapped, unfree and resentful, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you’re correct here, although I imagine that she didn’t speak up often enough and silently keep a great deal of it to herself (we can’t be held fully accountable if your spouse expects us to be a mindreader). Yes, yes, she did speak up. But I’m suggesting not often enough. That is to say, I wouldn’t be surprised if we learned she expected a certain amount of mindreading from him. ********* >Then she lost her weight and was enjoying new found freedom and beauty and >attention. And perthaps she got carried away, I think too far.
The lost weight is one of the cues that this has much more than just someone who’s bored with her husband. ******** >I have hard times believing that a sick child could inflict something >like this on the mother.
Perhaps not in and of itself, but otherwise consider it as just one in a cluster of contributing stress factors which have all come together in the past number of months. From the report given, there were a number of stressful events all going on at the same time in the lives of these folks, the concern for their infants well being just being one of them. CJ
Response:
For all male midlife crisis issues…contact U…@alreadyhadone.com
Response:
Thanks Karen, oddly, some of the things she has said lately include the fact that she feels guilty about him, that she still isn’t there for him (the baby), yet as she says this I wonder "then how can you be going out more etc. etc." She definatley has expressed things like this, not only for him but our girl too….. "James and Karen" <james.stew…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:X5v%5.503$D6.25520@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I feel that she is reacting to the baby and all the troublet that you have > had with this baby. She needs to talk to someone about it and get rid of > these feelings that she is holding inside. For her to be running around > after work with a bunch of co-workers instead of coming right home to see > her little baby, she is likely feeling responsible for the baby’s problems. > She is the mother after all and women tend to blame themselves for what > happens to their babies. We feel that maybe we shouldn’t have take some > pill or eaten some food that caused the problem with the baby, when that is > God’s act and not our fault. I think she is blaming herself for your > baby’s problems. She needs to see a counsilor or some sort to talk about > what is on her mind. She needs to get rid of any feelings of guilt that > might be making her act this way. If she feels that is was her fault, she > might be drinking and becoming " irresponsible" with her life because she > felt that was how she behaved when she was pregnant. > This is just a suggestion, but have her see someone, if you can get her > to. Under the circumstances it may be diificult but try, if you love her > and want her back in your life then tell her, before she does something > stupid, when she is drinking one of these nights. > Karen > "Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> wrote in message > news:t3si4qfvdup1c4@corp.supernews.com… > > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be > a > > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 > kids. > > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his > head > > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed > back > > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end > of > > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work > friends > > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that > day > > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start > freaking > > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I > try > > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said > the > > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately > (a > > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind > of. > > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for > her. > > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I > see/feel > > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work > "buddies" > > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it > on > > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have > to > > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying > my > > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I > have > > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says > afterwords > > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping > out > > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in > seconds/minutes. > > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that > > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in > somewhere > > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time > in > > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? > I’d > > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said > > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That > was > > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel > > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys > dream, > > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times > > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, > I > > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to > > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find > herself. > > We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as > angry > > and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) > > Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many > > things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of > the > > bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by > > putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another > > biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly > > existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I > > wanted to be happy, wanted the great relationship but I didn’t truly > > understand or KNOW what those words meant. Better yet ( or worse- depends > > which way you look at it) I couldn’t visualize those things. This whole > > event that is still ongoing feels like a 2×4 that smacked into my head and > > knocked loose a filter or something that was there. If, there is any good > to > > come of all this, I know already that that is it. My family knows that too > > as I’ve leaned on them and am now showing them"me" and communicating with > > them- which doesn’t hurt like I maybe thought it would. It feeels good > > actually. Where was i….enopugh about me I guess. Us- sure, we’ve had our > > problems, I felt things weren’t right for a while but I alway thought that > > that was a casualty of buying houses, kids, careers, etc. that we’d get > back > > to us in a while once the kids got a little bigger(and easier). I thought > > we’d have a lifetime to continue working on us and ourselves. I took her > and > > her love SO for granted.I took a lot for granted. I was SO comfortable. > WTF > > was wrong with me? Everything I took for granted has been ripped out from > > under. She says to me " I told you- I told you that if you didn’t pay > > attention someone elso will", or " I told you I’d put up with your shit > for > > only so long and then I’d have enough and move on"- She did say these > > things. She said them in the middle or tail end of a fight/argument as > > she/we said anything. Since all this I’ve said to her that that’s > true -you > > did say those things but as I’ve always said to her, communicating during > a > > fight isn’t really communicating. She (as of yesterday) still beleives it > > is. She thinks it’s a fine method and time to communicate. It isn’t. We > both > > get stubborn when mad, but she’s always been more stubborn than me when > mad. > > In the past we’d have a fight and some shitty hthings would be said on > both > > sides but after the fight everything was always back to " > normal" -whatever > > that is/was- and it was all smiles, and talk of the future etc. etc. > > I forgot to mention this as I think it has something to do with all this. > > She is the skinniest she has ever been since 17. She has lost all the baby > > weight and then some.
