Fear | Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

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Fear

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All of your posts and arguments between each other gave me support and insight. It was good to get the viewpoint of Ruff because he is right, it is very, very difficult for me to understand where my boyfriend is coming from when I am afraid of him. We are both fearful. You know what they say about anxiety and panic attacks… it’s the "fight or flight" rule. My reaction is flight, his is fight. He is pressuring me about my feelings to an extreme point which makes me afraid of him personally because I cannot escape it. I knew what was driving my fear (afraid he is totally out of control, afraid he would hurt me physically because he was becoming violent in his efforts, etc) but Ruff’s posts helped me understand what was driving his fear. That helped me to initiate a phone call to him in which I very calmly explained to him that I understand that he wants to know my feelings, wants to know what I am thinking, wants to know what he can do to change all of this, wants to know if I am lost to him, wants to know everything right now but I told him I cannot feel anything but fear right now because of the way he is attempting to get those answers, because when he can’t get those answers from me he panics and escalates the encounter with anger which makes me fearful and makes me flee. The more I flee, the more you pursue. Viscous cycle. I controlled myself not to respond to all the emotionalism coming from him, not to make accusations about the past and things he has done to make me afraid and just kept saying, "all I can feel right now is fear, I am afraid of you, I can’t deal with or think about my feelings when all I feel is fear" He finally asked me what he could do to help me feel better and I told him to please back off me totally. I need space, I need him to stop the relentless pursuit, I need him to stop approaching me, I need him to stop calling me. He started to accuse me of wanting space to bring another man into my life and I just kept repeating that all I feel right now is fear, I did not attempt to defend my actions like I always did in the past. So far, he has backed off of me. And sure enough, now that the fear has subsided a bit I am starting to feel other things that are hard to cope with. I don’t know if he can maintain this self control so I have decided that I will not participate the way I did so far in the relationship. I will get a restraining order if it escalates again. I need to be safe. I have decided that I cannot care for his son without a time limit for him to make other arrangements. I have come to realize that I have to find some self-control and not send mixed signals. I know I need to make a firm decision but I can’t do that with all this distraction. He is pressuring me to make a decision one way or the other right now because that’s what he needs to move forward one way or the other. My willingness to care for his needs would usually have me forcing myself to decide right now to make him feel better. I am not going to do that this time because I am simply not ready to decide. I am going to tell him that I need a two month time out and during that time I plan on working with my therapist and myself to get a grip on my feelings and issues. For the first time in my life I won’t make decisions based on what-ifs. I am very, very grateful for all of the help I have received here and hope that I give some of the same back to some of you. -A

(((Angelina))) This is wonderful to read. I congratulate you on hearing (reading) and taking what was best for you (leaving the rest). In hearing Ruff’s message, you have done both yourself and this man a caring service. I am glad you protected yourself by using the phone. Safety first! You have placed both of you in a safer place and left open a small window that will allow you to explore if this man is for you. Others in here argued to throw him away. You have chosen to speak clearly and kindly and to care for both of you. I wish you happiness and peace. Jim

Response:

(snipped) He finally asked me what he could do to help me feel better and I told him to please back off me totally. I need space, I need him to stop the relentless pursuit, I need him to stop approaching me, I need him to stop calling me. He started to accuse me of wanting space to bring another man into my life and I just kept repeating that all I feel right now is fear, I did not attempt to defend my actions like I always did in the past.

GOOD GOOD GOOD GOOD STUFF! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So far, he has backed off of me. And sure enough, now that the fear has subsided a bit I am starting to feel other things that are hard to cope with. I don’t know if he can maintain this self control so I have decided that I will not participate the way I did so far in the relationship. I will get a restraining order if it escalates again. I need to be safe. I have decided that I cannot care for his son without a time limit for him to make other arrangements. I have come to realize that I have to find some self-control and not send mixed signals. I know I need to make a firm decision but I can’t do that with all this distraction. He is pressuring me to make a decision one way or the other right now because that’s what he needs to move forward one way or the other. My willingness to care for his needs would usually have me forcing myself to decide right now to make him feel better. I am not going to do that this time because I am simply not ready to decide. I am going to tell him that I need a two month time out and during that time I plan on working with my therapist and myself to get a grip on my feelings and issues. For the first time in my life I won’t make decisions based on what-ifs. I am very, very grateful for all of the help I have received here and hope that I give some of the same back to some of you. -A

Angelina, Good for you. You set some very appropriate boundaries. You were clear and clean with your stuff (owning your fear and inability at this point to see whats going on with him) and you have a plan if he doesn’t respect your wishes. Good luck with that therapy appt. next week. Regards, Jim P. — NOTE SPAM GUARD—– DO NOT HIT REPLY—- remove ** when replying

Response:

what happened to Angelina?

Meaning where was I since all this posting happened? Well, I was trying to not dwell on all of this, I was concentrating on work and went to group last night. All of your posts and arguments between each other gave me support and insight. It was good to get the viewpoint of Ruff because he is right, it is very, very difficult for me to understand where my boyfriend is coming from when I am afraid of him. We are both fearful. You know what they say about anxiety and panic attacks… it’s the "fight or flight" rule. My reaction is flight, his is fight. He is pressuring me about my feelings to an extreme point which makes me afraid of him personally because I cannot escape it. I knew what was driving my fear (afraid he is totally out of control, afraid he would hurt me physically because he was becoming violent in his efforts, etc) but Ruff’s posts helped me understand what was driving his fear. That helped me to initiate a phone call to him in which I very calmly explained to him that I understand that he wants to know my feelings, wants to know what I am thinking, wants to know what he can do to change all of this, wants to know if I am lost to him, wants to know everything right now but I told him I cannot feel anything but fear right now because of the way he is attempting to get those answers, because when he can’t get those answers from me he panics and escalates the encounter with anger which makes me fearful and makes me flee. The more I flee, the more you pursue. Viscous cycle. I controlled myself not to respond to all the emotionalism coming from him, not to make accusations about the past and things he has done to make me afraid and just kept saying, "all I can feel right now is fear, I am afraid of you, I can’t deal with or think about my feelings when all I feel is fear" He finally asked me what he could do to help me feel better and I told him to please back off me totally. I need space, I need him to stop the relentless pursuit, I need him to stop approaching me, I need him to stop calling me. He started to accuse me of wanting space to bring another man into my life and I just kept repeating that all I feel right now is fear, I did not attempt to defend my actions like I always did in the past. So far, he has backed off of me. And sure enough, now that the fear has subsided a bit I am starting to feel other things that are hard to cope with. I don’t know if he can maintain this self control so I have decided that I will not participate the way I did so far in the relationship. I will get a restraining order if it escalates again. I need to be safe. I have decided that I cannot care for his son without a time limit for him to make other arrangements. I have come to realize that I have to find some self-control and not send mixed signals. I know I need to make a firm decision but I can’t do that with all this distraction. He is pressuring me to make a decision one way or the other right now because that’s what he needs to move forward one way or the other. My willingness to care for his needs would usually have me forcing myself to decide right now to make him feel better. I am not going to do that this time because I am simply not ready to decide. I am going to tell him that I need a two month time out and during that time I plan on working with my therapist and myself to get a grip on my feelings and issues. For the first time in my life I won’t make decisions based on what-ifs. I am very, very grateful for all of the help I have received here and hope that I give some of the same back to some of you. -A

Response:

what happened to Angelina?

Read the thread "fear". Jim P. — NOTE SPAM GUARD—– DO NOT HIT REPLY—- remove ** when replying

Response:

what happened to Angelina?

a very good question guys. Angelina asked for help. This debate shows how we hurt people asking for help in here. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruff, I really don’t know where you are coming from with this stuff. I know you don’t Jim. You have never been there I guess. I could describe EXACTLY what this guy is feeling and how it will escalate because it is still fresh in my mind. We’ve all been rejected at one time or another. We either accept it and move on (hurt and all), try with all our might to keep the relationship and change their minds/hearts through begging or coersion (in this case coersion), or stay hurt, resentful and stuck in the rejection. She went to CoDA. Now he is "toxic" in her mind and heart. She doesn’t need CODA to tell her this guy is bad news…anyone with an I.Q. of 3 can see this guy is off the mark and quite probably dangerous. Have you ever met dangerous people? Did you need a program to tell you they were bad news or did their behavior and your insticts tell you that. Cmon. It is a self fulfilling prophecy and HE does not and WILL not understand. You can’t treat him like he is in the program. It WON’T work. Ruff, this has nothing to do with the godamn program. He doesn’t want to be rejected-he doesn’t want to be alone, he doesn’t want to be responsible for himself or his child. So he is trying (and suceeding) to intimidate her into not rejecting him. THAT IS NOT OK. Maybe it is with you– you clearly identify with this guy. You would do well by volunteering in a battered womens shelter, or taking a course in the psychology of domestic abuse. I do much more than that Jim. Thanks for the advise though. Such as? Whether you meant to or not–you have just blamed and shamed Angela for the situation she’s in. Angelina is putting herself AND HIM in this position for a specific goal. Right or wrong that is what she is focused on. She is seeking to find what is "wrong" with him and with the relationship. snip

Response:

Angelina, I understand where you are. I know it feels futile. I don’t understand why you are doing it this way.

