Trauma - PTSD » Post Traumatic Disorder

Can anyone relate? or does anyone know of the appropriate support group to turn to?

admin — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Response:

Hi — Many of us have been where you are right now. Being overwhelmed is not a sign of weakness. I hope you will tell your doctor about all this and ask for a referral to a psychiatrist right away. It sounds as if you could benefit from medication(s) as well as some psychotherapy, preferably cognitive behavioral therapy. Please seek professional help and let us know how you’re doing. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.. and welcome to ASAPM, You will find many kind and supportive people here who know all too well what it is like to live with the things you describe in your post. Please don’t give up hope! I’m 55 years old… male… and had my first panic attack at age 15. Waaaaaaay back then, there was little known about panic disorder and agoraphobia… and I, quite literally, thought I was going crazy. Since that time, there have been many ups and downs. At one point, I was becoming more and more homebound… but I kept working on it, found a good therapist, used meds, and eventually began to see improvement. What are the things I would suggest to you? Not knowing anything other than what you have written, I would urge you to do the following: 1. Find a good therapist who is familiar with working with patients with PD and agoraphobia. Just as in any profession, there are good ones …. and not so good. Search until you find someone you trust and who you feel can really help you. Cognigive Behavioral Therapy is known to work well with PD and agoraphobia… so a therapist who uses CBT would be great! 2. Read, read, read….. everything you can find…. about these disorders. The more you know…. and understand the symptoms…. the better you will be able to deal with them. The symptoms may not disappear…. but knowledge can help to take away some of the fear! 3. Lastly…. rely on support of family, friends, and others who have *been there*. Use this group as a resource. You will find a lot of knowledge here…. and people who can sympathize with the feelings you are having! Please hang in there…. and keep writing and sharing! It *CAN* get better! I’m living proof!! As I said in the beginning, don’t give up hope! As a good friend of mine says, you are not alone! Best wishes! MikeH

Mike is right. To be honest, I’ve gotten better since I found this group about 5 months ago. Just being able to talk about it is a tremendous help. I still don’t want to leave my house, I still don’t have good feeling about myself, I still wake up to night sweats, heart palpitations, stomach flutters, mind racing, etc., but since I’ve been able to talk about it here, it hasn’t happened as frequently. In fact (and those of you who sort of the block, but I was thrilled to be able to do so. Maybe in a while I’ll be able to get the courage to get a driver’s license. :~) I have all of you to thank for that. So, yeah, hang in there. We’re right there with you. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi. Talk to a few different docs, try a few different methods (med & non-med). Keep in mind there is a bit of trial & error because everyone seems to respond differently to certain prescriptions. Keep an open mind and don’t give up. Years ago when I was in my own mental seventh circle of hell, I thought there was no escape. But over time there was. There are an awful lot of people that have similar problems. So battle in best you can and find a doc that keeps your best interest in mind! -z-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, As much as I dread writing this, I know that my declining slide into this abyss of emotional destruction will not fix itself, and I must Find help. I’m a 45 year old female with multiple issues, they are getting worse by the day and I have no clue how to halt this or find help that will be of benefit. I suffer from extreme anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, (I’m told bi-polar, but I have my doubts, I think it’s pure depression, at least with bi-polar I’d have an "UP" once in a while", Night terrors, What self esteem I had has been decimated. I cannot stop my thought about myself from constantly turning negative. This all began about 18 months ago, over that time I have had 3 significant traumatic events occur in my life. I believe I would have been able to withstand one of them and have been fine, but the three consecutive events together, created a mess and destroyed the person I had worked so hard to become. I have overcome so much in my life, I’m not a weak person, not one to deny my responsibility for my actions, or my responsibilty for my recovery. I don’t like to blame others for events in my life, and I hate feeling as though I have no control, which is where I find myself at the moment. first of all I see that when I feel threatened my subconcious has a defense mode it falls into. I seem to tear myself to shred and destroy myself every way conceivable to make me invisible and unlovable, as apparently I have lost the ability to love myself. I am so saddened that I can be so compassionate with anyone else, but so hard on myself. If there is anyone who knows somewhere that would be helpful for me, I would truly appreciate their input. If knowing the details of the events that have transpired are important, please ask me, and I’ll have no problem boring you to death with them. At this point, I’ve lost hope, purpose, meaning and probably reason. I’m a prisoner in my home, For reasons I cannot fathom, my mind is constantly pointing out every mistake I have ever made and my internal voice is insisting I’m a horrible person. I know from past experiences, that our thoughts are very powerful, and while I can rationalize or try to prevent myself from allowing those thought to overtake me, i’m not winning. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Kili, There was a period of time I couldn’t drive my car when it was parked in front of the garage INTO the garage…ugh! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Kili, Way to go! Get your license, come to Ohio and help me with my fear of driving…

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :: In fact (and those of you who sort of around ::the block, but I was thrilled to be able to do so. Maybe in a while I’ll be ::able to get the courage to get a driver’s license. :~) I have all of you ::to thank for that. Dear Kili, Wonderful, wonderful news! Don’t minimize your accomplishment by saying it was ‘just’ around the block. That block probably felt like around the world for you (((((Kili)))))

Thanks, it did feel pretty good. :~) kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Kili, Way to go! Get your license, come to Ohio and help me with my fear of driving…

Hey Kili, you could drive wherever you like a block at a time! Well done, keep driving that block! A license would give you more independence, I’d want to get one myself but here in .nl you need driving lessons and exams which are really *very* expensive. — Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Kili, Way to go! Get your license, come to Ohio and help me with my fear of driving…

According to the proverb, each journey starts with a single step!! — Ron P What? Me worry??? hahahaha Yah right!! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thank you so much to everyone who responded, it really means a lot to me to know I am not alone out here in the world of isolation. I know I need a good therapist, but I also know I’m not ready; I was hoping to find a good online support group that meets and chats real time, does anyone know of any? not that I would know what to say, but just being in the presence of others who understand is comforting. thanks, Stina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, As much as I dread writing this, I know that my declining slide into this abyss of emotional destruction will not fix itself, and I must Find help. I’m a 45 year old female with multiple issues, they are getting worse by the day and I have no clue how to halt this or find help that will be of benefit. I suffer from extreme anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, (I’m told bi-polar, but I have my doubts, I think it’s pure depression, at least with bi-polar I’d have an "UP" once in a while", Night terrors, What self esteem I had has been decimated. I cannot stop my thought about myself from constantly turning negative. This all began about 18 months ago, over that time I have had 3 significant traumatic events occur in my life. I believe I would have been able to withstand one of them and have been fine, but the three consecutive events together, created a mess and destroyed the person I had worked so hard to become. I have overcome so much in my life, I’m not a weak person, not one to deny my responsibility for my actions, or my responsibilty for my recovery. I don’t like to blame others for events in my life, and I hate feeling as though I have no control, which is where I find myself at the moment. first of all I see that when I feel threatened my subconcious has a defense mode it falls into. I seem to tear myself to shred and destroy myself every way conceivable to make me invisible and unlovable, as apparently I have lost the ability to love myself. I am so saddened that I can be so compassionate with anyone else, but so hard on myself. If there is anyone who knows somewhere that would be helpful for me, I would truly appreciate their input. If knowing the details of the events that have transpired are important, please ask me, and I’ll have no problem boring you to death with them. At this point, I’ve lost hope, purpose, meaning and probably reason. I’m a prisoner in my home, For reasons I cannot fathom, my mind is constantly pointing out every mistake I have ever made and my internal voice is insisting I’m a horrible person. I know from past experiences, that our thoughts are very powerful, and while I can rationalize or try to prevent myself from allowing those thought to overtake me, i’m not winning. —

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:: In fact (and those of you who sort of ::the block, but I was thrilled to be able to do so. Maybe in a while I’ll be ::able to get the courage to get a driver’s license. :~) I have all of you ::to thank for that. Dear Kili, Wonderful, wonderful news! Don’t minimize your accomplishment by saying it was ‘just’ around the block. That block probably felt like around the world for you (((((Kili))))) Jackie ~*~Time heals all wounds, unless you pick at them~*~ ~~Shawn Alexander — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Kili, Way to go! Get your license, come to Ohio and help me with my fear of driving…

Ack! It was only around the block! :~) kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact (and those of you who sort of around the block, but I was thrilled to be able to do so. Maybe in a while I’ll be able to get the courage to get a driver’s license. :~) I have all of you to thank for that. On, no, Kili!! You did that all by yourself! Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!! )) Hope you are still patting yourself on the back! One block today….. two blocks the next time…. then three, four….. ) Take care! Congrats! MikeH

Thanks! It felt GLORIOUS! kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Kili, Way to go! Get your license, come to Ohio and help me with my fear of driving…

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

In fact (and those of you who sort of the block, but I was thrilled to be able to do so. Maybe in a while I’ll be able to get the courage to get a driver’s license. :~) I have all of you to thank for that.

On, no, Kili!! You did that all by yourself! Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!! )) Hope you are still patting yourself on the back! One block today….. two blocks the next time…. then three, four….. ) Take care! Congrats! MikeH . — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Welcome to ASAPM! Mike H. has written much of what I would say. I suffer/have suffered with anxiety, agoraphobia and depression myself and know how difficult life can be. Seeing a therapist and/or pdoc can really help. I always believe in nipping anxiety in the bud. The longer it goes on untreated the worse it can get. smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, As much as I dread writing this, I know that my declining slide into this abyss of emotional destruction will not fix itself, and I must Find help.

Response:

Hi, As much as I dread writing this, I know that my declining slide into this abyss of emotional destruction will not fix itself, and I must Find help. I’m a 45 year old female with multiple issues, they are getting worse by the day and I have no clue how to halt this or find help that will be of benefit. I suffer from extreme anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, (I’m told bi-polar, but I have my doubts, I think it’s pure depression, at least with bi-polar I’d have an "UP" once in a while", Night terrors, What self esteem I had has been decimated. I cannot stop my thought about myself from constantly turning negative. This all began about 18 months ago, over that time I have had 3 significant traumatic events occur in my life. I believe I would have been able to withstand one of them and have been fine, but the three consecutive events together, created a mess and destroyed the person I had worked so hard to become. I have overcome so much in my life, I’m not a weak person, not one to deny my responsibility for my actions, or my responsibilty for my recovery. I don’t like to blame others for events in my life, and I hate feeling as though I have no control, which is where I find myself at the moment. first of all I see that when I feel threatened my subconcious has a defense mode it falls into. I seem to tear myself to shred and destroy myself every way conceivable to make me invisible and unlovable, as apparently I have lost the ability to love myself. I am so saddened that I can be so compassionate with anyone else, but so hard on myself. If there is anyone who knows somewhere that would be helpful for me, I would truly appreciate their input. If knowing the details of the events that have transpired are important, please ask me, and I’ll have no problem boring you to death with them. At this point, I’ve lost hope, purpose, meaning and probably reason. I’m a prisoner in my home, For reasons I cannot fathom, my mind is constantly pointing out every mistake I have ever made and my internal voice is insisting I’m a horrible person. I know from past experiences, that our thoughts are very powerful, and while I can rationalize or try to prevent myself from allowing those thought to overtake me, i’m not winning. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hello.. and welcome to ASAPM, You will find many kind and supportive people here who know all too well what it is like to live with the things you describe in your post. Please don’t give up hope! I’m 55 years old… male… and had my first panic attack at age 15. Waaaaaaay back then, there was little known about panic disorder and agoraphobia… and I, quite literally, thought I was going crazy. Since that time, there have been many ups and downs. At one point, I was becoming more and more homebound… but I kept working on it, found a good therapist, used meds, and eventually began to see improvement. What are the things I would suggest to you? Not knowing anything other than what you have written, I would urge you to do the following: 1. Find a good therapist who is familiar with working with patients with PD and agoraphobia. Just as in any profession, there are good ones …. and not so good. Search until you find someone you trust and who you feel can really help you. Cognigive Behavioral Therapy is known to work well with PD and agoraphobia… so a therapist who uses CBT would be great! 2. Read, read, read….. everything you can find…. about these disorders. The more you know…. and understand the symptoms…. the better you will be able to deal with them. The symptoms may not disappear…. but knowledge can help to take away some of the fear! 3. Lastly…. rely on support of family, friends, and others who have *been there*. Use this group as a resource. You will find a lot of knowledge here…. and people who can sympathize with the feelings you are having! Please hang in there…. and keep writing and sharing! It *CAN* get better! I’m living proof!! As I said in the beginning, don’t give up hope! As a good friend of mine says, you are not alone! Best wishes! MikeH

. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Dangers of Moderated Forums (YOU decide)

admin — Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

TANYA FOR PRESIDENT!! BAM!!