… read more »
Response:
Bob–I think your wife is emotionally fragmenting due to TRAUMA. This is about your baby’s birth/surgery and her grandmother’s death. Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively (drinking, affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is usually a therapist’s office. The anger is not really about you, but about this other stuff. She feels safe enough with you to project it all on you. Unfortunately, this isn’t a good thing to do, and she must stop doing it. She needs professional help to assist her in calming & managing her emotions. A therapist who is familiar with post-traumatic stress syndrome might be really good. Take care, Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in seconds/minutes. > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in somewhere > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time in > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? I’d > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That was > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys dream, > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, I > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find herself. > We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as angry > and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) > Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many > things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of the > bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by > putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another > biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly > existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I > wanted to be happy, wanted the great relationship but I didn’t truly > understand or KNOW what those words meant. Better yet ( or worse- depends > which way you look at it) I couldn’t visualize those things. This whole > event that is still ongoing feels like a 2×4 that smacked into my head and > knocked loose a filter or something that was there. If, there is any good to > come of all this, I know already that that is it. My family knows that too > as I’ve leaned on them and am now showing them"me" and communicating with > them- which doesn’t hurt like I maybe thought it would. It feeels good > actually. Where was i….enopugh about me I guess. Us- sure, we’ve had our > problems, I felt things weren’t right for a while but I alway thought that > that was a casualty of buying houses, kids, careers, etc. that we’d get back > to us in a while once the kids got a little bigger(and easier). I thought > we’d have a lifetime to continue working on us and ourselves. I took her and > her love SO for granted.I took a lot for granted. I was SO comfortable. WTF > was wrong with me? Everything I took for granted has been ripped out from > under. She says to me " I told you- I told you that if you didn’t pay > attention someone elso will", or " I told you I’d put up with your shit for > only so long and then I’d have enough and move on"- She did say these > things. She said them in the middle or tail end of a fight/argument as > she/we said anything. Since all this I’ve said to her that that’s true -you > did say those things but as I’ve always said to her, communicating during a > fight isn’t really communicating. She (as of yesterday) still beleives it > is. She thinks it’s a fine method and time to communicate. It isn’t. We both > get stubborn when mad, but she’s always been more stubborn than me when mad. > In the past we’d have a fight and some shitty hthings would be said on both > sides but after the fight everything was always back to " normal" -whatever > that is/was- and it was all smiles, and talk of the future etc. etc. > I forgot to mention this as I think it has something to do with all this. > She is the skinniest she has ever been since 17. She has lost all the baby > weight and then some. She’s down almost to double digits now. I mention this > because ……how to say this.. It feels now like it’s all about her. She’s > getting new cloths, wants to look great ( I’m complimenting left and right- > not over doing it at all- just appropriately complimenting her- she does > deserve it too.) > As she said in one fo the talks that first weekend- " I like going out and > want to go out with my friends from work because it’s peace and happiness- I > don’t worry about a relationship". Again, I don’t know if I told her or not- > that sounds like escape- like denial to me. Definately not to her though. I > know that. > 2 days ago we go to a hotel for her work party. She’s in a new dress, I have > new duds.The plan was that we’d fake it or whatever- just to have a good > time together. I can live with that. That’s all I wanted too. Drinks start > flowing. We are mingling then it’s her, me and 2 guys she works with- one > who looks at noone but her- even when his wife is there- she says" hey you > want to hear my boob story" well of course they did. Minutes later it’s me , > her and 2 other guys- one being her manager ( who I originally suspected was > the "client") and she repeates her story of taping up her boobs- but not > covering the nipples – so they show better, nipples especially. You see, as > a husband, let alone a boyfreind or a date, that was wierd
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Response:
