Trauma – PTSD

Question:

Has St.John’s wort worked for anyone with panic disorder.  How much do you take.  I’ve had anxiety/panic as far back into childhood and I can remember and I’m midlife.  Anti-depressants help, but I’ve only taken them a few years of my life, I just endure the horrible feelings.  Also, I was completely free of panic/anxiety during pregnancy.    I feel anxious and extremely nervous more then actual panic attacks. (although they do happen) I’ve taken St.John’s wort since January 1, 300 mg, 3 times a day and I don’t think it does any good.  Any thots.

Response:

<snipped for space bring on some heavy panic/anxiety. The issue of being addicted to benzos like Klonipin does not outweigh it’s benefits. Besides, as a detocx counsellor, addiction ALSO includes a craving for MORE of a particular drug over time, and many benzo users DON"T have this. They just need their dose, and thats it. I have been on Klonipin for years, and it has made a MAJOR difference in my life, without any kind of addiction issue. (No dose increase PERIOD!) Talk to your doctor, and use the net to get some great research.

It’s interesting (and valuable) to hear this coming from someone who works in the detox field. A great deal of the opposition to benzos comes from people who think they have an understanding of addiction, so getting a professional input is helpful to counteract the ill-informed views of scaremongers — Gary Cooper

Response:

I think I’ve mentioned before that the word "addiction" is a pet peeve of mine. The reason is that it’s used in so many different ways that it could mean any of a number of things to the people saying (and hearing/reading) it.  The "official" psychiatric term is "substance dependence," and is defined by at least three of: 1) tolerance 2) withdrawal upon trying to stop or reduce dosage 3) taking more than you’d intended or taking it for a longer period of time than you’d intended 4) desire to quit or cut down 5) spending a lot of time getting the substance (e.g., visiting multiple doctors and pharmacies), use it, or recover from its effects 6) giving up or reducing participation in important activities because of substance use 7) continuing to use the substance despite knowing that it causes or exacerbates a physical or psychological problem. "Substance abuse" is defined by at least one of: 1) recurrent substance use that causes you not to fulfill major obligations 2) recurrent substance use in situations in which it’s physically hazardous (e.g., driving) 3) recurrent legal problems related to substance use 4) continued substance use despite social or interpersonal problems that are caused or exacerbated by it I definitely think that the benefits of benzos (for most anxiety patients, anyway) far outweigh any risk of abuse or dependence.  I think the important things about benzos are: 1) _some_ people will experience a pleasurable "high" on some benzos, and these    people may be at risk for dependence. 2) this doesn’t mean everyone who takes benzos, or even everyone who takes them    on a long-term basis, will become dependent. -elizabeth

Response:

<snipped for space 1) _some_ people will experience a pleasurable "high" on some benzos, and these    people may be at risk for dependence. 2) this doesn’t mean everyone who takes benzos, or even everyone who takes them    on a long-term basis, will become dependent.

I think, broadly speaking, I agree with you, Elizabeth. I must admit that I have some considerable problems with elements of the medical profession who, for example, on the one hand will knowingly prescribe a patient beta blockers for long-term use, ignoring the fact that, beyond a point (AIUI) cessation is inadvisable, while, OTO, they will throw up their hands in horror at people who might use a benzodiazpene on a continuous basis – and give them out like Scrooge’s Christmas presents, as a consequence. I seriously do believe that we (that is ‘we’ as in society at large) make a serious mistake in believing that simply because doctors sometimes have to make life or death decisions, they are necessarily moral philosophers. Quite obviously, ISTM, they rarely are and the frequent confusion we see over the use of pain killers and anxiolytics owes, in my estimation, very little to science or ethics, and a great deal to having been brought-up in a culture which sees an elemental virtue in suffering. — Gary Cooper

Response:

Has St.John’s wort worked for anyone with panic disorder.

I can’t say that I’ve gotten relief for my symptoms – which are more "generalized anxiety disorder" than panic – from SJW.   But I take SJW for hormonally-caused, cyclical depression (I must take 20 mg. progestins 10 days a month) and it’s quite effective.  That’s a cyclical depression, I know, and not a severe one, so that’s about all I can comment on. I haven’t noticed any improvement in my anxiety disorder from the SJW.  I do take .75 mg. Xanax/day for that, and I believe it’s helping quite a bit. Terri

Response:

The difference between addiction and physical dependence is never clarified well enough. I know benzos cause withdrawal symptoms when you come off (in my case, mainly industrial strength anxiety, and am writing this on my third day coming off halcion), but don’t crave more. Want less so the feeling goes away!!! Most I think are worth the physical withdrawal, and if it’s to relieve this horrible feeling, don’t see why you wouldn’t or shouldn’t want the drug! Headache sufferers want tylenol (or whatever), people with heartburn sure crave Maalox. To worry about craving your anti-anxiety meds has a lot to do with the basic assumption that anxiety is not a disabling condition that is unbearable and deserves treatment.  Yeah, I crave relief. Not to get high. That’s another issue. I admit I enjoy occasional forays into various forms of intoxication for recreation or creative expansion, BUT that is a completely seperate issue from my not wanting to feel I am going to go nuts with nervousness or start feeling suicidally depressed. It’s like if a medication has a potentially pleasurable side effect, then it’s instantly suspect. Goes back to that American Puritanical Ethic that nothing should be fun, or it’s the devil’s work (Thou shall not dance, nor take xanax and enjoy it). I think it’s a perk that benzos make you feel good too sometimes, but I would take em even if they just relieved the panic part. Actually, the reason I like xanax is because it DOESN’T cause the same level of intoxication as valium or ativan did for me… Just brings me back to baseline calm, occasionally feel a little smiley (Heaven forbid). It’s too bad that so many useful drugs that have MILDLY psychoactive properties (I mean benzos, barbs, opiates, marijuana– not talking LSD here!) are so difficult to obtain because of the fun potential. A lot of sick people suffer because their cure makes them actually feel good. Oh, I could go on and on here. Strong feelings. But as I always say, If you don’t think you’re right, why have an opinion at all… Sakina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped for space bring on some heavy panic/anxiety. The issue of being addicted to benzos like Klonipin does not outweigh it’s benefits. Besides, as a detocx counsellor, addiction ALSO includes a craving for MORE of a particular drug over time, and many benzo users DON"T have this. They just need their dose, and thats it. I have been on Klonipin for years, and it has made a MAJOR difference in my life, without any kind of addiction issue. (No dose increase PERIOD!) Talk to your doctor, and use the net to get some great research. It’s interesting (and valuable) to hear this coming from someone who works in the detox field. A great deal of the opposition to benzos comes from people who think they have an understanding of addiction, so getting a professional input is helpful to counteract the ill-informed views of scaremongers — Gary Cooper

Response:

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