Question:
kajira hill <odalis…@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:r1r5ft8b7noqti1uhvb0phcf47aj65e6uq@4ax.com… > It seems to me that "fallout from systematic abuse over a prolonged > period" is an accurate description of PTSD, not an adjunct. I suppose > however, if he was actually "humoring you" to begin with, the fact the > doctor came up with this on his own is a good sign of his acceptance > that you indeed suffer PTSD.
Well thankfully this diagnosis came from a really sensitive and caring psychiatric assessor. I would have just got a kooky smile from my doctor and gone away feeling humored and crazy. > =Thanks heavens! Still seems to be an awful lot of catching up to do, > =certainly in the UK. We are behind USA on PTSD. Until 1981 they thought only > =Americans could get it!!!! And that is true! 
> How odd, what with all the horror of WWII in the UK.
Rather than admit that a psychiatric illness such as PTSD was real, the British Medical top-dogs just took the attitude that it was only a problem on the other side of the pond (even though it amounted to xenophobia and saying that Americans were physically another species, basically!). Either that or it was just a silly fad that had no real substance. That changed when the World Health Organization wrote it’s own definition of PTSD, thankfully! Of course, I think the fact that avoiding having to offer compensation to those suffering as a result of time in the military etc. could have had something to do with it. BFN, Cary Charles
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I am a vietnam combat veteran, 100% disabled by PTSD. Over a year ago I was an inpatient in a VA PTSD program for two months. What I learned about the biochemistry of PTSD was very helpful. When one cycles, as I call it, the survival mode kicks in originating in the lower brain stem. This activates the adrenal glands and chemicals are released into the blood stream, not all of which have been researched , but norepinepherine, dopamine, seratonin and others have. The blood leaves the brain to prepare the muscles to react to a threat, leaving the cognitive, thinking mode of the brain with inadequate ability to reason, only learned reactions occur. These chemical releases are responsible for various effects in the body: tension in musculture and release of hydrocloric acid in stomach, also in my case some chemicals released cause rashes, skin eruptions, and terrible itching among other symptoms. For me the best approach I learned to cope with these responses was to control my breathing, learn meditative modes for relaxing, and slowly turn off these systems. That is not an easy job when these things are happening at a rate of 0 to 100 in mear seconds. By doing some research on current sites like the VA’s Nat. PTSD Center and others you may gain some understanding………….I hope this gives you a starting place from which to look………….Ivan
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kajira hill <odalis…@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:63q5ftoaanthd5s337kligr5aj31mouceb@4ax.com… > Pardon me Cary, but I would most certainly search out a different > doctor. It sounds to me as if this one that you’re seeing has > absolutely no respect for anything you tell him. Try getting a second > opinion somewhere — find someone who will actually be a doctor, not a > disparaging authority figure.
Thank you for that Kajira. I think that is what I have to do. I know it is not personal to me – he doesn’t believe in candida as a real health problem, for instance. Problem is he is most local and I have little ability to get around. I think I will try others in the practice. Partly it worries me though as I would like to think that at least if he knew nothing for me, my eventual diagnosis would make him take such things a bit more seriously and he might be more respectful to others. I find it upsetting that other people in my situation might get this kind of treatment. A nice demeanor also confuses me, but then he also tends to just smile and not offer any help. I will have to try others in the practice. Thanks for your input BFN, Cary Charles
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In replying to Cary Charles mailto:c…@spamless.blueyonder.co.uk> Catherine <bienven…@home.com> wrote in message
news:SJ1I6.76752$k04.15229321@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com… > > Good point. That assumes the person is not just writing you off as a > > nutcase. I have feared mine to be doing that quite often, > I always felt that from MD’s and most PhD’s, as well.
Well, as I have just written in my post to homo@home, I was actually TOLD that I had been thought of as a nutcase. I can laugh at it, but it does show how uphill the struggle for appropriate help has been. I had not played up, always been clear on what I was experiencing and polite. Rather than explore causes my doc opted for the easy label rather than looking into something he didn’t understand, even slightly. > Thanks. I only just realized the duration. It’s come as quite a shock!
It must have! > > Then another time I was accused of being a drinker because my liver count > > was really bad, and when I explained that I don’t tend to drink – > literally > > maybe one glass of wine a month – I was treated like a liar. Very > > frustrating. > That would be adding insult to injury for most, but for people struggling > with the helplessness after trauma, it runs far deeper, being thought of as > a liar. I feel irate just reading about it!!
Now consider that the abuse all happened to me because . . . my father was an alcoholic, and that I hardly touch drink for that very reason. I have quite an aversion – prefer to be in control of what is happening than under the influence, plus I am determined not to make the same mistakes. In light of this and how PTSD can drive people to booze, I could get a little credibility or respect . . . but no. Not yet anyway. > I sometimes feel I’m on shaky ground when I lend my > experience/thoughts/feelings in hope of helping. It’s nice to know you > found some of it helpful.
Definitely BFN, Cary Charles http:cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
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Hi kajira! > =Remember, recovery from PTSD is more involved with refusing to fight than > =fighting PTSD. > Gosh, this is rather profound. I certainly feel much better since > refusing to fight — but that has resulted in my being a hermit. I > had no more energy or strength to withstand certain people and cut > them out of my life. Somehow I don’t think this is what you meant? > Just curious.