I feel that she is reacting to the baby and all the troublet that you have had with this baby. She needs to talk to someone about it and get rid of these feelings that she is holding inside. For her to be running around after work with a bunch of co-workers instead of coming right home to see her little baby, she is likely feeling responsible for the baby’s problems. She is the mother after all and women tend to blame themselves for what happens to their babies. We feel that maybe we shouldn’t have take some pill or eaten some food that caused the problem with the baby, when that is God’s act and not our fault. I think she is blaming herself for your baby’s problems. She needs to see a counsilor or some sort to talk about what is on her mind. She needs to get rid of any feelings of guilt that might be making her act this way. If she feels that is was her fault, she might be drinking and becoming " irresponsible" with her life because she felt that was how she behaved when she was pregnant. This is just a suggestion, but have her see someone, if you can get her to. Under the circumstances it may be diificult but try, if you love her and want her back in your life then tell her, before she does something stupid, when she is drinking one of these nights. Karen "Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> wrote in message
news:t3si4qfvdup1c4@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in seconds/minutes. > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in somewhere > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time in > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? I’d > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That was > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys dream, > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, I > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find herself. > We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as angry > and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) > Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many > things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of the > bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by > putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another > biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly > existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I > wanted to be happy, wanted the great relationship but I didn’t truly > understand or KNOW what those words meant. Better yet ( or worse- depends > which way you look at it) I couldn’t visualize those things. This whole > event that is still ongoing feels like a 2×4 that smacked into my head and > knocked loose a filter or something that was there. If, there is any good to > come of all this, I know already that that is it. My family knows that too > as I’ve leaned on them and am now showing them"me" and communicating with > them- which doesn’t hurt like I maybe thought it would. It feeels good > actually. Where was i….enopugh about me I guess. Us- sure, we’ve had our > problems, I felt things weren’t right for a while but I alway thought that > that was a casualty of buying houses, kids, careers, etc. that we’d get back > to us in a while once the kids got a little bigger(and easier). I thought > we’d have a lifetime to continue working on us and ourselves. I took her and > her love SO for granted.I took a lot for granted. I was SO comfortable. WTF > was wrong with me? Everything I took for granted has been ripped out from > under. She says to me " I told you- I told you that if you didn’t pay > attention someone elso will", or " I told you I’d put up with your shit for > only so long and then I’d have enough and move on"- She did say these > things. She said them in the middle or tail end of a fight/argument as > she/we said anything. Since all this I’ve said to her that that’s true -you > did say those things but as I’ve always said to her, communicating during a > fight isn’t really communicating. She (as of yesterday) still beleives it > is. She thinks it’s a fine method and time to communicate. It isn’t. We both > get stubborn when mad, but she’s always been more stubborn than me when mad. > In the past we’d have a fight and some shitty hthings would be said on both > sides but after the fight everything was always back to " normal" -whatever > that is/was- and it was all smiles, and talk of the future etc. etc. > I forgot to mention this as I think it has something to do with all this. > She is the skinniest she has ever been since 17. She has lost all the baby > weight and then some. She’s down almost to double digits now. I mention this > because ……how to say this.. It feels now like it’s all about her. She’s > getting new cloths, wants to look great ( I’m complimenting left and right- > not over doing it at all- just appropriately complimenting her- she does > deserve it too.) > As she said in one fo the talks that first weekend- " I like going out and > want to go out with my friends from work because it’s peace and happiness- I > don’t worry about a relationship". Again, I don’t know if I told her or not- > that sounds like escape- like denial to me. Definately not to her though. I > know that. > 2 days ago we go to a hotel for her work party. She’s in a new dress, I have > new duds.The plan was that we’d fake it or whatever- just to
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Response:
