Question:
Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
Response:
I can’t speak for everyone, but in my case I tend to think that most of us are ‘pre-disposed’ to over anxious reactions. My current situation arose from a traumatic incident and the panic attacks followed from there. Most of my family is high stress/anxiety type personalities, but have been through some trauma’s and made it out just fine. So I think I agree that it isn’t known how much of it is situational or chemical, but the chemical end makes sense to me since medication has successfully gotten me this far. I don’t know that I can ever "beat" this, but if I can control it enough to return to my life I will be satisfiied with that. Robin/CItolu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
Response:
Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
Hi Elise, I started out thinking I was fixated in some kind of Freudian stage with intrapsychic conflicts, because when my PD started about thirty years ago, that’s what they thought were the causes. But I’ve come full swing in the other direction since then. I think we are born with a genetic tendency to over-react to stress. We get PAs instead of the normal anxiety everyone else feels. I don’t know to what degree, if any, childhood experiences play a role in PD. Take care, Chip Before you buy.
Response:
Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
The truth is nobody knows. Most likely there are different causes, one being genetical and one being situational. For instance a genetic predisposition can be manifest if *triggered* by some stressy event or period. OTOH, sometimes PD develops without any identifiable trigger. I also believe that the term *Panic Disorder* will prove to be an *umbrella* for different kinds of disorders with different characteristics and (an emphasis on) different neurotransmitters/hormones involved. Moreover, I believe that what is often called a *chemical imbalance* (without anyone knowing exactly what that means 
) can be brought about by psychological as well as biological causes and conditions. In the same way treatment will be most succesful in many cases when focusing on both psychological and biological remedies or ways to manage the disorder. I think the next ten years will make for very exciting breakthroughs in PD-research with much better and more fine-tuned diagnostic and treatment possibilities. I guess the next generation may profit from that. Philip
Response:
Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
Hi, I was writing a long reply to jackie about her family outing reply, and I got booted ( I’m so *beeping* mad!). Part of what I was writing about in the reply to her reply has to do with this topic, so if it’s ok, I’m going to reply in this post. Jackie mentioned not feeling safe or listened to as a child. I learned in psy class, something to the effect that, when children feel safe and secure, they are more likely to be adventurous and take more risks. I’ve had friends, whose families were either very distant or non-existant, and they were somewhat anxiety ridden themselves. I was wondering, if jackie felt that not feeling safe as a child, might have triggered or further agrivated her anxieties? God, I wish I had not been booted…There was so much I said in that reply…On the topic of vacations, which will lead to the current topic, I was dragged all over hell and back as a child as well. I would have prefered, for the most part, to just stay at home with my mom and play or something. It became an uneasy feeling after a while to wake up and find the livingroom littered with suitcases. I lost my family in a car accident on the way to a camping trip up north (michigan) and have never felt real secure after that. A few dr’s have said that, that might have a lot to do with my anxieties. I think that maybe aa/pa’s are a combination of both nature and nurture. There is strong evidence of chemical imbalances. On the other hand, the developmental years are so fragile… My friend’s uncle is a vietman vet who has serious aa/pa symptoms and chooses to "self-medicate". So I can see there being post-traumatic stress playing a role in pd cases as well. Jackie, what you said about spending quality time, teaching your kids, and giving them a lot of love is awesome, and I agree whole heartdly(sp?) with what you said! Kids don’t always need to be taken on *exciting* vacations, they just need to be loved and understood. Your post made a whole lot of sense to me, and made me feel good 
I’m so happy you went to your two daughters tea and concert, that’s awesome! I’ll stop this post before it gets to outrageously long. My partner always complains that I don’t talk, go figure… BTW, I don’t know what I’d do if I saw some yahoo golfing in my family’s cemetary lol Take care, angie
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, Di, I feel for you. about 4 years ago I had a total hysterectomy – and for 6 months following it I could not be on any estrogen supplement (needed to get rid of the endimetreosis (sp?) first). So many of the menopausal symptoms are similar to panic attacks and anxiety. I don’t know how my poor husband survived that along with the 90 degree days and the humidity. Let me know about your gyn appt. Congratualtions – on finding a good therapist. Isn’t it odd how "you know" from the first appt if you are going to like a therapist or not! I hope the CBT is beneficial for you. I am also going to see a new doc but cannot get in until July…I am also going to talk to himabout CBT, so I am really interested to hear how you are doing and what benefits you achieve. chat later. smiles, elise
Hi Elise! I’m glad you’re going to a new doc too. Too bad you have to wait until July, but I’m sure it’ll work out, or maybe they’ll get a cancellation and call you. You poor thing! A hysterectomy! I’m glad you survived everything. I sure will let you know how it works out with the CBT. I tried it for a little while about 4 or 5 yrs. I didn’t work for me because I was sooo whacked out from the panic and anxiety. I just didn’t think it would work for me. I hope this time it works! Thanks a lot! {{{{Elise}}}} Di
Response:
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Everyone, elise said… I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? I feel it is a combination of both. I knew my life was good but I couldn’t enjoy it . I felt so anxious and there was this exhausting, energy stealing, depressing feeling that I described as a black cloud that would come out of nowhere every so often. After a lot of psychotherapy and feeling like I should be able to enjoy life, I started on a new medication and it felt like the cloud slowly faded. When I went off the medication, it came back worse than before. I still suffer but that horrible darkness is not there anymore. Trey
Hi Trey! Sorry, but I have a terrible memory. What med were you on and which one now, if any? I’m glad the darkness is gone!! Di
Response:
Hello Everyone, Di asked… Hi Trey! Sorry, but I have a terrible memory. What med were you on and which one now, if any? I’m glad the darkness is gone!!
Thanks. I have tried 10 different medications over the past 7 years. Before this most recent time I was being treated mainly for the anxiety. In the past few years the depression started getting worse. Now I am taking Luvox (150mg a day) and because it causes insomnia for me, I am taking trazodone (50mg) right before bed. It was about 1 1/2 weeks with Luvox that I began to feel the depression lifting. Trey
Response:
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Everyone, Di asked… Hi Trey! Sorry, but I have a terrible memory. What med were you on and which one now, if any? I’m glad the darkness is gone!! Thanks. I have tried 10 different medications over the past 7 years. Before this most recent time I was being treated mainly for the anxiety. In the past few years the depression started getting worse. Now I am taking Luvox (150mg a day) and because it causes insomnia for me, I am taking trazodone (50mg) right before bed. It was about 1 1/2 weeks with Luvox that I began to feel the depression lifting. Trey
Trey! I’m really glad the depression lifted for you! I wish mine would. I can’t raise the Desipramine, can’t stand the side effects, and I’m feeling more and more depressed and panicky. I’ll probably shut down early tonight ’cause all I’m doing is ranting and venting. It’s no good! I know I can do that here, but I think I’ve done it in enough posts already. Please take care and thanks! Di
Response:
I lost my family in a car accident on the way to a camping trip up north (michigan) and have never felt real secure after that.
Angie I can`t imagine the pain you went through after suffering a loss like that. It was hard when my dad passed away, but to lose a whole family….. A few dr’s have said that, that might have a lot to do with my anxieties. I think that maybe aa/pa’s are a combination of both nature and nurture.
I think this applies to me also. There is strong evidence of chemical imbalances. On the other hand, the developmental years are so fragile… My friend’s uncle is a vietman vet who has serious aa/pa symptoms and chooses to "self-medicate". So I can see there being post-traumatic stress playing a role in pd cases as well. Jackie, what you said about spending quality time, teaching your kids, and giving them a lot of love is awesome, and I agree whole heartdly(sp?) with what you said! Kids don’t always need to be taken on *exciting* vacations, they just need to be loved and understood. Your post made a whole lot of sense to me, and made me feel good
I am glad that it made you feel good You can be a great parent with what you got. The best things that you can give your children are not ones you buy, they are the ones from your heart. I’m so happy you went to your two daughters tea and concert, that’s awesome!
I am too Pushing myself…… even if it means some anxiety is much easier than dealing with the guilt when I don`t try to do something. My reward is my childrens happiness over the fact that I was there to see them. BTW, I don’t know what I’d do if I saw some yahoo golfing in my family’s cemetary lol
I was annoyed at first, but when I really thought about it, it would have been something my dad would have laughed about. It was one of the strangest things I have witnessed. Take care. Jackie
Response:
Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise Hello Elise….My current psych. doctor treats it as a chemical imbalance triggered by any prolong stress/ I’ve had it off and on for nearly 50 years. When my chemicals are working properly through proper med taking, everything works right. Without meds, I’m a basket case even though I’m a pretty intelligent woman. Nothing I say or think or do has worked for me without medication no matter how hard I tried. I think in the years ahead, especially with the ability to see into the brain with MRI’s, there will come a time where they will be able to directly pinpoint the problem and will have a specific med to treat it. I did see a documentary where an MRI showed the brain was different for people who had panic attacks. The question that remains unanswered yet is what caused the change in the brain? Was it always there or did something happen to cause the change? Some day I believe they will find the answer because anxiety and/or panic attacks are becoming almost epidemic in our society today. Just my thoughts……love, Rita
Response:
Hello Everyone, elise said… I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this?
I feel it is a combination of both. I knew my life was good but I couldn’t enjoy it . I felt so anxious and there was this exhausting, energy stealing, depressing feeling that I described as a black cloud that would come out of nowhere every so often. After a lot of psychotherapy and feeling like I should be able to enjoy life, I started on a new medication and it felt like the cloud slowly faded. When I went off the medication, it came back worse than before. I still suffer but that horrible darkness is not there anymore. Trey
Response:
Philip, You are so up to date on this disorder, you’ll probably be the first one to know the name of the "magic pill" (don’t forget about your friends at ASAP). You’re right about the progress they should be making in the next ten years. Hopefully, someone genius will cut that time down and put an end of "our living hell". smiles, elise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise The truth is nobody knows. Most likely there are different causes, one being genetical and one being situational. For instance a genetic predisposition can be manifest if *triggered* by some stressy event or period. OTOH, sometimes PD develops without any identifiable trigger. I also believe that the term *Panic Disorder* will prove to be an *umbrella* for different kinds of disorders with different characteristics and (an emphasis on) different neurotransmitters/hormones involved. Moreover, I believe that what is often called a *chemical imbalance* (without anyone knowing exactly what that means ) can be brought about by psychological as well as biological causes and conditions. In the same way treatment will be most succesful in many cases when focusing on both psychological and biological remedies or ways to manage the disorder. I think the next ten years will make for very exciting breakthroughs in PD-research with much better and more fine-tuned diagnostic and treatment possibilities. I guess the next generation may profit from that. Philip
Response:
Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
Hi Elise! I’m not sure where mine comes from except for the PSTD I have. A lot of people in my family have depression or anxiety or some type of phobia. I thought for a long time it might be a chemical imbalance, but no doctor has told me that. Right now I think some of the depression I get is perimenopause. Hope to find that out soon as tomorrow is my GYN appt.! I won’t know right away, but hopefully, this will be a beginning. Di
Response:
You’re right, Rita. Seems like panic disorders are at an epidemic level…makes one wonder? elise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise Hello Elise….My current psych. doctor treats it as a chemical imbalance triggered by any prolong stress/ I’ve had it off and on for nearly 50 years. When my chemicals are working properly through proper med taking, everything works right. Without meds, I’m a basket case even though I’m a pretty intelligent woman. Nothing I say or think or do has worked for me without medication no matter how hard I tried. I think in the years ahead, especially with the ability to see into the brain with MRI’s, there will come a time where they will be able to directly pinpoint the problem and will have a specific med to treat it. I did see a documentary where an MRI showed the brain was different for people who had panic attacks. The question that remains unanswered yet is what caused the change in the brain? Was it always there or did something happen to cause the change? Some day I believe they will find the answer because anxiety and/or panic attacks are becoming almost epidemic in our society today. Just my thoughts……love, Rita
Response:
Oh, Di, I feel for you. about 4 years ago I had a total hysterectomy – and for 6 months following it I could not be on any estrogen supplement (needed to get rid of the endimetreosis (sp?) first). So many of the menopausal symptoms are similar to panic attacks and anxiety. I don’t know how my poor husband survived that along with the 90 degree days and the humidity. Let me know about your gyn appt. Congratualtions – on finding a good therapist. Isn’t it odd how "you know" from the first appt if you are going to like a therapist or not! I hope the CBT is beneficial for you. I am also going to see a new doc but cannot get in until July…I am also going to talk to himabout CBT, so I am really interested to hear how you are doing and what benefits you achieve. chat later. smiles, elise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise Hi Elise! I’m not sure where mine comes from except for the PSTD I have. A lot of people in my family have depression or anxiety or some type of phobia. I thought for a long time it might be a chemical imbalance, but no doctor has told me that. Right now I think some of the depression I get is perimenopause. Hope to find that out soon as tomorrow is my GYN appt.! I won’t know right away, but hopefully, this will be a beginning. Di
Response:
Elise…Hi…my vote goes for"chemical", although I’m sure a certain amount of genetics and psychology can also be involved. From what I understand…stress, anxiety, lack of sleep, excitability and insufficient nutrition all contribute to the depletion of the brain’s neurotransmitters. These neurotransmitters are "little messengers" & are responsible for relaying everything we say, think, FEEL and do. When they become depleted, various symptoms can be triggered. When proper levels are restored the symptoms subside dramatically. My husband had been hospitalized, had been on various meds and was still unable to "cope" with his PAD…I was told to give him several supplements right along with his regular medication, which I did. Much to our delight he responded extremely well. Today he feels as if he has his life back again. The same products have also helped our ADHD/behavior problem son and our daughter with ADD and Tourette syndrome. If you’d like to read their "story" you can find it at http://www/oe-pages.com/FAMILY/Children1/cherit3/ The foods we eat today are so over processed&over refined that they no longer provide some of the essential nutrients needed.No wonder so many of these once "rare" disorders are now on the rise! Blessings! CG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone, I have been at ASAP for a while now and realize that some people seem to feel that our panic disorder is chemical and others seem to go back to the theory of "incidents that happened in our childhood"? I have always felt that it is something chemical – seems like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate. What are your thoughts on this? smiles, elise
Response:
like my brain always knows the right thing to do in a situation but my body won’t cooperate
emotions often don’t tell the truth so one can intellectualy know something but "feel" something totaly oppositional. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The truth is nobody knows. Most likely there are different causes, one being genetical and one being situational. For instance a genetic predisposition can be manifest if *triggered* by some stressy event or period. OTOH, sometimes PD develops without any identifiable trigger. I also believe that the term *Panic Disorder* will prove to be an *umbrella* for different kinds of disorders with different characteristics and (an emphasis on) different neurotransmitters/hormones involved. Moreover, I believe that what is often called a *chemical imbalance* (without anyone knowing exactly what that means ) can be brought about by psychological as well as biological causes and conditions. In the same way treatment will be most succesful in many cases when focusing on both psychological and biological remedies or ways to manage the disorder. I think the next ten years will make for very exciting breakthroughs in PD-research with much better and more fine-tuned diagnostic and treatment possibilities. I guess the next generation may profit from that. Philip
ditto-there is no one cause or "right " answer it is a multidimensional problem with multidimensional causations neither being exclusively biological or psychological developmental or environmental-There certainly seems to be a strong genetic proclivity and biophysiological sensitivity but often it is percipitated by various life events either at one or many stages of development. The key to utililizing a therapeutic paradigm is to attack the symptoms and ellucidate as much as the cause or causes as possible and chip away at them until a recovery or sorts has been acheived. It would sort of be like asking is unhappyness biological or psychological-and at what point is unhappyness a pathology one can say it becomes a pathology when it is pervasive and becomes a depression but I have known outwardly happy folks who were significantly depressed. I use the term amalgam to understand the complexities and tiered systems involved in understanding all the perameters involved LM
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