Well, let’s see. A hermit has little or no contact with other humans. I certainly hope that the folks on this ng with whom you have contact are human. And, I know (from personal experience) that you have contact with me (as I am responding to your post So, I’m not sure that I agree with your statement that you are a hermit. It seems to me that you are dealing with folks from a ’safe distance’. Sometimes a safe distance involves not receiving input until I am ready … a good reason for using the ng for communication as I don’t have to read or respond to anything until _I_ am ready. As recovery continues I am sure that both of us will redefine ‘a safe distance’ in other terms. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
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excellent distinction Nancy – I am the same way, I can chat up a storm here but in rl I hardly talk to anyone – especially anyone obnoxious, I get an irresistable urge to swing them around by their ears – but instead I just walk away, so I’m learning hehehehehe — RB for more information – hold down Alt and press F4 "Nancy Irwin" <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message
news:9cvk5l$t28@dispatch.concentric.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi kajira! > > =Remember, recovery from PTSD is more involved with refusing to fight than > > =fighting PTSD. > > Gosh, this is rather profound. I certainly feel much better since > > refusing to fight — but that has resulted in my being a hermit. I > > had no more energy or strength to withstand certain people and cut > > them out of my life. Somehow I don’t think this is what you meant? > > Just curious. > Well, let’s see. A hermit has little or no contact with other humans. I > certainly hope that the folks on this ng with whom you have contact are > human. And, I know (from personal experience) that you have contact with > me (as I am responding to your post > So, I’m not sure that I agree with your statement that you are a hermit. > It seems to me that you are dealing with folks from a ’safe distance’. > Sometimes a safe distance involves not receiving input until I am ready … > a good reason for using the ng for communication as I don’t have to read or > respond to anything until _I_ am ready. > As recovery continues I am sure that both of us will redefine ‘a safe > distance’ in other terms. > Smile and there will be something to smile about! > Nancy
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Cary Charles <c…@spamless.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:KVwI6.434$3C1.96936@news1.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> homo@home <ba…@home.com> wrote in message > news:3AF09F39.3C5DDEFD@home.com… > > Without the input of a knowledgeable psychiatrist, I find that we get > > treated quite shabbily. I’ve encountered some behind the scenes > > attitudes towards people who are diagnosed with ptsd that just isn’t > > acceptable. We’re considered whiny, drug seekers, hypochondriacs, and > > the like. I was really surprised and shocked by the attitudes, some from > > doctors just graduating. > I have experienced all of these and was even told when I finally got the > diagnosis I had had to fight so hard for, that I had been labelled a nutcase > and that they only did the diagnosis to humour me because I had got a > private diagnosis elsewhere, and they were worried about a malpractice case. > Their enthusiastic diagnosis of nutcase had been heightened, apparently, by > the fact that I had written a letter which actually listed research findings > regarding PTSD, as everyone dealing with me had been so misinformed and I > had been getting nowhere. > My assessor was appalled by the treatment I had received and told me I > definitely had a case, albeit with a whisper. That isn’t the issue though. > The issue is just wanting to have some help, and for a little *respect*. > Hopefully, when treatment comes, things will be more appropriate. > BFN, > Cary Charles > Cary- I don’t know about what you’ve heard from others, but I am
disgusted how often I hear this kind of story! Are you involved with any victims’ rights programs? I started to get involved, but began to feel too unsafe to reach out. Now, I’m getting back in touch with my anger, which makes me want to be more active. I, personally, am a victim of a crime as well as the family stuff. (It should all be a crime!) Anyway, thanks for speaking up. -Catherine
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homo@home <ba…@home.com> wrote in message
news:3AF09F39.3C5DDEFD@home.com… > Without the input of a knowledgeable psychiatrist, I find that we get > treated quite shabbily. I’ve encountered some behind the scenes > attitudes towards people who are diagnosed with ptsd that just isn’t > acceptable. We’re considered whiny, drug seekers, hypochondriacs, and > the like. I was really surprised and shocked by the attitudes, some from > doctors just graduating.
I have experienced all of these and was even told when I finally got the diagnosis I had had to fight so hard for, that I had been labelled a nutcase and that they only did the diagnosis to humour me because I had got a private diagnosis elsewhere, and they were worried about a malpractice case. Their enthusiastic diagnosis of nutcase had been heightened, apparently, by the fact that I had written a letter which actually listed research findings regarding PTSD, as everyone dealing with me had been so misinformed and I had been getting nowhere. My assessor was appalled by the treatment I had received and told me I definitely had a case, albeit with a whisper. That isn’t the issue though. The issue is just wanting to have some help, and for a little *respect*. Hopefully, when treatment comes, things will be more appropriate. BFN, Cary Charles
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Kat wrote: > Hey Ron, > you sure hit the nail on the head.
It’s really pathetic, especially since I’ve been noticing just how many street kids have been diagnosed (ptsd, anxiety disorders, etc.), and/or are on meds like zyprexa, luvox, clonazepam, etc.
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Kat <kathi…@frontiernet.net> wrote : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi Cary, >I don’t know anything about any studies or facts about it, but I know what >I’ve experienced. I hope this helps? >1. TMJ Syndrome, (jaw pain is a daily thing) >2. Blinding headaches that come and go >3. Ulcers and gastric reflux for years >4. Severe diarreah during times of stress >5. Permanent nerve damage in both arms, unexplained, but documented by >EMG’s. Have had one surgery, but am very reluctant to have more. I will if >it gets worse, but for now, I can live with it. >6. Nerve damage/SEVERE pain in the low back. They’ve used all kinds of >things trying to help me deal with the pain. Narcotics, physical therapy, >TENS unit, cortisone shots in the spinal cord. It’s a constant thing. I >take 1200mg of Neurontin a day, if I screw up and miss a dose, I pay for it. >I also take Oxycontin or Duragesic patches as needed for the pain, but I try >to avoid that as much as possible because I just don’t like how it affects >my mind. Can’t remember shit when I’m on narcotics. It got so bad last >year that I put my 38 in the safe box at the bank so I wouldn’t blow my >brains out. I just flat wanted to die rather than live like that. >7. For some bizarre reason, again, that no physician can figure out, my >hips go out of place. The physical therapist had to teach my husband how to >help "slide" my hip back into place. This affects both hips and can hit at >any time. It knocks me right down to the floor when it happens. >8. Sjogren’s Syndrome, which is a type of autoimmune disease that affects >the eyes, mucus membranes, the skin, kidneys, nervous system, lungs, etc. >The doctors suspect, but are not for sure, that this is what’s caused all >the nerve damage I have. >Considering the amount of stress we have to deal with on a daily basis, it’s >no wonder it takes such a horrific toll on our bodies.
