Trauma – PTSD

Question:

I’ve decided that today, all anxiety will be illegal. If you have any anxiety today you will be breaking the law, and the punishment will be to have your bottom smacked with a stick of celery. If you feel any anxiety today, remember this post, remember the celery, have a little chuckle to yourself, and the anxiety will fade away. Yours sincerely, The Anxiety Police, Celery Division ‘In celery we trust’ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ve decided that today, all anxiety will be illegal. If you have any anxiety today you will be breaking the law, and the punishment will be to have your bottom smacked with a stick of celery. If you feel any anxiety today, remember this post, remember the celery, have a little chuckle to yourself, and the anxiety will fade away. Yours sincerely, The Anxiety Police, Celery Division ‘In celery we trust’

Whatchoo got against celery???  ;o) And I always thought the thrashing was w/a wet noodle…. —

Question:

Is anyone using 5-htp with good results for anxiety, etc.?  Also has anyone heard or used Shankapushpi? Thanks. John

Response:

heard of it but don’t use it. i use l-theanine and it has helped me alot

Response:

heard of it but don’t use it. i use l-theanine and it has helped me alot

Thanks.  I looked it up and it looks promising.  Presently I’m about 2 weeks into the withdrawal phase after a long weaning off of Zoloft.  I tapered down to nothing over about a 3 month period and have been completely off for about 2 weeks now.  I’m still having a lot of dizziness and zaps and paranoia–I understand this can go on for about 8 weeks?  I am *not* going back on that stuff! 5htp has been helping but am looking for something long term.  I guess I have sort of a mix of anxiety/depression, post traumatic stress, and ocd from major surgery in the past.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

Question:

<gently snipped ::Tell me, what ::genre of music do you listen to the most ? I love "alternative" music. ::Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what ::works for you. I’ll try it. I like instrumental music for frazzled nerves. I highly recommend the "Birth" and "Girl with a Pearl Earring" soundtracks. Jackie ~*~"Strange, isn’t it? "Each man’s life touches so many other lives, and when he isn’t around he leaves an awful hole, doesn’t he?"~*~ ~ Clarence ~ George Bailey’s Guardian Angel from the film, "It’s a Wonderful Life" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <gently snipped ::Tell me, what ::genre of music do you listen to the most ? I love "alternative" music. ::Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what ::works for you. I’ll try it. I like instrumental music for frazzled nerves. I highly recommend the "Birth" and "Girl with a Pearl Earring" soundtracks. Jackie ~*~"Strange, isn’t it?

I like music thats soothing, beautiful and melodic.  I listen to a lot of movie scores and contempory classical stuff.  I like to rock sometimes though too – so I also listen to a lot of heavy metal stuff. — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m writing this while listening to Delbert Mcclinton

<snip I saw Delbert Mcclinton open for Willie Nelson in Houston in 1981. He does wear those jeans very nicely    Oh, and he also plays the best harmonica I’ve ever heard. <snip Some in Canada and the USA, are trying to change Merry Christmas to Happy Hollidays. Come on now, being politicaly correct has it’s limits. Ramada, Hachuna, etc will remain a secular right. I believe that there was a man named Jesus, therefor I guess I’m a Christrian…..a Xmas tree is still a Xmas tree. I don’t think that should offend anyone’s sensibilities. What the hell is wrong with us ?  LJ

I guess I don’t have a problem with a public display by any religious group, as long as tax revenue isn’t being used to fund any aspect of it.  It’s hard to find where to draw the line when emotions run high. I hope you’re enjoying the holiday season, LJ  :-) Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

"We are being taught to be afraid to stand up for anything because it might what they are and display their own symbols instead of being turned into PC mush." amen. Gary  (I was real damn offended by running from the WTC towers as they fell – but they fell anyway, due to people who would be "offended" by the country’s capital having a Christmas Tree?)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m writing this while listening to Delbert Mcclinton and Roy Buchanan. So of course I’m going to wax poetic. The "Blues", is everyone’s song. Especially ours. Love the blues. I don’t think Hip-Hop addresses anxiety as we know it. Celine Dion is way to happy for us to relate. Carly Simon as many know, quit performing because of Panic Disorder. She therefore knows the blues. I very seldom listen to music. Used to love it. Tell me, what genre of music do you listen to the most ? If you’re over 45, do you believe that the music died with the demise of Ritchie, the Bopper etc. What would Hendrix be playing now if still alive ? Granted, there are some songs today that are refreshing, but very few. Music hit a brick wall in the 80’s and has never recovered. I like a lot of different music but I must admit that RAP to me, is misspelled and is missing a C at the beginning. Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what works for you. I’ll try it. OK., one more shot of Scotch, one more cigarette and I’ll try to get my cat to come in, it’s -6 degrees celsius, for US citizens, very cold. Some in Canada and the USA, are trying to change Merry Christmas to Happy Hollidays. Come on now, being politicaly correct has it’s limits. Ramada, Hachuna, etc will remain a secular right. I believe that there was a man named Jesus, therefor I guess I’m a Christrian…..a Xmas tree is still a Xmas tree. I don’t think that should offend anyone’s sensibilities. I am not religious at all and I find this "Happy Hollidays" stuff totally out of line and disrespectful of the culture of the majority of us in North America. Someone a few years back wished me a "Happy Holliday" and I asked in reply to which holliday he was referring naming a few but he couldn’t answer me….I got a real chuckle out of that. Custom says that here we celebrate Christmas. I have relatives who have a Jewish heritage and they celebrate Hanukkah (sp). Where I worked, there was a real mix of cultures and and greeting were Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and a few others that were appropriate for the time of year. What the hell is wrong with us ?  LJ We are being taught to be afraid to stand up for anything because it might of what they are and display their own symbols instead of being turned into PC mush. — Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what works for you. I’ll try it.

Classical music. Especially baroque composers, and composers of the classical era such as Haydn and Mozart. (I’m listening to Mozart piano music right now…..very peaceful and soothing) I believe that there was a man  named Jesus, therefor I guess I’m a

Christrian Not really. Jews, Muslims, and some agnostics and atheists believe there was a man named Jesus. But they don’t accept him as their God and Savior. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m writing this while listening to Delbert Mcclinton and Roy Buchanan. So of course I’m going to wax poetic. The "Blues", is everyone’s song. Especially ours. Love the blues. I don’t think Hip-Hop addresses anxiety as we know it. Celine Dion is way to happy for us to relate. Carly Simon as many know, quit performing because of Panic Disorder. She therefore knows the blues. I very seldom listen to music. Used to love it. Tell me, what genre of music do you listen to the most ? If you’re over 45, do you believe that the music died with the demise of Ritchie, the Bopper etc. What would Hendrix be playing now if still alive ? Granted, there are some songs today that are refreshing, but very few. Music hit a brick wall in the 80’s and has never recovered.

I like a lot of different music but I must admit that RAP to me, is misspelled and is missing a C at the beginning. Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what works for you. I’ll try it. OK., one more shot of Scotch, one more cigarette and I’ll try to get my cat to come in, it’s -6 degrees celsius, for US citizens, very cold. Some in Canada and the USA, are trying to change Merry Christmas to Happy Hollidays. Come on now, being politicaly correct has it’s limits. Ramada, Hachuna, etc will remain a secular right. I believe that there was a man named Jesus, therefor I guess I’m a Christrian…..a Xmas tree is still a Xmas tree. I don’t think that should offend anyone’s sensibilities.

I am not religious at all and I find this "Happy Hollidays" stuff totally out of line and disrespectful of the culture of the majority of us in North America. Someone a few years back wished me a "Happy Holliday" and I asked in reply to which holliday he was referring naming a few but he couldn’t answer me….I got a real chuckle out of that. Custom says that here we celebrate Christmas. I have relatives who have a Jewish heritage and they celebrate Hanukkah (sp). Where I worked, there was a real mix of cultures and and greeting were Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and a few others that were appropriate for the time of year. What the hell is wrong with us ?  LJ

We are being taught to be afraid to stand up for anything because it might what they are and display their own symbols instead of being turned into PC mush. — Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi LJ, I’m writing this while listening to Delbert Mcclinton and Roy Buchanan.

God, I love Delbert McClinton. I have LPs of his going back to the early 1980s. Love the blues.

Me too. Discovered the blues in 1969 when I was 18, and have always loved it. If you’re over 45, do you believe that the music died with the demise of Ritchie, the Bopper etc.

Well, I’m 54, and they were a bit before my time. Perhaps substitute "the Beatles" and "Hendrix" and "Jim Morrison," and you’d be closer to my generation’s musical affections. I think music is alive and well; all genres. There are just more genres today because new forms have arisen.  I actually believe our emotional response to music is hardwired in us. What would Hendrix be playing now if still alive ?

I wish we knew the answer to that!   And perhap even more so if you substituted Stevie Ray Vaughan in the question.  I miss his talent so terribly.  :-( Granted, there are some songs today that are refreshing, but very few. Music hit a brick wall in the 80’s and has never recovered.

I thought that too, but if you poke around, you’ll find some good stuff today. I still gravitate to blues-rock-derived popular music. Right now, for me, that means the White Stripes and Los Lonely Boys.  Plus BB King is still making wonderful music (blues) at age 80! Love that guy and have seen him several times live. Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what works for you. I’ll try it.

Norah Jones, Diana Krall,  Eva Cassidy. If you haven’t heard Eva, please try a few of her CD’s — start with Live at Blues Alley, and Songbird. Her stuff is available through Amazon.com. You can read about the amazing Eva at: http://evacassidy.org/eva/ a Xmas tree is still a Xmas tree. I don’t think that should offend anyone’s sensibilities.

I am sympathetic about this, but just want to mention that religious arguments usually come to grief on newsgroups!  I try to avoid them. What is wrong with us? Something about our mind’s chemistry is awry, perhaps exacerbated by live events that have triggered post-traumatic stress, or depression, or habituated fear, or all of the above. That’s my theory, anyway. I am fortunate that meds help me to a large extent, although I still suffer anxiety and panic at times. Hope you have a nice, if cold, Saturday. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m writing this while listening to Delbert Mcclinton and Roy Buchanan. So of course I’m going to wax poetic. The "Blues", is everyone’s song. Especially ours. Love the blues. I don’t think Hip-Hop addresses anxiety as we know it. Celine Dion is way to happy for us to relate. Carly Simon as many know, quit performing because of Panic Disorder. She therefore knows the blues. I very seldom listen to music. Used to love it. Tell me, what genre of music do you listen to the most ? If you’re over 45, do you believe that the music died with the demise of Ritchie, the Bopper etc. What would Hendrix be playing now if still alive ? Granted, there are some songs today that are refreshing, but very few. Music hit a brick wall in the 80’s and has never recovered. Is there music that helps sooth anxiety ? Many believe so. Tell me what works for you. I’ll try it. OK., one more shot of Scotch, one more cigarette and I’ll try to get my cat to come in, it’s -6 degrees celsius, for US citizens, very cold. Some in Canada and the USA, are trying to change Merry Christmas to Happy Hollidays. Come on now, being politicaly correct has it’s limits. Ramada, Hachuna, etc will remain a secular right. I believe that there was a man named Jesus, therefor I guess I’m a Christrian…..a Xmas tree is still a Xmas tree. I don’t think that should offend anyone’s sensibilities. What the hell is wrong with us ?  LJ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Damo, the rich have been fucking the poor for as long as i can remember. maybe this has gone on for thousands of years. the Democrats aren’t much better.  they just want to increase social programs, and expand government.  i don’t think they actually _care_ about schizophrenics. m.

Response:

Damo, i feel thoroughly fucked.  i can’t get a piece of land and live on wild cats and vegetables.  i am just a pawn of the rich people. m.

Response:

35.8 million people in the United States — 12.5 percent of the population — live below the federal poverty line. An estimated 4.3 million people slipped into poverty between 2000 and 2003. 12.9 million children currently live in poverty. Yet we have "incentives" that are realistically not acheivable with the criteria we must meet in order to receive them…. under Bush, there is really no way for low to middle class families to get help. I think the next president will win with promises to change what bush has done.. the only thing  I did think bush said that was accurate was that kerry was making empty promises… we really dont have the money to do everything he promised… but it would have been great if we had.. Actually, we do have the money, its just that someone would always be losing something.. military, schools, welfare, the rich and their tax cuts ( which I think they should a portion of, and only get if they do some  sort of public service) So, Its a good thing that the next election will not include Bush any longer might cause even more irreversible damage… I dont know. My dad is a republican and works in the oil industry, based out of texas but works on a rig in russia.. so he obviously voted for bush. I tried to vote but they would never send me a ballot and I was on bedrest pregnant so I couldnt get out and get it myself. I am sorry about your benefits. I also appreciate your petitioning etc. Ive talked too much. -kim

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what do you think about that? -kim

Response:

I KNOW that, this year, after the medicre increases my monthly check was smaller after the cost of living increase. They TOOK money from me. I get under 500 a month as it is. Much of my food I get from Food Pantry give aways or I’d starve. I KNOW that the soup kitchen has had to cut back on meals and that the YWCA had to curtail daycare for the spanish working families because of the Grant Cuts to the Faith Based Groups and Private welfare programs. These things are GOVERNMENTAL responsiblities. After all they said it was only double talk and a plan to INCREASE the stressors on the poor, fixed income, elderly and disabled. No "kinder gentler" Reaganesque truth at all. It was all a Republican plot to KILL us. Many die because of what this administration has done to social programs. The republicans ducked out of their responsibilities and gave it to "Faith Based" and private concerns…… Then once they could simply AX em, they did. After all, its not the Government refusing to answer its social responsibilities. Is it? After all G.Busch  has to pay for our foreign adventurism in Iraq and provide tax cuts to corporations and rich people and ax pollution stantards for Industry and that money has to come from the soft underbelly of America. The poor. And these same policys also get more poor people’s kids in the army to help feed HalBurton. The state of New Jersey just assumed the new co-payments the Federal administration put on my prescription drugs. Thank you New Jersey for protecting me from the butchers and tyrants who rule my country. Shall I go on, Kim? I think the administration will make it be big money for drug companies and will dump responsibility on the poor. Thats what these pirates and thieves and liars do. It won’t stop. I’ve made three demonstrations and signed several petitions in the last three months. I’m not just talk on this. Yes….they actually reduced my check this year. Damo