For what it’s worth, if anything, here’s something my sister said to me: Ya know Bob this is enough to drive a person crazy. In my opinion it is extremely unfair for S. to not discuss this all with you. By not talking it is a way of not dealing with it and it is making things worse and dragging them out. I know though that while you want to talk about it you’re afraid of what she’ll say and kinda don’t want to talk about it yourself— but, how can you be expected to wait around and drive yourself nuts with these paranoid thoughts— wondering as the one response said— what she’s doing and who she’s doing it with… I know that right now she is reveling in her new found self (thin "sexy" body) and she is enjoying a form of attention she has not received in years, if ever…. The desire for that attention is not going to go away anytime soon I’d be willing to bet. The frustrating thing for me is that there are millions of other thin attractive women out there who look in the mirror and feel extremely attractive and invincible (as I’m certain this makes S. feel, which gives her the outlook that she doesn’t have to put up with anyones shit– she can do as she pleases cuz there’s all kinds of people out there she can have… which may or may not be true) and are able to take it in stride and set aside the ego. To be so entirely self absorbed is setting herself up for disaster because see…. one day this body WILL go away and where will she gain her strength from then?? One day she will be old and flabby and have gray hair and wrinkles and there is no escaping it so to rely on this outward appearance for her strength is unsettling and somewhat sad to me. I definitely like to look good and I’m not the best at setting aside my ego and just "be" but I also realize that there is much much more to life than a new outfit and being the best looking woman at a party…. I hope S. recognizes this and gets over this at some point before it’s too late. I cannot forsee how she will do this though. Talking to someone might help, or it might not. It may be entirely personal and a revelation she’lI have to make alone. I think the best thing would be for the both of you to seek counseling TOGETHER. But, will she do this??? It is very frustrating for me as it most definitely is for you to feel like she won’t even TRY to save this marriage. By saying you just don’t get her and then being unwilling to expand on this is selfish. To say that she see’s everything so clearly and then not expand on this is selfish. To hold your hand and play the game of being a happy couple at the party (so everyone else can see this) and then not show you affection while you’re alone is extremely selfish. I am not trying to knock her, just stating the obvious. DON’T PRINT THIS ONE THOUGH don’t need to have me factor into her negativity with you and a life with you…. Anyway, I am rambling and rambling and not providing much insight I know but I’m not sure what to say. Right now it seems she’s looking for fun as opposed to a great husband which leaves you with not a lot of options. You are a great husband right now and will continue to be (whether that’s with her or someone else in the future) you have changed and the change is forever. That strength, devotion, caring and love is all you can give right now— she won’t accept anything more. Even with your flirting and attention at the party she was unwilling to accept that on a deeper level and acknowledge what that could mean to your marriage and future (at least up to this point it doesn’t seem she see’s it– she might in the future) She’ll accept with open arms flirting and attention from other men– just not you (or i should say she’ll accept it, but won’t appreciate it from you, and from just you isn’t satisfying enough for her) she’s craving attention and until this craving passes you have definitely got the lower hand…. it sucks I know but it is all the more reason why you guys may require counseling– these things have to be discussed. In the mean time as I’ve said before make the best of this and look as far inside yourself as you can to see what BOB feels. That si important too even though it seems to be on the backburner these days. What do you want— more likely than not even when/if S. gets past this she will retain some of this "new" her and you need to acknowledge this and recognize what a future with her as your wife would entail…. I don’t get what another guy could give her that you can’t — any relationship will have down times— can she continue to run away? Or should you guys work on it– seek counseling explore all the options before severing ties and making extremely drastic decisions that may be regretted later…. blah blah blah — nothing new from this end. I know it’s more painful for you, but this is definitely affecting me as well. I’m feeling angry with her and sad for everyone involved– but it’s not the end- the future will ensure a level of happiness better than ever because adversity creates an appreciation for simplicity and it provides depth to ones understanding of what life means. The old yin/yang thing… someday this will all be over and you will be able to look back, reflect and appreciate how the changes ahave made you a stronger, more complete individual…. "Karen Ronan" <ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:91ljhd$3vv$4@carroll.library.ucla.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob–I think your wife is emotionally fragmenting due to TRAUMA. > This is about your baby’s birth/surgery and her grandmother’s death. > Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively > (drinking, affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would > get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is > usually a therapist’s office. > The anger is not really about you, but about this other stuff. > She feels safe enough with you to project it all on you. > Unfortunately, this isn’t a good thing to do, and she must > stop doing it. > She needs professional help to assist her in calming & managing her > emotions. A therapist who is familiar with post-traumatic stress > syndrome might be really good. > Take care, > Karen > "Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a > > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. > > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head > > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back > > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of > > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends > > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day > > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking > > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try > > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the > > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a > > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. > > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. > > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel > > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" > > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on > > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to > > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my > > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have > > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords > > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out > > at me. Like storms across
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Response:
Yes, I know and have told her that she should see someone. She agreed but hasn’t done too much about it. She has gotten a name of someone though. Is it me in my state or is Igor almost rude in his/her responses? cynical? Igor’s last response hurts a bit, I think. "CJMorgan59" <cjmorga…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001218141359.29564.00004199@ng-xb1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Bob Thomas" nos…@nosp.com wrote: > >I guess if there is a question here it’s this: Is this a midlife crisis for > >her? It sure feels like it. At 32 though? > She wouldn’t be the first person to be having a midlife crisis in her early > 30’s. > But regardless of the label used, there is a crisis going on with her. And all > the stressful factors you’ve described, if not the source of the problem, are > most certainly strong contributing factors. > Is she herself? Well, she’s not her regular self and the person you’re seeing > now is like a spinning top, wound too tight and now reportedly starting to spin > out of control. > Karen Ronan said something in this thread which begs repeating: > "Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively (drinking, > affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would > get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is usually a therapist’s > office." > The suggestion in that is the soundest piece of counsel I’m betting you’re > going to get on this matter. > Please consider it seriously and with the strongest possible conviction. > CJ
Response:
I think that it is pretty strange that a mother, traumatized by a disease of her child that was successfully treated, starts whoring around and effectively abandons her family. I know that Karen likes therapists, but really, there is no basis for assuming that the poster’s wife is suffering from some sort of a complicated disorder. I think that she just found someone else after she got bored with her husband. igor CJMorgan59 <cjmorga…@aol.com> wrote:
* "Bob Thomas" nos…@nosp.com wrote: * >I guess if there is a question here it’s this: Is this a midlife crisis for * >her? It sure feels like it. At 32 though? * * She wouldn’t be the first person to be having a midlife crisis in her early * 30’s. * * But regardless of the label used, there is a crisis going on with her. And all * the stressful factors you’ve described, if not the source of the problem, are * most certainly strong contributing factors. * * Is she herself? Well, she’s not her regular self and the person you’re seeing * now is like a spinning top, wound too tight and now reportedly starting to spin * out of control. * * Karen Ronan said something in this thread which begs repeating: * * "Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively (drinking, * affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would * get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is usually a therapist’s * office." * * The suggestion in that is the soundest piece of counsel I’m betting you’re * going to get on this matter. * * Please consider it seriously and with the strongest possible conviction. * * CJ — *********************************************************************** Do your algebra homework at http://www.algebra.com Solve: x^2+4x+3=0 Plot: y=3*sin(x^2) Ask Questions Word Problems ***********************************************************************
Response:
"Bob Thomas" nos…@nosp.com wrote: >I guess if there is a question here it’s this: Is this a midlife crisis for >her? It sure feels like it. At 32 though?
She wouldn’t be the first person to be having a midlife crisis in her early 30’s. But regardless of the label used, there is a crisis going on with her. And all the stressful factors you’ve described, if not the source of the problem, are most certainly strong contributing factors. Is she herself? Well, she’s not her regular self and the person you’re seeing now is like a spinning top, wound too tight and now reportedly starting to spin out of control. Karen Ronan said something in this thread which begs repeating: "Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively (drinking, affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is usually a therapist’s office." The suggestion in that is the soundest piece of counsel I’m betting you’re going to get on this matter. Please consider it seriously and with the strongest possible conviction. CJ
Response:
Personally, I too feel the trauma from the whole years has a LOT to do with this. She flatley says no. She says she she’s things so clearly now – like never before, but won’t (can’t??) tell me what she see’s. I’ve been reading some other topics in here especailly the one called facing seperation and man, does that bring me down. I am so scared and hurt. I love her soo much. "Karen Ronan" <ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:91ljhd$3vv$4@carroll.library.ucla.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob–I think your wife is emotionally fragmenting due to TRAUMA. > This is about your baby’s birth/surgery and her grandmother’s death. > Sometimes people react to trauma by acting out destructively > (drinking, affairs, sabotaging their marriage) when they would > get better by talking about it in a safe place, which is > usually a therapist’s office. > The anger is not really about you, but about this other stuff. > She feels safe enough with you to project it all on you. > Unfortunately, this isn’t a good thing to do, and she must > stop doing it. > She needs professional help to assist her in calming & managing her > emotions. A therapist who is familiar with post-traumatic stress > syndrome might be really good. > Take care, > Karen > "Bob Thomas" <nos…@nosp.com> writes: > > Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a > > novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. > > Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of > > ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head > > fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the > > end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled > > forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back > > together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since > > march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of > > summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete > > till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that > > that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my > > wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in > > November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends > > for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day > > though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking > > out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try > > calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find > > out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I > > leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the > > battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the > > kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about > > my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about > > us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would > > start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a > > lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said > > that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. > > Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get > > back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. > > She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel > > somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask > > about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" > > ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find > > this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on > > me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and > > nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to > > explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before > > thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my > > heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have > > been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we > > intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 > > families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m > > crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it > > would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords > > " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . > > Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was > > replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out > > at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in seconds/minutes. > > This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that > > that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. > > OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in somewhere > > around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time in > > our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). > > That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? I’d > > said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said > > the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That was > > a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel > > anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys dream, > > right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I > > wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times > > think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, I > > would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle > > with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured > > that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first > > time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to > > seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find herself. > > We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as angry > > and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) > > Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many > > things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of the > > bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by > > putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another > > biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly > > existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I > > wanted to be happy, wanted the great relationship but I didn’t truly > > understand or KNOW what those words meant. Better yet ( or worse- depends > > which way you look at it) I couldn’t visualize those things. This whole > > event that is still ongoing feels like a 2×4 that smacked into my head and > > knocked loose a filter or something that was there. If, there is any good to > > come of all this, I know already that that is it. My family knows that too > > as I’ve leaned on them and am now showing them"me" and communicating with > > them- which doesn’t hurt like I maybe thought it would. It feeels good > > actually. Where was i….enopugh about me I guess. Us- sure, we’ve had our > > problems, I felt things weren’t right for a while but I alway thought that > > that was a casualty of buying houses, kids, careers, etc. that we’d get back > > to us in a while once the kids got a little bigger(and easier). I thought > > we’d have a lifetime to continue working on us and ourselves. I took her and > > her love SO for granted.I took a lot for granted. I was SO comfortable. WTF > > was wrong with me? Everything I took for granted has been ripped out from > > under. She says to me " I told you- I told you that if you didn’t pay > > attention someone elso will", or " I told you I’d put up with your shit for > > only so long and then I’d have enough and move on"- She did say these > > things. She said them in the middle or tail end of a fight/argument as > > she/we said anything. Since all this I’ve said to her that that’s true -you > > did say those things but as I’ve always said to her, communicating during a > > fight isn’t really communicating. She (as of yesterday) still beleives it > > is. She thinks it’s a fine method and time to communicate. It isn’t. We both > > get stubborn when mad, but she’s always been more stubborn than me when mad. > > In the past we’d have a fight and some shitty hthings would be said on both > > sides but after the fight everything was always back to " normal" -whatever > > that is/was- and it was all smiles, and talk of the future etc. etc. > > I forgot to mention this as I think it has something to do with all this. > > She is the skinniest she has ever been since 17. She has lost all the baby > > weight and then some. She’s down almost to double digits now. I mention this > > because ……how to say this.. It feels now like it’s all about her. She’s > > getting new cloths, wants to look great ( I’m complimenting left and right- > > not over doing it at all- just appropriately complimenting her- she does > > deserve it too.) > > As she said in one fo the talks that first weekend- " I like going out and > > want to go out with my friends from work because it’s peace and happiness- I > > don’t worry about a relationship". Again, I don’t know if I told her or not- > > that sounds like escape- like denial to me. Definately not to her though. I > > know that. > > 2
… read more »
Response:
Hi, I wasn’t going to do this (post) but here goes. This will no doubt be a novel. I am 31 yr old male, married for 4 years, we met 7 years ago. 2 kids. Second kid just born this march -emegency C section followed by 5 days of ICU for him, followed by the realization that he had the plates in his head fuse together too soon so it would require surgery. Which happened at the end of August- an all day ordeal- cut from ear to ear, skin & eyes pulled forward, skull cut out, broken into 50 pieces reshaped and all screwed back together. Also, during the summer ( the whole year seemed on hold since march 14 when he was born as we waited for the surgery to come at the end of summer) my wife was out of work for 3 months- being held to a non-compete till the lawyers settled it. I mention this for the financial stress that that also threw at us this year. Then, the last straw as I think of it, my wife’s grandma who she was very close to dies on 10/28. I go hunting in November and knew that she (wife) was planning a night ut with work friends for that friday night. I knew this for weeks. Sitting in the woods that day though a feeling/dread overcame me like nothing before and I start freaking out, feeling insecure, feeling something was going on or gonna happen. I try calling her and her cell is off (very rarely off) I call her mom and find out her mom picked up the kids becuase she went out straight from work. I leave her a voice mail. I have to try and shorten some of this- she said the battery was low so she was conserving it in case her mom called about the kids. Fine. We don’t end up talking till the next day and I tell her about my sudden fears/insecurity- that I was afraid she’d start talking about us/me or just start talking in general with someone and then sparks would start to fly etc because she’d started going out for a beer a lot lately (a lot being a few times since it never happend before)…She basically said that wasn’t the case or something. Days went by and I "calmed down" kind of. Started thinking I’d just over-reacted. It’s time to go back home, I get back in town a few hours early , get the kids from daycare and wait for her. She gets home around usual time but instantly when our eyes meet I see/feel somethings not right. We start talking . She smells of alcohol so I ask about it- Yes , she left work early to go for a beer with her work "buddies" ( she almost never is allowed or willing to leave early from work). I find this out and it hurts. Why on my first night back I ask? Then she lays it on me – we need to seperate. I was out drinking because I was scared and nervouse about this talk- she says. PAIN,fear,pain- I guess I don’t have to explain all those emotions and feelings.This is the night before thanksgiving. We talk for 4 hours till I leave to go to my parents-crying my heart out-in fact I didn’t know I was able to cry as much as often as I have been since this. I tell my parents. the rest of the weekend we intermittently talk- in between putting on a game face of sorts for the 2 families for thanksgiving dinners thurs. and friday. She’s crying, I’m crying she holds me some, I hold her some. She says she never thought it would be this bad. Sunday night I make out with her nad she says afterwords " how come you haven’t done that more often?" . Thats’ the last I’ve seen of my wife. Since waking up the next day she was replaced by the most angry woman I’ve ever seen. Tons of anger. Seeping out at me. Like storms across her face it would come and go in seconds/minutes. This isn’t and won;t affect the kids she says. I say it does/is/will that that sounds like denial to me- ANGER. OOps, this is being inserted up here because I forgot to put it in somewhere around here- Another HUGE revalation from her was that for the first time in our relationship, she felt attracted to someone else(a client she says). That had been something I was asking/wondering. Is there another person? I’d said. No was her response the first 2 days. Then crying and upset she said the above- that she was jsut too honest- she couldn’t not tell me. That was a ton of bricks. You see, she has always told me that she didn’t ever feel anything at all for other guys. I wanted to beleive that- hell a guys dream, right?- but privately I thought maybe she was just comforting me- but I wouldn’t have minded since I always look at other women and lots of times think" hmmm… I’d like to have some of that"…if you get my drift. BUT, I would NEVER act on it. In fact I figured that to be the hardest struggle with being committed to one person forever.We’re all human and I figured that was human nature. Anyway, she says she just felt this for the first time and that REALLY freaked her out and was the main reason she wants to seperate. The reason for the seperation she says is so she can find herself. We should date each other during this seperation she says (although as angry and stand-offish as she is to me it’s hard to imagine dating….) Lots of self discovery, soul searching et.al for me. I’ve woken up to many things during this. My fear of my own feelings and emotions being one of the bigger ones. The way I hid from those same feelings and confrontation by putting up walls and sectioning off people and parts of my life is another biggie. We don’t talk . I’ve been tearing down those walls which mainly existed with my own family – working on myself for myself. I always said I wanted to be happy, wanted the great relationship but I didn’t truly understand or KNOW what those words meant. Better yet ( or worse- depends which way you look at it) I couldn’t visualize those things. This whole event that is still ongoing feels like a 2×4 that smacked into my head and knocked loose a filter or something that was there. If, there is any good to come of all this, I know already that that is it. My family knows that too as I’ve leaned on them and am now showing them"me" and communicating with them- which doesn’t hurt like I maybe thought it would. It feeels good actually. Where was i….enopugh about me I guess. Us- sure, we’ve had our problems, I felt things weren’t right for a while but I alway thought that that was a casualty of buying houses, kids, careers, etc. that we’d get back to us in a while once the kids got a little bigger(and easier). I thought we’d have a lifetime to continue working on us and ourselves. I took her and her love SO for granted.I took a lot for granted. I was SO comfortable. WTF was wrong with me? Everything I took for granted has been ripped out from under. She says to me " I told you- I told you that if you didn’t pay attention someone elso will", or " I told you I’d put up with your shit for only so long and then I’d have enough and move on"- She did say these things. She said them in the middle or tail end of a fight/argument as she/we said anything. Since all this I’ve said to her that that’s true -you did say those things but as I’ve always said to her, communicating during a fight isn’t really communicating. She (as of yesterday) still beleives it is. She thinks it’s a fine method and time to communicate. It isn’t. We both get stubborn when mad, but she’s always been more stubborn than me when mad. In the past we’d have a fight and some shitty hthings would be said on both sides but after the fight everything was always back to " normal" -whatever that is/was- and it was all smiles, and talk of the future etc. etc. I forgot to mention this as I think it has something to do with all this. She is the skinniest she has ever been since 17. She has lost all the baby weight and then some. She’s down almost to double digits now. I mention this because ……how to say this.. It feels now like it’s all about her. She’s getting new cloths, wants to look great ( I’m complimenting left and right- not over doing it at all- just appropriately complimenting her- she does deserve it too.) As she said in one fo the talks that first weekend- " I like going out and want to go out with my friends from work because it’s peace and happiness- I don’t worry about a relationship". Again, I don’t know if I told her or not- that sounds like escape- like denial to me. Definately not to her though. I know that. 2 days ago we go to a hotel for her work party. She’s in a new dress, I have new duds.The plan was that we’d fake it or whatever- just to have a good time together. I can live with that. That’s all I wanted too. Drinks start flowing. We are mingling then it’s her, me and 2 guys she works with- one who looks at noone but her- even when his wife is there- she says" hey you want to hear my boob story" well of course they did. Minutes later it’s me , her and 2 other guys- one being her manager ( who I originally suspected was the "client") and she repeates her story of taping up her boobs- but not covering the nipples – so they show better, nipples especially. You see, as a husband, let alone a boyfreind or a date, that was wierd and hard to go along with but I did. Most importantly though, is that just isn’t the wife I’ve know for all these years. The rest of the night went just as wierdly ( i could write a seperate novel about that night) . To top it off, at 2 in the morning the 3 couples ( us and 2 others- her manager & his wife were one decide to go to the hottub. we go up to the room to change. I’ve forgotten a suit- sh3e’s unconcerned with my problems as she pulls out a brand new hot 2 piece that she "just got about a month ago" as though it was milk at the store. She says stay or go , but I’m going. So I go, I eventually get in my boxer shorts…She’s showing off her body….etc. etc. At the end of the night, no sex. No intercourse I should say. It was fine for me to orally help her out but I was on my own. She didn’t want to send me the wronfg signal!? whatever. Oh, one more thing, during this party we were just about clicking on all cylinders- as she got drunk more of the "old her" (it was along side this "new" her though) … read more »
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