AMEN ! but still… NO FREE LUNCH ! (you crack me up.) ~t

Response:

Bob has been very kind to me, and I have tried to stay in touch. My own battle with the depression has kept me out of touch with many in the past couple of months. But I know that he has been very hurt by this situation, and I feel for him. For the record, I, too, disagreed with Bob’s banishment, and I did write to the moderators to offer *other* solutions.

THAT, in itself, Mike… speaks volumes. I have been a moderator of another group… and I know that it is a difficult position at times. I do, however, as *many* here, remember what ASAP was like 8 or 10 years ago… when some poor soul would come here seeking solace and support, and find that he/she had jumped into a pit of vipers! It was horrific. You might have been a match for them, Tanya…. just as Elliott and Philip were! I was not… and I fled the group back then. I’ve never been a scrapper… and perhaps that makes me less of a person in the eyes of some.

as i could say "bein’ a scrapper makes me less of a person in the eyes of some" we are all different, with different personalities, as well as different and many facets to our personalities. i, personally, don’t measure ‘more or less’ as it applies to humanity. i DO know, Mike… that you are on Bob’s list of "defining people" in his life. He speaks of you frequently. hell, i almost fell in love with ya muhself, listenin’ ta Bob ! (don’t get scared, i’m actually all talk.) i’m quite shy in person, when it comes down to it. (yer safe.) You, as well as other select people are vital to him. ~tomorrow’s another day. i don’t choose to predict the future, those that do are always wrong. i simply have high hopes. But once a friend, I’m hard to shake…

i hear tell… that with that statement… you ain’t just whistlin’ dixie. xoxoxoxoxo, Mike ! ~tanya

Response:

speaking of which, i forgot to respond to that email….i’ll respond to it tomorrow though b/c i have GOT to get some sleep. i’ve been up with my 2 oldest kids vomiting all over their rooms, everybody’s getting the flu.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TANYA FOR PRESIDENT!! BAM!! AMEN ! but still… NO FREE LUNCH ! (you crack me up.) ~t

Response:

YIKES!! STOP! YOU’RE KILLIN’ ME!!!! I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. — Groucho Marx

oh, i thought groucho said "well, that’s tha silliest thang’ah evah hoid." and w.c. fields said that thang about children’n dogs. boys never liked me for my intellectual prowess. come ta think uv it… i don’t think they ever liked me too much period. (well, maybe in small doses.) You want W.C.?

white choklit?????? Marry an outdoors woman. Then if you throw her out into the yard for the night, she can still survive.

hell, she might be so happy there she don’t come back… THEN let’s see who’d tha survivor of tha fittest when yer washin’ yer own undies. Whew! I feel better now…..

than when? ~tanya (i’ll wash yer undies. ya got’ah stand real still tho.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close relationship with my friend, lengthy discussions and knowledge of what dreams may come. This is the truth as I know it and

Response:

I hope Bob will come and post here again. I truly hope he will, maybe you can help him here? I will try too. Bob is a very nice and sensitive man and the ASAPM rejection was traumatic for him.

That has been my hope, as well. Bob has been very kind to me, and I have tried to stay in touch. My own battle with the depression has kept me out of touch with many in the past couple of months. But I know that he has been very hurt by this situation, and I feel for him. For the record, I, too, disagreed with Bob’s banishment, and I did write to the moderators to offer *other* solutions. I have been a moderator of another group… and I know that it is a difficult position at times. I do, however, as *many* here, remember what ASAP was like 8 or 10 years ago… when some poor soul would come here seeking solace and support, and find that he/she had jumped into a pit of vipers! It was horrific. You might have been a match for them, Tanya…. just as Elliott and Philip were! I was not… and I fled the group back then. I’ve never been a scrapper… and perhaps that makes me less of a person in the eyes of some. But once a friend, I’m hard to shake… Peace to all… MikeH

Response:

Your post is too long for me to reply to in its entirety

(you sayin’ i got’ah big mouth?) HAHAHAHAHHA ! ok… i couldn’t resist ! so I’ll pick a few sentences. I know your friend and I am in touch with him. It is my opinion that the ASAPM moderators made an error by banning him. That’s no secret: I told him, I told them and I suggested a different solution which would nave kept him aboard. The moderators decided otherwise and as much as I disagree with their decision I could understand their reasons. Things are rarely black or white in this world. Sometimes one wishes they were, it would be a lot easier.

i’m aware of your interaction, Philip. Bob felt dismissed by your "move on" attitude (condensed) and i tried desperately to encourage him to change his focus. Bob is not in a good place right now, and i do NOT know the content of your interaction and i assured him your intentions were nothing but good. his perception/projection of your ‘lack of sympathy’ is indicative of his state of mind right now. Bob DOES need a blast of reality that i am positive he will come to terms with all this as the obsession with this experience comes to fruition or he makes a decision to "change his focus". (i know i overuse that line). i am in no way taking your encouragement for him to "see" a different way of looking at things as a put-down. i do the same with him. He is in his own head right now, and is wondering haplessly who his friends are. Bob gets pissed and irritated at me, as well. i’m skrait up with him, as well. i never shoot tha messenger, nor the intent, or i’d be shootin’ muh own self. Support is what’s important to him now. as one that shares the OCD disorder with Bob, i’m empathetic to his hanging on to and dissecting everything, as he ‘feels’ alone, kinda like a stranger in a once familiar land. I hoped Bob would come and post here which he did most sparingly and then he disappeared again.

the memories of the once cohesive friendships he felt is stopping him from bustin’ out’ah that brick wall. i DO think the show of support that has been lavished on the topic of improper moderation will bring him back to his old self. Bob has nothing but desire to please and regain acceptence. me? i’d go eat 18 chili dogs’n a deep-fried cornish hen’n 18 key lime cheesecakes and say FUCKAHBUNCHAH Y’ALL ! but i ain’t Bob. he truly personifies the quote from W. C. Fields … ‘i would never wanna be a member of a club that would have me as a member.’ (or sumthin’ like that… in reverse.)

i think that’s kinda like sayin’ "yer dog got run over, get another dog" in Bob’s mind. I’m pretending to know what he’s thinking, i really don’t, entirely, i’m givin’ my educated guess. (oh god… that could be DANGEROUS !) familiarity is his comfort zone, new friends are way down tha road for him, he seeks redemption and acceptence of those which were his closest confindantes. Philip? Bob truly meant no harm. i’ve spoken with him at length, even the moderators said in their email to him that they knew it wasn’t his intention to hurt anyone, but intentions don’t matter. there is something way wrong with this picture. i truly hope, as you do, that Bob can overcome the actions of a ‘team’ that dictated his life via his own perception and find comfort within himself in an unmoderated forum where he can SAY’T LOUD’N SAY’T PROUD ! …and strike up his band again, as his band is more than worthy of being heard. he WILL get back to business as usual. i have my own faith that he will. it’s people like you that recharge his batteries. i’ve been in similar positions before. i needed (and still need sometimes) positive strokes from others. it’s all about insecurity. This thread will hopefully encourage him, the whole world is NOT against him. OCD sometimes works in mysterious ways, as do many of his disorders i have no understanding of. my wish for Bob coincides with yours. he feel he had/has no voice, i assured him he has one here and not to ignore this arena. This doesn’t mean that his problems at ASAPM weren’t traumatic, I know they were and I regret it. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. You are quite right that it was idiotic to take 12 days to reach a decision. However, it happened and it can’t be undone.

it CAN create a forum of prevention, though. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. This is just an assumption. How do you know what the moderators expected?

i don’t "KNOW"… i merely feel certain. I surely don’t. But all that is water under the bridge now. On the upside the friends Bob made at ASAPM (such as Vashti and Mike who both post here as well) are stil in touch with him as far as I know.

i won’t go there Anyway, you are much to be commended for standing up for a friend, you are a good person of great integrity and I have grown quite fond of you.

…as i have of you, Philip. I will tell you something that I don’t say to people every day. Because of my background I tend to divide people into two groups: those that would hide me from Da Germans if it were WWII and those who wouldn’t. (I can’t help myself and it’s not a big deal for me because I’ll quite happily socialize and enteretain valuable and profound friendships with people I wouldn’t trust when push would come to shove.) The group of people one feels one can trust with one’s life is infintely smaller than the other one but I have you chalked down for the small group (on the basis of my never failing female intuition of course . I hope Bob will come and post here again. I truly hope he will, maybe you can help him here? I will try too.

absotootly ! Bob is a very nice and sensitive man and the ASAPM rejection was traumatic for him.

THIS is what will take Bob out of the despair he’s feeling and hopefully move forward and use this experience as a lesson in "fuggem." nothing is permanent. there are no exceptions. i hope this experience to be a personal growth process for Bob, as it has been for me. i take nothing lightly when it comes to other’s pain, tho i may not express it properly, accordin’ to other’s judgment of "proper". thank you, Philip. ~tanya

Response:

TANYA FOR PRESIDENT!! BAM!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close

… read more »

Response:

Damn gal, wish I could express myself like you do. Guess some are good at one thing and some good at others, but I wish I could carve stone as well as you write. – Kinder

Response:

thank you, Kinder ! i wish i could carve stone. maybe i could be tha capitalist i dream of ! LOL … please send me pics of your carvings, i so get off on anything artistic. (i think that’s why i’m in tha tattoo business, even though i can’t tattoo OR draw a stick figure.) i do appreciate what others are able to do that i’m thoroughly incapable of… basically, i’m a star gazer that hangs on other people’s coattails and i live vicariously though the true artists.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close relationship with my friend,

… read more »

Response:

Way to go, don’t let anyone get away with CENSORSHIP, nor off site contacts.

Response:

I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine.

Your post is too long for me to reply to in its entirety so I’ll pick a few sentences. I know your friend and I am in touch with him. It is my opinion that the ASAPM moderators made an error by banning him. That’s no secret: I told him, I told them and I suggested a different solution which would nave kept him aboard. The moderators decided otherwise and as much as I disagree with their decision I could understand their reasons. Things are rarely black or white in this world. Sometimes one wishes they were, it would be a lot easier. I hoped Bob would come and post here which he did most sparingly and then he disappeared again. I also recommended a *yahoogroup* to him where he would meet very friendly and supportive people but, maybe because of lack of trust ?), he did join but didn’t participate. Maybe he will. There is more than one place on the Internet where one can get support for panic/anxiety and make friends as well. This doesn’t mean that his problems at ASAPM weren’t traumatic, I know they were and I regret it. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments.

You are quite right that it was idiotic to take 12 days to reach a decision. However, it happened and it can’t be undone. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends.

This is just an assumption. How do you know what the moderators expected? I surely don’t. But all that is water under the bridge now. On the upside the friends Bob made at ASAPM (such as Vashti and Mike who both post here as well) are stil in touch with him as far as I know. Anyway, you are much to be commended for standing up for a friend, you are a good person of great integrity and I have grown quite fond of you. I will tell you something that I don’t say to people every day. Because of my background I tend to divide people into two groups: those that would hide me from Da Germans if it were WWII and those who wouldn’t. (I can’t help myself and it’s not a big deal for me because I’ll quite happily socialize and enteretain valuable and profound friendships with people I wouldn’t trust when push would come to shove.) The group of people one feels one can trust with one’s life is infintely smaller than the other one but I have you chalked down for the small group (on the basis of my never failing female intuition of course . I hope Bob will come and post here again. I truly hope he will, maybe you can help him here? I will try too. Bob is a very nice and sensitive man and the ASAPM rejection was traumatic for him. Philip . n. I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – give you this information to be forthcoming, and that is my ONLY agenda for this exposure. I am NOT the most demure or settling poster, I speak my mind, and am not only dealt with honestly via fellow-posters, I’m no slouch in the ‘go fuck yourself’ department. I understand this group is a tad different. I have nothing but respect for whatever forum anyone feels comfortable in. I’m merely sharing my perspective, as it should most definitely be considered when and if (BIG "if") in the interest of fairness, my position regarding this highly uncomfortable issue makes it’s way to your ‘judgmental table.’ I feel quite sure this e-mail, if posted, would never slip past the ‘powers that be,’ the subjective determining committee of that which is ‘worthy,’
… read more »

Response:

there are good reasons for both groups. I post on both but I bet you wouldn’t know who I was there The number of people who think real support is here is actually deluding themselves. To get past anxiety buzzwords won’t cut it. People have to get together and deal with reality. The worse thing is for people saying wonderful without knowing anyones problems. This isn’ going to help anyone. They all get to gether to condem me cause ooooh. I actually have something to panic about ( and have been very accurate in both stock picks and global warming) . The funny part is when the same people here think this is what support is about. There are more people on my block then post here on this group. I heard over and over the ueselessness of getting people to vote out judges who voted for payraise. People and newsmedia didn’t take us seriously. For the first time in history one judge was not retained in Pa. We had hundreds of people who got together to make a difference. Not four people on usenet pretending they know whats going on with subtle reminders of support while criticizing others who really panic. so both groups and all avenues should be explored. as someone once said on a different group It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for what you are not." Andre Gide I remember Elliott or Gary posted a link to a signature about people posting and everyone said it was great. he didn’t mention it was copied I know Elliott like a book…. he unfortunately is a sorriful soul in my book. I hope he stays where he is cause the guy is dangerous.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this

… read more »

Response:

there are good reasons for both groups.

i agree. in a moderated forum, don’t you think it may be a good idea to moderate WITHIN the guidlines since these guidelines as generally used for a poster to make an informed decision as to whether he/she wants to post there. when personal laundry is used to dictate moderation, i’m thinkin’ that falls WAY out’ah the guidlelines and should be noted so. to join a group under false pretenses is unfair and a rule-breaker of major proportions. I post on both but I bet you wouldn’t know who I was there

…which has WHAT ta do with shinola? The number of people who think real support is here is actually deluding themselves.

and the people that post here KNOW that, don’t they. the decision to post is based on information that is true. there’s not trick door, no trap, no hidden agenda. BAM? … yeah, BAM ! (i thunk about that’n.) To get past anxiety buzzwords won’t cut it. that’s your opinion. you ain’t gotta come here.. start yer own group. BUT DO IT WITH ETHICS AND INTEGRITY AND EXPOSE YOUR AGENDA WITH VIGOR, AND BACKBONE AND LIVE UP TO IT ! how’s that? pretty decent? (i thunk so. < People have to get together and deal with reality. steve? did you ever think that we ARE dealing with reality? does the possibility elude you that you’re poster boy for living in a dreamworld? (just’ah thought.) < The worse thing is for people saying wonderful without knowing anyones problems. This isn’ going to help anyone. if you don’t like the forum, if you’re not feeling supported, if you’re not getting what you want from it, GET THA FUCK OUT, SHUT THA FUCK UP OR SIT THA FUCK DOWN ! you at least know what’s wrapped in this package called ASAP… there ARE no surprises. you’re well informed of the boundairies or lack thereof, the posting style of each individual (unless new), the comradery, the friendships, the FRIENDSHIPS, yeah… to ME, that’s support, so i’m perfectly comfy.. you seem NOT to be. WHY STAY? don’t you appreciate the opportunity to choose with openness and truth? (i thunk so.) you know tha score. the rest is just yer whinin’ bitchin’n moanin. if ya don’t like tha kitchen, get out’ah tha heat ! AT LEAST IT’S HONEST that transparent nuff? (i thunk so) They all get to gether to condem me cause ooooh. I actually have something to panic about ( and have been very accurate in both stock picks and global warming) .

correct. we say what we want. nobody filters us. and mere logistics AND REALITY BASED THINKING dictates FOR us that your ad nauseum complaining about the uncontrollable is NOT fixable. if it is, GO FUCKIN’ FIX IT ALREADY ! that’s kinda like complainin’ about tha salt in tha ocean. ya think if ya panic about it long enuff it’ll become freshwater? NO, Steve.. some things simply are. i have seen MANY suggest (me included) that you put these events that nature (who is MUCH bigger than we are) in another box and maybe deal with reality and the things you AE able to alter within yourself. you cannot change the world by complaining, some things are obviously not meant to be changed. i have seen MANY encourage you to step into a reality based though process and stop the madness. you’re complaining about things that are not going to change on this forum or possibly anywere else. god HELP if a meteor starts headin’ to our planet, you’re gonna insist Gary’n Elliott jump in front of it’n somehow stop it. you oughta thank yer lucky stars these people are being real with you, at least employing reality as they know it, i know it, etc. DEAL WITH YOU, THEN take on the government, global waning, and air quality (and BIRD FLU, TWEET GODDAM TWEET !) wanna thank me? (i thunk so.) am i making sense yet, Steve? or are ya gonna find a way to make me wrong. i mean i’d hate to take away your comfort zone by noting how outlandish your forum is. so go on ahead say i’m wrong. and if you’re so right, SHOW ME THE SOLUTION ! i swear… i’ll speak for the whole group.. YOU FIND THE SOLUTION TO THE WORLDS PROBLEM, WE’LL EACH AND EVERYONE SHOW UP AT OUR OWN EXPENSE AND EMPLOY YOUR TACTICS ! now… does it get much better’n that? feel bett’ah now? (i thunk so) The funny part is when the same people here think this is what support is about.

so congratulate them, they’ve found their own place in the sun. the door’s right there ——- …. you can step out it anytime YOU choose.. we will NOT choose for you based on lied and deceit. clear nuff? (i thunk so) There are more people on my block then post here on this group.

does that make iraq any less a country? (is iraq a country, btw?) I heard over and over the ueselessness of getting people to vote out judges who voted for payraise. People and newsmedia didn’t take us seriously. For the first time in history one judge was not retained in Pa. We had hundreds of people who got together to make a difference.

SO? i don’t give a good goddam about PA judges. i don’t give a good goddam about your world of oblivion of reality as possibilities. do what YOU gotta do. we don’t ALL share your need to vote for PA judges, we don’t care to stop bird flu, conspiracy theories and the government respect what we do. fair? (i thunk so) Not four people on usenet pretending they know whats going on with subtle reminders of support while criticizing others who really panic.

hey ! i really panic over finances… and i don’t see YOU down here supporting my shop and getting tattooed or pierced. and guess what. HUNDREDS in my own town do so, and not FOUR on the usenet showed up with BLATANT reminders that BELLE NEEDS MONEY !!!!!!! so until you support MY panic, don’t expect me ta support yours. and you’re still not bein’ "banned" based on a hidden agenda here ! see my point? (i thunk so.) so both groups and all avenues should be explored.

i said that already. and with valid information. when moderating flows over into personal lives, it should be noted in the charter. otherwise, there is NO informed decision possible. when the rules are not employed, when reckless behavior and life-damaging tactics are employed, fine… JUST SAY IT ! SAY IT LOUD’N SAY IT PROUD’N THA CHARTER ! agreed? (i thunk so.) as someone once said on a different group It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for what you are not."

how bout "being hated or loved is of no consequence, period. personal integrity, living up to your own standards as opposed to others is the true measure of a life well lived." ~tanya tha magnificent (correct? i thunk so.) Andre Gide I remember Elliott or Gary posted a link to a signature about people posting and everyone said it was great. he didn’t mention it was copied I know Elliott like a book…. he unfortunately is a sorriful soul in my book. I hope he stays where he is cause the guy is dangerous.

because ya choose ta dislike Elliott and have judgment about him does NOT dictate yer participation here, you’re as welcome as anyone.. nobody dictates your participation here, nor does it influence my opinion of Elliott. (i do believe yer safe tho, as i don’t predict Elliott is planning yer fate OR a trip ta yer house as we speak.) now what he does in his OWN time… in that barracaded biker clubhouse armed to tha hilt while donnin’ fatigues and pics of you with darts in em surroundin’ him’n his volumes upon volumes of the MCS CONSPIRACY THEORY and’ah calendar "x"d out daily, (and D-day noted as well, and it’s comin’ quick… DUCK !) is his bidness.

Response:

I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close relationship with my friend, lengthy discussions and knowledge of what dreams may come. This is the truth as I know it and have investigated thoroughly via reading the posted complaints, as well hearing his first hand descriptions of the many private e-mails concerning this matter. MUCH of the evidence in the form of prior e-mails, requested by the moderators along with any possible explanation from this man of even the slightest hint of impropriety was simply non accessible to my friend. He has … read more »

Response:

Many common medications can add unexpected pounds

admin — Sat, 19 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve gained weight since I stopped taking Effexor XR. I guess eating is my favorite way to work off emotional energy I didn’t eat as much when I was feeling calm and steady all day long. Tony — The charter is available at:

PTSD and Suicide (was: Re: boundary violation / spoilered for su*

admin — Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi jane, thank you for your reply. I am really glad that you are still alive. I have carefully read through your post and I really want to comment on that but I discovered that I have sooo much to tell you that I would finally get no sleep today because of that (here it’s already early in the morning). So I ask you for a little bit of patience before you kill yourself or leave the group or something. As soon as my job allows me to do so I will answer your post (during the next two days or so). Let me say two things in short about your post: 1) I understand your reactions, it’s neither your fault nor the fault of your therapist. 2) I think you should NOT quit therapy right now, but I think you should take maybe a week off, since I think that some things between you and your therapist have to be cleared first before you proceed or your therapy will make you feel worse. I’ll explain that later, need some time to do that. If you do so, be careful to tell your therapist that you don’t want to quit or there will be further misunderstandings. Hang in there, you are a good person! Take care, nv

Response:

Jane, It sounds like what you’re doing to/with your therapist is emotional hostage taking. If she won’t share her personal life with you, you will kill yourself, AND you blame her for enforcing healthy boundaries that protect you and her. You are in control of your therapy. If the abreactions and alter searching are making you suicidal, then stop. Tell her that’s not the area you want to focus your energy. What are your goals for therapy? (Other than getting to know her better.) Why did you seek therapy in the first place, and where are you in relation to those goals? The bottom line is that I think your therapist is fighting an uphill battle with you. Unless you’re ready to focus on your own issues, there’s not a chance she will be able to help you. Work toward rebuilding the therapeutic alliance you had before this incident and focus on what you can do to fix yourself. Knowing her as a friend isn’t appropriate or ethical on her part. She’s doing the right thing by withholding her personal life from your therapy sessions. You’re causing your own pain on this issue. If you’re as suicidal as you report, you would be better served to call a crisis line or seek inpatient treatment until you can live safely at home. I hope you do something positive for yourself. Risa

Response:

Jane, If you are seeking healing via non-traditional shamanic teachings, why are you focusing your energy with a Western schooled, ethically bound CSW? The more you describe what you’re looking for and your experiences with the system, the more it sounds like you’re trying to change your therapist to your way of thinking. If she has nothing to offer you in the way of healing, IN A WAY THAT IS COMFORTABLE for her, why do you continue to see her? I can tell you that you will not change her or the skills she offers to you. You could possibly get a flat spot on your forehead from banging your head against a wall, but not much else, unless you are intent on learning what futile means. Again I have to ask you, what do you expect her to do to/for you when you call professing your suicidal feelings? Is she supposed to come over to soothe you? Take you into her home and life until you’re fixed? Petition you to a hospital and create an insurmountable breach of trust? You’re creating quite a bind that neither of you will solve. Risa A day without paronomasia is like a day without punshine.

Response:

Good morning Jane and Risa. Risa brings up a very important and valuable perspective about seeking different, less traditional therapeutic practices. Like everone else here von this ng, I do not wish to minimize your trauma or to suggest that you are not in crisis. You very clearly are in crisis. I do not believe it’s too late to benefit immediately from the simplest and least complicated things.. Maybe this will help: I use ‘Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs" as my guide. I absolutely cannot do this alone. In my case, Sleep comes first. Then — Water, Mindful Nutrition, and Feeling Safe. At this basic level Therapeutic touch therapy through massage, fresh air, peaceful surroundings, affection from animals and humans, lots of light and healthy exercise come next for me. Please Do not kill yourself, Jane. We all care about you as we continue to care about each other. Take care and be of good courage, Anne on the prairie

Response:

Jane, >Is "I would never forget you no matter what" a boundary violation? She >said this loud and clear.

That’s not my question to answer, it’s up to the two of you to decide. I can say that you seem to be violating her boundaries (both professionally and personally) all over the place. It sounds like she’s been clear with her limits and you trample them down in your quest to have a more intimate relationship with someone who doesn’t want that. I would not be surprised to hear that she terminated therapy with you in the near future. Did your legal consultant tell you that you cannot force someone to be the executor of your estate? It is typical to ask the person you intend to appoint, before actually appointing them. Since you didn’t, I hope you are aware that she can decline the job after your death. I’m starting to wonder, by the tone of your posts, whether you know which one of the two of you is the therapist, and which one the client. I hope you find what you’re looking for, without destroying your therapist’s life in the process. Risa

Response:

Hi again, here comes the first part of my answer to your post. Right now I want to limit the discussion to the posssible underlying reasons for your suicidal thoughts. I will not discuss the shamanism component here, this belongs to the question how you want to proceed in therapy. Discussion of your ideas about therapy methods and how to proceed further in your therapy can be done later, one topic at a time please or I’ll get lost. I cearfully read through your first post in this thread and the overall impression I got is that, at the moment, something is going terribly wrong in the relationship between you and your therapist. You do not understand her reactions anymore, and probably she does not understand yours anymore. That is nobody’s fault. Misunderstandings happen in each and every relationship at some point in time, especially if the relationship lasts longer. It’s a human thing. It does not mean that a relationship has to be ended because of this. Misunderstandings can be solved if both parties are willing to work on solving the conflict. My experience is that the first step in solving misunderstandings is to change perspective and to see the other person through her/his own eyes. The second step is to critically review one’s own perception of the situation. However, every step must be done by _both_ parties otherwise it will result in one party feeling guilty or blaming the other. Since both of you seem to be stuck in each of your own convictions I will try to point out what I percieve if I change perspective and see you and your therapist. Since my knowledge is only based on your story and no further background information I am aware that some of my perceptions may be incorrect or will not fit. But that is irrelevant, because all I want to show you here is how to change perspective, it is an exercise example, I do not claim to be correct in every interpretation of you or your therapist. First, let me explain how I understand YOUR situation from your post: In the past your therapist was quite freely giving you information about herself. She even met you in her own living room. Well, if someone is giving me personal details about herself I start feeling some intimacy and percieve the other person as something similar to a friend. Being invited into another one’s living room would deepen this perception further. I associate the word ‘living room’ with something like ‘family life’. Being invited into it would probably cause me to feel integrated in some sort of "family". I would naturally become more interested in the other one’s life. Let me compare this to a child who gets curious about the daily activities and thoughts of its mom/dad/sister/brother….well, every one of us has something like an inner child inside herself/himself, don’t you think? So from that point your wish to know more about your therapist is completely normal and understandable. Now, your perception of your therapist as a personal friend came into the way of having a business relation with her. I figure that this caused quite a lot of ambiguous feelings inside of you: Friendship can’t be paid with money. Friendship and its compassion can’t be turned on and off by the hour. So which is what? Is my therapist my friend or not? Can I trust her? Does she really want to help me or is she only after my money? A person without a traumatic history would probably get only very confused by these ambiguous feelings but not suicidal. Therefore it is difficult for an outsider to understand the link. I don’t want to go into a thorough analysis and interpretation right now, but I assume that your suicidal feelings and this ambiguity that you feel have something to do with your past. Maybe you have felt some similar ambiguity before? A lot of abusive situations are close to the question: Does he/she use me or love me? Friend or Foe? Father/mother/relative OR abuser? Maybe you were facing death or threatened with it during these former situations? Maybe NOW the link between an ambiguous situation and death has been unconsciously reactivated? From that point of view I could understand your suicidal ideations and your ongoing internal occupation with boundary violations. Maybe you are doing this link unconsciously and are not aware of this component in your current crisis. Possibly, the behaviour of your therapist partially resembles the behaviour of your former perpetrator. Could that be the reason why you wound up in your therapy session only moarning from pain of perp and unable to speak after you have met her in the living room? Could it be that her lack of compassion, that you feel when you call her, has something in common with the lack of compassion that you experienced within your abusers? Could it be that your wish to have her for a friend and feel her compassion and your willingness to even sacrifice therapy for this goal (that you express in your recent posts) has something to do with the wish of being _really_ loved by someone without having the feeling of being used at the same time? I consider it dangerous to proceed further in therapy forcing abreactions and discoveries of new alters of your personality with this possible and maybe unconscious ambiguosity. That is one reason why I think that ONLY emotionally reexperiencing former abusive situations and abreaction doesn’t cure. In my view there has to be reflexion and analysis of this feelings not only abreaction. I think that it is very important for you AND your therapist to understand these reactions and the possible link between PAST and PRESENT. Now let me go on how I understand your therapist’s situation: I assume that at the time she was meeting you in her living room she was not aware of what upheaval this would cause to you. Meeting a patient in the therapist’s privat room is unusual and regarded as unprofessional by other therapists, so she was probably feeling guilty for your following outbreak. Therefore she went back to treating you after the textbook. No private details about the therapist, treatment is done only during therapy hours,… and so forth. I think she still likes you, but after your outbreak she is afraid to do something wrong. There is lots of fear involved in doing something apart from the textbook. Especially if the patient becomes suicidal. It is her right to refuse telling you about her private life as it is your right to refuse telling her about yours. Even friendship does respect this right! I think she feels that you invade her privat sphere by insisting to get to know more about her. Your behaviour makes her somewhat angry, I think. Maybe she feels that you want to heal yourself by healing her first (there were some indications in your recent posts that this may be actually the case). Well, unlike your therapist and many others I do NOT think that therapy is one sided, there is always an effect on the therapist. In other words: Not only the patient gets treated but also the therapist. It’s a funny thing that many therapists choose the area of their own deficits and disorders as their field of work. I don’t know if you have ever read ‘Mount Misery’ by Samuel Shem, but his ideas point in the same direction. Maybe this is due to the fact that some therapists are also hoping to get cured by treating patients with the same disorder. The therapist also learns from his patients. But this does not mean that she has to do her healing by your standards. She plays the role of a therapist you are the patient. It’s role playing and it’s called psychotherapy. If you suddenly change roles it is another game with other rules. Maybe she doesn’t want to play that way. Accepting her choice means to respect her. Healing can also be done by watching others, learning from them and applying their methods afterwards into your own. This is the basis of group therapy. You don’t have to try every method on your own, you can also watch others and see whether their methods are effective. If it is in your interest to heal your therapist you can also just let her watch and set her a good example of your own healing without involving her into your methods. As I already said above, I am aware that some of my interpretation work may not be correct. I merely wanted to show you here a way of changing perspective. I would be very interested in getting some feedback from you. I truly hope that you and your therapist will find a way to understand each other again so that you don’t have the feeling as ’speaking to a brick wall’ anymore. Take care, nv

Response:

Hi Risa, > Again I have to ask you, what do you expect her to do to/for you when you call > professing your suicidal feelings? Is she supposed to come over to soothe you? > Take you into her home and life until you’re fixed? Petition you to a hospital > and create an insurmountable breach of trust?