Response:

MSNBC WASHINGTON – The United States can start to transform its fragmented mental health care system requiring insurers to treat mental illnesses like any other disease, a group of 16 organizations proposed Wednesday. The coalition of groups laid out a 28-point "road map" for Congress and the administration "We proposed quite a few changes which we believe can be done in the short term," Charles Konigsberg, director of the Campaign for Mental Health Reform, said in a telephone interview. For one, Congress could enact the mental health parity legislation that has been pending. Medicaid could use its money more wisely by paying for cost-effective home care instead of institutionalized care, he added. Families should be allowed to buy into Medicaid, the state-federal health insurance plan for the poor, to get access to treatment for their children. "Medicare unfortunately discriminates against people with mental illness by requiring higher co-payments for mental health outpatient care. That could be fixed," Konigsberg added. Current system ‘in disarray’ The groups, including several national mental health advocacy organizations, said they were acting on President Bush’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health Report, released in 2003. It found that the system designed to provide services to people who need mental health care is "fragmented and in disarray, lead(ing) to unnecessary and costly disability, homelessness, school failure and incarceration." It called for a "fundamental transformation of the Nation’s approach to mental health care." "Yet, since the release of the commission’s report, 63,000 Americans have died by suicide; more than 200,000 Americans with mental illnesses have been incarcerated; more than 25,000 families have given up custody of their children in order to get mental health services," said Michael Faenza, president of the National Mental Health Association. The groups estimate there are 20 million U.S. adults and 6 million children and teenagers in the U.S. with serious mental illness. These include people with schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disease and less obvious disorders as well. "War veterans and 9/11 first-responders with traumatic stress; children suffering with disorders that, untreated, can lead to school failure; people with severe depression that can lead to suicide; homeless adults suffering hallucinations and hunger; people suffering in silence due to stigma or lack of accessible treatment-all deserve the hope, dignity and promise of productive lives," Konigsberg said. Among the 28 proposals, which can be found on the Internet at www.mhreform.org: Provide early identification and effective treatment for returning veterans at risk of post-traumatic stress disorders and their families Provide early detection and intervention services to mothers and children who receive health care at federally funded maternal and child health clinics Fund programs to divert people with mental illnesses who have committed nonviolent crimes into treatment instead of jail or prison. Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., said he hoped to get parity legislation passed this year. "More and more employers understand that the cost of not providing mental health treatment is hurting their bottom line, because of lost work and lost productivity," Kennedy added in a statement.

Response:

Question:

I am beginning to realize that my problem is not social anxiety/social phobia. My problem is that I am too intense and have conditioned myself to be too excited. Social anxiety helped me become too intense but I am not really socially anxious anymore or know how to avoid situations that provoke social anxiety. I’m  wondering if there is any good papers on this.

Response:

gty wrote: > I am beginning to realize that my problem is not social anxiety/social > phobia. My problem is that I am too intense and have conditioned > myself to be too excited. Social anxiety helped me become too intense > but I am not really socially anxious anymore or know how to avoid > situations that provoke social anxiety. I’m  wondering if there is > any good papers on this.

I’m kind of going to change the subject a little. There’s that theory that I buy into that the kind of pregnancy our mums have has a large deal to do with how we perceive the world. So if our mom was very anxious when she was pregnant with us we believe on some level that is the normal state to be in in life and we will seek to recreate angst-ridden experiences in our lives later on. Because that’s normal, right? But I don’t have any solutions. Sorry. Best I can advise is if you see any pregnant women to tell them to relax. I was very relaxed with puppy and she’s a happy and social child. I am pleased I didn’t have her when I was still so at loggerheads with the world. Now there are a few less bad examples I can set for her. – Michaela — As a man was advancing in his years, and fell ill, he called one of his advisors close to him and said: "My son, hear me. When I was younger, I tried to change the world, and I failed. And as I my youth passed on, I came to focus on my country instead. And again, I could not affect change. As I fell very old, I tried only to make change within my own family, but by then, it was too late. And now I lie here ill, and I realize the truth. Had I just changed myself, my family would’ve changed with me. And together we’d have changed the country, and our country would’ve changed the world."

Response:

gty wrote: > I am beginning to realize that my problem is not social anxiety/social > phobia. My problem is that I am too intense and have conditioned myself > to be too excited. Social anxiety helped me become too intense but I am > not really socially anxious anymore or know how to avoid situations > that provoke social anxiety. I’m  wondering if there is any good papers > on this.

Hey, that’s really cool… it sounds like you’re on to something. I don’t know anything about it, but I wish you luck. — -=Lola —————- You’re living in your own private Idaho Living in your own private Idaho Underground like a wild potato. –B52s.

Response:

< I am beginning to realize that my problem is not social anxiety/social < phobia. How do YOU define those conditions? > My problem is that I am too intense and have conditioned myself > to be too excited.

Define also, please. KC

Response:

>I am beginning to realize that my problem is not social anxiety/social

phobia. My problem is that I am too intense and have conditioned myself to be too excited. Social anxiety helped me become too intense but I am not really socially anxious anymore or know how to avoid situations that provoke social anxiety. I’m  wondering if there is any good papers >on this.

  You might want to check out the websites on Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome because many Vietnam war veterans who were emotionally damaged in the intensity of battle now have all of those same symptoms which you described. I believe the medical community currently recommends Paxil as the drug of choice for it.

Response:

Question:

My parents filed for divorce. Not much to say on that one, they’ve been miserable with each other for years and I guess with empty nest they moved on to other people, another life. And to be quite truthful, I’m happy as one can be on that subject. I’d be happier if my mother did not continue to harp about my father. She has another individual that makes her happy and I think she’s spending too much negative energy towards Dad. And the same could go the other way. Dad’s undergoing Hep C treatments right now and he’s timesharing energy and emotions that he can’t afford to invest into something that should be dealt with and done. I haven’t spent that much time around Steve (mom’s guy) since the seperation but he’s always made her laugh (a former employee of their, Mom/dad, shared company) and she’s been able to talk to him about things that she’s not comfortable discussing with others. They bonded I suppose. Dad’s girlfriend, Cami, is the co-owner of the daycare that Abi has been going to (as well as Eve and Kallye my niece and now Donovon my nephew, 9 months btw) so she blended right in. We knew her, her family, everybody and it was like "family" to begin with because of so much in the last four-ish years. So it was kind of neat. I adore Cami though, she’s wonderful and beautiful and my mother would have nine fits to hades if she heard me say that. (Another one of those, I’m supposed to like Steve and hate Cami… yes it’s been a hell of a road on that part but I’ve always hated disrespecting my parents so I’ll leave it at that) Cami lost a husband to cancer about five years ago, and she’s also a registered nurse so she’s been a boon to my father during his treatments and we always have a very willing nurse to take care of minor emergencies and whatnot. The other day Abi cut a gash in her foot, by stepping on some glass, blood everywhere on the floor, soaking three paper towels.. I was in a panic. Without explaining all I had to do was call her when she and Dad went out on a "date" and ask that she come home quick. She was able to correctly determine Abi’s blood triggered me and I.. wasn’t very helpful .  She also has a four year old and oh.. Yeah, I like her… alot. I hope she stays around. The accident…. Since I’m on a vicodin high of sorts with this tooth, and I guess.. it’s time… Loosely put together… On Sunday afternoon my sister in law and her husband, my other sister in law, my  brother in law and his girlfriend and my father in law was over visiting. I was out of town. Jody was inside playing host cooking and cleaning up from cooking lunch for everybody else. The others were outside, in and out basically cleaning out our trailer because my sister in law and her husband bought it after we moved into the house. William, my brother in law, was backing up and at the same time Eve saw a toy next to the tire. There wasn’t anything anybody could do. She took off and everybody was out of reach and couldn’t stop her. I guess… But.. that’s what happened.  As brief as I can put it. I’m sure Bridget clued a few in, who told a few more so I’m assuming you know most of the details there. Grief therapy…. We’re seeing a counsellor that’s done wonders for us. She’s helped Jody with his post traumatic stress and coached him through completing his grief process over his mother which he never fully finished (as much as you can be) before this accident. She’s also helped clear up a few marital issues that we’ve had. What was going on before the accident became a moot point, a non issue but to keep them from popping up years later we’re wading through them as a precaution of sorts. Which makes it a very very easy process  because neither one of us is arguing about it. Mary and I had a disagreement the other day. She said to call her cell phone (which she gave us first day and rarely gives it to clients) if I need to during the holidays. Mary has fibro. I flat out refused, saying that she has a full day number one, number two she may not feel physically and mentally ready to deal with my grief after hours because honestly, it’s going to pass regardless if I speak to her or not. A rough night, or day, or hour is a fact of life right now and will be the rest of our lives. She helps, I wouldn’t trade in the hours with her for anything less than having Eve returned to us. That’s how important her place in my life is right now. And I believe she’s important in Jody’s too, but he’s a guy and just not *that* passionate about how well she’s been for us. But at the same time, talking to her isn’t going to prevent some of these emotions. So, I do find it hard to justify intruding in her offhours life.  I call certain family members for that sort of thing and talking to Jody or Cami really helps. If they were unavailable then yes I’d call Mary. Well, finally after a debate on whether or not I call her, we agreed if she is under the weather or is stressed or can’t talk or it’s a bad time, she’ll tell me. I trust her to tell me if she can’t do it, and she’ll trust me to call if I need her. She also said she’ll charge me so it’s not a "freebie" it’s a service that I’m paying for. Bah… that’s all second to the fact I know how tired and aching and bad she can feel some days, and if she’s not in the office because of it, then there’s a reason. etc etc. Mary said that Abi’s adjusting well. Abi goes to see Ronda who has kidlets her age (Ronda is Cami’s sister and second owner of the daycare) and spends the night once in a while there. While we were in Vegas last week, more on that in a bit, Cami and Dad took Abi and Adam (her son) to a birthday party, to the skating rink and all sorts of other things. Cami and Abi went shopping too so she’s a very social child and Mary indicated that’s healthy and indicative of a well adapting child to the accident. Of course she’s going to have rough days, we all are but overall she’s doing very good. She’s missed quite a few days of school, but she’s maintained the honor roll. I spoke to the school board president (my dentist actually) and he assured me that we can get the missed days waived if she goes over her allotted amount. Because some days I don’t want her to be out of my sight either, so I keep her home just to be near her. Explaining that, he said he doubted I’d find anyone who didn’t understand. So no worries on Abi’s part . Vegas.. We spent five days there, two days drive there and two days back. I was a tired puppy. But we saw a Cirque du Soleil show, a couple Vegas style shows and walked the entire strip in one day. I enjoyed it the first two days but nine days was a long time to be gone. Abi stayed with Dad and Cami the entire time, had a blast and rarely missed Mommy . (Mom stays on the road with her guy, he’s a long haul truck driver similar to Dan M.). We stayed in the Mandalay Bay Hotel and saw their predator aquarium exhibit. They host the only USA located hammerhead shark, which was truly awesome. They also had sawtooth fish, a great white and a few other sharks. I saw my first swimming sea turtle as well, a gorgeous creature. I think that’s about it. I’ll update again in a little while if I think of anything else. I think it’s the vicodin for my root canal, I truly do, that is making me chatty this morning. Ordinarily I haven’t  been this talkative in a while.. It’s nice to be relaxed for a change.  But now my eyes are beginning to cross . Love ya’ll!!

Response:

{{{{Grace}}}}} Wishing you well in all things, and swift recovery from the root canal (I *hate* those things!). Ginger-lyn

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vegas.. We spent five days there, two days drive there and two days back. I was a tired puppy. But we saw a Cirque du Soleil show, a couple Vegas style shows and walked the entire strip in one day. I enjoyed it the first two days but nine days was a long time to be gone. Abi stayed with Dad and Cami the entire time, had a blast and rarely missed Mommy . (Mom stays on the road with her guy, he’s a long haul truck driver similar to Dan M.). We stayed in the Mandalay Bay Hotel and saw their predator aquarium exhibit. They host the only USA located hammerhead shark, which was truly awesome. They also had sawtooth fish, a great white and a few other sharks. I saw my first swimming sea turtle as well, a gorgeous creature. I think that’s about it. I’ll update again in a little while if I think of anything else. I think it’s the vicodin for my root canal, I truly do, that is making me chatty this morning. Ordinarily I haven’t  been this talkative in a while.. It’s nice to be relaxed for a change.  But now my eyes are beginning to cross . Love ya’ll!!

I love aquariums, if you’re ever in Tampa check out the Tampa Bay Aquar. Bostons New England Aquar. is great too. Maybe vicodin is a "good thing". Yes I’m avoiding the emotional items. I’m more articulate in person. {{{{{hugs}}}}} for you all. Suz  Macmoosette =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^=      "People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life."      –Faith Resnick |__/| (=’:'=) (")_(")

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<snip Grace update Hugz to you & yours. Yowie — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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I think that’s about it. I’ll update again in a little while if I think of anything else. I think it’s the vicodin for my root canal, I truly do, that is making me chatty this morning. Ordinarily I haven’t  been this talkative in a while.. It’s nice to be relaxed for a change.  But now my eyes are beginning to cross .

Purrs and hugs for you all, Gracie.  It sounds like you are progressing normally and, though dealing with a lot, are doing well.  BTW, you shouldn’t whisper gaming sites to my daughter, the two of you have me addicted to some stupid Yahoo game. Pam S. giggling

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I think that’s about it. I’ll update again in a little while if I think of anything else. I think it’s the vicodin for my root canal, I truly do, that is making me chatty this morning. Ordinarily I haven’t  been this talkative in a while.. It’s nice to be relaxed for a change.  But now my eyes are beginning to cross . Love ya’ll!!

We love ya back, Gracie, and we’re happy to see you back. Hugs and purrs to you and your family. Sam.

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sending purrs that you recover quickly. I said I wasn’t going to post for a while, but I had to respond to this one just to tell you I’m so glad you’re back and posting again.  I haven’t gotten to know you very well because I fairly new "again", having been away from the group for years (I’m one of the original rpc’ers who was abducted and took a trip on the mothership for a while).  So I’m dearly looking forward to getting to know you lots better soon. Hugs, CatNipped

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My parents filed for divorce. Not much to say on that one, they’ve been miserable with each other for years and I guess with empty nest they moved on to other people, another life. And to be quite truthful, I’m happy as one can be on that subject. I’d be happier if my mother did not continue to harp about my father. She has another individual that makes her happy and I think she’s spending too much negative energy towards Dad. And the same could go the other way. Dad’s undergoing Hep C treatments right now and he’s timesharing energy and emotions that he can’t afford to invest into something that should be dealt with and done. I haven’t spent that much time around Steve (mom’s guy) since the seperation but he’s always made her laugh (a former employee of their, Mom/dad, shared company) and she’s been able to talk to him about things that she’s not comfortable discussing with others. They bonded I suppose. Dad’s girlfriend, Cami, is the co-owner of the daycare that Abi has been going to (as well as Eve and Kallye my niece and now Donovon my nephew, 9 months btw) so she blended right in. We knew her, her family, everybody and it was like "family" to begin with because of so much in the last four-ish years. So it was kind of neat. I adore Cami though, she’s wonderful and beautiful and my mother would have nine fits to hades if she heard me say that. (Another one of those, I’m supposed to like Steve and hate Cami… yes it’s been a hell of a road on that part but I’ve always hated disrespecting my parents so I’ll leave it at that) Cami lost a husband to cancer about five years ago, and she’s also a registered nurse so she’s been a boon to my father during his treatments and we always have a very willing nurse to take care of minor emergencies and whatnot. The other day Abi cut a gash in her foot, by stepping on some glass, blood everywhere on the floor, soaking three paper towels.. I was in a panic. Without explaining all I had to do was call her when she and Dad went out on a "date" and ask that she come home quick. She was able to correctly determine Abi’s blood triggered me and I.. wasn’t very helpful .  She also has a four year old and oh.. Yeah, I like her… alot. I hope she stays around. The accident…. Since I’m on a vicodin high of sorts with this tooth, and I guess.. it’s time… Loosely put together… On Sunday afternoon my sister in law and her husband, my other sister in law, my  brother in law and his girlfriend and my father in law was over visiting. I was out of town. Jody was inside playing host cooking and cleaning up from cooking lunch for everybody else. The others were outside, in and out basically cleaning out our trailer because my sister in law and her husband bought it after we moved into the house. William, my brother in law, was backing up and at the same time Eve saw a toy next to the tire. There wasn’t anything anybody could do. She took off and everybody was out of reach and couldn’t stop her. I guess… But.. that’s what happened.  As brief as I can put it. I’m sure Bridget clued a few in, who told a few more so I’m assuming you know most of the details there. Grief therapy…. We’re seeing a counsellor that’s done wonders for us. She’s helped Jody with his post traumatic stress and coached him through completing his grief process over his mother which he never fully finished (as much as you can be) before this accident. She’s also helped clear up a few marital issues that we’ve had. What was going on before the accident became a moot point, a non issue but to keep them from popping up years later we’re wading through them as a precaution of sorts. Which makes it a very very easy process  because neither one of us is arguing about it. Mary and I had a disagreement the other day. She said to call her cell phone (which she gave us first day and rarely gives it to clients) if I need to during the holidays. Mary has fibro. I flat out refused, saying that she has a full day number one, number two she may not feel physically and mentally ready to deal with my grief after hours because honestly, it’s going to pass regardless if I speak to her or not. A rough night, or day, or hour is a fact of life right now and will be the rest of our lives. She helps, I wouldn’t trade in the hours with her for anything less than having Eve returned to us. That’s how important her place in my life is right now. And I believe she’s important in Jody’s too, but he’s a guy and just not *that* passionate about how well she’s been for us. But at the same time, talking to her isn’t going to prevent some of these emotions. So, I do find it hard to justify intruding in her offhours life.  I call certain family members for that sort of thing and talking to Jody or Cami really helps. If they were unavailable then yes I’d call Mary. Well, finally after a debate on whether or not I call her, we agreed if she is under the weather or is stressed or can’t talk or it’s a bad time, she’ll tell me. I trust her to tell me if she can’t do it, and she’ll trust me to call if I need her. She also said she’ll charge me so it’s not a "freebie" it’s a service that I’m paying for. Bah… that’s all second to the fact I know how tired and aching and bad she can feel some days, and if she’s not in the office because of it, then there’s a reason. etc etc. Mary said that Abi’s adjusting well. Abi goes to see Ronda who has kidlets her age (Ronda is Cami’s sister and second owner of the daycare) and spends the night once in a while there. While we were in Vegas last week, more on that in a bit, Cami and Dad took Abi and Adam (her son) to a birthday party, to the skating rink and all sorts of other things. Cami and Abi went shopping too so she’s a very social child and Mary indicated that’s healthy and indicative of a well adapting child to the accident. Of course she’s going to have rough days, we all are but overall she’s doing very good. She’s missed quite a few days of school, but she’s maintained the honor roll. I spoke to the school board president (my dentist actually) and he assured me that we can get the missed days waived if she goes over her allotted amount. Because some days I don’t want her to be out of my sight either, so I keep her home just to be near her. Explaining that, he said he doubted I’d find anyone who didn’t understand. So no worries on Abi’s part . Vegas.. We spent five days there, two days drive there and two days back. I was a tired puppy. But we saw a Cirque du Soleil show, a couple Vegas style shows and walked the entire strip in one day. I enjoyed it the first two days but nine days was a long time to be gone. Abi stayed with Dad and Cami the entire time, had a blast and rarely missed Mommy . (Mom stays on the road with her guy, he’s a long haul truck driver similar to Dan M.). We stayed in the Mandalay Bay Hotel and saw their predator aquarium exhibit. They host the only USA located hammerhead shark, which was truly awesome. They also had sawtooth fish, a great white and a few other sharks. I saw my first swimming sea turtle as well, a gorgeous creature. I think that’s about it. I’ll update again in a little while if I think of anything else. I think it’s the vicodin for my root canal, I truly do, that is making me chatty this morning. Ordinarily I haven’t  been this talkative in a while.. It’s nice to be relaxed for a change.  But now my eyes are beginning to cross . Love ya’ll!!

Ooo. Purrs for your poor mouth. I hate root canals. VIcodin is a weird drug. I got it after surgery, probably actually liked it a little too much. It’s a good thing it’s not OTC. You’ve got a wonderful attitude about your parents. It’s a giant plus that you like Cami, too. Take care of yourself! Sherry

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Question:

Until I figure out how to reply saving the poster’s quotes, I’ll try this: Aqua Girl: I’m glad you’ve been doing better, and I’m so sorry you have had to go through this alone.  I’m sure the aloneness will be temporary because you’re a wonderful person.  As for the depression, Larry is either a high functioning depressive, or he is just generally apathetic person because very little makes him happy or excited. It’s been hard to pin him with the depression label because he functions at work and exercises, whereas when I get depressed, I get that stuck to the chair syndrome along with a feeling of mild that dementia accompanies depression.  It’s hard to know what someone’s baseline mood is. We aren’t married, although I wish we were. Another long story, but I’m not happy about it.  I sometimes wonder if after he has SVR maybe he’ll leave. He swears this is not true, and doesn’t want to get remarried because of the bad divorice.  At this stage, the last thing I would ever do was put pressure on him.  I would still want him to be cured no matter what, even if it meant not being with me.  I never thought I’d be this altruistic – if something happened and he left me, I probably would not feel this way. I’ll turn into a madwoman or something. Having read your comments, I also am less worried about having to run to the ER.  The worry just has a life of its own now. To Gordo: Thanks so much for all the ideas about coping in the relationship. I’m glad you are trying to take care of yourself Gordo and hope you keep hanging in.  It does make sense to have some signal that you’ve both agreed on ahead of time.  I hope it works, as sometimes I ramble on and it gets on Larry’s nerves.  I guess in most relationships, people aren’t always like 2 peas in a pod, but I’ve know some people who are like identical twins and never have to tell each other anything – maybe this comes with time spent together or something. As for the fat content info, okay, I see now what you mean. As for where to give the shot, with a lean body. Where’s the beef? Or, I should say the fat? Dr. Elmo, I didn’t realize you did tx 3 times.  I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through this and I don’t know your current situation is.  But I know you’ve had to be tough to live through this. You are so great to help so many people, and I have no idea where you get the energy. Well, off to dream land.  Everyone try to stay sane.  I know it’s not as easy as it sounds.   Must conserve my energy for when the snow falls.  If any of you guys out there don’t have to suffer through winters with snow, that’s a real bonus. It’s not as easy as it sounds.  Well, stay sane everyone. That’s not as easy as it sounds either, I know. Will keep you posted. -Wendela

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"Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ga_mondragon-702B5A.15104412122004@news-server.nj.rr.com… > Think of his being strong and healthy as a really good base from which > to start the treatment. > I don’t know if it would be appropriate for anyone else but I was using > a testosterone gel and I believe that may have helped me avoid muscle > loss.  I’m finding now after 24 weeks of treatment that I’m a lot > stronger than I thought I’d be.

My ears pricked up at this one. What is testosterone gel and how did you use it? Currently still paranoid about starting treatment and muscle loss. Jonathan

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In article <1102906752.154762.250…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  "Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote: > Until I figure out how to reply saving the poster’s quotes, I’ll > try this: > Aqua Girl: > I’m glad you’ve been doing better, and I’m so sorry you have had to go > through this alone.  I’m sure the aloneness will be temporary because > you’re a wonderful person.  As for the depression, Larry is either a > high functioning depressive, or he is just generally apathetic person > because very little makes him happy or excited.

I’d seriously consider asking the doctor about anti-depressants.  I am normally an annoyingly happy person by nature and this stuff had me crying at the slightest thing.   [....] > I’ll turn into a madwoman or something.

Until you’ve seen a real riba rage you haven’t seen mad. [....] > As for > where to give the shot, with a lean body. Where’s the beef? Or, I > should say the fat?

I’m fairly lean and I don’t have a lot of fat on the top of my thighs, but the needle is small enough that I could just pinch a big chunk of skin up and shoot into that.  Same on my stomach.  I think you’d have to have a really low bodyfat to have a problem injecting this stuff. > Must conserve my energy for when the snow > falls.  If any of you guys out there don’t have to suffer through > winters with snow, that’s a real bonus. It’s not as easy as it > sounds.

I still have leaves that I have to rake, so probably I’m going to have that nasty mess of snow and rotting leaves that’s so pretty to look at all winter

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In article <cpjii2$9c…@cpca14.uea.ac.uk>,  "Rasputin" <ras.pu…@btinternet.com> wrote: > "Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:ga_mondragon-702B5A.15104412122004@news-server.nj.rr.com… > > Think of his being strong and healthy as a really good base from which > > to start the treatment. > > I don’t know if it would be appropriate for anyone else but I was using > > a testosterone gel and I believe that may have helped me avoid muscle > > loss.  I’m finding now after 24 weeks of treatment that I’m a lot > > stronger than I thought I’d be. > My ears pricked up at this one. What is testosterone gel and how did you use > it? Currently still paranoid about starting treatment and muscle loss.

www.androgel.com, it’s also available as Testim.  It’s a topical version of testosterone. You smear it on non-hairy parts of your body and it soaks in slowly.   It’s not a large amount so it can be prescribed, much less than what people who use steroids for bodybuilding use.   Apparently different men’s testosterone levels can be very different, so all a test can tell you is if you’re in a pretty wide range of "normal", not if your levels have gone down over time.  So the theory is that raising them to your particular "normal" will help you as you get older.   It’s really a big science experiment, like prescribing estrogen to post-menopausal women, no one knows what the long-term effects are.  It had a definite effect on my body composition, changing my muscle/fat ratio back to how it was years ago and making muscle mass easier to sustain with less work.  I think it helped me do that during treatment.   As you can imagine, it’s very popular in the states if you have insurance that will pay for it.  It might be harder to get on the NHS.   I also don’t think that it has an impact on the liver but if you’ve got reduced functioning I’d check it out.

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Sorry can’t give you any advice but I know what you mean about first shot jitters – I am due for my first shot on 31st December. My hospital would not let me start over Christmas as I need to be observed weekly and they are all on holiday. Good luck. Jonathan

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In article <1103024129.653650.186…@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  "Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote: > Gordo Mondragon wrote: > > In article <1102906752.154762.250…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, > >  "Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote: > > I’d seriously consider asking the doctor about anti-depressants.  I > am > > normally an annoyingly happy person by nature and this stuff had me > > crying at the slightest thing. > This may not be a bad idea about the ADs. He’s in a bit of denial but I > am frantic. It takes my breath away just mentioning all of this. If I > didn’t have the chronic fatigue myself, and this is with mostly fevers > and fatigue I would not be so worried. I suffer from the depression.

For most people it’s manageable.  I wasn’t hell to live with, it was just no fun most of the time to be around me.   Are you worried more about dealing with him or him not being able to emotionally support you? [...] > > > I’ll turn into a madwoman or something. > > Until you’ve seen a real riba rage you haven’t seen mad. > Oh my gosh….he is very strong, yet he’s a 6 foot tall skinny thing > with a 28 inch waist. (and he’s muscular, 6 feet tall, medium build) > I’m afraid if someone pulls into his parking spot or a similar minor > offense, he’ll get out of the car and try and fight with them. It’s > rare when he flips out, but when he does he’s fearless.