Hi Kat, That is an awesome list. I hope things get better for you. Having been told (when happy!) that I am depressed and need prozac (even though it makes me really ill) I often wonder what it would be like to give a healthy doctor this kind of barrage of symptoms for a month, and then see how they manage. It is really hard, and it seems that there is so much to the chemical side of PTSD that is as yet unrecognised. I do feel for you, and even share some of it myself, sadly! BFN, Cary Charles http://www.cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
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Nancy Irwin <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message
news:9cpho2$hnr@dispatch.concentric.net… > General family physicians are _not_ paid to be ’strong’ on ailments for > which there is not a physical diagnosis. That’s why psychiatrists exist … > and they work closely with general physicians when emotional stuff (PTSD, > for example) is making physical symptoms worse. > I think that it is unreasonable to expect a non-psychiatrist to know much > about PTSD. Many psychiatrists don’t know much about PTSD in the USA. For > example, a one-time visit with a ‘diagnosing psychiatrist’ ended with my > being labelled BiPolar. My own psychiatrist said that this is not true … > in 8 years she has yet to see me manic. So, IME if a general physician will > just treat me physical needs, that is enough.
I guess what I was referring to is the fact that in the waiting room, flicking through any number of women’s magazines, I often see an article about stress effects and PTSD. Then I go in to the office, my doctor doubts that I have anything wrong, makes me feel like a nut and says, ‘Well . . . PTSD . . . what’s that.’ As psychiatrists failed to diagnose me (they labelled me manic too in what seemed like a light hearted pic’n'mix of illnesses, until it became clear it was totally inappropriate) and I am now in the 5th month of waiting to get any help beyond my GP (after 22 years of misdiagnosis), well, the fact that my GP knows nothing about my ailment yet gets to make crucial decisions out of complete ignorance is very worrying and frustrating. I don’t want to bash the medical profession in the slightest as I know there are a lot of good people out there, but I do think it would help if the person seeing me were at least of a mind that I might not be just making it up. Aaaaahhhhh . . . at least that let the frustration out I probably sound angrier than I am, but it is hard to deal with all this as well as the PTSD itself. Quite a strain. BFN, Cary Charles
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nancy Irwin wrote: > Hi Cary! > > I think part of my situation is that my doctor is not really that strong > on > > anything other than physical ailments. The guy who diagnosed me told me as > > much. So really I have to look at whether to change doctors. The attitude > I > > encounter when I next go will probably answer the question, but there is a > > fear of jumping from one situation to a worse one. > General family physicians are _not_ paid to be ’strong’ on ailments for > which there is not a physical diagnosis. That’s why psychiatrists exist … > and they work closely with general physicians when emotional stuff (PTSD, > for example) is making physical symptoms worse.
Without the input of a knowledgeable psychiatrist, I find that we get treated quite shabbily. I’ve encountered some behind the scenes attitudes towards people who are diagnosed with ptsd that just isn’t acceptable. We’re considered whiny, drug seekers, hypochondriacs, and the like. I was really surprised and shocked by the attitudes, some from doctors just graduating.
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Hey Ron, you sure hit the nail on the head. kath – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve encountered some behind the scenes > attitudes towards people who are diagnosed with ptsd that just isn’t > acceptable. We’re considered whiny, drug seekers, hypochondriacs, and > the like. I was really surprised and shocked by the attitudes, some from > doctors just graduating.
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Hi Cary! > I think part of my situation is that my doctor is not really that strong on > anything other than physical ailments. The guy who diagnosed me told me as > much. So really I have to look at whether to change doctors. The attitude I > encounter when I next go will probably answer the question, but there is a > fear of jumping from one situation to a worse one.
General family physicians are _not_ paid to be ’strong’ on ailments for which there is not a physical diagnosis. That’s why psychiatrists exist … and they work closely with general physicians when emotional stuff (PTSD, for example) is making physical symptoms worse. I think that it is unreasonable to expect a non-psychiatrist to know much about PTSD. Many psychiatrists don’t know much about PTSD in the USA. For example, a one-time visit with a ‘diagnosing psychiatrist’ ended with my being labelled BiPolar. My own psychiatrist said that this is not true … in 8 years she has yet to see me manic. So, IME if a general physician will just treat me physical needs, that is enough. YMMV Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
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Cary Charles <c…@spamless.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qOUH6.5195$X91.623726@news1.cableinet.net… > Catherine <bienven…@home.com> wrote in message > news:y75H6.66176$k04.13217043@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com… > > Hi Cary. First, I am new to this whole Newsgroups thing, so pardon me if > > I’m doing this wrong. > Hi Catherine, > Well, I am basically new to this newsgroup so we are newbies together
Great! A compatriot! Thanks for replying. Pas de quoi! My pleasure! > > I have had PTS(D) for 30 years. During that time I have seen 15 > therapists > > with varying backgrounds degrees and specializations, to include a few > MD’s > > and a lot of EMDR. What I have found is that, the more education > > the person has, the more book knowledge he/she brings to the treatment and > > therefore there is little room for intuitive input and plain listening to > > what the client is saying. Just my experience and supported by friends’ > > experiences as well. > Good point. That assumes the person is not just writing you off as a > nutcase. I have feared mine to be doing that quite often,
I always felt that from MD’s and most PhD’s, as well. thus it will be > interesting to see if there are any changes now that I have gained the > proper diagnosis at last. And PTSD for 30 years, wow! That is longer than > me. I wish you all the luck in the world.
Thanks. I only just realized the duration. It’s come as quite a shock! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Any stress will affect people in a variety of ways. It is all individual, > > but what you’re describing sounds like every single symptom could well be > a > > result of PTS(D). (I don’t consider the stress one experiences after a > > life-threatening situation a "disorder.") > Interesting point! > > It doesn’t mean, however, and > > please excuse me if I am now joining the ranks of the patronizing, that > > there couldn’t be a medical condition that results and/or exacerbates the > > symptom. I feel that if you sense that these conditions are symptoms > > of PTS, then go with it. You’re probably right. > Another good point. My problem has been that I have not been able to turn up > any unusual abnormalities in tests, other than the occasionally odd > blood-count etc. I was once told I had a chronic problem with the white > blood cell count.
My mom has had a really high white blood cell count that’s still a mystery to doctors. If I find out anything, I’ll post it. > Then another time I was accused of being a drinker because my liver count > was really bad, and when I explained that I don’t tend to drink – literally > maybe one glass of wine a month – I was treated like a liar. Very > frustrating.
That would be adding insult to injury for most, but for people struggling with the helplessness after trauma, it runs far deeper, being thought of as a liar. I feel irate just reading about it!! > I think part of my situation is that my doctor is not really that strong on > anything other than physical ailments. The guy who diagnosed me told me as > much. So really I have to look at whether to change doctors. The attitude I > encounter when I next go will probably answer the question, but there is a > fear of jumping from one situation to a worse one. > > Just my thoughts on it. -Catherine > And helpful thoughts they were. Thanks Catherine
Thanks for saying so. I sometimes feel I’m on shaky ground when I lend my experience/thoughts/feelings in hope of helping. It’s nice to know you found some of it helpful. Catherine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BFN, > Cary Charles > http:cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
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Cary Charles <c…@spamless.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XCUH6.5175$X91.617242@news1.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nancy Irwin <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message > news:9cgvoc$qt8@dispatch.concentric.net… > > While PTSD is a psychiatric disorder, it certainly does have physical > > repercussions. The one with which I am most familiar is the jaw tension > as > > my dentist has been working with this one on me. He says that a study out > > of St. John’s University is the current definitive study on stress/tension > > and oral disorders (Buspar is the recommended med . You can ask about > the > > study at: > > http://dentistry.about.com/health/dentistry/ > Thanks for that! Sorry you experience that too! Can be very uncomfortable > and annoying. > > From what I’m learning, the phsycial results of long-term stress caused by > > ‘anything’ include the results of post traumatic stress. Thus, you might > > just look up long-term stress physical aspects, rather than being specific > > with PTSD. > Hmmm. That is really helpful. I hadn’t thought of it that way. > > Your comment about gastric upset in certainly one of the physical > > manifestations. Upper and lower GI problems are common with the PTSDers > in > > my therapy group. Sleep disorders are also common; the psychiatrist has a > > handout whenever anyone mentions sleep problems and asks routinely for us > to > > keep sleep diaries. Personally, I decided that it was easier to just > accept > > the problem, but YMMV. > Gosh. A PTSD therapy group. Sounds really good. I wonder if they have such a > thing in the UK. I suspect they don’t.
Try contacting someone in the military. They might be able to direct you to some groups that are geared to general trauma recovery. I must say, however, that my own quest for such a group was unsuccessful. After years without a group that fit my type of trauma, a therapist finally designed one to suit my need, which was general trauma, not geared specifically toward any one root cause. I have had the GI problems for years. > It was just treated with things like Gaviscon (not sure if brand name is > same in US but it is an antacid that leaves a protective coating as well). > However, my ongoing problem has been fatigue in particular, and that is a > side effect from such medicines apparently. Hence I only use them when it > gets really bad. It seems that nausea might occur when I am recovering from > an adrenaline push. In other words, if I have been triggered, nausea usually > follows in a matter of hours – often the next morning. I wonder if this is > actually a sign of chemical withdrawal from the adrenaline.
I used to be tired all the time, but since EMDR, so much less hangs on my moments… I mean, the ease with which I go through experiences now… it’s, well, all I can really say is that a part of me is finally FREE! I feel moments of such lightness. I never knew life could feel that way! Right now they’re just windows I get, but it’s more than before! And anything’s better than nothing! I’m still getting new windows of "heavy" stuff. I’ve wondered about the nausea and stomach cramps that I’ve begun getting, too. My sense of the nausea, in my case, is due to a few different factors: one is that it’s an actual physical memory; two is that I want to reject the experience, so it’s like a physical metaphor for the emotional; three would be I guess the same thing you’re saying, about the chemical response. > > Dermatology visits are also common among my PTSD group. We all seem to > have > > standing appointments. My experience was a rash spreading from my scalp > > across my face; a special shampoo seems to control this … apparently it > > changes the pH of my skin for a while and keeps down the ‘bad’ flora. :/
If it is in fact "bad flora" that’s the cause, it could be candida. Taking acidophilus and omiting refined and fermented foods and especially sweeteners, could help. Being stressed and taking good care of oneself is like oil and water. It’s a hard cycle to break! > These things are so frustrating. It is an effort just to try to look normal! > I get regular flare-ups on various patches. Never fully cured by anything so > far. I wonder if such symptoms tend to die down once one has received > treatment for the PTSD? > > Among women who have been raped and later suffered PTSD, hysterectomies > and > > other female physical ailments (especially ovarian cysts) seem common. > > Breast cancer also seems common.
Also, lower back and hip problems are common amongst rape survivors, especially if it occured during childhood. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wonder if men are more likely to have breast cancer, then. If that > extrapolates to the larger PTSD population. It is staggering how this > illness creates a chain of other problems. > > However, these are not data that I am aware have been formally studied > with > > PTSD in mind. The information cited above is merely point data from my > > awareness and education with therapists over the last decade. > Sounds very probable though, considering these illnesses’ relation to > stress. > > I guess that the easiest way to relate to family doctors is to tell them > > your symptoms. I usually preface my symptoms with ‘I don’t know what > caused > > this but …’. After a year or so of being faced with no better > > explaination than long-term stress (aka PTSD), my doctor finally looked it > > up … somewhere … and we discuss that, whether or not the physcial > stuff > > is caused by mind stuff, it is still physical stuff which needs treating. > > In this situation, we both need a sense of humor. :/ > Well, I had talked for ages about the stress with numerous doctors, then > moved to this one. I kept pushing that something was wrong and he was just > wanting to push the Prozac, which tends to make me throw up – though it does > make me feel a bit safer, feeling grotty all the time wears me down. Finally > I paid privately for a diagnosis and that persuaded my doctor to refer me > for an assessment. There was an air of just being humoured here, and my > wasting time and money, but he did it and I was then finally diagnosed with > not only PTSD but also fallout from systematic abuse over a prolonged > period. > I hope my doctor will be better as I was told he was going to be put fully > in the picture, especially regarding the fact that has real physical > consequences. As for a sense of humour, well yes indeed. A huge part of my > frustration is that my doctor just looks perplexed at every little symptom, > then doubtful. Maybe that will be different next time. I would like to think > that he is a little more informed now. > > If you relate PTSD as being long-term physical stress, your doctor may be > > able to relate better. > Thanks for that. I will give it a try! > >One of long-term stress’ side effects is high > > cholesterol. Guess who put me on lipitor as soon as my numbers started > > creeping up. :/ > cholesterol! I had not realised that. I will have to check it. I had not > heard of Lipitor, but I had a look at their webpage. It sounds good, but the > part about any unexplained aches etc. possibly being warnings of side > effects, well that would confuse me totally. I am already full of aches, so > how would I know where one began and one ended? > > > If these things are part of what we sufferers experience, why aren’t > they > > > listed more often? > > Before 1980, PTSD symptoms so scared the professionals that they called it > > ’shell shock’ and locked us in padded rooms with overdoses of medications. > > Life for us is a lot better now with new treatments, etc. > Thanks heavens! Still seems to be an awful lot of catching up to do, > certainly in the UK. We are behind USA on PTSD. Until 1981 they thought only > Americans could get it!!!! And that is true!
I don’t know if this is an appropriate thing to insert here. I’m not up on this website’s rules of etiquette, but here goes: Please let me know if this is not okay. I think it’s hysterical! During WW II an American soldier had been on the front lines in Europe for three months, when he was finally given a week of R&R He caught a supply boat to a supply base in the south of England, and then caught a train to London. The train was extremely crowded and he could not find a seat. He was dead on his feet and walked the length of the train looking for any place to sit down. Finally he found a compartment with seats facing each other; there was room for two people on each seat. On one side sat only a proper looking, older British lady, with a small dog sitting in the empty seat beside her. "Could I please sit in that seat?" he asked. The lady was insulted. "You bloody Americans are so rude," she said. "Can’t you see my dog is sitting there?" He walked through the train once more and still could not find a seat. He found himself back at the same place. "Lady, I love dogs – have a couple at home – so I would be glad to hold your dog if I could sit down," he said. The lady replied, "You Americans are not only rude – you are arrogant too." He leaned against the wall for a time, but was so tired he finally said, "Lady, I’ve been on the front lines in Europe for three months with not a decent rest for all that time. Could I please sit there and hold your dog?" The lady replied, "You Americans are not only rude and arrogant, you are also obnoxious!" With that comment, the soldier calmly stepped in, picked up the dog, threw it out the window, and sat down. The lady was speechless. An older, neatly dressed Englishman sitting across on the other seat spoke up. "Young man, I do not know if all you Americans fit the lady’s description of you or not. But I do know that you Americans do a lot of things wrong. You drive on the wrong side of the road, you hold your fork with the wrong hand,and now you have just thrown the wrong … read more »
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Hi Cary, I don’t know anything about any studies or facts about it, but I know what I’ve experienced. I hope this helps? 1. TMJ Syndrome, (jaw pain is a daily thing) 2. Blinding headaches that come and go 3. Ulcers and gastric reflux for years 4. Severe diarreah during times of stress 5. Permanent nerve damage in both arms, unexplained, but documented by EMG’s. Have had one surgery, but am very reluctant to have more. I will if it gets worse, but for now, I can live with it. 6. Nerve damage/SEVERE pain in the low back. They’ve used all kinds of things trying to help me deal with the pain. Narcotics, physical therapy, TENS unit, cortisone shots in the spinal cord. It’s a constant thing. I take 1200mg of Neurontin a day, if I screw up and miss a dose, I pay for it. I also take Oxycontin or Duragesic patches as needed for the pain, but I try to avoid that as much as possible because I just don’t like how it affects my mind. Can’t remember shit when I’m on narcotics. It got so bad last year that I put my 38 in the safe box at the bank so I wouldn’t blow my brains out. I just flat wanted to die rather than live like that. 7. For some bizarre reason, again, that no physician can figure out, my hips go out of place. The physical therapist had to teach my husband how to help "slide" my hip back into place. This affects both hips and can hit at any time. It knocks me right down to the floor when it happens. 8. Sjogren’s Syndrome, which is a type of autoimmune disease that affects the eyes, mucus membranes, the skin, kidneys, nervous system, lungs, etc. The doctors suspect, but are not for sure, that this is what’s caused all the nerve damage I have. Considering the amount of stress we have to deal with on a daily basis, it’s no wonder it takes such a horrific toll on our bodies.
Response:
I just wanted to say that I am SO grateful for all your replies. I will reply in more detail a bit later, but I am not really all that good at present. A collective thanks to you all anyway. It is such a help to know that it is not just me! Though of course I wish in a way it was as at least then the suffering wouldn’t be hitting so many! I will reply in a bit more detail soon as I am up to it. BFN, Cary Charles http://www.cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Response:
BaliKris <balik…@aol.comzipspam> wrote in message
news:20010429032130.26506.00001218@ng-fv1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cary, there is a portion of Aphrodite Matsakis’ book "I Can’t Get Over It" that > goes into some of the physiological responses to trauma and how the "re-wire" > someone, resulting in PTSD. I’m a chronic pain sufferer and I know that some > of my pain comes from the "bracing" of my muscles that has deteriorated into > this chronic myofascial pain syndrome (permanent whiplash – but in my spine). > Hypervigilance is part of PTSD and bracing muscles is part of the physiology, > and the book goes into the neurotransmitter activity in trauma and PTSD. > I would suggest seaching library catalogs for more info, as I have found a > wealth of books out there that supply bits of information on different aspects. > Good luck and glad to meet you, > Kristine > The unexamined life is not worth living – Socrates
Hi Kristine Thanks for your reply, I will have to look that book up. I am in the UK and our libraries tend to be underfunded – thus the books are not all that up to date. It is really helpful that you said about the muscle bracing and hypervigilance. I hadn’t thought of it, yet it is so obvious now that I have heard it! Not to mention topical as I have been getting worse aches and pains lately, particularly in legs. Thanks BFN, Cary Charles http:www.cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Response:
Nancy Irwin <ki…@cris.com> wrote in message
news:9cgvoc$qt8@dispatch.concentric.net… > While PTSD is a psychiatric disorder, it certainly does have physical > repercussions. The one with which I am most familiar is the jaw tension as > my dentist has been working with this one on me. He says that a study out > of St. John’s University is the current definitive study on stress/tension > and oral disorders (Buspar is the recommended med . You can ask about the > study at: > http://dentistry.about.com/health/dentistry/
Thanks for that! Sorry you experience that too! Can be very uncomfortable and annoying. > From what I’m learning, the phsycial results of long-term stress caused by > ‘anything’ include the results of post traumatic stress. Thus, you might > just look up long-term stress physical aspects, rather than being specific > with PTSD.
Hmmm. That is really helpful. I hadn’t thought of it that way. > Your comment about gastric upset in certainly one of the physical > manifestations. Upper and lower GI problems are common with the PTSDers in > my therapy group. Sleep disorders are also common; the psychiatrist has a > handout whenever anyone mentions sleep problems and asks routinely for us to > keep sleep diaries. Personally, I decided that it was easier to just accept > the problem, but YMMV.
Gosh. A PTSD therapy group. Sounds really good. I wonder if they have such a thing in the UK. I suspect they don’t. I have had the GI problems for years. It was just treated with things like Gaviscon (not sure if brand name is same in US but it is an antacid that leaves a protective coating as well). However, my ongoing problem has been fatigue in particular, and that is a side effect from such medicines apparently. Hence I only use them when it gets really bad. It seems that nausea might occur when I am recovering from an adrenaline push. In other words, if I have been triggered, nausea usually follows in a matter of hours – often the next morning. I wonder if this is actually a sign of chemical withdrawal from the adrenaline. > Dermatology visits are also common among my PTSD group. We all seem to have > standing appointments. My experience was a rash spreading from my scalp > across my face; a special shampoo seems to control this … apparently it > changes the pH of my skin for a while and keeps down the ‘bad’ flora. :/
These things are so frustrating. It is an effort just to try to look normal! I get regular flare-ups on various patches. Never fully cured by anything so far. I wonder if such symptoms tend to die down once one has received treatment for the PTSD? > Among women who have been raped and later suffered PTSD, hysterectomies and > other female physical ailments (especially ovarian cysts) seem common. > Breast cancer also seems common.
I wonder if men are more likely to have breast cancer, then. If that extrapolates to the larger PTSD population. It is staggering how this illness creates a chain of other problems. > However, these are not data that I am aware have been formally studied with > PTSD in mind. The information cited above is merely point data from my > awareness and education with therapists over the last decade.
Sounds very probable though, considering these illnesses’ relation to stress. > I guess that the easiest way to relate to family doctors is to tell them > your symptoms. I usually preface my symptoms with ‘I don’t know what caused > this but …’. After a year or so of being faced with no better > explaination than long-term stress (aka PTSD), my doctor finally looked it > up … somewhere … and we discuss that, whether or not the physcial stuff > is caused by mind stuff, it is still physical stuff which needs treating. > In this situation, we both need a sense of humor. :/
Well, I had talked for ages about the stress with numerous doctors, then moved to this one. I kept pushing that something was wrong and he was just wanting to push the Prozac, which tends to make me throw up – though it does make me feel a bit safer, feeling grotty all the time wears me down. Finally I paid privately for a diagnosis and that persuaded my doctor to refer me for an assessment. There was an air of just being humoured here, and my wasting time and money, but he did it and I was then finally diagnosed with not only PTSD but also fallout from systematic abuse over a prolonged period. I hope my doctor will be better as I was told he was going to be put fully in the picture, especially regarding the fact that has real physical consequences. As for a sense of humour, well yes indeed. A huge part of my frustration is that my doctor just looks perplexed at every little symptom, then doubtful. Maybe that will be different next time. I would like to think that he is a little more informed now. > If you relate PTSD as being long-term physical stress, your doctor may be > able to relate better.
Thanks for that. I will give it a try! >One of long-term stress’ side effects is high > cholesterol. Guess who put me on lipitor as soon as my numbers started > creeping up. :/
cholesterol! I had not realised that. I will have to check it. I had not heard of Lipitor, but I had a look at their webpage. It sounds good, but the part about any unexplained aches etc. possibly being warnings of side effects, well that would confuse me totally. I am already full of aches, so how would I know where one began and one ended? > > If these things are part of what we sufferers experience, why aren’t they > > listed more often? > Before 1980, PTSD symptoms so scared the professionals that they called it > ’shell shock’ and locked us in padded rooms with overdoses of medications. > Life for us is a lot better now with new treatments, etc.
Thanks heavens! Still seems to be an awful lot of catching up to do, certainly in the UK. We are behind USA on PTSD. Until 1981 they thought only Americans could get it!!!! And that is true! > > Finally thanks in advance to anyone who answers this message, and also > just > > for the courage you put in fighting the PTSD. > Rmember, recovery from PTSD is more involved with refusing to fight than > fighting PTSD.
Yes. That is a really good point. Thanks for everything, Nancy. BFN, Cary Charles http:cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Response:
Catherine <bienven…@home.com> wrote in message
news:y75H6.66176$k04.13217043@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com… > Hi Cary. First, I am new to this whole Newsgroups thing, so pardon me if > I’m doing this wrong.
Hi Catherine, Well, I am basically new to this newsgroup so we are newbies together Thanks for replying. > I have had PTS(D) for 30 years. During that time I have seen 15 therapists > with varying backgrounds degrees and specializations, to include a few MD’s > and a lot of EMDR. What I have found is that, the more education > the person has, the more book knowledge he/she brings to the treatment and > therefore there is little room for intuitive input and plain listening to > what the client is saying. Just my experience and supported by friends’ > experiences as well.
Good point. That assumes the person is not just writing you off as a nutcase. I have feared mine to be doing that quite often, thus it will be interesting to see if there are any changes now that I have gained the proper diagnosis at last. And PTSD for 30 years, wow! That is longer than me. I wish you all the luck in the world. > Any stress will affect people in a variety of ways. It is all individual, > but what you’re describing sounds like every single symptom could well be a > result of PTS(D). (I don’t consider the stress one experiences after a > life-threatening situation a "disorder.")
Interesting point! > It doesn’t mean, however, and > please excuse me if I am now joining the ranks of the patronizing, that > there couldn’t be a medical condition that results and/or exacerbates the > symptom. I feel that if you sense that these conditions are symptoms > of PTS, then go with it. You’re probably right.
Another good point. My problem has been that I have not been able to turn up any unusual abnormalities in tests, other than the occasionally odd blood-count etc. I was once told I had a chronic problem with the white blood cell count. Then another time I was accused of being a drinker because my liver count was really bad, and when I explained that I don’t tend to drink – literally maybe one glass of wine a month – I was treated like a liar. Very frustrating. I think part of my situation is that my doctor is not really that strong on anything other than physical ailments. The guy who diagnosed me told me as much. So really I have to look at whether to change doctors. The attitude I encounter when I next go will probably answer the question, but there is a fear of jumping from one situation to a worse one. > Just my thoughts on it. -Catherine
And helpful thoughts they were. Thanks Catherine BFN, Cary Charles http:cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Response:
Hi all, I have had PTSD for 22 years now and am on a waiting list for treatment. In the meantime I am trying to make sense of it all. I have been diagnosed but no doctors I have seen seem informed on the physical aspects of the illness. It all just seems to be about cognition etc. While I know that is very useful, and I intend to explore it, I would definitely like to find out more about the physical effects of the illness as I seem to come across occasional hints to such aspects in web searches on research etc. Is there anywhere where such information exists. All the PTSD info I have seen only details the usual non-physical things – i.e. avoidance etc. I have ongoing awful stomach problems, jaw-tension, really bad aching in legs and sometimes fingers, skin problems, cannot sleep ’til I am exhausted, tremors sometimes etc. . . Also, I am very limited in what I can do as if I do more than a little all the symptoms increase dramatically and become unbearable. For example, my system goes really acidic with upset stomachs and what seems like a urinary infection. I remember being told by one PTSD person ages ago that when the body reacts to a trigger, the energy is directed to the muscles that will get you away from a situation, namely the arms and legs. When this happens, the stomach muscles over-relax and hence stomach acid spills – hence the hyperacidity. Can anyone else verify this? Are these things typical or am I as odd as my doctor implies with his slightly patronizing expressions? I know I have read bits every now and then when dropping into this group from time to time as a lurker. My doctor just looks at me like I am either making it up or just being stupid. If these things are part of what we sufferers experience, why aren’t they listed more often? Finally thanks in advance to anyone who answers this message, and also just for the courage you put in fighting the PTSD. I DO know how hard it is, and all I can say is thankyou for sharing your journeys so bravely, and that I wish you all so much release and happiness. BFN, Cary Charles http://www.cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Response:
Cary, there is a portion of Aphrodite Matsakis’ book "I Can’t Get Over It" that goes into some of the physiological responses to trauma and how the "re-wire" someone, resulting in PTSD. I’m a chronic pain sufferer and I know that some of my pain comes from the "bracing" of my muscles that has deteriorated into this chronic myofascial pain syndrome (permanent whiplash – but in my spine). Hypervigilance is part of PTSD and bracing muscles is part of the physiology, and the book goes into the neurotransmitter activity in trauma and PTSD. I would suggest seaching library catalogs for more info, as I have found a wealth of books out there that supply bits of information on different aspects. Good luck and glad to meet you, Kristine The unexamined life is not worth living – Socrates
Response:
Hi Cary! > I have been diagnosed but > no doctors I have seen seem informed on the physical aspects of the illness. > It all just seems to be about cognition etc.
While PTSD is a psychiatric disorder, it certainly does have physical repercussions. The one with which I am most familiar is the jaw tension as my dentist has been working with this one on me. He says that a study out of St. John’s University is the current definitive study on stress/tension and oral disorders (Buspar is the recommended med . You can ask about the study at: http://dentistry.about.com/health/dentistry/ From what I’m learning, the phsycial results of long-term stress caused by ‘anything’ include the results of post traumatic stress. Thus, you might just look up long-term stress physical aspects, rather than being specific with PTSD. Your comment about gastric upset in certainly one of the physical manifestations. Upper and lower GI problems are common with the PTSDers in my therapy group. Sleep disorders are also common; the psychiatrist has a handout whenever anyone mentions sleep problems and asks routinely for us to keep sleep diaries. Personally, I decided that it was easier to just accept the problem, but YMMV. Dermatology visits are also common among my PTSD group. We all seem to have standing appointments. My experience was a rash spreading from my scalp across my face; a special shampoo seems to control this … apparently it changes the pH of my skin for a while and keeps down the ‘bad’ flora. :/ Among women who have been raped and later suffered PTSD, hysterectomies and other female physical ailments (especially ovarian cysts) seem common. Breast cancer also seems common. However, these are not data that I am aware have been formally studied with PTSD in mind. The information cited above is merely point data from my awareness and education with therapists over the last decade. I guess that the easiest way to relate to family doctors is to tell them your symptoms. I usually preface my symptoms with ‘I don’t know what caused this but …’. After a year or so of being faced with no better explaination than long-term stress (aka PTSD), my doctor finally looked it up … somewhere … and we discuss that, whether or not the physcial stuff is caused by mind stuff, it is still physical stuff which needs treating. In this situation, we both need a sense of humor. :/ > Are these things typical or am I as odd as my doctor implies with his > slightly patronizing expressions? I know I have read bits every now and then > when dropping into this group from time to time as a lurker. My doctor just > looks at me like I am either making it up or just being stupid.
If you relate PTSD as being long-term physical stress, your doctor may be able to relate better. One of long-term stress’ side effects is high cholesterol. Guess who put me on lipitor as soon as my numbers started creeping up. :/ > If these things are part of what we sufferers experience, why aren’t they > listed more often?
Before 1980, PTSD symptoms so scared the professionals that they called it ’shell shock’ and locked us in padded rooms with overdoses of medications. Life for us is a lot better now with new treatments, etc. > Finally thanks in advance to anyone who answers this message, and also just > for the courage you put in fighting the PTSD.
Rmember, recovery from PTSD is more involved with refusing to fight than fighting PTSD. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Response:
Hi Cary. First, I am new to this whole Newsgroups thing, so pardon me if I’m doing this wrong. I have had PTS(D) for 30 years. During that time I have seen 15 therapists with varying backgrounds degrees and specializations, to include a few MD’s and a lot of EMDR. What I have found is that, the more education the person has, the more book knowledge he/she brings to the treatment and therefore there is little room for intuitive input and plain listening to what the client is saying. Just my experience and supported by friends’ experiences as well. Any stress will affect people in a variety of ways. It is all individual, but what you’re describing sounds like every single symptom could well be a result of PTS(D). (I don’t consider the stress one experiences after a life-threatening situation a "disorder.") It doesn’t mean, however, and please excuse me if I am now joining the ranks of the patronizing, that there couldn’t be a medical condition that results and/or exacerbates the symptom. I feel that if you sense that these conditions are symptoms of PTS, then go with it. You’re probably right. Just my thoughts on it. -Catherine Cary Charles <c…@spamless.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6uJG6.6231$Mz.895007@news1.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > I have had PTSD for 22 years now and am on a waiting list for treatment. In > the meantime I am trying to make sense of it all. I have been diagnosed but > no doctors I have seen seem informed on the physical aspects of the illness. > It all just seems to be about cognition etc. While I know that is very > useful, and I intend to explore it, I would definitely like to find out more > about the physical effects of the illness as I seem to come across > occasional hints to such aspects in web searches on research etc. > Is there anywhere where such information exists. All the PTSD info I have > seen only details the usual non-physical things – i.e. avoidance etc. > I have ongoing awful stomach problems, jaw-tension, really bad aching in > legs and sometimes fingers, skin problems, cannot sleep ’til I am exhausted, > tremors sometimes etc. . . Also, I am very limited in what I can do as if I > do more than a little all the symptoms increase dramatically and become > unbearable. For example, my system goes really acidic with upset stomachs > and what seems like a urinary infection. > I remember being told by one PTSD person ages ago that when the body reacts > to a trigger, the energy is directed to the muscles that will get you away > from a situation, namely the arms and legs. When this happens, the stomach > muscles over-relax and hence stomach acid spills – hence the hyperacidity. > Can anyone else verify this? > Are these things typical or am I as odd as my doctor implies with his > slightly patronizing expressions? I know I have read bits every now and then > when dropping into this group from time to time as a lurker. My doctor just > looks at me like I am either making it up or just being stupid. > If these things are part of what we sufferers experience, why aren’t they > listed more often? > Finally thanks in advance to anyone who answers this message, and also just > for the courage you put in fighting the PTSD. I DO know how hard it is, and > all I can say is thankyou for sharing your journeys so bravely, and that I > wish you all so much release and happiness. > BFN, > Cary Charles > http://www.cary.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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