The fact that she isn’t hiding her thoughts from her therapist doesn’t mean that she intends blackmailing her. I percieve it as an unconscious call for help and help doesn’t have to appear in any ‘action’. Maybe jane doesn’t await any ‘action’ from her therapist, in the form of the examples you named above. Maybe she just wants to feel the therapist’s compassion, because this would help her solve the knot of projecting her former abusers into her therapist? Maybe this is the ultimative method for her and I think she is doing that unconsciously without intending any harm. I do not say that I appreciate her way, but just to interpret it in negative terms and call it ‘emotional hostage taking’ is too simple. It’s like the opinion an outsider would have without any insight into the intentions of desperate people in need of help. Furthermore, I do not say that her therapist should give in to that behaviour. But I think there is something going terribly wrong in her therapy and I see openly expressed suicidality as a way of the unconscious mind to say: "HELP ME!" Just _my_ thoughts. Take care, nv

Response:

Hi Jane, I got your private email. I also read it carefully, but I beg your pardon that I will not answer emails in this newsgroup that have been sent to me privately. I can understand that you are searching for a person you can talk to, but I never continue discussions about suicide that have been started in a newsgroup by private email. This has nothing to do with you, but there have been other people with suicidal ideas around here to whom I answered in the newsgroup and if I would continue those discussions with only one person in private there would soon be plenty of them. I am afraid that I don’t have the resources for that. Jane, I understand your situation but I am not sure that the ideas you have to ’solve’ the problem with your therapist will really help you. I accept that it is your conviction and I don’t want to interfere with your way, but did you know that if your therapist would really follow your ideas she would most certainly lose her license, would be unemployed and not able to continue therapy with you? I am not sure whether you have ever thought about this perspective since you are always repeating that you don’t want to hurt her. If you want a private relationship with her, without her losing her license, you need at least 2 years with absolutely no contact to her, neither therapy nor privat contact. After that time it is (in most US states) legally possible for her to have a relationship with you if she wants that. Do you want to wait that long? I am glad that you found some of my previous post useful for you. I don’t know much more to say at this point but maybe you can take a look into the google archives of this group. There was another person who named herself ‘abandoned’ who was suicidal as well and to whom I answered. Maybe that can help you also a bit. Google doesn’t store the posts with x-no-archive yes, so unfortunately you will probably only be able to read my replies and not the initial posts from ‘abandoned’. If I can help you any further let me know. I still hope that you don’t commit suicide and that your pain may be reduced real soon. Maybe you have read that I plan to leave this ng. I beg you here not to answer the emails I wrote today to other people, since I don’t want to start a flamewar, but just explain why this ng isn’t helpful for me anymore. That has NOTHING to do with you, OK? So please don’t feel something like guilty or angry about it. There were recently a lot of other things that are the basis of my decision for leaving or at least some absence from this newsgroup. Below, I quoted my earlier reply to one of your post. Maybe you can pick something out of it that helps you. Don’t forget that there are also other people who care about you and respect your personality the way you are. Good luck and take care of yourself, nv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -noctuvigila wrote: > Hi again, > here comes the first part of my answer to your post. > Right now I want to limit the discussion to the posssible underlying > reasons for your suicidal thoughts. I will not discuss the shamanism > component here, this belongs to the question how you want to proceed in > therapy. Discussion of your ideas about therapy methods and how to > proceed further in your therapy can be done later, one topic at a time > please or I’ll get lost. > I cearfully read through your first post in this thread and the overall > impression I got is that, at the moment, something is going terribly > wrong in the relationship between you and your therapist. You do not > understand her reactions anymore, and probably she does not understand > yours anymore. That is nobody’s fault. Misunderstandings happen in each > and every relationship at some point in time, especially if the > relationship lasts longer. It’s a human thing. It does not mean that a > relationship has to be ended because of this. Misunderstandings can be > solved if both parties are willing to work on solving the conflict. > My experience is that the first step in solving misunderstandings is to > change perspective and to see the other person through her/his own eyes. > The second step is to critically review one’s own perception of the > situation. However, every step must be done by _both_ parties otherwise > it will result in one party feeling guilty or blaming the other. Since > both of you seem to be stuck in each of your own convictions I will try > to point out what I percieve if I change perspective and see you and > your therapist. Since my knowledge is only based on your story and no > further background information I am aware that some of my perceptions > may be incorrect or will not fit. But that is irrelevant, because all I > want to show you here is how to change perspective, it is an exercise > example, I do not claim to be correct in every interpretation of you or > your therapist. > First, let me explain how I understand YOUR situation from your post: > In the past your therapist was quite freely giving you information about > herself. She even met you in her own living room. Well, if someone is > giving me personal details about herself I start feeling some intimacy > and percieve the other person as something similar to a friend. Being > invited into another one’s living room would deepen this perception > further. I associate the word ‘living room’ with something like ‘family > life’. Being invited into it would probably cause me to feel integrated > in some sort of "family". I would naturally become more interested in > the other one’s life. Let me compare this to a child who gets curious > about the daily activities and thoughts of its > mom/dad/sister/brother….well, every one of us has something like an > inner child inside herself/himself, don’t you think? So from that point > your wish to know more about your therapist is completely normal and > understandable. > Now, your perception of your therapist as a personal friend came into > the way of having a business relation with her. I figure that this > caused quite a lot of ambiguous feelings inside of you: Friendship can’t > be paid with money. Friendship and its compassion can’t be turned on and > off by the hour. So which is what? Is my therapist my friend or not? Can > I trust her? Does she really want to help me or is she only after my money? > A person without a traumatic history would probably get only very > confused by these ambiguous feelings but not suicidal. Therefore it is > difficult for an outsider to understand the link. I don’t want to go > into a thorough analysis and interpretation right now, but I assume that > your suicidal feelings and this ambiguity that you feel have something > to do with your past. Maybe you have felt some similar ambiguity before? > A lot of abusive situations are close to the question: Does he/she use > me or love me? Friend or Foe? Father/mother/relative OR abuser? Maybe > you were facing death or threatened with it during these former > situations? Maybe NOW the link between an ambiguous situation and death > has been unconsciously reactivated? > From that point of view I could understand your suicidal ideations and > your ongoing internal occupation with boundary violations. Maybe you are > doing this link unconsciously and are not aware of this component in > your current crisis. Possibly, the behaviour of your therapist partially > resembles the behaviour of your former perpetrator. Could that be the > reason why you wound up in your therapy session only moarning from pain > of perp and unable to speak after you have met her in the living room? > Could it be that her lack of compassion, that you feel when you call > her, has something in common with the lack of compassion that you > experienced within your abusers? Could it be that your wish to have her > for a friend and feel her compassion and your willingness to even > sacrifice therapy for this goal (that you express in your recent posts) > has something to do with the wish of being _really_ loved by someone > without having the feeling of being used at the same time? > I consider it dangerous to proceed further in therapy forcing > abreactions and discoveries of new alters of your personality with this > possible and maybe unconscious ambiguosity. That is one reason why I > think that ONLY emotionally reexperiencing former abusive situations and > abreaction doesn’t cure. In my view there has to be reflexion and > analysis of this feelings not only abreaction. I think that it is very > important for you AND your therapist to understand these reactions and > the possible link between PAST and PRESENT. > Now let me go on how I understand your therapist’s situation: > I assume that at the time she was meeting you in her living room she was > not aware of what upheaval this would cause to you. Meeting a patient in > the therapist’s privat room is unusual and regarded as unprofessional > by other therapists, so she was probably feeling guilty for your > following outbreak. Therefore she went back to treating you after the > textbook. No private details about the therapist, treatment is done only > during therapy hours,… and so forth. I think she still likes you, but > after your outbreak she is afraid to do something wrong. There is lots > of fear involved in doing something apart from the textbook. Especially > if the patient becomes suicidal. > It is her right to refuse telling you about her private life as it is > your right to refuse telling her about yours. Even friendship does > respect this right! I think she feels that you invade her privat sphere > by insisting to get to know more about her. Your behaviour makes her > somewhat angry, I think. > Maybe she feels that you want to heal yourself by healing her first > (there were some indications in your recent posts that this may be > actually the case). Well, unlike your therapist and many others I do NOT > think that therapy

… read more »

Response:

The Cold Winter Air (long post but maybe interesting?)

admin — Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi Artie I find that walking in the cold, windy air (especially when it gets under 32F) seems to give me a feeling in my chest of slight discomfort.

I get the same feeling. It feels like my lungs are burning when I breathe in cold air. I even had a lung function test to check for asthma but it came back negative. I start to get afraid and walk quickly back home. And walking quickly makes things worse because it speeds up my heart rate, which only makes the feeling of panic worse.

same here. Then I get short of breath because I get so nervous. I have found if I wear a scarf and put it up over my mouth it seems to help a lot. I find that very hot, humid temperatures in the summer also makes me feel that I am vulnerable for a panic attack.

I love warm weather but the really hot and humid weather I cant handle either. In the summer I take my runs very early in the morning. Heat and humidity does seem to raise my anxiety levels more than the cold. thank God these attacks are not quite as bad since the 80’s and early 90’s. Perhaps it was the Prozac that prevented these terrible events.

I am glad your attacks are not as severe now. Mine were also much worse in the 90’s. I was having them almost every day and night. Now I very rarely have a full blown panic attack. Is there any one thing that would set your nervous system out of whack?

Yes. Any traumatic event,especially involving my family.always causes me to have a major setback. My father and my grandparents deaths really set me back for a good while. Just recently my brother almost dying several times this summer and my mothers suicide attempt caused me to have really bad setbacks. Does witnessing a crime or accident make you reach for your Xanax?

yes again. When I was driving the interstate to work every day every time I saw an accident I would have a panic attack. What about riding in a plane

Never been on one. My doctor advises against it since I have PD and am also severly claustrophobic. I cant even get on an elevator and when we go on a long trip in the car i have to stop every hour. I start to get anxious and feel closed in. Does an emotional crisis set you off?

Yes. After my moms suicide attempt I couldnt sleep or eat for days. I am still having trouble dealing with it now even though she is on medicine now and doing better. What about an argument with your spouse or friend or co-worker?

No problem there. I dont argue with anyone. I grew up with arguing and fighting all the time so I try to avoid it at all cost. What about a terrible news event (such as 9/11?)

I cannot watch and will not watch tragic news events like 911 anymore. when they showed those poor people jumping off the building that was enough for me. I know lts their job to report the news but sometimes they take it to extremes. My ten year old niece was traumatized by seeing that and so was I. I find personally that a panic attack should happen to me when it really should happen, and at other times it does not occur when it should occur. I am perplexed at this, and have no answers why one thing would cause me to to feel like I am about to die, and other things don’t.

I dont think there is an explanation for this. I have been searching for the same answer for thirteen years. I had a car accident a couple of years ago and I didnt have a panic attack but I can be completely calm and not feeling anxious at all and one will hit me from out of the blue. This nervous condition works in strange ways.

So very true AT the dentist, I went through all kinds of dental work, and NOT ONE attack. BUT when I went for a quick check up AFTER THE DENTAL WORK WAS DONE, I had a panic attack!!!

I have had root canal.fillings,crowns etc and did just fine but I always have an anxiety attack when I get my teeth cleaned. It doesnt make sense does it. I had to get off the train and come back home, ruining my appointment with the psychiatrist.

I know how you feel when this happens. when I first started therapy sometimes I would get to the clinic and sit in my car trying to make myself get out and go in. Sometimes I could do it and sometimes I would drive back home and call and cancel. Without the Ativan, I would not have been able to leave the house, let alone walk at Rockefellow Center, NY. Oh well…..