Because supporting a guy that wants her to do everything for him is getting to be a drag? Because he won’t be a man and support himself when she does not want the relationship anymore? FEAR is the opposite of LOVE. You are doing all the right things to accelerate the fear. Remember when you fell in love with him and all you could manufacture was love? Now you are doing the opposite.

Yes, you should have looked at him lovingly, with open arms and a desire to talk openly and honestly while he was raging at you for not paying his rent and pulling out the telephone cords so that you couldn’t call for help. Really Angela……what is wrong with you. That running and hiding in the bathroom stuff is just going to make matters worse. Shame on you! There IS a less confrontational way than slamming the door in his face, ceasing open and honest communication, and running away.

Well tell it. Don’t just say there is and leave it hang. I would be interested in knowing how to end a relationship that is lopsided and abusive without feelings getting hurt and avoiding confrontation. If you continue it will drive the fear to an insane level, then yes, you will end up with confrontation, bitterness, and extreme anger that could end up dangerously.

And it will be all your fault when he puts you in the hospital or worse, right?. You are controlling this show if you are the one leaving.

Bullshit. She gets to say "I don’t want this relationship". He gets to respect that. He doesn’t have to like it but he better respect it if he is a mature man that loves and respects her. He is currently punishing her and trying to "make her" stay in the relationship (at least finacially). Doesn’t sound like love and respect to me. I’d say she’s letting him run the show by the choices she has made. You can do it in a loving way or in a hateful way. It will hurt both ways.

Have you ever had an angry, controlling, man–bigger than you -come after you? Did you have a loving reaction or a fear reaction? I suppose if she’d only support the guy, pay his rent, cook his food, raise his kid, give him sex, then everything would be OK. How’s that sound Angela? Or maybe you could wear a smile when you tell him your not interested in being his mama and his banker anymore. That would be the LOVING way. Most often, when you hurt a man he will lust for you more…..for a while. There will be those who say that HE is responsible for his own feelings and you have nothing to do with that.

I’d bet that most people would say he’s responsible for his feelings and his actions except for you. Who is responsible for his feelings? her? Bullshit. I am the only one responsible for how I feel. Nobody, I mean nobody in this world is powerful enough to make me feel good, bad, happy, scared, angry, etc. They are my feelings–noone elses. If someone is mean to me–they are responsible for what they did. They are NOT responsible for the hurt or sadness I might feel. Nothing they can do can change how I feel. I’m the only one that can do that. It’s an inside job. That’s why people can forgive offenders that show no remorse for their actions. Angela’s fear is hers. This Guy’s anger, rage, and profound sense of entitlement is his. Do you think you can convince yourself that you have nothing to do with the way he feels? You have just taken total control.

Again, Angela, if you would only change his daipers and do as you are told-he wouldn’t have to be so angry, now would he? You have everything to do with compromising at this point.

Yeah, maybe if you were willing to pay half his rent and raise his kid this would go alot better and his poor little bruised ego wouldn’t smart so much. Bless you. It is hard to be where you are. With every right you have there is a responsibility. But it sounds like IT is not (and probably HE is not) as bad as your fear is driving you to believe. You may be crushing his ego and he is hurting and getting scared also, hence all the resistance and lack of trust in you. Ruffnhewn

Ruff, I really don’t know where you are coming from with this stuff. You would do well by volunteering in a battered womens shelter, or taking a course in the psychology of domestic abuse. Whether you meant to or not–you have just blamed and shamed Angela for the situation she’s in. Don’t take my word for it. Ask the group what they think. For sure, Angela’s got her part (I apologize, Angela for talking as if you aren’t in the room) after all she hooked up with this beauty. She has every right to say "no thanks" without being brow beaten or threatened. She does NOT have to lick his wounds. One last thing….why did you find it necessary to snip her x-post to alt.recovery.abuse? Just incase this was an oversight, I x-posted it back. I’m sure the fine people there would want to share in your insights too. Jim P. — NOTE SPAM GUARD—– DO NOT HIT REPLY—- remove ** when replying

Response:

what happened to Angelina? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruff, I really don’t know where you are coming from with this stuff. I know you don’t Jim. You have never been there I guess. I could describe EXACTLY what this guy is feeling and how it will escalate because it is still fresh in my mind. We’ve all been rejected at one time or another. We either accept it and move on (hurt and all), try with all our might to keep the relationship and change their minds/hearts through begging or coersion (in this case coersion), or stay hurt, resentful and stuck in the rejection. She went to CoDA. Now he is "toxic" in her mind and heart. She doesn’t need CODA to tell her this guy is bad news…anyone with an I.Q. of 3 can see this guy is off the mark and quite probably dangerous. Have you ever met dangerous people? Did you need a program to tell you they were bad news or did their behavior and your insticts tell you that. Cmon. It is a self fulfilling prophecy and HE does not and WILL not understand. You can’t treat him like he is in the program. It WON’T work. Ruff, this has nothing to do with the godamn program. He doesn’t want to be rejected-he doesn’t want to be alone, he doesn’t want to be responsible for himself or his child. So he is trying (and suceeding) to intimidate her into not rejecting him. THAT IS NOT OK. Maybe it is with you– you clearly identify with this guy. You would do well by volunteering in a battered womens shelter, or taking a course in the psychology of domestic abuse. I do much more than that Jim. Thanks for the advise though. Such as? Whether you meant to or not–you have just blamed and shamed Angela for the situation she’s in. Angelina is putting herself AND HIM in this position for a specific goal. Right or wrong that is what she is focused on. She is seeking to find what is "wrong" with him and with the relationship. snip

Response:

Hi Angelina … Catherine here Just finished a court case with a person who sounds *amazingly* like this fellow you describe – . I wanted you to know that I appreciate your situation and hope you can break out of it soon. I agree with the others who have suggested that you cease caring for his son. Both you and the boy seem to be suffering for this arrangement. Take care and be well. Catherine — Everything can be taken away from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms — to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way. Man’s Search for Meaning

Response:

Angelina, I dont really know waht to say. It does sound like a very scary situation. ts sounds as if this fellow has you in an emotional tug-of-war. Although I dont know waht words to say to you, I will read your posts & keep you in my thoughts. I know thats not much to offer. polly wog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He says the right words but never completes the actions He blames me for everything and tells me I need to take care of my own problems He accuses me of lying, cheating, conspiring against him with my friends and family He confronts and argues with me on every single word or movement I make He goes through my personal items He watches my every movement He constantly pressures me to be close to him If things don’t go his way he escalates the confrontation and I am afraid Three weeks ago he escalated the confrontation to a physical level. He didn’t hit me but he did come after me and I managed to lock myself in the bathroom with the phone. I couldn’t call the police because he dis-connected the phone lines. I had already asked him to move out and he said he was but was doing nothing about it except pressuring me to be close, to work out the problems, laying guilt on me for my decision. I own the house, he does not. I ended up seeing a psych for the panic attacks and anxiety I was suffering. He put me on anti-depressants when I told him that part of my anxiety was the realization that I put myself in this position and did not seem to have an easy way out. He told me to get out of the house whether or not it was mine and be safe. That day my boyfriend played at "everything is ok" and whenever I made a suggestion towards helping him find a place he became angry so I backed off. That night I left while he was gone and stayed at my mothers. I asked for her help (I never ask for help) and she said that if he was still at my house the next day (he had been promising to leave and go to a hotel until he got a place) that she would confront him. I said "but, Mom, aren’t you afraid of him?" and she "absolutely not", she pointed out to me that he is intimidated by her because she is not afraid of him, he is intimidated by my 16 year old daughter because she is not afraid of him, he is intimidated by my father because he is not afraid of him. She is right, I am afraid and that gives him the power to intimidate me. She talked to him, she gave him money, she helped him pack and she moved him out to a motel the next day. He cooperated without so much as an argument. He even hugged her and thanked her for the support and help. I was stunned. I have been babysitting his son while he works at night because he does not have anyone to watch him and because I did not want the child to suffer through this transition. He has now begun to use his son to engage me. I told him I cannot talk to him right now but when he drops his son off he stands at the door saying he needs to talk to me and then engages me in an emotional argument about our relationship. He calls me in the middle of the night saying that he is calling because I have his son here and then engages me in an emotional argument. Last night I could not take anymore and I shut the front door in his face and locked it. He started pounding on my bedroom window which I tried to ignore. He pounded on the front door yelling "I want to talk to my son!" His son went outside and 2 minutes later came back in and his father finally left. I have never been this afraid of someone. He is intimidated by everyone around me, won’t even come near the house if he sees my daughter’s car in the driveway. Everyone says that I need to let go of my fear. Why can’t I do that? -A

Response:

Ruff, I really don’t know where you are coming from with this stuff. I know you don’t Jim. You have never been there I guess. I could describe EXACTLY what this guy is feeling and how it will escalate because it is still fresh in my mind.

We’ve all been rejected at one time or another. We either accept it and move on (hurt and all), try with all our might to keep the relationship and change their minds/hearts through begging or coersion (in this case coersion), or stay hurt, resentful and stuck in the rejection. She went to CoDA. Now he is "toxic" in her mind and heart.

She doesn’t need CODA to tell her this guy is bad news…anyone with an I.Q. of 3 can see this guy is off the mark and quite probably dangerous. Have you ever met dangerous people? Did you need a program to tell you they were bad news or did their behavior and your insticts tell you that. Cmon. It is a self fulfilling prophecy and HE does not and WILL not understand. You can’t treat him like he is in the program. It WON’T work.

Ruff, this has nothing to do with the godamn program. He doesn’t want to be rejected-he doesn’t want to be alone, he doesn’t want to be responsible for himself or his child. So he is trying (and suceeding) to intimidate her into not rejecting him. THAT IS NOT OK. Maybe it is with you– you clearly identify with this guy. You would do well by volunteering in a battered womens shelter, or taking a course in the psychology of domestic abuse. I do much more than that Jim. Thanks for the advise though.

Such as? Whether you meant to or not–you have just blamed and shamed Angela for the situation she’s in. Angelina is putting herself AND HIM in this position for a specific goal. Right or wrong that is what she is focused on. She is seeking to find what is "wrong" with him and with the relationship.

She is seeking to preserve her safety from a guy that is threatening her. She knows whats wrong–thats why she doesn’t want it anymore. The War is a stage that EVERY relationship gets to. With addictive personalities it usually ends here and acceptance and love is never reached. The paradise phase is seeked again with someone else only to find the war again down the road. Maybe better, maybe not.

This is not "oh shit the honeymoons over…I guess I’m outta here". This is D-O-M-E-S-T-I-C- A-B-U-S-E. She readily admits to repeating a pattern of finding men she can take care of and use her . That’s the problem. Don’t take my word for it. Ask the group what they think. For sure, Angela’s got her part (I apologize, Angela for talking as if you aren’t in the room) after all she hooked up with this beauty. You sure assume a lot. This "beauty" you assume, is a bad guy. Not one from the rooms. Not in the program.

NO RUFF, THIS GUY IS BAD NEWS BECAUSE HE IS THREATENING HER, TEARING UP PHONE LINES AND USING HER!!!! FOR ALL I KNOW, HE IS A DRUNK IN THE PROGRAM. IT WOULDN’T BE THE FIRST CASE OF DOMESTIC ABUSE PERPETRATED BY A DRUNK IN A.A. You are only seeing a VERY small part of who Angelina is and who her SO is.

As are you. But there could be a deep spiritual connection and that may never be taken apart. At least not by her or him or another human. It came from another source. Remember this is Angelina’s will, maybe not God’s will.

It was also Angelina’s will that got her there, no? For some reason, this doesn’t sound like a match made in heaven. But maybe I’m jaded. I’m sure O.J. and Nicole thought theirs was such a bond at one point too. She has every right to say "no thanks" without being brow beaten or threatened. She does NOT have to lick his wounds. Who said she did? I would like to her to know she can react with love and forgiveness, whether or not they stay together. It will honor the relationship and the true identity of who they are.

Knowing and doing are two different things. Please state exactly how she should go about doing this. You talk out of both sides of your mouth here Ruff. For a "bully" like ROK you believe an eye for an eye. For this bully you think she should be loving and forgiving. Make up your mind. One last thing….why did you find it necessary to snip her x-post to alt.recovery.abuse? Just incase this was an oversight, I x-posted it back. I’m sure the fine people there would want to share in your insights too. Jim P. JIM, A very simple answer to that: I DIDN’T. I haven’t posted to another newsgroup in over 6 months. IF YOU posted something in my name, which you say you did, DON’T. Ruffnhewn

Maybe so on aol, sorry. Jim P. — NOTE SPAM GUARD—– DO NOT HIT REPLY—- remove ** when replying

Response:

I have never been this afraid of someone. He is intimidated by everyone

around me, won’t even come near the house if he sees my daughter’s car in the driveway. Everyone says that I need to let go of my fear. Why can’t I do that?< I don’t know. It’s a crappy situation to be in, and he is using the little boy as leverage too….can you stop watching the boy for him? Do you know if he has ever hurt the son? I don’t have any magic answers for this one….I had somewhere to go when I got out, and it helped. It’s good that your mother was there for you…mine made friends with my abuser, and told me I was being unfair. Take care and good luck… Liz http://www.geocities.com/wellesley/7368 A closed mind gathers no thoughts. -Anonymous friend

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He says the right words but never completes the actions He blames me for everything and tells me I need to take care of my own problems He accuses me of lying, cheating, conspiring against him with my friends and family He confronts and argues with me on every single word or movement I make He goes through my personal items He watches my every movement He constantly pressures me to be close to him If things don’t go his way he escalates the confrontation and I am afraid Three weeks ago he escalated the confrontation to a physical level. He didn’t hit me but he did come after me and I managed to lock myself in the bathroom with the phone. (snipped)

A….. 1) you may not be able to take care of his kid if it means continued contact with this perp. Your hearts in the right place, but you are paying a hell of a price. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS SON. 2) He can’t disconnect a cellular phone. 3) this is the kind of crap that screams order of protection. 4) the more you act in ways that protect yourself, the less you will fear him. Action will always proceed the emotional shift. Regards, Jim P. — NOTE SPAM GUARD—– DO NOT HIT REPLY—- remove ** when replying

Response:

I have never been this afraid of someone. He is intimidated by everyone around me, won’t even come near the house if he sees my daughter’s car in the driveway. Everyone says that I need to let go of my fear. Why can’t I do that? -A

——- Angelina – Its not that you CAN’T LET GO of your fear. You have the ability to make your life stronger as you learn from your introspective thoughts. I find my greatest strength comes from trusting my intuitive beliefs. When I sit quietly, even for just a minute or so in the bathroom away from the rug rats, I can get close to my devine self. Each day I get closer and closer, and in turn I find my contact with spirit or God if you will builds. We are safe if we trust in God Angelina. Trust your instincts. If its ok with you, I’d like to send a prayer your way. Regards Rich M.

Response:

Jim. I just wanted to quickly thank you for you comments to my posts. I appreciate the insight you share from your own experiences and from your commitment to growth. Will write more later. Rich M.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never been this afraid of someone. He is intimidated by everyone around me, won’t even come near the house if he sees my daughter’s car in the driveway. Everyone says that I need to let go of my fear. Why can’t I do that? -A ——- Angelina – Its not that you CAN’T LET GO of your fear. You have the ability to make your life stronger as you learn from your introspective thoughts. I find my greatest strength comes from trusting my intuitive beliefs. When I sit quietly, even for just a minute or so in the bathroom away from the rug rats, I can get close to my devine self. Each day I get closer and closer, and in turn I find my contact with spirit or God if you will builds. We are safe if we trust in God Angelina. Trust your instincts. If its ok with you, I’d like to send a prayer your way. Regards Rich M.

Thanks Rich, I can use it.

Response:

1) you may not be able to take care of his kid if it means continued contact with this perp. Your hearts in the right place, but you are paying a hell of a price. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS SON.

I know this in my head but my heart bleeds when the child clings to me and says things to his father like "stop yelling at me or I’m gonna tell Angelina on you!" 2) He can’t disconnect a cellular phone.

I carry one on me whenever I am around him since that incident. 3) this is the kind of crap that screams order of protection.

I need to face the fact that I may have to do that no matter how terrifying the feeling is 4) the more you act in ways that protect yourself, the less you will fear him. Action will always proceed the emotional shift.

That was a very logical statement that I wish to thank you deeply for. If I can just stop thinking with my heart and start thinking with my head I may be able to overcome this. I have had a few co-dependent relationships in my time but never one with abuse like this. I was paying such a price for my co-dependency in this relationship that it forced me to look at my actions and take steps to resolve them for myself. That’s why I particpate in a co-dependency group. I hope that in hindsight my experience and my fear from this relationship will serve me well in life. -A

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He says the right words but never completes the actions He blames me for everything and tells me I need to take care of my own problems He accuses me of lying, cheating, conspiring against him with my friends and family He confronts and argues with me on every single word or movement I make He goes through my personal items He watches my every movement He constantly pressures me to be close to him If things don’t go his way he escalates the confrontation and I am afraid Three weeks ago he escalated the confrontation to a physical level. He didn’t hit me but he did come after me and I managed to lock myself in the bathroom with the phone. I couldn’t call the police because he dis-connected the phone lines. I had already asked him to move out and he said he was but was doing nothing about it except pressuring me to be close, to work out the problems, laying guilt on me for my decision. I own the house, he does not. I ended up seeing a psych for the panic attacks and anxiety I was suffering. He put me on anti-depressants when I told him that part of my anxiety was the realization that I put myself in this position and did not seem to have an easy way out. He told me to get out of the house whether or not it was mine and be safe. That day my boyfriend played at "everything is ok" and whenever I made a suggestion towards helping him find a place he became angry so I backed off. That night I left while he was gone and stayed at my mothers. I asked for her help (I never ask for help) and she said that if he was still at my house the next day (he had been promising to leave and go to a hotel until he got a place) that she would confront him. I said "but, Mom, aren’t you afraid of him?" and she "absolutely not", she pointed out to me that he is intimidated by her because she is not afraid of him, he is intimidated by my 16 year old daughter because she is not afraid of him, he is intimidated by my father because he is not afraid of him. She is right, I am afraid and that gives him the power to intimidate me. She talked to him, she gave him money, she helped him pack and she moved him out to a motel the next day. He cooperated without so much as an argument. He even hugged her and thanked her for the support and help. I was stunned. I have been babysitting his son while he works at night because he does not have anyone to watch him and because I did not want the child to suffer through this transition. He has now begun to use his son to engage me. I told him I cannot talk to him right now but when he drops his son off he stands at the door saying he needs to talk to me and then engages me in an emotional argument about our relationship. He calls me in the middle of the night saying that he is calling because I have his son here and then engages me in an emotional argument. Last night I could not take anymore and I shut the front door in his face and locked it. He started pounding on my bedroom window which I tried to ignore. He pounded on the front door yelling "I want to talk to my son!" His son went outside and 2 minutes later came back in and his father finally left. I have never been this afraid of someone. He is intimidated by everyone around me, won’t even come near the house if he sees my daughter’s car in the driveway. Everyone says that I need to let go of my fear. Why can’t I do that? -A

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I feel like I’m posting too much (twice in less than 12 hours) but there’s something i want to bounce off the people in here. Lately, I’ve noticed a very crippling fear. Well, it’d be hard not to notice it. It hits at night, when the apartment is quiet, my parents are in bed, and no one’s awake. My mother reads in bed at night, and when her lamp is on, I can see a strip of light from under my door. As soon I don’t see it anymore, I get very afraid. It gets to the point where I become scared of the silliest things: ghosts, Charles Manson finding *me* to slaughter my family, burglars, that my parents will die in their sleep, that there’re the boogie-men and monsters under my bed and in my closet. I can’t even close my eyes, for fear of what might creep up on me. And that terrifies me. I don’t get to sleep until at least after 4 anymore, more often about 7 a.m. I spoke breifly with my therapist about this at one point, and she said that it sounded like I’m afraid to be vulnerable. And I suppose that’s correct. Because when you’re asleep, you’re at your most vulnerable; you can’t see what’s coming at you and you couldn’t stop it if something *was* coming at you. Has anyone else ever felt like this before? Any words of advice would really be helpful. I’m at a complete loss. "Get that finger out of your ear, you don’t know where that finger’s been!" -Airplane

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My therapist agrees, that there are boundary problems. She said I should lock my door at night, if it’ll make me feel safer, but even that doesn’t. It’s like the badness that’s out to get me is already there…is already inside my room. I don’t mean that I’m afraid of myself. That’s not it at all. And now I fear I’m not making any sense. -Cat

My dreams are that way, too. Locks and heavy doors don’t make a difference now, I suspect because they didn’t then. Swords Take ".protect" out of the address for replies. Use anon-19589 at anon.twwells.com for anon email

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<snip are you in therapy? because you might have PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), a very common thing for abuse survivors to have. a symptom of that is "hypervigilance." which is a fancy way of saying, one gets spooked a lot! <snip i also have a really bad problem with hearing a voice right over my shoulder calling my name out, it really freaks me out! it’s almost as if it’s right there in the room with me. i thought i was going schizo or something. but my therp explained that’s a common symptom of PTSD, and it will pass. and sure enough, i’m less hypervigilant as time goes on. i can’t give you a time frame because everyone’s different.

Wow! I’ve had that. I thought I was going nuts at the time. I don’t think I’ve gone through anything severe enough to suffer PTSD though…. Hasn’t happened for a long time thank goodness jaffa These are just my opinions. Obviously. Take what works and dump the rest….. Replace nospam with alabaster to reply

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I’ve heard a lot about PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder, right?) but I’ve not been diagnosed with it… Should I ask my therapist about it when I see her again? -Cat "Get that finger out of your ear, you don’t know where that finger’s been!" -Airplane

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m posting too much (twice in less than 12 hours) but there’s something i want to bounce off the people in here. Lately, I’ve noticed a very crippling fear. Well, it’d be hard not to notice it. It hits at night, when the apartment is quiet, my parents are in bed, and no one’s awake. My mother reads in bed at night, and when her lamp is on, I can see a strip of light from under my door. As soon I don’t see it anymore, I get very afraid. It gets to the point where I become scared of the silliest things: ghosts, Charles Manson finding *me* to slaughter my family, burglars, that my parents will die in their sleep, that there’re the boogie-men and monsters under my bed and in my closet. I can’t even close my eyes, for fear of what might creep up on me. And that terrifies me. I don’t get to sleep until at least after 4 anymore, more often about 7 a.m. I spoke breifly with my therapist about this at one point, and she said that it sounded like I’m afraid to be vulnerable. And I suppose that’s correct. Because when you’re asleep, you’re at your most vulnerable; you can’t see what’s coming at you and you couldn’t stop it if something *was* coming at you. Has anyone else ever felt like this before? Any words of advice would really be helpful. I’m at a complete loss. "Get that finger out of your ear, you don’t know where that finger’s been!" -Airplane

For what feels like my entire life, I’ve had what I called "chase dreams". These are dreams where I’m being chased by something or someone who can’t be stopped and who I can’t get away from. There are a lot of practical variations to this, but the theme remains. I spend the entire dream running away faster and struggling harder while he/it gets inexorably closer. (As a kid, I tried hiding under my pillow, but the sound of my heartbeat was transformed and I ended up chased by trains. Annoying, if inventive.) I’d usually wake up once or more a night from these dreams. Being physically uncomfortable would make them much stronger, and harder to wake up from. Eventually I learned a minor version of directed dreaming — when things got really bad, I’d recognize it was a dream and (with a struggle) I could force myself awake. It’s funny — even knowing it was a dream, I had a hard time waking up from it. I still get these dream, although not every night and not as vividly. I may have lost that talent for directed dreaming I learned as a kid, but they’re usually not bad enough to trigger it anyway. When you talked about unknown fears when the lights go out, my chase dreams instantly came to mind as similar. Now, I have some idea where my fears come from; is there something special about that time of night that might give rise to vague, undirected fear? Swords Take ".protect" out of the address for replies. Use anon-19589 at anon.twwells.com for anon email

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Hi, Cat. First I want to say I think I understand, in your first post, about the badness already being there. You *know* there’s nobody in the house, or in your room, but…it’s almost like you’re haunted. Like, as soon as you let your guard down, it’ll be on you. So you can’t relax, you can’t let go, or something bad will happen. (Not "you" specifically…"you" because it’s easier to write than "I.") Well, that’s how I feel anyways. Second, though my abuse was never sexual, many of the memories I have of it are very dreamlike. Time slows down, and I watch the things as they happen to me. That isn’t *me* being (fill in the blank), it’s just my body. *I’m* way up here, safe. But it doesn’t make them any less real. I’ve read in cases of SA this is frequently the case. I do a lot of checking. I’ve never thought of it as being OC…it’s just…a ritual I have to do before whatever. Like turning on the light when I go to the bathroom because there’s a mirror in there. Mirrors scare the shit out of me, but they’re safe if the light’s on. And closets. If the closet door isn’t closed I stare at the dark inside it and imagine horrible things happening. And showers. Our shower curtain stays open unless there’s company coming over. I just can’t stand being in the bathroom if it’s closed. What if someone was hiding in there? (Like you said, what would I do if there was???) Under the bed, too. No hanging limbs off the bed in this house! Heh, we don’t even have an under the bed…Our ferrets were chewing on the padding up inside the boxsprings, so we took the frame off and put the bed on the floor. But still, what if? What I’m trying to say here is…if it makes you feel safe, and it doesn’t hurt anything, I don’t think there’s a problem. We sleep with the bathroom light on, and we leave the shower curtain open, and the closets stay closed, and it’s no big thing. Maybe you can find something that makes you feel safe in your bed? Something you feel protects you. I don’t know what your beliefs are, so please don’t be offended, but here’s a few suggestions. Black onyx is supposed to absorb evil spirits and keep them away from you. I used to wear a stone as a necklace and it made me feel better. I also used to sleep with a Bible under my pillow or next to me. As I said before, we leave the bathroom light on. Before I had anybody to sleep with, I had these two great big teddy bears, and they watched over me…This was in college, and my friends thought it was a little weird, but it didn’t hurt anything, so it wasn’t an issue. I sleep with my man and a couple of dogs and usually a cat or three and occasionally a ferret, and boy do I feel safe! =) But I still can’t sleep alone. I’m NOT a therp and I don’t know you at all. Please think about these suggestions before you follow them, and try to figure out if they’re okay for you or if they might do more harm than good. Maybe if you can put the symptoms aside and get together enough energy (i.e., sleep you can focus on the real issues. -Sara.

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in my case, my dad "drugged" me by giving me codeine cough syrup when i didn’t need it. he also whispered to me "you’re just dreaming, this is a dream" over and over, hypnotizing me. so i know what you mean about it having a dream-like feeling to it, and not knowing if it’s real or not. not sure if it matters, the reality is, you have a problem sleeping *now*. I’m also, by nature, a very paranoid person, and I know this stems from having few boundaries. Like, before I can go to the bathroom, I *have* to check in the shower to see if someone’s there. If I ever did find someone in the shower, I’m not sure what I’d do, though… But I have to look all around before changing clothes, all that stuff. So, the fear isn’t totally a lone emotion, but I fear it may be a symptom. Any ideas?

are you in therapy? because you might have PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), a very common thing for abuse survivors to have. a symptom of that is "hypervigilance." which is a fancy way of saying, one gets spooked a lot! i have a lot of fears about falling asleep, because that’s when my dad came in my room most often. i’ve worked with a therapist to learn "coping skills" for making the bedroom, and the bed, a "safe" place. it’s like, you have to *reclaim* the room for your own. like, i printed out and hung up inspirational lyrics and poems on the walls, i hung up pictures i’d colored or drawn. i also pile up stuffed animals between me and the door, and i sleep with a lot of pillows surrounding me. it sounds really childish, but it works! i get sleep. and over the last few months, i’ve needed less and less of the childish stuff. i also have a really bad problem with hearing a voice right over my shoulder calling my name out, it really freaks me out! it’s almost as if it’s right there in the room with me. i thought i was going schizo or something. but my therp explained that’s a common symptom of PTSD, and it will pass. and sure enough, i’m less hypervigilant as time goes on. i can’t give you a time frame because everyone’s different. peace, karmagrrl

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‘has anyone else ever felt this way?’ YES. oh yesyesyesyesyes. if it’s any comfort, those irrational fears have calmed a lot for me over time. i used to be afraid to close my eyes to wash my face, i was convinced there was a man with a knife hiding behind the door. afraid of light at night, afraid of shadows. i don’t know that it’s quite as simple as being afraid of being vulnerable, though. for me, some of it was memories, sort of like emotional flashbacks. i still get ‘em, but not as many, nor as bad. i just asked my husband how i coped with the night terrors, and he says i generally stayed awake all night. frankly, i think it’s my meds that have allowed me to sleep at night. anxiety can be as much a physical problem as an emotional one, imo. i wish i could be more help to you… silverleaf — Hardware: the parts of a computer that may be KICKED.

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I think one of the reasons that the fear is so strongly associated with sleeping (or NOT sleeping, as the case may be) is because once I go to sleep, I can’t stop what’s coming at me. I think I may realize the basis for this. About 6 years ago, my mother was sick and in the hospital. This left my dad and I at home. One night, (God, I wish I could remember if this was a dream or not) I thought my father came into my room and raped me while I was asleep. I smelled his smell, felt his hair, his body, but it all had a very dream-like feeling to it. So now I’m left wondering if it was in fact real, and in some way, not sleeping is my way of ensuring it doesn’t happen again. I’m also, by nature, a very paranoid person, and I know this stems from having few boundaries. Like, before I can go to the bathroom, I *have* to check in the shower to see if someone’s there. If I ever did find someone in the shower, I’m not sure what I’d do, though… But I have to look all around before changing clothes, all that stuff. So, the fear isn’t totally a lone emotion, but I fear it may be a symptom. Any ideas? -Cat

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Sounds like sanity to me Cat. That paranoia comes from being beaten and made blame gamed scrapgoated upon in your history in how those messages got repeatedly put in there – good parenting messages said by you to you repeatedly are a help. Making it okey to snuggle in your bed blankets and pillows I have found to be a help – I am born in the chinese year of the snake and I have about 9 pillows on my bed – use all of them though the night also. This guy likes to get comforable. When you talk – you are searching. So keep that up. Keep breaking silence in safe ways with safe people. Dream journal, group work, 12 stepping, and even the internet allows you to be heard and make what is "in there" invisable put "out here" in the concrete and then one can take a look at it. Make sense of it, make sanity of it. Its the pulling head outta butt and stick nose in poop to see what is going on stuff. It’s great family fun – the kids will love it. Draw a circle of white light around your body when you sit or lie down and then fill it and you with pink light, or green light or what ever healing colors and feel good colors you can bring into it. See if that helps any. Start working on boundaries with your therapist, finding them by the felt sense of them (life feeling the fort), sensing when they are being violated, enforcing them, being a champion, recovery buddie, good parent to your self. You will be all right Cat. Cat’s always do all right. I call them fur persons or buddha beings in how they always bump heads. sumbuddie 2 luv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My therapist agrees, that there are boundary problems. She said I should lock my door at night, if it’ll make me feel safer, but even that doesn’t. It’s like the badness that’s out to get me is already there…is already inside my room. I don’t mean that I’m afraid of myself. That’s not it at all. And now I fear I’m not making any sense. -Cat

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I like the bible concept of "fear not". It took me awhile to get there and stay there. Seeing the method in the maddness helps a lot – as there are no accidents. There is some victim addiction going on – and issues with boundaries. If you can with your therapist – get under a table, and put blankets and boxes and chairs and stuff to build a toy fort for you. Get in there and feel the concret protection you can make. And how your senses open up as they are focused – a good mindset for combat – if you want or have to. But I keep opening and building boundries - casting circles – doing purifications. Eventually I dont create any energy to attract that kind of stuff that was Chuck and his cult. Just look at Pat Robertson and his talk about some speartip of God getting all the born again believers first – Chuck talk – then everybody else later. This is helter skelter – I swear. And 10s of millions in the Republician Party have this spearchucking god mentality of suicide/homocide with prophet pat who they have circled the wagons around just like Scumbag Burton is protected. Your fears are well founded I think – just focus them a little more another way and there you see the monster getting your family and you as they take your money and run. Still – fear not. wake up on the watchtower – with a red guitar, three cords and a verse. sleep well by the strum the strings…. sumbuddie 2 luv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m posting too much (twice in less than 12 hours) but there’s something i want to bounce off the people in here. Lately, I’ve noticed a very crippling fear. Well, it’d be hard not to notice it. It hits at night, when the apartment is quiet, my parents are in bed, and no one’s awake. My mother reads in bed at night, and when her lamp is on, I can see a strip of light from under my door. As soon I don’t see it anymore, I get very afraid. It gets to the point where I become scared of the silliest things: ghosts, Charles Manson finding *me* to slaughter my family, burglars, that my parents will die in their sleep, that there’re the boogie-men and monsters under my bed and in my closet. I can’t even close my eyes, for fear of what might creep up on me. And that terrifies me. I don’t get to sleep until at least after 4 anymore, more often about 7 a.m. I spoke breifly with my therapist about this at one point, and she said that it sounded like I’m afraid to be vulnerable. And I suppose that’s correct. Because when you’re asleep, you’re at your most vulnerable; you can’t see what’s coming at you and you couldn’t stop it if something *was* coming at you. Has anyone else ever felt like this before? Any words of advice would really be helpful. I’m at a complete loss. "Get that finger out of your ear, you don’t know where that finger’s been!" -Airplane

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Get to a therapist and start to work on your recovery issues. It won’t just magically go away…it takes time and work and patience. We’re here to support you on that journey. Good luck…Clue

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Hello, I am in a relationship with a woman and when we have sex together I am filled with anxiety. I was sexually abused as a child. She is very understanding about this and knows about the abuse. What can I (we) do to help get rid of this.

I wish I knew. I’m not free of anxiety either. Try to see what triggers you and what in particular makes you anxious. If you can, perhaps you can work through it or work around it. If it’s just the situation itself without any definite triggers than I really don’t know. I’d love to be healed of this little gem from the past. fare thee well, Eric Verwijs "Maybe I can find a place I can call my home. Maybe I can find a home I can call my own." Dicken’s Dublin by Loreena McKennitt

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Well, my newsfeed must be getting better. Second article in a week that i received in the news. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again i didn’t get this in the news. Copied from mail That makes it real enough to have a feeling about, certainly. Hasn’t happened (jet). But i still have the feeling that it will happen. I’m not as scared as i was yersterday, but still scared. Altho right now it comes and goes. Does it seem to have anything really to do with things going on outside? Or does it have more to do with where you are? No, this thing is real enough. Or not. I had a feeling a few moths ago that something (dutch: in de lucht hing = ) could happen/probebly would happen/is possible to happen (not entirely sure how to translate it. I thought alot about it and as far as i can make out it’s quite possibol and very likely. Okay, so this is for a specific thing that you are fearing, which thing you aren’t disclosing (which is fine with me), but which is entirely possible and would be a bad thing?

Yes, yes and yes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But what i think or don’t think doesn’t realy matter since i’ve still have the feeling that it will happen. In a way i’m surprised that it hasn’t jet happened. The last few moths i had a strong feeling that last saterday was the most likely day for it to happen. I expected to be notified (but am not sure that i would), but wasn’t. So last thuseday i figgered that if it had happened i would hear it that evening and was very frightened. And when i’m frightened of one thing i’m at ones frightened of the whole world. Knowing the cauch of the fear didn’t provent that. I didn’t hear anything (and no one acted strange) and the most part of the fear has gone. But not all of it. I still have the feeling that it will happen. (And i’m still trying to tell my self that i must be crasy, that nothing will happen. But i can’t realy convince myself.) So, feelings aside, is this something you objectively expect to see happen?

Feelings aside, I realy don’t know. I would asume that there is a good change (or a bad change as the case would be), but i couldn’t realy say how big a change. I’m sorry that this will probebly sound very strange since i’m not telling what’s it about. But i won’t. Not now anyway. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking how i will react if/when it happens and i’ve decided that, if possible, i will act as if i didn’t know anything. It’s about something that (in a way) happened to me a few years ago. And altho i know there was nothing that i could have doen about it, i would have hated it if i had heard that some knew about it and did nothing. It’s okay — I don’t need to know what it’s about. I trust your judgment about that.

Thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <reversed next two lines Maybe is there something entirely different that you’re actually afraid? So the fear goes well beyond what it is you’re apparently afraid of? See above. And yes. The moment i’m frightened about something, i don’t know. It’s like all the fear i’ve ever "not" felt (but should have) is summened up and it comes all at ones. So i get frightened of litterly everything that could happen. Ranging from things that did happen, but actualy can’t hurt me anymore, to things that never have happened and probebly would never happen. And even if they did i *now* could handle them, ecxept offcours when i’m frightened. But when i’m frightened i, automaticly go into low profile. So again nothing happens. And i **know** this, but still….. i scared. It seems that there are times when these pooled-up feelings just need to be felt when you (generic you) are strong enough to handle them. Sort

^^^^^^ I’m not intirely sure about generic. I’m asuming you mean "the real me" of "your reward for getting strong is all the crappy things that would have destroyed you before." Fun.

Ye, real fun. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, the kind of fear that (sometimes) makes you wish that some-one would just threaten you with something. So that you’ld have a real situation to deal with. Of course, that would come when you were prepared for it or resigned to it. To be debilitating, it has to come when it’s unexpected. Yes. I’m almost all of the time prepared for anything (altho not so much as i used to), exept for the moments that my defents is, for some reason, dropped. Then i’m frightened as hell. I don’t have any control over my defents. It’s just usely there. Which is one of the main reason why i feel that fear is the only way forward. A large part of my defents consists of keeping people at arms lenght and i realy don’t want that (any more), but don’t know how to turn my defents off. It just happens at times and i hate it, but i also welcome<? it ;( Your boundaries have kept you safe, but at a cost. I would suggest you not be in a big hurry to drop them —

No i wont. I’ve seen what can happen then. just find people that you can find reasons to trust a little, and trust them a little. Drop the boundaries just a bit, but not all the way. Then see what happens. I’ve noticed in some folks, including me, a desire to find someone who sounds like you can trust them, and then drop all the boundaries and see what happens (what happens seems to be, in every instance, pain).

Never doen that. I can’t. Since, in a way, my defences are not controlled by me. I can’t do that. I have had times that i thought that my defences were working overtime. But never that they didn’t function when i wished they were. Maybe this is a stretch or maybe it’s just wrong, but could it be that this is just a sign that you feel safe enough about where you are (both physically and emotionally) that you can experience deep fear like this without it destroying you? That, perhaps, it’s important for you to feel that for some reason, and now you’re in a position that youc an do it? No your right. A few years ago it would have destroyed me. And in a way i’m glad that it happens, but…. (You know: 10yo, can hardly keep his eyes open and says; "bu..t mommy you promised that i could see this show." ;) ) It doesn’t make it fun.

No – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe this is where I got the above ideas. Could be that you need to process those feelings of what happened long ago before you will be able to see what really happened. Maybe the images you are getting are what actually happened, and maybe they are just intermediate images that still keep you at a safe distance from what actually happened — the mind does stuff like that to keep you safe. Both is possible. Don’t know at this point. No way of telling at this point. I expect that i will know in time. And if not it could be nice to just "watch" the images. They don’t provoke any feeling exept for a wage feeling that it is something that i have some how experienced. But at the moment the are "almost" nice to watch, just strange. Interesting (I keep saying that). Childish? I’m not sure how that would apply. You are having very real feelings — labeling them does nothing to make them go away. Fear is a feeling in the lives of adults, certainly. I don’t realy know, but i think it’s just the reaction i’m used to. That doesn’t sound like much fun. There are too many folks quick to point fingers, label and blame. I won’t edit. Don’t trust my news reader. Probably a good idea — this worked. ;( When i first started writing on aar i told myself never to edit. But you know. Every thing has to be perfect, or else… Perfectionism? What would I know about perfectionism? How could I possibly know anything about perfectionism? <if that’s not thick enough, I tip my hat

You don’t have to tip your had – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Henk ps something strange. I write an article and mention that i don’t receive all of the news. So you react by mail and in the newsgroup. I don’t get the article so i copy the mail to news and react there. You react again, by mail, and presumebly by news. But again i don’t get the article and again copy the mail to news. While doing that it occurs to me that it would be much easier to just react by mail. But i don’t. Well, this way we are doing this in public in aar, which has its advantages — it’s a discussion without flames, which I don’t think is going to destroy the group due to shock or anything. Reacting by mail would be asking for extra atention, and if you do that… Don’t realy know…. I’m trying to keep current on the thread, which is something I’m not really good at (on any thread). Keeping it here is probably good. Sending it by mail also would be okay.

Thanks. I’ll keep it here, but it is nice to know that it would be. This is _my_ trigger, isn’t it?? Yeah. Wanna look it over more closely?

No, i know it. But sometimes you have to say (write) it before you realy do. (Even saying this gives me a guelty feeling) :’-) Hmm. Henk ter Heide Take care, Blain

Henk I’ve been having trueble(sp) with downloading news lately. I get about halve of the articles that are post. If you want to react, pleas email and post me. Henk ter Heide The Netherlands Support the anti-Spam amendment … read more »

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Copied from mail That makes it real enough to have a feeling about, certainly. Hasn’t happened (jet). But i still have the feeling that it will happen. I’m not as scared as i was yersterday, but still scared. Altho right now it comes and goes.

Does it seem to have anything really to do with things going on outside? Or does it have more to do with where you are? People will hurt you sometimes — one way or another. Life is pain — not constantly, of course, but pain is always an option. Yes i know. But i also have the feeling that i’m frightened about things that in actual fact would never happen. Or if they would, things i could handle.

So the fear goes well beyond what it is you’re apparently afraid of? Maybe is there something entirely different that you’re actually afraid? You know, the kind of fear that (sometimes) makes you wish that some-one would just threaten you with something. So that you’ld have a real situation to deal with.

Of course, that would come when you were prepared for it or resigned to it. To be debilitating, it has to come when it’s unexpected. Actual this is just one of the things. Under normal condition i _know_ which words i spell correct and which i don’t. The moment i’m scared i feel that every thing is wrong.

Interesting. Actualy nothing _could_ have happened. My neighbor came home with one mate and was a minute later joined by an other mate (also a neighbor). But the second mate is in a wheelchair, not a lot he can do. The neighbor has a slite disability which makes that he has a little difficulty with walking, let alone fighting. And the first mate is a lot younger then both myself and my neighbor and is smaller than me. Under normal conditions i could have easely dealt with him without raising a finger. So the worst thing that could have happened was a shouting match. I knew all of this yesterday. While i was frightened as hell for what could have happened, i knew that nothing would happen. But still i only stopped shaking when they left.

Maybe this is a stretch or maybe it’s just wrong, but could it be that this is just a sign that you feel safe enough about where you are (both physically and emotionally) that you can experience deep fear like this without it destroying you? That, perhaps, it’s important for you to feel that for some reason, and now you’re in a position that youc an do it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually i have this before. Atrubuting(*) fear and anger to things that can’t really touch me. Have been doing that my whole live. I remember from about 5 years ago that i spent about 7 months being angry becouse they were planning to cut the benefits for old people in the US: I was 30yo didn’t live in the US, wasn’t planning on ever going to live in the US and in the back of my head i *knew* it was absolutely stupid to be mad about something that in no way could touch me. But none the less i was mad as hell. Looking back i know that it just was my way to handle being angry without knowing what i was angry about. At the moment it’s the same with the fear. I don’t realy know what it is that frightens me. At times i’m trying to remember, and at times i "remember" some imagis(sp: pictures). I don’t know whether they are things that realy happened or just imagimation. Altho at the moment i feel that it doesn’t realy matter whether it’s real or not. I just need to get the pictures clear in my mind.

Maybe this is where I got the above ideas. Could be that you need to process those feelings of what happened long ago before you will be able to see what really happened. Maybe the images you are getting are what actually happened, and maybe they are just intermediate images that still keep you at a safe distance from what actually happened — the mind does stuff like that to keep you safe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have an answer for that jump from the possible to the likely — certainly fears are not known for being good guides to rational behavior. I’m just noticing it and offering it to you for your consideration. Yes thanks, i know. In Dutch we have a saing: Fear is a bad advisor. (*) I’m not sure whether i’m translating this correctly. The dutch word is "projecteren", could maybe be translated as projecting. It means (difficult word to explain), don’t know how to explain it. The example that is usely used to explain it is: Say this man is very jelous(sp), but if you ask him about it. He will say that not he but his wife is jelous. Where in actual fact his wife isn’t jelous. So you either don’t accept that you have a feeling or characteristic or you do accept but you just don’t know what it is that

That word is commonly used in English as projecting. There is an Oriental saying that the best mirror in the world is the world itself, for what you see in others is what you are. That is, if you see something in someone else that you like, it is something that is a part of you that you like about yourself, and when you see something in someone else that you don’t like, it’s something that’s a part of you that you don’t like about yourself. This can lead to accusing others of things that you are doing, and those accusations would be projecting, as I understand the term. A Christian application of this idea is the notion of reaching to take the mote from another’s eye when you have a beam in your own. Aaaah! Just as i was starting to read my answer (to edit out any mistakes) my newsreader suffered a fatal error. For a moment i feared that i would have to write the whole thing for a second time…. But thank god only my ps has gone. <Histirical lauhter

Newsreaders can be annoying that way. I’ve lost some entire posts sometimes that way. I frequently lack the spirit to try to reconstruct them. Henk Ps (for the second time) Thanks for not saying that i’m childish. I know that no one would do that, but every time i admit to being frightened or being hurt i’m afraid that some one will.

Childish? I’m not sure how that would apply. You are having very real feelings — labeling them does nothing to make them go away. Fear is a feeling in the lives of adults, certainly. I won’t edit. Don’t trust my news reader.

Probably a good idea — this worked. I’ve been having trueble(sp) with downloading news lately. I get about halve of the articles that are post. If you want to react, pleas email and post me.

Done as you suggested. Henk ter Heide

Take care, Blain — http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/abuse

Response:

Again i didn’t get this in the news. Copied from mail That makes it real enough to have a feeling about, certainly. Hasn’t happened (jet). But i still have the feeling that it will happen. I’m not as scared as i was yersterday, but still scared. Altho right now it comes and goes. Does it seem to have anything really to do with things going on outside? Or does it have more to do with where you are?

No, this thing is real enough. Or not. I had a feeling a few moths ago that something (dutch: in de lucht hing = ) could happen/probebly would happen/is possible to happen (not entirely sure how to translate it. I thought alot about it and as far as i can make out it’s quite possibol and very likely. But what i think or don’t think doesn’t realy matter since i’ve still have the feeling that it will happen. In a way i’m surprised that it hasn’t jet happened. The last few moths i had a strong feeling that last saterday was the most likely day for it to happen. I expected to be notified (but am not sure that i would), but wasn’t. So last thuseday i figgered that if it had happened i would hear it that evening and was very frightened. And when i’m frightened of one thing i’m at ones frightened of the whole world. Knowing the cauch of the fear didn’t provent that. I didn’t hear anything (and no one acted strange) and the most part of the fear has gone. But not all of it. I still have the feeling that it will happen. (And i’m still trying to tell my self that i must be crasy, that nothing will happen. But i can’t realy convince myself.) I’m sorry that this will probebly sound very strange since i’m not telling what’s it about. But i won’t. Not now anyway. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking how i will react if/when it happens and i’ve decided that, if possible, i will act as if i didn’t know anything. It’s about something that (in a way) happened to me a few years ago. And altho i know there was nothing that i could have doen about it, i would have hated it if i had heard that some knew about it and did nothing. People will hurt you sometimes — one way or another. Life is pain — not constantly, of course, but pain is always an option. Yes i know. But i also have the feeling that i’m frightened about things that in actual fact would never happen. Or if they would, things i could handle.

<reversed next two lines Maybe is there something entirely different that you’re actually afraid? So the fear goes well beyond what it is you’re apparently afraid of?

See above. And yes. The moment i’m frightened about something, i don’t know. It’s like all the fear i’ve ever "not" felt (but should have) is summened up and it comes all at ones. So i get frightened of litterly everything that could happen. Ranging from things that did happen, but actualy can’t hurt me anymore, to things that never have happened and probebly would never happen. And even if they did i *now* could handle them, ecxept offcours when i’m frightened. But when i’m frightened i, automaticly go into low profile. So again nothing happens. And i **know** this, but still….. i scared. You know, the kind of fear that (sometimes) makes you wish that some-one would just threaten you with something. So that you’ld have a real situation to deal with. Of course, that would come when you were prepared for it or resigned to it. To be debilitating, it has to come when it’s unexpected.

Yes. I’m almost all of the time prepared for anything (altho not so much as i used to), exept for the moments that my defents is, for some reason, dropped. Then i’m frightened as hell. I don’t have any control over my defents. It’s just usely there. Which is one of the main reason why i feel that fear is the only way forward. A large part of my defents consists of keeping people at arms lenght and i realy don’t want that (any more), but don’t know how to turn my defents off. It just happens at times and i hate it, but i also welcome<? it ;( Actual this is just one of the things. Under normal condition i _know_ which words i spell correct and which i don’t. The moment i’m scared i feel that every thing is wrong. Interesting.

<Just me rumbeling along – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actualy nothing _could_ have happened. My neighbor came home with one mate and was a minute later joined by an other mate (also a neighbor). But the second mate is in a wheelchair, not a lot he can do. The neighbor has a slite disability which makes that he has a little difficulty with walking, let alone fighting. And the first mate is a lot younger then both myself and my neighbor and is smaller than me. Under normal conditions i could have easely dealt with him without raising a finger. So the worst thing that could have happened was a shouting match. I knew all of this yesterday. While i was frightened as hell for what could have happened, i knew that nothing would happen. But still i only stopped shaking when they left. Maybe this is a stretch or maybe it’s just wrong, but could it be that this is just a sign that you feel safe enough about where you are (both physically and emotionally) that you can experience deep fear like this without it destroying you? That, perhaps, it’s important for you to feel that for some reason, and now you’re in a position that youc an do it?

No your right. A few years ago it would have destroyed me. And in a way i’m glad that it happens, but…. (You know: 10yo, can hardly keep his eyes open and says; "bu..t mommy you promised that i could see this show." ;) ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually i have this before. Atrubuting(*) fear and anger to things that can’t really touch me. Have been doing that my whole live. I remember from about 5 years ago that i spent about 7 months being angry becouse they were planning to cut the benefits for old people in the US: I was 30yo didn’t live in the US, wasn’t planning on ever going to live in the US and in the back of my head i *knew* it was absolutely stupid to be mad about something that in no way could touch me. But none the less i was mad as hell. Looking back i know that it just was my way to handle being angry without knowing what i was angry about. At the moment it’s the same with the fear. I don’t realy know what it is that frightens me. At times i’m trying to remember, and at times i "remember" some imagis(sp: pictures). I don’t know whether they are things that realy happened or just imagimation. Altho at the moment i feel that it doesn’t realy matter whether it’s real or not. I just need to get the pictures clear in my mind. Maybe this is where I got the above ideas. Could be that you need to process those feelings of what happened long ago before you will be able to see what really happened. Maybe the images you are getting are what actually happened, and maybe they are just intermediate images that still keep you at a safe distance from what actually happened — the mind does stuff like that to keep you safe.

Both is possible. Don’t know at this point. I expect that i will know in time. And if not it could be nice to just "watch" the images. They don’t provoke any feeling exept for a wage feeling that it is something that i have some how experienced. But at the moment the are "almost" nice to watch, just strange. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have an answer for that jump from the possible to the likely — certainly fears are not known for being good guides to rational behavior. I’m just noticing it and offering it to you for your consideration. Yes thanks, i know. In Dutch we have a saing: Fear is a bad advisor. (*) I’m not sure whether i’m translating this correctly. The dutch word is "projecteren", could maybe be translated as projecting. It means (difficult word to explain), don’t know how to explain it. The example that is usely used to explain it is: Say this man is very jelous(sp), but if you ask him about it. He will say that not he but his wife is jelous. Where in actual fact his wife isn’t jelous. So you either don’t accept that you have a feeling or characteristic or you do accept but you just don’t know what it is that That word is commonly used in English as projecting. There is an Oriental saying that the best mirror in the world is the world itself, for what you see in others is what you are. That is, if you see something in someone else that you like, it is something that is a part of you that you like about yourself, and when you see something in someone else that you don’t like, it’s something that’s a part of you that you don’t like about yourself. This can lead to accusing others of things that you are doing, and those accusations would be projecting, as I understand the term. A Christian application of this idea is the notion of reaching to take the mote from another’s eye when you have a beam in your own.

Why is it that just as you accept the rule that no dutch word resambles an english word, you find the exception? Aaaah! Just as i was starting to read my answer (to edit out any mistakes) my newsreader suffered a fatal error. For a moment i feared that i would have to write the whole thing for a second time…. But thank god only my ps has gone. <Histirical lauhter Newsreaders can be annoying that way. I’ve lost some entire posts sometimes that way. I frequently lack the spirit to try to reconstruct them.

Yeh, and using a beta version doesn’t help, but it was adviced me to solve an other problem. Which it sadly didn’t do – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Henk Ps (for the second time) Thanks for not saying that i’m childish. I know that no one would do that, but every time i admit to being frightened or being hurt i’m afraid that some one will.

Response:

I’m scared as hell. Partly for something that i feel that has happened. Don’t know jet whether it is realy happened, i just have that feeling. The stupid thing is that at the moment i’m both hoping that it has happened and that it hasn’t happened. Both has concequences for me. Partly it’s just the fear i allways feel. Fear that people will hurt me. Most of the time i’m blocking that fear out, but i’m slowly coming to accept that the only way forward is to accept that fear and learn to handle it. It doesn’t feel as a panic attack, just as fear. And i do have medecines i could use to make the fear go away. But i don’t want to. That would just be a way of replacing one blocking mechanisme by an other. The difficult thing is that i’m now atrubuting my fear to anything that comes along. I’ve have had a problem with the alarm of my neighbor. I’ve complained to the owner of the building that seems to have solved the problem. But just now i was sitting on my balcony and my neighbor came home with one of his mates. He pointed at me and said something to his mate and i was ready to call the police(sp). I didn’t and offcours nothing happened. Within minutes they both left(sp), but for as long as they were there i feared that they would hurt me. Henk ps My newsfeed is very bad at the moment, i’m missing about have of the articles in this ng. If anyone wants to react please do so both by mail and in the group. Henk ter Heide Support the anti-Spam amendment The Netherlands

Response:

Copied from mail I’m scared as hell. I’m sorry about this. Partly for something that i feel that has happened. Don’t know jet whether it is realy happened, i just have that feeling. That makes it real enough to have a feeling about, certainly.

Hasn’t happened (jet). But i still have the feeling that it will happen. I’m not as scared as i was yersterday, but still scared. Altho right now it comes and goes. The stupid thing is that at the moment i’m both hoping that it has happened and that it hasn’t happened. Both has concequences for me. Partly it’s just the fear i allways feel. Fear that people will hurt me. People will hurt you sometimes — one way or another. Life is pain — not constantly, of course, but pain is always an option.

Yes i know. But i also have the feeling that i’m frightened about things that in actual fact would never happen. Or if they would, things i could handle. You know, the kind of fear that (sometimes) makes you wish that some-one would just threaten you with something. So that you’ld have a real situation to deal with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of the time i’m blocking that fear out, but i’m slowly coming to accept that the only way forward is to accept that fear and learn to handle it. Sounds good to me. It doesn’t feel as a panic attack, just as fear. And i do have medecines i could use to make the fear go away. But i don’t want to. That would just be a way of replacing one blocking mechanisme by an other. The difficult thing is that i’m now atrubuting my fear to anything that comes along. I’ve have had a problem with the alarm of my neighbor. I’ve complained to the owner of the building that seems to have solved the problem. But just now i was sitting on my balcony and my neighbor came home with one of his mates. He pointed at me and said something to his mate and i was ready to call the police(sp). I didn’t and offcours nothing happened. Within minutes they both left(sp), but for as long as they were there i feared that they would hurt me. You spelled police and left correctly.

Actual this is just one of the things. Under normal condition i _know_ which words i spell correct and which i don’t. The moment i’m scared i feel that every thing is wrong. There’s a jump in there, at least from what I was talking about before to what you are talking about here. What I was talking about before is that pain is an option — IOW, it *could* happen. It’s possible. In this case, it would mean that it was possible that those folks *could* come up and hurt you. What I hear from you is that you believed that this was likely — that there was a reasonable chance that they *would* come up and hurt you.

Actualy nothing _could_ have happened. My neighbor came home with one mate and was a minute later joined by an other mate (also a neighbor). But the second mate is in a wheelchair, not a lot he can do. The neighbor has a slite disability which makes that he has a little difficulty with walking, let alone fighting. And the first mate is a lot younger then both myself and my neighbor and is smaller than me. Under normal conditions i could have easely dealt with him without raising a finger. So the worst thing that could have happened was a shouting match. I knew all of this yesterday. While i was frightened as hell for what could have happened, i knew that nothing would happen. But still i only stopped shaking when they left. Actually i have this before. Atrubuting(*) fear and anger to things that can’t really touch me. Have been doing that my whole live. I remember from about 5 years ago that i spent about 7 months being angry becouse they were planning to cut the benefits for old people in the US: I was 30yo didn’t live in the US, wasn’t planning on ever going to live in the US and in the back of my head i *knew* it was absolutely stupid to be mad about something that in no way could touch me. But none the less i was mad as hell. Looking back i know that it just was my way to handle being angry without knowing what i was angry about. At the moment it’s the same with the fear. I don’t realy know what it is that frightens me. At times i’m trying to remember, and at times i "remember" some imagis(sp: pictures). I don’t know whether they are things that realy happened or just imagimation. Altho at the moment i feel that it doesn’t realy matter whether it’s real or not. I just need to get the pictures clear in my mind. I don’t have an answer for that jump from the possible to the likely — certainly fears are not known for being good guides to rational behavior. I’m just noticing it and offering it to you for your consideration.

Yes thanks, i know. In Dutch we have a saing: Fear is a bad advisor. (*) I’m not sure whether i’m translating this correctly. The dutch word is "projecteren", could maybe be translated as projecting. It means (difficult word to explain), don’t know how to explain it. The example that is usely used to explain it is: Say this man is very jelous(sp), but if you ask him about it. He will say that not he but his wife is jelous. Where in actual fact his wife isn’t jelous. So you either don’t accept that you have a feeling or characteristic or you do accept but you just don’t know what it is that Take care, Blain

Aaaah! Just as i was starting to read my answer (to edit out any mistakes) my newsreader suffered a fatal error. For a moment i feared that i would have to write the whole thing for a second time…. But thank god only my ps has gone. <Histirical lauhter Henk Ps (for the second time) Thanks for not saying that i’m childish. I know that no one would do that, but every time i admit to being frightened or being hurt i’m afraid that some one will. I won’t edit. Don’t trust my news reader. I’ve been having trueble(sp) with downloading news lately. I get about halve of the articles that are post. If you want to react, pleas email and post me. Henk ter Heide The Netherlands Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/

Response:

I’m scared as hell.

I’m sorry about this. Partly for something that i feel that has happened. Don’t know jet whether it is realy happened, i just have that feeling.

That makes it real enough to have a feeling about, certainly. The stupid thing is that at the moment i’m both hoping that it has happened and that it hasn’t happened. Both has concequences for me. Partly it’s just the fear i allways feel. Fear that people will hurt me.

People will hurt you sometimes — one way or another. Life is pain — not constantly, of course, but pain is always an option. Most of the time i’m blocking that fear out, but i’m slowly coming to accept that the only way forward is to accept that fear and learn to handle it.

Sounds good to me. It doesn’t feel as a panic attack, just as fear. And i do have medecines i could use to make the fear go away. But i don’t want to. That would just be a way of replacing one blocking mechanisme by an other. The difficult thing is that i’m now atrubuting my fear to anything that comes along. I’ve have had a problem with the alarm of my neighbor. I’ve complained to the owner of the building that seems to have solved the problem. But just now i was sitting on my balcony and my neighbor came home with one of his mates. He pointed at me and said something to his mate and i was ready to call the police(sp). I didn’t and offcours nothing happened. Within minutes they both left(sp), but for as long as they were there i feared that they would hurt me.

You spelled police and left correctly. There’s a jump in there, at least from what I was talking about before to what you are talking about here. What I was talking about before is that pain is an option — IOW, it *could* happen. It’s possible. In this case, it would mean that it was possible that those folks *could* come up and hurt you. What I hear from you is that you believed that this was likely — that there was a reasonable chance that they *would* come up and hurt you. I don’t have an answer for that jump from the possible to the likely — certainly fears are not known for being good guides to rational behavior. I’m just noticing it and offering it to you for your consideration. Henk ps My newsfeed is very bad at the moment, i’m missing about have of the articles in this ng. If anyone wants to react please do so both by mail and in the group.

Ok, I’ve cced it to you as well. Hopefully things will get straightened out. Henk ter Heide

Take care, Blain — Who put the morning people in charge, anyway?

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