Question:
Hello! Have you ever read the book "the menopause" or by doctor John Lee. It contains a lot information about estrogen and why you should take progesterone.
Whoa, stop right there: This is a bogus book filled with a lot of personal theory and medical nonsense. There is no scientific corroboration for any of his findings, but a heck of a lot of expensive marketing appeal. Be very careful about sending internet yam-scam sales people any money for their wares. And really watch out for their "saliva test" offers costing several hundreds of dollars …..to determine why their products do not "work" as glowingly promised. There is an important website called "What your friends will not tell you about natural progeseterone" that is a must read if you have read orgotten hooked into his pseudo-science theories, and have wasted a lot of money. If it "works" for you, you are paying a lot for placebo. j
Response:
Internists do so little study of endocrino;ogy it’s scary–go to an endocrinologist who is BOARD CERTIFIED-Other point in reply well taken and good. Thyroid problems can excacerbate all kinds of other problems get it balanced and you will feel better. LM
Response:
This is my 2nd week on thyroid, I think it takes awhile to feel anything, doesn’t it? KS Thank you for the info. Hi KS: It takes 6 week’s for thyroid med.,to kick in.It also takes 6 week’s, when your doctor cut’s them down. Kit
Response:
This is my 2nd week on thyroid, I think it takes awhile to feel anything, doesn’t it? KS
Hi KS, I have been on Synthroid almost three years, and when I first went on it, it does take a while to feel better. And you should be weaning on the thyroid slowly, and going for blood tests every few weeks, until your thyroid levels are normal. Here is a great website on thyroid problems and thryoid medication. There is also ALT: support.thyroid, with some really great people over there. Take care and hope you feel better soon. http://thyroid.about.com/mbody.htm?COB=home&terms=thyroid Jackie
Response:
x-no-archive.yes This is my 2nd week on thyroid, I think it takes awhile to feel anything, doesn’t it? KS Thank you for the info. Hi KS: It takes 6 week’s for thyroid med.,to kick in.It also takes 6 week’s, when your doctor cut’s them down. Kit
Really? Must be a placebo effect then. Either that, or there is still some estrogen running around in my body (I stopped it 7 days ago- if I can feel this good on this little estrogen, I won’t have to worry about ever having to take a larger dose.) KS
Response:
x-no-archive.yes This is my 2nd week on thyroid, I think it takes awhile to feel anything, doesn’t it? KS Thank you for the info. Hi KS: It takes 6 week’s for thyroid med.,to kick in.It also takes 6 week’s, when your doctor cut’s them down. Kit
Really? Must be a placebo effect then. Either that, or there is still some estrogen running around in my body (I stopped it 7 days ago- if I can feel this good on this little estrogen, I won’t have to worry about ever having to take a larger dose.) KS Hi KS: Are you saying that you stopped your thyroid meds.? I think you have to be pretty careful with that. As for placebo effect of thyroid meds,no it takes 6 week’s! Placebo is a state of mind and thyroid is a state of glands.IMO My apoglogies if I misunderstood what you wrote. Kit
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dee- I would certainly research the thyroid question through all the links. Also, go to the newsgroup alt.support.thyroid for lots of information & support & more wise people. My 2 cents (I am not a doc) is to first find a doctor who will be sensitive to your queries about thyroid & be willing to work with you as far as how you are feeling in regards to the dosage you are taking. Perhaps even before you go the hormone rout, get your thyroid taken care of. Oftentimes a doctor will say that you are "within the normal levels" of thyroid & prescribe a lower dosage when actually a higher one (High-Normal level) will make you feel much better. From my understanding, osteoporosis is not an issue unless you are hyPER thyroid. I am fortunate to have a sympathetic doctor. I also take a combination of synthetic & natural thyroids, taking both of which has made an enormous difference in my overall physical & emotional health. Lots of info on this in the Mining Co. site as well as alt.support.thyroid. Find a doctor who will test & be able to read (& understand) more than just TSH — the t3, t4, & thyroid antibody tests are valid too, although many doctors do not believe in testing for them. Believe me, the different levels are important to consider. Another consideration is diet & exercise. VERY important when one is dealing with weight & depression issues. There is lots of information about this in the Mining Co. as well as other places. One can’t just take thyroid (& hormones, etc.) & expect to feel better on that alone, unfortunately. But once you have more energy, it is easier to deal with the other issues. I know this is a lot to consider here. Believe me, though, once you get your thyroid "under control" it IS a lot easier, eventhough life may continue to throw you challenges. Best of luck! Hi Lani, That is exactly what I told my Dr, that I had been reading that alot of Dr’s don’t do a thorough thyroid panel. She said she’d have to know the names of all the tests! Shouldn’t an Internist know???? Sheesh. She was afraid of giving me thyroid because I could end up getting too much, hence the bone issue. I think I’d rather have thining bones than cancer. I still fing it interesting that she tested me and found it low only after I had squawked about it. I’m still a little unsettled at how good I’ve felt mentally on the estradiol, like a whole new person, like I’ve been given a new lease on life, no depression, no irritability, etc., but the physical symptoms and risks are a worry. I don’t like starting 2 new medications at a time, because if one makes me feel good or bad, I won’t know what is doing what, so I’m giving the estradiol a rest til I can find out more, and see what this thryroid does. This is my 2nd week on thyroid, I think it takes awhile to feel anything, doesn’t it? KS Thank you for the info. KS
– Hello! Have you ever read the book "the menopause" or by doctor John Lee. It contains a lot information about estrogen and why you should take progesterone. I have been suffering from mild doses of arthritis and have been using progesterone to aid which is prooving sucessful. I hope this information is of use and i appologise if anyone takes offence from my posting. Best of Luck
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! Have you ever read the book "the menopause" or by doctor John Lee. It contains a lot information about estrogen and why you should take progesterone. I have been suffering from mild doses of arthritis and have been using progesterone to aid which is prooving sucessful. I hope this information is of use and i appologise if anyone takes offence from my posting. Best of Luck
No offence. Do you get the progesterone through your doctor or from the Channel Islands? I notice you are posting from the UK and, like Canada , progesterone is a prescription drug. I read somewhere that progesterone was once used as an anaesthesia and we know from product information that it is a sedative. Maybe that is how it works for you? I used to get aches and pains each month from PMS and found that aspirin helped a lot. I found daily exercise really helped these types of "mild arthritic" pains too. Dr. Lee in his book ( at least the menopause book) mentions exercise as being very important, right? Kathryn
Response:
Dee, As I understand it, you are a 46 year old female with a long history of depression and panic disorder, and possibly OCD. You did not state whether you currently take any psych meds for these conditions. Apparently your MD feels you are going through the menopause and has prescribed estradiol vaginal cream for menopausal problems in the vaginal area. These creams can be absorbed through mucosal surfaces (such as the vaginal lining) and therefore can have systemic effects, which you have already described (i.e. breast tenderness, headaches, and change in mood). A very simple test to measure whether your female hormones (estrogen and progesterone) are low secondary to going through the menopause, is to measure serum FSH and LH levels, both of which will be elevated above normal if you are menopausal. You said your doctor wanted to give you Menest in pill form, and this is an estrogen only. It is very important when going on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for the menopause to take a progesterone in addition to an estrogen so you do not develope endometrial hyperplasia, and one of it’s complications, endometrial cancer (of the uterus) A simple test to measure thyroid function is the TSH, a blood test. If it’s high, you’re likely hypothyroid, and if it’s low, you may be hyperthyroid. Sometimes a T4 must also be done to help clarify interpretation of TSH results. If your are hypothyroid, treatment consists of thyroid supplementation, such as with Synthroid pills daily, and the dose is adjusted by doing serial TSH levels. I do not know f you are taking an antidepressant, but sometimes either thyroid hormone or lithium (as well as several other meds) can be added to the antidepressant med in order to "augment" it’s antidepressant effects. While people wih low thyroid level are especially likely to benefit from thyroid supplementation, even people with normal thyroid function and normal thyroid levels may experience an antidepressant effect when their antidepressant med is augmented with thyroid hormone. Good luck! Chip
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dee- I would certainly research the thyroid question through all the links. Also, go to the newsgroup alt.support.thyroid for lots of information & support & more wise people. My 2 cents (I am not a doc) is to first find a doctor who will be sensitive to your queries about thyroid & be willing to work with you as far as how you are feeling in regards to the dosage you are taking. Perhaps even before you go the hormone rout, get your thyroid taken care of. Oftentimes a doctor will say that you are "within the normal levels" of thyroid & prescribe a lower dosage when actually a higher one (High-Normal level) will make you feel much better. From my understanding, osteoporosis is not an issue unless you are hyPER thyroid. I am fortunate to have a sympathetic doctor. I also take a combination of synthetic & natural thyroids, taking both of which has made an enormous difference in my overall physical & emotional health. Lots of info on this in the Mining Co. site as well as alt.support.thyroid. Find a doctor who will test & be able to read (& understand) more than just TSH — the t3, t4, & thyroid antibody tests are valid too, although many doctors do not believe in testing for them. Believe me, the different levels are important to consider. Another consideration is diet & exercise. VERY important when one is dealing with weight & depression issues. There is lots of information about this in the Mining Co. as well as other places. One can’t just take thyroid (& hormones, etc.) & expect to feel better on that alone, unfortunately. But once you have more energy, it is easier to deal with the other issues. I know this is a lot to consider here. Believe me, though, once you get your thyroid "under control" it IS a lot easier, eventhough life may continue to throw you challenges. Best of luck!
Hi Lani, That is exactly what I told my Dr, that I had been reading that alot of Dr’s don’t do a thorough thyroid panel. She said she’d have to know the names of all the tests! Shouldn’t an Internist know???? Sheesh. She was afraid of giving me thyroid because I could end up getting too much, hence the bone issue. I think I’d rather have thining bones than cancer. I still fing it interesting that she tested me and found it low only after I had squawked about it. I’m still a little unsettled at how good I’ve felt mentally on the estradiol, like a whole new person, like I’ve been given a new lease on life, no depression, no irritability, etc., but the physical symptoms and risks are a worry. I don’t like starting 2 new medications at a time, because if one makes me feel good or bad, I won’t know what is doing what, so I’m giving the estradiol a rest til I can find out more, and see what this thryroid does. This is my 2nd week on thyroid, I think it takes awhile to feel anything, doesn’t it? KS Thank you for the info. KS
Response:
Dee- I would certainly research the thyroid question through all the links. Also, go to the newsgroup alt.support.thyroid for lots of information & support & more wise people. My 2 cents (I am not a doc) is to first find a doctor who will be sensitive to your queries about thyroid & be willing to work with you as far as how you are feeling in regards to the dosage you are taking. Perhaps even before you go the hormone rout, get your thyroid taken care of. Oftentimes a doctor will say that you are "within the normal levels" of thyroid & prescribe a lower dosage when actually a higher one (High-Normal level) will make you feel much better. From my understanding, osteoporosis is not an issue unless you are hyPER thyroid. I am fortunate to have a sympathetic doctor. I also take a combination of synthetic & natural thyroids, taking both of which has made an enormous difference in my overall physical & emotional health. Lots of info on this in the Mining Co. site as well as alt.support.thyroid. Find a doctor who will test & be able to read (& understand) more than just TSH — the t3, t4, & thyroid antibody tests are valid too, although many doctors do not believe in testing for them. Believe me, the different levels are important to consider. Another consideration is diet & exercise. VERY important when one is dealing with weight & depression issues. There is lots of information about this in the Mining Co. as well as other places. One can’t just take thyroid (& hormones, etc.) & expect to feel better on that alone, unfortunately. But once you have more energy, it is easier to deal with the other issues. I know this is a lot to consider here. Believe me, though, once you get your thyroid "under control" it IS a lot easier, eventhough life may continue to throw you challenges. Best of luck!
Response:
Hi all, I am a veteran of chronic depression and anxiety/panic disorder. I’m a 46 yr old female. I need some feedback. This is being posted to 3 groups since it involves aspects depression and menopause, so please just reply to your own group to avoid crossposting. If this has been dsicussed recently, forgive me, but has anyone heard that alot of psychiatrists are finding that thyroid helps depression? My cousin who is severely depressed, started taking it, his Psychiatrist gave it to him without even giving him a blood panel. It’s made a big difference, I could even tell his tone was different on the phone. Coincidentally, a friend of mine told me she is reading a book by a Dr. Gould (?) or Gold, a psychiatrist, who is giving it to his patients even if they don’t need it. I’ve always been given a Thyroid re-uptake and thyroid-stimulating Hormone test- (TSH), but there are two other tests I’ve never been given and one involves taking blood for every half-hour for about 2 hours, and another has something to do with thyroid releasing hormone (different than TSH). My Mom told me when she was young, she was told that she always have to have thyroid for the rest of her life. In the 70’s, when the tests became more advanced, they said it wasn’t true and they took it away from her. Since then, her weight has skyrocketed, and she became depressed. I remembered that I was given thyroid from 6th grade to 7th grade, because I had had my first period, but no more. They gave it to me to start my period going again. When I look back on it, that was one of the few years I had no trouble going to school (depression was under control). When they took it away from me after my period started, I had to go on valium to get to school. I wrote a letter to my internist and told her all of this and asked her to prescribe thyroid for both mom and I for depression- even if we don’t need it, we are both willing to take the small chance that our thyroid glands will shrink. I’m really convinced. Anyway, mom went in to see the Dr. and she asked mom to take a big blood panel, with a bunch of tests she hadn’t had before. Anyway, it came back that her thyroid was below normal. She’s been on thyroid now for about 2 weeks and is feeling MUCH better. I think it’s interesting that all of a sudden it’s low (after I squawk about it) when she could have been feeling better all along. (My mother has never been able to tolerate estrogen in any form.) Both my mom and I suffer from depression and panic attacks- so we are hypervigilant and notice even small changes in our bodies- so even if the thyroid was even slightly low, we feel like we are dragging. So anyway, I went to the Dr and I just got chewed out by her. She said anyone can write a book, and thyroid isn’t the answer to everything. She wanted to give me estrogen for depression – a vaginal cream, and a pill. Because I’m getting "to the age…" blah blah. She wants to start me off low because I’m afraid of it (cancer) and I’m still having periods. Had I known she was going to give me estrogen, I would’ve asked for an hour consultation; I just have too many questions about risks to be given it and then have her go on to the next patient. I decided to just take the vaginal cream. I was so upset and scared, I just fell into bed, exhausted. Well, I woke up the next morning and my mood was markedly better- that was Wednesday, and I’ve been MUCH less depressed, and I don’t feel irritable. So I guess she has something there, but I also got nauseated, headache and some crampiness. So I myself cut that dose in half, and I seem to feel good without the side effects. I hope it’s ok to take (cancer-wise) because it’s such a small dose, and then I cut it in half. The other side of the story: I told her I had something wrong with me, it was a gut feeling- you know what your body is telling you, right? She didn’t believe me; it wasn’t scientific, so she gave me a blood test. Turned out I was right, she called the next day-my thyroid is low. (Again, interesting, since I have been given these tests every year.) I’m still agitated at having to argue with Dr’s to get anything done. I’m not against testing; it’s the closed-mindedness of some Dr’s and the fact that she was willing to freely give out estrogen that can cause cancer, but is leery of giving thyroid which can thin my bones. It’s my life, right? If I have a choice, I’d rather take thinning bones. I’ve had 5 friends and acquaintances get breast cancer over the past year and a half; only 2 are still alive and it doesn’t look good for one. It also bugs me that we, as patients have to do our own digging to find out what we may need, and then suggest it, and then get a lecture. The Dr’s don’t like us resorting to the net or other friends, but if they would just do what they’re supposed to do (half of being a Dr is being a detective) we wouldn’t resort to such things. Also, medicine is an art as well as a science; and they are "practicing", as they put it- think about it. Well, I’ll stop ranting now! Anyway, I hope between the two I can feel much better, ( I am taking just one new drug at a time, so that if there’s a reaction, I know what it is:-) Can anyone answer these questions (since I was rushed by my Dr.) 1) She told me that the vaginal cream (Estradiol) would NOT help my mood, just vaginal dryness, and that I would have to take an estrogen pill for mood. Well, why is my mood so much better? (I haven’t started the estrogen pill yet.) It’s helped immensely with depresion, irritability and even OCD. Are they saying that this estrogen cannot any way, no how, be absorbed into the system? Then why are my breasts hurting? Why the nausea & headache? I had to cut down to 1/8 grm of estradiol. 2) The pkg insert is ALL about cancer. Does the cream have the same risks as an estrogen pill? (She wants to give me Menest by mouth.) 3) As soon as one stops taking estrogen, does the risk go back down? the pkg said there was a conflict in test results. (I am 46, never been pregnant, had early menarche and have fibrocystic disease.) 3) Has anyone gained or lost weight on the creams? 4) I have had night sweats since my 20’s- could my estrogen balance been off all this time? Thanks for reading this looonnggg email:-) "Dee"
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