I always take my xanax before I go to do something that I want to do but know it will make me extremely nervous. The way I look at it I can either take the extra pill and go and do something I really want to do or I can not take it and sit at home and have anxiety anyway over not going. Artie I really enjoyed reading and responding to your post. It seems we are both searching for the answers to a lot of questions about this disorder. Maybe someday we will be fortunate enough to get some of those answers. Deb

Response:

Here in NYC, our cold weather has started earlier than usual (the northeast has already had 2 snowstorms), and I find that walking in the cold, windy air (especially when it gets under 32F) seems to give me a feeling in my chest of slight discomfort. When this happens, I set myself up for a panic attack, and if I am more than 10 blocks away from home, I start to get afraid and walk quickly back home. And walking quickly makes things worse because it speeds up my heart rate, which only makes the feeling of panic worse. Does anyone experience this problem in very cold weather? Windy, raw, damp cold works against me with my condition. And…on the opposite side of the coin, I find that very hot, humid temperatures in the summer also makes me feel that I am vulnerable for a panic attack. Thank God I don’t live in Las Vegas or Arizona during the summer months. I know that people hate cold and hot weather, but normal people do not feel that its a threat to them physically or psychologically. One time in Las Vegas I was walking in the streets and people were laughing and looking calm while the temps were enough to fry an egg on the street! But I felt that if I did not get to an air conditioned room, I would end up in the ER room. I know its crazy. But I and many others have this problem. But I don’t see others like myself in the streets. We are all invicible to one another because we do a good job at hiding our feelings of panic, unless it gets so bad that we can’t mask what we are feeling. When I feel that I am going to die, I sometimes get in a fetal position on the floor and pray to God to stop the agony I am in, and to NOT take my life away because I am never ready to die. But thank God these attacks are not quite as bad since the 80’s and early 90’s. Perhaps it was the Prozac that prevented these terrible events. Its funny, but I have never done this in public, only in my home. I make sure this does not happen in public by taking medicine before I leave the house. Is there any one thing that would set your nervous system out of whack? Does witnessing a crime or accident make you reach for your Xanax? What about riding in a plane? (strangely enough, I have never had a panic attack on a plane, but then again, I was loaded up with Ativan, LOL). Does an emotional crisis set you off? What about an argument with your spouse or friend or co-worker? I know that suppressed anger can cause havoc in some people. What about a terrible news event (such as 9/11?) Thank God I was not in Manhattan that day. I would have died of a heart attack, I am sure of this!!! I find personally that a panic attack should happen to me when it really should happen, and at other times it does not occur when it should occur. I am perplexed at this, and have no answers why one thing would cause me to to feel like I am about to die, and other things don’t. This nervous condition works in strange ways. Not having an attack on a plane but having one on a regular local bus is insane. AT the dentist, I went through all kinds of dental work, and NOT ONE attack. BUT when I went for a quick check up AFTER THE DENTAL WORK WAS DONE, I had a panic attack!!! This makes no sense to me. I should have had the attack before and during the root canal, and tooth extractions, NOT after the work was done. The dentist says to me, "relax Artie, I am only going to clean your teeth and check out the work I did on you", and I told him that I HAD to leave because my heart rate was too high, and I felt like fainting. (he wouldn’t let me leave, and told me to sit in the waiting room and calm down, and in about 10 minutes I started to calm down. I think the secretary at the desk was responsible for calming me down because she was very sympathic and understanding.) To Vanessa: I now take Klonopin .5mg in the morning and .5 in the evening, just like Dennis does (a regular poster in this group). Still afraid to take the Paxil CR 12.5 mg. I only read horror stories on the net about this drug, and if a drug is going to make you sick for a few weeks, then I think the body is telling you that it does NOT want the drug, similar to cancer drugs. The benzo’s agree with me, although the Klonopin did make me feel light-headed and not well at all the other morning upon awakening for an hour or so. Perhaps its because I am not taking the Ativan, and having some sort of withdrawal symptom? Or is it the Klonapin(I take the generic Clonazpam). And the doctor wants me to taper off the Ativan because it seems to have lost its effectiveness. The subway ride was non-eventful, UNLIKE the 2 days prior to that day when I had to get off the train and come back home, ruining my appointment with the psychiatrist. Some days are worse than others it seems, but going down to Manhattan, NY to see a robotic , unemotional man write a prescription with a indifferent look on his face makes me squirm, and hence, the set-up for a panic attack. But surprisingly that day, I took a cab while in Manattan with my friend and saw the Christmas tree at Rockefellow Center. There were throngs of people there from all over the world, and yet, I was fine. But then again, I was loaded up with 8 mgs of Ativan. Without the Ativan, I would not have been able to leave the house, let alone walk at Rockefellow Center, NY. Oh well….. Artie

Response:

Article About Online Pharmacies

admin — Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Go E-Mail the Doctor by Bill Landis October 15 – 21, 2003 We’ve all received spam offering online prescriptions. Usually . . . [snipped]

What is the source?

Response:

The Village Voice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Go E-Mail the Doctor by Bill Landis October 15 – 21, 2003 We’ve all received spam offering online prescriptions. Usually . . . [snipped] What is the source?

Response:

Go E-Mail the Doctor by Bill Landis October 15 – 21, 2003 (illustration: Insu Lee) e’ve all received spam offering online prescriptions. Usually spammers come on with remedies for depressed limp cocks and diet pills for those who want to slim down. Then there are murkier offers of painkillers and tranquilizers. Some of these sites are obvious scams, demanding blank Western Union money orders, envelopes of cash mailed to Mexico, or a phone call to California that’s answered with an unintelligible accent. Some are the real deal. There are online pharmacies-known in Net parlance as "ops"-that FedEx their promise from a garage pharmacy to your door. Lately, these setups have attracted sensationalistic media attention charging quackery or just lowdown dirty drug dealing. Self, where ads revolve around fitness and vitamins, revived the old wheeze "a fool is his own physician." Message boards are full of rumors about stories on Dateline and 60 Minutes in the works. In reality, however, ops serve the needs of Americans who don’t have health insurance, can’t afford regular doctor visits, live in remote areas, or need to evade local prescribing guidelines. Patrons include folks from every walk of American life. Many have children. Not the types to buy drugs illegally with the associated thrills and spills. More likely their insurance doesn’t cover painful conditions like fibromyalgia, or surgery has left them with complications, or they don’t want a psychiatric paper trail regarding their use of tranquilizers or antidepressants, or they have absorbed painkillers into their metabolisms and have no intention of giving them up. Op customers know what medicines they react well to. They have been prescribed them in the past. They cannot afford the money and aggravation of having a doctor refuse them meds they feel comfortable and functional on. The head of a leading op told me anonymously, "We’re dealing with an upper socioeconomic bracket. Less than 1 percent of the patients we call are incoherent, can’t spell their own name or repeat their phone number. I see the doctor have to briefly compose himself after these calls, but they are few and far between." On bluntly titled message boards like findrxmeds.com and drugbuyers.com, you can find businessmen, artists, stewardesses, housewives. J.R., who lives in the Ozarks, has a bulging T-12 disk from an auto crackup but can’t shell out $800 for an MRI. Katie, a flight attendant who lost two friends on 9-11 and is terrified to go back to work, is suffering from anxiety disorder on top of fibromyalgia. She was told by her chiropractor that she could buy pain medicine online. Dee, from suburban New York, once had a sympathetic doctor who was prescribing her 120 mg Percocet a month for her migraines, but then lost his ability to write narcotic Rx’s. Madeline, a native New Yorker, can’t get over 9-11 and has chronic back and leg pain that started with a subsequent apartment fire: "My whole world changed for the worse and with a deadly finality that day. It’ll mark me forever. It was like being fucked in the ass with an elm tree. That pain requires serious coverage. If I didn’t get it from the ops, it’d be a worse scene for me." Financially, mentally, and spiritually, the nation is in a depression. Jobs are hard to find and few provide affordable health coverage. Medicaid is only available to the zero-dollar destitute and useful mainly for emergency room visits, and in this day of welfare reform the few doctors who accept Medicaid frequently refuse to write painkiller prescriptions. New York state requires a triplicate form. So getting prescriptions is difficult for many Americans. A doctor may write for benzodiazepines-the Valium family-once or twice before attempting to shuffle a patient off to a psychiatrist, and this after charging $100 to $250 per visit. Physical conditions that require narcotic analgesics come with the looming threat of the institution known as the pain clinic, the approximate inverse of that American gulag, the rehab. There you can be subjected to a battery of expensive tests, have your brain creepy-crawled by intrusive and dated psychological exams, receive useless treatments like biofeedback, and still not receive the medication you feel is right for you. Many pain clinics simply drain the patient’s insurance money and waste their time. And even sympathetic doctors are in a tricky position, because they’re required to report the Rx’s they write to the DEA. If they write too many, they jeopardize their license. Most reputable ops originate out of Florida, where offbeat businesses sprout like palm trees-tropicalrx.com, erxonline.com, aaamedsworldwide.com, norcoworldwide.com, and buymeds.com, the last now in limbo due to legal challenges. What people seek from ops is controlled-substance painkillers or tranquilizers in the Schedule III-V categories-not Schedule II narcotics like OxyContin, morphine, or Dilaudid. The most popular painkiller is the semisynthetic opioid hydrocodone compounded with acetaminophen, offered with anywhere from 325 to 750 mg of acetaminophen combined with 5, 7.5, or 10 mg of hydrocodone. Hydrocodone, originally invented as an antitussive, has dozens of formulations and generics, including Vicodin, Vicodin ES, Vicodin HP, Lorcet 10, Lortab 10, and Norco 10. In addition to relieving pain, hydrocodone can cause euphoria in sufficient doses, providing an "awake" feeling like that of a heroin-cocaine speedball. It has a longer half-life than many painkillers and is highly addictive. Ops also do a large trade in benzodiazepine tranquilizers such as Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, and Valium, which can be difficult to obtain from a physician on a regular basis-2 mg "sticks" or diskettes of Xanax meet with special hostility from doctors. Other items for sale include muscle relaxants like Soma and Flexeril, potency or hair-loss remedies for the easily embarrassed, and antidepressants like Prozac and related SSRI medications. Pressed on doctors by drug salesmen who emphasize that they’re not controlled substances, they are now shoved down patients’ throats as a cure-all for anything from low-grade depression to post-traumatic stress. Ops can function out of office suites or people’s bedrooms. Two very visible and overpriced Florida ops, buymeds.com and tropicalrx.com, shared the same e-mailing list for potential customers. But customers got sick of Pharmanet, the garage pharmacy used by Buymeds. One never knew if the medicines had been sitting in the Miami sun, were old to begin with, or were exposed to heat in transit. With any op there are the usual e-commerce hassles-nondelivery, shorted quantities, credit card overbillings-but many of these seem to be solved quickly as with any other business. Two of the better ops, norcoworldwide.com and aaamedsworldwide.com, are located near each other in north-central Florida. After an online form listing physical complaints is filled out, a phone consultation is scheduled via e-mail. This basically consists of a few questions, not as coldly put as might appear. "What are you taking now? We offer those in 30, 60, and 90 quantity per month, which would you like? Do you know they’re addictive? You’re not getting them from anyone else, are you?" Click. The consultation costs $120, but medications are reasonably priced: at Norco, 90 tablets of Lortab 10 and Xanax 2 mg are $82 and $77, respectively. With the consultation good for two refills, prescription prices, apart from the overnight shipping ($28), are only slightly steeper than at many chain drugstores. International ops (IOPs) present something of a legal risk, especially on quantities of three months or over, which the DEA can construe as enough for resale. Individuals who have ordered from IOPs have received what’s known as a "love letter" from the DEA reporting that a package has been seized. If the recipient ignores it, likely nothing will happen. But challenge of the seizure notice sets the stage for legal repercussions from the DEA, and nobody wants that. Some IOPs are quite respectable and deliver slowly but surely, for instance www.pharma24.cc, located in Gibraltar. Under cold and cough remedies, Gibraltar features Perduretas Codeina retard 50 mg, which provides instant pain release when bitten into and chewed. Gibraltar also features one of Europe’s most popular pain relievers, Contugesic 60, a time-released codeine derivative, dihydrocodeine. Invented around 1900 for upper respiratory infections and neuralgia, dihydrocodeine is described as a speedier version of codeine, and can offer up to 10 hours of pain relief. The most offbeat of the IOPs is a secretive individual in the United Kingdom known as the Bioman, who makes no pretense of being a doctor or pharmacist. He goes so far as to offer free samples of Peduretas Codeina, Spanish Ambien, Contugesic 60, Aldonto (Spanish time-release tramadol), and an array of antidepressants, actually fronting samples before payment. Then he sends 20 tablets, all in the original blister packs in a discreet envelope. If you like the 20, you send $20 cash and he’ll send 40 more pills. He’ll continue doing it in quantities of 60 for three months at a time. The Bioman knowingly never sends enough pills to be construed as for resale. Surprisingly, there is less overprescribing with ops than with unscrupulous Dr. Feelgoods who give patients enormous prescriptions before either cutting them off abruptly or passing them on to the rehabs they collude with. The limit on ops is usually 90 tablets, and if you use an op that shares the same mail-order pharmacy as your last op before the 25-day legal limit, your order will be bounced. In addition, it becomes cost-prohibitive to go to too many ops. Since ops are cheaper, safer, and easier to use than street-corner dealers, they avoid all Medicaid fraud or drug dealing criminality, and provide a legitimate prescription bottle if a drug test becomes necessary. It’s … read more »

Response:

Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study

admin — Thu, 07 Aug 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

ubject: Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

Growing more brain cells is NOT a good thing if its the wrong ones the AD’s grow. Some SSRI’s users are aware the SSRI;’s grow brain cells, increasing memory, but its visual memory, in the amagdyla, so post SSRI use, they have to live with having visual memories of the most traumatic incidents of their entire life flashing away at them alot, the very memories they spent their lifetime trying to forget! In the frontal lobes…growth of some brain cells, and destruction of others, might result in an imbalance that might be responsible for triggering a very WEIRD from of impulse disorder, CB, or compulsive LIKE, but not exactly, pathological like true internet addicts and pathological gamblers suffer. For all we know, the growth of some cells, making one neurotransmitters availablity higher, in ratio to neurotransmitters, might be triggering amotivational syndreome. Permanent alterations to brain structure, not necessarily a good thing.

Response:

So do brain tumors.

Response:

Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study

Response:

Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study
I must have missed the original posting. If accurate, it would represent a paradigm shift. The conventional thought has been that we are born with as many brain cells as we will ever have. They do, however, get bigger and grow new connections to other cells. There are clinical trials going on now for a new drug to treat alzheimer’s. The drug appears to stimulate growth of new connections and the preliminary data suggest that this may be a drug that might actually reverse the course of the disease rather than simply slow it down. Although it sounds like I’m trying to be funny, I’m not, I’m serious about this. I wonder if it could also help them, but at least those of us who have been depressed for part of our lives. Let’s see what happens. MorphGrrl

You fool yourself if you imagine what you or others say about others is their problem, rather than your problem. You can trash people all you want, but your trashing them isn’t, in itself, a problem for them. Linda Gore 08/06/03 http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

Response:

I must have missed the original posting. If accurate, it would represent a paradigm shift. The conventional thought has been that we are born with as many brain cells as we will ever have.

It was actually discovered about 5 years ago that neurogenesis does occur regularly within the adult human brain. I seem to recall that this discovery made a big rucus. -Mike

Response:

Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Antidepressants may help stimulate the growth of new brain cells, U.S.-based scientists said on Thursday in releasing research that may lead to the development of better drugs to fight depression.

Thanks, Mark. I printed out a copy to take to the EMS barn. Kitten

Response:

Antidepressants Grow New Brain Cells – U.S. Study By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Antidepressants may help stimulate the growth of new brain cells, U.S.-based scientists said on Thursday in releasing research that may lead to the development of better drugs to fight depression. Research on rats shows that two different classes of antidepressants can help brain cells regenerate — and not in areas normally thought of as being involved in depression. "This is an important new insight into how antidepressants work," Dr. Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, said in a statement. The study fits in with others that suggest depression can shrink the hippocampus, a brain region crucial to learning and memory but only recently found to be involved in depression. Major stress and trauma — both depression triggers — can also cause the shrinkage. "We have known that antidepressants influence the birth of neurons in the hippocampus. Now it appears that this effect may be important for the clinical response," Insel said. New antidepressants may be developed to target this process directly, said Rene Hen of Columbia University in New York, who led the study. "The proof in humans is going to come when we extend the work into finding drugs that stimulate neurogenesis. If these drugs have antidepressant effects in humans, this is going to be proof that the process is critical in humans," Hen said in a telephone interview. "There is a push already in the pharmaceutical industry to find such compounds." The new study may also help explain why it can take weeks for antidepressants to give patients relief. "If antidepressants work by stimulating the production of new neurons, there’s a built-in delay," said Hen. The stem cells that give rise to new cells need time to divide, to differentiate into neurons, move to their new homes and link up with other neurons. To make sure that the new brain cells in the hippocampus was the source of the lifted depression, Hen and colleagues at Yale University and in France worked with genetically engineered mice, using X-rays to kill newly growing cells in the hippocampus. These mice did not respond as they normally would to antidepressants. Mice which were given fluoxetine, an antidepressant sold under the brand-name Prozac by Eli Lilly and Co., and were then given X-rays did not resume grooming as would be expected. Mice who received no X-rays and were killed after being dosed for 11 or 28 days with fluoxetine showed significant growth of new brain cells. A drug in a different class, the tricyclic imipramine, also stimulated the growth of neurons, Hen’s team reported in Friday’s issue of the journal Science. "Besides finding drugs that target this process, the other basic research challenge for me is to find out what the function of these new neurons is," Hen said. Experts say that 16 percent of Americans — more than 30 million people — will suffer major depression at some point in their lives. The NIMH says major depression is now the No. 1 leading cause of disability around the world.

Response:

misdiagnosis of schizophrenia

admin — Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Often typically the delusional state of psychosis has a common thread. In paranoid type schizophrenia it is always one of persecution, or the belief that the individual may have, in which people or other creative entities are trying to hurt her/him. and all delusions follow this common theme, the cluster A diagnosis you mention are really sort of components of this phenominon. People are considering a new class of schizophrenia, or drug-induced schizophrenia, but generally a co-occurring illness has to be treated from a chemical dependancy perspective first. at least, thats what they teach you in school. I was actually misdiagnosed for a number of years as a schizo-affective person because I would have states of mania, but often states of mania are not uncommon in paranoid type schizophrenia. Also I have depression which occaisionally goes into remission. Its pretty tricky, but no hyper-manic states were evident during my 60-day stay in the hospital, half of which with no meds. So yes misdiagnosis is common with other schizophreniform illnesses. However, considering personality disorders to be a viable mental illness compared to the severity of schizophrenia is highly inacurate, as personality disorders ought not be considered legally viable. Every person has some range of psychosis when under duress, or when regressing traumatic events as in PTSD. But the factors involved in determining the severity of psychosis often should include the determination a central theme, which is highly indicative of the symptoms present. Any comments about the consideration of personality disorders to be legally viable? as I think it is interesting how many persons are incarcerated and have been diagnosed with personality disorders. I do not necessarily mean Axis II disorders, (personality disorders as a definition) some reconsideration of the Axis II definition may be necessary someday, as the patterns which we’ve identified such as schizotypal personality disorder are often comorbid and may exist in any psychology regardless of the presence of severe and persistant mental illness deemed to be an Axis II illness and do not always present positive symptoms as in Axis I diagnosis. Its interesting the multiaxial assessment system should be used to consider these templates for human personality and behavior such as the cluster A disorders mentioned in the previous post. The question remains whether a person with narcissistic personality disorder shouldbe allowed hospitalization at trial, he would certainly think he did not deserve prison, would he not? But there seems to be a lack of precedent at least in mainstream media about the use of personality disorders as a defense at trial, one day these things may need to be reasessed, you see. As a counter argument radiology has been used before to prove mental illness, I do not believe these cluster A diagnosis are also indicated in positron emissions scans. thoughts?

Response:

Hi. I didn’t understand most of what you have posted here, because it’s full of specialized language. The bulk of posters here are schizophrenics rather than schizophrenia treatment specialists (such as psychiatrists). People with sz vary widely in level of education and articulateness, but I haven’t seen anyone here who is a trained mental health professional except one fellow, who is a psychologist. My sz symptoms have come in two types: (1) in 1991, false memories of being very young and doing terrible things to people; (2) in 1996, silent voices and images in my mind, with a definite persecution or at least exploitation pattern. My problem with these experiences has never been the experiences themselves, but the way they impact my ability to function in everyday life. They both robbed me of all concetration, the ability to make decisions rationally, the ability to hold down a job, and toward the end of the 1996 experience, the ability to eat and use the bathroom in peace. I have been severely depressed only once, and I slept it off, and I have never been manic. Just 12 mg of Perphenazine and later, 4.5 mg of Risperdal each day have done the trick for me, although the Risperdal did cause rabbit mouth that I take 200 AU of Vitamin E for. I believe that schizophrenia has completely unknown causes and modes of operation. No one in the mental health field has a clue as to what causes it or how it works inside the human brain or mind. The medications prescribed for it are loathsome poisons that do the job, for me at least, for completely unknown reasons and at God knows what long-term price. I already have lapses in short-term memory after taking Risperdal for only six years. So frankly, the entire mental health profession should be ashamed of itself for pretending that it knows what it’s doing when it plainly doesn’t. Hannibal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -akbar yudit wrote: >Often typically the delusional state of psychosis has a common thread. In >paranoid type schizophrenia it is always one of persecution, or the belief >that the individual may have, in which people or other creative entities are >trying to hurt her/him. and all delusions follow this common theme, the >cluster A diagnosis you mention are really sort of components of this >phenominon. >People are considering a new class of schizophrenia, or drug-induced >schizophrenia, but generally a co-occurring illness has to be treated from a >chemical dependancy perspective first. >at least, thats what they teach you in school. >I was actually misdiagnosed for a number of years as a schizo-affective >person because I would have states of mania, but often states of mania are >not uncommon in paranoid type schizophrenia. Also I have depression which >occaisionally goes into remission. Its pretty tricky, but no hyper-manic >states were evident during my 60-day stay in the hospital, half of which >with no meds. So yes misdiagnosis is common with other schizophreniform >illnesses. >However, considering personality disorders to be a viable mental illness >compared to the severity of schizophrenia is highly inacurate, as >personality disorders ought not be considered legally viable. >Every person has some range of psychosis when under duress, or when >regressing traumatic events as in PTSD. But the factors involved in >determining the severity of psychosis often should include the determination >a central theme, which is highly indicative of the symptoms present. >Any comments about the consideration of personality disorders to be legally >viable? as I think it is interesting how many persons are incarcerated and >have been diagnosed with personality disorders. >I do not necessarily mean Axis II disorders, (personality disorders as a >definition) some reconsideration of the Axis II definition may be necessary >someday, as the patterns which we’ve identified such as schizotypal >personality disorder are often comorbid and may exist in any psychology >regardless of the presence of severe and persistant mental illness deemed to >be an Axis II illness and do not always present positive symptoms as in Axis >I diagnosis. Its interesting the multiaxial assessment system should be used >to consider these templates for human personality and behavior such as the >cluster A disorders mentioned in the previous post. The question remains >whether a person with narcissistic personality disorder shouldbe allowed >hospitalization at trial, he would certainly think he did not deserve >prison, would he not? But there seems to be a lack of precedent at least in >mainstream media about the use of personality disorders as a defense at >trial, one day these things may need to be reasessed, you see. >As a counter argument radiology has been used before to prove mental >illness, I do not believe these cluster A diagnosis are also indicated in >positron emissions scans. thoughts?