Everyone has different stories with the rage – mine came out of nowhere, I am normally very hard to anger so it surprised me.  It would come up after I’d been up for a few hours.  The HATE would just pour off of me.   The only thing that worked during the worst of it for me was to get stoned, and then it just disappeared like magic.  Also I learned to keep my mouth shut when I was feeling it and the times it broke through my partner knew to keep HIS mouth shut. I didn’t have it the whole time, it came in about 1/3 of the way though and was only bad for a couple of weeks.  Then I got used to it, I guess, or just stayed stoned more. [...] > I should not talk much now, as I am encouraging him to read this board. > If he ever starts, I’ll just bow out and say goodbye and tell you his > user name. I want HIM to get involved and post.

That would be good, but he doesn’t you should stick around.   G

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Jonathan, I’m the GFriend (GF) of the person doing the tx. I’m too old to be a GF, but we live together and we’re not married, so I don’t know how to refer to myself.  The Schmuck!  (TS)  Just kidding , little Jewish humor. You don’t want to know what that means.  I have other heath issues: depression and CFS but we live together and he won’t post yet. I wish you luck.  The main thing is to try and find a support group there if you can. Is it the VA hospital? Will they give you the shots? Keep checking the board.  Review the old posts. I can’t recall if you’ve been here for a while. I like your name!! Wendy

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Gordo Mondragon wrote: > In article <1102906752.154762.250…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, >  "Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote: > I’d seriously consider asking the doctor about anti-depressants.  I am > normally an annoyingly happy person by nature and this stuff had me > crying at the slightest thing.

This may not be a bad idea about the ADs. He’s in a bit of denial but I am frantic. It takes my breath away just mentioning all of this. If I didn’t have the chronic fatigue myself, and this is with mostly fevers and fatigue I would not be so worried. I suffer from the depression. I hope he gets SVR out of this because it seems it is going to trash his life. I know, I have a couple days to get positive, but I’m a big baby sometimes. > [....] > > I’ll turn into a madwoman or something. > Until you’ve seen a real riba rage you haven’t seen mad.

Oh my gosh….he is very strong, yet he’s a 6 foot tall skinny thing with a 28 inch waist. (and he’s muscular, 6 feet tall, medium build) I’m afraid if someone pulls into his parking spot or a similar minor offense, he’ll get out of the car and try and fight with them. It’s rare when he flips out, but when he does he’s fearless. It does not matter how big the person is. I need a drink just recalling one incident when I had a frying pan in one hand, as I was calling the police with the other hand. And this was because someone hit his car (an adult) with a big softball, and the guy who did it was a raging bully lunatic type that no one in their right mind would go near let alone yell at. The blood just drained from my head, yet nothing actually happened.  I had post traumatic stress for 3 months after that little incident. The big guy just apoligized instead when I thought he would break every bone in Larrys little body. He can be fearless! I should not talk much now, as I am encouraging him to read this board. If he ever starts, I’ll just bow out and say goodbye and tell you his user name. I want HIM to get involved and post. > [....] > > As for > > where to give the shot, with a lean body. Where’s the beef? Or, I > > should say the fat? > I’m fairly lean and I don’t have a lot of fat on the top of my thighs, > but the needle is small enough that I could just pinch a big chunk of > skin up and shoot into that.  Same on my stomach.  I think you’d have to > have a really low bodyfat to have a problem injecting this stuff.

If I can get my nerve up, down the road maybe I can pinch a bit from his back and give him the shot. I am crying now and it’s not until Friday. We don’t even know if he takes the Riba first or does the shot first. > > Must conserve my energy for when the snow > > falls.  If any of you guys out there don’t have to suffer through > > winters with snow, that’s a real bonus. It’s not as easy as it > > sounds. > I still have leaves that I have to rake, so probably I’m going to have > that nasty mess of snow and rotting leaves that’s so pretty to look at > all winter

We had the snow melting and some freezing rain yesterday. Our city has no money and the jerk from the office said "they just aren’t driving carefully" when I told her people were having accidents and they needed to get the salt trucks out. Bull* that there were a few isolated patches. Hope you got some of the leaves out of the way. The mud gets to you on the warmer days. At least when you’re miserable people aren’t out in halter tops. The weather resonates with your mood, I guess. Well, off the subject, but just ignore me when I ramble.  Wind chill 15 F now.  Wendy

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AG said some very good things, Wendela. Her advice sounded pretty right on, to me. Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

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Pre First Shot Jitters for me   Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 9:33am (CST-2) From: shoegi…@verizon.net (Wendela) Hi, Larry is actually the dragon slayer, and I’m either horse or his princess, whichever I decide to be throughout this treatment which is starting this week. I guess because I eat like one, I feel more like a horse than a princess. He is going to do first shot on the 17th. I’m more upset than Larry about this, as he is a runner, avid exerciser and is stong and "healthy" minus a bum liver. I, on the other hand, had the fatigue syndrome (CFS) and I’ve had permanent side effects from 2 medicines I’ve taken in my life, plus a host of other crazy disorders. I’m afraid for us in every way, becuase life isn’t exactly peachy now, and he’s the support person for me, so it’s going to force me to get my negative butt in gear and be cheerful. It may kill me to muster up cheerfulness when I wake up daily after having vivid dreams, and I feel like I crawled out from under a rock. When he does become more ill, I don’t know how we’ll differentiate "normal" brain fog from depression. And when do you start taking the AD’s? He is resisting the idea because I’ve had memory problems from taking Luvox, an SSRI. I’ll never be the same. Maybe I wrote this earlier? It’s more my mid-term memory. My first question regards the shot. Any way to minimize bruising? And, if the shot isn’t inserted more than, say half way in, is it a big deal? When do you know if you should go to ER? Obviously if you can’t breathe or swell up and almost die, that would get your attention, but what about blurred vision? Any hints about the riba taken with fat? We haven’t even figured out what his dosage is, but meds will come this week in pre-filled syringes with pegasys. We have to pay almost $1000 a month to suffer. This seems like a bad idea, since one day they will absolutely control this beast with herbs and such – I just have a bad feeling that we are screwing up. However, I am trying to be upbeat and I’ll have to kick his butt the whole way. This is tough when I can barely function myself. Well, I have not been able to post with the new beta google, so I think I just wrote to myself. Signing off for now. Wendela ///////////// Bruising from the shot is minimal and shouldn’t become a concern.  Keep changing the injection site.  I don’t mean to minmize your concerns about what should get your hubby to the ER, but rarely is that necessary.  Before you do something like that, call your doc about side effects.  Most all of them have an after hours on call guy that will know more about the sides than ER doctors do and I’d encourage you to go that route.  Obviously, if he’s having chest pain, the ER is the way to go.  If he suffers blurred vision or other eye problems, call the GI doc right away.  It may or may not be significant.  Taking his meds with a small of fat in food is mandatory.  Without fat, the body will not absorb as much ribavirin, up to 40% will be wasted.  Your statement that herbs will one day be able to keep hepc at bay are wrong.  The drugs prescribed by your doc are the only things that have proven to eradicate the virus.  There are no other alternatives to the combo if he wants to obtain SVR.  Other effective forms of treatment are at least 5 years down the road and will probably include the drugs his specialist are prescribing now.  It’s easy for me to say "don’t be scared" about starting tx, because I’ve done it 3 times.  Sorry I can’t put you totally at ease, but if your hubby is as tough an hombre as you say, he’ll do fine.  It’s nice he has a loving, supportive partner as yourself.   Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

Hi, Larry is actually the dragon slayer, and I’m either horse or his princess, whichever I decide to be throughout this treatment which is starting this week.  I guess because I eat like one, I feel more like a horse than a princess. He is going to do first shot on the 17th. I’m more upset than Larry about this, as he is a runner, avid exerciser and is stong and "healthy" minus a bum liver. I, on the other hand, had the fatigue syndrome (CFS) and I’ve had permanent side effects from 2 medicines I’ve taken in my life, plus a host of other crazy disorders. I’m afraid for us in every way, becuase life isn’t exactly peachy now, and he’s the support person for me, so it’s going to force me to get my negative butt in gear and be cheerful. It may kill me to muster up cheerfulness when I wake up daily after having vivid dreams, and I feel like I crawled out from under a rock. When he does become more ill, I don’t know how we’ll differentiate "normal" brain fog from depression. And when do you start taking the AD’s? He is resisting the idea because I’ve had memory problems from taking Luvox, an SSRI. I’ll never be the same. Maybe I wrote this earlier? It’s more my mid-term memory. My first question regards the shot. Any way to minimize bruising? And, if the shot isn’t inserted more than, say half way in, is it a big deal?  When do you know if you should go to ER? Obviously if you can’t breathe or swell up and almost die, that would get your attention, but what about blurred vision? Any hints about the riba taken with fat? We haven’t even figured out what his dosage is, but meds will come this week in pre-filled syringes with pegasys. We have to pay almost $1000 a month to suffer. This seems like a bad idea, since one day they will absolutely control this beast with herbs and such – I just have a bad feeling that we are screwing up. However, I am trying to be upbeat and I’ll have to kick his butt the whole way. This is tough when I can barely function myself. Well, I have not been able to post with the new beta google, so I think I just wrote to myself.  Signing off for now.  Wendela

Response:

"Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:1102872817.525729.79930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Larry is actually the dragon slayer, and I’m either horse or his > princess, whichever I decide to be throughout this treatment which is > starting this week.  I guess because I eat like one, I feel more like a > horse than a princess. He is going to do first shot on the 17th. I’m > more upset than Larry about this, as he is a runner, avid exerciser and > is stong and "healthy" minus a bum liver. I, on the other hand, had the > fatigue syndrome (CFS) and I’ve had permanent side effects from 2 > medicines I’ve taken in my life, plus a host of other crazy disorders. > I’m afraid for us in every way, becuase life isn’t exactly peachy now, > and he’s the support person for me, so it’s going to force me to get my > negative butt in gear and be cheerful. It may kill me to muster up > cheerfulness when I wake up daily after having vivid dreams, and I feel > like I crawled out from under a rock. When he does become more ill, I > don’t know how we’ll differentiate "normal" brain fog from depression. > And when do you start taking the AD’s? He is resisting the idea because > I’ve had memory problems from taking Luvox, an SSRI. I’ll never be the > same. Maybe I wrote this earlier? It’s more my mid-term memory.

With anti-d’s most  say you don’t get the full effect for 6 weeks but I understand there are some that can give some help right away. I started on Wellbutrin 6 weeks before starting tx but then I had a good idea I would need them.  If he is prone to mood swings or feels things deeply than I would suggest starting on something now. This is something he needs to talk about with his doctor. > My first question regards the shot. Any way to minimize bruising? And, > if the shot isn’t inserted more than, say half way in, is it a big > deal?  When do you know if you should go to ER? Obviously if you can’t > breathe or swell up and almost die, that would get your attention, but > what about blurred vision?

To minimize bruising (and to convince me to stick myself), I numbed the area with ice before the shot.  Just make sure you (he) dries it and cleans it off with the swab before taking the shot.  I did them in my tummy because sadly that’s were I have the thickest layer of fat <G>.  It helps if you avoid hitting a muscle.  I don’t know about the ER, I was told only a very very small percentage of people suffer an immediate reaction to the drugs. If it were a real concern they would have everyone take at least the first one in a doctors office.  Usually problems come on gradually and are identified in the blood work.  That’s why they do labs so often in the first couple of months. > Any hints about the riba taken with fat? We haven’t even figured out > what his dosage is, but meds will come this week in pre-filled syringes > with pegasys. We have to pay almost $1000 a month to suffer. This seems > like a bad idea, since one day they will absolutely control this beast > with herbs and such – I just have a bad feeling that we are screwing > up. However, I am trying to be upbeat and I’ll have to kick his butt > the whole way. This is tough when I can barely function myself.

Well there have been quite a few of us who managed it alone so what he is mostly going to need from you is patience and understanding. The emotional toll is surprising and while many can sympathize, very few who haven’t experienced can understand.  It sounds like you know what it’s like to be tired all the time.  Add in 6 months of PMS, headaches, fever and feeling like you have been hit by a truck once a week than you have it <g>.  It’s also possible he will have very mild side effects and function just fine.  Some do.  I know it’s in our nature to worry but it doesn’t help and it may turn out that there is no reason to. BTW…one thing I did because I could only rely on me was to put a little rolling wire cart next to my bed.  I could fit a small trash can on the bottom shelf, I put a book and something to snack on (which I never did) on the second shelf and I put a big bottle of water and OTC meds to combat any sides on the top shelf.  I was preparing for not being able to get out of bed.  If your concerned with being able to help him IN CASE he gets sick the next day then this might be an option.  I didn’t need it of course.  The flu like symptoms weren’t totally debilitaing in my case so while the cart was good for my peace of mind…it wasn’t necessary. > Well, I have not been able to post with the new beta google, so I think > I just wrote to myself.  Signing off for now.  Wendela

You did good..made it to the group just fine.  Stick around, there are some good people here who can offer support and share their experiences.  Good luck. AG

Response:

Good luck to the both of you. Family is so important while going thru tx.! hc "Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:1102872817.525729.79930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Larry is actually the dragon slayer, and I’m either horse or his > princess, whichever I decide to be throughout this treatment which is > starting this week.  I guess because I eat like one, I feel more like a > horse than a princess. He is going to do first shot on the 17th. I’m > more upset than Larry about this, as he is a runner, avid exerciser and > is stong and "healthy" minus a bum liver. I, on the other hand, had the > fatigue syndrome (CFS) and I’ve had permanent side effects from 2 > medicines I’ve taken in my life, plus a host of other crazy disorders. > I’m afraid for us in every way, becuase life isn’t exactly peachy now, > and he’s the support person for me, so it’s going to force me to get my > negative butt in gear and be cheerful. It may kill me to muster up > cheerfulness when I wake up daily after having vivid dreams, and I feel > like I crawled out from under a rock. When he does become more ill, I > don’t know how we’ll differentiate "normal" brain fog from depression. > And when do you start taking the AD’s? He is resisting the idea because > I’ve had memory problems from taking Luvox, an SSRI. I’ll never be the > same. Maybe I wrote this earlier? It’s more my mid-term memory. > My first question regards the shot. Any way to minimize bruising? And, > if the shot isn’t inserted more than, say half way in, is it a big > deal?  When do you know if you should go to ER? Obviously if you can’t > breathe or swell up and almost die, that would get your attention, but > what about blurred vision? > Any hints about the riba taken with fat? We haven’t even figured out > what his dosage is, but meds will come this week in pre-filled syringes > with pegasys. We have to pay almost $1000 a month to suffer. This seems > like a bad idea, since one day they will absolutely control this beast > with herbs and such – I just have a bad feeling that we are screwing > up. However, I am trying to be upbeat and I’ll have to kick his butt > the whole way. This is tough when I can barely function myself. > Well, I have not been able to post with the new beta google, so I think > I just wrote to myself.  Signing off for now.  Wendela

Response:

In article <1102872817.525729.79…@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  "Wendela" <shoegi…@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi, > Larry is actually the dragon slayer, and I’m either horse or his > princess, whichever I decide to be throughout this treatment which is > starting this week.  I guess because I eat like one, I feel more like a > horse than a princess. He is going to do first shot on the 17th. I’m > more upset than Larry about this, as he is a runner, avid exerciser and > is stong and "healthy" minus a bum liver. I, on the other hand, had the > fatigue syndrome (CFS) and I’ve had permanent side effects from 2 > medicines I’ve taken in my life, plus a host of other crazy disorders.

Think of his being strong and healthy as a really good base from which to start the treatment.   I don’t know if it would be appropriate for anyone else but I was using a testosterone gel and I believe that may have helped me avoid muscle loss.  I’m finding now after 24 weeks of treatment that I’m a lot stronger than I thought I’d be. > I’m afraid for us in every way, becuase life isn’t exactly peachy now, > and he’s the support person for me, so it’s going to force me to get my > negative butt in gear and be cheerful. It may kill me to muster up > cheerfulness when I wake up daily after having vivid dreams, and I feel > like I crawled out from under a rock. When he does become more ill, I > don’t know how we’ll differentiate "normal" brain fog from depression.

I didn’t need my partner to be cheerful when I was in tx.  I just needed him to not need much from me, and not to ascribe whatever I was doing or how I was acting to a problem between us that needed work or discussion.   I think something that might be helpful is to establish a "time out" phrase that either of you can use.  For him being able to say "I can’t deal right now" or you to say "I need to not be around your deep well of sick feeling right now" so that you don’t have to discuss it when you need it could be good.  Step back, step away, have some space.  We did this a lot and it helped. Also remember that not everyone gets bad sides from this.  You hear a lot about them here because people need to talk about them when they occur, but sometimes people speak up to say that it’s not really that bad for them. > And when do you start taking the AD’s? He is resisting the idea because > I’ve had memory problems from taking Luvox, an SSRI.

I wish I had started day one.  What I realized is that the tx didn’t make me depressed but it gave me the chemical symptoms of depression – so it took me a while to figure out that an antidepressant could help. I took Symbyax, a combo of prozac and another drug that helps sleep.  It worked fast and made a big difference for me. [...] > My first question regards the shot. Any way to minimize bruising? And, > if the shot isn’t inserted more than, say half way in, is it a big > deal?  When do you know if you should go to ER? Obviously if you can’t > breathe or swell up and almost die, that would get your attention, but > what about blurred vision?

First, calm down a bit.  I don’t think that allergic reactions to the shot are very common at all.  My doctor had me do my first shot in his office so he could show me how to do it and he didn’t make me wait to see if there were any reactions.  He’s a very good doctor and it would surprise me if there were much risk at all. The prefilled needles are tiny.  I HATE NEEDLES and I got used to them right away.  You’ll see, but inserting it all the way in was no big deal for me.  I did them in the top of my thighs, grabbing a roll of skin and shooting into it.  I’d get a raised area where the fluid was for a while and never any redness or bruising.  I did one in my stomach and that stayed red for a few days so I didn’t do it again.   > Any hints about the riba taken with fat? We haven’t even figured out > what his dosage is, but meds will come this week in pre-filled syringes > with pegasys.

I already take meds twice a day that need to be taken with fat and for those, a glass of whole milk is sufficient.  My doctor told me that it was the same for the riba.  I kept ice cream in the freezer and would have a few spoonfuls of that sometimes.   > We have to pay almost $1000 a month to suffer. This seems > like a bad idea, since one day they will absolutely control this beast > with herbs and such – I just have a bad feeling that we are screwing > up.

I think there will be better, more precise treatments but it’s very unlikely that it’s going to be something you can rid of with herbs.   After 20 years with HIV, my bets are on complicated western chemicals in the future. > However, I am trying to be upbeat and I’ll have to kick his butt > the whole way. This is tough when I can barely function myself.

You might be doing more putting up with him feeling bad than having to kick his butt.   It won’t be fun but it’s doable and for most people manageable.  I think you’re buying a little trouble before the fact, don’t worry so much.   You’ll figure out what to do when the time comes.

Response:

Question:

>If it’s in the agreement and he doesn’t pay you the $7K by the end of next >september, file against him in small claims court, put a lien on the house, >etc…

You know, Deb, this might be the way to go.   Do what you want about the money.  You have a year to figure out what to do here, to decide if this is the time to stand up to your bully or time to rise above petty battles over lucre.   I think you should check in with a lawyer, too, though.  I’m not seeing the huge ugly fight here that you are.  Even outside Small Claims Court – and remember, I am the Queen of "keep it out of court" – these failure to pay issues seem to me to be pretty much in-and-out affairs.  FWIW it seems to me that on the occasions I have been in court, I saw a hundreds of cases just like this go by in a couple of minutes each: "It says here that you will pay her $7K in 7 years.  It’s been 7 years.  Did you pay her the $7K?  Why not?"     But that’s my perception, after all.  You should check with a lawyer.  If you want, I can hook you up.   jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: You_know_jstlucas@stuff_hotmail.com  (Joe St. Lucas)

Response:

"Nikki Murphy" <n…@impactwp.com> wrote in message

news:s_SdnfkMJIO8zOvcRVnyuQ@eclipse.net.uk… >  I suppose I shouldn’t say ‘never mind, she’ll be moving out soon’?

Not much, no.  I just want the mature girl I had last year back.  She’s split up with her boyfriend of two years, which seems to have really unsettled her and the rest of us in the process. Meanwhile she was the victim of an assault the week before last.  She and some friends went to Cheltenham to see a boy she’s started seeing a bit of. They asked someone for directions back to the place they parked and he said all sorts of inappropriate things to them, so they walked away.  He shouted after them, and one of the girls shouted back at him.  At which point, he chased the bloke they were with down the street, turned came back at the girls and knocked two of them down.  Lou went to help them up and he attacked her, throwing her to the ground.  She hit her head on the curb, badly grazed her knee, elbow , cut her hand and was covered in bruises.  The police caught him, but then let him go with just a fine and a letter of apology to her. > Ah well, allow me to help you with that.

Right you are, then. > I could do you and I meeting locally pretty soon but Oxford might be a bit > much to manage at the moment. I’m usually free on a Sunday.

Locally, is fine.  A Sunday lunch would be fun. Email me some dates If you want some fun, Barclay is placing at The Synergy Project in London on 19 November.  See www.projectozma.com for details.  www.synergyproject.org is their website, but they don’t have the November flyer up yet, surprisingly.  They’re doing the main dance room with 14 VJs and 5 DJs, and there will be a chill out room.  There will be the "Forced Out" room with all sorts of positive action information.  There will be a room for talented but yet unknown artists to show their work.   Plus there will be a healing room area with swedish and holistic massage, thai massage, relexology, shiatsu, Reiki, energy healing and Polynesian Maori massage. It’s the end of an era as it’s probably the last Project Ozma gig for some time, as one of the main organisers is off to India. Wendy T

Response:

In article <20041020095238.22107.00005…@mb-m07.aol.com>, jane <janelaw2…@aol.com> wrote: >I think you should check in with a lawyer, too, though.  I’m not seeing the >huge ugly fight here that you are.  Even outside Small Claims Court – and >remember, I am the Queen of "keep it out of court" – these failure to pay >issues seem to me to be pretty much in-and-out affairs.  FWIW it seems to me >that on the occasions I have been in court, I saw a hundreds of cases just like >this go by in a couple of minutes each: "It says here that you will pay her $7K >in 7 years.  It’s been 7 years.  Did you pay her the $7K?  Why not?"    

No–the big ugly fight I’m getting the sinking feeling about isn’t a court battle, but rather an ugly personal fight that brings up all the old bad feelings that I’ve managed to live without for the past 5 or 6 years.  I’m sure if I took it to court, it would go just as you said. I just don’t have the guts for a seige of personal attacks and nastiness.  I get absolutely no satisfaction at all out of fending them off, and even less satisfaction from retaliation (even if it’s deserved).  I can’t stand the feeling of biting my tongue in half to keep from telling my son that his father is a prick–even though he’s smart enough to have figured that out all on his own, years ago, and I’m still trying to come to grips with it. Deb R. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->jane

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl69hh$piq$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU… >I’m sure if I took it to court, it would go just as you said. > I just don’t have the guts for a seige of personal attacks and > nastiness.

Sure you do. You divorced him, and that is the ultimate "I could give a rat’s ass what you think of me anymore" statement. >  I get absolutely no satisfaction at all out of fending > them off, and even less satisfaction from retaliation (even if it’s > deserved).

What retaliation? He spews, you can just walk away. Kind of hard to argue when it’s just one person. > I can’t stand the feeling of biting my tongue in half to > keep from telling my son that his father is a prick–even though he’s > smart enough to have figured that out all on his own, years ago, and > I’m still trying to come to grips with it.

Then there’s no reason to tell your son something he already knows, and eliminates the need for you to bite your tongue in half. Jess

Response:

>I just don’t have the guts for a seige of personal attacks and >nastiness.  I get absolutely no satisfaction at all out of fending >them off, and even less satisfaction from retaliation (even if it’s >deserved).

I’m not backing off the lawyer, but are you seeing a shrink?  This is clearly shrink territory.   Or call Anne.   jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Deb R.

Response:

"Wendy T" <we…@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:cl3qa9$me2$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk… > "Nikki Murphy" <n…@impactwp.com> wrote in message > news:MNudnQNL3NKu0ujcRVnyhw@eclipse.net.uk… >> Yes, Kiera’s sulking (definitely a Davies trait!!) can wind me up too, >> and >> she’s only 4! > Somehow when they’re 4 you can take it, but when they’re 18 and acting 4 > it’s just too much.

Hey, my ex is 34 and behaves like he’s 4, so I know where you’re coming from I suppose I shouldn’t say ‘never mind, she’ll be moving out soon’? >> I did take a break. And I’m kind of back. Just been focusing on, well, >> having a good time and not doing a lot other than going out, having fun, >> then resting it off. Know it’s all going to kick off here soon with new >> houses etc, so making the most of my hiatus. > Fun is good.  I sometimes feel like I’m not getting my fair share of it.

Ah well, allow me to help you with that. >> Must get together though, soon! One weekend lunchtime? > Sure.  I said I’d try to organise a get together in Oxford, but then > people’s responses and diaries didn’t seem all that easy to mesh over the > summer. > Email me with some dates and I’ll see what Barclay’s diary looks like, > though that doesn’t necessarily stop me from going out on my own.

I could do you and I meeting locally pretty soon but Oxford might be a bit much to manage at the moment. I’m usually free on a Sunday. Nikki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I haven’t seen any posts from Emma in a while.  Emma, are you still out > there? > Wendy T

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl41mp$2kuf$2@bigboote.WPI.EDU… > I never thought about taxes with this thing.  Good point.  It isn’t > spousal support, but it *is* my share of equity from the house.  Of > course if I never see it anyway, it’s all academic.

Oh, see, that even would take away any guilt from me about asking for it. It’s not support, it’s *your* share of the equity from the house.  And I assume you haven’t been charging him any interest for his ability to use and profit from your money all these years. But anyway, only you are really going to be able to weigh the pros and cons. good luck rebecca

Response:

In article <41756E02.5030…@aol.com>, Tracey  <rbranch…@aol.com> wrote: >But then you run into the trap of ‘Geez, do you think I’m an IDIOT?!?!?! >I signed the stoopid papers, I know what my responsibilities are. I >don’t need you to remind me!’ >Even if I hadn’t remembered it, I would imagine I would still react >that way. >Tracey

I can see that happening, but not in my case.  He was enraged that I was even considering asking for it, even if it was in the agreement. He feels like he was "royally screwed over by the divorce" and that he can see right through my "pathetic money grab."  He feels no responsibility whatsoever to honor the agreement because he feels that he’s been terribly unjustly treated by the system and me. Deb R.

Response:

In article <4Medd.1592$%h1….@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, rebecca <justrebec…@yahoo.com> wrote: >I like the idea of continuing support payments (although child support is >non-tax, versus I assume the $7 K is spousal and taxable).  That’s >responsive to desire to maintain cash flow, your need for the money, and in >keeping with the spirit of the deal the two of you originally struck. >Smart cookie.  Want to come manage my life for awhile? >rebecca

Actually, maybe managing yours would make me forget about being so stressed out over mine… I never thought about taxes with this thing.  Good point.  It isn’t spousal support, but it *is* my share of equity from the house.  Of course if I never see it anyway, it’s all academic. Deb R.

Response:

"Tracey" <rbranch…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:41756E02.5030807@aol.com… > But then you run into the trap of ‘Geez, do you think I’m an IDIOT?!?!?! > I signed the stoopid papers, I know what my responsibilities are. I > don’t need you to remind me!’ > Even if I hadn’t remembered it, I would imagine I would still react > that way.

A lot depends on your relationship, I guess.  I’d find a contact from a solicitor far more adversarial. Wendy T

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wendy T wrote: > "Joe St. Lucas" <You_know_jstlucas@stuff_hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:XV1dd.29641$bk1.8181@fed1read05… >>If it’s in the agreement and he doesn’t pay you the $7K by the end of next >>september, file against him in small claims court, put a lien on the > house, >>etc…But, yeah, he’s probably pissed cuz you reminded him a year ahead of >>time. > I don’t know about you, but it would take me time to raise 7K and I’d want > as much time as I could get to organise it. > Wendy T

But then you run into the trap of ‘Geez, do you think I’m an IDIOT?!?!?! I signed the stoopid papers, I know what my responsibilities are. I don’t need you to remind me!’ Even if I hadn’t remembered it, I would imagine I would still react that way. Tracey

Response:

Tracey wrote in news:41756E02.5030807@aol.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wendy T wrote: >> "Joe St. Lucas" <You_know_jstlucas@stuff_hotmail.com> wrote in >> message news:XV1dd.29641$bk1.8181@fed1read05… >>>If it’s in the agreement and he doesn’t pay you the $7K by the end of >>>next september, file against him in small claims court, put a lien on >>>the >> house, >>>etc…But, yeah, he’s probably pissed cuz you reminded him a year >>>ahead of time. >> I don’t know about you, but it would take me time to raise 7K and I’d >> want as much time as I could get to organise it. >> Wendy T > But then you run into the trap of ‘Geez, do you think I’m an > IDIOT?!?!?! I signed the stoopid papers, I know what my > responsibilities are. I don’t need you to remind me!’ > Even if I hadn’t remembered it, I would imagine I would still react > that way. > Tracey

For one thing, this was something he has had six years to plan for already, and she has reminded him a year in advance. He already *has* had time to prepare for this, and still has a year to figure out how to pay what he owes Deb.  From what Deb said, it sounds like he was expecting her to just forget all about it, and he’s peeved that that isn’t the case. — Cal~ Change me to myself for email  :-)

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl3but$29c0$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU… > He knows I’ll never take this to court.  My mental health is worth > more than $7K.  I may suggest that he continue making the same support > payments he has been making after our son turns 18 in December. > If he did that for another 14 months, he’d have it covered.

Well, Deb, you didn’t ask for advice, which is why I didn’t initially post. But everyone else’s jumping all in, so here goes.  I think you have to decide what’s, in the end, going to make you feel most at peace with yourself.  Clearly, he owes you the money.  Letting him off the hook to avoid the fight might seem worth it to you now, but ostensibly your divorce settlement was reasonable, and it’s unfair of him now to expect to rework that deal.  So you have to balance the resentment that you’ll have for his tactics succeeding against the avoidance of unpleasantness between you. I like the idea of continuing support payments (although child support is non-tax, versus I assume the $7 K is spousal and taxable).  That’s responsive to desire to maintain cash flow, your need for the money, and in keeping with the spirit of the deal the two of you originally struck. Smart cookie.  Want to come manage my life for awhile? rebecca

Response:

"Wendy T" <we…@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:cl3ioo$g13$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Nikki Murphy" <n…@impactwp.com> wrote in message > news:raGdnYWKF4AcoejcRVnyvw@eclipse.net.uk… >> My ex sometimes makes me so mad I could quite literally hit him with a > blunt > object. I tend to try and think ‘oh no way pal’ because I really > feel like >> if I allow him to do that to me, I’m giving my power over to him and just >> letting him hit me over the head with it, you know? It’s hard. I > sympathise. > Hey, you’re back. > Wendy > PS  The only person who can turn me inside out like my ex is my eldest > daughter.

Yes, Kiera’s sulking (definitely a Davies trait!!) can wind me up too, and she’s only 4! I did take a break. And I’m kind of back. Just been focusing on, well, having a good time and not doing a lot other than going out, having fun, then resting it off. Know it’s all going to kick off here soon with new houses etc, so making the most of my hiatus. Must get together though, soon! One weekend lunchtime? Nikki

Response:

"Nikki Murphy" <n…@impactwp.com> wrote in message

news:MNudnQNL3NKu0ujcRVnyhw@eclipse.net.uk… > Yes, Kiera’s sulking (definitely a Davies trait!!) can wind me up too, and > she’s only 4!

Somehow when they’re 4 you can take it, but when they’re 18 and acting 4 it’s just too much. > I did take a break. And I’m kind of back. Just been focusing on, well, > having a good time and not doing a lot other than going out, having fun, > then resting it off. Know it’s all going to kick off here soon with new > houses etc, so making the most of my hiatus.

Fun is good.  I sometimes feel like I’m not getting my fair share of it. > Must get together though, soon! One weekend lunchtime?

Sure.  I said I’d try to organise a get together in Oxford, but then people’s responses and diaries didn’t seem all that easy to mesh over the summer. Email me with some dates and I’ll see what Barclay’s diary looks like, though that doesn’t necessarily stop me from going out on my own. I haven’t seen any posts from Emma in a while.  Emma, are you still out there? Wendy T

Response:

"Joe St. Lucas" <You_know_jstlucas@stuff_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:XV1dd.29641$bk1.8181@fed1read05… > If it’s in the agreement and he doesn’t pay you the $7K by the end of next > september, file against him in small claims court, put a lien on the house, > etc…But, yeah, he’s probably pissed cuz you reminded him a year ahead of > time.

I don’t know about you, but it would take me time to raise 7K and I’d want as much time as I could get to organise it. Wendy T

Response:

"Nikki Murphy" <n…@impactwp.com> wrote in message

news:raGdnYWKF4AcoejcRVnyvw@eclipse.net.uk… > My ex sometimes makes me so mad I could quite literally hit him with a

blunt > object. I tend to try and think ‘oh no way pal’ because I really feel like > if I allow him to do that to me, I’m giving my power over to him and just > letting him hit me over the head with it, you know? It’s hard. I

sympathise. Hey, you’re back. Wendy PS  The only person who can turn me inside out like my ex is my eldest daughter.

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl1ek6$19nt$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU… > I *know* he’s not rolling in money, and that he works hard.  That’s > not the issue.  I’ve bent over backwards to be fair to him, and all I > got was the same old abuse I got when I was married to him.  I’ve been > working up my courage for months on how to approach him with this, and > now I don’t know what to do.  I don’t have the stomach for an ugly > fight over money, which is why I took so much less to begin with.

I hate fighting over money.  That’s why I tried to get all the financial things sorted out when we first separated.  Every time finances come up, it’s a recipe for acrimony. When Barclay moved in, my ex implied that now that I didn’t have a mortgage to pay, because Barclay bought a share of the house and I paid the mortgage off with it, this should reduce the child support he pays. I couldn’t believe it, but then again he never was that organised about finances. Even with monthly statements about what the child support gets spent on, he still seems to think that there’s money left over one month to the next.  As if. The best thing is not to talk to them when you are upset about it.  Wait til you are calmer and then try and write down as much information as you can so he understands your reasoning.  Ask him for his views and reasoning in writing. Then try and find something which considers all viewpoints as best you can, is all I can suggest. Don’t let it get to you. Wendy T

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl3but$29c0$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <JMCdnQmgl6YlVOncRVn…@eclipse.net.uk>, > Nikki Murphy <n…@impactwp.com> wrote: >>Take a deep breath and step outside of it. Don’t let him make you feel how >>he used to make you feel. It’s just delaying tactics and trying to avoid >>the >>issue on his part. You’re entitled to that money and there’s nothing wrong >>with you asking for it, now or later. You’re bigger than all of that old >>crap with your ex and you do have the power to just let it go and think >>’fuck him’. >>Nikki > This is it in a nutshell.  It’s like post traumatic stress syndrome > setting in anytime I have to do business with him.  Everything I used > to feel that was so bad came flooding back, and I knew it would > happen.  When we were married, whenever I asked for something that > would fulfill me personally, he treated it like some huge personality > flaw of mine.  Everything from wanting to go to night school, to > requesting we scale back a project that was taking way too much of our > budget and time, to dealing with the problems his (then) drinking was > causing, trying to budget our money, asking his alcoholic brother to > move out of our house, child rearing decisions, *everything* –even > asking for a backrub or a walk in the woods with him, was a > personality flaw of mine.  All his bad choices were the fault of > everyone around him.  I used to tie myself up in knots trying to > please, and I never succeeded unless I did exactly what he wanted me > to do.  Even then, he wasn’t pleased for long.  I admit it.  His moods > controlled and intimidated me.  I guess they still intimidate me even > after we’ve been apart since 1996.

Ha! Are you sure you’re not talking about MY ex?! He actually said to me recently during a discussion about what had happened in our marriage ‘oh I don’t know why Nikki, but if you ever told me you wanted or needed me to provide you with something, I just couldn’t do it, I had to rebel’. And it’s funny, because I’m like one of the most unlikely people-pleasers that there are. I can be a right bossy bitch and most who know me can’t understand how I’ve dumbed myself down and tried to please my ex because it just doesn’t seem like me. Is it like that for you? > He knows I’ll never take this to court.  My mental health is worth > more than $7K.  I may suggest that he continue making the same support > payments he has been making after our son turns 18 in December. > If he did that for another 14 months, he’d have it covered.

Well that’s a really good compromise. Maybe email him, save yourself the ag of going through the same old bullshit? > Money fights make me feel so dirty.  I hate that.  I also hate that I > still give him enough power over my emotions that I can’t deal with > it effectively.

A pal of mine, divorced 4 years, rang me a couple of weeks ago in total pieces after a conversation with her ex over money. I think it’s really common to get sucked into the old patterns that way. A guy I’m seeing was talking about his ex last night and their fight over money and he was furious too, right back in there where he used to be when they were together. I think it’s the combination of old emotions and money – money being one of the most difficult things for people to deal with generally. My ex sometimes makes me so mad I could quite literally hit him with a blunt object. I tend to try and think ‘oh no way pal’ because I really feel like if I allow him to do that to me, I’m giving my power over to him and just letting him hit me over the head with it, you know? It’s hard. I sympathise. But you’ve been cool enough to think through another solution, so kudos for you and boo sucks to him. Nikki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Deb R.

Response:

Deb, I hate those arguments.  :-(  Damn. Sheila

Response:

In article <JMCdnQmgl6YlVOncRVn…@eclipse.net.uk>, Nikki Murphy <n…@impactwp.com> wrote: >Take a deep breath and step outside of it. Don’t let him make you feel how >he used to make you feel. It’s just delaying tactics and trying to avoid the >issue on his part. You’re entitled to that money and there’s nothing wrong >with you asking for it, now or later. You’re bigger than all of that old >crap with your ex and you do have the power to just let it go and think >’fuck him’. >Nikki

This is it in a nutshell.  It’s like post traumatic stress syndrome setting in anytime I have to do business with him.  Everything I used to feel that was so bad came flooding back, and I knew it would happen.  When we were married, whenever I asked for something that would fulfill me personally, he treated it like some huge personality flaw of mine.  Everything from wanting to go to night school, to requesting we scale back a project that was taking way too much of our budget and time, to dealing with the problems his (then) drinking was causing, trying to budget our money, asking his alcoholic brother to move out of our house, child rearing decisions, *everything* –even asking for a backrub or a walk in the woods with him, was a personality flaw of mine.  All his bad choices were the fault of everyone around him.  I used to tie myself up in knots trying to please, and I never succeeded unless I did exactly what he wanted me to do.  Even then, he wasn’t pleased for long.  I admit it.  His moods controlled and intimidated me.  I guess they still intimidate me even after we’ve been apart since 1996.   He knows I’ll never take this to court.  My mental health is worth more than $7K.  I may suggest that he continue making the same support payments he has been making after our son turns 18 in December. If he did that for another 14 months, he’d have it covered. Money fights make me feel so dirty.  I hate that.  I also hate that I still give him enough power over my emotions that I can’t deal with it effectively. Deb R. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

>OK, I was supposed to get the $7K after the 7th year after our >divorce.  That makes it next September.  I thought it was time to >remind him, so I did–a year in advance.  He’s totally *outraged* at >my "pathetic money grabbing attempt"

If it’s in the agreement and he doesn’t pay you the $7K by the end of next september, file against him in small claims court, put a lien on the house, etc…But, yeah, he’s probably pissed cuz you reminded him a year ahead of time.

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl1ek6$19nt$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU… >I just got off the phone with my ex.  I’m HUGELY pissed off and need > to vent.

snip> Deb R. From what I’m experiencing in the course of my own separation/divorce right now, and what I’ve seen from other friends, this is just how it goes. You’re getting on with your life, and you feel good about things. You feel like you’re recovering/have recovered or processed the problems in the old relationship. You need to approach the ex about something and before you know it, you’re both right back there mired in all of the same old communication issues. It’s hugely frustrating. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on I don’t think. It’s in the agreement, he has to cough up. I wouldn’t even tolerate discussion about it frankly. What the heck does any of that stuff that he brought up have to do with the price of fish? Nothing. It’s in black and white. Take a deep breath and step outside of it. Don’t let him make you feel how he used to make you feel. It’s just delaying tactics and trying to avoid the issue on his part. You’re entitled to that money and there’s nothing wrong with you asking for it, now or later. You’re bigger than all of that old crap with your ex and you do have the power to just let it go and think ‘fuck him’. Nikki

Response:

"Deborah M Riel" <dr…@wpi.edu> wrote in message news:cl1ek6$19nt$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU… >I just got off the phone with my ex.  I’m HUGELY pissed off and need > to vent.

{{{{Deb}}}} Perhaps he was hoping you would forget it and was shocked to realise you haven’t. My ex was supposed to increase the child support annually in line with inflation. Of course he didn’t and when I finally got the guts up to ask him for it (years later) he was pretty pissed off.  Every year since then he has increased the support without needing any prompting. I think the worst part of it for men like this is being reminded. I guess it makes them feel small or something? Hopefully your ex will get over it soon. Amy

Response:

I just got off the phone with my ex.  I’m HUGELY pissed off and need to vent. Background:  When our divorce was final in 9/98, part of the written agreement was that I’d receive a $7K settlement as my portion of the house that I signed over to him.  The house, at the time, needed a lot of work because of an addition that he wanted to put on, and never finished.  He’s the carpenter, I’m not, so I let him have the house because I couldn’t afford to hire someone to do the work, and I couldn’t do it myself.  He finished the work, and has been renting it out since then.  During the course of the 7 or 8 years he was putting the addition on to the house (while we were still married) I put $10K in cash into it that my parents had given me, plus all the money I put in from my pay just because we were married and in this together.  The house now (presumedly) is worth more than in ‘98, but he’s refinanced and now tells me that his tenant had a fire that was underinsured and he’s trying to fix.  That was the first I heard of that problem. OK, I was supposed to get the $7K after the 7th year after our divorce.  That makes it next September.  I thought it was time to remind him, so I did–a year in advance.  He’s totally *outraged* at my "pathetic money grabbing attempt", and is accusing me of all kinds of unfair treatment towards him.  He said he doesn’t have it, and won’t give it to me.  After all, he says, come January he won’t be working so much because he’ll be raising a new kid.  Just an aside, here, when we had our son, I did all the child care plus worked full time because he was too busy to do child care.  Pisses me off. He went on to say how much he’s put into raising our son, how he buys him clothes and shoes, pays tuition and never missed a support payment.  Well, I’ve bought clothes and shoes too, and all his tuition has come out of the support payments.  There was *never* any extra after tuition for anything else.  I handled all that, and never asked him to split it.  I took about $75/week less than the state formula for child support called for, and $50/week less that the reduced amount we legally agreed on in the divorce. All he could say was that he was screwed over royally in the divorce and not a judge in the country would make him pay that money after 7 years.  And that he’s finally getting along better with our son, and he’s not going to let me screw it up with my money grab.  His relationship with our son is his own fault.  He didn’t have to verbally torment him for years, then hit him several times recently.  That has nothing to do with our divorce settlement on the house. This is a man who goes to the Philippines twice a year, owns 2 houses, 2 cars and obviously feels he can support another child.  He said that I must have a shitload of money in the bank because he’s been paying so much for our son all these years.   I *know* he’s not rolling in money, and that he works hard.  That’s not the issue.  I’ve bent over backwards to be fair to him, and all I got was the same old abuse I got when I was married to him.  I’ve been working up my courage for months on how to approach him with this, and now I don’t know what to do.  I don’t have the stomach for an ugly fight over money, which is why I took so much less to begin with. OK, that’s all I have now.  I have to process all this.  I’m really, really, really upset right now. Deb R.

Response:

Question:

Ok… I’m a guy (39)… but I need some info. My girlfrined (46) I suspect is experiencing some stage of menopause etc. She doesnt really think so I need some info, and suggestions how to deal with this. Her symptoms: 1) Night sweats sometimes 2) Feels like she is crawling out of her skin, and her mind is racing/jumpy 3) House temp is either set at 70′F or 90′F 4) She took the pill for a while and that appeared to level out the above 5) Very moody… crying, and suicidal… to angry and never agrees with anyone..(she blows up at everything/everyone) 6) Back/Hip/Bone pain.. (is this a symptom?) The problems complicating things 1) She had a BAD divorce, where the hubby has/still plays games with the kids (21-23) 2) Hubby is a classic "Parental Alienation syndrome" case 3) Daughter is finally coming around after  3 yrs… son wants nothing to do with mom 4) Standard work B.S. 5) She smokes.. so they pulled her off of the pill. 6) High rate of breast cancer in family, and she has alread numerous non-cancerous cysts. (there was some common name, I forget) 7) EVERY person in her family had a hist early on in life, and non have really had menopause symptoms.. so none can offer support. Sooo….the way I see it, her life is troublesome, and difficult in the best of times, and now I believe her hormones are acting up. She often gets SOOOO depressed, I wonder if its hormones, or classic depression. How depressed have people got strictly due to menopause? She often talks of suicide.! I am wondering if there is some HRT for this. If so what drug. How safe is it? Can she smoke on the HRT? What affect will it have on Breast Cancer? How long will this menopause typically last? Ugghhh… I guess all I can say is HELP! How do I deal with her moods, etc? Do I just leave  her alone.. Do I rub her feet? Do I feed her chocolates? What the heck do I do.. I ALWAYS loose! I am never right.. can never do the right thing? Is this just part of menopause? I mean.. she says she feels wound up inside.. so does that mean I cant do anything right? Any support/advice for a poor guy thats really trying, and has no clue what to do would be app. Thanks Much Andrew adudinskyS…@cogeco.ca (please remove the word SPAM from email before replying

Response:

Welcome, Andrew. Here is my opinion, and it’s *just* my opinion: Don’t believe the hype.  Women do not automatically go crazy at menopause. Women do not automatically need to be "put on something" to "regulate their hormones." HT (it’s not called HRT any more) can be useful for short-term relief of symptoms felt to be disabling, but is now known to be too risky for any kind of long-term use.  If your girlfriend is already at risk because of tobacco use, this doesn’t seem like the direction to go in. One thing you might not realize is that it often takes women much longer to get over a bad marriage or bad relationship than it takes men.  After my breakup with husband #2, he was re-married within a year and a half (and no, he did *not* get involved with her while we were together), and I hadn’t even started dating yet.  I was still licking my wounds, so to speak.  I admit there are some problems in my current relationship that go back to my marriages.  This may be happening in your relationship too. Also, my current boyfriend, who doesn’t have children, once told me how hard it was for him to come to realize that when you get involved with a woman who has children, those children’s needs and problems are always going to come first.  Is this like what’s going on with you? It’s great that you are looking for a way to help your girlfriend and your relationship, but remember it’s not up to you to fix everything for her!  In other words, please encourage her to post here herself, and if she talks about her specific problems, believe me, she’ll get lots of good responses. Eva

Response:

"A.Dudinsky" <adudinskyS…@cogeco.ca> wrote in message

news:qYMLc.45471$XY6.3682023@read2.cgocable.net… > Ok… I’m a guy (39)… but I need some info. My girlfrined (46) I suspect > is experiencing some stage of menopause etc. She doesnt really think so I > need some info, and suggestions how to deal with this.

I can address some of your questions, not all – but others will probably be able to answer those. > Her symptoms: > 1) Night sweats sometimes > 2) Feels like she is crawling out of her skin, and her mind is

racing/jumpy These two sound like menopausal things to me. > 3) House temp is either set at 70′F or 90′F

I never want it warm in the house anymore – my thermostat’s set for 66 – 67

Question:

Gasoline Costs 5 Cents a Gallon in Iraq Thanks to US Taxpayers… /Associated Press/ http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0606-04.htm More Questions for the Bush Regime: An estimated 15,000 Iraqi women and children have been killed by the US military in the past 2 years. Why is it official US policy NOT to count civilian casualties in Iraq? Would it be too embarrassing?

answers from an unidentified official: Exactly. Anything that would cause the great white chiefs in washington "extreme embarrassment" that can be hidden from the public, is classified as top secret and kept under wraps. Maybe make it harder to call the soldier boys "heros" and thus to recruit young boys to kill for you?

Yes that’s true. The soldier boys like to think that this is a "war on terror" ,  so we continue to tell them (and the world) that so that we’ll get their support.  We pat the stupid boys on their backs – give them some medals, call them heros, and tell them that did a great job for their country. They usually walk (or hobble) away smiling. It’s a win – win situation. Is it because you think that the Iraqi civilians don’t matter?

They are worthless. Those 15,000 women and children wouldn’t have been killed if they had stayed the hell out of our way. Their oil is whats important. Is it because the American people would be horrified and much less supportive of wicked invasions like this one?

It would not be in America’s best interests for the people to have a rounded view of what’s going on. It’s always been that way though. Would the truth of civilian casualties be bad for the business (of war profiteering)?

Most certainly. We’d have to find other ways to screw the American people out of hundreds of billions of dollars! Besides, nobody (who matters) cares about high gas prices. Only the little people fuss about it – they’re a bunch of nobodies. If they had any brains they’d be among the elite – those with millions or billions stashed away – who make up Bush’s base. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.veteransforpeace.org The Marine’s tale: ‘We killed 30 civilians in six weeks. I felt we were committing genocide’ By Natasha Saulnier "In a month and a half my platoon and I killed more than 30 civilians,"…  He saw bodies being desecrated and robbed, and wounded civilians being dumped by the roadside without medical treatment. After he told his commanding officer that he felt "we were committing genocide", he was called a "wimp"…. Iraqis, he said, "would see us debase their dead all the time. We would be messing around with charred bodies, kicking them out of the vehicles and sticking cigarettes in their mouths. I also saw vehicles drive over them. It was our job to look into the pockets of dead Iraqis to gather intelligence. However, time and time again, I saw Marines steal gold chains, watches and wallets full of money." http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 Only the truth will set us free from war and tyrants. More guns, bombs, murders, executions, and lies will only make it all worse. http://www.fahrenheit911.com "Man must change or die. There is no other course." The World Teacher http://www.share-international.org

Response:

A question for President Bush… Please tell us: If we plan to return Iraq to the Iraqis, why is the U.S. currently building fourteen permanent bases there?

Hold on, I’ll ask him…

Response:

In Iraq Gas = 5 Cents/Gallon Thanks to US Taxpayers.. Gasoline Costs 5 Cents a Gallon in Iraq Thanks to US Taxpayers… /Associated Press/ http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0606-04.htm More Questions for the Bush Regime: An estimated 15,000 Iraqi women and children have been killed by the US military in the past 2 years. Why is it official US policy NOT to count civilian casualties in Iraq? Would it be too embarrassing? Maybe make it harder to call the soldier boys "heros" and thus to recruit young boys to kill for you? Is it because you think that the Iraqi civilians don’t matter? Is it because the American people would be horrified and much less supportive of wicked invasions like this one if they had more facts? Would large numbers of civilian casualties be bad for the business (of war profiteering)? www.veteransforpeace.org The Marine’s tale: ‘We killed 30 civilians in six weeks. I felt we were committing genocide’ By Natasha Saulnier "In a month and a half my platoon and I killed more than 30 civilians,"…  He saw bodies being desecrated and robbed, and wounded civilians being dumped by the roadside without medical treatment. After he told his commanding officer that he felt "we were committing genocide", he was called a "wimp"…. Iraqis, he said, "would see us debase their dead all the time. We would be messing around with charred bodies, kicking them out of the vehicles and sticking cigarettes in their mouths. I also saw vehicles drive over them. It was our job to look into the pockets of dead Iraqis to gather intelligence. However, time and time again, I saw Marines steal gold chains, watches and wallets full of money." http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 Only the truth will set us free from war and tyrants. More guns, bombs, murders, executions, and lies will only make it all worse. http://www.fahrenheit911.com "Man must change or die. There is no other course." The World Teacher http://www.share-international.org

Response:

A question for President Bush… Please tell us: If we plan to return Iraq to the Iraqis, why is the U.S. currently building fourteen permanent bases there? 12 important questions the Bush Administration isn’t answering   Chalmers Johnson, TomDispatch http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid=1468 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.commondreams.org www.democracynow.org "Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be no peace; without peace there can be no future." Maitreya, The World Teacher   http://www.share-international.org

Response:

as long as we remain in our delusion little world about how we’ve done nothing wrong, and never will, we’re headed for disaster.  Bush is a very simple man, colliding with a very, very, very complex world.  It’s like a freight train colliding with a yugo, Bush’s simplistic mind colliding with the vast, hugely complex world.   I’m sure Bush didn’t know the names of all those cities like Falluja, al-Najaf , Karbala, Kirkuk, Basra before he invaded the country.  He didn’t know all those cities were different, were each individually a different situation.

Response:

I’m very glad that this marine had the integrity to do the right thing and to speak out – even though it wasn’t the popular thing to do. It’s too bad our news media is too corrupt to give us fair and balanced pictures of what’s going on. Thankfully, the web enables us to visit news media outlets with genuine moral fiber who help us to get a better view! http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 As Americans we share part of the blame/responsibility for what is done in our name, with our tax dollars.

I don’t see it that way.  Thousands upon thousands of Americans said "NOT IN MY NAME!" to no avail. The "blame/responsibility for what is done" rests upon those who commit the outraiges, not upon people who have no control whatsoever.  And face it, "our tax dollars" are extorted for the most part, the super rich paying little to nothing while workers shoulder the burden.  "We, the People-" deligated the power to declare war to "our Congress" not the quasi-elected de facto king Dubya and it’s not "our" fault the trust of government has been betrayed.  Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld should be locked up, and forced to scrub pots and toilets for the rest of their days. That would be justice.

That list is a bit short…. Loving Light, Sanity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [chomp]

Response:

I’m very glad that this marine had the integrity to do the right thing and to speak out – even though it wasn’t the popular thing to do. It’s too bad our news media is too corrupt to give us fair and balanced pictures of what’s going on. Thankfully, the web enables us to visit news media outlets with genuine moral fiber who help us to get a better view! http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 As Americans we share part of the blame/responsibility for what is done in our name, with our tax dollars.  Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld should be locked up, and forced to scrub pots and toilets for the rest of their days. That would be justice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this could be called: ‘a report on how some of our tax dollars are being used’. Remember that the Iraqi people posed no threat to us and did not have anything to do with 9-11 or al-queda. The Marine’s tale: ‘We killed 30 civilians in six weeks. I felt we were committing genocide’ By Natasha Saulnier During 12 years in the US Marines, including three years putting new recruits through boot camp, Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey hardly questioned his role. But what he saw in Iraq changed that. "In a month and a half my platoon and I killed more than 30 civilians," Mr Massey said. He saw bodies being desecrated and robbed, and wounded civilians being dumped by the roadside without medical treatment. After he told his commanding officer that he felt "we were committing genocide", he was called a "wimp". Mr Massey, who was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress and depression, left the Marines in November. Back home in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina, he says the cause of the uprising in Iraq is that "we killed a lot of innocent people". The incident that haunts him most took place early in April, near an Iraqi military compound five miles from Baghdad’s airport. "There were approximately 10 demonstrators near a tank," he said. "We heard a shot in the distance and we started shooting at them. They all died except for one. We left the bodies there. "We noticed that there were some RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] about 200 metres away from them – they might have come from the military compound. The demonstrators had the ability to fire at us or at the tank, but they didn’t. The survivor was hiding behind a column about 150 metres away from us. I pointed at him and waved my weapon to tell him to get away. Half of his foot had been cut off. He went away dragging his foot. We were all laughing and cheering. "Then an 18-wheeler [truck] came speeding around. We shot at it. One of the guys jumped out. He was on fire. The driver was dead. Then a Toyota Corolla came. We killed the driver, the other guy came out with his hands up. We shot him too. "A gunny from Lima Company came running and said to us: ‘Hey, you just shot that guy, but he had his hands up.’ My unit, my commander and me were relieved of our command for the rest of the day. Not more than five minutes later, the Lima Company took up our position and shot a car with one woman and two children. They all died." The next day the platoon guarded a checkpoint at Baghdad Stadium. "A red Kia Spectra sped toward us at about 45mph. We fired a warning volley above it but the car kept coming. Then we aimed at the car and fired with full force. The Kia came to a stop right in front of me, three of the four men shot dead, the fourth wounded and covered in blood. We called the medics, but he died before they arrived. That day we killed three more civilians in the same circumstances. I talked to my captain afterwards and told him: ‘It’s a bad day.’ He said: ‘No, it’s a good day.’" Mr Massey watched as badly injured Iraqis were repeatedly "tossed on the side of the road without calling medics". His reaction to the event that triggered the recent siege of Fallujah – the sight of the blackened, mutilated bodies of four American private security men – was that "we did the same thing to them". Iraqis, he said, "would see us debase their dead all the time. We would be messing around with charred bodies, kicking them out of the vehicles and sticking cigarettes in their mouths. I also saw vehicles drive over them. It was our job to look into the pockets of dead Iraqis to gather intelligence. However, time and time again, I saw Marines steal gold chains, watches and wallets full of money." Several members of his platoon expressed concern that so many civilians were being killed, but Mr Massey says he told them: "We’ve got a job to do." Finally, however, he voiced his own doubts to his commanding officer. "I told him I felt like we were committing genocide in Iraq, that we were doing harm to a culture. He said nothing and walked away. I knew my career was over." Later, he says, his superior poured abuse on him, saying, "You’re a poor leader. You’re faking it. You’re a conscientious objector, you’re a wimp." After being sent back to the US, Mr Massey was offered a desk job. "I had seven years until retirement from the Marine Corps, but I told them I didn’t want their money any more," he said. The Marines’ slogan – "No better friend, no worse enemy" – now embitters the former sergeant, who says remorse keeps him awake at night. "One day we would go into a city and set up roadblocks where civilian casualties would take place, and then the next morning we would undertake a humanitarian mission," he said. "How do we expect people who’ve seen their brothers and mothers killed to turn around and welcome us with open arms?" http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 If Clinton can be impeached for lying about his interactions with one very seductive intern, then surely Bush can be impeached for lying his fool head off – to justify the Iraq invasion and occupation. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11!   http://www.votetoimpeach.org www.commondreams.org www.democracynow.org Only the truth will set us free from war and tyrants. Guns, bombs, murders, executions, and lies will only make it all worse. Could there possibly be a more idiotic ‘war on terrorism’? Unfortunately a large percentage of Americans minds are so deceived by corporate and US gov’t propaganda that the truth about certain things (like the the invasion and occupation) is unbelievable in their view.   The American corporate news industry is a big fat cash cow for the super rich who also own the American politicians, the oil companies, and the ‘war machine’ (defense) corporations. They want to make more and more and more and more money,  NOT to tell the people the truth about what’s going on, or to support democracy.  Only the truth will set us free from tyrants, fear, and needless bloodshed. http://www.commondreams.org "Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be no peace; without peace there can be no future." Maitreya, The World Teacher   http://www.share-international.org

Response:

No one I know of, except Jon Cardinal, is buying into the lie that the US needed to launch a first strike against Iraq. "Winning the hearts and minds" of people whose innocent family members you’ve killed and maimed is not possible. Get out of Iraq. Top posted by, Sanity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this could be called: ‘a report on how some of our tax dollars are being used’. Remember that the Iraqi people posed no threat to us and did not have anything to do with 9-11 or al-queda. The Marine’s tale: ‘We killed 30 civilians in six weeks. I felt we were committing genocide’ By Natasha Saulnier During 12 years in the US Marines, including three years putting new recruits through boot camp, Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey hardly questioned his role. But what he saw in Iraq changed that. "In a month and a half my platoon and I killed more than 30 civilians," Mr Massey said. He saw bodies being desecrated and robbed, and wounded civilians being dumped by the roadside without medical treatment. After he told his commanding officer that he felt "we were committing genocide", he was called a "wimp". Mr Massey, who was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress and depression, left the Marines in November. Back home in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina, he says the cause of the uprising in Iraq is that "we killed a lot of innocent people". The incident that haunts him most took place early in April, near an Iraqi military compound five miles from Baghdad’s airport. "There were approximately 10 demonstrators near a tank," he said. "We heard a shot in the distance and we started shooting at them. They all died except for one. We left the bodies there. "We noticed that there were some RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] about 200 metres away from them – they might have come from the military compound. The demonstrators had the ability to fire at us or at the tank, but they didn’t. The survivor was hiding behind a column about 150 metres away from us. I pointed at him and waved my weapon to tell him to get away. Half of his foot had been cut off. He went away dragging his foot. We were all laughing and cheering. "Then an 18-wheeler [truck] came speeding around. We shot at it. One of the guys jumped out. He was on fire. The driver was dead. Then a Toyota Corolla came. We killed the driver, the other guy came out with his hands up. We shot him too. "A gunny from Lima Company came running and said to us: ‘Hey, you just shot that guy, but he had his hands up.’ My unit, my commander and me were relieved of our command for the rest of the day. Not more than five minutes later, the Lima Company took up our position and shot a car with one woman and two children. They all died." The next day the platoon guarded a checkpoint at Baghdad Stadium. "A red Kia Spectra sped toward us at about 45mph. We fired a warning volley above it but the car kept coming. Then we aimed at the car and fired with full force. The Kia came to a stop right in front of me, three of the four men shot dead, the fourth wounded and covered in blood. We called the medics, but he died before they arrived. That day we killed three more civilians in the same circumstances. I talked to my captain afterwards and told him: ‘It’s a bad day.’ He said: ‘No, it’s a good day.’" Mr Massey watched as badly injured Iraqis were repeatedly "tossed on the side of the road without calling medics". His reaction to the event that triggered the recent siege of Fallujah – the sight of the blackened, mutilated bodies of four American private security men – was that "we did the same thing to them". Iraqis, he said, "would see us debase their dead all the time. We would be messing around with charred bodies, kicking them out of the vehicles and sticking cigarettes in their mouths. I also saw vehicles drive over them. It was our job to look into the pockets of dead Iraqis to gather intelligence. However, time and time again, I saw Marines steal gold chains, watches and wallets full of money." Several members of his platoon expressed concern that so many civilians were being killed, but Mr Massey says he told them: "We’ve got a job to do." Finally, however, he voiced his own doubts to his commanding officer. "I told him I felt like we were committing genocide in Iraq, that we were doing harm to a culture. He said nothing and walked away. I knew my career was over." Later, he says, his superior poured abuse on him, saying, "You’re a poor leader. You’re faking it. You’re a conscientious objector, you’re a wimp." After being sent back to the US, Mr Massey was offered a desk job. "I had seven years until retirement from the Marine Corps, but I told them I didn’t want their money any more," he said. The Marines’ slogan – "No better friend, no worse enemy" – now embitters the former sergeant, who says remorse keeps him awake at night. "One day we would go into a city and set up roadblocks where civilian casualties would take place, and then the next morning we would undertake a humanitarian mission," he said. "How do we expect people who’ve seen their brothers and mothers killed to turn around and welcome us with open arms?" http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 If Clinton can be impeached for lying about his interactions with one very seductive intern, then surely Bush can be impeached for lying his fool head off – to justify the Iraq invasion and occupation. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11!   http://www.votetoimpeach.org www.commondreams.org www.democracynow.org Only the truth will set us free from war and tyrants. Guns, bombs, murders, executions, and lies will only make it all worse. Could there possibly be a more idiotic ‘war on terrorism’? Unfortunately a large percentage of Americans minds are so deceived by corporate and US gov’t propaganda that the truth about certain things (like the the invasion and occupation) is unbelievable in their view.   The American corporate news industry is a big fat cash cow for the super rich who also own the American politicians, the oil companies, and the ‘war machine’ (defense) corporations. They want to make more and more and more and more money,  NOT to tell the people the truth about what’s going on, or to support democracy.  Only the truth will set us free from tyrants, fear, and needless bloodshed. http://www.commondreams.org "Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be no peace; without peace there can be no future." Maitreya, The World Teacher   http://www.share-international.org

Response:

this could be called: ‘a report on how some of our tax dollars are being used’. Remember that the Iraqi people posed no threat to us and did not have anything to do with 9-11 or al-queda. The Marine’s tale: ‘We killed 30 civilians in six weeks. I felt we were committing genocide’ By Natasha Saulnier During 12 years in the US Marines, including three years putting new recruits through boot camp, Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey hardly questioned his role. But what he saw in Iraq changed that. "In a month and a half my platoon and I killed more than 30 civilians," Mr Massey said. He saw bodies being desecrated and robbed, and wounded civilians being dumped by the roadside without medical treatment. After he told his commanding officer that he felt "we were committing genocide", he was called a "wimp". Mr Massey, who was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress and depression, left the Marines in November. Back home in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina, he says the cause of the uprising in Iraq is that "we killed a lot of innocent people". The incident that haunts him most took place early in April, near an Iraqi military compound five miles from Baghdad’s airport. "There were approximately 10 demonstrators near a tank," he said. "We heard a shot in the distance and we started shooting at them. They all died except for one. We left the bodies there. "We noticed that there were some RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] about 200 metres away from them – they might have come from the military compound. The demonstrators had the ability to fire at us or at the tank, but they didn’t. The survivor was hiding behind a column about 150 metres away from us. I pointed at him and waved my weapon to tell him to get away. Half of his foot had been cut off. He went away dragging his foot. We were all laughing and cheering. "Then an 18-wheeler [truck] came speeding around. We shot at it. One of the guys jumped out. He was on fire. The driver was dead. Then a Toyota Corolla came. We killed the driver, the other guy came out with his hands up. We shot him too. "A gunny from Lima Company came running and said to us: ‘Hey, you just shot that guy, but he had his hands up.’ My unit, my commander and me were relieved of our command for the rest of the day. Not more than five minutes later, the Lima Company took up our position and shot a car with one woman and two children. They all died." The next day the platoon guarded a checkpoint at Baghdad Stadium. "A red Kia Spectra sped toward us at about 45mph. We fired a warning volley above it but the car kept coming. Then we aimed at the car and fired with full force. The Kia came to a stop right in front of me, three of the four men shot dead, the fourth wounded and covered in blood. We called the medics, but he died before they arrived. That day we killed three more civilians in the same circumstances. I talked to my captain afterwards and told him: ‘It’s a bad day.’ He said: ‘No, it’s a good day.’" Mr Massey watched as badly injured Iraqis were repeatedly "tossed on the side of the road without calling medics". His reaction to the event that triggered the recent siege of Fallujah – the sight of the blackened, mutilated bodies of four American private security men – was that "we did the same thing to them". Iraqis, he said, "would see us debase their dead all the time. We would be messing around with charred bodies, kicking them out of the vehicles and sticking cigarettes in their mouths. I also saw vehicles drive over them. It was our job to look into the pockets of dead Iraqis to gather intelligence. However, time and time again, I saw Marines steal gold chains, watches and wallets full of money." Several members of his platoon expressed concern that so many civilians were being killed, but Mr Massey says he told them: "We’ve got a job to do." Finally, however, he voiced his own doubts to his commanding officer. "I told him I felt like we were committing genocide in Iraq, that we were doing harm to a culture. He said nothing and walked away. I knew my career was over." Later, he says, his superior poured abuse on him, saying, "You’re a poor leader. You’re faking it. You’re a conscientious objector, you’re a wimp." After being sent back to the US, Mr Massey was offered a desk job. "I had seven years until retirement from the Marine Corps, but I told them I didn’t want their money any more," he said. The Marines’ slogan – "No better friend, no worse enemy" – now embitters the former sergeant, who says remorse keeps him awake at night. "One day we would go into a city and set up roadblocks where civilian casualties would take place, and then the next morning we would undertake a humanitarian mission," he said. "How do we expect people who’ve seen their brothers and mothers killed to turn around and welcome us with open arms?" http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=523992 If Clinton can be impeached for lying about his interactions with one very seductive intern, then surely Bush can be impeached for lying his fool head off – to justify the Iraq invasion and occupation. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11!   http://www.votetoimpeach.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.commondreams.org www.democracynow.org Only the truth will set us free from war and tyrants. Guns, bombs, murders, executions, and lies will only make it all worse. Could there possibly be a more idiotic ‘war on terrorism’? Unfortunately a large percentage of Americans minds are so deceived by corporate and US gov’t propaganda that the truth about certain things (like the the invasion and occupation) is unbelievable in their view.   The American corporate news industry is a big fat cash cow for the super rich who also own the American politicians, the oil companies, and the ‘war machine’ (defense) corporations. They want to make more and more and more and more money,  NOT to tell the people the truth about what’s going on, or to support democracy.  Only the truth will set us free from tyrants, fear, and needless bloodshed. http://www.commondreams.org "Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be no peace; without peace there can be no future." Maitreya, The World Teacher   http://www.share-international.org

Response: