Question:
TANYA FOR PRESIDENT!! BAM!!
AMEN ! but still… NO FREE LUNCH ! (you crack me up.) ~t
Response:
Bob has been very kind to me, and I have tried to stay in touch. My own battle with the depression has kept me out of touch with many in the past couple of months. But I know that he has been very hurt by this situation, and I feel for him. For the record, I, too, disagreed with Bob’s banishment, and I did write to the moderators to offer *other* solutions.
THAT, in itself, Mike… speaks volumes. I have been a moderator of another group… and I know that it is a difficult position at times. I do, however, as *many* here, remember what ASAP was like 8 or 10 years ago… when some poor soul would come here seeking solace and support, and find that he/she had jumped into a pit of vipers! It was horrific. You might have been a match for them, Tanya…. just as Elliott and Philip were! I was not… and I fled the group back then. I’ve never been a scrapper… and perhaps that makes me less of a person in the eyes of some.
as i could say "bein’ a scrapper makes me less of a person in the eyes of some" we are all different, with different personalities, as well as different and many facets to our personalities. i, personally, don’t measure ‘more or less’ as it applies to humanity. i DO know, Mike… that you are on Bob’s list of "defining people" in his life. He speaks of you frequently. hell, i almost fell in love with ya muhself, listenin’ ta Bob ! (don’t get scared, i’m actually all talk.) i’m quite shy in person, when it comes down to it. (yer safe.) You, as well as other select people are vital to him. ~tomorrow’s another day. i don’t choose to predict the future, those that do are always wrong. i simply have high hopes. But once a friend, I’m hard to shake…
i hear tell… that with that statement… you ain’t just whistlin’ dixie. xoxoxoxoxo, Mike ! ~tanya
Response:
speaking of which, i forgot to respond to that email….i’ll respond to it tomorrow though b/c i have GOT to get some sleep. i’ve been up with my 2 oldest kids vomiting all over their rooms, everybody’s getting the flu.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TANYA FOR PRESIDENT!! BAM!! AMEN ! but still… NO FREE LUNCH ! (you crack me up.) ~t
Response:
YIKES!! STOP! YOU’RE KILLIN’ ME!!!! I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. — Groucho Marx
oh, i thought groucho said "well, that’s tha silliest thang’ah evah hoid." and w.c. fields said that thang about children’n dogs. boys never liked me for my intellectual prowess. come ta think uv it… i don’t think they ever liked me too much period. (well, maybe in small doses.) You want W.C.?
white choklit?????? Marry an outdoors woman. Then if you throw her out into the yard for the night, she can still survive.
hell, she might be so happy there she don’t come back… THEN let’s see who’d tha survivor of tha fittest when yer washin’ yer own undies. Whew! I feel better now…..
than when? ~tanya (i’ll wash yer undies. ya got’ah stand real still tho.)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close relationship with my friend, lengthy discussions and knowledge of what dreams may come. This is the truth as I know it and
… read more »
Response:
I hope Bob will come and post here again. I truly hope he will, maybe you can help him here? I will try too. Bob is a very nice and sensitive man and the ASAPM rejection was traumatic for him.
That has been my hope, as well. Bob has been very kind to me, and I have tried to stay in touch. My own battle with the depression has kept me out of touch with many in the past couple of months. But I know that he has been very hurt by this situation, and I feel for him. For the record, I, too, disagreed with Bob’s banishment, and I did write to the moderators to offer *other* solutions. I have been a moderator of another group… and I know that it is a difficult position at times. I do, however, as *many* here, remember what ASAP was like 8 or 10 years ago… when some poor soul would come here seeking solace and support, and find that he/she had jumped into a pit of vipers! It was horrific. You might have been a match for them, Tanya…. just as Elliott and Philip were! I was not… and I fled the group back then. I’ve never been a scrapper… and perhaps that makes me less of a person in the eyes of some. But once a friend, I’m hard to shake… Peace to all… MikeH
Response:
Your post is too long for me to reply to in its entirety
(you sayin’ i got’ah big mouth?) HAHAHAHAHHA ! ok… i couldn’t resist ! so I’ll pick a few sentences. I know your friend and I am in touch with him. It is my opinion that the ASAPM moderators made an error by banning him. That’s no secret: I told him, I told them and I suggested a different solution which would nave kept him aboard. The moderators decided otherwise and as much as I disagree with their decision I could understand their reasons. Things are rarely black or white in this world. Sometimes one wishes they were, it would be a lot easier.
i’m aware of your interaction, Philip. Bob felt dismissed by your "move on" attitude (condensed) and i tried desperately to encourage him to change his focus. Bob is not in a good place right now, and i do NOT know the content of your interaction and i assured him your intentions were nothing but good. his perception/projection of your ‘lack of sympathy’ is indicative of his state of mind right now. Bob DOES need a blast of reality that i am positive he will come to terms with all this as the obsession with this experience comes to fruition or he makes a decision to "change his focus". (i know i overuse that line). i am in no way taking your encouragement for him to "see" a different way of looking at things as a put-down. i do the same with him. He is in his own head right now, and is wondering haplessly who his friends are. Bob gets pissed and irritated at me, as well. i’m skrait up with him, as well. i never shoot tha messenger, nor the intent, or i’d be shootin’ muh own self. Support is what’s important to him now. as one that shares the OCD disorder with Bob, i’m empathetic to his hanging on to and dissecting everything, as he ‘feels’ alone, kinda like a stranger in a once familiar land. I hoped Bob would come and post here which he did most sparingly and then he disappeared again.
the memories of the once cohesive friendships he felt is stopping him from bustin’ out’ah that brick wall. i DO think the show of support that has been lavished on the topic of improper moderation will bring him back to his old self. Bob has nothing but desire to please and regain acceptence. me? i’d go eat 18 chili dogs’n a deep-fried cornish hen’n 18 key lime cheesecakes and say FUCKAHBUNCHAH Y’ALL ! but i ain’t Bob. he truly personifies the quote from W. C. Fields … ‘i would never wanna be a member of a club that would have me as a member.’ (or sumthin’ like that… in reverse.) <I also recommended a *yahoogroup* to him where he would meet very friendly and supportive people but, maybe because of lack of trust ?), he did join but didn’t participate. Maybe he will. There is more than one place on the Internet where one can get support for panic/anxiety and make friends as well.
i think that’s kinda like sayin’ "yer dog got run over, get another dog" in Bob’s mind. I’m pretending to know what he’s thinking, i really don’t, entirely, i’m givin’ my educated guess. (oh god… that could be DANGEROUS !) familiarity is his comfort zone, new friends are way down tha road for him, he seeks redemption and acceptence of those which were his closest confindantes. Philip? Bob truly meant no harm. i’ve spoken with him at length, even the moderators said in their email to him that they knew it wasn’t his intention to hurt anyone, but intentions don’t matter. there is something way wrong with this picture. i truly hope, as you do, that Bob can overcome the actions of a ‘team’ that dictated his life via his own perception and find comfort within himself in an unmoderated forum where he can SAY’T LOUD’N SAY’T PROUD ! …and strike up his band again, as his band is more than worthy of being heard. he WILL get back to business as usual. i have my own faith that he will. it’s people like you that recharge his batteries. i’ve been in similar positions before. i needed (and still need sometimes) positive strokes from others. it’s all about insecurity. This thread will hopefully encourage him, the whole world is NOT against him. OCD sometimes works in mysterious ways, as do many of his disorders i have no understanding of. my wish for Bob coincides with yours. he feel he had/has no voice, i assured him he has one here and not to ignore this arena. This doesn’t mean that his problems at ASAPM weren’t traumatic, I know they were and I regret it. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. You are quite right that it was idiotic to take 12 days to reach a decision. However, it happened and it can’t be undone.
it CAN create a forum of prevention, though. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. This is just an assumption. How do you know what the moderators expected?
i don’t "KNOW"… i merely feel certain. I surely don’t. But all that is water under the bridge now. On the upside the friends Bob made at ASAPM (such as Vashti and Mike who both post here as well) are stil in touch with him as far as I know.
i won’t go there 
Anyway, you are much to be commended for standing up for a friend, you are a good person of great integrity and I have grown quite fond of you.
…as i have of you, Philip. I will tell you something that I don’t say to people every day. Because of my background I tend to divide people into two groups: those that would hide me from Da Germans if it were WWII and those who wouldn’t. (I can’t help myself and it’s not a big deal for me because I’ll quite happily socialize and enteretain valuable and profound friendships with people I wouldn’t trust when push would come to shove.) The group of people one feels one can trust with one’s life is infintely smaller than the other one but I have you chalked down for the small group (on the basis of my never failing female intuition of course 
. I hope Bob will come and post here again. I truly hope he will, maybe you can help him here? I will try too.
absotootly ! Bob is a very nice and sensitive man and the ASAPM rejection was traumatic for him.
THIS is what will take Bob out of the despair he’s feeling and hopefully move forward and use this experience as a lesson in "fuggem." nothing is permanent. there are no exceptions. i hope this experience to be a personal growth process for Bob, as it has been for me. i take nothing lightly when it comes to other’s pain, tho i may not express it properly, accordin’ to other’s judgment of "proper". thank you, Philip. ~tanya
Response:
TANYA FOR PRESIDENT!! BAM!!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close
… read more »
Response:
Damn gal, wish I could express myself like you do. Guess some are good at one thing and some good at others, but I wish I could carve stone as well as you write. – Kinder
Response:
thank you, Kinder ! i wish i could carve stone. maybe i could be tha capitalist i dream of ! LOL … please send me pics of your carvings, i so get off on anything artistic. (i think that’s why i’m in tha tattoo business, even though i can’t tattoo OR draw a stick figure.) i do appreciate what others are able to do that i’m thoroughly incapable of… basically, i’m a star gazer that hangs on other people’s coattails and i live vicariously though the true artists. <kiss ~tanya
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close relationship with my friend,
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Way to go, don’t let anyone get away with CENSORSHIP, nor off site contacts.
Response:
I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine.
Your post is too long for me to reply to in its entirety so I’ll pick a few sentences. I know your friend and I am in touch with him. It is my opinion that the ASAPM moderators made an error by banning him. That’s no secret: I told him, I told them and I suggested a different solution which would nave kept him aboard. The moderators decided otherwise and as much as I disagree with their decision I could understand their reasons. Things are rarely black or white in this world. Sometimes one wishes they were, it would be a lot easier. I hoped Bob would come and post here which he did most sparingly and then he disappeared again. I also recommended a *yahoogroup* to him where he would meet very friendly and supportive people but, maybe because of lack of trust ?), he did join but didn’t participate. Maybe he will. There is more than one place on the Internet where one can get support for panic/anxiety and make friends as well. This doesn’t mean that his problems at ASAPM weren’t traumatic, I know they were and I regret it. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments.
You are quite right that it was idiotic to take 12 days to reach a decision. However, it happened and it can’t be undone. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends.
This is just an assumption. How do you know what the moderators expected? I surely don’t. But all that is water under the bridge now. On the upside the friends Bob made at ASAPM (such as Vashti and Mike who both post here as well) are stil in touch with him as far as I know. Anyway, you are much to be commended for standing up for a friend, you are a good person of great integrity and I have grown quite fond of you. I will tell you something that I don’t say to people every day. Because of my background I tend to divide people into two groups: those that would hide me from Da Germans if it were WWII and those who wouldn’t. (I can’t help myself and it’s not a big deal for me because I’ll quite happily socialize and enteretain valuable and profound friendships with people I wouldn’t trust when push would come to shove.) The group of people one feels one can trust with one’s life is infintely smaller than the other one but I have you chalked down for the small group (on the basis of my never failing female intuition of course . I hope Bob will come and post here again. I truly hope he will, maybe you can help him here? I will try too. Bob is a very nice and sensitive man and the ASAPM rejection was traumatic for him. Philip . n. I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – give you this information to be forthcoming, and that is my ONLY agenda for this exposure. I am NOT the most demure or settling poster, I speak my mind, and am not only dealt with honestly via fellow-posters, I’m no slouch in the ‘go fuck yourself’ department. I understand this group is a tad different. I have nothing but respect for whatever forum anyone feels comfortable in. I’m merely sharing my perspective, as it should most definitely be considered when and if (BIG "if") in the interest of fairness, my position regarding this highly uncomfortable issue makes it’s way to your ‘judgmental table.’ I feel quite sure this e-mail, if posted, would never slip past the ‘powers that be,’ the subjective determining committee of that which is ‘worthy,’ <yawn … so I went straight to the source. That being said, please, allow me my say: Even though new to this forum, my friend participated vocally. From what I have seen, (as I DID go into your forum to read posts, as well as my friend’s personal emails from these participatory posters) as appropriately as anyone else, maybe more appropriately than some. He used no abusive language, stayed within the guidelines (GOD, that hurts my soul to think people at our age need guidelines, but even so…) and I personally saw no reason for banning. UNTILLLLLLLLL….. Ms. Jackie decided she was up against a wall and quite sick of "euphoria" as were many, I’m sure. She came to the fork in the road and took it. Unfortunately, her tines dictated some quite magnanimous claims against my friend which were followed by a ‘chick movement’ of major proportions. If this is not evident to you moderators, I can only conclude, that it IS true; some women are much more intuitive and intelligent than men, most men should stick to what men do best and that’s concentrate on the good woman/women behind them and leave the rest to nature. It’s only evident if you prove it. For all intents and purposes, in my mind, you did a swell job. The nature of Ms. Jackie’s impacting post was one of frustration, obviously, her dictation for my friend to NEVER email her again as she was uncomfortable with his ‘harassment’ of her (my surmise) was indicative of ’stalking’ and possible ’sexual harassment’ accusations, some pretty hefty implications (I use that term loosely for the sake of argument. Her claims leaned further to the side of blatancy.) Furthermore, an attempt to gain support to relieve her frustration of that which she could not overcome landed smack-dab into a totally off-subject arena, (a simple definition of ‘euphoria,’) victimizing my friend and to top it off, without any proof whatsoever, just her ‘word.’ I suppose when there is no caving by others in Ms. Jackie’s world, the logical step would be to take the focus off her lack of success in the ‘ass kissing’ ballpark which she obviously thrives and take prisoners that are offered no defense, no investigation, no ‘jury’ or ‘moot court’ for myfriend to state his case. I’m sure OJ would have dumped his ‘dream team’ for a roll in the litigious hay with you guys in a New York second. I KNOW, inherently, this post had nothing to do with ‘euphoria,’ it had everything to do with nothing spoken. "I" know women. *I* know women that seem to be losing a battle with men only to passive-aggressively employ other men to fulfill their need to be ‘rescued.’ …and the trap takes FOUR ! ::shakin’ head:: Now ask yourselves … how DID this e-mail exchange come into existence? I know of no way but to give out your e-mail address and participate. It take TWO, count’em TWO to participate in an e-mail relationship, or ANY relationship for that matter. Phone conversations between these two and many others ensued, I ASSUME due to them giving out their phone number, willingly. Passive-aggression is not only a poor form of communication, as it leaves room for fill-in-the-blanks, it was unfortunately BOUGHT (for an outrageous price to my friend) hook, line and sinker by the ’so-called’ moderators. With moderation comes responsibility, especially in this forum. When convening with your cohesive group, did you ever consider the following: 1) The claims that were lodged were participatory inasmuch the lodger HAD to participate in order to have an avenue to make this claim? How ELSE could they be lodged? The obvious conclusion beyond a shadow of a doubt is as follows: Ms. Jackie drove her car down the e-mail avenue along with a few others right alongside my friend. *** Her own posts were just as, if not more so, personalized than my friend’s. THAT wouldn’t serve her agenda to present her own part in this unnecessary fiasco created by a scorned woman, now would it? *** 2) The claims COULD be unjust. 3) Such preposterous and damaging claims should NEVER be taken at face value without investigation if ‘banning’ in an anxiety forum, for chrissake, is the ultimate ‘punishment’ of choice. 4) The fervent ‘chick clique’ was quite obvious. this method is age-old. It is a means many (not all) women USE to ban together to perform ‘male-bashing’ techniques in order to buy acceptance by one another as generally women do NOT see an opportunity to be in a female clan. Most, I would say, ban together by a commonality as opposed to personal integrity. SOME GIRLS JUST DON’T LIKE GIRLS! Face it! Some find one another intimidating. How convenient to use my friend, as he was a participant in a female venue, to create this "hehe, I gotcha now cuz I gots back-up" claim. sick, sick shit, IMHO! (Even sicker that you guys can’t/didn’t/don’t/won’t, I’m sure …see it) ***Let’s pretend it’s YOUR wife in this position while convening privately with male ‘participants’ and was thrown up for display on the proverbial carpet by these poor entrapped and abused men in a public forum (which this is, like it or not, I proved it just now. I’m not a member and *I* saw it all) … and she got kicked right’n left on that carpet, and females were the moderators of the carpet. She is cast out for public display as a ‘pervert, stalker, inappropriate bitch’ that MADE them uncomfortable, even though they participated. Would you think maybe these males that chose this female moderator driven board to rescue him had an agenda to employ the "boo hoo" sanctity that decides based on… (well, you guys just ask yourselves that and figure out the rest.
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Response:
there are good reasons for both groups. I post on both but I bet you wouldn’t know who I was there The number of people who think real support is here is actually deluding themselves. To get past anxiety buzzwords won’t cut it. People have to get together and deal with reality. The worse thing is for people saying wonderful without knowing anyones problems. This isn’ going to help anyone. They all get to gether to condem me cause ooooh. I actually have something to panic about ( and have been very accurate in both stock picks and global warming) . The funny part is when the same people here think this is what support is about. There are more people on my block then post here on this group. I heard over and over the ueselessness of getting people to vote out judges who voted for payraise. People and newsmedia didn’t take us seriously. For the first time in history one judge was not retained in Pa. We had hundreds of people who got together to make a difference. Not four people on usenet pretending they know whats going on with subtle reminders of support while criticizing others who really panic. so both groups and all avenues should be explored. as someone once said on a different group It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for what you are not." Andre Gide I remember Elliott or Gary posted a link to a signature about people posting and everyone said it was great. he didn’t mention it was copied I know Elliott like a book…. he unfortunately is a sorriful soul in my book. I hope he stays where he is cause the guy is dangerous.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this
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there are good reasons for both groups.
i agree. in a moderated forum, don’t you think it may be a good idea to moderate WITHIN the guidlines since these guidelines as generally used for a poster to make an informed decision as to whether he/she wants to post there. when personal laundry is used to dictate moderation, i’m thinkin’ that falls WAY out’ah the guidlelines and should be noted so. to join a group under false pretenses is unfair and a rule-breaker of major proportions. I post on both but I bet you wouldn’t know who I was there
…which has WHAT ta do with shinola? The number of people who think real support is here is actually deluding themselves.
and the people that post here KNOW that, don’t they. the decision to post is based on information that is true. there’s not trick door, no trap, no hidden agenda. BAM? … yeah, BAM ! (i thunk about that’n.) To get past anxiety buzzwords won’t cut it. that’s your opinion. you ain’t gotta come here.. start yer own group. BUT DO IT WITH ETHICS AND INTEGRITY AND EXPOSE YOUR AGENDA WITH VIGOR, AND BACKBONE AND LIVE UP TO IT ! how’s that? pretty decent? (i thunk so. < People have to get together and deal with reality. steve? did you ever think that we ARE dealing with reality? does the possibility elude you that you’re poster boy for living in a dreamworld? (just’ah thought.) < The worse thing is for people saying wonderful without knowing anyones problems. This isn’ going to help anyone. if you don’t like the forum, if you’re not feeling supported, if you’re not getting what you want from it, GET THA FUCK OUT, SHUT THA FUCK UP OR SIT THA FUCK DOWN ! you at least know what’s wrapped in this package called ASAP… there ARE no surprises. you’re well informed of the boundairies or lack thereof, the posting style of each individual (unless new), the comradery, the friendships, the FRIENDSHIPS, yeah… to ME, that’s support, so i’m perfectly comfy.. you seem NOT to be. WHY STAY? don’t you appreciate the opportunity to choose with openness and truth? (i thunk so.) you know tha score. the rest is just yer whinin’ bitchin’n moanin. if ya don’t like tha kitchen, get out’ah tha heat ! AT LEAST IT’S HONEST that transparent nuff? (i thunk so) They all get to gether to condem me cause ooooh. I actually have something to panic about ( and have been very accurate in both stock picks and global warming) .
correct. we say what we want. nobody filters us. and mere logistics AND REALITY BASED THINKING dictates FOR us that your ad nauseum complaining about the uncontrollable is NOT fixable. if it is, GO FUCKIN’ FIX IT ALREADY ! that’s kinda like complainin’ about tha salt in tha ocean. ya think if ya panic about it long enuff it’ll become freshwater? NO, Steve.. some things simply are. i have seen MANY suggest (me included) that you put these events that nature (who is MUCH bigger than we are) in another box and maybe deal with reality and the things you AE able to alter within yourself. you cannot change the world by complaining, some things are obviously not meant to be changed. i have seen MANY encourage you to step into a reality based though process and stop the madness. you’re complaining about things that are not going to change on this forum or possibly anywere else. god HELP if a meteor starts headin’ to our planet, you’re gonna insist Gary’n Elliott jump in front of it’n somehow stop it. you oughta thank yer lucky stars these people are being real with you, at least employing reality as they know it, i know it, etc. DEAL WITH YOU, THEN take on the government, global waning, and air quality (and BIRD FLU, TWEET GODDAM TWEET !) wanna thank me? (i thunk so.) am i making sense yet, Steve? or are ya gonna find a way to make me wrong. i mean i’d hate to take away your comfort zone by noting how outlandish your forum is. so go on ahead say i’m wrong. and if you’re so right, SHOW ME THE SOLUTION ! i swear… i’ll speak for the whole group.. YOU FIND THE SOLUTION TO THE WORLDS PROBLEM, WE’LL EACH AND EVERYONE SHOW UP AT OUR OWN EXPENSE AND EMPLOY YOUR TACTICS ! now… does it get much better’n that? feel bett’ah now? (i thunk so) The funny part is when the same people here think this is what support is about.
so congratulate them, they’ve found their own place in the sun. the door’s right there ——- …. you can step out it anytime YOU choose.. we will NOT choose for you based on lied and deceit. clear nuff? (i thunk so) There are more people on my block then post here on this group.
does that make iraq any less a country? (is iraq a country, btw?) I heard over and over the ueselessness of getting people to vote out judges who voted for payraise. People and newsmedia didn’t take us seriously. For the first time in history one judge was not retained in Pa. We had hundreds of people who got together to make a difference.
SO? i don’t give a good goddam about PA judges. i don’t give a good goddam about your world of oblivion of reality as possibilities. do what YOU gotta do. we don’t ALL share your need to vote for PA judges, we don’t care to stop bird flu, conspiracy theories and the government respect what we do. fair? (i thunk so) Not four people on usenet pretending they know whats going on with subtle reminders of support while criticizing others who really panic.
hey ! i really panic over finances… and i don’t see YOU down here supporting my shop and getting tattooed or pierced. and guess what. HUNDREDS in my own town do so, and not FOUR on the usenet showed up with BLATANT reminders that BELLE NEEDS MONEY !!!!!!! so until you support MY panic, don’t expect me ta support yours. and you’re still not bein’ "banned" based on a hidden agenda here ! see my point? (i thunk so.) so both groups and all avenues should be explored.
i said that already. and with valid information. when moderating flows over into personal lives, it should be noted in the charter. otherwise, there is NO informed decision possible. when the rules are not employed, when reckless behavior and life-damaging tactics are employed, fine… JUST SAY IT ! SAY IT LOUD’N SAY IT PROUD’N THA CHARTER ! agreed? (i thunk so.) as someone once said on a different group It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for what you are not."
how bout "being hated or loved is of no consequence, period. personal integrity, living up to your own standards as opposed to others is the true measure of a life well lived." ~tanya tha magnificent (correct? i thunk so.) Andre Gide I remember Elliott or Gary posted a link to a signature about people posting and everyone said it was great. he didn’t mention it was copied I know Elliott like a book…. he unfortunately is a sorriful soul in my book. I hope he stays where he is cause the guy is dangerous.
because ya choose ta dislike Elliott and have judgment about him does NOT dictate yer participation here, you’re as welcome as anyone.. nobody dictates your participation here, nor does it influence my opinion of Elliott. (i do believe yer safe tho, as i don’t predict Elliott is planning yer fate OR a trip ta yer house as we speak.) now what he does in his OWN time… in that barracaded biker clubhouse armed to tha hilt while donnin’ fatigues and pics of you with darts in em surroundin’ him’n his volumes upon volumes of the MCS CONSPIRACY THEORY and’ah calendar "x"d out daily, (and D-day noted as well, and it’s comin’ quick… DUCK !) is his bidness.
Response:
I’d like to share something of great importance, the consequences that came to light when a most unfortunate incident occurred recently involving a friend of mine. (You might want to skip down to my first and subsequent email to the ASAPM moderators located at the end of this intro if this topic interests you in the least.) Information overload? possibly… again, YOU decide. I really don’t care. If you care to indulge this experience, fine. If not? Fine. I recently e-mailed a message to the ASAPM moderators expressing my outrage and indignation regarding an injustice that was systematically inflicted on this person who had come to rely on them to fulfill their self-appointed duty, to exercise fairly, equally and consistently their role as moderators. This is the ultimate intention and responsibility which THEY THEMSELVES had sought after, established for the express purpose of exercising their own authority and duty to fulfill the role of"moderator" as it is commonly and expressly defined. In this it’s my opinion that they failed miserably to properly do so as they sat in judgment and proceeded to try, convict and condemn this friend of mine in an exercise of judgment, which IMO was far more than a mockery of fairness (not to be confused with justice, as they claim that their criteria in such cases is not about justice). This was also a blatant demonstration of bias, prejudgment and worse… outrageously unequal representation. They made, also, an absolute farce out of their own self-righteous agenda, especially their own, originally conceived and established, both public and open to question, comment or complaint, official Moderated Newsgroup Charter and separate List of Moderator Guidelines. This all resulted eventually, after 12 days of deliberation during which the accused worked diligently for many hours, availing himself as best he could of the pathetically inadequate "rules of defense" bestowed on him by the moderators. They initially instructed him that they would give him 48 hours to respond before calling for a vote without his comments. I`m quite certain that no one was prepared for the immediate response sent from the "accused" expressing his genuine sorrow and apologies to all concerned along with his plain-spoken, passionate desire and sincere hopefulness that he would not ultimately be banned from the group and all his friends. He conveyed his sincere gratitude for the meager 48 hour window of opportunity to comply with their "edict" to respond by their deadline. At the same time, he thanked them for the necessary time and opportunity to discuss the matter with his therapist and his doctor. He was fortunate enough to have had appointments with both the next day. This still left him very little time to adequately prepare and submit his defense, or "point by point explanations" (as he prefers to call it). Neither, I`m sure, could they have anticipated the resulting demonstrations of obligation, dedication, determination, diligence, courage, thoughtfulness and thoroughness, commitment to excellence, honesty, credibility, and most of all inherently and characteristically devout compliance to the rules of good ethical and moral behavior. Their final decision took not 48 hours, but 12 days. There was random additional correspondence during the 12 days of deliberation, including requests from the "judges" for additional "evidence". My friend complied when he consistently gave them actually more than they had asked for, as he waited for a decision…. …finally ending in a vote which is rumored to have ended in one abstention, one vote "for", and a two-vote majority "against". My friend was soon informed by the Moderation Team that he was ultimately "banned for life" from the group. This included all it had come to stand for and mean to him, all his friends and well-known acquaintances plus the abundance of other benefits he had been grossly lacking and seeking all his life and come to rely on. This forum had become his "home", one he shared in a trusted environment with people he interacted with on and off forum, a peaceful, nonjudgmental, unconditionally accepting environment. He gave back as much as was given by these people. He performed tasks for members on the board, leaving at a moment’s notice to spend time with a suicidal member, (not once, but twice, was the case with one certain member) which assumes blatant permission and welcoming of my friend in her time of need. For almost two years he embraced others, with vigor, their needs as well as wants. Unlike Y2K, he WAS in compliance. He gave back, even in his darkest hours. The warm welcome and friendly embrace of a lost, lonely stranger, the mutual understanding, the comradery and commonality, advice and guidance, a good and often unexpected thought or even laugh, courtesy of a fellow member, the humorous stories and even a good joke now and then, the exquisite and often unique off-topic, mood-lightening posts. He offered tips and advice on how to deal with things from panic and anxiety to other mood disorders, such as SAD, PTSD etc., the very generous and always reliable advice everyone near and dear to him, as near and dear as he was to them as well as strangers and acquaintences. most importantly, the occasional, often urgent requests for sympathy and support, especially during times of crisis especially when he, just as they often did, needed it most. ***Note: Some of you may say "DAMN, IT’S ONLY A NEWSGROUP", and please consider the nature of the group, this is not "how to carve a pumpkin with Lynette Jennings". This is a group of sometimes very emotionally unstable people with agoraphobic lives. This is sometimes their only form of socializing creating an overwhelming dependence on this group as well as it’s leaders.*** Since his exile from the group, very worrisome behavior has ensued (potentially destructive, at least and life altering, at best) based solely on information that was not fully verified, merely taken at face value (which goes with the territory of a ‘dictatorship’). This group of moderators, who were seemingly "forced" (by the actions of one of the groups most senior and highly respected members) to take action and sit in judgment of another of the group’s members, failed completely to give this man an honest, fair and unbiased "hearing" and final determination of guilt or innocence. They simply said they could no longer allow him to participate in the group. They inflicted this unwarranted and undeserved punishment on my friend that depended highly on this forum (some do, I have discovered) and was banned without so much as a thought to the possible, perhaps potential repercussions of some mentally distressed individuals. I’m quite sure this is not isolated. I find it appalling. I feel it important to "out" the activities, the inadequacy and deficiencies of modern-day online support group self-governing or moderation, the resulting affect on any given individuals’ sense of well-being, self-worth, and possible self-destruction that can easily result from incompetent moderation without investigation and barely any opportunity for the "defendant" to defend, or at least have a say in the arena that I still maintain with every breath in my body was woefully biased to begin with. (Analogically speaking, it was, IMHO, sort-of like the "story" of Jesus having to defend himself from people whose actual "case" against him was only slightly more flimsy than the case these people had against my friend. I know this to be the case, btw, because my friend saved everything from the "trial", a virtual mountain of evidence, which he has shared much of with me, his confidante as well as friend). This person has no prior knowledge of my decision to share this information with this particular group. We discussed it, sure, but it was actually me who did most of the discussing. He was not in favor of it. He did participate in writing this introduction, as it was originally meant for submission to other interested Internet related factions and anyone else who feels a sense of shared responsibility for what goes on and what goes wrong on this, the well-shielded superhighway. I`ve since further edited it for the purpose of submitting to this particular support group. The following e-mail, addressed to the moderators of our closely related group, ASAPM, is all mine. My friend had no role or prior knowledge of my intent to share this voice of concern to the moderators. I want to share my deepest concerns, and to expose the possibilities and tragedy of choosing others to dictate the ‘look of the forum’ to fit their own agenda. I understand it is a voluntary decision to participate in this forum. The unforeseen actions of a select "four" could have in no way been determined until knee deep in their own irresponsible, ill-conceived and ultimately unfair decision making process, but toooooooo late to modify this decision as the damage done. It is insidious and occurs AFTER the resultant ‘punishment’ has been inflicted. To be blind sided by this despotic control is potentially life threatening, I have learned. I’m posting an amended version of the email I first posted to these moderators, hopefully to create acute awareness of their decision-making repercussions, and to possibly create an arena to update one’s decision to participate in a dictator’s forum. This is my own opinion as I have witnessed through my close relationship with my friend, lengthy discussions and knowledge of what dreams may come. This is the truth as I know it and have investigated thoroughly via reading the posted complaints, as well hearing his first hand descriptions of the many private e-mails concerning this matter. MUCH of the evidence in the form of prior e-mails, requested by the moderators along with any possible explanation from this man of even the slightest hint of impropriety was simply non accessible to my friend. He has … read more »
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I didn’t eat as much when I was feeling calm and steady all day long. Tony — The charter is available at: 