Response:

time for a new sleep study?

admin — Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

If you are having problems you may have another sleep disorder that hasn’t been diagnosed/addressed. I have required 4 sleep studies over the years. Now I am in the process of trying to prove that my hypersomnia is not idiopathic but post-traumatic, as the result of an infection 13 years ago.

Response:

How often do people go back for sleep studies? I am 28 and have had sleep OSA for 15 years. its been about 6-7 years since my last study. I have not been feeling +refreshed" and finding it very hard to wake up in the mornings.

Response:

The Somnolent Phantom wrote: > X-No-Archive: yes > Chuck Lloyd wrote: >>How often do people go back for sleep studies? I am 28 and have had sleep >>OSA for 15 years. its been about 6-7 years since my last study. I have not >>been feeling +refreshed" and finding it very hard to wake up in the >>mornings. > It is definitely time for you to get a new PSG.

I’ll second that!!!!!

Response:

Help with life

admin — Sat, 03 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi I’ve been out of work for almost 2 years – as before posts you see – eye operation dad dieing and now this. Thing is I don’t see any company taking me on due to the big gap in my CV. They would use the argument that my skills are not up to date etc. as I’ve seen happen in friends. I’ve got a big mortgage to pay, and I can see the bank taking the house off me if I cannot pay this. Any thoughts? Anth

Response:

Hi I’ve been out of work for almost 2 years – as before posts you see – eye operation dad dieing and now this. Thing is I don’t see any company taking me on due to the big gap in my CV. They would use the argument that my skills are not up to date etc. as I’ve seen happen in friends. I’ve got a big mortgage to pay, and I can see the bank taking the house off me if I cannot pay this. Any thoughts?

Yes, that’s a scary one, isn’t it? Returning to work. I haven’t worked since November, 2002, but will be returning on Monday, albeit to a different job. The one I’d held previously was very stressful, long hours, and I don’t want to do it any more. My manager has arranged for me to do project work, and has told me I can work at home, and work the hours that suit me best while I’m in and out of treatment. I’m very lucky. (also, employers in BC are required to accommodate cancer patients while they’re in treatment, but my boss has gone above and beyond). One of the things I’d recommend is incorporating the skills required to care for your mom into your CV, and show how they’re applicable in the work force. This is something that women returning to work frequently do- show how their skills as a home-maker translate into skills that employers want. If you want some ideas on specific skills, e-mail me, and we can work on it. Michele

Response:

Hi I’ve been out of work for almost 2 years – as before posts you see – eye operation dad dieing and now this. Thing is I don’t see any company taking me on due to the big gap in my CV. They would use the argument that my skills are not up to date etc. as I’ve seen happen in friends. I’ve got a big mortgage to pay, and I can see the bank taking the house off me if I cannot pay this. Any thoughts? Anth

Hi Anth, First, job related. 1) Set your goals and identify the type of job and employers you’d want to work for. Research them so you can speak intelligently to them about their company during an interview or on paper. (cover and thank you letter, after an interview) 2) Compile a Personal Inventory (make a list of your qualifications, skills, experiences, and personal qualities to determine what you have to offer an employer right now. Write everything you can think of down. Then copies of all certificates, diplomas, and degrees you’ve earned, scholarships, awards, courses, workshops and conferences you’ve attended, letters of recommendation, volunteer positions, list of organizations you belong to, lisrt of employers, names of supervisors, dates of employment, job descriptions, dates of promotions, and detailled salary records. Also list the less tangible attributes: imagine that your best friend is describing you to someone you haven’t met: qualities and examples. 3) Information Interviews (appointments with potential employers for the express purpose of gathering data). They help to :learn about job opportunities that exist in your field, learn about compainies and their criteria for hiring, demonstrate "employee potential", shows initiative, enthusiasm for your field and their company, good communication skills , have some prepared questions, half-an hour at the most, ask them what they like about working for the company. It’s a way to get your name out there and also possibly get other ideas for other companies. Sometimes they have brochures in their waiting rooms, and names of other companies they collaborate with. Take notes. 4) job marketing campaign: direct mail, newspaper advertisements, door-door, placement office, tell everyone you speak to that you are looking for a job in case anyone happens ot know of one, keep records of who you contacted, when etc. Writing a resume (CV): There are 3 kinds: Chronological Format Functional Resume (CV) Format Combination Format The chronological format would show a 2-year gap, but very explainable with your eye surgery, you dad’s death and now caring for your mother, but at a glance, if you prefer the person scanning CV’s not to see the gap, the functional might be the better one (or the combination one). The functional is organized according to skills and qualifications and major accomplishments. What you have to offer the employer. (rather than the focus being on the length of service). This one, depending on which company you are applying to, you move qualifications up to the top of importance. So you make a master with the whole list, and then for each application (to each company), put the qualifications and skills that you think they’d most be interested in. Sometimes the adverts tell you more about that. There are books at the library to help you with this. The one I have is called Business Communication (Strategies and Skills), but it’s a Canadian Book. There are sample resumes, cover letters and thank you letters. The above is just a quick summary of what you’ll need to get started. Perhaps a bit later, you can find your way to an evening course, of interest. It also looks good on a CV. J

Response:

Hi I’ve been out of work for almost 2 years – as before posts you see – eye operation dad dieing and now this. Thing is I don’t see any company taking me on due to the big gap in my CV. They would use the argument that my skills are not up to date etc. as I’ve seen happen in friends. I’ve got a big mortgage to pay, and I can see the bank taking the house off me if I cannot pay this. Any thoughts? Anth

Life can be devastating at times, and you are really getting pounded. I know about ten people who have committed suicide in the past few years. That is =not= the answer……. All I can advise you to do is take one thing at a time. Right now, your Mam needs you most. When she is gone, then worry about the house and job. Make what payments you can and ask the bank for more time. You may find an understanding bloke who’ll see things your way…. CAT

Response:

we in Holland can just stay sick and get full pay for 3 years. Afteer that (for me May 6th) invalid pension of 70%. You get that when you cannot come to work and stay there for 4 hours independently of a helper. (radiation gave me a bad case of emphesyma on top of asthma and fibromyalgia. No tumors left but still yje side effects of Iressa might kill me, bur at least I can do it luxurioous
No tumors left? e-mail me if you prefer (I e-mailed you as you requested, but never heard back). J

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I’ve been out of work for almost 2 years – as before posts you see – eye operation dad dieing and now this. Thing is I don’t see any company taking me on due to the big gap in my CV. They would use the argument that my skills are not up to date etc. as I’ve seen happen in friends. I’ve got a big mortgage to pay, and I can see the bank taking the house off me if I cannot pay this. Any thoughts? Yes, that’s a scary one, isn’t it? Returning to work. I haven’t worked since November, 2002, but will be returning on Monday, albeit to a different job. The one I’d held previously was very stressful, long hours, and I don’t want to do it any more. My manager has arranged for me to do project work, and has told me I can work at home, and work the hours that suit me best while I’m in and out of treatment. I’m very lucky. (also, employers in BC are required to accommodate cancer patients while they’re in treatment, but my boss has gone above and beyond). One of the things I’d recommend is incorporating the skills required to care for your mom into your CV, and show how they’re applicable in the work force. This is something that women returning to work frequently do- show how their skills as a home-maker translate into skills that employers want. If you want some ideas on specific skills, e-mail me, and we can work on it. Michele

we in Holland can just stay sick and get full pay for 3 years. Afteer that (for me May 6th) invalid pension of 70%. You get that when you cannot come to work and stay there for 4 hours independently of a helper. (radiation gave me a bad case of emphesyma on top of asthma and fibromyalgia. No tumors left but still yje side effects of Iressa might kill me, bur at least I can do it luxurioous

Response:

I’ve been out of work for almost 2 years – as before posts you see – eye operation dad dieing and now this. Thing is I don’t see any company taking me on due to the big gap in my CV. They would use the argument that my skills are not up to date etc. as I’ve seen happen in friends. I’ve got a big mortgage to pay, and I can see the bank taking the house off me if I cannot pay this. Any thoughts?

Hi Anth, If both you and your mother were contributing to the mortgage, perhaps you’ll have to downsize? Renegotiate the mortgage? Make a budget of your income and expenses. You might be able to get some temporary assistance (Disability Living Allowance ) http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/default.asp If a psychologist or psychiatrist were to interview you and see how much stress you are and have been under – for depression and post-traumatic stress. This would/could give you the time to recover and start your job search, sort out how you’ll manage financially and/or what changes are required. http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/handbook/severedepressivedisorder.asp v) Another form of depression is usually associated with an obvious cause (eg. bereavement, redundancy, failed marriage etc) and this form is usually a much milder illness. It is referred to as mild depressive disorder or reactive depression or neurotic depression Usually this is a mild depressive disorder but in some people with reactive depression individual responses to major adverse life events can precipitate more severe forms of depressive illness. [See paragraphs 19.7.7]. Physical symptoms (eg poor appetite, weight loss, constipation, loss of sex drive) occur to a varying extent in mild depressive disorder, but are commonly much less severe than in people with severe depressive disorder, and care and mobility needs are not usually present. The other idea that comes to mind, is if UK has a retraining program. Here they’re out of the Employment Centre, one has to go and make inquiries and have an idea what type of retraining you’d want. I don’t know if this is the correct one, it has a Help with Training option http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/cms.asp?Page=/Home/Customers There may also be Welfare in UK (don’t know), just temporary until you get steadier on what you can do and will do. HTH J

Response: